A different persepctive on the Twolves
by Just A Fan on Mar 28, 2011 10:10 AM CDT
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PrintIt was my best night at a Twolves game in years. Not because of the game itself – the 1st half was dismal; the 2nd half exciting but with an all too predictable ending. What made my day was the opportunity to chat basketball in a small group with a couple of “non Twolves” NBA staff before and after the game. It was really fun to hear a different perspective on the NBA in general and the Twolves in particular. These guys are focused on current NBA players, so there was little talk about Europeans or college players.
So, here goes. So just to be clear these are not my thoughts, but a report on other’s thoughts taken from the conversation.
KLove has rocketed up the charts and is considered in or near the top 25 of most team’s player value list. Everyone liked the rebounding (considered elite even early on) and the effort. But most felt his offense was going to be limited to put backs and garbage buckets. Maybe a singular post move. No one expected his ability to shoot the 3 as effectively as he has done this year. With that, his value has literally tripled. If KLove can shoot the 3 as well next season (teams are always hesitant about a “fluke rule” season), KLove will be a perennial all star. Still not capable of being an A1 option in today’s NBA (rules favor slashing wings who can also shoot a bit), but certainly an A2 player.
Unfortunately, that is the highlight of the conversation. Comments on the other starters:
Beasley – improving and still with quite a bit of potential. Plays a little softer than what they would like to see at his size. Not sure about his motor – there are times where he seems to take multiple plays off. Really believe that he would be better off in a different style of play – something more free lanced and less structured than what the Twolves run. I specifically asked if they thought Beasley could be an A1. The consensus – no. Just don’t think he has the killer instinct to be an A1. A solid player who still has lots of potential, maybe with an A2 ceiling. Just don’t see the potential to be an A1. (Probably the comment that made me the saddest all night)
Darko – They really don’t get the Twolves infatuation with Darko. They feel he is really over paid and nothing more than a mediocre post. Has some good skills, but they really don’t like his motor. Really question the wisdom of running the set offense through Darko – while he can pass, he does not have the play making ability to warrant so many touches.
(Editorial comment – there was a lot of talk about player’s “motors”. It seems to be NBA speak for the ability and determination to give 100% every second you are on the court. At least in this group, “motor” seemed to be equal to, if not more, important, than any other skill. So it was quite damning to have a couple of Twolves starters having questionable motors.)
Ridnour – a very solid, back up point guard who is miscast as starter in the Twolves offense. Excellent shooter, good IQ, plays hard. Just not the athlete you need at the PG position in today’s NBA. Said lots of teams would find a way to play him 20 minutes a game.
Johnson – Not nearly as down on Wes as we are here at CH sometimes. They love his stroke and feel he is athletic enough. Really impressed with the intensity he has shown against Kobe – 1 guy said that Wes played the best defense he has seen on Kobe all year. Then the next night, Wes shows no intensity. Will he mature as a professional and bring that Kobe intensity every night? Is the intensity swings just a rookie thing or something deeper? That, more than anything else, will be the big question next year. The only skill they see Wes lacks is the handle that he will need to be more than a spot up shooter.
A few brief comments on the bench.
Flynn – consensus is that Flynn needs a new home, and fast, if he is to stick in the NBA. Still think he could be an energy type back up PG. But out of all the players, he seems to fit the worse (much worse than Beasley) in the current system. Confirmed that he was offered around at trade deadline.
Pek – think that with time (and patience), Pek will be a serviceable back up big man.
Randolph – They were very opinionated about AR – not in a good way. One guy referred to AR as a tall version of Gerald Green!! Supremely athletic, good skills, basketball IQ way below average and not someone who makes other players or his team any better. Said he plays like “a fart in a wind storm”. Not sure what colored that opinion – out of the entire conversation – these comments stood out as being less objective and more personal.
I asked a question – who would be the ideal draft pick for the Twolves this year? It was unanimous – Kyle Irving. Speedy, athletic PG who sees the floor very well. Not a ball dominant point guard – would share the ball making Love, Wes and Beasley more effective scorers. Plus they believe he will become an excellent 3 pt shooter. It would move Ridnour to the 2nd unit making that group much more productive (they are very high on Ridnour – said he would be the best 2nd unit PG in the NBA). I asked a loaded question – how much better would Irving make us? They thought 12-15 wins more!! I was shocked – I think Irving is pretty talented but not all that special. They seem to think he would be the ideal fit to make many of the existing pieces immediately more effective. (Sorry – did not have the opportunity to explore the “what about Rubio” part of this equation)
There was obvious talk about our coach and FO. Like TimAllen did in his Solan conference report, I will write that up as a separate post later in the week.
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Awesome report
Thanks a ton for sharing. The Darko bit isn’t a suprise but the AR comments are a bit disheartening. Did they offer any opinion on what to do with Rubio should we get Irving?
This is where we need to separate fact from perception
While AR may not play with the type of IQ or consistency people want out of someone with such immense gifts, he’s still a fairly productive basketball player, certainly more so than Michael Beasley or Darko.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Why are you categorizing
Beasley and Darko together?
Beas is averaging 19 and 6, Darko is averaging 9 and 5. They’re on completely different levels of productivity.
Darko
is better on defense, worse on offense. Neither are very productive. 19 and 6 means virtually nothing to me other than he takes a lot of shots and plays a lot of minutes.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't put much stock in anonymous 'NBA Staff', but most of the evaluations these
folks made on our personnel have already been made here on the blog. We already know that
our guards are a trio of back-ups, for instance – there’s no one else to play that position unless you insert the ‘fart in a windstorm’ there. Yes, AR15 plays out-of-control, and I don’t know if hisgame can be channeled. He seems to get wound up like a top and just spin away, but we haven’t seen much yet – we haven’t seen the Jello harden. All the other observations are nothing new, and maybe a bit pessimistic on a couple of developing guys. Wes? to me he’s still an unknown in some areas. What surprised me is what surprise them – that he stuck to the Mamba like glue. I thought we lost that when Corey left. All of our guys need a ‘motor’. That’s no surprise, and that’s the main reason they ended up here instead of where they started. Hope there’s a lotto and we score.
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
Mmmmm...
cruncy Jell-o.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 28, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Er . . .
“crunchy,” even.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 28, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
as in 'no longer liquid, flowing all over the place'. 'Hard' is a relative term.
Coal and Diamonds are hard. One’s harder. You’re too cynical, Jason !!
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
So I've been told.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 28, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
"developing guys" I still put Beasley here. I know, he plays dumb, he's
a turnover machine and he’s ‘inefficient’, but I think he’ll mature. None of that’s fact-based, no, but he brought out some good play against the Lakers, he turned it on against the Celtics in the second half – I’m still wait-n-see. He’s talented, he’s athletic, and sometimes he shows desire. Although he’s up-n-down I think
he can bring it to another, more consistent, level. After all, he’s had health issues.
I don’t think it’s time to throw in the towel on this guy. He has predictable moves, in that he, 99% of the time, goes left. He’s working on it – hard. He’s been successful going right at least once or twice a game. He’s just getting more comfortable.
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
I'm not that down on Beasley . . .
I just thought “crunchy Jell-o” was a funny idea.
There are a few things about the Wolves keeping me here:
Love’s play.
Pek’s promise.
AT’s hustle.
Beasley’s personality and potential.
And now, AR’s possibilities.
I was pretty high on Darko at the beginning of the year, and I haven’t started hating him, but he has disappointed me quite a bit. And I hope like crazy Wes turns out. The rest of the team can get bent, for all I care. Of our PGs, Bassy pisses me off the least (when he’s in).
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 28, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions
There is zero chance
we win the draft lottery. Mark my words.
I'll be sure to assign you credit
for such a bold, not-meaningless call.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
Actually its a 19.9% chance at the moment
So saying zero chance is pretty silly. With that being said, my faith that it will actually occur is right on par with what you say.
Thank you for sharing.
Nothing all that surprising in the comments on the current players. For Beasley it certainly seems to come down to mentality and his willingness to play hard all the time.
I really think that any competent, starting level PG would bring about 10 more wins for this club… especially if the Wolves were running a different offense.
by Krotz the Wall on Mar 28, 2011 10:32 AM CDT reply actions
Kind of frustrating
That with how I expect the rest of the season to play out (maybe 2 more wins), 10 extra wins next year still leaves us short of 30 for the 5th straight year.
Thanks for this
Always good to informed but not connected opinion. Nothing particularly surprising, I guess. Hope they are right about Johnson’s ability.
Was this an organized event of some kind? How did this come about?
Really appreciate you sharing this.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 28, 2011 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
I was just lucky
my FO friend included me in this gathering. They other guys were long time friends of his. Some dinner before and some drinks after the game.
We never talked Rubio – I am not sure they would have any insight really. Their jobs seem to be current NBA player focused.
As I said, I was surprised at the AR comments. The guy really has not played all that many minutes in his NBA career. Seemed like a pretty tough label to place on him with that small sample size.
Great stuff JAF...
Interesting to hear their thoughts on Irving. I also think 12-15 wins is pushing it, but I’m ready to be proven wrong!
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
Bizarre Perspective
I would say the negativity on Randolph is bizarre given that the argument can be made that he has put up the 2nd best advanced stats of anyone on our team.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
Agreed, I would probably describe the criticism as "unfair"
Maybe they were trying to justify their teams unwillingness to go after him?
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
The Green comparison is definitely unfair
Wasn’t Green’s best season a 10ppg on middling efficiency in Boston? Randolph topped that in his rookie season.
Check out Gerald Green's small sample size moment in Houston.
4 minutes played. PER 76.3!
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
AR is so young
He is 21. We need to give him a chance. If he can develop and mature we might have a great free acquisition.
The contrast between the characterizations of Randolph and Ridnour is odd for me.
If someone had suggested that a player on the Wolves “played like a fart in a windstorm,” probably my guesses would have started with Jonny and Ridnour.
Jonny can’t tell if he’s passing or shooting sometimes, and ends up splitting the difference.
Luke’s athleticism is basically par, he’s no better or worse than an NBA point usually is in that respect. His decision making is pretty goofy, though. Even when he’s putting up numbers, his shot selection makes me wince, a lot.
These basically are scouts, by the sound of it, and it seems to me like scouts rate players’ body language and demonstrativeness awfully highly. That’s not the same as “motor.” Maybe that’s what’s going on with Randolph, to some extent.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I sort of agree
I like Ridnour as a player, but their love for him seemed a little over the top. As was the dislike for AR – a little over the top.
I think that just goes to say that player evaluation is still not just an analytical exercise. Personal likes/dislikes regarding a particular player skills/style can still color one’s perspective.
I also should point out this is guys around the bar, not guys in the draft war room. That might lead to a less analytical comments too.
I'd bet
that a lot of the AR bias comes from the full body of work, and teh situations he was in. Few MN fans probably saw a lot of AR in his 1.5 season with GS. And it was not an easy situation for him. Nellie was constantly frustrated with him, but was essentially an ass by any objective measure. I can’t speak for what happened in NY to keep him from even getting a chance. What is true is that AR built a reputation in the league, some from on court play and some from off the court stuff that probably circulates in that world. He was probably responsible for some but not all his rep. Here in MN there is a very small sample size of a very motivated AR. I think fans here can see the enormous potential of him as a player, and are probably hard pressed to understand the baggage that seems to follow him. I think that word circulates and reputations exist that are had to shake. I read Love’s seemingly skeptical initial statements about the acquisition of AR as carrying a heavy dose of underlying negativity based on a league-wide reputation of his inability to put it together (although there were probably other influences as well).
we've already seen
the good and the bad with Randolph. Two awesome games with putback dunks, etc, but also 3 TO’s in 16 minutes last night while going 0 for 5. And he loves to play PG for some reason. Some of his TOs would make Jonny Flynn blush.
A lot of his shots last night
Were layups in the paint that simply didn’t fall.
Jonny Flynn -- where hyperbolic is nearly reality -- uncle rico
Awesome read thanks for passing it on.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Mar 28, 2011 10:43 AM CDT reply actions
Thanks, Great write up!
Looking forward to hear about what they say about the front office.
Thoughts
Beasley – They don’t think he can be an A1 because he plays a little soft and takes plays off. I’ll take what I can get if that’s the faults people see in him not being a super star. I think with a coaching change and a good motivator who builds a team “we” identity, a players mentality can change to play more physically and more focused. I see what they say and agree that those are faults, but both are correctable which makes me happy.
KLove – Good to see he is respected around the league and not just as the “good numbers on a bad team” kind of guy that some people make him out to be.
Darko – I don’t know about the overpaid comment. I think he is misused, and if used properly he could be a good contract. Once again I am totally in agreement about motor. It’s a huge issue for him. I think if he could accept the role as a defensive big who dunks the ball and hits the boards like he was yesterday he has a niche in the NBA.
Ridnour – I’m a fan of him, but he is a backup, and a dam good one. Agreed with what these guys say.
Wes – He is one of the guys I put under inconsistent motor. I’m surprised they were impressed with him and not so much Beasley when they have one of the same main problems. I’m glad to hear the problems with Wes are mainly correctable, intensity is a mindset, and players can improve their ability to dribble. If he works on that and his intensity watch out.
Flynn – Any idea what kind of value he would bring back?
AR – He is like 20 and has a low BBIQ. If that’s the problem with him I’m not too worried (as long as we have a coach who can connect with him and teach him BBIQ).
Pek – Agreed. I really like Pek. Boneheaded travels and 3 second calls, yes he gets them far too often, but improvement from beginning of the season to now is awesome. Beginning of the year he couldn’t get minutes because he was a fouling machine. Now he has worked on that kink, while still not totally solved, and has shown some improvement in the 3 second and travel calls. I love how he sprints down the court and immediately develops low post position and with his strength guys can’t move him off the block. I feel like if he works with KLove and coaches about getting good position on rebounds he could be really valuable. He is also a 74% FT shooter. If he gets anything that resembles a 15 foot jump shot it would give us a center who does have to stand right next to the bucket. Wow, I just like this guys because he is badass too.
12-15 more wins. Wow! It’s bad that I’m excited to think about this team around the 30 win mark, but 30 wins, with loads of young athletic players with high potential who, if kept together, would reach their primes together. . . That’s something to actually get excited about.
I don’t know how the dollars work about extending players or what kinda value and capspace we would use up, but it seems like 1 or 2 or 3 more vets, a big guy down low like Kurt Thomas(ish), a SG like Jamal Crawford(ish), or a guy like Shane Battier could bring some veteran leadership to take this team to the next level. Still all speculation, but it’s at least a glimmer of hope.
Wes plays defense
Beasley doesn’t. That’s your difference I’d say.
Beasley scores way more points...
at better shooting percentages (overall, three-point, and free throw) than Wes.
The difference between these two as offensive players is huge, and it is not in Wes’ favor.
And here I thought Wes had a better efg%
…Wes is a more efficient scorer than Beasley. Beasley just shoots more – or rather shoots more long 2s to be specific. There’s something impressive, in a sad way, about Beasley having better individual shooting percentages at every range, and yet still managing to be less effecient. Not that either is anything special in terms of efficiency.
Like I said, the biggest difference between them is at the other end of the court, where Beasley is remarkably bad, and Wes is sometimes quite good.
"remarkably bad"
…and that’s where the conversation comes to an end. Hyperbole is hard to counter without getting overly sarcastic.
that's not hyperbole
that’s my honest assessment of Beasley’s defense this season.
If anything, and if I were to hyperbole, I would say that is charitable, as you have to at least play D to play it badly, and there’s been many times this season when I have no idea what Beasley’s been doing at that end of the court, unless it’s looking for double rainbows. But sticking to being as ‘neutral’ as I can (I’ve got no axe to grind, I wish in fact it were better), my assessment of Beasley’s defense this year at both the 3 and the 4 is “remarkably bad”.
As compared to Wes
Beasley’s defense isn’t all that bad. Both struggle with losing their man and leaving him open for a perimeter shot. Remember Wes Matthews torching both of these guys in the same 1st Half? Kobe is an isolation-type scorer who isn’t running around to get open for a three. Beasley could probably defend Kobe reasonably well, at least in sagging off and getting a hand up on dribble jumpers, the way Wes did and Paul Pierce always does. The Wolves horrible defense performances have largely dealt with helping too much on the post and struggling to rotate effectively on perimeter shooters. Beasley shares this problem with his teammates.
If the Wolves defense is “remarkably bad” (probably a fairer assessment than singling out Beasley) it seems tied closer to strategy than the individual abilities or commitment levels of the players.
Between Jonny Flynn, Al Jefferson, Mike Miller, Sasha Pavlovich, and many others I’ve had the pleasure of watching on that end, I can’t find anything remarkable about the ways Beasley has struggled on defense, this year.
I suppose there's a couple pieces to the argument here
One is semantics, one is relativity.
“Remarkable” simply means its worthy of note. Is Beasley’s defense bad to the point of being talked about? Sure, I don’t think that’s hyperbolic.
Now, is it worthy of note in comparison to many other members of our Timberwolves team, including Wes? Maybe, maybe not.
I definitely have no problem with saying that the Timberwolves’ defense as a whole is remarkably bad…
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 28, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
eFG% likes Wes because it's all about correcting for the value of threes, which make up a lot of Wes's game.
TS%, on the other hand, puts 2s, 3s, and FTs on the table, and there Beasley is a bit superior while taking significantly more shots. We all know, being Wolves fans, that Wes Johnson just can’t get that many shots right now because of his handle.
These are really apple-and-orange players, and the frustrating part is that neither of them is at all well served by what the Wolves run. Beasley’s long two impulses aren’t being addressed any more than Darko’s lefty hook crutch. Like we were saying in the game thread, Wes Johnson is just standing around, and the lack of off-the-ball screens in Rambis’s offense is almost calculated to leave Johnson and Webster doing that.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
More tantalizing ties
between Wes and Beas:
1. 3rd-year vet Michael Beasley is 19 months younger than rookie Wes Johnson. There’s some kind of Duke Brothers’ “age vs. experience” bet that could be made here, but I can’t decide which side to take.
2. Wes was picked too high because he’s a nice guy, Beasley was obtained on the cheap in part because of drug/behavior issues.
3. Wes is less effective at the 2 than he may be at the 3, but he has to play the 2 because Beas is already displacing him by being misplayed at the 3.
4. “Passiveness” is a weakness for both—in Wes because he’s a nice guy, while Beasley’s may be (or have been) chemically-induced.
5. Johnson has a secretary named “Beasley,” and Beasley has a secretary named “Johnson” (wait, no, that’s “Lincoln and Kennedy” nevermind).
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
They're almost as inextricably tied together as Love and Mayo.
Fate is a strange, strange mistress… what with her latex cat suits and all.
Number 3 is sort of, kind of, maybe debatable, but also epitomizes the roster alignment of this here team of ourn.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
What's debatable about 3?
And for once, I’m not being a contentious jerk. I really want to know what you think about it.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Weeell,
Even before the trade here, some people – Chuck Barkley among them – were saying Beasley would need to become a SF to come through on his potential any. Sir Charles:
“He’s not a power forward. He’s a small forward. He’s not big enough to play power forward. I think the kid still has a chance. He has to accept the fact that he’s a small forward. He’s not a power forward and he’s going to spend his summer working off the dribble, learning how to shoot jump shots, and intermediate jump shots. But he’s not a power forward. That’s his problem right there. I mean he is not a power forward in any shape or form whatsoever.”
Basically you and Kurt Rambis and Chuck and I all agree that his “natural” position is probably PF, but there’s at least some room for talkin’ about whether he’s truly out of position at the three. Or really whether he has a position.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 28, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it could work
if they stopped playing him like a fake kobe play him like james worthy and I would be happy somewhat
I'd rep Charles Barkley too if I could
Beasley isn’t a 4 in the NBA.
Or if he is, he’s at best a backup (behind the likes of Tolliver). If he wants to be anything more than an overhyped Craig Smith, it’s going to be at the 3. He’s got the athletic ability to overmatch most NBA 3s, and his defense is the same (none) at both spots.
I’ve been complimentary of the pickup, because if he does ever ‘get it’ at the 3 it’s a home-run, but I’m finding myself leaning more and more towards Eric in Madison (I believe)‘s unhappiness with it, that we’ve essentially wasted development and rebuilding time on him.
I hear this a lot about Beasley playing out of position and it confuses me everytime. Forget his stats at each position and look at his skills for a second. The only skill he has that you would want out of a PF is his solid mid range jumper. He’s too small (height-wise and strength wise) to guard PFs. He’s not a good rebounder. He’s not big enough or athletic enough to block shots or protect the paint. He’s not a post player. That sounds like a horrible PF to me.
Most successful “tweeners” are guys that are very long or are athletic freaks (AK-47, Josh Smith, Odom, etc.). Beas fits into neither category and would have to bulk up significantly to succeed at PF or turn into an offensive monster to make up for his major deficiencies in all other areas.
Part of Beasley’s problem has been the fact that he’s been yanked around positions throughout his career, making him less effective at PF and SF (both positions require very different bodies/skill sets).
by mikegrand15 on Mar 28, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
To Rambis's credit, one of his rigidities this year has been keeping Beasley in his SF spot.
As in, these last couple of games with Love out, he’s subbed Randolph in and played Tolliver as his backup at PF. Beasley is at the SF, here, for real.
(Also plays to his taller-always-better fetish across the roster, of course.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
You don't have to explain the joke
We got it we got it
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 28, 2011 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Surprise - Pek has a mid-range jump-shot; he just hasn't shown it much.
It’s an opportunity jump-shot when he’s open around the key. I haven’t seen him shoot it under
duress, though. He does have good form when he shoots it.
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
I think I've seen it twice
With one make and one miss. Hey 50% ain’t bad. I just didn’t know if he was actually solid with it or not, and thinking he is about 75% from FT he could be able to develop a little bit of mid-range. I also don’t know if “jump” is really the right word for it.
Beasley does play soft - but - lately he has been putting himself in a more aggressive mode.
He’s been attacking more. I’d love to have seen that dunk against the Lakers that Bynum aborted, for instance.
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
Yeah, the Darko being overpaid thing
is a popular misconception. But Darko’s actual pay per year is a little below average for a backup center. And he is starting! So Darko is definitely not overpaid. Completely untrue.
The issue
is that no one else was bidding for Darko. His rumored best offer in Europe was for the equivalent of $2M (although that would have been tax free).
The general feeling (among NBA followers – including Hollinger) is that we over paid by ~$2M x 4 years.
but ... but ... but...
Kahn only knows 2 price points… 2M and 4M.
~4M/year
Ramon Session
Darko Milicic
Luke Ridnour
Nikola Pekovic
~2M/year
Ryan Hollins
Anthony Tolliver
Too bad not one of the FA signings in that list SHOULD be a starter…
Stockpiling "winnable" games since we lost the first one
by Cedarpenguin on Mar 29, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Excellent stuff
Sure, nothing ground breaking, but it’s great to get this insight. Thanks.
These are pertinent issues as I ponder important questions such as the ability of a Beasley trade to return a high level SG. Also, I hope AR plays well enough that I am never tempted to use this new nickname.
Really enjoyed JAF
Most surprised by the Wes love. How does a player his age develop a handle now? Has that ever happened?
No
I see now way it happens. Also, his jumper has been getting worse as the season has progressed. I’ve all but given up on Wes Johnson to be anything but a bit player on a good team, as it would be extremely rare for a 23-year old rookie to move the needle much beyond his rookie year numbers. And a small amount of improvement from Wes still puts him firmly in the bad-to-mediocre wing category.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
He'll improve from increased confidence
Which I think will lead to increased consistency, but I see little happening that will raise his absolute ceiling as a player. Guys that age don’t suddenly learn to attack off the dribble or become bucket getters. It’s like post or rebounding dominance – you either generally either have “it” or you don’t.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Agreed
I think he can improve a little bit, but not enough to make him much of a factor for us in the future. The only other time I can see a guy like him improve a lot year over year is when they don’t get enough minutes to really adjust to the NBA – the we-don’t-know-what-we-really have phenomena. In his case, he has been given regular playing time all year, yet there has literally been no improvement from him throughout the season.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're right about him - he's either 'on' or 'off' on offense, his defense
may be better than we thought, but there are few examples so far –
Worthy didn’t have much of a handle. Maybe with his springs he could play more like
Big Game James. A lot of drop-steps, alley-ups, 1 or 2 dribble drives through the seams. he’s got to do more than catch-and-shoot because some games he’s 1 fer 10.
You can’t waste opportunities on a guy that can’t make shots consistently. He’s shown
flashes, no doubt. You need something you can bank on. When he’s not ‘on’ we don’t
have much to fall back on.
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
He can pass
BBIQ?
Wes’ ability to make the correct play around the basket when handling has really
surprised me and is a reason why I think there might be a bit of hope for his handle.
by WinTheLottery on Mar 28, 2011 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
You don’t need fantastic handles when you’re that athletic and can shoot that well. Richard Jefferson turned into a 20+ ppg scorer with limited handles by scoring in transition, improving his jumper, and learning how to score with straight line drives. He’s not going to turn into Chris Paul but its definitely possible for him to learn how to score in iso situations.
Playing next to Jason Kidd might help your PPG a little bit too
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Just gonna say.
Good thing we’ve got Kidd Jr. in the wings.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
But Wes can't even do straight-line drives!
He has a two-dribble quota that ends with either a jump shot or dump off to a big.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions
He’s definitely not there yet but I’m saying it’s not a lost cause. He can still develop into an okay ball handler and still score at a high level.
And Xand1, RJ still dropped 19+ ppg with the Bucks while playing with gasp Luke Ridnour. You know Luke didn’t help his PPG. lol
But everytime someone throws out an example of someone Wes can emulate
they almost 100% of the time were younger coming into the league and still had better rookie years (Richard Jefferson was younger, had a better PER, and a better WS/48). Show me a 23 or even 22-year old rookie that got regular minutes in his first season and produced as little as Wes Johnson, then moved on to become an above average NBA player. They are extremely few and far between. We can hope all we want, but that won’t change the odds.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Caron Butler??
I’m on the iPad and too lazy to actually look it up.
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
Butler vs Johnson
Okay, now I have a real computer…
Butler at 23…
PER: 10.7
EFG: .388
RebRt: 9.4
TOV%:11.4
Stl/36: 1.7
Blk/36: .4
Wes at 23…
PER: 10.2
EFG: .481
RebRt: 6.2
TOV%: 11.8
Stl/36: .9
Blk/36: .9
Seems like Butler could be best case scenario. The issue with this comparison is that Butler at 23 was in his second year, and it definitely was a regression compared to his first.
Patiently waiting for a new POBO
EFG% tells the story there
Butler has never been as bad as Wes is at getting to the line, and his shooting percentages from 2 and 3 have never been lower than that year. Seems like an outlier, and even as a bad outlier for Butler, that year still compares pretty well to Wes. Wes’ .481 EFG% is actually better than Caron’s career EFG%, and Caron is still significantly more efficient because he can occasionally get to the line.
Guys like Butler (and Wes) suggest that, unless you’re basically Ray Allen from 2 and 3, you need to be able to get to the line at a halfway respectable rate to be efficient. (Allen actually does get to the line at a respectable rate, but if he got to the line like Wes does, he’d still be passably efficient.) I’ll be surprised if that aspect of Wes’ game changes much at 24 and beyond.
Butler was hurt that entire season fwiw
Here’s a BB ref search. Based on players who have been comparably bad Wes looks unsureto be in the NBA in four seasons and if is in the NBA he’ll likely be a deep bench guy. Same with Wayne and likely Brewer (who the Mavericks have already decided isn’t worth being one of the 12 players they dress)
Problem with that
Is that Butler can create shots. He had a decent handle and was great at posting up to get the midrange J off. If Wes can develop that ability I think he’ll be OK, but he hasn’t shown it and Rambis certainly isn’t going to him anywhere other than the 3 point line.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Jefferson knows one thing Wes hasn't managed to figure out
Despite being 2 years older than when RJ came into the league: how to get to the line.
Per 36 FTA #’s from their rookie years:
RJ: 5
Wes: 1.6
Wes just doesn’t know how to use his athleticism to impact games outside of highlight reel dunks. He’s a poor rebounder who doesn’t get to the line. My realistic hope for him is that he continues to work on his D and his confidence in launching 3 pointers. He just hasn’t shown the skill set to be much more than a #4/5 guy on a good team. I think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment if you’re hoping for more than that.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
I do think that will adjust up a little bit...
when the Wolves get a PG that can anticipate and hit Wes while he is moving. Of course, that would also be dependent on a Wolves team playing a different offense.
Wes is no all star, but he’d make a fine starter with a good facilitator and a system that featured more cuts toward the basket… that also set up open shots from the perimeter.
by Krotz the Wall on Mar 29, 2011 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions
What I'm walking away here is that the Wolves
run an offense that’s bad for point guards and for wings like Wes Johnson who need movement and screens off the ball… And that’s what we sort of need to run, here.
Darn.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
B I N G O
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
I never said he was awful, but I don’t think he’s likely to be better than the 4th or 5th starter on a good team. He seems to have the makeup of a good, solid roleplayer who can play D and hit open shots. We could certainly use him better and get him better shots, but he doesn’t make it easy to feature him given his passive nature and inability to dribble more than twice and only in a straight line.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Why does the phrase "Rubio's buyout"
seem like foreshadowing?
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Thank you for taking the time
to write this. The quality/quantity ratio of your comments and posts is the perfect complement to mine.
I’m not worried about AR’s Gerald Greenness, partially because of AR’s size, and also because of the low-cost it took to get him. However, I’m completely certain that Rambis isn’t the coach who will get the most out of AR (or Wes, or Beas, or Rubio . . . ).
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
I think the word you were looking for was "antidote"
as in “your posts are the perfect antidote to mine.”
Or perhaps you wanted “fumigant.”
“your posts are the perfect fumigant to mine.”
That seems to work.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 28, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I used the "new math"
JAF’s ratio of 1/1, plus my ratio of 0/6268 = 100% high-quality comments, and I’m honored to be included in the conversation.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
I'm fairly certain
you used your actual number of comments. Low quality but always well researched. That describes my academic career.
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
Actually,
I fudged the figure from 6406 6407 down to 6268. The latter figure portrays a strong ability to interact and communicate, and a reasonable, healthy involvement in a leisure/social pasttime.
The real number borders on psychosis.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
fudging the numbers a bit...
now we’re really describing my academic career
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
Don't you think zero is a bit on the generous side?
Did you fail to calculate the negative value of so many of your comments?
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Nice post, thanks for sharing.
Boy, that Irving opinion sure is intertwined with Rubio, though. On the slim chance that Irving declares and the Wolves have a chance to draft him, that will be a tough decision they’ll face.
In this draft
I think they call Rubio up the day before and say, “If you’re coming this season, we’re not taking Irving. If you can’t guarantee you’ll be here next year, we’re taking him. However, we will continue to assume that your first NBA team will be the Timberwolves. We’ve already been laughed at for adding twenty-seven point guards to the roster over the last three years, we’ll survive the mocking we’ll for sure endure when we say that you and Irving can play together.”
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Yeah, sounds like a good plan.
Did I hear somewhere—maybe a BS Report or something—that the Wolves can sign Rubio this Spring, before the draft?
they could
they can sign him any time to his rookie scale contract; remember Rasho? They signed him at the very end of a season, IIRC, and brought him over.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 28, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
closer to none than to slim
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 28, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
So you're telling me there's a chance!
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 28, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
No - there are 2 chances.
“Slim and fat.” Chick Hearn
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
Ah, thanks.
It’d be nice (but very unlikely, I’d guess?) to get that situation cleared up, before the draft. In the Kyrie Irving scenario, that would allow for a draft night trade of some sort.
On a side note
This would probably be the one single thing that would make me not nearly as apathetic about the end of the season, and muffle my section of the “Fire Rambis” chorus for the time being.
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 28, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Rubio's buyout
If I’m not mistaken doesn’t Rubio have to decide on the buyout from his current team by a certain date though? I thought that date was before the draft. Can someone clarify this?
ACB finals end in mid-june
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 28, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
There is absolutely zero chance
that we get Irving.
I think they should call Rubio
and say “remember when you were good, like um, a phenom or something? Do you think there’s some chance you could revisit that place and time? If not, be a dear and make a proclamation that you’ll only play for say, the Knicks?”.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions
You calling Flynn "Yeller"?
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I think they should call Rubio
and say “remember when you were good, like um, a phenom or something? Do you think there’s some chance you could revisit that place and time? If not, be a dear and make a proclomation that you’ll only play for say, the Knicks?”.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I can't tell you how
disappointing it is to see five replies made to this innocuous comment, and then realize that three are from you, and one is from David Kahn as “wolver.”
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
One was redundantly placed in a repetitive manner
And one was an ad hoc experiment. Placing a response in the wrong place to see if anyone noticed.
Maybe I felt subliminally that you needed the reinforcement that your comments actually matter. You’re smart enough….
and darn it people like you.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Man, I don't see how they could pass on Irving no matter what Rubio decides
That kid has shown more natural ability to get to the hoop, draw fouls, score, and be an alpha dog than Rubio ever has. We need someone on the perimeter that can score and set-up people. Rubio is just a set-up guy.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They're once-bitten
by a disappointing dog named Jonny Flynn.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Can they claim amnesia and just go on as if that never happened?
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
There's only one solution.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
by feral on Mar 28, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is the allusion to
Jonny Griffin or Mark Madsen?
Or perhaps the unwillingness of anyone to shoot at crunch time?
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Shooting the "disappointing dog"
before it lurches across half court.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Draft Irving and keep Rubio
Don’t get rid of either one of these guys until we know what we got. If the wolves trade one of them that player will become an all-star and the one we keep will suck.
Trade Flynn for anything we can get. Play Luke as a two guard and give Kyrie and Ricky 24 minutes each and see who is better.
Thanks JAF
Always enjoy reading your stuff. I’m anxious to hear about the coaching/FO situation.
As for Rubio/Irving…I say pick Irving..keep both…and see who is better. PG’s are TOO important to miss out on a a potential great one. Sure you’ll lower the value of whomever you end up trading..but the risk of picking the wrong one is too great to screw around.
"But this one goes to eleven..."
It isn't that Irving is THAT special
just that Flynn is THAT bad.
We need to remember, that although he’d be taking some of Ridnour’s minutes, he’d be taking all (hopefully) of Flynns. Irving might not be that much better than Ridnour, at least right away, but Irving + Ridnour >>>>>> Ridnour + Flynn.
Addition through subtraction. I think a solid center would have a similar effect, for the same reasons.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Mar 28, 2011 12:28 PM CDT reply actions
Yes, Irving is special
He put up some monster stats as a freshman PG. Look at the per 40 numbers:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyrie-Irving-5735/stats/
And his early season competition wasn’t a bunch of cupcakes either. Here are some of the teams Duke played when Irving was healthy early in the year: Marquette, Kansas State, Butler, Oregon, and Michigan State.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, no question
If we can draft Irving, do it, and trade Rubio. Hopefully to a team where he would learn to appreciate what Mpls has to offer. I’d suggest Cleveland or Detroit as a good destination for the lad.
C'mon he's a nice kid. Let him go to L.A. where they have a big Hispanic contingent
and he can play with Gasol. Lakers don’t mind PGs who don’t shoot.
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
Draft Irving and keep Rubio
Let them play together, Let them split the time. Do not trade either one of these guys until we know who is better. If we end up with two super stars we can trade one later.
by xraraavis on Mar 29, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed 100%....
In fact..I’ve posted it many times. It only makes sense…
"But this one goes to eleven..."
Beasley's Offense in this system
Interesting that they think his offensive game would fit better with a less structured system, when there seems to be almost no structure in the Wolves offense. It seems to me Beasley has plenty of opportunity to free lance and shoot as much as he wants in this system. This is one of the reasons he’s averaged over 17 shots per game. I’d argue that this Wolves roster actually needs more structure on the offensive end. Most national media types and I’d assume scout types seem to think the Wolves only run the Triangle offense when in actuality they really don’t run any offense.
Motor formula (Explicit math warning):
Motor = [pace of positive contribution] / [pace of negative contribution]
ATrain has a MC (Motor Coefficient) between 1-2.5 and a season average of 1.324
JFlail has an MC > .00000000000042 (scientific calculator returns “E”… so I dunno)
Hey, I was waiting for a post like this
One of my favorite quotes:
“Studies show that 67% of all statistics are made up right there on the spot.”
— Todd Snyder, “Statistican’s Blues”
Thanks to SnP for posting the link to this youtube a couple of weeks ago.
The trick is in the tone...
…use an authoritative voice and people tend not to question these things.
Is it too early to place a bet on the Wolves winning the 2012 NBA Championship?
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
Funny you ask
I was just thinking of the preseason. I googled online sports betting, and there was one place where I could get really good odds on the Wolves making the playoffs. I almost put $100 down on it, but then got distracted.
Thank heaven for distractions.
On the motor
It is interesting that these guys talked about motor as the most important factor. I agree 200% (heh).
I’ve referred to it as attitude, the drive that causes Kobe or KG to work on improving their game year after year above & beyond the call of duty or salary.
It’s also about intensity during the game, but it’s also about the ability to learn & correct and the passion to improve.
If Beas and Darko had it, we would have a much different record this year, even under Rambis flawed system and decision making.
I don’t think we’re gonna change motors on Darko & Beas, but we can change Rambis, and maybe get some coaches who inspire players to tune their motors.
If Beas and Darko had it
they wouldn’t have been available to the Wolves.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
Brewer is a counter-argument though
He has a great motor and work ethic, but no matter how much time he spends in a gym jacking up shots and dribbling around cones, he’ll never be a productive offensive player. Motor matters assuming a certain baseline of skill has first been developed. Some guys like Corey Brewer never achieve that baseline.
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 28, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Corey's motor revs too high.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Great stuff JAF
Looking forward eagerly to the coach and FO installment.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
PS: Did they say anything about Webster?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 28, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Webster never enter the conversation
and actually Pek was about 30 seconds. Most of the time player time spent talking Love (figured much of that would be redundant) Beasley and Darko.
Ridnour, Beasley, Webster, Tolliver, Pek
are great second unit players for the Wolves. Let’s get some starters.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
Maybe we can compete in a 2nd unit league?
A league of our own?
Could we even win
The D-Leage?
Stockpiling "winnable" games since we lost the first one
by Cedarpenguin on Mar 29, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I can't even win
a spelling contest…
Stockpiling "winnable" games since we lost the first one
by Cedarpenguin on Mar 29, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Ridnour and PG play
I’m actually a big fan of ridnour. I don’t see his athleticism being a huge issue on either offense or defense. Occasionally he puts up weird shots, but in general he plays the part of the floor general well.
His play reminds of Cassell and his time in Minnesota. Sammy jacked up more weird shots than any above average player that passed through Minnesota, the difference, of course, was that he drilled most of them. Sam wasn’t very athletic, but played like a veteran and had a nice j. Also, Sam seemed to play the game at his speed.
I see a lot of these same qualities in ridnour. Hope he remains a wolf a long time. I’d like to see ridnour as a backup in minnesota for a long time, but if we draft irving, I doubt our FO will get rid of rubio. As a young team, we need at least one veteran PG getting burn, you can’t swap out one rookie for another.
On a side note, I think Bassy is also a great backup, he was playing great this year until Flynn came back. Such a tragedy. Wish we would have been able to dump Flynn at the deadline.
agreed on bassy...
Shame he hasnt played. Runs offense much better than Flynn…
"But this one goes to eleven..."
This is a joke right ?
Love is a A2 guy but None of these “insiders” said anything about Loves D. This sounds like garbage from this site. At best love is the 3rd guy for a big three. Then this was the real kicker, they are very high on Ridnour ). why ? dude cant play D or run team well. These “scouts” need to find new jobs
Just for today
I have a big test in a few days.
I hope your
education lasts for the rest of your life.
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
by PoorDick on Mar 28, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't seem like it's started, really.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 28, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fuck you Jason
I am not taking any more shit from guys like you
I doubt he's "taking your shit" anywhere either.
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 28, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Now what will I do with my shit?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 28, 2011 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe consider
stopping your overt racism against every white kid in the league, and people would be a little kinder to you.
Jonny Flynn -- where hyperbolic is nearly reality -- uncle rico
I feel for him
I didn’t have to study to be obnoxious. Seems like a quick learner though.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Chuck, hope the test comes back negative. Let me know. It will save me a trip.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Chuck had some sort of surgery last year.
In all seriousness, I hope he’s doing okay.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I had some sort of surgery as well
Where’s the love? I don’t see anyone calling me Mrs. Tangerine Dream.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
We don't have any data either way on that. XX XY, XXY, XO...
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Are you suggesting I don't know my X's X's and O's?
-XXXOOO
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
You are
not alone
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 29, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I love Love, but he's been posted up too easily. He gets, but he gives.
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
You can make a lot of derogatory comments about Love's defense
but getting posted up too easily is not one of them.
Motor
I’ve been thinking this the entire season. There are some very clear examples of guys not playing with a motor that, pardon the pun, even idles at a high enough rate. A lot questions related to whether the coach, GM, or players are responsible is obviously at the center of this, but it can’t be denied that they could use more “motor” guys. To be fair, though, who else besides KG had a good motor in recent memory? Madsen? Brewer? Wilkins? Greg Buckner? Kirk Snyder?
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 28, 2011 4:05 PM CDT reply actions
What about Love?
(don’t you want someone to care about youuuuuuuuuu . . . )
Only four more months until the lockout begins!
by PoorDick on Mar 28, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i hope this was meant for me...
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
by littleboxes on Mar 28, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I guess
Nice reference btw. His D lags at times, but he belongs in that category.
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on Mar 28, 2011 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
And this hasn't been rec'd yet?
Bullshit, I say.
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 28, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously
I don’t think I’ve had a Heart song stuck in my head in the past decade…
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 29, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
This.
And she still looks pretty good.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 29, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
and if you like jazz vocalists
there’s another Nancy Wilson for you too.
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Just checked her out on YouTube.
She has a great voice. And it appears she was a hottie back in the day.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 29, 2011 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
As long as we're talking smooth-voiced hotties
I was lucky to enough to see Ms. Janelle Monae perform “Smile” live at Varsity Theater a few years ago. Great style, and a great performer.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
Yikes.
I like the quality of her voice, and she’s certainly a hottie, but she’s dredging a river with that song. And she has that ghetto-yodel thing going on. Can you recommend a song that she sings without all of the vocal wiggling?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 29, 2011 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions
More upbeat Janelle, less vocal wiggling, more physical wiggling.
I can’t ever get enough of Tightrope.
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 29, 2011 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
That's more like it.
That’s pretty great. And Big Boi, too. Plus plus.
Am I imagining things, or is that backing band outfitted to resemble Andre3000’s video for “Hey Ya”?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 29, 2011 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I figure as long as we're sharing music
When I saw Janelle, she was opening for Jamie Lidell. He’s a fantastic British soul singer that has a history making both soul and electronic music. He runs with the Beck/Feist/Gonzales crowd, and he’s about as eccentric (and talented) as they are.
Before the show, I had no idea who Janelle was at all. I pictured as a white singer-songwriter type that played guitar or piano or something. Needless to say, I was pleasantly surprised by how much she differed from my expectations. There’s nothing she can’t do.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
Nikki Yanofsky
at 13, before she went a more popular route.
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Love Jaime's lastest album
I haven't written an insightful post in years.
by littleboxes on Mar 31, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
That Lidell song is pretty good.
There’s a lot of Daryl Hall in his voice.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 31, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I like that one, too.
But what’s with her “Chris Tucker in The Fifth Element” haircut?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 31, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
What's not to like?
The haircut? Sign me up!
The Midnight Special!
These chicks rocked:
by Rascal Flatts on Mar 29, 2011 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
30 wins next year?
we’d better win 30 next year. 30 wins based on this year’s standing basically puts you at the seventh pick in the overall 2012 draft (assuming no one behind you moved up.) that of course goes to the clippers. ouch. and that’s if we win 30.
for folks thinking of some sort of trade of beasley for our pick back, i say you’re dreaming, though of course i hope your dream comes true. they view that pick like gold. it could be as good as the first overall pick (the year after a potential lock out) and worst case feels like number 7. it aint something like 14 i can assure you of that.
because of this dynamic, i think the wolves have to go all in next year or fans would go nuts.
Oh yes, we're well aware of Clippergeddon/the Clippocalypse on the horizon.
That’s why Kurt Rambis has shrewdly been tanking these last two years. We’re wringing every last drop of lottery blood out of our many draft assets before we make that golden playoff run next year.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
The Wolves need to do three things for next season
Bring Rubio over, bring in a quality shooting guard and a new head coach.
Rubio is needed to spark the team and the fan base. Let’s give it a shot.
Some of the Wolves best basketball was when Malik Sealy and then Fred Hoiberg were the shooting guards. The Wolves need a high percentage outside shooter.
Rambus has shown that he should not be the Wolves head coach.
I don’t know if it would be 30 wins or not, but I think this team would be fun to watch with these improvements. (As for the draft, sometimes draft picks just turn out to be “craptastic” – (fantastic crap shoot?))
by WeDraftedPooh on Mar 28, 2011 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Odds on those?
Rubio: Given that he’s gotta make his decision around draft time, exactly when the lockout storm clouds will look most dire? Let’s be generous and say it’s 60-40 for, for the heck of it.
Quality shooting guard: Given that our POBO has just, at the moment of trading away Corey Brewer, explained that the team had too many wing options? Given the taking on of a big salary with that – explaining why Iggy or whoever was available? Let’s say that was just on-the-fly rationalization, and say there’s a 50% chance Kahn makes a splash on an established SG.
Moving on from Rambis: Given the contract and Glen’s tendencies there, as well as the lockout possibility/probability? We’ll go high end again, and say there’s a 60% chance these have been Rambis’s last few dances.
Okay, odds of all three together:
.6 * .5 * .6 = 18% chance.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
That final percentage
is only 5% lower than the Wolves winning percentage this year.
It is only 2% lower than the Wolves chances of getting the #1 pick (as of today).
Charlie Walters wrote that “a little birdie” says that Rubio’s family is OK with him coming over. (If there is a lockout – all bets are off.)
I would have to think that Rubio is not excited with his playing time in Spain and that the NBA looks like a fresh start.
Thanks for the percentages, it actually makes me more hopeful.
by WeDraftedPooh on Mar 29, 2011 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I'm making them up, and deliberately pitching them all pretty high.
Does anyone really think there’s a 50/50 chance the Wolves go hard after an established SG?
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Major Strasser's been shot!
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Captain Renault has maybe fifty of my all-time favorite fun lines.
Major Strasser: What is your nationality?
Rick: I’m a drunkard.
Captain Renault: That makes Rick a citizen of the world.
Captain Renault: We are very honored tonight, Rick. Major Strasser is one of the reasons the Third Reich enjoys the reputation it has today.
Major Heinrich Strasser: You repeat Third Reich as though you expected there to be others!
Captain Renault: Well, personally, Major, I will take what comes.
Captain Renault: Oh no! Not here please! Come to my office tomorrow morning. We’ll do everything businesslike.
Jan Brandel: We’ll be there at six!
Captain Renault: I’ll be there at ten.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
The fart simile is a real distraction for me
Maybe it’s just me, but I find that rhetorical device a bit juvenile even for a bar setting. Did that cause others to give a little less credibility to these guy’s opinions?
I'm trying to understand....
is there any upside to a fart in a windstorm? Or is it all bad? Is the best case that it just blows away from you really fast?
Also, did all these insiders agree on everything, or was there any debate about their opinions?
I’ll be kind of surprised if Jonny is in the NBA next year.
by SeaWolf on Mar 28, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to "rec" the glass-half-full take that at least the fart will go away fast. Way to be optimistic.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
"Fart in a windstorm"
The meaning = exercise in futility.
Totally wasted effort, whether the intent is positive or negative, it just blows away. Not even worth expending the energy to irritate your enemies, cuz they won’t notice.
An expression first heard on the plains of SW Minnesota, during a tornado.
Lovely story
I’ll make sure I credit you each time I retell it.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Wouldn't happen to know when "shart" was coined would you?
Now that would be valuable knowledge.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Same windstorm,
but it involved messier witnesses.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 29, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe the word "shart" was coined
…after the nuclear era, to replace the word “fallout”, which came into common use to explain brown stains on underwear. But it became confusing after some people felt that they had to send their Jockey shorts to be buried under a mountain in Nevada.
I believe that “shart” has been replaced by the term “juicy lucy” in some neighborhoods of the Twin Cities.
by timmuggs on Mar 29, 2011 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ok congrats
You outgrossed me! However, good luck outgrossing my twin brother, Poor (wilted) Dick. Sorry for the commentary bro.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Contrast this to Jonny Flynn's play
which could realistically be described as a fartstorm.
More to the question is, 'who are they?' NBA staffers can be more crass than the general population,
so it doesn’t surprise me much. With that, I dedicate this song to Jonny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwO0_mID93c
"a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
Well,
it beats Oasis.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Mar 28, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes I agree it's a juvenile description
I’d be more concerned whether he can he burp the alphabet.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
BBIQ?
Can Randolph be worse than Flynn or Beasley?
Let's hold them all up next to the gold standards:
Chris Carr.
Stromile Swift.
Hmm.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Interesting thing about Chris Carr
He has shown to be a very strong, technical coach in AAU and at Eden Prairie. Certainly knows the game – just could not process it as a player.
Yeah, I know. When I hold up his playing career here and think about him as a coach, it makes me smile.
Chris Carr, defensively… Whooo hoo.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
I'm so surprised
That the folks you spoke with had the same take on AR that I have shared before his coming to the Wolves. Remarkable.
Dingus Kahn, it's over
The only difference being
that they’d actually seen him play
by dropstep on Mar 28, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Dropstep
Nice try, though. I’ve seen him play AND seen him limp off the court for half of last season.
Dingus Kahn, it's over
Ohhhhhh
10-day later buuuuuurrrrrrrnnnnn.
That’s the worst kind, right?
I rarely get over the 2 rec hump...
by BrettAhlgren on Apr 7, 2011 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, you do a remarkable job echoing conventional wisdom.
I’d thought you were probably wanting to wait until the season was out to pass judgment on Randolph, rather than blowing this way and that in every passing windstorm.
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Full circle
“passing…… in a windstorm”
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions
He's not echoing conventional wisdom
he’s breaking your cognitive dissonance, mere mortal.
Jonny Flynn -- where hyperbolic is nearly reality -- uncle rico
Speaking of echoing conventional wisdom...
“I’m an idiot!”…………….“You’re an idiot!”.
"I don't use cliches, and I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream".
by Tangerine dream on Mar 29, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
(When you break your cognitive dissonance, is farting involved?)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
Not noticeably...
…unless you are standing downwind.
great write up
except for the spelling error in the title. gotta spell check that stuff if you want to make it out of the fanpost ghetto.
(One can always use "Edit" to fix 'em there, too.)
"Those things about which we cannot theorize, we must narrate." – Umberto Eco
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