Becoming Birther
by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2011 9:05 PM CDT
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First, watch the vid. Thoughts, questions, and comments below the fold.
There's no good way to start writing about this so let's start with the obvious: The most noteworthy quote in that entire exchange--at least in terms of the future of the Wolves--is that Kahn repeated his post-season presser tinkering nonsense. It's still there. Despite having a few weeks to think about the wisdom, optics and impact of telling a fanbase that has suffered through the fourth-worst two-year stretch in NBA history that their favorite team simply needs a bit of tinkering, he still went with that sales pitch. Unfortunately, everybody has already heard the noteworthy quote and they moved on to the most newsworthy one instead.
This is one of those classic Rashomon-type quotes/situations--there are multiple angles, versions, takes, whatever, and each one of them has an element of truth to it: David Kahn was making a joke. A bad GM was trying to square the humor circle between a sick kid, a dead owner, and the legitimacy of the NBA lottery. A guy was caught on camera making a silly comment to a bunch of reporters who thought it was funny. A professional spokesman made a joke about the legitimacy of his industry. Someone with no clear exit plan to an interview after a tough situation. A former reporter trying to make a human connection with a bunch of newsmen. A throw-away comment. I'm sure you can come up with your own example.
On its own, this specific incident is far too complicated to make any broad statement or argument about the efficacy/efficiency/whatever of the guy who made it. It can be viewed in too many ways for it to stand on its own.
Of course, the flip side of having an ambiguous event/statement is that you can use it to advocate for whatever viewpoint you happened to come to the table with. If you think that David Kahn gets a bad rap, then you go for something like "The reporters were laughing too" angle. If you think that he is an incompetent who doesn't know the first thing about basketball and who frequently says things before thinking (Mike Beasley smokes weed!), you can order up a big bowl of "He's making a joke about the legitimacy of his industry". Whatever the case, if you subscribe to the idea that there are multiple angles and a significant amount of context, then you also should think about subscribing to the idea that the event can legitimately be used for multiple (and wildly opposed) ends.
"This league has a habit, and I am just going to say habit, of producing some pretty incredible story lines," Kahn said. "Last year it was Abe Pollin's widow and this year it was a 14-year-old boy and the only thing we have in common is we have both been bar mitzvahed. We were done. I told Kevin: 'We're toast.' This is not happening for us and I was right."
Perhaps something that every angle-taker can agree on is that the people asking the questions own some responsibility for the way in which this thing has played out. From laughing with (at?) an interview subject to not following up on a few obvious points (Most obvious: Are you talking about bad karma or the lotto being rigged?), the assembled media displayed a troubling lack of....well, something.
Maybe I've watched too many movies or read too many books about the plight of a detached journalist rising against all odds to break an important story, but one of the things that really amazes me about sports journalism is the chumminess between teams and the press and the willingness of the press to cash in on some of the fruits of this weird relationship's labor. Kahn clearly thinks he's joking with the assembled media. There are obviously people laughing (Was the AP guy one of them?). Is it fair to report on a quote as a straight line when it was eeked out as a humorous bit? If the guy who reported it wasn't laughing does that make it different?
Whatever the case, we know that Jonathan Givony from DX laughed. He laughed hard. We know that he took exception to the idea that this was being played as a straight quote and that it was some sort of controversy. He obviously thought it was funny. Is it unreasonable to think that someone standing close to him did not? Whatever the case, another question or two from the assembled media could have helped to flesh things out a little. (BTW: You can read the AP guy's twitter feed here.) The lotto is not rigged. The Wolves did not get robbed by ending up with the 2nd pick (they actually bucked the odds). They do have a long and proud history of being on the wrong side of what many of its fans view to be karma. Was that what Kahn was clumsily referring to? Was this his feeble attempt to move from talking about "our league" to referencing the inherent fatalism of Wolves fandom? Was he trying to be one of us? Is this something you want from your GM?
Never trust the artist--trust the tale.
My own personal view of this little escapade is that it should probably be filed away in the "par for the course" drawer. What else can this man say--about personnel decisions, draft picks, basketball philosophy, so called mock drafts, coaching strategies, teams the Wolves are modeling themselves after, whatever--to make someone realize that he is largely unserious about the major requirements of his job? You're going to Love Jonny Flynn. Singular moves. Ricky and Jonny can play together in our league. Long and athletic. And so on and so forth.
At some point, his constant and unending string of inanities became something that resembles the media drumbeat mentioned in Erich Fromm's Escape from Freedom. We are bombarded with so much nonsense from the guy that it all blends together, making it a nearly impossible task to determine what is a solid target for ridicule and/or what should simply be tossed aside...hell, what is even deserving of praise. Jonny has a great smile (boom), Mike Beasley smoked too much pot (boom), top 10 draft picks should be used on players that have a chance to be stars (boom), we'll make a surgical move (boom), I foresee some significant tinkering (boom), I like the players on this team (boom).
It all sounds the same at this point. At least it does to me. This realization has made me a) view the franchise as a large-scale joke, b) use "32 wins over 2 years" as the be-all/end-all (i.e. trust the tale) of Kahn-based evaluation, and c) made me question whether or not this is what it feels like to become dogmatic.
One of the things I try to do with people and viewpoints I do not agree with is to find stories from my life that may serve as an analogy to how someone came to believe or be this, that, or the other disagreeable opinion, person, or thing. I'm not going for straight-up empathy; rather, I'm simply looking to see how people take logical steps to places I simply cannot imagine visiting. I'm not looking to tolerate (who actually says "I tolerate you?") anything or feel anybody's pain. I just like to have the forensics on the opposing thought process.
One thing I have never, ever been able to grasp is the birther movement. Without going too deep into the weeds on this (ridiculous) issue, I simply do not get how a single person (never mind in the aggregate) could come to this opinion. Certainly, there are some very smart people who believe that President Obama is not an American. Why would a smart person subscribe to something like this?
I think David Kahn is a terrible GM. I think he is driving the franchise into the ground. I think that each and every single day he is allowed to keep his job is another week added to the amount of time it will take to undo the damage he has already done. I think he says ridiculous things and has no clear or solid understanding about modern professional basketball.
Now substitute President Barack Obama for David Kahn and the "worries" about sports entertainment for things that actually matter like health care, war, and the federal budget.
Is this how something like birtherism happens? (boom) Am I on the road to Kahn birtherism? (boom) Did he really own a D-League franchise? (boom) Did David Stern stick his neck out for the guy? (boom)
Earlier today Myles Brown asked the following question on Twitter:
If anyone besides Kahn made those comments last night, would they be so 'controversial'?
After putting out a cheap The Snide-style answer ("If anyone besides Homer said D'oh, would they be so funny?") this remark got me thinking. At what point do Kahn critics simply feed into the constant drumbeat of nonsense associated with the guy? Is it even possible to take a nuanced position on the man anymore? Isn't talking about Kahn the best thing about talking about Kahn? After all, Bill Simmons and Chad Ford just spent about 20 minutes on a recent podcast talking about the worst team in the league...mainly because of the business associated with the Wolves' POBO. At what point do you simply tune out any notion of nuance about the actor and enter into a closed epistemic loop with like-minded people about the tale? Is it possible to be reasonable in that loop? Has Kahn created a loop or is he simply that awesomely awful to have created a massive community of Kahn-bashers?
Whatever the case, today I found myself reading web reports and tweets about the quote that seemed to be on auto-pilot (my tweets included). (boom) Is this the result of a chummy media focused on behind-the-scenes access and webhits? (boom) Is it the result of massive-scale incompetence? (boom) Is it a mix of the two? (boom) If so, how much of a mix? (boom)
I'll freely admit that I think I am at a point where there is no amount of new evidence that could change my mind about the ability of Kahn to make an informed and modern professional basketball decision. The car has crashed in the ditch and it is on fire. I do not want to take the time to find out if the guy who drove it there can now learn how to safely operate a vehicle. Have I entered the loop or is that a legit position to hold? Were there drums in Rashomon? (boom)
What about non-political truths like anthropogenic climate change or evolution? Is this the same road people walk down on their way to denying broad scientific facts with copious amounts of data? Is the Kahn business a harmless/entertaining case study of how a single act or person can generate a response that snowballs its way through a series of individual and binary choices that causes population drift away from the mainland of consensus opinion and/or fact?
Whatever the case, I only hear the drumbeat anymore. The 4th worst two-year record in league history is more than enough to make me not want to hear any minor explanations about tinkering or bad jokes about sick kids, dead owners, and bad karma (which I honestly think he was referring to). Trying to make sense of each beat only wears me out above and beyond 32 wins over two seasons. Am I now operating in a closed loop (or, at the very least, am I contributing to one with the content of this site)? I don't know. I feel like the case has been argued and for some strange reason the jury has left the building. We all know it will end soon. (boom) We all know the guy won't be around much longer. (boom) I can't even find humor in the drumbeat.
It's getting old. (boom)
It's getting acrimonious. (boom)
The case against him has been made over and over and over again. (boom)
It's time to act like the drumbeat isn't there. Canis Hoopus: Kahn Free since May 18, 2011. Hopefully the Wolves will follow suit in the very near future.
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Please!
You were a daydreamer, a sass-mouth, and, not infrequently, a bit of a gigglepuss. Somehow I doubt twenty years of amphetamines and failure have done anything to improve that.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 18, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Is that free as in "free kittens"?
Not sure anyone is buying.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 18, 2011 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
How about the very start of the interview....
…..where Kahn says he “hasn’t done the research” and “hasn’t been studying it” and “it’s too early”
Fantastic. Our draft fortunes are in the hands of a guy who hasn’t been paying attention and thinks the end of May is too early to start making draft boards. A clear admission of being incapable of the job and basing draft picks on 6OTs and smiles.
“Oh, I haven’t really been paying attention to him this year, but he came in and had a really good, smiley half-hour workout. Let’s draft him”
I didn't even want to go there...
…but, yeah. RUMINT has it that this year might be even more entertaining than last year, as last year had some folks left over from the McHale regime left over to help out. Imagine that. Kahn’s first 2 years may have been aided to 32 wins by help from the McHale era.
I'm seeing a lot of names pulling out of even general workouts
Guys not even doing athletic drills at the combine
It's comedic gold
Now we’re drafting players for their smiles alone
We eagerly await the selection of Lucas Nogueira
Is that helpful that players won't workout...
No Wes Johnson’s or Jonny Flynn to fall in love with. In theory.
Kerry Eggers: "There are those who feel Kahn will be a new-wave type of GM along the lines of baseball’s Theo Epstein, and Daryl Morey of the Houston Rockets. Kahn will likely be more of a hybrid, employing a bit of an old-school tact as well."
except
Wes and Jonny weren’t all that good in their workouts. Wes was actively poor, from what I saw in the youtube clip of it, despite working out 1 on 0.
It’s not their workouts, it’s not their combines/stats, it’s not their body of work in college. It…I really don’t know what makes David Kahn fixate on somebody and decide he’s ‘his guy’ no matter draft position and bpa. It seems to be the ‘looks like an nba player’ except that only works for Jonny if he’s not standing by any NBA players…There may really be something to the theory of the ‘smile and handshake’ impression they give at their interviews.
by rickyp on May 19, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did he just stand in the corner, looking at the chair guarding him?
by aarendsvark on May 19, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
btw this was a great write-up. I’m sure I’ll be reading it again a long time from now.
by fanslaststand on May 19, 2011 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, that first bit of the interview INFURIATES me
Has this man learned nothing about drafting players? His whole spiel about it being super early and how fluid things will be just goes to show how little stock he puts into a player’s body of work playing actual basketball games and how much weight he puts on interviews and workouts. His whole interviewing and workout technique to date has actually led to worse picks than simply going to the mid-May DX “so called” mock and picking the guy Givony put in our slot. Jesus, what an idiot!
by Rascal Flatts on May 18, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It probably reinforces
the reality that Kahn has no intent to actually draft anyone. He’s fixated only on trading that pick. Now, most of us probably feel that he really then should be scouting the draft class, trying to line up players with teams who have specific needs. Basically, he should be scouting and preparing draft boards to create trade talk scenarios… oh, and to be prepared just in case no one is interested in making a deal with Kahn.
by Krotz the Wall on May 19, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Understood
and overall, I agree with the idea of shopping the pick. So I realize that the emphasis on this draft class might be a little different. But he answered the question in a way that suggests he still has no idea what he’s doing. The workout and interview process should be nothing more than trying to confirm what is already known about these prospects. In other words, it’s not early at all. It’s very, very, very late in the process of assessing talent. A good front office should make very few changes to their draft board at this point in the process.
by Rascal Flatts on May 19, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, that kind of stood out to me too
I think you could view it at least two ways
- Positive: He knows who the good players are and roughly what the tiers are in his own mind. However, he doesn’t know how the draft will play out since he didn’t have the draft order until minutes earlier. So if he is including ‘trades up/down’ in his overall picture, that won’t be clear for a while.
- Negative: Being a non-stats, non-data guy, he inordinately values the in-person interviews and workouts. He hasn’t had time to watch film personally on all the guys. So he is basically just starting his evaluations.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 18, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Note to self
Putting blank lines between numbered bullets does not work with SBNations wierd software!
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 18, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
METHINKS he might've been sandbagging a bit there.
You don’t think he knows anything about the top two players in the draft?
Besides, seems like he is actively looking to trade it.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on May 18, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
No
I don’t think he knows anything about the top two players in the draft. (I think you hit the mark with the 2nd part of your comment)
Come on, he had to have watched the Zona/Duke tournament game.
…..right?
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on May 18, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't say it enough...
….everything you think this front office should know, erase it and start over.
No one heard the question he was responding to
He was talking about mock drafts and how nobody knows at this point who’s taking who where…
Let's count the hits: July 2010 - Present
1. On television argument with Chris Weber during Summer League broadcast. Donkey Kahn contending that the careers of Vlade Divac and Chris Weber (both who earned NBA Championship rings) are very similar to the trajectory of Darko;
2. With a couple weeks and ample time to deliberate, Kahn goes on radio with Reusse and calls Chris Weber an “expletive”;
3. Then the in-season projections of All Star futures for Jonny Flynn and Darko;
4. Then the “show of hand” (raise your hands if your Sure) about how Donkey Kahn raised the talent level of the Wolves (as evidenced with a 17-win season);
5. Then the latest buffoonery at the NBA Lottery.
If Donkey Kahn can project Jonny Flynn as a future All Star, why can’t I project him as a future stand-up comedian at a sleazy nightclub in Vegas? Bada Bing! Show of hands, anyone?
Dingus Kahn, it's over
Myles Brown is absolutely right
Kahn has deleted any reservoir of good will, where people just write it off as a one-off comment. He is at a point where a sneeze is immediate construed as buffoonery.
Hope you’re off to a good Spring, S-n-P!
Dingus Kahn, it's over
You didn't even mention
- The big ‘singular’ move (hint hint – for an ALL STAR type player! – hint hint) that was supposed to happen by the deadline a few months ago
- The 5 windows or 7 1/2 windows or whatever of opportunity during which he was going to assemble the club. I think that was a few windows ago and we still have a team with 4 PFs and not much else.
- Hollins is breathtakingly athletic. Sessions is a very good young PG. (whoops, guess that was a rather temporary opinion)
- We can definitely attact a very good free agent during the summer of 2010 with our cap space.
It’s a rich tapestry of fail.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 18, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
My favorite thematic fail..
…(which was mentioned in the Simmons podcast) is that he started out pitching a Celtics-esque plan (they would accumulate assets and trade for established players) and they have moved into aping OKC and Memphis’ “plans”.
True, but with a slight caveat
At the end of the 2009/10 season Donkey Khan and Rambis stated that last summer’s top goal was to acquire a to-go veteran who would shoot the rock at the end of games and kill the opposition.
tick….tick….tick
Dingus Kahn, it's over
It really is amazing...
…how the Celtic blueprint has morphed into the OKC/Memphis one. The guy truly is a traveling salesman.
"Certainly, there are some very smart people who believe that President Obama is not an American. "
I disagree. I think there are some very smart people that prey on many less-smart people ready and willing to believe that President Obama is not an American.
As for Kahn, it was another comment best-saved for cocktail party conversation, but instead sent over the airwaves. I don’t really care—he wasn’t trying to offend anyone and everyone makes cracks about Stern rigging the NBA. But, I’d like to see better results on the floor this year. That’s all I care about, really.
by Andy G on May 18, 2011 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I think the whole..
….“very smart people preying on less-smart people” argument is problematic. I have family in Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Tennessee and their political views are often referred to as being “stupid”. They’re not stupid people. I know this for a fact. Do I think that there is cynicism involved in the whole birther movement? Yes, but I think it is more complex than smart people making hicks look stupid. I do agree that I’m all about results at this point. They need to win games and look like a competent franchise.
I guess what I mean
is that Donald Trump knows what he’s doing, and when he runs for president on the Birther Card, he is a few steps ahead of his hopeful voters.
Trump never thought for a second that Obama was born in Africa.
I completely agree w/Trump
But in terms of the majority of people in the “movement”, I think it is something else. Are there people who use this (and other similar) issue(s) for their own benefit? Absolutely. I still think you need to convince otherwise smart people to make it all work.
"I completely agree w/Trump"
there is a headline that could be taken out of context!
i probably missed it in the onslaught of post-draft comments, but why the switch from puppy dog to journey?
They're otherwise smart.
Smart is one thing. Informed is another. I don’t think there are many Tea Partiers for whom cutting taxes on the highest incomes, cutting government projects and programs, and bailing out large businesses are in their best interest. That, to me, says their political views are stupid, which is not to say they are stupid people. People believe what they want to believe. When confronted with facts that contradict their views, it seems many ignore them or question the messenger. That’s also a stupid thing.
I think the psychology of sports fandom...
…can say/teach a lot about the psychology of politics these days. People root for their team. Also, the way in which the media has devolved into little more than a delivery mechanism for binary choices about any given issue has simply fueled this fire. If you look at any issue in a linear fashion and imagine that the way to get from Point A to Point B is a series of individual binary choices, logic suddenly becomes something akin to a Plinko board and reasonable, smart, and logical people can end up in crazy spots. If the main motive guiding your decision making in this sort of situation is fan-esque allegiance, you can really get off the beaten path in a hurry. Tea Partiers root for their team just like Vikings fans root for theirs. Each group will accept certain internal contradictions in the name of the overall perceived direction/worth of their club/brand/whatever. However, if the Packers or Democrats do something similar…well, given the limited ways in which political information is presented en masse, either you’re with the Vikes or you’re against them. Let’s say that the big issue of the next news cycle is that President Obama has personally found a way to turn apple pies into a clean burning fuel that will replace oil as the dominant energy source of the next millennium. This would be an amazing and complex thing. However, in order for it to be properly presented on the TV, people are going to have to take sides. I’d almost guarantee that the lead story on CNN would not be the efficacy of the technology or its scientific implications; rather, they would talk about “what it would mean” for November 2012. They would then rush to Sarah Palin’s Facebook page to further break it down.
This will sound kind of silly, but my least favorite media personality in the history of me listening/watching media is the producer of Paul Allen’s radio program. Every time I hear the guy I have to turn off the radio. I’m sure he is a nice person but he is such a cartoonish caricature of everything that is 100% wrong with modern media that I can’t believe my ears when I hear him: Big takes for big takes’ sake; a clear lack of any sort of relevant expertise on the majority of issues he talks about; understanding that his main job is to keep the discussion entertaining by providing opposing takes (however insane they may be); and so on and so forth.
This sort of approach is sooooooooo ingrained in our media that it influences the way we think about everything, from politics to sports. It’s insane…and I blame it all on Tiny Joe Nelson ;)
I think it partly comes down to this brilliant article from the recent Onion:
Nation Down To Last Hundred Grown-Ups
‘Mature Adults Could Be Gone Within 50 Years,’ Experts Say
…The endangered demographic, which is projected to die out completely by 2060, is reportedly distinguished from other groups by numerous unique traits, including foresight, rationality, understanding of how to obtain and pay for a mortgage, personal responsibility, and the ability to enter a store without immediately purchasing whatever items they see and desire.
“Our grown-ups are disappearing at a much faster rate than we previously believed,” said Census Bureau chief Robert M. Groves, who believes the decline in responsible adults may now be irreversible. “Unfortunately, we’ve only recently noticed this terrible trend, perhaps because of this group’s unusual capacity to endure hardships with quiet dignity instead of whining loudly to draw attention to themselves.”
“If nothing is done, these wondrous individuals, with their special ability to consider the long-term consequences of their own behavior and act accordingly, will be wiped-out completely,” Groves added.
According to recent data, the grown-up population has plummeted dramatically since 1950, when a Census count found that more than 24 million Americans could both admit when they were wrong and respect a viewpoint other than their own. Today, only one in three million citizens can provide thoughtful advice to a fellow human being instead of immediately shifting the topic to their own personal issues or what they had for lunch…
It's not the story
…anymore, it’s what other people say about the story. I hate to bash “the media.” I graduated from J-School at the U. But “Obama Pie” is a great analogy. Sometimes, a statement is a fact. There aren’t two sides. Other times, one side is flat out wrong. Pat Kessler’s “Reality Check” feature should be the whole newscast.
Let me toss out a favorite Onion piece of mine:
Study: 38 Percent Of People Not Actually Entitled To Their Opinion
My K-FAN peeve is Barreiro’s tendency to frame everything as an argument, even if nobody else actually takes the opposing view. “These people who say…” for example, that defensive backs should be allowed one shot with a firearm within five yards of scrimmage. He’ll rant for five minutes about how stupid you’d have to be to think that way. Dan, those people aren’t listening. Let’s just move on.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Barreiro program
On one hand, I really like the variety and his basic attempt to put on a good show about a lot of good topics. On the other hand, his failure to realize that his “middle man” take is just as ideological (albeit with process, rather than doctrine) as anyone on the “far right” or “far left” (whatever those things mean anymore) is a huge handicap. My god man, whenever you criticize a Republican you don’t have to punch a hippie. It’s not that hard of a concept.
I think what adds to the media nonsense these days is the overblown PR industry. I’ve always kind of had a hobby to read about how the PR industry invades news media, but being close to this team has really opened my eyes to just how much of the content in our newspapers is generated by news release or the PR industry. I’ve done some LexisNexis searches on the subject and there have been a few journalism papers that estimate the amount of content in major papers from PR sources is upwards of 60%. The one thing I want to make sure I really teach my daughters is media literacy. It’s almost like we’ve reached the point that Walter Lippman talked about a long, long time ago: there’s a thin film of PR nonsense between us and reality. We don’t really see the world.
I understand most of what you are saying, although I am missing some of the literary/film references.
However, I’m not sure what you are suggesting. I believe you are saying people have stopped thinking about Kahn rationally and now just assume everything regarding him is a joke/mistake. By declaring CH Kahn Free, does that mean you are going to just pretend he doesn’t exist, or just avoid any discussion of his foibles, or?
More importantly, when you say he will be gone soon, is that wishful thinking or a strong possibility based on inside info or?
Sorry for all the ?s I am a curious kind of coyote.
It would make me happy if we learned tomorrow that the entire Kahn/Rambis era was over and new competent folks would be running the draft/FA/trade period this summer. However, I’d like to win the lottery too.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
I don't have any inside info on him being on the outs
My argument here is, in a very basic nutshell, that the guy has simply crossed some sort of weird line where anything he says is inseparable from his past performance. Even if he has a good point, it’s inseparable from the noise of his prior nonsense.
Rambis
Have you heard anything about rambis? I know Kahn is meeting with rambus’s agent tomorrow. I would think they would want to clear it up by the draft.
by rickyrubio10 on May 18, 2011 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I've heard he's gone...
…and I’ve heard that he’s on board. I have no idea what to believe about the guy. I have heard from other folks on a few listservs and IM groups that Kahn can’t find another coaching candidate if he gets rid of Rambis. That probably has to account for something.
About as much as...
…the part where Taylor can’t find another GM candidate if he gets rid of Kahn?
…yeeaahhh….
There are other candidates?
I think the word is out about the craziness of this particular position.
Wouldn't GM be easier to convince someone though?
I mean Walsh went to NYC – talk about a batsh#t environment under Dolan and after the flaming wreckage of Zeke/LB. He demanded more control, less wierd media micro-managing, and got it.
Wolves IMO need an experienced GM who has enough credibility to tell Taylor / Moor the truth and have them believe it. “Look, you org is a laughing stock. Your team has some decent young talent but is horribly balanced and a long way off. It is going to cost money to bring this front office up to a competitive level of competence, and we are going to need to trade some of the young talent to balance the roster.”
It is hard not to stew on what would have happened if Taylor had given Lindsey the $$ and control he was rumored to have wanted in order to do the job.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 18, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
It's hard not to stew...
..on what would have happened if Taylor had given Stack the $$ and control…
Moor and Taylor are givens at this point. Stack knew what he was doing about the cap and Hoiberg and Babcock were ok with player evals. The Hoistackcock triumvirate was the best this franchise could have hoped for with Moor and Taylor at the top.
Realistically, it seems like there are three options
- Fire Kahn and hire new GM first. Coaches are not going to want to be hired by a lame duck GM only to be fired when the new guy comes in.
- Have Moor/Taylor make the decision and overpay on years/$$. Coach feels like he is being hired by more permanent part of the org and will outlast the GM change.
- Hire a young hungry guy who just wants one of the 30 NBA jobs in the universe.
Given that #3 is by far the cheapest and requires the least planning, that seems most likely to me. Maybe they could get a guy with a little experience that has been out for a while, like Sam Mitchell or Mussleman. But that would be more $$.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 18, 2011 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
If I had to pick..
…the best possible option of the past 4 years, it would be to hand everything over to Jim Stack. Dude actually was what Kahn was promised to be.
Is he still around?
Last I remember, he was demoted to regional scouting in Chicago or Vladivostok or something because Taylor was too cheap to buy out the last year of his deal? Or maybe I am misremembering.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 18, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Stop-n-Pop for GM!
If Taylor called and said I can only pay you 100K/yr (because I am a cheap ****), but you have total control, would you do it?
by Rubi-OHHHH! on May 18, 2011 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be worth it just to hear...
…Jonah Ballow say, “Excuse me, just one more questions Mr. n-Pop…”
I am confident...
…that I could run this franchise even further into the ground than Kahn. ;) As little as Kahn seems to know about the job, I know even less. I do think the team could crowd source its draft/college scouting operation and do better than Kahn.
I think you could do it
if there were two things. 1st being total control of the team, so as to not be constantly undercut by being over-voted. 2nd you would need to hire a specialist in contracts and capology, to manage and negotiate the contracts $’s and numbers.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on May 20, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Mark jackson
I bet he he stays and Kahn adds a defensive assistant coach. I doubt they change coaches if Rubio is actually coming as well Taylor not wanting to spend more money. How about his assistants? Are all of them going to stay if rambis stays? Sorry for all the questions.
by rickyrubio10 on May 18, 2011 10:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Boy, to be a fly on the wall during that meeting
Agent: So what is your plan with Kurt? If you are not going to retain him, he would like to seek some other opportunities.
Kahn: Well, the season is barely over. We are still trying to process what happened and make sure we don’t make emotional decisions.
Agent: You are aware your season ended almost two months ago? How slow does time move in your world?
Kahn: OK, here is the deal. Noone else wants the job. Taylor cannot convince the minority owners to shell out any money to pay off Kurt’s contract. And I kind of threw Kurt under the bus, so I don’t think he’ll want to return. I’m kind of stuck right now. Plus I have no idea who to draft, and Tony is kind of blinded with the excitement of so many European players to evaluate. Who do you think we should draft? Plus, Ricky told me to go pack sand.
Agent: I’m going to advise Kurt to find an assistant NBA coaching position anywhere else and take a buyout based on that salary. I am not letting him return to such a ridiculous, out of control, unprofessional environment.
Kahn: OK thanks. Things are going to turn around here.
Agent: [Chris Webber voice]Good luck with that.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on May 18, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I see a very awkward kid, who knows he is smart, very excited to be able to make some grown ups laugh.
His pointed inflections remind me of a bad actor trying to underscore poorly written dialogue in the hopes that emphasis will make it better. Of course, it makes it even worse.
This is a good analogy....
…and it reminds me of a college roommate who, now that I think about it, acted a lot like Kahn….albeit with massive amounts of drugs.
On a different note:
You’ve convinced me that I need to rewatch Rashomon tonight.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
I bought the Criterion Collection DVD a while ago.
It hypnotizes me every time I watch it.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on May 18, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I love the Criterion Collection
Hulu Plus has their rights. I’m hoping they expand to everything they’ve released.
That would be amazing.
There are about a hundred movies in the Criterion Collection I’d like to see, but haven’t felt like shelling out the money for.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on May 18, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I started collecting Criterions several years ago...
…nonplussed that they changed available formats to Blue Ray. Good product, but something better always comes out.
Specifically on the quote
The problem isn’t poking fun at the NBA and the lottery, the problem is that he used a grieving widow and sick kid to do so. I myself am happy to make jokes about widows and sick kids, but first, I’m an asshole, and second, if your job involves PR for a business that requires good public feeling, you have to know better than to do that.
On the question of whether there’s a loop that simply reinforces everything clownish and incompetent about Kahn, and nothing can break through it….yeah. He is clownish and incompetent. I do think that the perception is so entrenched that it’s very hard to change, and even good decisions (not that there have been many) can’t escape the vortex. On the other hand, 3 years ago, you could have said the same thing about Chris Wallace. Ultimately, the product speaks for itself. Which leads to:
You have expressed the point I’ve been at for a while: results matter. 32 wins. 2 years. 1 good player. The 2nd pick in a terrible draft. And that’s it. That’s what this franchise is, and it’s what it has. It has become almost impossible to see a way forward for this franchise.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on May 18, 2011 10:03 PM CDT reply actions
And...
they didn’t realize he was a foundational-type player until after they had burned almost all their assets.
Do we know of anyone else besides JaVale McGee?
Kerry Eggers: "There are those who feel Kahn will be a new-wave type of GM along the lines of baseball’s Theo Epstein, and Daryl Morey of the Houston Rockets. Kahn will likely be more of a hybrid, employing a bit of an old-school tact as well."
if they really
called other franchises to trade KLove for some one (any one) long and athletic, and those franchises didn’t jump at the trade, then they are even bigger idiots.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on May 20, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
And yes...
…paid professional PR guys know not to joke about the integrity of their industry…to say nothing of sick kids and dead owners.
Yeah, that's the crux of it.
Anyone lawyer who uses the term “our league” should realize the sensitivity surrounding the subject of a rigged lottery. But he’s so frigging tone deaf and imperceptive that he not only says all this stupid shit, but is then astonished when it isn’t treated like pearls of wit and wisdom.
The good news about this latest gaffe is that if he had any protection from Stern before, it’s now long gone.
I don't do "fanshots."
Oh, and when Kahn does finally lose his job, SnP,
the only appropriate gesture for you is to offer him a position at Canis Hoopus.
I don't do "fanshots."
Tempest in a Teapot
The mood was fun and light. It was a ping pong drawing. Because you expect integrity, it is OK to have some fun. Much to do about nothing. The kid stole the show. David Kahn was just joining in on the fun. A joke was made regarding a ping pong drawing. Let’s not tighten up so much that a little fun can not be had.
Hey SnP
Just want to say great job on both the article and the site in general. I have no idea how I’d be able to choke down this crappy team without CH and this awesome community. Glad you’re back.
Kerry Eggers: "There are those who feel Kahn will be a new-wave type of GM along the lines of baseball’s Theo Epstein, and Daryl Morey of the Houston Rockets. Kahn will likely be more of a hybrid, employing a bit of an old-school tact as well."
by Blakeley on May 18, 2011 10:16 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Seconded.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on May 18, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Thirded
I don’t comment that much, but I read. And you always give us s good read, SnP!
by lurifax on May 19, 2011 2:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Fourthed
If we all started rabidly following and dissecting the ad industry or Korean robo- miniatures or commodity prices, I’d still stop here once a day and kibbitz with y’all.
It’s a great community and SnP, you do a great job leading it.
Fifthed
I don’t post often these days, but I lurk constantly and I appreciate the efforts of all who keep the place ticking.
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
Sixthed
Seriously. As a longtime lurker and occasional snarker, your work is the reason this is the first SBNation site I got into and signed up for. I always hit Canis Hoopus first and check out other stuff afterwards.
You were a daydreamer, a sass-mouth, and, not infrequently, a bit of a gigglepuss. Somehow I doubt twenty years of amphetamines and failure have done anything to improve that.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 19, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Danke
It was time for a break and I was getting crappy with people who posted on the site. I’ll just say this: We had some friends go through some tough times and the medical insurance industry in this country is insane. My best friend was in special forces and he served his country proud. Unfortunately, his family didn’t have (couldn’t afford) (mental) health insurance and instead of using his GI-Bill funded teaching degree (he was going to school for this when his family’s health issues started), he is working at Home Depot hoping Medicare covers his wife’s hospital bills. We now have 6 extra people in the household and a new appreciation for just how tenuous the middle class can be. I also got to find out all about how homes are overpriced/underwater (they bought their home when he got out of the service/right before the market collapsed). Absolute craziness. My take away: help your neighbor as best you can.
by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
It's crazy times...
and a crazy world these days. All we can do is look out for each other. It would be nice if our sports entertainment was entertaining for the sports they played, but it is a relatively minor thing in life. Glad that you took some time for your self. Really glad that you’re back.
by Krotz the Wall on May 19, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks. It really is crazy...
…how quickly you can fall out of the middle class these days. We’re talking 3-4 months from being a 1st year teacher with a home, a steady job (albeit with no family insurance for the first year), and things being in order to having to quit said job, walk away from said home, and depend on Medicaid (not Medicare…typo above) and handouts for bare-bones health care. The big lesson: If you make under 40k (hell, under 60-70k) and you have mental health issues in this country, you are screwed. Absolutely screwed. Medicaid is basically the only thing out there for women and children who have mental health issues and no employer insurance. Depending on what state you live in, things get even trickier. In our friend’s case, their health care “provider” is so overloaded that the care is essentially a triage service. They can’t afford the monthly medication, they can’t go back to work because of child care issues…it goes on and on. They were doing everything right and it all fell apart because of something beyond their control and they will probably never dig themselves out of it. That’s just not right and, after getting to be someone who made a lot of phone calls to providers, county offices, banks, etc during the last few months, I am amazed how often it happens. I’ve learned that everybody is on drugs, there are millions of people with severe mental health issues, and there is literally no support system for people who struggle with these sorts of things.
Blood in the water...
“birther’s” are a perfect comparison. The comments/issue wasn’t as important as the fact that it was a means to an end: Kahn/Obama getting “fired.” Being that we as Timberwolves fans know that epically poor performance is not grounds for dismissal on this team, our only option is to get offended and bent out of shape by comments like these. The same thing happened after the end of the year conference.
All we want is hope that this team might someday be good. If piling on Kahn until he is fired is the first step in that direction, then so be it.
Kerry Eggers: "There are those who feel Kahn will be a new-wave type of GM along the lines of baseball’s Theo Epstein, and Daryl Morey of the Houston Rockets. Kahn will likely be more of a hybrid, employing a bit of an old-school tact as well."
Cuase he is the richest owner in the NBA and he can do what he wants
I actually don’t know if he is the richest or not, but I know he is way up there
Which hurts more, cause we could easily be like the Mavericks and Lakers and just spend into the luxury tax every year, and pay coaches 5 mil a year but everyone is just an idiot
I'm still a birther.
I mean, c’mon, “long form birth certificate”? That’s so made up…
Everything in the computer need my face on it. Mega Gigabytes, son!
following the analogy
Kahn = Trump (who had no idea, when asked, about the concept of ‘right to privacy’ in the Constitution, or didn’t know that his clothing line was made in China after railing on about…China, etc. etc.).
Hopefully that will mean this is the beginning of a final implosion where Kahn takes himself out of the running of anything vaguely resembling basketball.
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on May 18, 2011 10:50 PM CDT reply actions
What’s scary is it’s not a stretch at all to imagine Taylor giving Kahn the reins at least through this summer, meaning unless there’s a change in pattern, one more underwhelming summer and one more mess of a roster.
Maybe then Kahn’s finally let go, but the assets are gone, not even a lotto pick, and Love walks. In other words, rock bottom might not be here until 2013 or so.
...........................there was something --- Really Wierd --- about the whole thing........................
phuckin' machine took my quarter.
by speed-racer on May 18, 2011 11:34 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Owner-GM Combo is an all-timer
This could literally last for decades. Everything is in play at this point including Taylor willing the team to Kahn someday.
Taylor is clearly getting a giant kick out of watching Kahn run this team and just can’t change the channel.
2 Questions.
1) At what point do NBA fans and media stop bashing khan, rambis, or anybody else and start giving Glen Taylor the beating he deserves?
2) What can be done run Taylor off and push him to sell?
(I’ll assume not much at this point, since the seats are already empty and nobody take this fanchise seriously.)
Be careful what you wish for
Taylor has deep pockets to fund some massive losses over the past few years.
There are not many billionaires around to buy the team from Taylor.
See – the L.A. Dodgers
+1
on the deep pockets, if not for Taylor there would be plenty of contraction talk.
And yes…Taylor’s Blame House is 2 doors down, the mob with pitchforks is near.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on May 19, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
The last two seasons have been disappointing.
For me the only realistic material change that will occur during the offseason is the coach. The players were professional in supporting Rambis at the end of the season, but it simply has not worked and there needs to be a change in coaching.
The degree of change is perhaps up for debate, with some suggestion that a defensive specialist will be brought in to support Rambis. If that’s the case, what do the existing assistant coaches do? Not being able to coach half of the game just should be acceptable at this level.
If there isn’t a change, then it’s simply more disappointment and maybe two more wins next year or something equally disappointing.
In terms of the roster I am not convinced that there will be material improvements. There’s nothing to suggest an Iggy level player will be on the roster, by whatever means (FA or trade).
Kahn often talked up being able to take advantage of the CBA, we’ll see.
Does the 2nd pick have much value? See how it plays out I suppose, but it might be worth drafting Williams and giving him a roster spot to see how he performs. Having him or Beasley come off the bench could actually be good. Almost like a team with depth.
If Rubio signs, he is still a rookie and rookies perform like rookies.
Expectations should be based on wins, but I simply don’t see that coming next season. This is the team I support, so entertainment/highlights is a safer way to enjoy next season.
I honestly feel Kahn was fine till he mentions Abe Pollin's widow
For me that’s where he gets into collar tugging time
In watching the video you can pinpoin the exact time he goes from NBA GM to Bill Hicks. It’s the second he hears a slight chuckle from one of the reporters.
Sweet discipline Kahn.
by fanslaststand on May 19, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Props for a Great Write Up
I could feel the soul searching as i read it…
As someone who may be one of the few glasses half full (ok, quarter full) guys on the board, i appreciate that.
all i can say is that, there is still a hat and a rabbit just may be in there.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on May 19, 2011 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed about the hat/rabbit
As we’ve established, it’s a bad idea to project towards best possible outcomes, rather than most likely outcomes.
Having said that, it’s entirely possible that Kahn still pulls a diamond out of his ever-tightening sphincter.
There is a future potential reality where Rubio comes over and is transformation, we land Biyombo and he’s Ben Wallace 2.0, trade for Iggy and get a coach who plays to his personnel’s strengths.
Suddenly, we have a balanced, competitive, entertaining team and David Kahn gets to say “I told you so” for another 5-10 years as PBOB.
Unlikely? Yes.
Possible? Yes.
What are the odds? Probably 20-1 against.
But, as beatsandpeasnyc says, there is still a hat and we have not yet determined there is absolutely no rabbit in it.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
by HumdingerTV on May 19, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Follow Up
Two words: Chris Wallace
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
Wallace appears to have figured out..
…the coaching angle, the culture of winning angle, and cutting losses on a bad pick angle. Imagine hearing something like this from someone in Minny basketball ops:
GC: You signed the contract last week. It’s three years. What do you want to accomplish in three years?
LH: I don’t have any three-year goals. I just want to keep getting better and ultimately winning. I have no time frame on it. I thought we had a good season this year. In my mind, we exceeded expectations across the board. Fans, media, ownership and coaches. I don’t think anybody thought we could make a 16-game jump. We were fortunate that our players came back and got better and then we got Zach Randolph, who gave us a bona fide rebounder and bona fide low post presence. So what we end up doing, we go from 30th in the NBA in rebounding to No. 2. We go from 20th in offensive rebounding to No. 1. We go from 30th in the NBA in points in the paint to No. 1 in points in the paint. So all those things helped because all of that added to more free throw attempts. Our scoring went up from 95 or whatever it was to 102. So being able to score probably gave us an advantage over a lot of teams. It’s probably why we were able to make the huge jump.
Or this:
GC: Let’s go to point guard because that’s one of the positions that people love to argue about. Do you need an upgrade at starting point guard?
LH: No. We need an upgrade in the guy we have. I think he needs to get better and he will. I mean, we look at the playoffs. You start talking about which point guards would you rather have. People have said that to me, and I’m, like, "Mike has had success against all those guys." He’s had great success. It’s just a matter of consistency. My feeling is this, and I’ve said it before, Mike may not be what everybody thinks he should be but we just won 40 games and he was a big part of that. When he was out, we struggled. And until someone comes in there that we draft or just falls in our hands, Mike’s the point guard.
Or this:
There’s a lot of players that come in the league and make everybody keep saying, ’You’re young, you’re young, you’re young.’ And the next thing you know, they’re not young any more and their career is over and they haven’t accomplished what they wanted to… It’s not that you’re young, it’s that you don’t understand. And if you want to understand how to win and do the things that are necessary to win, then you have a chance. It has nothing to do with your age."
Yes you might be a Kahn Birther :(
Judge Kahn by the basketball decisions he makes. It shouldn’t matter that much what he says. He’s put his foot in his mouth more than once. Everyone gets so hung up on it, and yes it has snowballed unfairly I think. Anything he says will be panned by most of the media and disgruntled fans. Judge him by what he does or doesn’t do.
I’d really like to see a list of all the actual basketball decisions he’s made, lined up, and graded. Include a column for grade at the time, and a column for grade as of now. He’s done some good things with cleaning up our bad contracts over the years, and also some bad things. I’d be curious to see how Stop-n-pop or others would grade him.
The usual rant about Kahn (this post doesn’t qualify) is as silly as someone criticizing the Wolves for not drafting (1) Manu Ginobli (almost everyone misjudged him otherwise he would’ve been picked in the 1st round) or (2) Ty Lawson (his projection was right around where he went, and Denver wanted him) or (3) Landry Fields (diamond in the rough of the 2nd round).
A few recent positives imo (so far): (1) The trade for Beasley, (2) The trade for Martell Webster (heard of Luke Babbitt much this year? Martell has been decent if healthy), (3) The trade for Anthony Randolph. (4) Ridnour signing, yep (5) Tolliver signing
Some negatives: (1) Darko contract, ugh (2) Flynn pick, not Curry (btw check out Chad Fords big board: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/index it has Flynn above Curry, hmm). Kinda negative/Unknown: (1) Miller/Foye for #5 → Rubio unsigned…(2) Al Jefferson trade for 2 #1 UTA Picks
We have no idea what possible deals can actually be made, we have no idea what behind the scenes options are available to Kahn, or what he’s turned down. The draft is often a crap-shoot, and it hasn’t worked out for the wolves lately.
Obviously the results of the team is where Kahn should be judged too, and it isn’t good. Based on the wolves point differential and Wins Produced (adv. stat), they should have won about 22 games, which isn’t far off of the preseason prediction (~24) of most analysts. We only won 17, but I do believe the talent we had this year was a 20-25 win team. I’m making this point because I do think we slightly improved from last year.
It may not be enough for some people, but I don’t think it’s an easy thing to turn around a team, and to do it frugally in a league where overpaying is the norm. I’m not happy with the Wolves, but I’m still willing to give Kahn a chance of another season. If we “slightly” improve again, we may actually get to 30 wins next year and it will seem like a decent jump. Lets see how the offseason goes.
I'll tackle a few:
1. Firing McHale as head coach of the Wolves: Decision grade: A Grade for the process by which he did it: D
2. Not hiring a coach prior to his first draft and going it along: Decision Grade: D Result Grade: F
3. Trading Foye & Miller for #5: Decision grade: B +
4. Drafting 2 pgs back to back in the high lottery: Dec grade: F
5. Drafting Johnny Flynn as that second PG: Decision grade D Result Grade: F
6. Trading pick to Denver: Decision grade: B (that Lawson was picked and blew up is immaterial)
7. Hiring Kurt Rambis: Decision grade: C (name rec, veteran, championships, major ? marks & warning signs) Result: F
8. Signing Ramon Sessions: Decision grade: B Result: D (mostly in trading him after misusing him and getting new PG)
9. Micromanaging Roster for space and flexibility: Dec grades: B Result grade: Incomplete put looking like a D
10. Not doing anything at the first trade deadline: Decision grade: F
11. Trying to trade Kevin Love to anyone who would listen: Decision grade: F
12. Drafting Wesley Johnson #4: Decision grade: D (not an F for ‘safety’ of the pick) Result grade: I (but trending to F)
13. Trading pick for Martell Webster: Decision grade: B (good off the bench, back up player)
14. Trading Al Jefferson: Decision grade: B Grade of trade package: C
15. Signing Luke Ridnour: Decision grade: C (fine backup but 4th PG in 1 year, to same contract as Ramon) Result: C
16. Signing Tolliver: Decision grade: B (he’s a great backup player, but doesn’t impact the team much)
17. Trading for Mike Beasley: Decision grade B (good trade, not a lot of work put into it) Result grade: B
18. Only significant move at 2nd trade deadline (supposed last window) was Randolph: Dec grade F (I still like Randolph)
19. End of the season press conference: decision grade: F-
20. Not firing Kurt Rambis already (especially when you have all hope in Rubio): Decision grade: F
Now, you do also have to take into account what kind of image and role Kahn has played as the figurehead of the Wolves franchise. How does he portray the team? How does he represent the team? Will Kahn be the type of franchise leader to attract top FAs, Coaches? Does Kahn instill confidence that he can handle his job professionally and from a well informed and strategic position? Result grade: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFinfinity
So, I would average that up to a job well failed.
by Krotz the Wall on May 19, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Seems harsh imo
Thanks for the response. You give him his credit sometimes, but also give many, many Fs. I’d probably have more incomplete’s in there. We just don’t know what was available at the trading deadlines, and I think we can only really judge him on the deals that were actually made (Webster, Beasley, Randolph, Jefferson, etc.).
I wouldn’t include “trying to trade Love” or the press conference in there since they weren’t bball decisions.
Image wise I’ll agree he’s failed. As much as I may think he gets a raw deal from media types and there’s basically no chance of ever coming back from the image that has been created for him, which counts for something. Probably a D- in my book for that :(
Completely disagree about the contract stuff
Jim Stack did ALL (yes, all) of the heavy lifting in terms of getting the team’s contracts back in order. Kahn has produced exactly zero usable (and used) cap space above and beyond what Stack put in place.
All Kahn meant by the "it's early" comment
was that his desk is literally swamped by stacks of advanced stats output binders that were only generated at the end of the college hoops season (for thoroughness), and he has barely had time to put a dent in those data, seeing how he needs to cross reference it all with the raw Synergy Stats footage. You think this happens overnight?
by dropstep on May 19, 2011 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
A matter of perspective
I get why you guys don’t like Kahn, but frankly nothing he’s ever said offended me more than the Cav’s owner referring to his kid as his “hero.” I posted this over at MPR’s News Cut blog:
I don’t mean to disparage that kid in any way, but I almost threw up when his dad and the sports reporters all called him a hero. He’s not a hero.
You may find him inspirational. His story may touch your life in some significant way. His struggle may make you feel better about some things. None of that makes him a hero, as his struggle is on his own behalf, and does not benefit others.
The truth of the matter is that this child was (with his consent) exploited by his father and the NBA. They did everything but say on camera, “aw, wook at the poor widdle handicapped kid.”
The media have inflated rhetoric like some form of social promotion in which every challenged individual is a hero. What does that make people who save the lives of others? Super heroes? What do you call a person who dies saving another person’s life? A super duper hero?
The kid got a raw deal out of life and is handling it well. That makes him an outstanding individual, one who deserves our respect and admiration. It doesn’t make him a hero or anything like one.
Posted by Mark Gisleson | May 18, 2011 3:32 PM
Kahn may be a moron, but his “joke” about the special needs kid on stage spoke to the truth about the NBA. The NBA is not about sports, it’s about profits and P.R. Fuck the NBA. I think it’s time we put all the sports leagues and the NCAA out to pasture, and replaced them with community-owned teams that would draft locally and strive for excellence first, and money second.
[deleted after giving it further thought]
I thought it was reported that the son was the father’s ‘own personal hero’. I’m sure I’m misremembering a litte but we get to pick our own heros, right?
by fanslaststand on May 19, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
it's inflated rhetoric that demeans those who truly are heroic
hero |ˈhi(ə)rō|
noun ( pl. -roes)
a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities : a war hero.
• the chief male character in a book, play, or movie, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize.
• (in mythology and folklore) a person of superhuman qualities and often semidivine origin, in particular one of those whose exploits and dealings with the gods were the subject of ancient Greek myths and legends.
• (also hero sandwich) another term for submarine sandwich .
But yeah, I’m also the guy that grumbles when they hand out the awards to kids at halftime but seriously, that only pisses me off because they insist on doing it SO LOUDLY. (Don’t get me started on Target center speakers as I sat in the upper level this spring and almost went deaf.)
[deleted after giving it further thought]
I find I’m happiest when I have something to bitch about. Know what I’m talking about?
“ooohhh, can you BELIEVE this guy?! hoooonnkk….hooooonnnkk”
by fanslaststand on May 19, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
You've shown four definitions
and not one of them includes “saving other people” as a prerequisite for being called a hero. I made the same point yesterday, which you clearly don’t buy because you didn’t respond to it and made your same point again here.
I can see how people could think the NBA and ESPN are exploiting the kid, but I just don’t understand criticizing a dad for calling his kid a hero in this circumstance. I don’t think that demeans other people who are heroic in your eyes.
I roll my eyes anytime anyone uses the word "hero."
Unless they’re talking about Hercules. Then I’m cool with it.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on May 19, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
When I want to learn about heroes
I go to the real authority on the matter.
I have growing concerns that being a fan of this team is making me more of a hipster than I ever intended to be.
However, due to our innate hipsterness, it seems that Minnesotans are now "exempt from the label": http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrismenning/the-most-hipster-state-in-the-us
by BrettAhlgren on May 20, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
One day
I’ll have to watch that show.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on May 20, 2011 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll concede it's a slippery concept
but after spending my lifetime wrestling with the English language and all its nuances, I just can’t accept this media phenomenon of hyping the disabled as if congenital disabilities were a good thing.
But at the same time, I find it very cool that lots of high schools have taken to electing developmentally disabled students as their homecoming kings and queens. At the local level I think that’s incredible. On a national stage I find it patronizing and schmaltzy. And on a personal level, I think that kid’s incredibly lucky his dad is wealthy. I suspect his quality of life and achievements would be quite different if he had grown up in a ghetto.
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It's crazy to come back to a thread way after the fact
but this post snapped my argument into focus for me:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/mZPZM51St1c/research-paper-on-he.html
The word I was missing was sacrifice. Being brave doesn’t make you a hero, sacrifice does. What you do for survival isn’t heroic, it’s self-preservation.
Fire fighters are heroes, kids with disabilities aren’t, not unless they put themselves at risk for another, in which case they are then the biggest heroes imaginable.
Not trying to get in the last word here so much as trying to clarify my first words which failed to say what I meant.
[deleted after giving it further thought]
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