Why we shouldn't trade the #2 pick
by VoodooMagic on May 28, 2011 3:55 PM CDT
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Monta Ellis, Andre Igodoua, Tyreke Evans, yes these are all quality players that if they were available they would be a big help to the team. But let's look for an example of what recently traded draft picks go for:
2009: Minnesota trades Randy Foye and Mike Miller for the 5th pick. This was a much strong draft (apparently) and we only had to give up 2 bench players to get this pick
And for the past 5-6 years that is basically it.
here is an example of what trading down a few spots gets you: Bobcats and Clippers 2004
Traded 2004 first round pick (#4-Shaun Livingston), 2004 second round pick (#33-Lionel Chalmers), Bobcats promise to select Predrag Drobnjak in expansion draft to Clippers for 2004 first round pick (#2-Emeka Okafor) on 2004-06-21
So trading down a few spots will net us a 2nd rounder?
I think the idea in principle is okay to trade for a veteran, but who doesn't want to trade for a vet that is in this draft? None of the vet's that are available are going to help us make the playoffs, Monta Ellis? Yeah we will be better and possibly more watchable but we still will only win 30 games, and worst of all that might be enough to save Kahn's job another year.
If anything I think we should try and take advantage of the fact people hate this draft and try and trade back into the top ten. If Miller and Foye could net us a 5th pick Beasley could easily get us into position to draft Burks in the later half of the top 10 (Milwaukee?). Or maybe we try and package Beasley/Johnson to get Enes Kanter and Derrick Williams to pair with Rubio and Love.
I have a hunch this draft won't be as bad as people say it is, I can't prove that, but what I can prove is that history tells us trading draft picks for vet's doesn't happen often, and rarely does it net an elite veteran that will make a difference.
Elton Brand was traded for Tyson Chandler way back 10 years ago and that is the only example I could find of a top 5 pick being traded for a vet that made a difference.
A scary example of this is the Hawks trading Pau Gasol for Shareef Abdur-Rahiem on draft night.....which is exactly what I fear our trade for Monta Ellis will shape out to look like: great guy, solid player, not a difference maker.
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Ray Allen in 2007 turned out well for Boston.
Although I tend to agree that I’m skeptical they’ll land someone who’s worth it, particularly with all the chatter about the spending limits coming down from above.
But who knows either way? A lot can happen.
...so long as they get a real guard
Bad idea
1st off it is widely considered a 2 player draft 2nd off quality has always proven to be more important than quantity in the NBA. So I say it again don’t trade the 2 pick for the 4th and 8th just a horrible idea!
by KD kane on May 29, 2011 4:43 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
It looks like Cleveland nixed this trade .
Fans (especially ticket buyers) have to be considered and It just wasn’t logical that they would see giving up a draft choice just to get rid of a contract as a good move. The owners probably would until the threats to not renew etc. came in. Speaking of owners, Mr. Taylor please light a fire under Kahns Um gluteus maximus to get rid of Rambis and hire a new coach. will Casey and all the best canidates be gone by the time Kahn finally makes his decision. Rambis has zero support from what I can tell. Finally, though I liked the trade as it was, I do not believe Kanter is any where near as certain of a star as Williams. Kanter could have knee problems. Williams played through a broken finger and has moves and a consistent record. I would do the moves because there are guards in this draft who may be solid starters. Maybe not persistant all stars but top ten NBA guards or so.. I don’t buy that Williams can’t play small forward when James and KG and Durant (some of the largest SF) are some of the best. Williams needs to lose weight yes but playing in the NBA he should have no problem. Beasley, I just don’t think will be that good ever. It mayl depends on how much a player will adapts and how fast. Beasley hasn’t done that much in three years even though, he deserves one more.
I think you have it backward
Kahn doesn’t do anything without Taylor’s approval, and if you think Kahn’s the one dragging his feet on this, you’re not looking at this from all angles.
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 30, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
No Offense
But I hope our trade strategy isn’t based of your hunches or irrational fears. Every deal needs to be assessed on its own merits, not whether Brand for Chandler worked out or whether Gasol for Abdur-Rahim didn’t.
You like Derrick Williams. You think he can play small forward, he can’t. Kevin Love should be our Power Forward for the next 10 years. The #2 pick has value in a trade, and the player that most teams would take is a player redundant on this roster.
This isn’t a situation where the team is trading away picks because it wants to commit to veterans, I think its a case where the player with value at #2 is more valuable to other teams than he is for the Wolves so they would be looking to capitalize on that value.
Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.
by Ebomb on May 29, 2011 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
You need to look at each situation individually and what is best for the team. It’s a simple value equation as stated above. You can hand pick several different past scenarios to make an argument for doing just about anything with the #2 pick. The point is we have certain needs and we should be valuing the #2 pick based on where we want to go as a franchise.
For example, perhaps Derrick Williams does turn out to be an all-star caliber player in 3-4 years. But if we lose Love to free agency in the mean time, after he gets frustrated about having to play with more rookies next year, does that help us? No. We will have replaced one all-star caliber PF for another. And I do think Williams would struggle mightily at the 3, just like Beasley struggles at the 3, Wes J struggles at the 2 and Ant Randolph would get demolished at the 5. I am one who believes position matters quite a bit in the NBA.
Other teams will value the #2 pick based on their needs, and it is quite possible that several other teams will value our #2 pick more than we will, which makes exploring trades justified based on the value of the pick for us. But using the #2 pick on a redundant player who will have a slim chance to develop into an above-average NBA player in 2-4 years is not what we need right now IMO.
You're missing the point of my argument
Every year people are hoping to trade the pick for a veteran, and it is mentioned as something half o the teams in the top 8 should do. It is even more so this year with the alleged lack of talent in the draft.
It is like how in the NFL every team wants to move back and get picks because that’s what the Patriots and Packers have essentially done for years, valuing the high pick less than the quantity of picks they could get. Every NFL fan wants their team to move down and collect picks, and every year a team in the thin part of the draft (generally 4-9, but this year it’s up in the air when the thin part actually starts) and how many trades do we actually have accounted for? Draft day trades involving veterans in the last 10 years I am counting 4: Mike Miller/Foye 2009, Ray Allen 2007, Elton Brand 2001, Abdur Rahiem 2000.
So of the 100 teams that were in the top 10 in the past ten years, 4 of them were capable of pulling off a draft day trade for a veteran, only 1 of those trades was able to net a legit All-Star and that All-Star was unable to lead any team on his own to playoff success.
How is this irrational? It seems pretty based in fact that it is A) Really tough to make a deal like this happen and B) The type of player that is often available in these types of trades is hardly worth the trouble
So wait
This thread isn’t related to the 2 for 4 and 8 rumor? Alright.
If it wasn't for Jordan Farmar and that guy Kevin Love, I would've killed somebody!
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