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Anxiety about Jonas V rising...

11 months ago Images_tiny jianfu 14 comments 0 recs  | 

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If we do trade back from 2...

which seems likelier and likelier, I would have absolutely no problem taking Jonas V and sitting on him for a year.

Does it suck not getting an immediate high level young guy? Sure does. BUT! Adding Jonas V next year would be equivalent to getting a first rounder (CLIPPERGEDON), and I personally think he’s clearly a top three big in this draft. In fact, I see him as the overall best big right now in the draft, with BB and Kanter following (depending on whether you like offense, defense, or athleticism more).

Posted yesterday:

Situational Statistics: the 2011 Big Men Crop
June 21, 2011
     Jonas Valanciunas is an extremely intriguing prospect at 18-years old, but one of the reasons scouts like him so much is how efficient he was in the role he played for Rytas this season. In many ways, he’s a clean slate, with some good habits that could serve him well in his development.
     The young center played with a proficiency that belied his age, ranking amongst the top players in this group of bigmen in a number of different categories, including overall points per-possession (1.178, #1). Though it is important to note that he posted that mark in fairly small role (7.9 Pos/G), it ranks him well ahead of every prospect in this study, and 7th overall amongst all players in Europe.
     Though it would be easy to point to Valanciunas’s size, length and touch as the driving factors behind his efficiency, the young Lithuanian excels in a few key areas. His terrific effort level and hands made him a terrific pick and roll finisher. [Isn’t this what we’re excited about with Yombo?] When Valanciunas was on the court for Rytas, he was asked to play hard and spend a considerable amount of time setting screens out on the perimeter. Roll man situations accounted for nearly a quarter of his touches (2nd) and he scored on an absurd 73% of his possessions when catching the ball rolling to the rim. This ranked him 3rd in this category behind Tristan Thompson and Kenneth Faried, who saw less than 2% of their offensive possessions in this manner, a far cry from Valanaciunas’ 23.2%. Cuts also played a substantial part of his offense (20%), and he converted nearly a point and a half per opportunity (3rd) here as well.
     Breaking down Valanciunas in the halfcourt, his ability to finish the touches he sees around the rim is a big part of his overall efficiency. Nearly 82.2% of Valanciunas’s shots come around the basket in finishing situations, the most among all the big men in our sample, and he made 68% of those attempts last season (5th). A big target moving off the ball and a threat to score on the offensive glass, it is safe to say that Valanciunas thrived on catch and finish chances. [How is this not exactly what we want to see out of our center?]
     In terms of his ability to score one-on-one, Valanciunas has plenty of room for growth on paper. Seeing a meager 1.3 possessions per-game in the post (3rd last), and zero in isolation situations, Valanciunas wasn’t asked to score with his back to the basket last season, especially in EuroLeague play. Part of the reason for that was his propensity to turn the ball over after receiving an entry pass, which he did at a 29% rate (1st). He flashed some basic post-moves in junior play, but still needs to develop a go-to-move and improve his physical strength. Additionally, Valanciunas attempted only 8 (of 427 total possessions) jumpers all season, although the fact that he did convert on 5 of those and shot 80% from the free throw line leaves some room for optimism.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jonas-Valanciunas-5622/#ixzz1Q1RoCp5G
http://www.draftexpress.com

Compare the finishing at the rim part of Val’s writeup with Biyombo’s:

Overall, Biyombo ranks last in this group in points per-possession at 0.86 [to Val’s 1.178], primarily because he didn’t finish at the rim at a high rate and turned the ball over frequently. Like Valanciunas, Biyombo saw more than 80% of his shots at the basket, but he finished them at a 12% lower rate, making just 56.1% of them last season [to Val’s 68%]. He also turned the ball over on 25.8% of his half court possessions [Val’s biggest TO percentage is on entry passes], the highest mark in this group, showing that, despite his ridiculously large hands, he struggled to hold onto the ball in traffic at times. Considering this was Biyombo’s first taste of high level basketball, it isn’t surprising to see a player with so many physical tools, still struggle.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Situational-Statistics-the-2011-Big-Men-Crop-3761/#ixzz1Q1ShroR2
http://www.draftexpress.com

Finally, defensively (on Val):

Valanciunas is a major presence in the paint with his terrific size and length. His mobility helps him out quite a bit as well. He can contest shots around the rim and has good timing for blocking shots, even if he’s not what you would call a high-flyer. With that said, he’s not the smartest, most reactive player you’ll find right now, especially on the perimeter, which can lead to some poor rotations and open shots for opponents. Interestingly enough, even when you see him getting beat at times outside the paint he still has the ability to recover and make a play at the rim, which is a testament to his foot speed and wingspan.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jonas-Valanciunas-5622/#ixzz1Q1TtkW7B
http://www.draftexpress.com

A legit sized center who’s aggessive, has a bit of a nasty streak, and lies somewhere in the mid point defensively between Biyombo and Kanter. Offensively he’s arguably no worse than equal to Kanter, and perhaps better, and is RIGHT NOW everything we hope Biyombo will develop into as an offensive weapon. He can run, he can finish…and he turned 19 last month.

Book it.

by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jun 22, 2011 11:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Yeah... he might be my favorite player in the draft.

Val is an awesome prospect. I really don’t think that his unavailability next season is a big deal either. He isn’t a finished product, so why rush getting his rookie deal going for a likely shortened season? He clearly wants to come to the NBA, so we don’t need to worry about a Vasquez situation. Additionally, we already have our rookie for this season, but we won’t next year as things are now. It seems beneficial in terms of future cap management to stagger the contracts our possible franchise players.

The only thing Biyombo really has on him is an engaging personality and a special mystique built around his freakish physical specs. We should all know better than to let that guide our judgement.

by vjl110 on Jun 22, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

But I think there’s ZERO chance the Wolves draft him. Buyout fatigue, and I don’t think they (Kahn in particular) has a long enough leash to stomach it.

Here’s my wacky scheme (without any knowledge of trade offers):

1) Draft Jonas V at #2. Don’t get cute and move down, because in this draft there aren’t a lot of great alternatives in case you go too far down. Also, #2 salary will only help in his buyout. Drafting him at #2 would certainly be controversial by the talking heads (and many fans), but I think there’s more than enough objective evidence suggesting it’s the correct move.

2) Draft Mirotic at #20. Pelton sees him as a Batum-type.

3) Make a salary-neutral deal for Iggy.

4) Sign T-Mac in FA with a promise for starter’s minutes.

Near term lineup:

Rubio
T-Mac
Iggy
Love
Randolph

Future

Rubio
Iggy
Mirotic
Love
Jonas V

That’s fun both now and in the future.

...so long as they get a real guard

by jianfu on Jun 22, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Honestly...

that is by far the most appealing scenario I could imagine. It hits on all of my wants: Iggy, Val, T-Mac, I haven’t thought a ton about Mirotic, but I have a very favorable impression of him.

I’ll cosign on that offseason plan in a heart-beat.

by vjl110 on Jun 22, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

The real kicker is that some in the Assn. still don’t think it’s definite Jonas is out for ’11-12. The Euro contract? It can be amended.

Somebody named Scott Howard-Cooper.

Wacky Scheme: Jonas V. at #2, Mirotic at #20, Iggy via trade, T-Mac via FA

by jianfu on Jun 22, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

I’m not convinced he’ll be the shot blocker that BB can be but I do believe he’ll be a more than serviceable rim protector and solid offensive option by his second or third year. In short I would have no problem drafting him at #2 but I would prefer to deal back and then pick him.

by zebano on Jun 22, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope

this is the case.

Glad to hear that you like him, vjl110, as he seems like the kind of guy this team should be targeting. I don’t think he’ll ever be an elite defender, but I think the potential in his offensive game is enormous. A long term center rotation of Val and AR would be pretty intriguing, especially on a running team with Ricky as point.

For me one thing that doesn’t get talked about enough is that rarely do you find complete, high level two way players – guys like KG, Tim Duncan, or Kobe. We’ve also seen how big of a difference in the current NBA a high level defensive assistant can make on a team. Looking at our team I am wondering more and more if maximizing the offensive talent and efficiency nets a larger gain initially in wins and competitiveness, and that focusing on defensive development becomes a 2-3 year project – does that make sense?

I guess my point is that unless you’re convinced that Biyombo is a Mutumbo, Rodman, Olajuwan caliber defender, is it still worth it to draft him when the identity of the team strongly points to being a high tempo, transition oriented, and, dare I say, high-efficiency one? They’re clearly all in on Rubio…and Love…and AR…and maybe Beasley and Wes… Ask yourself – what unites these players together? Is it their defensive potential? Let me put it a different way – in what way can these players come together to be a difficult matchup for any team to play?

It’s easy – offensively they could wreak havoc. Love’s already a great scorer and shooter, incredibly opportunistic. Ricky excels at finding the open man and attacking defenses the second they rotate away from a guy. Watch out if he can hit .350 from deep. Randolph and Beasley are still potentially high level scorers with an athletic/length advantage to each put up 16 ppg a night. Wes still has a great shot and legit range and efficiency from deep. We’ve been through this before so many times that I’ll stop rehashing the potential positives again. For me I get very excited about adding a guy like Val who could be our high energy, production oriented center with a nasty streak – a guy who yearns to take and earns taking 10-12 shots a night at a .600 fg%.

by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jun 22, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes I fully agree.

But comparing him to Dwight Howard come on . I mean Howard can’t even make free throws. Meanwhile, poor Derrick gets compared to JJ.Hickson who averages just 18 and 11 in 36 minutes but never shot a 3 in college and shoots just 67? from the free throw line. Hickson of course is still just 22.

by mr.sorbet on Jun 22, 2011 12:06 PM CDT reply actions  

The Howard comp

just tells me that there aren’t a lot of players as young as Val who are as productive, especially at that position. It’s kind of like Love and rebounding – what other NBA player has his physical profile and has been that good at rebounding at such a young age?

by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jun 22, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Pelton notes the age thing is tough to get around with him (there are simply so few players who have done what Jonas V has at that age).

He notes when you try to analyze him by moving back from relying on age a little bit, he puts out a strong Tyson Chadler vibe. Fine by me.

Wacky Scheme: Jonas V. at #20, Mirotic at #20, Iggy via trade, T-Mac via FA

by jianfu on Jun 22, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

V for victory thats for me.

I don’t even want to hear about a big bust called BB.

by mr.sorbet on Jun 22, 2011 12:08 PM CDT reply actions  

FWIW

if you use Hollinger’s euro-translator stats numbers, Jonas V’s production in 30 minutes of playing time would be:
11.5 ppg, 12.8 reb/g, .616 fg%, and a PER of 18.1.
Per36:
13.8 ppg, 15.4 reb/g

by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jun 22, 2011 1:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Not bad...

But anytime you can draft a guy who’s played two games, or another tweener forward to pair with the 17 tweeners already on the roster, or trade the pick for an enormous guy with tricky knees, you gotta do it.

Wacky Scheme: Jonas V. at #2, Mirotic at #20, Iggy via trade, T-Mac via FA

by jianfu on Jun 22, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

If San Antonio is trying

to get an early lottery pick to draft JV, me thinks the guy is worth waiting a year or two for.

by O-Train on Jun 22, 2011 1:51 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

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