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Phoenix Trade?


Hey guys, there has been a ton of trade discussion regarding the #2 pick both here on CH and over at BSotS. Apparently PHX is one of the 11 or so teams inquiring about trading for the #2. There have also been rumors thrown out about PHX being interested in Jonny Flynn. I just thought I'd drop by and guage Minnesota's interest in what PHX has to offer. I'll just post the roster here and make a few comments about some of the players.

Star-divide

Marcin Gortat, C - Gortat is likely PHX's best trade chip, but he's also the first good C PHX has had in, well, forever. There has been heated debate on BSotS whether the #2 pick would be worth shipping out Gortat. He is on a pretty reasonable contract for the production he provides.

Robin Lopez,C - Lopez was terrible last year after suffering through an injury that stole his explosiveness and his confidence. He had serious mental and physical hurdles to face, and didn't do so well. But he's still a 22-year-old 7-footer who has shown flashes of potential that could make him an intriguing piece in any trade discussions. He's still being paid rookie money.

Garret Siler - UDFA project.

Channing Frye, PF/C - Channing belongs in PHX. He fits the system perfectly and showed big improvement last year. I don't see him having enough value to other teams to make any deal worth it for PHX. He just signed a new deal.

Hakim Warrick, PF - Ugh. I'm sure he has very little value. He can do one thing well and one thing only (at least consistently) - dunk the ball. The problem is he is very skinny, a bad rebounder, and a terrible defender. Most PHX fans want him gone. 2-3 years left on his deal for ~$4 mil/yr.

Gani Lawal, PF - Gani played very well in the SL, and played decently in his stretches in the D-League. He was a mid-2nd round pick, but he was once talked about as a lottery pick and most thought he'd go late first-early second. He has some developing to do, but I think he'll be a good rotation player. You don't really need even a developmental PF though (unless you want to give us AT? Huh? What do you say?).

Josh Childress, SF - I am a Chilly apologist. I really think there is a role for him on this team and I love the way he plays. He is a tough rebounder with a nose for the ball (especially on the offensive glass), he is a good defender, and is a pretty good ball-handler. But he just didn't fit into the PHX rotation last year, or at least Gentry didn't make room for him. He does have a fairly sizable contract, though, which hurts his value. But those of you who saw the PHX-MIN game in April saw some of what he can do, and if you didn't here you go.

Jared Dudley, SF/SG - I absolutely love Dudz and it would be extremely difficult to convince me to give him up. He showed a lot of improvement this year - slimming down, improving his handles, and adding a mid-range jumper to his arsenal - plus he still gives you the hard-nosed defense and solid 3PT shooting. He's on a very good contract, which was just extended this year.

Vince Carter, SG - Vince's nickname on BSotS (among many others) was Half-Man-Half-Retired. He really did not do much for most of the year. But he has an interesting quasi-expiring contract. He is set to make ~$18 mil next year in the final year of his deal, but the team can pay him ~$4 mil to just leave.

Mickael Pietrus, SG/SF - Pietrus is a very good defensive wing with zero conscious. If he catches it in the corner with even an inch of space, he's launching it. He didn't shoot all that well last season either. But he has been an important piece on playoff teams and isn't a bad player. He has a player option for this year (which I'm expecting him to pick up) but after that he comes off the books.

Zabin Dowdell, PG - D-League 3rd string PG.

Steve Nash, PG - I'm against trading Steve almost at all costs. There is nothing the Wolves have, including the #2 pick, that would make me want to tarde Nash. He's still producing at an incredibly high level and I would be surprised if that doesn't continue for another 1, 2, 3 years. But his contract expires after next season.

And then there's the #13 pick in this year's draft.

Is there anything here you guys would want? Is there anyone on your roster that you think would fit well in PHX (don't try to BS me here; I've been here all year and seen many of these players).

Comment 119 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Comments

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Gortat would be the Chip

A swap of 13/Gortat for 2/Darko would get it done.

"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"

by Jose Cordoba on Jun 7, 2011 5:10 PM CDT reply actions  

I would love to co-sign this trade.

Hell… we can even be gentlemanly about it and throw in Flynn. No extra charge.

by vjl110 on Jun 7, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is interesting, but scary.

The reason for moving up to 2 presumably would be to take Derrick Williams and play him at PF. How would a Darko-Williams frontcourt work out in a P&R offense? Does Darko have any P&R ability at all? And how does D-Will translate as a screen-and-roller? If he can be great in that role then Channing Frye can play the majority of minutes at C. But then that wrecks our slowly improving defense. I don’t know about this…

As for Jonny, do you think PHX would be a better environment for him?

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes a much better environment

He was the worst player in the NBA last year. It was a combination of injury, loss of mojo and terrible fit with coach and system. In Phoenix he’s got a more defined role and is playing toward his strengths with a PnR system. Provided he’s healed up he’s fast and has decent shooting range. Also you wouldn’t need him to contend for a starting spot and would pair him with someone who could show him how BB is really played. I would like to see him on the Suns for his own sake.

by Airete on Jun 7, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

A strong mentor

who leads by example and allows him to come off the bench? Best case scenario for JF moving forward.

by TheH on Jun 8, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

13 is lower than I would want to trade down to

Maybe a three way

Min: #8 + Gortat
Pho: #2 + #20 + Darko + Hamilton
Detroit: #13 + Carter + Flynn

I like Gortat, I just don’t think he alone provides enough value to move down 11 spots in the draft. I’m sure others will disagree.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 5:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Ya

moving to 13 gurantees us not getting anybody we want

Wolves fan in Ohio

by UNC44 on Jun 7, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Then give me a different asset besides #13

I like Gortat, I don’t mind trading #2, I just don’t like #13 at all. No Biyombo, No Burks, picking players like Thomposn, the Morris twins, or the Jimmer, not enough value. I would rather just sit tight at #20 and pick whoever falls like a Selby or Brooks.

The #2 + Darko for Gortat + Something besides #13 is a framework I could agree to, just want soemthing else with value besides Gortat.

Gortat had a usage rate of 11.0 similar to the Birdman or DeAndre Jordan. If he used more posessions, I have serious doubts he maintains his efficiency. A nice player for sure, but I’d rather roll the dice on Biyombo and let him be a low usage rate defender at the Center spot.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Like, should we really value Gortat much more than a guy like Omer Asik. Both players have nearly identical usage rates and rebound rates. Asik turns it over a lot more, but when they both use so little possessions, should the difference in turnover rate and shooting for the limited amount of possessions both players use be enough to justify valuing Gortat as even value with the #2 pick?

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gortat was a beast running the P&R with Nash during the second half of the season.

He got a lot better at finishing around the rim and also developed a nice little jump shot out to 17 feet. But he doesn’t really have much of a post game to speak of outside of getting good position and finishing over the top.

It all depends what you’re looking for. Gortat is perfect for PHX, but if he isn’t involved in P&Rs his offensive value drops a lot. He is a very good passing big man though, and could work out in the Frankenstein triangle.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

The vlaue battles become is Gortat more valuable than the #2 overall pick and whether Darko is more valuable than the #13 pick. I probably say No-No, just due to the players that I believe to be available at #13 knowing we would still have #20.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

#10 in the league P&R man

according to synergy.

I imagine at least some of that is credit to Nash.

by vjl110 on Jun 7, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

It absolutely is.

Nobody sets you up better than Nash. But like I said, he really improved his overall finishing ability as the season went on.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's not signed to a lifetime deal, is he?

Second-rounders always have short deals.

The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman

by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 7, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

He’s one of my post CBA keep an eye on guys. If there is a hard cap free agency could become a game of very few players.

by Airete on Jun 8, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess I view salary dump as a big asset

That is every bit as important as the #13. We spent a lot of money on Pek, Darko, and Webster last offseason. Unless Webster stays healthy and Pek gets a lot better this year, that is misplaced money. Dumping some of that would allow us to play in the free agent market. In the end it will end up looking like #2 + Darko for Gortat + #13 + ""Afflalo"" (feel free to pick some other free agent at position of need)

by vjl110 on Jun 7, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trading #2+Darko for #13+Gortat is essentially salary neutral over the next three years.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah...

I realized that after I posted. Oops.

I guess I just like Gortat a lot more than you do. I don’t see him upping his usage, but I don’t think he needs to. I also really like have a guy that is under a good contract for three years during his prime. No development, just a guy that is ready to be a legit starting center.

  1. to #13 might be too much, but I still like it. I’m also partial to Dudley (another guy on a wonderful contract) and Childress (not a good contract, but I like his game) and could be easily sold if we use one of them to balance our roster.

by vjl110 on Jun 7, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

None of these guys are bad trade targets

I just don’t see them individually as being worth the #2 pick and I don’t want to trade potential quality for known quantity.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gortat is very good

Seems almost certain to me that he’s better than the 2nd pick will ever be, but YMMV

The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.

by Eric in Madison on Jun 7, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good Rebounder, average defender, efficient scorer with an extremely low usage rate. He’s alright, clearly an average to above average starting center, but nothing special. I hope your pessism in the assessment of the draft isn’t causing you to overrate established mediocrity.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

The thing with Centers in the NBA though

there are so few good ones. If you can get one you have an advantage over all but about 7 teams in the NBA

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's spot on.

However, he’s also a great leader, has got a ton of heart and will improve. He’s not injury prone either.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 7, 2011 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would rather just trade for Mcgee

even if it’s straight up for the pick. I think I would still rather do it.

Gortat is nice, but Idk even if we got the 13 (in a bad draft) if he’s worth the 2nd pick.

I still think we should be harping Washington to try and pull a

2+something else (Bealsey/Randolph/Johnson) for 6/Mcgee. I really think that is the best trade possible we could get involving the 2nd pick

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd much rather have Gortat than McGee

not even close.

The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.

by Eric in Madison on Jun 7, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Explian?

It seems to me, from someone who hasn’t broken down film of either player, but has casually watched them and followed their stats. that they are similarly productive (10, 8, 2 and 17 PER) but even if Gortat is currently the better player McGee’s upside is a lot greater being 4 years younger.

What do you see as to why you’d rather have Gortat?

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

McGee

Makes a lot more mental mistakes and his court awareness is poor. The fact he is still productive is a sign of his elite athleticism. Gortat isn’t as athletic and won’t make the wow plays that McGee makes, but is more consistent in making the right play. I agree with EiM in that I would rather have Gortat.

Another big plus is that Gortat is signed for the next three seasons wheras McGee has to be extended at the same time as Love, Beasely, Randolph, etc.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

the contract is a plus, let me counter you

would you rather have Mcgee/6 or Gortat/13?

13 we probably can’t get Burks and def can’t get BB. Where as 6 if we could get Burks we would quickly round the roster out fast.

If I were Gm I would hire a better coach and dice the potential of McGee. Like JVG, since Jackson’s been hired as a coach maybe he wants to get back in the game and teach a young post how to be a money defender

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

We already have several players like McGee on the team

Very young, Extremely low BB IQ, A lot of potential (i.e. unproven). I live in DC and watch too many Wizard games. If you would take a slightly less bad Ryan Hollins over Gortat than fine. But I pray to my personal God that David Kahn doesn’t feel the same as you

On the other hand, there was that game last year when the Wiz were down 18 in the 4th and McGee took it upon himself to get the 2nd most embarrassing triple double in NBA History (Hi Ricky Davis!). Yeah, that was fun…

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-JaVale-McGee-gets-first-triple-double-em?urn=nba-334203

"C'mon, c'mon, the club is open" - Bob Pollard

by Son of Gerald Green on Jun 7, 2011 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

At least he completed the triple double.

Unlike his teammate, Andray Blatche.

And your post is incredibly ironic considering your name ;-)

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

McGee does rock an 18 PER

Which can be a little overblown for post players I understand, but that’s not something to compare to Ryan Hollins.

by VoodooMagic on Jun 8, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Both Fair Points Omaha and Voodoo

Omaha: I know, but that’s my Dad, not me – btw, Dad is currently pulling down a nice 11 & 3 for Krasnie Krilya Samara in the Russia League and has plans to take the NBA by storm around 2015 when he reaches his full potential

Voodoo: I’ve watched McGee 80 times last year. Believe me, I know about his high PER rate on a really bad team, he also is incredibly frustrating when insisting on dribbling the length of the court on a fast break while waving John Wall out of the way. Over and over and over. The Wolves are not the right team for him and he’s not the right player for the Wolves. This may be one time where the PER rate is not indicitive of his skill set

"C'mon, c'mon, the club is open" - Bob Pollard

by Son of Gerald Green on Jun 8, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not the right team?
he also is incredibly frustrating when insisting on dribbling the length of the court on a fast break while waving John Wall out of the way. Over and over and over.

Sounds like the ideal front court pairing with our own Anthony Randolph.

If you’re going to run out a two PG lineup, why not make them 7-footers?

by dropstep on Jun 8, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And on every third possession, just let Luke...

…make it rain with 23.8 seconds left on the shot clock.

We might know something of frustrating possessions. Pick a player on the team, and most of us will have some gripe about their game.

by Boss10 on Jun 8, 2011 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

In fairness Luke hit more than 40% of those.

We might have won more games if we just stayed back on D every 3 or 4th possession and let Luke take the ball up and launch 30 plus 3’s early in the shot clock while the opponent is waiting for the Wolves to meander down the court.

My biggest problem with Luke’s threes was when we were ahead and should have been milking the clock. Otherwise fire away.

by Airete on Jun 9, 2011 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Now what if we did this

Gortat and 2012 first round pick

Suns will probably be a worse team in 2012 and the draft theoretically could be better

Pick 13 in this draft does little for me

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stealing Eric in Madison's proposal
My trade is #2, Beasley, and Darko for 13, Gortat, and Dudley. I don’t want to get back into the Beasley thing here, so I’ll just say that I prefer Dudley to him, but if you don’t, that part of the trade could be left out.

What say you Omaha?

by vjl110 on Jun 7, 2011 5:32 PM CDT reply actions  

I definitely would not trade Beasley for Dudley.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I expressed my misgivings about the Darko-2 for Gortat-13 deal above.

And Dudley is one of my favorite players. I feel about the same as many of you do about Beasley.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

So how good is Dudley?

Is he really that much better than Beasley?

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, of course not.

Dudz is the perfect role player. He can start, come off the bench and be productive either way. Great, consistent shooter from 3 regardless of playing next to a scorer that demands double teams. He can change a game with his hustle. He’s a good defender, not elite though. He’s got a high Basketball IQ, knows his limits and doesn’t try to do more than he can. “He’s got an old-man’s game” according to Eddie Johnson. Great personality, great with the fans and teammates. You can always count on him to work hard. He’s got a lot of heart and has shown and continues to expand and improve his game. He’s 26. The only knock on him is that he’s probably the most nonathletic player in the NBA. He’s best as a 4rth or 5th starter on a contending team, but if he’s coming off your bench than your team is going to be really good.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 7, 2011 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dudley is on an awesome contract as well...

Rubio
Wes
Dudley
Love
Gortat

Would have to be in competition for the most selfless, good decision making starting lineup in the NBA.

by vjl110 on Jun 7, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

If only we could get James Harden

Rubio/Harden/Love was a trio made in heaven

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

So why don't we do this:

Beasley and Randolph for Dudley and 13

13/Johnson/2 for McGee and 6

draft Alec Burks

Rubio
Burks
Dudley
Love
McGee?

everyone wins? Except Kurt Rambis cause he will have no more excuses

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I were you guys, I wouldn't do that.

Beasley has got star potential and stars are always greater than role players.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 7, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do like Beasley

But I’ll admit there is still is a giant question mark around him

I’m curious to see what a full year playing 3 will do for him.

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been suggesting this for weeks

It’s my favorite deal for the 2nd pick that I can come up with that the other team might actually do.

The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.

by Eric in Madison on Jun 7, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I bet we could get McGee

either for the 2 straight up, or some bigger deal involving their 6th pick.

If that were the case what would you say to that?

2/Beasley/Flynn/Webster (or some combination like that) for 6/Mcgee: draft Burks/Biyombo?

McGee would be my preference, and considering Washington’s interest in the pick I think it "could’ happen

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well for starters you could still draft Biyombo at 6

2.) McGee is proven that he belongs in the NBA, the level of which is debatable but he is playing in the best league in the world right now and Byiombo isn’t.

3.) McGee is a legitimate 7 foot, with 7’6 wingspan (what’s BB?) and excellent athleticsim.

Byiombo probably has strength on him, but after that I can’t see too many areas where Byiombo’s potential is overly great than McGee’s and McGee is already getting reps against the best post players in the world?

Can’t say I’m a scholar on either, but offensively McGee is shooting 55 FG% which in comparison to what I’ve read about BB’s offensive game sounds like a good place to start.

And also Mcgee didn’t come out of nowhere 3 months ago, he’s been an up and coming prospect for a few years. Which doesn’t mean Biyombo won’t be good, but I would personally be a lot more confident running McGee at C next year than BB

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

And then the rookie deal debate

that’s legit.

However IF (not saying he is or isn’t) if McGee is the better player and will be the better player, does it matter?

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

4) It's not like we're bringing in any free agents

Our best chance of putting our salary cap to good use, is sign the players we have in house. So we’re gonna have to use the cap money on someone.

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to get my hands on

either Dudley or Pietrus. I actually forgot about Pietrus, but he’d be a good role player to stick next to Love and Rubio. I’d really like to get a high flying C and a ball handling SG if this was the case.

, said Mplax.

by Mplax on Jun 7, 2011 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Beasley straight up?

I feel that’s pretty fair. Phoenix only needs 1 of the 2 and they could use some upside

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or hell Randolph straight up

one of Randolph/Beasley/Johnson should get it done

by VoodooMagic on Jun 7, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd actually rather keep Randolph around

I feel like he’s a guy that Rubio and Love will make look good. Raise his value back up a bit and then trade him.

I’d be ok trading Beasley for Dudley, but probably not Pietrus. I’d rather just roll with Martell and hope he stays healthy, I guess.

, said Mplax.

by Mplax on Jun 7, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be fine trading Peaches for Johnson, Beasley, or Randolph.

I like him, but he’s preferably the odd man out in our rotation if we can get a good SG. I’d like to see Chilly ahead of him on the depth chart.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't
I’d be fine trading Peaches for Johnson, Beasley, or Randolph.

:-p

Like I said/implied, Martell and Pietrus are kind of the same type of player. It’s just that Pietrus has been slightly more reliable than Webster. I would only throw Pietrus in a multiple player trade and I wouldn’t be willing to give up too much for him.

And I just got really weird de ja vu for some reason…

, said Mplax.

by Mplax on Jun 8, 2011 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Things change

http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/4/22/1436721/marcin-gortat

My fanpost last year on trading for Gortat while with the Magic. Last year no one wanted him and now he’s worth a steep drop in the draft.

by Blond Ricky on Jun 7, 2011 5:52 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

It looks like the PHX management agreed with you.

I think getting Gortat was the number 1 objective in that deal. Ditching Turkoglu was number 2.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

I didn’t realize quite how good he is at that time.

The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.

by Eric in Madison on Jun 7, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Me neither.

I’m glad that worked out.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's exactly

what I was pining for as well.

Can we make stupidity more painful?

by nodnarb on Jun 7, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is anybody interested in a link to the discussions on BSotS? And should I invite some more Bright-Siders over to get a wider variety of opinions?

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 5:56 PM CDT reply actions  

Sure

I just went over there and read the Gortat for 2 thread (at least skimmed it), but they won’t let me post for a day after signing up. Most seem against it, which I can understand, but you can tell them that it seems very unlikely that a trade can get done without Gortat. The Wolves aren’t trading 2 for Nash. Or Lopez et. al.

Look, I get why people wouldn’t want that trade on both sides, and that’s fine. But you can’t get the 2nd pick without some pain. It’s gotta be Gortat.

The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.

by Eric in Madison on Jun 7, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Plus Lopez could still recover and be a solid Center

Lopez had a nice rookie year then encountered setbacks last season. Here’s to hoping he’s had a great offseason and that Phoenix management feels like he could fill the Gortat void (not completely, but enough to make it worth trading him for Williams).

by Rascal Flatts on Jun 7, 2011 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jonny and Robin had very similar seasons.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh no

Believe me, Robin’s season towers over Flynn’s. Jonny Flynn was so bad at the end of the year, he’d jog the ball up the court and launch a 3-pointer….then do it again the next time down…..and again. He did this on purposely to piss off Rabmis and get pulled from the game (which in a way was fun to see him give Rambis a big F-You).

Flynn for Nash anyone?

Anyone?

Hello?

by Rascal Flatts on Jun 7, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, at least Jonny was being terrible on purpose.

Robin couldn’t help it. Near the end of the season he got bumped for Garrett Siler, a pudgy guy who played in China last year.

It really was painful to watch how ineffective he was.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 8, 2011 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that is the reason Jonny was worse

he never got bumped for Sebastian Telfair. And boy would that have been an upgrade (actually, our ‘hot streak’ came at the time Bassy was running the show)

, said Mplax.

by Mplax on Jun 8, 2011 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Eh, no.

I’m fine with trading Robin, but only if it’s part of a move to get our guy. I certainly do not want to give him away, especially to rid you of Darko’s contract. We’ve seen as much out of Darko as we’re ever going to at this point. Robin, although really messed up, still has plenty of potential and is on his rookie deal.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 8, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Discussion Probably isn't a good idea

Some pretty awful and lopsided trade proposals at your board. Tough to get a deal done when any contributing player on the Suns roster that isn’t saddled with an awful contract is “untochable.” Now obviously this isn’t a remark on your sensibilities, well, except for your consistent Rubio bashing, but I digress…

Phoenix and Minnesota: Steve Nash for Jonny Flynn + Wesley Johnson + #2 pick (+ rights to trade next years’s #1 in 2012 or 2013 if possible). This trade works on the Trade Machine.
lopez + 2011 13th pick + Pietrus for #2 Pick + Filler
Lopez + Dudley for #2 Pick + Filler

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't do the first one, but it isn't too bad...

The next 2 are well… terrible. I’m not even sure what the asset coming our way is in the second trade.

by vjl110 on Jun 7, 2011 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Steve Nash for Flynn, Johnson, #2 Overall in 2011 and a future 1st round pick from the Wolves to Phoenix is terrible IMO.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I guess I don't see either Flynn or Johnson as worth all that much...

so for me it is largely the #2 pick and a future pick for Nash… not a good trade, but it at least would be fun for a year, and it is much more realistic than the others.

by vjl110 on Jun 7, 2011 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

The last two deals are terrible.

However, they’re what I believe our FO will and probably already has offered to no avail which is why a deal won’t get done.

The first deal is actually pretty good when you take out the future 1st rounder. In fact, I would make it Flynn, #2 and Ridnour for Nash and either Lopez or the 13th.

The whole point of getting Nash would be to develop Rubio for about 2-3 years. Nash may be 37, but his body acts like it’s 31 and he’ll be a double double machine for 3 more years. In the meantime you get to see the Wolves in the playoffs. Beasely and Love is better than anything Nash has around him now. If your FO cares about selling tickets and developing Rubio, they’d consider this one. Also, if Rubio turns out to be good than Nash could probably play another 3 years past his current contract.

If they don’t want to go in that direction that’s fine, but I’d rather trade Nash for the #2 than Gortat because his value will only decrease the longer we hold onto him while Gortat’s value should increase. I know you guys would love to get Gortat (you’d be the best rebounding team in the NBA), but I think it’s a bad deal on our side because we have no one to replace him and we’d become the worst rebouding team. As far as the #2 pick goes, whoever it is isn’t a franchise player. I don’t think it’d be worth it.

I’d be surprised if our teams came to an agreement on draft day.

Any questions?

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 7, 2011 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nash for #2 and filler

Is still ripe with risk. The biggest risk being that he is a free agent after next season. What if next season doesn’t happen, then what? What if we miss a full season and Nash decides to retire at 38? Then we left with nothing to show for a pick that hasn’t even played a game yet in the NBA. Can you imagine the PR Disaster? If Nash suffers any injury at all he’s probably done at this point. That is a lot of separate risk. Including the #2 pick for him in this situation at this point of his career is lunacy IMO. I’m not opposed to selling off a guy like Wes Johnson as the centerpiece of a Nash deal, but Kevin Love, Rubio or the #2 are off the table, and even then I still would see what else is available on the trade market for the same assets before pulling the trigger.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

This

Nash is a 1 year rental. That doesn’t help. Maybe he helps Rubio a bit, but I’m not willing to trade the 2nd pick for that. Plus, Phoenix wouldn’t do that, right? They wouldn’t reward years of fantastic service to their franchise with a trade to the tundra. If they trade Nash, it will be to a contender.

The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.

by Eric in Madison on Jun 7, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you would need Nash to agree in extending his contract or to at least pick up his option and stay through 2012-13?
I’m not opposed to selling off a guy like Wes Johnson as the centerpiece of a Nash deal, but Kevin Love, Rubio or the #2 are off the table

Lol, of course you wouldn’t. That’s like us giving you Pietrus for Beasley.

Yea, there are risk and for your guys’ sake it’d be better if you got Gortat, but for our sake it’d be better if we traded Nash instead. I don’t think a deal will happen.

Don't trade Dudley!

by Beavis 25 on Jun 7, 2011 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nash just isn’t the type of player a rebuidling team trades the #2 pick for, period. I don’t think anyone in the high lottery would trade their pick for Nash. Of course it would be better for you if you traded Nash, but that seems unrealistic to me. He’s just not a good fit at that price. He needs to go to a contender and a contender isn’t likely to have a high draft pick. The Wolves would be better just waiting a year for him to become a free agent and making the pitch then, however doomed to failure such pitch would be.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's kind of why I wasn't sure.

And a big reason for this post was to provide some perspective. I’d be surprised if any deal went down between us.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 7, 2011 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful at all

It’s always interesting to get a read on how other fanbases view their own assets. Philly and Toronto fans value Turner and DeRozan for what they might become rather than what they are, Suns fans value Nash for what he was rather than how long he will be playing. Wolves fans on the other hand tend to value their assets much lower than the rest of the league does for some reason. Wes and Turner had similar years at similar ages yet we don’t think Wes is worth anything yet Turner still holds value. Obviously there are exceptions to all these generalizations.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 7, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a Minnesota thing...

…we’re actually pretty good at underselling our assets.

I’m shocked anyone wants Flynn. Perhaps they didn’t seem him play this year.

And Omaham you are always welcome here, really appreciate your perspective. You have been very reasonable,

by Django Z on Jun 8, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 8, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think I tend to over value our assets

and then I realize we are a 17 win team so I must be wrong, so then I de-value them.

I mean, I love Beasley and think he’ll be an all-star one day, but if that is the case why were we only a 17 win team? Kind my thought process

by VoodooMagic on Jun 8, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

It depends on what MIL thinks about Bogut.

Is he going to get back to where he was before the injury, or has he been reduced to a role player? But I would imagine no as well. Bogut+Burks > Beasley

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 8, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

To trade 2/Beasley...

…we would need to find a team with -1 Power Forwards.

by Boss10 on Jun 8, 2011 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's really too bad OKC wouldn't trade James Harden/wants the no. 2 pick

He’s just the absolute perfect player for this team

I would give up anything except Love and Rubio (if we could keep Wes that would be nice, I have a feeling Wes/Harden would balance each other well)

by VoodooMagic on Jun 8, 2011 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't think Phoenix is a good match

They’re especially not one if the deal includes a pick swap because it overrates Gortat and/or the pick. If Gortat was on his rookie deal or if the Suns were willing to trade an unprotected future #1 instead of #13, that’s a different story, but sometimes the fit just isn’t there.

The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman

by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 8, 2011 11:17 AM CDT reply actions  

My feelings as well.

Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!

Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!

I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.

by Omaha Sun on Jun 8, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

More Suns Trade proposals?

From Suns Zoo article on Phoneix Suns trade targets:

Kevin Love - The Suns found their center of the future when Marcin Gortat came to town and instantly produced double digit points and rebounds almost every night. Love locks up the frontcourt as a true post up power forward who will always play defense, grab rebounds and make life miserable for the opposition. To boot, Love is a monster from three-point range.
 
Minnesota must still have reservations about Love because he is a restricted free agent. The Suns could send their pick and a player like the blossoming Channing Frye to the Wolves. How about this year’s number one AND next season’s number one pick? It won’t make a difference, it would be a very low pick because the Suns would be playing in the Finals next season if they got Love in purple and orange without sending away Steve Nash.

Anyone here want to send Love to the Suns for Channing Frye, #13, and a future 1st?

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 9, 2011 11:07 AM CDT reply actions  

Ha!

We aren’t that bad are we?

by vjl110 on Jun 9, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hate to stereotype fan bases

But reading that article and the posts over at BSotS regarding every contribuitng rotation player being “off limit” players in a trade for #2 and I’m baffled. I need to follow BSotS to see whether its in GSoM or Blazers Edge territory, but early results have me thinking it just may be.

Derrick Williams is going to Bust...as a Small Forward.

by Ebomb on Jun 9, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

So we send out Love the young all-star and get back Frye a late lotto pick in a weak draft and a future first?

And the reason is because he’s a restricted free agent?

We can force Kevin to remain a Wolf (against his will) so long as we match any offer sheet. and this is a bad thing?

I suspect drug use….is there really any other reasonable explanation. Pandering is panding, but this is clearly altered state pandering.

by Airete on Jun 9, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

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