Presser
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 12, 2011 10:12 PM CDT
Email
PrintDavid Kahn is embarrassingly bad at his job. Immediately after being hired as Grand POBO of all of Wolfdom, he promised to put together a fun, uptempo team that would put butts in the seats and wins in the standings. He then proceeded to hire a coach whose style was unable to match the fast-paced visions in his head while filling out the roster with mismatched (and poor) talent. All the while, Mr. Kahn explained away his actions with a never-ending stream of just-wait-a-little-bit-longer-we're-still-really-young can kicking; knowing full-well that the few remaining fans of this god-forsaken franchise would latch onto anything resembling hope and that the axe at 600 First Avenue never really falls when it needs to.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
There is nothing to say about David Kahn that we don't already know. He doesn't know what he's doing. His ideas concerning the sport of basketball all revolve around either the physical aspects of the players (long and athletic) or things he has seen in Portland (Martell Webster, Blazers' championship team, Bernie Bickerstaff, etc). This man should not be in charge of a professional basketball franchise and if that concept isn't visible to you by now, I'm not sure what else you would need to see in order to change your mind. The guy is in charge of a young team that is undisciplined, not good on defense, full of mismatched talent and not all that good with the ball. He wants them to do what they do...faster. He wants to take the team with the highest pace in the league and make them go faster. Why? Who knows?
What we do know is that David Kahn was somehow able to square the circle of him being less culpable than Kurt Rambis for the 4th worst 2 year loss record in NBA history. He walked up to an open mic and was able to say all sorts of things about Rambis being the wrong guy for the job (who hired him?) and his inability (unwillingness?) to play fast in the open court (again, why on earth do you want this team to go faster?). None of it makes sense. It doesn't make sense because we are beyond the point of ridiculousness. We've lapped absurdity. We've hit nonsense at a full gallop.
Speaking of full gallops (and pace), one of the most frustrating things about getting back into running has been the complete inability of my legs to move in a manner anywhere in the vicinity of what is known as "fast". This is a mental problem more than anything else. I simply have to wrap my head around the fact that I'm not going to be able to train or run at a fast pace for quite some time. Runs that used to take 20 minutes now take 40. I'm running at an 8-10 min/mile pace rather than a 5-7 min/mile one.
On the bright side of things, my long barefoot runs are now up to an average of 4-6 miles/outing. I have been able to get to this point with absolutely zero joint pain. The only thing holding me back is that my calves are simply not at the point where they can handle the increased workload brought about by barefoot running. Also, in terms of speed, my lungs just are not able to handle anything under a 7 minute/mile pace. I am able to maintain that speed for .5-.75 mile and then I have to scale back to 8 or 9 minute/mile.
I can't tell what bothers me more: going slow or developing slow. I think developing slow is the bigger problem. My experiencing self tells me that I am currently contributing to my well-being by getting back into shape and doing the thing I love to do. My remembering self keeps telling me that I've run a sub 4:30 mile and that I'm waddling. I'm not sure how to make my two selves work through their current dilemma. Running long distances is a matter of mental fortitude more than anything else and I need to be able to solve this problem if I am going to add any sort of significant mileage. How do I accept the satisfying slower pace of my experiencing self while blocking out the visions of my remembering self?
Random running thoughts below the fold.
- I'm at the point of getting back into things now where I need to dial back the mileage a bit and focus more on form, a specific distance, cross and strength training. One of the things I was able to do over the past few years is weight lift. I am bulkier and stronger than I have ever been and I really need to dial this back if I am going to continue to run. I have taken up kettlebells and crossfit. I'd like to keep as much strength as possible while focusing on lifting during periods of elevated heart rates and cardio work. I'd be interested to hear any ideas about how to maintain strength while building up running mileage. When I was running a lot in the military, I never, ever, ever lifted weights. I was a skinny weakling. I like the whole strength thing and I'd like to keep as much of it as possible.
- I have noticed a definite difference between my right and left legs while barefoot running. If I could somehow make the rest of my body feel like my left leg I would be on to something. Within the first 30 seconds of running, my left leg (and foot) locks into a perfect stride and I literally do not feel any hard impact, strain or tension during the entire run. Whatever I am doing, I am doing it well on the left side of my body. On the right side (the side that had the last funny fracture in my foot), I can't seem to get warmed up. The faster I run, the better things get, but for the first 10-15 minutes of a run, the top of my foot and my calves do nothing but bark at me on my right leg. Amazingly enough, the leg is able to settle down when I get my cadence above 190 bpm and my heart rate above 160.
- Speaking of which, the most amazing thing about barefoot running (thus far) has been the way high-cadence running locks you into a good stride. Looking back at all of my runs (with a Garmin GPS watch and heart monitor), my best running comes when my heart hits Zone 4 and my cadence goes northward of 190. I don't know if this is a good thing or not but when I cross these lines, my heart rate flattens out, my pace increases and I am able to eat up the distance. It took me a good 2-3 weeks before I figured out the cadence trick. Before really ramping up my cadence, I was focused on keeping things very slow and low. This put undue stress on my ankles and I was unable to get anything done. Once I broke out the clip-on metronome from my daughter's cello bag I was able to know what a high cadence should feel like and I used 180 as my baseline (turning on the metronome every 5 minutes just to make sure I had the minimum beats/min) and then tried to "lock in" to a bpm that gave me the best results.
- I do not suggest running with a metronome beeping at all times. I use my metronome to a) give me a baseline bpm and b) to measure my cadence when I'm "locked in". Right now, I get locked in around 190-194 bpm.
- Geese are, will be and always have been evil creatures.
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Comments
Curious
didn’t see the presser today, and didn’t get any hints from perusing the threads. Why would Kahn have been fined today?
If that's the case
Yikes.
Derrick Williams was going to Bust...but then he was selected by the Timberwolves!
No, he’s just not allowed to communicate with any NBA players. Nothing more, nothing less.
"I don't want to have to read you the riot act, but I am going to have to read you some extracts from the riot act."
I think there is more
I don’t think he can acknowledge the existence of any player. In terms of the team, the players don’t exist and I think he crossed that line a number of times. He referred to Al Jefferson on a few occasions (“best player coming off a knee injury”). He talked about the team having young players. He talked about “our roster” on a number of accounts. He mentioned Brad Miller and Ricky Rubio by name. Ben Golliver has some more here:
So can Kahn end up in debt to the NBA?
If they fine him the $1 million per violation I’m not certain he can pay.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Dunno
The league isn’t commenting. The team has edited its youtube video of the presser. He clearly made reference to a few specific players as well as the roster. These are all no-nos. I don’t know if the league will fine him or not. If they are serious about the million dollar fine, I think he’s on the hook for at least 2. I think Jefferson should probably be thrown in there, as well.
It's incredible how unable to keep his mouth shut he is
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 13, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Well stated
S-n-P.
BTW if you are interested in increasing your speed, there are some useful exercises that have been successful for me. Let me know.
Now beyond Rambis, I came away from the presser today feeling disappointed. Kahn lied twice that I noticed. (1) that he just now made the decision to fire Rambis, and (2) he will begin his search tomorrow.
We all know that the April presser was the death knell for Rambis. We also know that a handful of replacement candidates have been contacted in the past weeks for consideration. Kahn was later forced to admit the Wolves contact with the Blazers about Bernie because he was announced.
Kahn also nicely precluded any substantive questions about him by proclaiming that he was at fault for everything. Nice tactical ploy.
Eager to learn what Kahn envisions as “up-tempo” on both sides of the floor, particularly on defense.
Dingus Kahn, it's over
Tight defense that enables the fast run?
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 13, 2011 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I would have been much-more upset
had there been a press conference to announce Rambis was being retained as head coach.
That is just me.
Yeah, I just avoided the presser
which made it all good for the day. I may not be thrilled with the new hire when it happens, but I’ll just about guarantee that I’ll be happier than I would have been with another year of Rambis.
by Madison Dan on Jul 12, 2011 10:51 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I do not like David Kahn,
But one thing he does is create interest in this franchise. The entire NBA blogosphere was glued to Timberwolves.com watching the live stream of the presser. They better be earning ad income off their celebrity GM.
Very happy to see Rambis depart no matter what my feelings are of David Kahn.
Derrick Williams was going to Bust...but then he was selected by the Timberwolves!
Where can I find this NBA blo-gosp-here you speak of? Sounds like a bunch of suckers.
by fanslaststand on Jul 12, 2011 11:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hmm Kahn's kinda like a kardashian. (minus the attractiveness)
by Bad News Wolves on Jul 13, 2011 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
What
about the Kardashians is attractive?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jul 13, 2011 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
My head asplode.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jul 13, 2011 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions
In the old days
I’d see Bruce Jenner and I’d be confused. “He doesn’t look like a decathlete to me,” I’d think.
Now I see Bruce Jenner and my brain melts. “She hasn’t aged on a Sleestak village-welfare program, so hardening Magic Shell,” I think.
Total Recall had more realistic mutants.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jul 13, 2011 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Whenever I see Jenner
I always think Jaime Sommers.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
do people who get plastic surgery really think they look better after?
body dysmorphia disorder
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 13, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Alan Colmes or Greta VanSusteren maybe
But Jenner was a decent looking guy who probably would have aged nicely. Head scratcher.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
The Jenner thing is weird, but I gotta disagree on Greta.
She looks a little stretchy and weird to me. I’m sure there are some people who look better after plastic surgery, but it’s probably because the surgeon was good enough to make it not very noticeable.
u think colmes and greta look better after plastic surgery?
do u have a before and after pictures
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 13, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say they looked bettesr. I understand why they did it. I thought Greta and Colmes looked even worse before
Tho Colmes got the skeleton head look.
Greta claims to have only done her eyes but she had that twisted jaw worked on as well.
I think being on-air celebrities has something to do with it but I’d always rather see someone age gracefully….you know, like Joan Rivers.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
do u have any idea why they decide to get plastic surgery when nothing is wrong with them?
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 13, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
One recent bummer is Tom Hanks
He’s aging well and now he’s got the facelift and hair plugs. Ahhh Tom, why did ya do it?
Interesting, I just saw him on the Daily Show
and I have to say, it didn’t occur to me that he’d had work done. But I’m not always the most observant person.
did he really look different or obvious? hanks im referring to
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 13, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Thought it was a remake of Big.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Was watching Leno last night
and Barry Manilow was the music guest.
His awful music was made worse when I saw the strange, strange plastic-faced man singing it.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jul 13, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I wite the songs?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jul 13, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Hire Paul Westhead
or David Arseneault of Grinnell “System” fame to be the Coach. Find, Long, Athletic Players to press like and run like crazy. Kahn’s Dream will comes true.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
haha I went to Grinnell, coach A was a crazy old man.
But that system requires a squad of about 20. With 12 active, the whole team would foul out every game, especially with the added 8 minutes. Also, the avg wolves game would take about 5 hours. I hated that system.
Chiefs, Royals, Twolves. Fun life.
Besides the 3 foot-in-mouth comments Khan has made so far...
>
>
Have you never said, written, or commented anything that came off completely different than you meant?
I get sooooo tired of “Khan-haters” on this site that have been polarized simply by a, well, polarizing personality, then decide they can spin everything he’s done to be a problem, or worthy of a “worst POBO in the league” title.
That is ludicrous. Just… please….. REMEMBER what Khan inherited for a team, coach (oh, wait, no), and TWolves fan-base when he got here. Every year it’s gotten better. Better players (PLEASE with the “bag-o-pooh mismatches that he’s put together now” comments. I’m all for getting a few players all with high potential (at the same position) to see what pans out, then dump, rinse, repeat.
I agreed with every draft take, trade, signing, and dump that has occurred on Khan’s watch except for the Curry\ Flynn one (counted as 2). It sure looked like Curry wanted nothing to do with MN, and didn’t even talk or work out for our TWolves from what I remember- so I would’ve thought 3 times about that pick as well. That said, someone better than Flynn (understanding that they knew Rubio was not coming that year and we had a huge point gap).
So…. Rambis. The other consideration. Tried it out, didn’t stay attached, dumped him. Flynn… tried it out, didn’t stay attached, dumped him. Good riddens to every one that’s been cut. Try it out, eval, then cut if needed. This team has DEFINITELY gotten better (and I’ve watched nearly every game since 89, and listened to the rest if available).
No need to continue the ultra-tiresome Khan bashing. Yes, he has a polarizing personality, yes, he’s made a few bad comments (big whoop), and yes there have been one (maybe 2 bad moves). The rest is moving in the correct direction, and he is just pulling in the reigns where needed.
Ah, remember the days of “Should we keep Love or Jefferson”, Miller, Brewer, Doleac, Foye, Gomes, Jaric, Green, Madsen, McCants, Ratliff, Snyder (who I liked), and Walker. Please- this roster is going the right direction big time… and we have options (unlike back then) with better cap room: albeit only for a bit longer.
Me likes Rubio, Ridnour, Telfair, Ellington, Johnson, Beasley, Webster, Williams, Love, Darko, AR, oh, about 700% better than the mediocrity we had prior. These are ALL trade-able assets now.
Get over the personality conflict already.
PS- glad we’re moving on from Rambis as well: had his shot, didn’t move the team along.
by LoveLovesLove on Jul 12, 2011 11:26 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
I couldn't care less about his "polarizing comments" or personality...
which many of those inclined to defend Kahn insist are the reasons we don’t like him. He took a really shitty roster and made it even worse after spending tons of assets on it. Nothing else matters. The “potential” on the roster is a subjective term that can’t be proven and, in my opinion, isn’t true. I don’t see more potential on this team than I did on McHale’s team. McHale’s team had two good NBA players. Kahn’s has one, who he didn’t acquire and didn’t properly value.
by LoveTo on Jul 13, 2011 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Seriously?
Take his day-1 roster…. line it up next to our roster now…. try to convince anyone of your comment “and made it even worse”.
by LoveLovesLove on Jul 13, 2011 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Even if that quote isn't true
The burden of proof is on both Kahn and his supporters, because the team’s record and other such hard statistical measures say that the team has continued to be terrible if not worse.
I understand the “potential” angle and I think it has a little bit of truth to it, but Kahn has gone through a whole pile of assets in 2 years without much improvement to show for it – regardless of whether the coach was terrible. It definitely takes more rationalizing to say that the GM of a team with such a crappy record is doing well than it does to simply point out that the team is still performing terribly.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
by nja700 on Jul 13, 2011 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
This offseason has been much, much improved by Kahn.
Nearly everything that has happened since the season ended (not the ‘show of hands’ moment) has been in line with my expectations as a fan. I must admit, this has altered my impression (dislike) of Kahn and his previous blunders, to the extent that I can tolerate him for the remainder of his contract (one year).
The "show of hands" moment occurred before the season ended,
because Kahn had some sort of passive-aggressive twinge in his ego muscle and decided he needed to have an “I come not to bury Kurt Rambis…. But to praise him” experience.
(Just a note of qualification.)
The "show of hands" moment occurred before the season ended,
because Kahn had some sort of passive-aggressive twinge in his ego muscle and decided he needed to have an “I come not to bury Kurt Rambis…. But to praise him” experience.
(Just a note of qualification.)
Huh?
Why, because he actually picked the right player this year in the draft? Doesn’t impress me much one bit. Irving and Williams were no-brainer 1-2 picks. And it still doesn’t change the fact that he picked Flynn over Curry and Jennings, or Johnson over Cousins.
The whole Rambis is fired, no wait, he’s not bit was flat out embarrassing too. Why the did it take him an entire month after the rumors started swirling to fire him? How about drafting a guy who ended up to be 26? Turns out he and our Euro scouts who are supposedly the “best in the biz” are so great after all.
This team is going to be a train wreck as long as Kahn is running it.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 13, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
did cousins really want to play there, he is a headcase as well but more talented than wes
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 13, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Who cares? At the very least, draft him and then trade him. I don’t care what anyone says, there’s NO way you take Wes Johnson over DeMarcus Cousins. Period.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 13, 2011 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions
didnt everyone in wolves organization love wes?
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 14, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Not really sure. It probably didn’t help that Cousins didn’t like us very much.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 14, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I tried to avoid listing things out, but...
He drafted the right player with the second pick.
He turned the twentieth pick into cash and a servicable player.
He signed Rubio.
He ditched Flynn.
He ditched Rambis.
I didn’t think the Rambis firing was embarrassing. The media speculates, perhaps with some truth, but Kahn had a $2m decision to make and he did his wanted to ensure he did his due diligence. The down side to waiting is less candidates are available, and that does suck.
I’m also not particularly worried about the guy who lied about his age.
I’ll give you the first two. Too me, they were the first and only “good” moves I’ve thought Kahn has made. Though, even there, we’re not sure how either will turn out.
I guess it’s good that he signed Rubio but I think the lockout happening had more to do with Rubio signing than Kahn’s persuasion. Getting rid of Flynn was a good move — but drafting him in the first place, over Stephen Curry was idiotic. And the same can be said for Rambis. He talked about how he wanted to play an upbeat game, and then hired a coach who has tons of experience coaching a half court style offense. Just didn’t make any sense.
I’m not “worried” about it either but it is pretty embarrassing. How do you not find out that the guy is 26, when it was actually online!?
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 13, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
The point of basketball is winning...
…look at the records. If that isn’t objective, I don’t know what is.
There are so many of you
who are blinded by Kahn-hatred and the piss-poor previous two seasons that your minds cannot embrace the concept of this team turning the corner next season (if there is one).
I just don’t know how SnP and the countless other CHers will reconcile their feelings and basketball perspective if the Wolves, infact, do turn the corner next season?
by sulu on Jul 13, 2011 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Another strange thing that you hear a lot of people say in Kahn's defense.
“I don’t know how you will reconcile your feelings if the Wolves turn the corner?”
I think I can speak for a lot of us when I say if the Wolves ‘turn the corner,’ we’ll all be pretty happy about that. But not expecting that to happen does not mean we won’t be happy if it does. For what it’s worth, the same things were said in the lead-up to last season.
Also, what does turn the corner mean? 30 wins? Sure, I’d be pleasantly surprised. But I won’t give Kahn too much credit, because we should have reached that level last season, or the season before. You have to remember that upon his hiring, Kahn himself said we’d be a playoff contender by now. That’s not people “blinded by Kahn-hatred” having unrealistic expectations. That’s what he said. Forgive us for being upset when, instead of a playoff team, he delivers the worst team in the NBA.
by LoveTo on Jul 13, 2011 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Where is the can on that playoff thing? Last I recall it was "several seasons" out again.
(I can’t keep track of which windows are open, and we’re turning on the AC.)
When he said in the Bill Simmons interview
that “we might be pretty good in a few seasons” it was classic Kahn throw away line, but revealing nonetheless. You don’t, and shouldn’t, get that long in the NBA. Sorry. That first season still rankles; it was a complete waste of a year for no legitimate reason. It put them at least a year behind where they should have been, and set a tone for a world in which, when it comes to the POBO anyway, wins and losses don’t seem to matter. The coach pays for them (deservedly), but Kahn apparently has done his job so well that the Wolves roster is “the envy of the league” despite, you know, NEVER WINNING GAMES.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 13, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions
The envy of the league can, having been kicked a couple of times already,
is now “intriguing” and other words to that effect.
When, in order to explain how people feel about someone, you resort to "They irrationally hate him without any good reason,"
you probably should be considering whether you’re avoiding looking at their real arguments yourself, speaking of “blind with _” arguments.
by feral on Jul 13, 2011 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Enlighten me.
Since you seem convinced of the assuredness of the Wolves improvement this coming season, I would like to hear in detail the reasons why you are so certain.
My frustration comes with a team that was mediocre, but slightly improving – and since Kahn took over, has become worse with no on the court signs of improvement. No matter how much anyone tries to spin it, this is a team that has burned through four top six picks and a boatload of cap space and gone backwards in win totals.
The PBO has no track record of building a winning franchise. The team doesn’t have a coach. Players with potential get you nowhere unless you develop them, and this team has yet to develop one under the current regime. The way the team handles any situation of moderate difficulty (McHale firing, Rubio buyout, Rambis firing) makes them appear incompetent.
I could go on, but I would be curious to hear why we should be confident in knowing this year will be better. Personally, I just want to watch competitive hoops. I’m not a “championship or bust” guy, playoffs or even near playoffs would be fine here.
No doubt
It’s been a frustrating two years. The losses on the court are the worst. Rambis’ incompetence as a HEAD coach has been unbearable. And contempt can be found in most any sentence Kahn utters.
But the roster today is packed with intriguing possibilities compared to the roster two years ago, or even one year ago! Rubio, Williams and Randolph (and Webster, too) are all good reasons the Wolves should be markedly better this year than last year.
The biggest “leap of faith” I am making is that Kahn will find a reasonable head coach. I might be making a mistake, but I have a hard time believing we cannot improve upon Rambis.
And if you are truly looking to be enlightened, make sure you take the time to read this wonderful analysis that biggity2bit put together a few weeks ago:
I would like to be optimistic, just struggling right now with Kahn’s lack of a positive track record, no coach, positional imbalance, and the potential/achievement gap of players on the roster.
I do think that hiring the right coach could take the franchise a long, long way. For example, a Don Nelson or Rick Adelman from 10-15 years ago could probably make the positional imbalance work and get more out of the players. But – just because the next coach isn’t Rambis doesn’t mean they will approach that caliber or necessarily be any better at all. We’ll all stay tuned.
There are so many of you who are blinded by Kahn-hatred and the piss-poor previous two seasons that your minds cannot embrace the concept of this team turning the corner next season (if there is one).
And there are so many of you that are blinded by homerism and optimism that you can’t wrap your minds around the fact that we have a GM who has no place actually being a GM! Sorry, if we’re a little down on a guy who has yet to bring even an above average player to the team in his tenure here, despite having a whole boatload of assets when he took over.
Rubio may be that above average player that he finally gets, but even that is far from certain. It certainly hasn’t been encouraging to see him make little to no progress his last few seasons in Spain.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 13, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
If I had a rolled-up newspaper
I’d whack you on the nose with it..
That’s the only reasonable response to your post.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jul 13, 2011 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd for humor...
even though it’s at my expense. There is no perfection. Anywhere here. A couple of bad gambles based on team need, and it does not add up to the blasting.
Again- wins does not equal better (esp when your coach is one of your 2 flops!). How (in your minds) were we going to get better as a mid-west team other than potential? And by definition, some potential lends good players, some does not. No GM is immune to that.
by LoveLovesLove on Jul 13, 2011 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I get that you think Rambis is a huge part of the problem of the last two years.
But you’re not acknowledging that Rambis was Kahn’s guy. There was no reason to think the Rambis was going to be a competent coach. There was certainly no reason to let him run the sets he was trying for more than a game or two.
Take the dumbest poster on this site (me) and plug them in as coach and you have a better result than Rambis got. And Kahn let him get away with it for two years.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jul 13, 2011 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Jason. Rambust was everyone's guy.
Tell me the folks who thought hiring a meat and potatos former NBA grinder, who maxed out his natural talent, won multiple rings, and sat at the right hand of what some consider the greatest coach ever was going to be a bad hire?
This is Monday morning quarterbacking at it’s finest.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't like the hire.
But, I’ve already had this conversation not long ago (with you maybe even). I gave “you” multiple points of concern, that existed prior to Kahn announcing Rambis’ hire. I remember a pretty large group of fans that were happy with the hire, a moderate portion that was concerned and a bit disappointed by the hire but willing to give Rambis the benefit of the doubt of this being his first ‘real’ head coaching job. Finally, there was a rather significant portion of fan who were down right against this move right from the start. Personally, I fit in the middle group. I wasn’t excited by the hire, thought the warning signs were ominous, but realized that until Rambis got behind the bench, worked with the players, we couldn’t be certain… and thought that his work ethic as a player might just rub off on a few of the guys. Reality is that Rambis was an abject failure as a head coach, and that starts on his defensive approach and moves directly into his inability to develop his players.
Your insistence that ‘everyone’ loved the Rambis hire, despite an ability to go back at look at the historical record here and other places, proves that you are just as guilty of glossing over reality as some others who deny they ever liked the hire.
by Krotz the Wall on Jul 13, 2011 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions
By "everyone" I'm referring to a majority.
There are obviously going to always be dissenters. I didn’t love him either (ended up hating him as a coach) and thought he fell on his face with the Lakers but thought he was a consensus right pick. (that’s better stated than “everybody’s guy”.)
Based on who was out there, the status of team and what the expectation level was of the team it was a low risk good hire. And frankly what was lost by the hire? They punted two years ago and probably moved up a couple of spots this year in the lottery due to his futility. If he works out? Great. If he doesn’t? Someone had to coach during this abyssmal transition. In retrospect it is in my mind still a good hire. Riggleman was not the long term answer in Washington. He was in their minds the “transitional” coach. Someone had to get them to the corner. In some respects he was a sacrificial lamb.
Remember, I’m still a five year plan advocate, and the team is poised to entertain much better candidates now than when Kurt was hired.
This hire is the one that really matters. Rubio coming in, a rising star, good draft, a new outlook, a young team with some games under their belt…
Kahn took a fair shot at a pretty good resume in a virtually no risk situation. Now the landscape has changed. If the next coach doesn’t work out it’s on him. But to bash him about the Rambis hire shows a lack of understanding about the rebuilding of a franchise. Kurt’s monumental failure and ineptitude is dissproportionate with the risk of the hire.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Taylor disagrees
what with the 4-year contract and many millions of dollars down the tubes. It’s not like Rambis was some cheap D-League guy. THAT would have been a no-risk move.
And I can’t help but feel that the coach being hired now is always “the one that really matters”. While I agree that a lot of people supported the Rambis hiring, I don’t think very many (if anyone) viewed it the way you described above at the time.
Every offseason is the biggest one in franchise history, too.
Except last year’s really was, and we got a rock.
Help me with the reference
Is that a Chevy rock or a Charlie Brown rock?
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha. That Chevrolet "Like a Rock" use of the song.... So bad.
“My sports car is like a jaguar!”
“My car is like a stone.”
Keeping it in context, the next hire
Is the one that really matters for Kahn.
They tanked two seasons. He got the young athletic team he wanted. He has Rubio in the stable. There are no excuses.
Don’t know many coaches fired without time left on their deal. Kurt or any coach were in a situation where they couldn’t win first two years. The money ( probably about a 2.5-3 buyout so Kurt can go get a job is a minor issue). It’s already been recouped. They probably ate one more season than they thought they would, but when would anyone worry about the 2mil investment that is improperly developing the 400 mil asset?
The four years were fair. Had the team not failed to improve (actually regressed) both seasons he’d be back for a sacrificial third.
Again, he was a high profile, low risk investment. The team is no worse off but this next hire is the one that counts.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Ugh, now we tanked TWO seasons?
I don’t think so. The real shame of last year is that they tried and were still that bad.
I guess I agree that this hire matters a lot for Kahn. I think the rest is spin.
by Madison Dan on Jul 13, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
No not tanked two seasons. Sorry, again context.
Sorry, a progression was expected and didn’t happen. Thus the early fire. But the expectation for winning was still relatively low. In a five year plan you’re tanking (sacrificing) the first couple of seasons. It is the wrong word. They sacrificed (not tanked) season two as part of this progession.
They expected to lose. Just not as often or in as remarkably a creative manner as they did.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
....and Williams was the result
Now staring at Clippergeddon, the Wolves have no choice but to win. It’s almost as if they tanked the past 6 seasons to avoid losing that pick to the Clips.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
That was me!
I’m you. And man were you correct in foresight.
by aarendsvark on Jul 13, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
I was excited about the Rambis hire. The guy was rumored to be the heir to a title contending team. He’s played with championship players, coached championship players, and coached under arguably one of the best championship coaches. But he failed here. I don’t see that as evidence of Kahn’s failure as a POBO. It is what it is. Rambis couldn’t handle a team this young and inexperienced. In the end his philosophy and his temperament were not what this team needed. It’s easy to look back and see why something failed and then say “Kahn should have known it all along.” If Rambis would have won COY and made us a winning/exciting team, all the reasons would have been there where both insiders and outsiders would have said, “yeah, this doesn’t surprise us that Kurt did this.” In the end, Rambis weaknesses ended up overriding his strengths. Rambis was given an opportunity to sink or swim like every other coach. He sunk. And I don’t blame Kahn for hiring him.
by Asher14 on Jul 13, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I hated the hire at the time and posted here on CH at length about it when it happened
Rambis melted down when he was head coach for the Lakers. He is a mess.
And Laimbeer had a terrible track record of players detesting him.
Rambis, Flynn and Wes were all AVOIDABLE mistakes.
Kahn has done some very good things, but those are three, large, bad decisions that there was clear reasons not to make at the time.
There are three critical mistakes you can make as a GM: hire a bad coach, draft the wrong player and sign a player to an exorbitant long-term contract. I’m very grateful Kahn has never done the latter, but it doesn’t completely make up for the first two.
This entire notion of “hater” is a BS discussion ender created by simpletons who were trying to win an argument by deflecting. It works with other stupid people, I understand it’s efficacy, but don’t bring that weak shit in here.
There are plenty of people on CH who give Kahn both criticism and praise and ultimayely give him a grade of C- or C,, like myself. Even though, yes, he is an exceptionally weird cookie.
Play the "typing pool" music, I've got my reference librarian hat on.
The furthest back the archive here seems to go, though is, this post from you in August of ’09:
I have been pretty on high on Kahn’s moves so far and I was reasonably pleased with Rambis being named a coach…BUT, the word on the stress is that Rambis can be one of those annoying, always harping on what isn’t working type of coaches. Very negative, very critical and not the kind of person that people will follow.
….I predict that Laimbeer and Rambis will be very unliked pretty quickly and that the T-Wolves will implode. Players will start to complain, free agents won’t want to come here and above all else players will not develop very well.
….I am not one to overreact normally but this has bad juju written all over it and the worst part is that the fallout will take years to unfold….
I do respect good research. Kudos, feral.
My initial reaction to Rambis was positive, I didn’t know that much about him. But as I dug deeper I quickly became very concerned. I think those areas of concern were pretty obvious and apparent to someone like Kahn. In other words: he should have known better.
And I was pretty on the money, wasn’t I? It took 2 years, but it happened.
(I guess I'd fit your last paragraph, incidentally.)
There are plenty of people on CH who give Kahn both criticism and praise and ultimayely give him a grade of C- or C,, like myself. Even though, yes, he is an exceptionally weird cookie.
Glen Taylor is the mostly-quiet other half of much of our goofiness. Why do we drag out feet about hires and fires? That problem predates David Kahn. The funny little moment in the Bill Simmons podcast Kahn did, where Kahn described Glen as being one of the “gentlest” people he’d ever known…. There’s a streak of loyalism-over-truth to Glen Taylor that really has some bad, bad consequences over time, and I think we see that indirectly all the time.
I have thought about doing a youtube video with that section of the BS Report interview looped over and over
If I recall it almost sounds like Kahn is tearing up at that moment, as if Taylor’s kindness is so great that it fills Kahn’s heart and makes him want to be a better man.
I honestly was half-afraid to go back to find that moment, truth be told. Too raw.
“Glen…. He sees my best self, and that makes me see it too.”
You love Darko?
You lost me there. Darko sucks and Kahn should have sent him packing, too. He’s made this franchise a laughingstock with his fascination with Darko, his footinmouth disease, his poor drafts and his questionable hires. Ridnour, Telfair, Ellington, and Webster are also questionable talent. Kahn has made Mcfail look good. Fan apathy has never been lower. So far, you can’t really defend very much of what Kahn has done. That being said, if we start winning this year, all will be forgiven (if he can unload Darko, the one handed hook shot wonder). Also, I do like some of the pieces he has assembled, and this recent draft was a good one, for once.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
by Action on Jul 13, 2011 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Take away DK's comments regarding Darko
and Rambis’s I’ll advised utilization of Darko and he was a good signing.
Meanwhile, after watching Rambis make Darko the centerpiece on the Wolves wedding table where do you think Kahn’s all-star comments originated? From his basketball people! He was just dumb enough to make the comments public.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait, we're to consider Darko without taking into account Kahn's or Rambis's reasons for signing him and using him?
What am I lookin’ at, here? Pictures of Darko in the airport? On those terms he was a good signing?
Yes Kahns comments are irrelevant
Look at Darko for the asset he could be should be for the team and at his cost.
Rambis misused him. Do you agree that properly used he was a good signing, regardless of DK’s remarks?
I think he’s a terrific back up and part time starter. Now be nice to me.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Darko’s skilled enough to be of value to a team. Maybe he needs to come off the bench, but he’s a better backup center than most playoff teams have.
NBA players do smoke marijuana...smoking weed in the off-season sometimes is my personal choice and personal opinion...I don't think that's stopping me from doing my job — Josh Howard
They just have to ask him to stop shooting
and pass the ball at every opportunity, and he’ll be ok for our fast breaking defense.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Defend the rim.
Dunk rebounds close to the hoop. Push everything else to shooters.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I can live with that
We still need a true center, though. There’s some good ones available in free agency.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Now you're asking him to be a player he's never been.
Yes, he can block shots really well. But he’s never been aggressive going to the basket and he’s not a great rebounder. And he turns the ball over a lot. If we could use him as a fly swatter who never touched the ball, he might be worth a roster spot. But there’s no indication that he’s willing to play that way.
by Madison Dan on Jul 13, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dan, I've asked a lot of players to be something they've never been.
This guy is an employee and if I were coaching he’d damn well do what the team needs. Personally I think the whole Rambis promise bit is overblown. I think moreso he was miscast.
We can position him in the offense to be a rebounder and or passer (high or low). Defensively he can swat and protect the rim.
If he can’t do those things then I’d move on but I think he can.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Tangerine, I find your use of my name to be somewhat off-putting.
And your whole point goes against the idea that Darko was a good signing. He’s never been what you want him to be. Suddenly he’s going to fill that role for his second coach on his fifth team in his ninth season?
by Madison Dan on Jul 13, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Blame your parents, not me.
They’re the one’s that named you.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Sharecroppers
What can I say?
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he could be an effective backup and part-time starter,
but the thing about Darko is, he’s the one who’s never accepted that role. He gets into funks, he wants what Rambis was telling him could happen.
Kwame Brown is a natural comparison for Milicic, and Kwame at least knows his job is to do the grunt work. You know?
The problem was
he bought into the hype that Rambust and Kahn fed him. They had him believing he could dribble and penetrate like a guard, so he tried to do that. The results were not pretty.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Yes agreed
Needs a coach to not pamper. I’ve said it before. Buy in to what we need you for or pack up your thong.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
He goes into funks
Where he acts injured or he’s got a bad headache
Whether he is the focal point on not.
Last season is the case in point, and partially disproves the He MUST be the FOCAL point or he gets a headache theory.
I think maybe he has a headache.
by WinTheLottery on Jul 13, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
ALL THE TIME
HE has a unless he is playing against inferior centers or a middle European center
headache
by WinTheLottery on Jul 13, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe, just maybe...
…for all of these years, unbeknownst to him or anyone else, he’s had a rock in his shoe. Somebody should investigate this ASAP.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
Darko isn't Darko because of Rambis.
He is what he is. A guy who wants to be Toni Kukoc, and will only play defense if he’s allowed to shoot a lot and try to make plays.
There is a reason EVERY coach he’s ever had in the NBA (except Rambis) has eventually benched him. Its because he will only play his way.
He’s not going to change his spots after 8 years.
Pictures of Darko as the centerpiece of the offense dance in my head
Dump the ball into Darko, and watch him operate with his back to the basket, dribbling the ball, waiting to unleash another turnaround jump hook shot, hoping against hope the ball doesn’t get stolen. That was beyond painful to watch, and I hated every minute it. The fact that many scribes have identified a true center as one of our #1 needs spekas volumes of the Darko signing.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Jonny's foot dribbling
makes me think this years team will be much more effective, too.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
When Wade dribbled off his foot out of bounds in NBA Finals I thought of you guys.
I had thought that Flynn was the only guard ever to do it.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
You guys?
You’re not one of us? We love company. Do you enjoy basking in our misery?
“Are you really mentioning me and Jonny Flynn in the same sentence?” Dwyane Wade
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
You know the routine...
“Why would I ever want to be part of a group that would have me as a member?”
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Good post............bored hoopus fans= LAME
I will save the serving of yesterdays pizza when discussing what kahn has done and rambis has not. The rambis ship has sailed an that leaky vessel is only held afloat with phil jacksons legend, he got his payday and his chance from it, shaky foundation. Not unlike this sites armchair athletes. (Don’t get me wrong, I love this site and all the insight and passion that comes from extremely knowledgeable fans) But…
The SNP is seemingly waning as well. The never ending vomit and venom mixed with barefoot cadence and unknown band youtube clips shows how much gas is in the tank. (or that there is a lock out that is currently taking place)
Before we all go post the same he said she said lame regurgitation of negative deep dish…….pause and ask yourself (has this been said 57 times before this post)
"My buyout? I don’t know…eet eez very compleecated." -Ricky Rubio (when asked about his contract)
by kyrow on Jul 13, 2011 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
In Heinz sight yes.
57 times.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions
This is like a master's course in hackneyed metaphors
None of this even makes sense. It’s like you rode in a horse, and it was hot, and now both the horse and your brow are dripping sweat on the pavement outside of the palace of broken dreams. There, I think I have learned your ways, oh sensei of nonsense.
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 13, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Good riddens?
Plus, liking Ellington 700% more than any basketball player should only be possible if we are talking about a 7th grader.
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 13, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree a 1000 percent
SnP, we get that you don’t like things that don’t go your way (see DMC for example). But the only thing that Kahn has done since he got here is start assembling pieces for his “plan”. Be that we are two years into it, and just now does this team sort of resemble what he said he’s wanted to do.
Is it perfect? Of course not, the lack of wins alone shows that. I give him credit for admitting his mistakes, taking blame and moving on.
Is he mana from heaven? Of course not, but at least he’s got a plan, is working towards it. If this master plan doesn’t work out after three years (Didn’t he mention that his goal was to be in the playoffs within three years?) then lets address what went wrong constructively.
Good post LoveLovesLove
by Black Metallic on Jul 13, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is embarrassing
to you Wolves fans. I hope you guys can be a playoff team again soon! My Mavs having the T-Wolves, Clippers, Jazz and Kings for Western rivals instead of the Lakers and Spurs sounds great in my book! I hope Kahn becomes a lockout casualty as well.
Brad James
Follow me on Twitter
With Coach Zorro on our side, we will slice opponents to ribbons. Tim Tebow gives me hope and I already have faith and charity in my heart! I see a propitious future rife with Lombardis for our Broncos!
by the new Bradfather on Jul 12, 2011 11:27 PM CDT reply actions
Yo Brad!
Long time no talk.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
I just want to know how Kahn got hired? What in God’s name was Taylor and whoever else who was involved in the decision thinking? The guy clearly has about as much basketball knowledge as your average fan. I’m just hoping it only take one more 15-20 win season for him to be gone, instead of 2 or 3..
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 13, 2011 12:15 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Actually I'm pretty sure the average fan on Canis has a better grasp on
the game of basketball than Kahn.
by Bad News Wolves on Jul 13, 2011 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
If so, very few of them post comments.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions
You're just bitter because you said Kahn would be fired before Rambis. Lol.
I’m sure tomorrow you’ll take out your angst by brushing a few elderly off the walking trail.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:33 AM CDT reply actions
SNP, I think you have fast pace confused with fast break
Kahn wants a fast breaking team. We led the league in pace by hoisting up shots early in the clock, usually without running a play. Kahn said at the presser he wants a fast breaking team, something we were never very good at, and still aren’t. Fast pace and fast break are two different things.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Except..
….he never says fast break. I’ve been waiting for it. There is a specific term for what he wants and, as a general manager for a pro ball team, he’s not using it.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 13, 2011 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually....
He starts the presser by saying , and I quote, “We are going to play a very up tempo, fast breaking style, on both ends of the floor…” If memory serves, he used fast break on several occasions.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
And if the wordsmiths be fair...
You do fast break on both ends of the floor!
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
Can’t wait to see that fast break defense. :-)
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
The fast break
begins on one end of the court and concludes on the other. Sorry you missed the humor.
Regarding tempo or pace of game, as a coach I press not just to steal the ball but to control the tempo or pace of the game. Some presses are used to speed up the play and some designed to slow it down. Defense undeniably can control pace.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
To wit: The Sonics under George Karl that one year.
They may have lost in the first round to Denver, but man I loved that team and that style. Cooler team than the SSOL Suns, for me.
George Karl's Sonics
came to mind for me, too, when Kahn mentioned both “ends of the court”.
I haven’t noticed it in Denver, though. Maybe it is more about the players than than the coach. Does Rubio have a bit of Gary Payton in him?
Karl has, to his credit, really grown as a coach I think.
He’s been more versatile than we’d expect. In Milwaukee he had team outside – Big Dog, Ray Allen, Sammy Cassell. In Denver he had the nice balanced team with ‘Dre Miller, then ran a very fast pace once Iverson was around (though they lacked the defensive chops to play like the Sonics), then did well enough with Billups for a time. In the long painful leadup to the ’Melo trade he kept things more or less together, and after that deal he took on the new talent well. I used to expect him to turn the locker room against him in Denver, but we’re past that moment a few different times now.
Pretty impressive performance.
And that's not to mention
Tolerating, mentoring, nurturing and integrating JR. He has become a great coach is right.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
The whole problem with the way we run it
Is that stingy defense is supposed to start fast breaks and easy offense, as opposed to the rushed style we play, which leads to fast breaks and easy offense for the other team. Fast-break play is much more successful and rewarding if it’s literally earned on the defensive end first.
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
Hopefully Rambust reads that
and learns from it.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Yeah,
I’ve been waiting for someone to bring that up. SnP, you have some truly powerful Kahn hating glasses you wear so that everything is colored in kahn hate. I agree Kahn is a very annoying speaker. His tone, inflection, and attitude seem just like the mealy mouthed kid in 6th grade you just wanted to slap. You wrote a lot on the “fast pace”/ “running, fast break” mistake. Flynn and Rambis turned out to be mistakes, but they are the only ones that have proven to be mistakes Flynn seems obvious, but there were reasons, and Rambis was a very popular hire at the time. I think even you approved. There was every reason to expect good things. This roster is full of potential. Give them a good coach and Kahn will be praised for his choices. I just said that last line to make you sick. ;)
Yeah
I’ve been waiting for someone to bring that up. SnP, you have some truly powerful Kahn hating glasses you wear so that everything is colored in kahn hate. I agree Kahn is a very annoying speaker. His tone, inflection, and attitude seem just like the mealy mouthed kid in 6th grade you just wanted to slap. You wrote a lot on the “fast pace”/ “running” mistake. Flynn and Rambis turned out to be mistakes, but they are the only ones that have proven to be mistakes Flynn seems obvious, but there were reasons, and Rambis was a very popular hire at the time. I think even you approved. There was every reason to expect good things. This roster is full of potential. Give them a good coach and Kahn will be praised for his choices. I just said that last line to make you sick. ;)
Don't you hate when it double posts? One more "yeah" and I thought you were going to break into a Beatles tune.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions
For the sake of good record keeping
Please list the current roster players you don’t think have “potential”.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
How about the players we think do have potential to be starters on a middle of the pack playoff team:
Love
Rubio
There that was easy. Love is clearly there already, Rubio might turn out to be that caliber of player.
I like Toliver and Randolph as role players, and maybe Martell healthy will show something and maybe, just maybe D Williams will surprise me, but I doubt it.
I'll play your game, but that's not really how it works in my opinion.
Sure, several guys on this team have “Best Case Scenarios” that sound kind of nice. But if all you have to do to get a team “full of potential” is to have a bunch of guys on rookie contracts, then the term is meaningless anyway.
But, just because I want to, here’s my run-down of Timberwolves Potential:
Kevin Love is an All-Star and one of the league’s best 15 players. He’ll probably max out as a 22-17 guy if he stays in MN.
Ricky Rubio, Anthony Randolph and Derrick Williams all have realistic ranges, I think, from “Can’t get significant minutes (for some reason or other)” to “Fringe All-Star.” It’s not likely any of them reach that ceiling, however, and I’ll be pleasantly surprised if two of them establish themselves as better-than-average NBA players.
Michael Beasley, Anthony Tolliver, Luke Ridnour, and a healthy Martell Webster (which we may not see any more of) are what they are and don’t have significant upside beyond it: Good backups but overmatched as starters.
Nobody else on the roster merits mentioning. I don’t see anyone else contributing valuable minutes to an NBA rotation.
So, to recap, we have one excellent player, four solid bench guys, and three players who have an outside chance at becoming truly good players (but, in practice, we should be thrilled if one of them makes it there). Unfortunately, two of those three home-run swings play Love’s position and their breakouts would just necessitate some kind of trade for less than fair value.
POTENTIALFEST 2011!!!
Potential
Rubio, Beasley, and Williams ooze with it.
Love hasn’t finished tapping it.
Wes and AR have a lot of it to spare on both ends of the floor.
That’s 6 younguns right there without even having to examine the entire roster.
The great thing about arguing based on potential
is that there’s no counter argument (nor is there any support). I could point out to you that Beasley’s stats have been pretty much the same across all three seasons, but it wouldn’t matter. I could point out that Wes was bad enough in his rookie year that his new peer group (of similarly situated rookies) indicates that it’s unlikely he’ll ever be all that good. But it wouldn’t matter.
You’d argue that they’ve been held back by injuries, bad coaching, sun spots, or whatever. And you may end up being right. But the odds are against most of these guys.
by Madison Dan on Jul 13, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Please don't hinder my blind optimism
with facts
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Never mind the more relevant question regarding the opportunity cost of wasting two years
Which is: Could someone who was more experienced / competent than Kahn done better these past two years?
While I have no statistical evidence that says the answer is “yes” (though SnP points to the Grizz as strong anecdotal evidence that there was a better way), the record of the last two years shows (statstically) that it would have been hard to do a worse job.
I get why as a fan it makes sense to look to the future (I’m sure Mavs fans, as happy they are, want the lockout to end as much as any team so they can defend the title), but it does seem to minimize just how much opportunity was squandered these past two years. Saying the roster has “potential” today is true, but you have to ask the other question: would a different GM have done better? If you truly believe that Kahn has outperformed what a “replacement GM” (new advanced stat: WARGM) would have done, kudos to you. I don’t see any evidence of that.
My blind optimism
is in no way an endorsement of Kahn. I just gett giddy whenever a new season rolls around. I’m a fan, first and foremost, and in the beginning, we all start 0-0. Then, about 2 weeks into the season, reality sets in (AKA despair). Could someone have done better? Abosfrigginlutely. I am not a Kahn supporter by any stretch of the imagination.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
by Action on Jul 13, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Amen to that
I don’t get the point of being a sports fan if you buy into notions that based on stastitical analysis, a player can never get better.
A great coach can lift players/athletes up in amazing ways. That’s the fun of it to me.
Now pass me another glass of that Kool-Aid. I’m chuggin it down.
Who said they can never get better?
I said the odds are against them, which I think is right. Once the season gets started, I’m actually as optimistic as anyone. At that time of year, I just feel like they ought to be able to be really good. But at some point I find it helpful to inject a little realism into my evaluation of where things stand.
Here you go
Gardy is an example of a coach who managed to get the most out of his players. He took a team that had the worst record in the entire league, filled with mostly minor league players who didn’t do that well in the minors,and a revamped bullpen that was ranked as one of the worst in the league, and has them playing winning ball.
When something didn’t work, he changed it (Nishi, Casilla). While I don’t always agree with his pitching moves, he is an example of a coach who changed things to suit the players he had in order to try and win games. They play one game at a time, and they play to win.
Why couldn’t Rambis do that?
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Also of note
Gardy, and the entire Twins organization, is very good at identifying players who fit their style of play and who buy into their style of play. I wonder if there’s something to the persistent rumblings that not all the players bought into Rambis’ systems. Is that a negative on the players or the coach? I guess when you look at Gardy you gotta tip your hat to a guy who’s almost always in his player’s corner no matter what, and who motivates his players and gets the most out of them that he can. The Twins started horribly this year and it truly is incredible the run they’ve gone on with essentially half of the Rochester Red Wings starting roster playing for them.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jul 13, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree
The Wolves, on the other hand, were unable to muster a style of play that resembled winning basketball.
Rather than change they way they played, i.e. bad defense and selfish undisciplined offense, they continued to play the same style of fast paced, turnover prone, losing basketball the whole season.
They were completely unwatchable at times, and only the truest of fan was able to stomache watching them play every single game.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Pretty much sums up the coaching this season
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
@you and action- Really? That’s on Rambis? It’s his fault that Kahn got him a bunch of average players? That he acquired Beasley, who is and always has needed to be a volume shooter to be successful? What was Rambis supposed to do about the bad defense? When you have a bunch of inferior players, you can only do so much defensively.
I mean yeah, Rambis was a shitty coach. But to essentially say that it was all his fault that we were as bad as we are is absolutely ridiculous.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 13, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
It was his fault that they were as bad as they were. Period.
That doesn’t mean they were great without him but I can’t think of one coach who wouldn’t have had more wins with this team.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
"A bunch of average players"
should be able to get an average number of wins. The Wolves under Rambis got a way below average number of wins. That’s the problem.
Average was probably being pretty generous. Love is well above average but after that, everyone was either hovering around average or was below average.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 14, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Starting with and especially the coach.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 14, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Note...
that I didn’t make any predictions as to the likelihood of above-named individuals actually reaching their potential. It’s a simple claim. Do we have a lot of potential on this roster? Yes. Potential can either be reached or squandered. That’s beside the point for this “argument.” We have a squad of young players who haven’t maxed out on their abilities and have room for significant growth. Each that I listed have been in the league 3 years or less. Anyone who believes Rambis was a horrible coach needs to take that into consideration when judging the performance of the players last season. I’m a bit more patient than most (won’t apologize for that), so I choose to reserve judgment on my career expectations of guys like Beasley and Wes and AR until next season is underway (if there is one). I’ll have even more patience with the rooks Rubio and DW. But that’s just me…
by Asher14 on Jul 13, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Potential just means a player isn't as good as you think he should be.
But neither you nor I has any idea how good they can actually be. This may be as good as Wes gets in the NBA. How do you know it’s not?
It’s fine to be optimistic — I hope all of these guys work out, too. But the whole “this roster has loads of potential” argument is based on an unprovable foundation, which is that the players are actually capable of being better than they have been.
by Madison Dan on Jul 13, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Wes has already reached his peak as an NBA baller (highly doubtful and improbable)
that’s not because he reached his full potential. It’s because he never realized it. He was a rookie. Rookie’s have to adapt to a bigger and faster game as they move from high school to college to the pros. How long it takes to adapt is debatable but once they’ve had time to adapt then that’s when the “they are what they are” phrase becomes relevant. I don’t know how good Wes can be. Since I am not Wes and I am not responsible for working on Wes’ game, I’ll avoid making any “firm” predictions. I do know that Wes is a rookie with the skillset and athleticism to make a significant impact on both ends of the court. He’s only got one year under his belt and from what I’ve seen it would not surprise me in the least if he became one of the better shooters and defenders in the league. A player’s rookie year does not define him. How he improves from year to year does. And for the record, I believe the odds are highly in favor of guys like Beas, AR, Love, and Wes improving next year and in years to come. Contrast that to guys like Kyle Korver, Ray Allen, Carlos Boozer (just to throw some random names out there). “They are what they are” applies to them.
by Asher14 on Jul 13, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
By this logic,
any collection of players with little NBA experience has tons of potential.
by Madison Dan on Jul 13, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Think you're minimizing it a bit.
There are multiple factors. Skill set is certainly one of them. Opportunity another. Situation another. Work ethic and bball IQ. Outside sources like coaching and training.
If you look at Byombo I think we’d agree that he is loaded with potential but it may takes five years for him to realize it. I certainly wouldn’t put a ceiling on him after a less than stellar rookie year (especially with this coach).
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
To that end...
…certain players on this team seem to have limits with regards to a few of those factors. I would say Anthony Randolph has a very low BBIQ, and he has not gotten any better, which calls into question his work ethic. Beasley’s work ethic should be called into question. Wes Johnson has in my opinion a pretty limited skill set offensively. I think it is reasonable, based on the factors you cite, to question the potential of a number of the Wolves’ players.
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 13, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Heck yeah
They’re not all going to be all-stars, and again, a guy like Beast who is loaded with talent may never “realize” his full potential.
But I think there are multiple high ceiling potential guys on this roster.
The bggest frustration from this season, and Darth hit on it, was that Rambis impeded player development and thus the discovery process on these guys. After this entire season there are no definitive answers on individuals.
It’s why I’d like to see Nelly come in for a year or two and realy air out the offense so you’d at least know what you have.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Nelly certainly would be intriguing
Adelman too. I would love for the Wolves to get a coach who knows how to use his players’ talents, rather than trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 13, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
It'll be interesting to see how a new coach handles Darko
Will he embrace him, and tie his career to him, as Rambust did? Or will he relegate him to the end of the bench, like Larry Brown and others have done?
If he’s a decent coach, I say he takes the ball out of Darko’s hands, and finds a capable starter who can score and defend.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Definition of potential...
NOUN: “a latent excellence or ability that may or may not be developed”
ADJ: “capable of being or becoming”
Saying someone is young and has room to grow and develop doesn’t mean they have TONS of potential. There’s a distinction. You know that. I don’t expect Wes to become D-Wade or Beas to become Carmelo. Wes doesn’t have the skillset or the mental make-up and Beas doesn’t have the mental make-up or drive to lead anyone to believe they can attain those levels, but it does not take a basketball genius that both players can be better than they currently are considering where they are on their career track.
I haven’t predicted any All-Star appearances, MVPs, ROYs, or future Hall of Fame credentials. Correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t predicted one single thing. THAT’s where I would expect a healthy argument. Not on the issue of “potential.” The potential is a given.
It seems that you're getting frustrated that I won't just accept that
the potential “is given”. I won’t, because it’s not. Your opinion is that these players can play a lot better than they have. That may be true, it may not. Neither of us can prove it either way. That’s my point. Which gets back to my original post, which was that arguments based on potential don’t go anywhere, because they’re not based on anything that can be verified or refuted. And here we are, still not going anywhere.
Actually
I think your definition of potential and mine must be two different things, because if you don’t think it is a given that most GMs would probably agree that Player X, Y, or Z on our roster has the very real potential to be better players than what they currently are, then we can agree to disagree. Like I said, the potential is a given. If you don’t agree, that is your decision. Doesn’t change mine.
And this isn’t an argument based on potential or even what the player’s potential is; it’s not even an argument of HOW MUCH potential a player has (I’m not saying player X is going to be better than player B or player C is going to be a better version of player D or player E has a such-and-such ceiling). This is an argument about whether potential even exists, which (by definition) is a given. Every player has the potential to get better, but some have a miniscule likelihood of ever doing so and others have monumental opportunities. According to your argument, potential is a word that shouldn’t be mentioned in the NBA, even though that’s the reason players get drafted where they are drafted (lottery, first round, 2nd round, free agent) and analysts say (not just in the NBA) this player has “the potential to be a difference maker” or a “perennial All-Star” or a “franchise QB.” Potential is why KG was picked 5th when he hadn’t proved a thing in college. Potential is why Nike signed Lebron to a $70M contract before he even had his first training camp. And potential is also why some players get passed on (Cousins, a potential head case; Blair, potential knee issues; Adrian Peterson, potential injury magnet).
And no, I’m not frustrated with your differing opinion because if I was I wouldn’t respond. More like, “slightly amused” because I didn’t even expect this would be a discussion and wanted to see where it goes.
Been a pleasure!
You still don't get it
It’s not about whether any potential exists, it’s about arguments about the amount of potential a given player has. In response to a post that was “this roster is not full of potential”, you wrote:
Rubio, Beasley, and Williams ooze with it.
Love hasn’t finished tapping it.
Wes and AR have a lot of it to spare on both ends of the floor.
My point is that arguments about the amount of potential a given player has are entirely subjective. You think Wes has “a lot of it to spare on both ends of the floor”, but a lot of people disagree. And there’s not much to argue about, because you can just claim that he can be better than he’s been and no one can prove you wrong. That doesn’t make it a compelling argument.
PD and Feral and I have battled on this
And really there is nothing to do but have an opinion and time will tell.
Nobody’s wrong here. Asher and I are substantially more optimistic than you about the potential of the talent. You feel otherwise. I’m sure you hope you’re wrong. We all see different things in different players and try to project.
But it will be fun to see how these guys develop (some will, some won’t) under what ( fingers crossed) is a great coaching hire. And we can go back and see where we were all right and wrong. PSR is right that it all starts or stops with the coach. My feeling is that this hire is crucial to Kahns legacy if not his tenure.
I’m optimistic that viable well suited candidates will desire the job and the TWs will open the purse.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
My two cents on potential
Now, I tend to agree with Asher that our team does have loads of potential. Almost every player has the potential to be a significantly better player than they are right now. Even Love could significantly improve if he were to add a defensive dimension to his game – since he seems to lack any at all, IMO. However, aside from unknown rookies, I like to look at what a player can do on a given night, when they are feeling it and their confidence is high. For example, look at some of the scoring nights Beasley had, the performance of Wes when matched up with Kobe, the first few nights that AR played in Love’s absence, or the numbers Darko put up against the Lakers in a game where no one else was able to do much of anything. Sure these stellar performances are not likely going to occur every night, even Jordan had bad games. But if they are able to do it on occassion, doesn’t this prove that the potential is there to do it every night? And isn’t it the coach’s job to motivate their players to get the most out of them game in and game out? And just look at the team as a whole, they played some of their best ball all season against the top teams in the league, because they were motivated to do so, they played to the level of their opponents because their only motivation came from within. The coaching staff failed to motivate them each and every night. Not only that, but all those collapses in the fourth quarter we were subjected to? Again, this is the coaching staff’s fault, the team played their game, got a lead, but when they other team made their runs – they just caved because they had no leadership to turn to show them how to get that momentum back.
I’m sorry, I’m kind of ranting at this point, but seeing Rambis (finally) get the official boot was one of my happiest moments as a Wolves fan! The only positive contribution I saw him make was on Brewer’s shooting in year one. Aside from that, his game plan was complicated and didn’t play to our strenths, his rotations were a mess, he destroyed player confidence, and he did nothing for player development. I can’t wait for this lockout to end to see if a new coach can actually help some of our players reach their potential.
"Life is hard...it's even harder if you're stupid" - John Wayne
by wolves_fan on Jul 14, 2011 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wish we had less players who oozed potential.
It’s great to have blocks of granite around, but an occasional sculpture would be nice.
I'm anti-oozing, generally.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jul 13, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
words matter
They are how we map the world in our brains. If a nuclear engineer talked about the “gas separator” instead of a centrifuge it would raise a few eyebrows, especially if he had a history of similar misstatements. Have you heard an NBA GM talk about “fast paced” action on both sides of the court before? I haven’t.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 13, 2011 8:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Kahn talked a little about this when Rubio came on,
and it really didn’t bug me that much. Basically he said he wants to choose moments to apply full court pressure.
The way he used “pace” yesterday may be one more indication of his not grokking certain concepts that a Mark Cuban obviously does get, but it’s not an utterly damning indication of his level of understanding of the game. One would really like him to know that the Wolves already played at the league’s top “pace,” sure. It’s not like he badly confused the basic skill set necessary to play on the wing in the NBA, though…. I mean, not in those statements, anyway.
Grinnell College's basketball coach, maybe
Otherwise I draw a blank on “fast paced defense”
by aarendsvark on Jul 13, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Glad I wasn’t the only one wondering what the hell “fast paced defense” was supposed to be..Seriously though, the more I hear the guy talk, the more he shows me how little he actually knows about basketball.
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 13, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Well stated.
There are fast break teams which are efficient and disciplined.
I coach to situations of advantage (5-4, 4-3, etc.) both on offense and defense. If the numbers aren’t there in the fast break you look for the advantage in transition. If the numbers aren’t there in transition you run your offense.
The “pace” at which Rambis ran this team led to both inefficiency and incohesiveness, and further hurt them on the defensive end as well.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Presser highilights
“I’m not smart enough to know definitionally what it takes to be a retread.” David Kahn.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
by Action on Jul 13, 2011 2:01 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Definitionally??
Who uses that word? Methinks I’ve never heard it used in a sentence before, and had to google it to verify it was actually a word. Leave it to Kahn to expose us to his vast command of the english language. Every time that guy holds a presser, he looks even more pathetic.
If Jay Leno was a TWolf fan, he’d have a field day with this clown.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
The Kahndy Man can
Hope we hire Lawrence Frank. Other than that, I have nothing to say. I’ll let you fine gents “get after it”.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
It's funny, and telling,
that your take is the exact take Souhan wrote in his article today.
Kahn - please read this paragraph that Souhan wrote:
“It is probably unfair to compare Kahn to an average fan. The average fan knows that NBA teams don’t win by emphasizing “up-tempo’’ offenses. They win with defense, rebounding, half-court execution and intelligent play. Fast-break baskets are the result, not the cause, of well-played basketball.”
Well said, Jim.
by Luis Rivas on Jul 13, 2011 9:24 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Why do you want Kahn to read Souhan?
As I used to say when I went to play ball…you guys looking for a fifth?
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Running
I’m in the same boat as you as far as running goes. I was never a 4.30 guy, but I could run long distances at a 7-7.30 pace. An injury took that back from me and now when I’m going at an 8-8.30 pace I wear down at an exceptional rate.
I have been doing the ‘barefoot style’ of running, and I have noticed that any pain after running is muscular only. I’m a big fan of that. I do wear shoes though, living in the city doesn’t make me feel comfortable not knowing what I might step on.
I just received a pair of these:
They’re pretty cool. I wear them whenever I do gravel running or when I run near downtown (i.e. the possibility of liquor bottles near the Barmuda Triangle). The only complaint I have is that the bottoms have a small patch glued on to them that hides the laces loop. The patch comes off and I had to re-glue it. Other than that, this is about as minimal as it gets. I’m ordering a pair of these, as well:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/danopz/bedrock-sandals
I like running barefoot but I need something for trails. These seem like a good trail sandal.
Hmmm
First, SnP, again, your running ability amazes me. I find it…hmmm…what’s the word…‘quaint’?…that you appear to have very little understanding of how good your numbers were, and how lofty your current expectations (and production) is compared to 80% of American runners. I knew some guys from HS who posted 5K numbers just slightly better than your PRs and they went on to run DI and DII cross country.
Coming from my own experience I would urge you to acknowledge just how insidious injuries to a foot or leg can be, re:
I have noticed a definite difference between my right and left legs while barefoot running. If I could somehow make the rest of my body feel like my left leg I would be on to something.
I’ve had plantar fasciatis (sp?) for ten years, well, up until last year when I was referred to a PT who was the bomb for all things running related. She had me over that in three sessions, but more to the point is something she told me to be aware of which I pass along now – part of rehab after an injury is retraining your brain to move and land on your leg the way it is supposed to. I still have weakness and inconsistent strides on that side of my body, and it’s all mental. Strengthen it, sure, but also consider video taping yourself on a treadmill so that you can see what exactly is happening – is a hip dipping? Are you landing on the outside of your foot? Where are you toeing off? Overstriding?
Anyways, two more points:
One, this should be our new tagline:
David Kahn rules your favorite team. He’s a doofus. That’s not going to change. What can change is your well-being and I strongly urge you to think about how you can make that change for the better.
or in haiku form:
David Kahn, dufus,
makes changes but does not change;
ergo Run For Life!.
And two, I am beginning to wonder if we shouldn’t have a CH Running Club. Not sure how it would work – maybe someone can start a ‘game thread’ and everyone who’s interested posts what their goals are for 8 weeks (e.g. I’m going to get out 3X a week; I’m going to run 2 miles in 15 minutes; I’m going to do a 10K for the first time; etc) and then once a week everyone has to check in and report how they did, what was a challenge, what worked, etc. The idea is that CH readers get healthy, are held accountable in a mild way for their goals, and that if any issue comes up we can keep each other positive and motivated as well as mining the group think for solutions/advice.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jul 13, 2011 9:26 AM CDT reply actions
Much better tagline:
If I could somehow make the rest of my body feel like my left leg I would be on to something.
Somehow that speaks to me as a Wolves fan.
Hahaha
Yes, the Wolves roster unfortunately has 5 good left legs and that is about it.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jul 13, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for the feedback (and the haiku)
I am trying to talk Mrs. n-Pop into letting me spend about $200 on a local service that videotapes running strides at a ridiculous frames-per-second rate and then analyzes your foot strike and stride. She’s not going for it so far. I have taped my stride with a flip cam and I can’t see anything that is really off in terms of balance or favoring of one side to the other. The left foot simply feels like gangbusters from the 1st step while the right takes a while to warm up and it needs to be going somewhat fast to get “locked in”.
I land closer to the inside of my foot than the outside. I have a midfoot strike and my foot comes down from the balls of the feet to the heel. My knees are bent, my shoulders are relaxed and my head is still. I lead with my torso and my arms do not cross my body. I have next to zero up-and-down action. Everything looks ok from my flip video but I would like to see my foot strike in slow motion on a camera that can capture that sort of imagery. I’m definitely not overstriding. My feet are definitely landing directly under my body on each and every stride.
I really like the idea of a CH Running Club. A few thoughts:
- Maybe we could start up a Nike + or Garmin page where people could share courses and goals
- Maybe we could start a group that will run the Wolves’ 5k
-Maybe we could start up a general fitness thread similar to what SBG did a while back on his dearly departed site.
I’d really like to pursue this idea. I think it’s a really good one. Maybe we could use Map My Run as part of the project.
SnP
I fully get the frustration you’re talking about in the full post. Exactly 20 years ago, my daily life featured two physical sensations that will never be revisited. One was enjoying wild, athletic sex with an NCAA champion gymnast, and the other was the joy of being able to feel strong and relaxed while running at 5 min/mile pace. The mobility-constrained, tortured 9+ min/mile shuffling I engage in now bears no more resemblance to the running I used to practice than the conjugal grindings of a long term marriage resemble those lusty and vigorous couplings between two impetuous and energetic young specimens. And I bring this up because, if offered the chance to revisit either of these two sensations, I would almost certainly choose to find myself cranking over some hilly trail at a speed that melds me to the wilds of my environment, an effort that feels would be more difficult to stop than to keep the limbs churning. I’d choose the ability to run in anger, to throw my will into a set of 65 second quarters. I will never be that physically alive again.
Without getting too sciencey on you, let me put your slow development in perspective. Importantly, your endurance is entirely the product of the biochemical properties of your muscles, not your lungs or cardiovascular system. Adaptation of your muscles depends fully on the amount of use, or "on time". You are building your mileage slowly, as you need to do with this sort of change in the stress you’ll put on your body, and you are only now getting to the length of runs that really induce adaptations. Another factor is that you’ve changed your running form. This means different muscle fibers used in different ways. Just because you’re using your legs does not mean you’re using all the muscle fibers. For instance, you generate more force by recruiting more muscle fibers, not by making each fiber work harder. So, when you dabble with 7 minute pace to test those waters, you are using fibers that are sleeping through your 9 minute pace runs, and have not even begun to get ready to maintain work over several miles yet. Likewise, as you change your stride you are deriving power from different muscles in different recruitment patterns than you previously used them. They would likely be starting from a lower place endurance-wise. It will take a while of applying chronic stimulus to get the adaptations required to maintain constant effort. Keep with the program and trust the process (a phrase I use on all the guys I coach). You are at a point (doing a mindful buildup) where you should be able to focus on training goals without obsessing about performance. Running a little further each week is an accomplishment. Put your focus there. Keep your long-term goals about progressively higher, healthy mileage. At the same time, keep tossing in those 7 min/mile surges. Just a few, just to get a touch of activity for the fibers that you only use at those speeds.
As for the high speed filming, that may be useful, but only if it comes with analysis of your gait by someone sophisticated enough to get at root causes of and fixable solutions to any biomechanical bugaboos. Not everything in your gait has to be perfect. Most people who work in this field don’t know half of what they claim to. Take the muscleheads linked to above offering the weight training for distance runners. You’ll notice the BS factor is relatively high with this group, right from the FAQ responses that go against your own personal observations. They state "A prevalent apprehension associated with strength training for distance runners is that intense strength training will cause a runner to add muscle size and the runner will attain a “muscle bound” or “bulky” appearance thus negatively impacting running performance. Unfortunately, this myth is perpetuated by the running community including well meaning coaches, athletes and running magazines. The truth is that intense strength training with heavy weights will not make a distance runner “bulky” unless the runner has the genetic predisposition to add muscle; a virtual impossibility for most distance runners. The genetic characteristics that runners generally possess are very different than the genetic characteristics of a body builder or power athlete." They regurgitate the same tired misconception that weight training improves basal metabolic rate, and somehow believe that weight training would have a positive impact on body composition for an athlete already performing serious endurance training. They reject the exact workouts that you feel work for you, the "functional strength" training.
You can continue to do whatever strength training work you prefer while running. The important issue is fatigue. Watch the lower body strength work. You are already embarking on a training protocol designed to work and fatigue lower body musculature that is supposedly soft from "traditional running". Muscles that are critical for stability and injury prevention. Go easy on the leg training.
I have more to say about cadence and whatnot, but this is a wickedly long post already. So I’ll save it for later.
by dropstep on Jul 14, 2011 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Awesome, thanks
I think I have a mental hurdle I need to clear more than anything else. I badly want to get fast again and I need to tell myself that it’s ok to go slow. It’s ok to miss a day because I’m tired. It’s ok to run at a slow pace and enjoy the scenery. What’s not ok is the damn shutdown keeping the state parks and their running trails closed ;)
Since I’ve added in 2x kettlebell and 1 crossfit session, I’ve scaled my running back to 3-4 on Monday, an hour on Tuesday (kettlebells to follow), nothing on Wednesday, cross train on Thursday (kettlebells to follow), 3-5 on Friday, 2 miles and biking (with crossfit) on Saturday) and rest on Sunday. I’ll bump up the miles over time. I do form drills on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
I hear you on the “if I could only do 1 thing” bit with running. There is nothing better than getting locked in at a fast clip and then trying to see what kind of terrain you can chew up at that pace. Nothing.
As has been noted
One of the irritants stemming from this bizarre but completely par for the organization dithering over this decision is that many of the possible candidates have taken other jobs. Whether or not newly hired assistants (like, for example, Elston Turner, who they should have hired in the first place, probably), would be allowed to interview, it certainly complicates things. Further, it seems likely that many potential candidates simply will not be interested in the job given the situation.
I mostly blame the organizational style, as defined by Glen Taylor for this. Kahn is clearly comfortable with it, which is no credit to him, but dithering around with decisions is a trait of this franchise that goes back further than Kahn’s tenure.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 13, 2011 9:42 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree on the timing
But honestly think they had to wait Kurt out on a buyout.
Again, when talking about a 400 mi franchise this appears to be and is penny wise pound foolish but I’m pretty sure KR wasn’t budging so they waited him out.
Agree some good potential candidates are off the board but they may have a short list in tact.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
(Is Kahn even clearly comfortable with it?)
Goodness knows. I’m not sure what he’s like when he’s comfortable. Our real example might be that Beasley interview on 1500 that got him fined.
I learned early in my business career, you can think a manager is an idiot...
…but the real problem is always the owner who employs that idiot.
Kahn's blunders:
Johnny Flynn (HUGE BLUNDER)
Rambis (big blunder)
Darko (small blunder, too much $)
Wes over Cousins (jury is still out, but Cousins is a headcase and Wesley has that smile)
The rest of his moves I think we have generally gotten the long end of the stick or it has been a push. I also don’t think we have piss poor talent.
This years draft we got the best talent on the board at the time, and ended up with a pick next year. Most of the NBA media was pretty glowing about Kahn’s draft work this year.
by Darth Tugits on Jul 13, 2011 9:42 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Why is Kurt a big blunder?
He is an aweful coach but are they worse off than two years ago? If so, how.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
This is a nice setup you've constructed.
If they succeed, yay we got better!
If they fail, yay we got higher draft picks!
I applaud your sunny outlook.
by Madison Dan on Jul 13, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
But that's why it was a LOW RISK hire.
Exactly for that reason.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
How about the risk of alienating your last dozen fans?
by Madison Dan on Jul 13, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I do think that's a consideration
But isn’t that why they made so many pricing concessions? They knew this process would suck for fans and tried to compensate with pricing.
But honestly, hiring Rambis cost them ten wins this year which ultimately helped in the draft. It was excruciating for the fans but mercifully it’s over and hopefully will one day not too far away be worth it. That is the plan. But hiring Rambis set them up to hire again when the outlook of the franchise may create a better pool of candidates.
I think they hoped he’d succeed but worst case is getting someone with a pretty decent profile to face the franchise while getting these two worst years (let’s hope) out of the way.
They are poised to hire a better coach to keep take them to a higher level. If that doesn’t happen Im 100% on board that it’s on Kahn.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Kurt is a big blunder for the reason you state.
He is an awful coach. The young talent we did get had their growth stunted. Who knows what Johnny Flynn could have been, even though I suspect he was a giant reach and his cieling is not that high. And the team became awful on offense, defense, transition, late game situations. Basically everything.
When any competent coach would have been better, then I call Rambis a big blunder and a waste of two years.
by Darth Tugits on Jul 13, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
That I agree with
I think he impeded the growth of the young players and that is why he was fired.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Agree Darth
Although I was fine with Darko, ain’t much money for a center on a 3 year contract.
But those other three are pretty big mistakes.
I'm with you on Darko...
…he was just misused by Rambis. I think he can still be useful off the bench for 15-20mins/game, and NOT the offensive focus.
Also, I think another BIG blunder was trading Al Jefferson. What did we get for our only fringe(?) all star when Kahn took over? Yes, he had a large contract. The lack of cap space use was a major opportunity cost. And closed about 4 of Kahn’s 15 windows.
The Jefferson cap space
is the only reason we have Anthony Randolph on the roster.
Of course, we need to see what Randolph becomes to know whether it was good or bad…
Are you kidding?
Randolph made less than 2mil last year. Which means after trading Al we left over 10mil in raw cap space on the bone. Kahn had 8 or 9 months to turn that into roster talent prior to the trade deadline. Now that figure has eroded to less than 4mil (under the current CBA) and will be close to nothing as soon as extensions on our current roster are signed. In my estimation this was a MAJOR miss in talent accumulation. Now we will need to trade pieces to free up cap space or roll with what’s on the roster.
I am not kidding.
Randolph was our compensation for using our cap space to absorb Curry’s salary so Melo could go to the Knicks. Without that big capspace, we would not have Randolph.
Unless you think the Knicks would have traded Randolph for Brewer straight up!
Despite the sarcasm
It really could be a GREAT trade. Give Randoph some time before you toss him to the curb.
I like Randolph a lot
but in terms return for Al, I think it’s terrible.
I really wanted to add someone like Bogut (he would just be awesome) or Gortat (good fit, very friend contract). Even Iggy, Granger, Kevin Martin, Josh Smith, anyone! I know there are salary/contract implications here as well, but in order to extend everyone on the roster (namely Beasley and Love), we will HAVE to go over the cap. The opportunity missed was adding as much talent as possible BEFORE going over.
How much time need we give Randolph?
He is a good athlete, but he has not gotten any better since coming into the league. He is an absolutely terrible post defender with little idea of what he’s doing on a basketball court. He occasionally blocks shots and occasionally makes uber-athletic plays. He needs to step up quite a bit to be even an average NBA player. I hope he does so this year, I just have my doubts.
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 13, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Weren't there picks for Al as well?
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah. 2 heavily protected first rounders....
one of which Kahn deftly turned into a mid-second rounder and a bunch of cash.
Ugh
You forget that #20 was dealt for a future first.
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 13, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
NY wanted nothing to do with Randolph and there were a million trade rumors of him coming to MN
If we wouldn’t have had Al’s capspace, we would have worked out a different deal.
Running & Strength Training
Stop-n-Pop,
If you are concerned about combining strength training and your running program and the effects of doing so, you should check out Discover Strength in Plymouth. Here is a link that explains their philosophies on high-intensity strength training and distance running:
Thanks
I’ll check them out. I do 45 minutes of kettlebell twice a week after a 3 mile run and I do a crossfit series once a week before a run. From everything I’ve read on the subject, less seems to be more when strength training for distance running. I’m really enjoying the kettlebell stuff. It’s absolutely fantastic. Thanks for the rec.
Nelson?
Did you guys see the ESPN story saying Nellie wants to coach the Wolves?
Not yet
But it’s interesting that someone of note does.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
Nellie ball with defense?
Nellie-ball is fun to watch and matches Kahn’s style of running, but Nellie-ball has never been lock down defensively and our D HAS to improve. I can see Kahn doing this just to stork his own ego of getting a “name” hire to work here.
by Darth Tugits on Jul 13, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed... Also think Nellie is kind of power hungry and would cause trouble
I would be intrigued by what he’d do with all of our assets on offense.
The Wolves are getting a lot of national press this week
Some good, the rest David Kahn.
"The journey of 1000 miles has begun. Baby steps...Baby Jesus steps, that is."
http://www.cheap-and-easy-car-insurance.com
I can not look at the screen and type
Two finger hunt and peck method and am too lazy to proofread. My bad.
by Darth Tugits on Jul 14, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Kahn may very well be incompetent
but it is more accurate to say, at this point, that he is all in on Rubio. That’s more true now than ever. If Rubio becomes a star, so does Kahn. If Rubio flops, so does Kahn. If it’s somewhere in between, I don’t know what happens to Kahn. Probably depends on Wes Johnson and Derrick Williams.
Without a doubt
His future depends on those three assets.
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
So far we have been able to blame the coach.
It seems like the players are better potential wise. Many have less experience than the players coming in the Boston trade. So there’s that.
Like it or not, I think we give it one year. If Kahn hires two bad coaches and if next years team wins less than 1/3 of its games then we should know.
You sunk my battleship
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 13, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jul 13, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Kahn deserves huge props for financially managing the team
Small praise but we have very tradeable assets and no big contracts.
The days of Marko, T-Hud, Madsen’s ridiculously long deals are behind us.
All of the ripping of Kahn really comes down to a few draft choices and the coach. Dumping Al was the smart thing to do. Tell the GM who hasn’t made bad draft picks and coaching selections. It happens. Get over it.
For the record, I’m not a “Kahn-supporter”. But just practical. Maybe it’s dumb like and he doesn’t know what he’s doing. It’s just when I analyze his moves I can’t really come up with better ones.
Kind of reminds me of politics. Talk radio is filled with people ripping the other side. Ever notice they never share better ideas?
by Rodman99 on Jul 13, 2011 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
The part about who is on the team and financial position....
We have no idea what parameters Kahn is given to work with by Taylor. If Taylor has told him to cut payroll and get a bunch of cheap young talent, then the roster that we have an people use to label Kahn as a dope because we lack talent and veterans might be somewhat out of his control.
Nobody knows how much of that, if any, is instruction from the man with the checkbook. And those who hate the roster but would have pulled every trade to get the Iggies and Grangers, and Gortats could find you have a higher payroll, no youth and a team that can’t go past the first round of the playoffs.
It is not as easy at it looks from your keyboard.
by Darth Tugits on Jul 13, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
was just referring to the contracts
That McHale gave out. 6 yrds for Marko and Troy. 7 yrs for Madsen.
by Rodman99 on Jul 13, 2011 1:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Waaah wu wu waaa
We get it, you don’t like Kahn. Please tell us more about your running and what bands you like, great forum for it!
If only there was a way you could avoid reading those articles
Wait, I thought of one! Don’t come to the site!
by Madsen's 3-Point Barrage on Jul 13, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, one thing'
NBA players do smoke marijuana...smoking weed in the off-season sometimes is my personal choice and personal opinion...I don't think that's stopping me from doing my job — Josh Howard
Note to self
do not hit Return while typing a comment.
Another thing that’s for sure: J.B. Bickerstaff won’t be our new coach.
NBA players do smoke marijuana...smoking weed in the off-season sometimes is my personal choice and personal opinion...I don't think that's stopping me from doing my job — Josh Howard
The most fascinating sub-plot this offseason
Is the secret McHale / Kahn feud.
Flynn and now two coaches that Kahn was (potentially) looking at.
Don’t know if Kahn is playing is some kind of Jeti mind trick on McHale or not (or vice versa). Either way one of them may look a horses arse at the end of this season (they both must be getting used to the roles).
by Rodman99 on Jul 13, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
To complete the bizarro back and forth
We have to hire Adelman.
by Rodman99 on Jul 13, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
there is no way adelman is coaching the worst team in league
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 13, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I doubt it too
But it really depends on what he thinks of our talent lavel. I’m guessing there are a lot of coaches interested in the Wolves.
Decent talent base and the chance to make millions. It beats sitting around.
Not sure how long Adelman’s contract was. I thought it ended so he’d wouldn’t be making any dough.
he even was interested in portland gm job over the openings that were available to him
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 13, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
adelman had interest in being the new gm for portland
by jadedeed2327 on Jul 14, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, he did. And he made a specific point of saying Nate was their coach right now, period.
So that was clearly the role he was looking to fill there.
I don't think HOU wanted Flynn that much
They wanted Motiejunas. I could be wrong, but it seems like they just got rid of a rich man’s Flynn in Aaron Brooks.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jul 13, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
What is the story on that?
I’ve begun to notice how Kahn likes to put the boot into McHale whenever he communicates with the media.
Here's my basic rule
Coaches can get a team to play above or below their talent, but organizations and/or players get them to a championship contender. This team should’ve won at least 45-50 games combined in the past 2 seasons. That’s on Rambis. It’s on Kahn (and McHale before him) that this team hasn’t rebuilt from trading KG. I don’t think either have done a good job, but the fruits of Kahn’s misdeeds will be borne if this collection of players has a low ceiling. Rambis’ misdeeds were borne on the court with them not going above their floor. Teams can win in spite of management; it’s much tougher to win in spite of coaching.
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 13, 2011 5:49 PM CDT reply actions
Just to clarify
45-50 combined in two seasons would roughly be about what they got in the 2 seasons after the KG trade.
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 13, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Nicely put.
Rambis had a legitimate opportunity to show whether or not he could coach basketball in a way that led to a young team’s improvement, and he failed.
Kahn’s job is easier to assess, move by move, and the early results are not good. However, Rubio and Williams have yet to play a game so it is possible that he’s put together a nice foundation for the future. It would certainly be reasonable if he were already fired, but I don’t think it would be entirely fair to him if in fact Rubio becomes a star that leads this team to steady and significant improvement.
I'm slowly gaining a new appreciation for what McHale...
….did, even post-WCF. He took a lot of flack that should have fell directly at the feet of Moor and Taylor. Do I wish he was still here? No, but I think he was much better at hiding the basic weakness of this team: Moor and Taylor. They run the clown show.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 13, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rember McFail...
A new appreciation? Remember, this is the guy that got Foye instead of Roy or Gay. The guy who cost us how many draft picks? And yes, I’m including Ndudi Ebi as a lost draft pick. The guy who trade Cassell for Jaric, which was a big enough of a blunder, not to mention including next year’s #1 pick. Bad contracts, bad drafts, bad negotiations, bad coaches, the list goes on and on. As I’ve said before, not a fan of Kahn, should’ve never been hired, but from what I could tell, no one really qualified actually wanted the job under the conditions they were presented. So, one year to clean up the contractual mess, and one more year to really see how poor our entire coaching staff, particularly Rambis, really was. I still think that with the right coach, we’ll see a dramatic turnaround next year….when and IF it takes place.
"Life is hard...it's even harder if you're stupid" - John Wayne
I know
I just think he covered up a lot of Moor and Taylor did. I don’t want him back but he was able to hide the clown show better than Kahn…who just adds to it.
Are you talking about when he was GM when Garnett was still on the team, or when he was coach after the big trade?
Fire Slocum
by packallday555 on Jul 14, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
The whole time
The more I learn about his time here, the more I realize that Moor and Taylor were the problem and that the combo of McHale coaching with HoiStackCock GMing was probably the best real option this fanbase could have hoped for with those two clowns at the top.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 14, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m sure the money or notoriety to write an expose on not-quite-contender and then bottom feeding NBA team would not make it worth anyone’s while to burn bridges, but I sure would like the unabridged inside scoop of the time since Taylor bought the team at some point.
Glen Taylor's wayward daughter...
….was “saved” by Rob Moor. His gift? Control of the Wolves. The end. That’s the abridged version.
Pop
There are tons of relevant side bars on this thread which you are avoiding and you seem to be hung up on this Kahn thing. I don’t want to offend you but it’s boring and you have so much to add to the rest of the thread.
Let it go and bring us your A game!
"All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner." -Twain
by Tangerine dream on Jul 14, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously?
There should have been a thunderclap in here sometime around your “McHale was the best we could have hoped for….” moment.
This “wayward daughter” idea is just so “The Big Sleep” that I’m going to go watch Bogart tugging thoughtfully on his own ear while the old man talks about orchids right now…. Yeah, that might be the healthiest possible response to this idea.
I'm a resident McHale apologist here
Part of what SNP is getting at here is that McHale is subject to the whims of Taylor & Moor. There have been rumors over the years that:
- McHale fell on the sword for Taylor on the Joe Smith deal (the picks)
- The Hudson and Hassell contacts were pushed by KG via Taylor
- KG wasn’t traded sooner (getting a higher net return) due to Taylor’s lack of willingness to sign off
I would add to this:
On the draft picks, I am not sure the track record is that bad at all. In the top 10, they got KG, Marbury, and Wally. Rasho at 17 was a good get. You would rather have Granger over McCants, but thirteen other teams passed on Granger and McCants could have turned out differently without that microfracture injury. His ups and quickness were never the same after that. Roy/Foye is the classic example of a McHale mistake, but they passed on Roy for injury concerns and look what is going on now. I would say Brew over Noah is just as big of a miss. Are either of those really any worse than Jonny over Curry? Foye was at least a legit starter for a few years. Wes may or may not be any better than Brew. I know Ebi gets good laughs, and you could add Paul Grant to the list. But has a guy like Wayne picked in basically the same spot helped the team any more or less than Ebi?
The other thing that was going on in the NBA was that if you had a max player after the first KG contract, you couldn’t afford to make a mistake and have to retool. The system was unforgiving. McHale recovered nicely from Stephon’s meltdown. While the new team didn’t have the same championship upside, they were really solid. My favorite Wolves team of all time was the Brandon/Sealy/Wally/KG/Dean team with Peeler, Rasho, Sam, Bobby J, and Joe Smith coming off the bench. Then Brandon got his microfracture injury when Chauncey was a free agent and Wally lost a step with his foot issues. Retooling the second time eventually led to the WCF team but it was a short-term play. The only way to beat the system was to get great MLE players, which they never seemed to be able to do – part of which I put on KG. There was an annual frenzy over MLE players which is how the Jaric deal happened. He was in demand, it was going to be the Wolves or someone else that overpaid. It doesn’t excuse it, but it explains it.
As I have mentioned here, the biggest reason to have McHale nostalgia now is that he built good (in terms of winning, not “potential”) not once but twice. The PBO now hasn’t done it here or anywhere else, and two years in there is no reason for further confidence.
The biggest complaint I have with McHale is on the coaching front post-Flip. In retrospect, it seems pretty clear he knew how he wanted to team to play after Flip and especially after KG. He tried to have Wittman be his mouthpiece, but Wittman sucks. It was lazy, and he waited too long to go to the bench. McHale was a good coach, especially during the last run.
One more note on the contracts – they had burned off all of the bad contracts under the old regime. Kahn inherited cap flexibility. The only way he has used it is on guys like Sessions, Hollins, Darko, Ridnour, etc. There is this myth that he created cap space, perhaps because there is an inherent need to explain why he hasn’t accomplished much in these first two years.
I love how that picture perfectly captures Kahn's patronizations...
…“I just gave to a line of total BS //look\\ but you will nod knowingly and pretend to believe it.”
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