Why did Mark Jackson wind up coaching Golden State, and not the Wolves?
by feral on Sep 4, 2011 9:00 AM CDT
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PrintOne of the obvious objections to Mark Jackson as a head coaching candidate was always that he hadn't paid his dues as an Assistant Coach or in any team's front office. Other wannabe head men – Patrick Ewing, for example – have spent several years waiting for interviews. Why should Mark Jackson be given a pass? Being a point guard isn't necessarily enough, is it?
I'd imagined that positional bias was the main explanation for Jackson's being interviewed here. Catchers and utility infielders make good baseball managers, and point guards become basketball coaches. Still, even Nate McMillan did some time as an assistant, and Brian Shaw – another PG/"Utility Infielder" sort of player – has put in several years without being hired to lead a team.
Who knew, though, that Jackson's coaching fate was in fact being dictated by The Almighty?
Why, Jackson knew, apparently:
"I believe that I was called to coach the Warriors and use that platform, so the pressure is not on me to do it," Jackson said. "I fully surrender and submit to God that there will be plenty of opportunities to get home to my ministry, but I'm not going to compromise my calling as the head coach of the Golden State Warriors."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/09/01/SPSB1KTB3R.DTL&ao=3#ixzz1WzVzYzk8
Feeling jealous as a Wolves fan? (God hired him out from under us!) Well, feast your eyes on God's further pronouncements with respect to the Warriors:
"I look at the talent, the upside, the draft, the coaching staff and the culture change," Jackson said. "I am not a guy who would say, 'We're going to playoffs' because it's a great headline. That's not me. In fact, people were shocked that I said only that, because that's not all I believe.
"I've been a winner all of my life, and I truly believe that great things are about to happen."
And he believes a higher power will show the way.
"I don't believe it's pressure on me, because my only job is to speak what I believe and then watch what God does," Jackson said. "Sometimes folks will stumble into blessings because of the overflow of favor on my life.
"An old pastor said, 'Favor ain't fair, but it sure is fabulous.' "
The level of arrogance, here.... It is staggering.
It pains me to think that the out-of-check egotism represented here was probably among the strongest reasons for which Jackson, never having done the necessary work to become a head coach, was probably considered too early and too eagerly by the sorts of people who run NBA franchises. If this sort of "God wants me to hit home runs" self-involvement is what passes for being an upstanding citizen.... Yikes.
I have nothing against sincerely held religious beliefs. Lorenzo Romar, when he was on the Wolves' radar briefly last spring, seemed like an example of someone who held such beliefs and wanted to stay in his college position partly because of them. But there's a difference between that and being a schmuck. This kind of crap doesn't glorify religion, it cheapens it.
(Groan.)
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Mark Jackson's count of NBA Championships:Zero.
God apparently didn’t want to use him as an example for that. Maybe it’s because Jackson wasn’t ordained yet.
"Sometimes folks will stumble into piles of shit because of the overflow of BS pouring out of my mouth"
I think God has a special place reserved for Mark Jackson.
On the plus side, now I can root against someone besides Kobe.
I don't understand your disdain.
He is not being arrogant here, he’s simply acknowledging all of his blessings. He’s saying God has overflowed his life with blessings to the point where others around him are blessed.
Is that wrong to believe?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Sep 8, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you check this out?
"These people don’t care about anything I’ve done or will do in basketball," Jackson said. "They’d kill for me because of what I’ve done at this church in the past two years."
First he says he thinks the team’s going to do well because:
“Sometimes folks will stumble into blessings because of the overflow of favor on my life.
“An old pastor said, ‘Favor ain’t fair, but it sure is fabulous.’ "
God likes Mark Jackson, and isn’t it grand? I’m not sure when that crosses the line into plain boasting.
But then he also talks about people who’d willingly kill for him. Uh, yeah, that isn’t “acknowledging his blessings.” It’s called being drunk with ego.
As long as Curry doesn't shank Tyreke next season,
I’ll just chalk it up to an overly optimistic view on life.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Sep 9, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Figure of speech.
Relax.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Sep 9, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever works.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Sep 9, 2011 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I might be on the weird side,
but I think he’s delusional to believe even the most benign version of his beliefs.
No evidence = no good reason for belief.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 8, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Although he doesn't know it,
and likely wouldn’t care if he did, it’s people like Jackson and Cris Carter and Reggie White who contribute to the notion that overt Christianists are a pack of knuckleheads.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
Please, convince me this isn't one of the major factors that got him in the door for interviews.
I don’t really know that much about the other two people you mention. Didn’t Cris Carter have a sort of AA conversion? Reggie White’s proselytizing behaviors were more like the typical “point upward after a touchdown”-level stuff, at least from what little I saw of football then.
This is some sort of unholy cross between guaranteeing a win on Sunday and claiming God’s personal favor. Somewhere Satan’s team is pinning this to the bulletin board – it’s on that level of superficiality.
I hate to think that this goofiness is what propped so many interview doors open for the guy. “That Mark Jackson, he’s a straight arrow.” Eck.
Re: Reggie White.
White’s retirement was not without controversy. He created a stir in March 1998 with his comments before the Wisconsin state legislature, invoking racial stereotypes of Latinos, Asians, whites, blacks, and Native Americans. He stated that these diverse “gifts” of each race, “formed a complete image of God […] because He was trying to create Himself”. An image that society had pushed aside, leading to the aversion of racial unity. He specified that “without assimilation there’s no desegregation, nor is there integration, because people of all ethnic backgrounds have to be able to compete economically in order to build their families.”
Later, in an interview with ABC’s 20/20, White made remarks about gays and lesbians. Subsequently, White became an ally of organizations opposed to homosexuality; he appeared in a newspaper advertising campaign to convince gays and lesbians that they could “cease” their homosexuality. As a result, CBS withdrew a five-year, $6 million contract for being a part of the pregame panel because of his statements calling homosexuality a sin.34 Both the Green Bay Packers and the NFL objected to the ads, since White had appeared in his football uniform without the consent of the team or the league. Later versions of the ad removed the uniform.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Sep 4, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, I don't happen to agree with his particular view on those social issues,
and as a league I would object to his implying a connection back to the NFL.
Still, though, there is at least some “religious” view, there, other than completely naked, empty self-aggrandizement.
I see where you're coming from,
and I even agree with you. Except that I think the difference between the three is in degree, not in kind. Carter and White, in my view, spoke the way they did to make other people think a certain way about them, just as Jackson does. It’s a bunch of "I’m a Good Person™ because I’m a Christian. See how I say “God” and “Jesus” a lot?"
I agree that Jackson is more obnoxious, and he seems less conscious of how ridiculous he sounds.
It’s like Dawkins likes to point out: It’s not that all Christians are stupid, hateful people. It’s just that the reasonable Christians give a measure of cover to the whack-jobs. And that’s where the danger lies in the otherwise-benign territory of religious belief.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 4, 2011 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
On their own terms: Matthew 6:5
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.
And POP goes the bubble full of ego.
by feral on Sep 5, 2011 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now I am glad Jackson isn't coaching here.
That was certainly some goofy sh*t to say.
Good post, Feral.
The article clearly gets it wrong by saying Tony Dungy is Ordained
Also 7th day Adventists can be a bit out there sometimes. Also somewhere there needs to be the discussion about what Jackson has done to become a pastor. As a preacher’s kid myself my dad spent 4 years of undergrad and 4 years getting his masters of divinity. Different churches have different requirements and so forth. This sometimes can lead to pastors who don’t understand the context etc in what is being talked about in the Bible (see Jackson, Mark).
He no doubt has a sincere faith and wants to serve God in his job (calling to Mr. Jackson). I have enough super evangelical type friends that I can translate for you all.
“I believe that I was called to coach the Warriors and use that platform, so the pressure is not on me to do it,” Jackson said. “I fully surrender and submit to God that there will be plenty of opportunities to get home to my ministry, but I’m not going to compromise my calling as the head coach of the Golden State Warriors.”
Although it sounds all grandiose all he really means by this is that as a pastor/coach God gave him the opportunity to help coach. (The article notes that it is also nice because he gets to be close to his family). When he talks about pressure he probably just means that “God will work through him as the head coach and he doesn’t have to worry about trying extra hard to win souls” This is good because his main job is to win games. In the second sentence he is just telling fans that they don’t need to worry about him putting his church before the warriors. God will give him opportunities to be back home, but they shouldn’t interfere.
On the second stuff he said… He said they would make the playoffs because he likes the pieces he has there. He also has faith in the abilities that God gave him. The “I only speak and watch what God does” part is a little odd. I guess he is expecting the Holy Spirit to work in his players and improve their skill and work ethic. I think most Christians would agree that that is probably not the Holy Spirit’s job. However, he is basically saying that he will coach, his players will respond, and then they will need some lucky bounces (which God will provide).
Instead of speaking Black English Vernacular or another dialog he just speaks Evangelical. Sure it makes us scratch our heads and laugh sometimes, but what he means isn’t as ridiculous as it sounds.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Sep 4, 2011 12:53 PM CDT reply actions
My evangelical relations have tracts in a little rack at the back of their church sanctuary,
and I think this one goes pretty far even for them. I agree with you about his ordination. He didn’t take the “at least feign humility” classes, we know that at least.
Do we really get to “translate” this kind of self-aggrandizement into something else with different intentions? When you say that your team’s going to win because
Sometimes folks will stumble into blessings because of the overflow of favor on my life…. ‘Favor ain’t fair, but it sure is fabulous.’
what is that except pure egotism? Criminy, the “fabulous” this is basically nothing but a gloat. It’s like “prosperity theology,” only about winning ball games.
Lorenzo Romar’s religious views didn’t put me off at all. I preferred him to Adelman when this cycle started. (Me on June 24: As often as fans pine for established names and so on, I’d really rather attempt our Lorenzo Romar experiment. The tired look on Rick Adelman’s or Mike D’Antoni’s face at Target Center would take energy out of me.)
There is just a huge difference between Mark Jackson’s delivery of this spiel and the sort of person Lorenzo Romar really seems to be. Romar quoted:
Oddly enough, my life became harder, not easier, after I became a Christian. ….(M)y win/loss record has zero bearing on my status with Him. God loves me for who I am, not what I do.
Compare that with the guy who claims his team’s going to win because his cup runneth over with God’s favor. I know which coach I’d hire, and which person is projecting his own ego on God’s face.
agreed prosperity gospel is pretty ridiculous
I like Romar’s view a heck of a lot more as well. I just meant that his view of life etc is just screwed up, not so much that he was just an egotistical jerk if that makes sense.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Sep 4, 2011 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm thinking about starting a church/sports bar religion
With snake handling during the commercials and alcohol-based glossolalia during the halftime shows.
Basketball is basketball. – Oscar Robinson
snake handling!!!!!
That stuff is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Sep 5, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
That is pretty over-the-top
but I’d guess the biggest reasons for his quick jump to head coaching are his reputation as a player over a very-long career, and his time with Jeff Van Gundy in the booth.
I did not want, and would not want, Mark Jackson as Wolves coach. But, I think he jumped into conversations because of his voice during the last few NBA Playoffs.
The position thing may matter some, too, like with Avery Johnson, whose point guard career had him in line for coaching immediately post-retirement (spent short time as assistant, but with understanding he was head coach in waiting, I believe.)
I have a lot of trouble comparing him to other prospective coaches, though, and asking why he's so different.
He did no work to prepare himself to be a head coach.
Brian Shaw is out there, and looks like a great candidate to be a head man after his long tutelage under Phil Jackson. Shaw didn’t get a real shot in L.A., and apparently won’t this season. Mark Jackson does, because he speaks well on TV? Hey, man, Brian Shaw looks great in a suit. Doesn’t that count for anything? It should count for just about as much as Mark Jackson’s rather mediocre color commentary on TV.
I swear, the “He’s a religious straight arrow and therefore a leader of men” angle seems like it loomed large. Jackson himself is saying this stuff in a way that strongly suggests that. (Shudder.)
Yeah, the more I think about it..
I have no idea and you may be on to something with this.
But how was he getting in the door for the interviews? Were his religious views widely known and a part of the appeal?
Coaching involves a great deal of networking, and Mark has somehow done that well, to get his head coaching gig before assistant coaching. That’s a title usually reserved for legendary players, like Kevin McHale and Larry Bird (neither ever sat on a bench before head coaching, right?) I’m not sure.
I agree about the mediocre color work. I enjoy Van Gundy. Without having to nitpick every time he says something questionable, I think he’s funny and insightful. Mark makes simple analysis and his own cliche’s. He won’t be missed as a color guy.
You're right, he has to have been good at "networking" his message out, whatever that message was.
Maybe that’s the explanation. Heck, a lot of incredibly bland politicians make their way by their skills networking for money, though they have no message to speak of at all.
From 1992 until 1997 Larry Bird was a “special assistant” in Indiana’s front office.
McHale is kind of a weird case, because he actually got his front office responsibility before he’d done more than be a color commentator, officially. Even there, though, he’d been a de facto positional coach, and he’d also been instrumental in the Wolves trading for Gugliotta when it wasn’t his actual GM “watch” yet. And it was Glen Taylor.
How predictable was it that Kevin McHale would have big weaknesses that hadn’t been addressed due to his lack of experience? These things do have consequences. As VPOBO, he had multiple contract negotiations blow up in his face. As head coach, his play boards were, as Anthony Carter said, like an Etch-a-Sketch some kid was fooling around on. People get something out of experience.
McHale
really struck gold with KG. Not only drafting him, but helping develop his game so quickly. I mean, drafting KG at 5 is one thing, but look at who was drafted after KG…
But once that great move was made, and the foundation was set, he totally lacked front office savvy with the types of little moves that separate the mere good teams from the great ones.
I’m interested to see what happens in Golden State. Gun to my head right now, assuming 82-game season, I’d peg them at 40 wins, and that isn’t because I think Jackson is a good coach as much as I think they’ve been hurt by injuries and Curry is still getting better.
Hey, they won 36 last season.
Maybe God can swing an extra 4 victories.
Their defensive play will be especially interesting. That goes hand in hand with their talent in the backcourt, to a large extent. Even past that though, we don’t know jack about Jackson’s X-and-O abilities or rotations. He has no record, at all, to go by. Kevin McHale’s “Smash Mouth” opinions were deeper than what we have on Jackson.
GS did great to land Curry in '09...
but boy could they have done better in ’10 with Greg Monroe instead of Ekpe Udoh. Look at this rookie comparison, and note the ages.
The older project gets drafted ahead of the polished well-rounded Georgetown big.
But, you know, Greg Monroe isn’t explosive…. Or….. something?
That was a head-scratcher from the outset.
Like LoveTo says, Curry-Monroe would be a nice young combo.
Visibility
Jackson got his shot because of his career cred as a point guard and his exposure on television, plain & simple. His ‘religiousity’ is put out there as a way of saying he can be trusted to be serious about following through as a coach. His spiritual bravado is off-putting, to be sure. I doubt he intended it that way, but like many, he is clueless about how such speech plays to the general public. I was unaware of this ‘high calling’ of his. I felt as a commentator he was mediocre. I feel the same about Van Gundy. I think he will be an ineffectual coach and after a short time will lose that job.
Yes, "Spiritual Bravado":
for people who think of Jesus as a cocksure running back spiking the ball in the end zone.
I always though Jesus was more of the Barry Sanders type
flashy moves to get to the end zone and then hands the ball to the ref.
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Sep 6, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I always thought of Jesus as the Rod Tidwell type.
He does great things, but in the end, he’s just a fictional character.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
i'll respectfully disagree
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Sep 6, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Bah!
You and your respect. Haha.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I always thought of Jesus wearing a tuxedo T-Shirt.
Because it says I’m formal, but I’m also here to party.
Or a boxer
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
Jesus plays all sort of sports, for the Catholic knickknack makers:
Price: $19.95
Jesus on the Soccer Field captures the delight that Christ feels when we strive to do our best. Team-work and goal setting are other values that are demonstrated. 9″ × 11″ with walnut finished frame
St. Jude Shop, Inc: Building a Chapel in Everyone’s Heart
Wow.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
A real fütballer, Jesus.
From www.catholicsupply.com:
Soccer Jesus Sports Statue
To remind children that Jesus is with them always. A contemporary statue for today’s youth. Jesus is with us in everything we do, watching over us & involved in all of our acts & activities.
Resin. Approx. 6" tall. As seen on The Conan O’Brien Show!
SOCCER (Item #34427) $21.95
I like that one ‘cause the kids are going to be so confused. What happened to the ball that time?? It must’ve been Jesus dribbling it; he’s got a great midfield game!
Jesus also can help you deal with inside pitches. He’s got quick hands. And no, I didn’t mean in a creepy way.
BEST SELLER!
Baseball Jesus Sports Statue
There are no words.
Also, no more images in my brain. I am blind in my brain.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Also,
that catcher is clearly about to take a bat to the back of the head. On the other hand—what better way to make Christians?%
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey,
if Jebus wants you to suffer cranial trauma, you’re going to suffer cranial trauma.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't believe that his religious views were the reason GSW hired him.
It’s not like that’s a big draw in heathen NorCal, and I really doubt that there is a Christian faction of the new ownership group, given what I know about the main players. It is a puzzling hire to me, given that the Warriors were really looking for the same stamp of legitimacy that the Wolves wanted, and the owners seem smart enough to know what to look for in that regard.
However, the most over-the-top statement from Jackson in that SFGate article was this quote:
“These people don’t care about anything I’ve done or will do in basketball,” Jackson said. “They’d kill for me because of what I’ve done at this church in the past two years.”First off, what an incredible ego. Second, what man of God would proudly proclaim that his followers would kill for him?
I'll put it to you this way:
The perception that Mark Jackson was ‘a straight arrow and a solid leader’ partly because he’s Mr. Ordained Religious Guy will have played some role, there. He’s clearly not being shy with it, is he?
That quote…. My eyes! The ego-shielding goggles do nothing!
The more I hear of this stuff
(and, believe me, I’m not doing any searching on my own), the more I’m ecstatic he’s not the coach here. And the more I’d like to see him dropped into a pit of syphilitic cobras.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?
“You’d like to see him dropped into a pit of syphilitic cobras” because he’s an egotistical over the top religious guys? There are some folks that deserve that, but Mr. Jackson isn’t one of them. Isn’t him eating his words enough for you?
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Sep 6, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd like to think
that the hyperbole of my post would speak for the seriousness with which I regard it.
Truth be told, I’m (at least theoretically) an absolute pacifist. I wouldn’t even drop him into a pit of cobras without syphilis.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Two things about the history of syphilis:
When it was a new, “virgin soil” (no pun) epidemic, its effects were hideously, spectacularly, horribly worse than the admittedly awful symptoms we’re used to thinking about. I don’t want to go there, but syphilis was a nightmare of the worst sort.
Back then, every country named it after their enemies. It was “the French disease” or “the Italian disease,” or the ____ disease for the country you’d recently been at war with. Everyone (rightly) blamed it on military camps and their hangers on, but of course it was only the enemy’s prostitutes who were responsible.
Also the only bad thing revieved by the Europeans in the colombian exchange
I'm Trill, I'm running w/ the WOLVES
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Sep 6, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
So easy . . .
His sloppy dribble. His willingness to give it to the other team.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Sep 6, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
If the historical Syph appeared today, people would surely see it as a sign of the apocalypse.
Perhaps we should reevaluate Flynn’s tenure in that light.
Brought to you by syphilis
"We must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error in our own truth." - RN
by nja700 on Sep 6, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
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