Two Horsemen of the Hornepocalypse
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 13, 2012 9:59 PM CST
Email
PrintSo, I guess we'll just root for 45 minutes of Love and Rubio every night. That's a solid long term plan.
(crickets)
We'll pull out a trick from the old On the Ball website and do a double gamewrap after tomorow night's game. Tonight's tilt was pretty...well, it was bad. Rubio plus an amazing half from Love = a narrow victory over an awful Hornets squad.
Boy, the Hornets sure got a lot of production tonight from Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Aminu, and the future Wolves pick. I bet potential owners are beating down the league's door to get in on that action.
Finally, did you know it is Friday the 13th? Thank you, NOLA announcers!
We'll do a bigger recap after tomorrow's game. Until then, what say you?
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Just saw Rubio's stat line
on the ESPN bottom line. I watched the game, but he contributed in every aspect. Plus he made free throws.
AR > Darko
Maurice Jones-Drew > Wes Johnson. Go Jags!
Another blog is saying he got screwed out of an assist
Remember that nifty behind the back pass to love who spun and scored? That was not credited as an assist.
Call it a moral double double.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
it is a certainty
i bet Vegas won’t give you odds on it.
by new5thpants on Jan 13, 2012 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
It will be #1
don’t take it too hard. It would NOT be #1 if we still had it.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 13, 2012 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
and it will definitely
be for “basketball reasons.”
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on Jan 13, 2012 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Conference record is 3-2
Rubios - "Clinically PROVEN to Help Reduce Suckiness"
by PoohRubio on Jan 13, 2012 10:04 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Wow, very interesting detail.
Relatedly, I don’t think it’s been said enough: We are definitely in the best division in the league. Hands down.
It's not global warming...it's the Rubio effect.
by BrettAhlgren on Jan 14, 2012 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
Its amazing how Ricky transforms any lineup he plays with
The bench without him couldn’t get anything going, but all of a sudden the starters are all playing 30+ mins, and its thanks to Ricky.
Imagine if he had started from the bench today, the Wolves wouldn’t even be close. Great call by Adelman.
We desperately need Beas, JJ, and Martell
to return. Right now we have one borderline elite player (Love), one very good starter (Rubio), one excellent backup (Ridnour), and a motley crew of below average players.
by xraraavis on Jan 13, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"below average" is being generous
I can’t think of a single conceivable starting lineup in the history of basketball that includes Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic, AND Wes Johnson.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 14, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
His father is very much alive, however...
I saw Mr. and Mrs. Rubio at the merchandise stand at halftime of the Cleveland game, actually.
(I know…it’s a joke….I’m a wet blanket).
They were behind me in the line/cluster so I didn't stick around to scrutinize
their purchases, but looked like hats, mostly (winter hats…and I think Mrs. R asked to see a visor?). I only noticed them because they were speaking Spanish to each other and then I said, “heh…that looks like the Rubios,” (as I remember them from the Ricky presser). I didn’t check their IDs, but my googling efforts made me feel pretty confident it was them.
I would've had a hard time
keeping myself from turning around and yelling at them, “Thank you so much for letting us borrow your unicorn!”
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 14, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
If I had something remotely appropriate to say, I probably would have...
I am at the strange age though where I am way too old to be a giggly teenager, but still too young to be able to relate to them as parents like, “oh, that son of yours is so great!”. I think I’d have come off as a creeper.
That awkward age.
The one where social constraint prevents people from accosting strangers and shouting at them.
The only way you get past that is to consume a lot of crap pop media. Get on it.
"Opinion ...a confession."
How about one
that includes Jonny Flynn, Corey Brewer, AND Darko Milicic?
I know, incon, er, you know what I mean.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 14, 2012 8:25 AM CST up reply actions
I really liked Ridnour
starting alongside Rubio. I’d like it a lot more if JJ were backing them up, but as long as he keeps hitting shots Ridnour is probably our best “2.”
As long as he keeps hitting shots?
Ridnour was 0-2 with one free throw made in two attempts for the first quarter. In the third quarter he was 1 of 3 from the floor.
His starting per se doesn’t seem to have resulted in that many made shots – 1 of 5, with two shots from the line – in the stints involved.
"Opinion ...a confession."
51% from field, 38% from 3, and 80% from the line this season
Like it or not, he’s our best 2.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 14, 2012 8:27 AM CST up reply actions
coming into the game ridnour was 2nd only to chalmers fg% for pt guards and 16th in the entire league.no one can do it every night.
Maybe I'm being vague.
Does that mean he’s (most) effective starting alongside Rubio?
Because Rubio’s started one game, and in the two stints that a starting two-guard gets by virtue of being a starter, Ridnour wasn’t his usual self.
You just quoted stats among point guards. When he’s playing alongside Rubio, he’s not really the point guard.
"Opinion ...a confession."
What other options do we have though?
Ridnour/Rubio player pair is +11 on the season. I guess we could try to trot Ellington out there. He’d be better defensively, but there is a huge gap on offense.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 14, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
I was late getting back to this
but yes, I understand that you’re saying he played poorly directly next to Rubio in the small sample size, but there are a couple things I was looking at when making these statements. Luke has been a good shooter consistently through his career, to this point Wes and Wayne have not. I don’t expect Luke to continue hitting from 16-23 at a 71% clip, but I also won’t correlate that with a move from the lineup to 2… more that he’s been shooting unattainably well and the law of averages has to bump him down. I meant we should play him well as long as he hits his shots at or around a clip similar to his career %‘s over an extended stretch. If he’s really dysfunctional at 2, we should probably trade him because Luke actually has value in the league, unlike the bulk of our role players. If he could bring back a 2 who could start for us he would be more valuable than a 20 MPG backup PG. Either way, the only way to find out the future role is by starting Luke at 2 next to Rubio.
Also, as I’ve mentioned… Luke is hitting shots at a 71% clip from 16-23 this year. It’s uncanny. I don’t have the minute by minute numbers, but I’m sure he’s at least over 50 while sharing the court with Rubio this year. I care more about that amount of time than the 2 game sample.
My quick hits:
A win is in fact a win. Even when it’s horrible basketball.
I don’t remember us making any field goals in the last 6 minutes of the game. We probably did, but I don’t remember.
It was about damn time we hit some free throws. Especially since we couldn’t make an actual shot.
Rubio coulda had 20 assists tonight if his teammates could hit an open shot/ if Darko had hands at the end of his arms.
Wes Johnson playing after the third quarter…he didn’t embarrass himself but he’s just not good.
I’ve heard of “shot-creators” but KLove is a “we’re in the bonus non-shooting foul creator.”
Derrick Williams is lost right now.
Chris Kaman lost his playing time to someone named Gustavo Ayon.
Chiefs, Royals, Twolves. Fun life.
by RoyalFlush on Jan 13, 2012 10:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Lordy that fourth quarter looks extremely ugly.
Looking at the gameflow, it seems like Ellington sunk his one shot, a three, and Love was 2-4 from the floor. Other than that, the Wolves do not seem to have hit anything but free throws.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Worst broadcast i ever seen
Amateur hour over in nawlins. Deair god, dat shit wuz de worst shit i ever seen.
az fo de game mayn k love did hiz thang i thank he wuz readn de ch feed in timeouts and prollY chiefed on dt kill during half time cuz he went HAM in dat bitch mayn dude sed fuck you okafor i run dis hit an boom did hiz thang andmgot me mah mufuckin fantasy points thanks playboy and ricky mayn…dude iz a straight unicorn lmao!!!
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jan 13, 2012 10:08 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
It was almost better in the first quarter when there was no audio
Chiefs, Royals, Twolves. Fun life.
The two geniuses on the NO broadcast
make Hanne and JPete sound like network all-stars…
Waiting for Relevancy...
Breaking news: mythological unicorn fecal sample found on the streets on New Orleans
by Dr_Defecate on Jan 13, 2012 10:09 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Unicorn Poop or Unicorn Penis...
You decide!
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
That's a Grade A Fecal
trust me…i’m a doctor
by Dr_Defecate on Jan 13, 2012 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
If I had a nickel for every time I had to tell a unicorn poop from a unicorn penis....
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
by nja700 on Jan 13, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
that's
at least 5 Kourics big.
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on Jan 13, 2012 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
Ok, be honest
You lost a bet with the classic “your screenname/every comment you ever post must reference poop” punishment on the line, right?
It's not global warming...it's the Rubio effect.
by BrettAhlgren on Jan 14, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
there are very few things in life i am good at
and making juvenile-level offensive comments on internet boards is one of them
by Dr_Defecate on Jan 14, 2012 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Glowing rainbow colored unicorn feces
is the kind of subject matter that deserves it’s own thread….
The good doctor is an expert and I respect his acumen in such matters!
2012 the year of Twolves porcelain extraction?
Is Malcolm Lee healthy?
Chiefs, Royals, Twolves. Fun life.
If he was we would be starting at SG right now
He had to have surgery on his right knee (mcl) to repair a failed surgery from the end of last year. hopes to be back participating in practice at the end of the month.
I watch this team, and i care so much, simply because i can’t not. It’s just a part of who i am..
if a second round rrookie draft pick with no regular season experience was healthy right now
we’d have our starting SG.
If that doesn’t say everything you need to know about our options after Love and Rubio, I don’t know what could.
by dontbesomean youngfella on Jan 14, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
I picked a good game to skip and watch Moneyball, apparently
Another ho-hum awesome game from Love, though.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Love is really, urh, "filling the line" these days.
Fourth quarter alone:
2-4, missing a three
7-8 from the line
2 fouls
3 boards
3 TO
1 block
Whatever’s happening in there, he makes it happen. It ain’t always good, though.
"Opinion ...a confession."
11 assist as a team?
And Rubio had 9 of them= no passing or lots of missed shots or both?
Oh, you don't really want to know
Just read the standings tomorrow.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Jan 13, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
after looking at the box score
I am going to say, unequivocally yes.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 13, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
well
i suppose it’s an improvement to win crappy games rather than lose them?
if the league is going to allow tackling...
like the one Love took, Pek’s tattoo needs to get waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more minutes
Eh
I’d save the “Love was fouled!” line for a game in which he doesn’t attempt 18 FT’s, and we don’t score like 40% of our points from the line.
This season is going to result in some awful, awful games
I’m sure this game will have company at the bottom of the barrel by June.
Why is Tolliver playing so far below what I am used to?
Did he seem better than he was last year? Or is he just slumping like a mofo right now?
And speaking of our bigs, like many before me, I can’t figure out Anthony Randolph.
Chiefs, Royals, Twolves. Fun life.
he’s getting too many minutes and seems to no longer play within himself. He still contributes but he is definitely making more mistakes this year.
it's the Ridnour theory
A really good backup plays worse when forced in a starting role or too many minutes. They lose their role and try to do too much.
by TO12 on Jan 13, 2012 11:55 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
He’s also playing a lot more 3 than normal. He’s okay playing spot minutes at the 3 since he’s best used as a stretch 4/5. Once you play him at the 3, he’s not going to get the same looks. He might even get more ball handling responsibilities (he should have none). I think he’ll be fine but playing him at the 3 really puts the team at a disadvantage in terms of ball handling and creators.
by mikegrand15 on Jan 13, 2012 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
Imma email the NBA
and get Rubio his double double. I will try my best.
Joe Mauer grounded into double play, second to shortstop to first, ________ out at second
I will shamelessly repost this since I broke the rules of game threads
Jason Smith’s take of the officiating:
by YoLeo on Jan 13, 2012 10:43 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
that was my first impression
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 14, 2012 6:56 AM CST up reply actions
"Harry do you realize what you have done?"
“I’m sorry, my friend is a little slow. The nearest town is THAT way.”
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
by ArchAngel79 on Jan 14, 2012 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
It felt like the game lasted 10 hours.
Illegal Screen. Loose Ball Foul. Ilegal Screen. Block, Hand Check, (Timberwolves Enter bonus), Loose Ball Foul, Illegal Screen, Hand Check. End Quarter 1. Repeat.
I don’t know if 32 fouls is crazy abnormal for a team, but it’s definitely not enjoyable to watch.
Just WIn Baby. I wish the playoffs were decided by scoring margin.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
In the last three years, there've been 38 games where a team had 32 or more fouls.
"Opinion ...a confession."
how many of those games are against the wolves?
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 14, 2012 9:08 AM CST up reply actions
Check out the linked list.
Minnesota committed three of those 32-fouls-or-more games: At Houston, and at home to Sacramento and the Spurs.
Last night’s tilt was the only 32-foul game an opponent suffered against our pups.
"Opinion ...a confession."
A win is a win
Granted it was ugly and against a D-Leauge team, but it was on the road, with 10 players active, a couple starters and role players hurt, etc so RA did what they had to do to win.
They probably get blown out tomorrow and go 1-1 on road trip but still have chance at 2-0. Sure beats playing 15 guys, talking about individual/team accomplishments in stat areas, but a loss and spinning it as we’re almost there…
by PoohRichardson on Jan 13, 2012 11:09 PM CST reply actions
Also
I don’t think i’ve ever seen an NBA game played at the speed of the Heat -Nuggets right now, their late season run wasn’t a fluke.
The Nuggets (Affalo, Brew, Birdman, Gallo, Rudy, Nene, Lawson, Miller, Harrington) are such a deep and dangerous team. They’re going to be a really hard out over a 7 game series (and they’ll probably get Chandler back)
the nuggets
are SSOL fast, and they’re deep enough to run that offense.
That's one possible advantage of a compressed schedule.
Young, deep teams win more.
"Opinion ...a confession."
And here people were fretting about the guys they had stuck overseas
Also, who is their go to guy? Who is Philly’s “#1 option”? Teams can and do win with depth, defense, and efficient players.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 14, 2012 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
Glad to see the Wolves win
But the whole time I was watching three thoughts ran through my head:
- If Wes could make baskets and didn’t look terrified, this game would be over
- HOW CAN ADELMAN PLAY LOVE THIS MANY MINUTES WITH ATLANTA TOMORROW NIGHT?
- HOW CAN ADELMAN PLAY RUBIO THIS MANY MINUTES WITH ATLANTA TOMORROW NIGHT?
I wonder if Adelman is just planning to give ATL a bye tomorrow and play the bench (w/o Rubio) most of the game. Can’t ask these guys to play 40+ on back to back – asking for trouble.
Or was this a message to Kahn. GET HELP NOW! I HAVE TWO GUYS WORTH PLAYING SEE!
Why am I shouting?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
if he doesn't play rubio and love
we lose.
every team is going to be tired. even a day of rest doesn’t mean you are going to be fresh. you gotta take it one day/game at a time.
Wile E, you're shouting because
IT’S A VERY REASONABLE TIME TO SHOUT!
GET THEM A SG!!!
It's not global warming...it's the Rubio effect.
by BrettAhlgren on Jan 14, 2012 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
They’re both young, I doubt Adelman is going to hold them back at all. He’ll probably just hope that JJ is playing to get Rubio more rest and that the bigs (AR, DWill, Darko) are playing better so he can give Love some actual rest. I doubt he’s planning on giving ATL a bye tomorrow. Probably just really wanted to win in NO since that was a very winnable game.
by mikegrand15 on Jan 14, 2012 12:53 AM CST up reply actions
In the postgame interview
He said he wasn’t thinking about the next day and that he just wanted the win NOW
Jonny "back o' chips" Flynn is the GOAT
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 14, 2012 3:23 AM CST up reply actions
Pek should be plenty rested
and against Atlanta, he might be able to do some damage!
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Maybe I don't understand
But I just don’t get this notion that Adelman makes mid game decisions to send obscure messages to David Kahn. I can’t believe he doesn’t just tell him what he thinks
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 14, 2012 5:01 PM CST up reply actions
this game belonged in standard definition
(and it was, for me anyway).
but even if we lose the rest of our games, i still feel better than last year.
adelman is really funny on the sidelines with this facepalms. i think i counted 3 during the broadcast.
Darko CAN indeed dunk!!
I didn’t get to watch most of the game (which sounds like a good thing) but the one clip I saw at the bar was Darko on the receiving end of Rubio’s bounce pass and actually throwing it down! I can only hope he learns from that.
by jor the frenchie on Jan 13, 2012 11:35 PM CST reply actions
That was an awesome pass
Rubio makes it look easy, but some of these one-handed passes he throws are just ridiculous.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 14, 2012 8:39 AM CST up reply actions
How far out is Martel?
Anybody know? I heard he was about to start practicing with the team a week ago and…..I think we need to start a new thread…" how long will JJ milk it??"
Just try it...or you`ll never know
I want to know too!
Webster is a totally upgrade over Wes at the 2.
The comeback road
Martell Webster is headed home to Portland this weekend and will visit his doctor there Monday looking for clearance to participate in contact practices for the first time since he underwent microdiscectomy surgery in September.
Good luck Martell!
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 14, 2012 6:58 AM CST up reply actions
Can we please just call it
NOLAcolypse? Hornacolypse just sounds like the nickname given to the creepy home schooled guy at college who is totally unprepared for both rigorous academics and social interactions.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
*Hornapacalypse
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 13, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Watched the game and here is my thought
It is better to win ugly than to lose ugly – last year they would have lost this game
Just glad to be on the other side for once
It was nice seeing a team lose to us on their free throws for once, instead of the other way around.
You guys really hammer on Ridnour.........
the dude plays his azz off. Plenty nights last year and early this season with Beasley in the lineup and ball movement stops as soon as it touches his hands. Ridnour had look for his own shots cause NOBODY was looking for Ridnour. The spanglish sensation must have an affliction in one eye cause he rarely will rotate the ball towards Luke. I thought Rubio was pretty unselfish at first but now I’m convinced that all he’s interested in is building his own stat line. You mutts are swooned by these no look passes made in mostly very ordinary assist/scoring situations. I do like ourguys running the baseline for alley oops. Rubio is very good. Head to head with Ridnour Luke has the edge with his shooting %‘s and fewer TO’s. Adelman has made a huge difference as had the Beasley and Mighty Me absences. I for one will not throw Rid under the bus as have
a number of you mutts. You all got a long way to go before you rise to the level of playoff quality fans. Worst near do well fans I’ve ever witnessed!
indeed
DofD seems to be ignoring the impact Ricky has on the players who are actually out on the floor with him. Somehow his lineup always scores more net points…which is kind of the point of the whole game. Last time I checked they didn’t assign wins to who’s point shot the best and had fewer TOs.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 14, 2012 7:00 AM CST up reply actions
Wow.. A real NBA player!
What’s up Luke? You’ve been making it rain this year from 16-23! Keep it up man, there’s definitely room on the court for both you and Ricky. Do me a favor and give Pek a hug, and tell him BeasleBong sent you. He’ll be confused as hell.
Agreed on the Near Do Well
We are getting nearer to Well with Rubio and a new coach, but we are not at the lofty heights of being well. You shouldn’t be so hard on Rubio, he plays around with the ball the same way you play fast and loose with the so called “rules” of the English language. Love the mutts comment, very old school, to use the vernacular of your era I would respond with “don’t post for another fortnight you gladfly!”. ZING!
Chazz Reinhold: Mom?? MOM!! What is she doing back there? I never know what she's doing.
by Son of Gerald Green on Jan 14, 2012 5:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
would that be an Oregon Duck...didn't Luke play for Oregon in College?
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 14, 2012 7:01 AM CST up reply actions
thank you
excellent post I saw the same thing.Luke didn’t recieve the ball while in a shooting stance. He had to create everything.Just watch Beasley when he gets back he is openly defiant towards ridnour.Also Rubio and Love were getting into the two man game a little too much,passing up teammates with better open shot possibilities
Sometimes, you've just got to win ugly.
I have a funny feeling tonight is going to be a loss though. An ugly loss at that.
Live And Stupid From England
I think he maybe missed practice one of the off-days for something
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 14, 2012 7:05 AM CST up reply actions
I know what it means when I have a "personal" injury.
And it would certainly keep me out of practice.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 14, 2012 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
I know when I have a personal injury...
I call 1-800-axe Gary. So I can get my settlment.
"But this one goes to eleven..."
by kingsxman on Jan 14, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
People keep telling me about that commercial.
It makes me even happier that I don’t watch TV.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 14, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Best part of those commercials
is when the lady says she’s afraid her car is going to explode. Unless it’s a Pinto, she’s seen too many action movies.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Hey, how about a shout out to the NBA's 10th ranked defense!?
Your Minnesota Timberwolves!
Darko deserves a hug.
He was horrible at O, however he helped a bit with ball movement.
But the clear difference comes in the defensive end. He played mostly two quarters that have NOLA scoring 21 and 13. He sat the 4th and they got 29.
The game is a lot more fluid when he sits down but at the expense of a rival in rythm every single time.
Basically, he is playing against guys who should obliterate him, salaries considered, but centers are usually meh! against him- as of today Bogut, Marc, Kaman, Perk, Haywood, McGee,…- Kaman was their best player ex aequo with Meka, over the paper. He didn´t do much of anything and Darko denied him, even in the midrange. Darko also closed out on shooters for a number of times.
by pagliatti on Jan 14, 2012 8:49 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
Wow, Darko praise, wait till they get ahold of this.
You aren’t allowed to acknowledge the fact that Darko plays solid, solid defense here. Did he guard Kaman last night? As he went 0-10, I’d bet Darko was a big reason why.
Yes, he’s a mess on offense. Like Emo Wes, his confidence is shot. But you’ll quickly be flamed for this comment…just wait till SNP and his followers find it.
by SirLusciousLeftFoot on Jan 14, 2012 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kaman and Landry
Combined for 34 points the game before. I think they combined for about 5 last night.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 14, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
I really don't think it works like that...
people make fun of Darko a lot, but “Darko plays solid D” is not a controversial perspective on CH.
In fact… it really seems like pagliatti spouted the party line in that post. Darko is horrible on D and pretty darn good on D.
by vjl110 on Jan 14, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And even at that, I'm not sure this is the game to single out Darko for praise.
In their long shifts on the court at the beginning of the game (8:19 for Kaman and 10:01 for Darko), they did this:
Kaman: 0 pts, 0-3 shooting, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block
Darko: 0 pts, 0-3 shooting, 3 rebounds, 1 turnover, 1 block.
For the whole game, neither did a thing on offense, but Kaman got 9 rebounds in 18 minutes to Darko’s 4 rebounds in 21 minutes. Hollinger’s game score gives Darko a -1.1 and Kaman a -0.8. In short, they were both terrible.
Darko barely shared the court with Landry, so not much credit goes to him there.
For the season (not including last game), 82games shows that the team gives up 107.3 points per 100 possessions with Darko on the court and 99.6 with him off the court.
I guess Darko’s not the worst of our problems this year, and he comes in handy guarding really big centers, but I have a hard time getting to excited about what he’s been doing.
by Madison Dan on Jan 14, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
sure, good assessment
I also get the sense that many folks here (not trying to say that’s you) really know stats but not the game itself. There are a myriad of reasons why defense might be worse with Darko on the court. Who else is on the court WITH Darko during his minutes? How do others on the team change their tactics when they have Darko behind them? Etc., etc.
Also, just using the ol’ eye ball test from someone who claims to know the game very well (As I’m sure many do) Darko is a solid man defender down low. he helps and contests when Love, Rubio, and Ridnour are beat off the dribble. When instilling a culture of defense on the team, Darko won’t get ripped by the coaches much. Obviously I’m only talking about one side of the court, as he’s largely useless right now on offense and plays with no energy.
by SirLusciousLeftFoot on Jan 14, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
I agree that defensive stats are a lot less reliable than offensive stats,
but that said, some things are down for him relative to last year. His block % is about half of what it was last year, and his steal % is down. But the whole team is playing better defense this year, and he’s probably a part of that.
In any case, if Darko can be a low-usage defensive big, he’ll deserve some minutes. I’d be curious to see what Pekovic would do with Darko’s minutes. I don’t think it’d be better overall, but it would be different, and probably a lot worse on defense.
by Madison Dan on Jan 14, 2012 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
Ehhh, worth a shot
This team would be voted “softest team in the league” I’m sure of it. It’s a team of nice guys, few of which play particularly physical. Pek is a necessity on this team, if he’s any good. I can’t think of good teams that don’t have one or two a$$holes on the team. The Wolves need Pek to be one of those types of players. Dwight Howard should hate playing the Wolves because he ends up with bruises from Pek and Darko and at least one flagrant against him. Instead our players help everyone to their feet, smile, cry, and avoid uncomfortable contact.
by SirLusciousLeftFoot on Jan 14, 2012 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
I wonder about the Pek thing
whether he’s just that bad overall, or if the few things he can do reasonably well just don’t fit with what Adelman wants. It’s not like I think Pek would be a savior for us, and I trust that Adelman hasn’t liked what he’s seen, but I’d kind of like to see what’s so bad. We need a couple of blowout wins to get him on the court.
by Madison Dan on Jan 14, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
I like Darko in general
and think that he is probably worth his contract. The problem with him for me is that, like many others on this team, he is a situational back up being asked to do more than he can. At least we are not trying to run the offense through him anymore.
Hard to Watch Darko Because...
He looks completely lost on offense right now . . . almost as bad as he looked at the start of last year. Hopefully he’ll get on one of his hot streaks that lead folks to ask “Has Darko figured it out?” before he settles into “comfortably below average.”
I do think that a game like last night shows Darko’s value on the defensive end. Kaman could not get anything going against Darko and Adelman switched Darko onto Okafor for a few possessions as well, which seemed to cool Okafor down. I also thought that he had a couple of steals that weren’t properly credited.
+1
I am definitely for advanced stats in baseball, but basketball is much more of a team game so the advanced stats are much less legit in my eyes. +/- is flawed, Defensive/offensive ratings are flawed. PER is completely arbitrary and thus, imo, flawed.
Jonny "back o' chips" Flynn is the GOAT
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 14, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
You Sir, are banished to the hinterlands for daring to give another a warning.
That is entirely decent of you and will not be tolerated!
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 14, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
How much time have you spent on this site? Is this just garden-variety persecution complex?
If we were to ask every regular poster about Darko, we’d very quickly come to an actual consensus on him, which would go something like:
His path to being a functional NBA center is to concentrate on being a “lunch pail” big.
That reflects his defense.
On offense, almost every regular poster would agree that Darko should be positioned in the high post where he passes well, so that he can rotate the ball, as opposed to down low where he puts up baby hooks that fall short. His shot attempts should be the sorts of FGAs that “lunch pail” centers take, on put-backs and so on.
Does anyone disagree with this?
"Opinion ...a confession."
by feral on Jan 14, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
I dunno what does SnP say I'm supposed to do?
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
As painful as it is to watch the Darko show,
I thought last night was one of those games when the opposition controlled the paint on both ends, when Darko was out. I was hoping AR would show continued improvement, but when the lane got crowded you could see him getting pushed to the outside like flotsam at the edge of the pool.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 14, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
Adelman used some strange rotations last night.
All the starters were positive in +/- yet he did not play Wus and Darko much in the 4th when it looked like KLove was playing on fumes. Wes I thought played one of his better games grabbing 8 Rebs and posting a +5 in 34 minutes.
Waiting for Relevancy...
I like how a better game for Wes is him
shooting 1 for 8 for 3s, or whatever it was. His poor defense led directly to many points in the 4th quarter. I recall one plan in particular where he didn’t rotate enough to cut off a pass through the lane that led to an easy basket and foul.
Beats me,
Why anyone would even try to guard Wes at the 3pt line, the more open he is, the more likely he is to brick it.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 14, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
Adelman seems pretty sharp so far
Could it be that playing more minutes and taking on more responsibility just makes young players stronger?
Having baled hay in my youth, I put in some pretty long, hard days and I wasn’t in any kind of shape compared to an NBA player. Love is stronger, lighter and more motivated than in previous seasons. Given half a chance, Adelman will turn him into the best power forward in the league. That or Kevin will break and we’ll have to start Derrick Williams in his place.
It’s a hard life when you get paid millions of dollars to put out.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
I wish I was paid millions of dollars to "put out"
Everyone has their price after all.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 14, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I hear if you charge enough you just might have enough to buy your innocence back!
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 15, 2012 8:34 AM CST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure this guy would help us out at the 2
http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Cameron_Jones/Summary/9731
DLeague it up
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I'm excited and frustrated as the next person..
the only player on the team that hasn’t yet found his purpose (The Jerk) is Beasley! When that occurs this team may be off to the races!!
We should really hop on this Nic Batum train
Tolliver and Ridnour for Batum and Elliot Williams
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
then:
Randolph, Beasley and Johnson for Marcus Thornton and Jason Thompson (if Sac is having contract hangover with Thornton
and then trade DWilliams and Pekavic to N.O. for Okafor and our pick back
Okafor/Love/Batum/Thornton/Rubio=win, draft Brad Beal
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 14, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
this part is less serious than the POR trade idea
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 14, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
RealGM says the trade works, who do you think says no?
http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5984754
could POR do better than two excellent role players like Ridnour and Tolly?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 14, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Why
do we want to give up two of our good players when we have all this dead weight crap with “potential” that we could try to unload in a trade?
Couldnt we come up with some other package where we give up people like Wes, Ellington, Beasley, etc. and hang onto Tolliver?
Yeah...
it seems weird to draw from our extremely limited stock of decent players. Don’t get me wrong… we probably get the better of that deal, but it just doesn’t make a lot of sense. Wes, Beasley, and Pek probably have value to some teams and roughly none to us. Any trade proposals should be focusing on them.
If we get the better of the deal
Isn’t that a deal we should make?
I suggested those two because they have the value.
If batum is indeed an excellent starting small forward isn’t trading two bench players for him a logical move?
Elliot Williams is absolutely a guy to target one way or the other for us though
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 14, 2012 1:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
(They probably don't have that value.)
Batum, at least when Pritchard was still around, was a prized piece in Portland. They sure wouldn’t have dealt him for two decent bench players two years ago.
"Opinion ...a confession."
...
If we get the better of the deal
Isn’t that a deal we should make?
Yes. But it is also the reason that I think it is really unlikely to happen.
And that's a fair point
But you seemed to be hesitant to trade tolly and ridnour. And I was just like, “I realize they are quality players but they are also two of our mist tradable players (especially ridnour).”
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 14, 2012 1:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not hesitant to trade them per se...
they just don’t make sense as trade items, because it is unlikely that any other team values them more than we do.
Wes, Beasley, and Pek have very little value
Beasley is the most value of the three and the T’wolves picked him up for a 2nd rounder.
Beasley is the most value of the three and the T’wolves picked him up for a 2nd rounder + Cap Space.
There, fixed it for ya.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
True
I forgot about the cap space.
I still maintain that none of the players are very valuable around the league.
You guys are definitely reasonable
Except for a few morons that most of you label as such.
I lurk this site all the time. Kevin Love is a badass. There hasn’t been a more storied career in the history of Oregon High School basketball.
Adelman was a great add, especially considering who he was replacing. Adelman has a lot of ties here in Oregon, too. He coached my uncle at Chemeketa Community College back in the late ’70’s.
The Timberwolves are on the verge of perennial success (success as in making it to the playoffs). Right now, the main thing holding them back is their roster imbalance.
Waaaaay too many stretch 4’s on this squad. Beasley, Derrick Williams, Tolliver, Randolph, and even Love is kind of a hybrid stretch 4.
I hate to say it, but from an outsider’s perspective, the guy who has the most value on your roster, but is the least valuable to the Wolves, is Derrick Williams. The Wolves did the right thing by taking the best player available, but I think they did it a year too late. He’s the one that needs to be traded.
If the Wolves were willing to part with Derrick Williams, it would open up a lot more trade opportunities for quality players
That is a realization that many of us have come to...
and the “wait on Derrick Williams, he’s gonna be a star!” versus “we like him but need to unload him due to positional redundancy to get a solid effing wing” debate keeps cropping up.
I don’t know if that horse is dead yet, but it’s on life support.
No need to apologize.
I am not sure who will have the energy for the debate (VooDooMagic usually does ;), so I figured I’d point it out :).
Before we actually saw him here, there was a lot of hope he could play the 3.
Derrick Williams himself was pushing that idea…obviously at least in part because of what our roster looked like. Adelman basically said “hell no” to that (at least for this season). He’s a big guy. Even if he can be a 3 offensively, it doesn’t look like he’ll be able to effectively defend the 3. So…yeah… :)
Round peg, square hole
Love is going to be the cornerstone of the franchise for a while, so other players are going to have to fit with him.
Long term, of all the bigs on the roster, I think Darko and Anthony Randolph are the best fit. Darko because he can defend starting Cs and Randolph because he can defend backup PFs and Cs.
Beasley and Williams are not long term fits here.
Asbosultely true...
but Wes and Beas have a non-zero chance of tricking a bad GM. I would be happy with a rotation player for any or all of them. (hell I would be happy for a roster spot in exchange for any of them)
Uh, maybe because Portland would want something in trades?
I already find Ridnour and Tolliver to be rather an indifferent offer for Batum. Portland will get better potential adds, if he’s on the market.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Yeah,,
that is why Ridnour and Tolliver don’t make a lot of sense as trade items for us. Their value to other teams probably peaks at about the level of their value to us. If it looks like a good trade for us involving one of those guys, the other team probably isn’t interested.
Exactly.
So let’s put it together. We’re looking for a trade that exchanges out our bad wing players for someone else’s good ones. Toss in Pekovic. (I’m not eager to deal him. He’s at low value, relative to his likely strengths as a player. Post scoring is always scarce.)
We’d better identify a team whose front office thinks of player value…. differently.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Ben Gordon and TPrince
for Miller, Beasley and Wes?
who says no?
who get better now? for the future?
by WinTheLottery on Jan 14, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
That is a lot of bad players moving around.
I’d say there is no immediate impact for either team and the Wolves lose longterm for purely financial reasons.
My thought is
Portland is paying big money to: wallace, Matthews, Felton, Aldridge,campy and miller
My guess is quality role guys for cheap would be of value to them in a deal.
Remember if batum is indeed on the market, to move him salaries are going to have to match up. Is there s more Productive 6 million dollars than ridnour and tolly? Maybe but also that is an excellent tandem of back ups
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 14, 2012 1:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wallace, Felton, and Camby are coming off the books next season
And Miller plays for Denver this season.
People around the league don’t value the T’wolves’ backups as highly as they do backups from a successful team. Everyone knows that this team has Rubio, Love, and a bunch of hot garbage around them.
If the T’wolves’ brass is smart, they’ll wait for Batum to hit restricted free agency and sign him to a toxic offer sheet that the Blazers will have difficulty matching while they’re in negotiations with Gerald Wallace.
Something like this is probably the most realistic plan.
The Wolves have a fair amount of salary coming off the books, so they ought to be able to sign a wing. Batum would be a nice target.
Haha, Tolliver and Ridnour for Batum and Elliot Williams
Good one.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 14, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Pffffffft
That’s what I was thinking.
Anthony Tolliver is not a good player on most teams. On most teams he’s a good 10th player off of the bench. Tolliver was already on the Blazers for a while when he got called-up from the D-league a couple seasons ago, but he only lasted for one or two ten-day contracts. Why would they trade something for a guy they already cut?
I understand not wanting to trade guys that are giving you decent production, but it takes money to make money. The most anyone will give for Ellington, Beasley, Pekovic, or Tolliver is a 2nd round pick.
It would take Ridnour + the wolves’ first rounder in 2014 to even get in a conversation about Batum.
I would be fine
With Ridnour + Wolves 2014 1st + Memphis 2013 1st for Batum. Don’t know if that gets it done though.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
If I was a Blazer GM, rather than just a fan, I would do that deal
I’m surprised that you’re not more gun-shy about trading your first rounders, seeing how the Jaric trade worked out.
We're used to not having first round picks.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 14, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
There's that . . .
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 14, 2012 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
I have not idea if that gets it done
but I’m with ya in principle.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Wes
I actually thought Wes played his best game of the year. He seemed more active on defense. Got 8 boards. Seemed to be trying to help in the paint. It was a somewhat encouraging game.
by Mac of the MIAC on Jan 14, 2012 12:07 PM CST reply actions
agreed
Building a Flock. To God be the Glory. @mikecboosalisii - follow me homies!
by Michael C. Boosalis II on Jan 14, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
His only hope...
is that he regains his collegiate rebounding and blocking when he plays the 3. I’m not going to hold my breath, but that is the only semi-realistic pathway for Wes to become a useful player.
He played his best game of the year?
Is he also very tall for a short person?
"Opinion ...a confession."
This might sound unrealistic
But I’d be curious to check with the status of Javale Mcgee’s status in Wash. He’s a free agent and Washington has a head start on the 1st pick in the draft to roll with Andre Drummond or Anthony Davis….
Not sure what they would be looking to get or could get from other teams….but I wouldn’t be all that surprised if he were available
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 14, 2012 2:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
?
Blatche could definitely be had . . . McGee not so sure.
More importantly, you want to add another space cadet to a team that already has Beas, Darko, and AR? Can we please sign JR Smith and his sister too? http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-01-12/jr-smiths-sister-fight-brawl-punch-denver-nuggets-china
I wouldn't mind the Wolves taking a chance on JR
But I’m afraid the major market contenders will throw huge short term money at those late lockout returnees.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 14, 2012 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
Probably an unrealistic target. Even though he’s a bonehead, McGee’s potential should be undeniable to anyone, making him nearly untouchable. I doubt Washington lets him go before getting rid of all the toxic around him. I’m not sure center is even a huge concern for the Wolves right now. Getting a serviceable wing should be a much higher priority.
I know they have injuries but I wonder why Keith Bogans isn’t a target. He’s a vet, tough defender, that could knock down open 3s. More importantly, after starting with Chicago all of last year, he definitely understands team defense.
We've pounded on Bogans for a while now, it makes lots of sense.
He’s Trenton Hassell for this generation, right down to the released-by-the-Bulls part.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Beasley as backup pt.
Too bad he was left home he could have given the other guys a blow tonight.. He likes to dribble up the floor.
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