A quick look at a few things from the last 2 games
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 15, 2012 9:25 AM CST
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PrintThere were some fairly interesting things that came out of the last two games.
More below the fold.
Let's start with the Atlanta tilt.
| Advanced Box Score Statistics | |||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Starters | MP | TS% | eFG% | ORB% | DRB% | TRB% | AST% | STL% | BLK% | TOV% | USG% | ORtg | DRtg |
| Kevin Love | 40:03 | .524 | .462 | 10.2 | 24.5 | 17.1 | 10.1 | 2.6 | 2.1 | 6.5 | 35.2 | 108 | 96 |
| Luke Ridnour | 38:07 | .415 | .375 | 0.0 | 8.6 | 4.2 | 7.4 | 1.4 | 2.2 | 19.2 | 12.6 | 75 | 105 |
| Ricky Rubio | 35:15 | .567 | .533 | 0.0 | 12.4 | 6.0 | 57.4 | 7.4 | 0.0 | 20.1 | 26.0 | 108 | 91 |
| Wesley Johnson | 23:08 | .250 | .250 | 4.4 | 9.4 | 6.8 | 0.0 | 2.2 | 0.0 | 20.0 | 19.9 | 47 | 104 |
| Darko Milicic | 14:30 | .000 | .000 | 0.0 | 15.0 | 7.3 | 8.7 | 3.6 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 6.3 | 27 | 98 |
| Reserves | MP | TS% | eFG% | ORB% | DRB% | TRB% | AST% | STL% | BLK% | TOV% | USG% | ORtg | DRtg |
| Wayne Ellington | 30:39 | .722 | .722 | 3.3 | 10.7 | 6.9 | 11.0 | 1.7 | 2.7 | 0.0 | 13.5 | 148 | 103 |
| Anthony Tolliver | 18:31 | .625 | .625 | 0.0 | 23.6 | 11.4 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 9.9 | 123 | 103 |
| Nikola Pekovic | 17:00 | .788 | .750 | 18.0 | 0.0 | 9.3 | 9.6 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 40.3 | 20.1 | 102 | 113 |
| Anthony Randolph | 14:51 | .425 | .400 | 0.0 | 22.0 | 10.7 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 5.7 | 14.5 | 21.3 | 73 | 100 |
| Derrick Williams | 7:56 | .250 | .250 | 12.9 | 0.0 | 6.6 | 18.9 | 6.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 23.2 | 77 | 99 |
| Team Totals | 240 | .504 | .471 | 21.3 | 68.2 | 44.0 | 55.3 | 13.0 | 6.3 | 13.4 | 100.0 | 98.3 | 100.4 |
The league average TS% is 52.4%. In the last 2 games the Wolves have had a grand total of 2 players with a TS% above the league average: Kevin Love and Ricky Rubio. Luke Ridnour's game against Chicago was the last time a non-Love/Rubio starter made it over the league average with more than 10mpg. Luke was also the only starter above league average against Toronto. You have to go all the way back to the Wizards game to find a non Love/Ridnour/Rubio starter who has had a TS% over the league average (Wayne Ellington).
Poor shooting is something of an early season trend in the NBA. Last year's average TS% was 54.2%. That's just over a 3% difference and it is noticeable from beyond the arc (34.3 vs. 35.9) and at the line (74.4 76.3).
Throw in 2 straight games with no local TV coverage and not only is the NBA delivering a rather shitty product, but they are still essentially locking you out from a decent chunk of the schedule.
OK, venting over. On the somewhat bright side of things, the Wolves as a team were essentially at the league average at the start of the Hawks game. Luke, Anthony Randolph, Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, and Anthony Tolliver are the only players on the team above the league average TS%. While the team has moved Rubio into the starting lineup, it is still spotting opponents large chunks of below average shooting production at two positions, with Darko being roughly 18% below league average and Wes being about 31% below average.
Wes Johnson currently sports a .382 TS%. Jonny Flynn is currently at .383. Johnson carries the worst TS% for a starting shooting guard in the entire league, and he is 6th worst overall, behind Avery Bradley, Lance Stephenson, Matt Carroll, Marques Daniels, and Larry Hughes.
Moving on...
| Advanced Box Score Statistics | |||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Starters | MP | TS% | eFG% | ORB% | DRB% | TRB% | AST% | STL% | BLK% | TOV% | USG% | ORtg | DRtg |
| Ricky Rubio | 43:42 | .622 | .429 | 2.5 | 10.0 | 6.7 | 47.7 | 3.8 | 0.0 | 17.2 | 12.4 | 131 | 89 |
| Kevin Love | 42:22 | .682 | .500 | 10.3 | 22.7 | 17.2 | 7.6 | 0.0 | 4.6 | 19.4 | 34.1 | 120 | 85 |
| Luke Ridnour | 39:46 | .440 | .385 | 0.0 | 11.0 | 6.1 | 6.3 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 6.3 | 18.5 | 93 | 95 |
| Wesley Johnson | 34:07 | .346 | .346 | 3.2 | 17.9 | 11.4 | 0.0 | 1.6 | 1.9 | 7.1 | 19.2 | 74 | 87 |
| Darko Milicic | 21:20 | .260 | .250 | 0.0 | 16.4 | 9.1 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 3.0 | 25.8 | 17.0 | 41 | 91 |
| Reserves | MP | TS% | eFG% | ORB% | DRB% | TRB% | AST% | STL% | BLK% | TOV% | USG% | ORtg | DRtg |
| Wayne Ellington | 16:43 | .600 | .600 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 14.0 | 126 | 102 |
| Anthony Tolliver | 15:58 | .444 | .200 | 13.7 | 10.9 | 12.1 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 12.9 | 22.7 | 98 | 94 |
| Derrick Williams | 15:31 | .410 | .250 | 21.1 | 5.6 | 12.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 | 17.0 | 17.7 | 95 | 99 |
| Anthony Randolph | 10:31 | .000 | .000 | 10.4 | 8.3 | 9.2 | 0.0 | 5.2 | 0.0 | 50.0 | 17.8 | 15 | 87 |
| Team Totals | 240 | .502 | .386 | 27.3 | 65.5 | 48.5 | 45.8 | 5.7 | 11.1 | 15.6 | 100.0 | 99.2 | 91.2 |
The number that really jumped out here is the ortg/drtg differences between Rubio, Love, and, say, Ridnour. How on earth can they have such a huge differential with only a few more minutes? To the gameflow! There's a +3 run at the start of the 2nd, and a total of +2 at the end of the 1st. That's about 6 minutes with +5. In a single game or a small sample, that doesn't seem like much, but these last 2 games have been fairly striking examples of just how much of a load Kevin Love and Ricky Rubio are carrying, both in terms of minutes and production. With Luke playing well, the team is essentially relying on monster production from 1 guy, awesome production from another, and just above average from one more.
That's it. (AR could earn a spot here if he was a bit more consistent.)
Rebounds, assists, steals, TS%, free throws...while each game will come with a slightly different flavor, the long term trend of this team continues to point in the same direction: They've surrounded Love with 1 other guy. They have a few other players who can play close to average (with Luke becoming fairly consistent at the 2 spot/backup point).
This team still has a positive ortg/drtg ratio. They have a...wait for it...top 10 defensive rating (9th). They have a positive SRS! I don't have month-to-month data going back to 04/05, but that was the last time a Wolves team had a positive SRS. They're close, they're competitive, they're doing it with 3 guys (1 monster, 1 awesome, 1 at or slightly above average) and a good coach. The roster is still imbalanced. They need help to push it over the top.
Here's to some irrational hope for Martell and Malcolm Lee, because I don't think the help is coming from anywhere else.
Until later.
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Another thing that strikes me
is the rebounding. Last season the Wolves were first in the league in TRB and this season they’re 12th. Last season they held their opponents to 23rd in TRB and this season it’s 19th. As far as working the glass goes, this season it’s Love and nobody else. He’s playing a ton of minutes and he’s getting no help in significant parts of the game.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
Is this not a byproduct of
slightly slowing down on offense? If the pace goes down, rebounds go down too
by Wim (Belgium) on Jan 15, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
I think we need a pace adjusted rebounds stat
or I suppose we could just look at the rebounding rates instead of the totals.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 15, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
No
TRB is total rebounds per game. Makes a huge difference if you play at the highest pace in the league versus the lowest. Rebounding rates show what percentage of the total rebounds you grab. A lot more telling than total rebounds.
, said Mplax.
This year, the Wolves are 7th in pace-adjusted total rebounds per game.
Last year, they were…..7th.
by Madison Dan on Jan 15, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you
for looking that up.
Looking for tickets to Wolves' 2011 NBA Preseason Champion ring ceremony, banner unfurling. Please contact
by Black Jack Davy on Jan 15, 2012 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
yay, thx idd
I should have done it in the first place :)
by Wim (Belgium) on Jan 16, 2012 2:22 AM CST up reply actions
and he has to carry a heavy scoring load
Love can’t have enough in the tank to carry the scoring, rebounds an be a plus defender. He’s gonna run outta gas.
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 10:03 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Is he already out of gas?
His last five 4th quarters:
0-5 FG, 2-2 FT, 1 PF, 3 RB, 1 TO, 1 Block, 1 Steal
2-4 FG, 7-8 FT, 2 PF, 3 RB, 3 TO, 1 Block
1-6 FG, 1-1 FT, 1 PF, 4 RB, 1 Assist
0-2 FG, 0-0 FT, 2 PF, 1 RB
Leaving alone the Banana Sandwich conversation, these aren’t lines like the one against Dallas.
"Opinion ...a confession."
yes he is out of gas
I wonder if it is his diet? He did slim down a lot, I wonder if he gets enough calories before and after games
for me to poop on
He's playing the 2nd mst minutes in the NBA
Way more than he ever has- and in a super compressed schedule.
He should be out of gas.
don't think so
he’s getting paid millions of dollars not to be out of gas
One problem is
The amount of energy stored in his muscles do not understand the contract he signed.
I do believe your point may still stand though.
by fanslaststand on Jan 15, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
HIS POINT STILL STANDS!!!
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 15, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
not really
He’s getting payed to hoop. It’s the coaches job to limit minutes. No one in the league can play this many minutes on this schedule and not get gassed. Especially not a big guy.
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 5:41 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
he is getting payed to hoop
but if he is out of gas he’s not able to perform at the high level he should/is capable of perform at. I do agree it’s the coaches job to limit minutes but to me it’s reasonable to expect near 40 minutes from a top player without such a dramatic drop off for the last 12.
well good thing your not a coach
Go look at the average minutes for big men this year. You just can’t play them 40 minutes a game in a schedule like this. It’s not just Love. As I said go look at the minutes of other big guys (and all players for that matter…)
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 6:56 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
It's not just me
Our coach, who most people agree is a top coach is playing him 40 a night. I’ve looked at others and Love does have more minutes but not by that much, he averages 1 more then Griffin/Marc Gasol, 2 more then Dwight/LMA/Pau/Lee/Lebron(he’s bigish), 3 more then Bosh. The main difference is we haven’t had any blowouts either way, our games have only been a few possessions away (except for Washington, don’t know why Love played 40). If you look at games that were close all those guys played around 40 minutes and in many cases they played more then 40.
Totally unreasonable.
In the last week, he played 117 minutes over a 3 night span, and 82 over a 2 night span.
Giving more money to someone doesn’t magically give them the ability to defy reality.
If the last few days are any indication,
Gophers12 isn’t terribly concerned with reality.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 15, 2012 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
It had nothing to do with the amount of money
The point was he is getting paid which means this is his job and he should take the steps necessary to ensure he can do his job at and above average level because he is an above average player.
It’s also not about the number of minutes it’s about the quality of play, last game Love played 40 minutes but didn’t really show up in the 4th quarter (even for a couple minute stretch) so basically he gave us 28 minutes.
well then you made the case for us
He is playing too many minutes
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 10:26 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I don't think I said he wasn't
I’m pretty sure we both agree that the drop off in play is coming from him playing too many minutes. I’m saying it should be his responsibility to get in better shape to play 40 minutes.
Look at the list above and you’ll see any given game those guys go over 40 minutes and I really doubt they consistently fall off in the 4th like Love has been.
Love plays the most minutes per game in the league right now
Probably a sign, no?
I always try to teach my students about a “can-do” attitude. Something I feel has been a little lost on these guys since they cancelled the two years force military service.
That said, when you ask that attitude from someone you have to make sure what you’re asking is somewhere in the realm of the possible.
What you’re saying is completely impossible from a physiological standpoint.
Every effort you make will degrade your fitness level. If you take a rest after the effort your body will recover to a level ABOVE your previous level (that’s why training is good). But, if you don’t rest enough the efforts will pile up and lower your overall fitness .. thus the bad performances by Love.
by Wim (Belgium) on Jan 16, 2012 2:28 AM CST up reply actions
Love needs to provide more effort
I mean, go for a rebound every once in a while. %
I’m a marathoner and running coach. I’ve dealt for years with injuries caused by going too hard. This is usually going too hard for too long. Running 7-12 miles too fast or playing basketball too long at his exertion level, it doesn’t matter. Every athlete has a base developed over years that determines the thresshold of exertion that is safe. Right now I’m cringing every game as I watch Love exceed it. As with running, it will be something simple, like an easy rebound or a jump shot, that Love is doing when his foot (probably) just gives way or crumbles.
He needs to play 36-38 minutes per game, most likely, and not completely overdo it. I’ve rarely seen this type of thing not end up in injury. Plus, those extra minutes he’s playing simply aren’t helping all that much.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Correct me if I'm wrong
but didn’t Loves minutes spike when Beas went out? I think he is playing a lot of minutes until Beas comes back.
Waiting for Relevancy...
Actually, you are wrong.
Love’s minutes by game:
41, 40, 33, 38, 44, 38, 41, 41, 36, 40, 42, 40
He’s averaging 39.8 w/o Beasley and 39.3 with Beasley.
See
That’s +5 min per game w/o Beas, definetly a spike!
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 16, 2012 2:29 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
+.5
Decimal point fail */
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 16, 2012 2:30 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Agreed
His play with extra minutes has given us very little.
Here’s the question, how long would you need to recover from giving 40 minutes of an activity that required a high level of exertion. For example how long would it take you to recover from a 7 mile run? I know a few runners and from what I’ve seen they can do this on back to back to back days without a noticeable drop off.
Alright man
First, let me say you should just drop your case.
Then let me add, are your ‘case studies’ also 6’10 260 pounds? Do they get hit with elbows and smacked and slapped by other giants during that time? Do they run wind sprints in periodic intervals for that time?
But I’m done. I really have no idea what you are seeing, or what league/sport you think you are watching.
by TO12 on Jan 16, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Ideally, you rest 48 hours after a such a heavy workout
by Wim (Belgium) on Jan 16, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
According to legend
the runner of the first marathon died from the exertion. I’m not say’n, I’m just say’n.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 17, 2012 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Hahaha.. Yep.
Money somehow defeats the fallibility of humanity..
30/14 is not enough!
I wrote about the TV thing yesterday in a fanpost
Would be interested in your thoughts on that if you have time. Zgoda finally got something from the team in todays paper, blaming the lockout and Wild and Gopher hockey, as I thought they would. Still think it’s bogus.
saw that
bumped it to the front page and tweeted about it. it is ridiculous, especially after a lockout.
Oh, didn't notice that, thanks.
I’m calling it, Rubio 20 assist game is off TV, and they deserve that.
it's insane
By being out of town and having league pass, I get to watch more games than the locals. Messed up system.
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 6:57 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Offf air but fun listening to Walt "Clyde" Frazier ooh and ah at Loves performance.
Waiting for Relevancy...
you don't really need the huge ion cannon
to shoot the womp rats back home.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Barea?
Just as a knee jerk reaction, I think JJ will be able to provide some positive contributions once he’s healthy (perhaps on the Ridnour order—although different contributions—and sometimes more?).
There are reasonable concerns as far as how he’ll play with Rubio (because he seems to need the ball in his hands, etc.), as well as, certainly , concerns about him defensively, but at least he is a net positive, right?
(I don’t know how to insert a table, so here’s a link to his B-R…obviously only 94 minutes this year).
It seems perhaps Barea’s contract money might have been better spent on a defensive wing type who’s also a solid shooter, but I understand some of the non-quantifiable reasons for his signing (winning attitude, speaks Spanish for RR, etc.). In any case, we shouldn’t discount him, IMO. If we are harping on needing competent players…he is one.
I hope so
If that were the case, they would have 3 points and a pf as their only consistent performers, with 2 or 3 more pfs in the inconsistently ok role. What a goofy team. I dont really know how to wrap it into a post but you could make a case that the 4 best players on this team are white. Is that a big deal in terms of being an outlier? Does it merit a mention? When was the last time that happened? Everything about this team is just weird. I think they could end up 10-15 games below .500 with a positive ortg drtg diff. That would be insane.
I think that's where they are headed
(3 points and a PF, with some other PFs).
I’ll admit that the “4 best players are white” thing is bizarre and probably remarkable, but the FO obviously was not going for that—what with all of the emphasis on “long and athletic”. It is interesting to me because our best players do not necessarily capitalize on the strengths of the Unicorn (at least not in the way that, say Magic Johnson talked about when explaining why RIcky was going to be great in the NBA. That is ridiculous, considering how it seemed so apparent to all of us that Kahn was builing this damn team for Rubio.
I don’t know how much notice our whiteness will generate throughout the league (apart from Love and Rubio); we are still one player away from being able to legitimately run out the Bill Simmons “white out” lineup (or whatever he calls it). Maybe Kahn can get on the horn to John Hammond and bring in Mike Dunleavy…
I have readjusted by hopeful win total to be at least 25, which is a bit better than what you’re talking about there. It is a strange path we are going down. We. Need. A. Wing. Trade. Anyone. But. Love. Or. Rubio.
RE: Kahn
It really is amazing that they had all this time to find players who should play to Rubio’s strengths. If only Curry were long and athletic.
They did try to get them though.
Adolph and Wes seemed to be brought in with that in mind. Not that they really work though, but to me it looked like they did kind of have a Rubio team in mind.
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 5:47 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I've said this a lot
But the Curry/Rubio thing in some respect of reality might not actually work “perfectly.” (obviously it would be a hell of a lot better than what we got with Flynn) but it’s still like…why the hell not draft Derozan and Lawson or Holiday? He had like 40 options that all would have made us a much better team right now.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
he pretty much made the worst possible choice in 2 straight drafts
in every situation where he did not have to pick the guy he picked, he’s fubar’d it.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 15, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Indeed
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
worst possible would have been no Rubio
Although he could of certainly made the second worst decision
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 9:57 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Looks like Kahn has done 3 good things:
1) Traded Foye and Miller for the pick
2) Drafted and held onto Rubio
3) Didn’t sign middling players to crippling long-term contracts
So basically Rubio and the lack of doing something stupid. That’s about it.
Balanced against the list of serious mistakes:
1) Rambis
2) Flynn
3) Wes
4) Missing out on all of the later 1st round and 2nd round picks (gotta get something more from one of those)
5) None of the FA signings or trades have netted an above average or even average player. Or…when the biggest additions to the club during your tenure as GM are Ridnour, Beasley, Darko and JJ Barea…you’re not doing nearly enough.
You don't think Barea or Rid are average to above average players?
Jonny "back o' chips" Flynn is the GOAT
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 16, 2012 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
I think JJ and Ridnour are average players
But PF and PG are two positions of strength league wide. Having a decent PG and PF is almost a given. Having a great one is not.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I mean that as a compliment.
Average players at the NBA level is exceptional! Because of how play time is skewed in favor of above average players being average means you are better than a large number of NBA players in my book.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
that's where it gets sticky
Saying a .100 WS/48, for example, isn’t really average in teams of NBA skill level, it is above average.
An ‘average player’ would be roughly a 7th or 8th man, or about the 235th best player in the league.
But when you use a weight-adjusted mean, like saying a .100 WS/48 is average, you’re actually saying that the 170th (or so) best player out of 470 is average. Which to me is misleading, but it just all depends on how you want to look at it. I could see how defining the average player in a different way would be misleading as well.
Interesting tidbit, last season Jason Terry defined average play with his WS/48 of exactly 0.100.
by TO12 on Jan 16, 2012 9:44 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
It is average in the sense that...
it is precisely the “average” of a player that is seeing basketball time. Every minute that a 0.100 player plays is an averagely used minute. If your teams has 8 average (0.100) players who play all 240 minutes in each game, your team will theoretically go .500.
I get your point… most guys play between 0 and 15 minutes so an “average” player is worse than the 0.100 figure, but there is good reason for defining 0.100 as average like they do.
No, I get that
And like I said, defining average a different way would probably be misleading as well.
I guess ‘average production’ makes more sense, as opposed to saying an ‘average player.’
Not that anybody has been commiting sins or that it’s a big deal, I’m just basically thinking outloud…
It's the difference between
avg and replacement level., those goes ranked 240 something, are not avg, but but replacement level players. An avg player is one who could be relied upon to start and not suck, any thing below that is either replacement lvl or worse.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 17, 2012 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
"An ‘average player’ would be roughly a 7th or 8th man, or about the 235th best player in the league."
Wouldn’t that mean that the average team then has 6-7 above-average or better players? I think that’s WAY too high.
Not for a 13 man roster
6 above, 6 below, 1 smack in the middle
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 16, 2012 2:34 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
It depends how you define average, as kind of stated above
If you mean something of a a minute-weighted average of production, then ya, there are only a few players per team above average, because of the skew created from superstars playing the most minutes.
But if you are actually talking about the ‘average NBA player,’ then it is just what Real Thor says. Same idea for the league as a whole.
Sorry, I meant average starter
Or to be more precise how about average player playing 25 mpg or more
Leaving out the whole "whiteness" aspect...
wouldn’t it be nice to have a player who has Dunleavy’s set of skills (good shooter, able to handle the ball) at the wing right now??
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
Is anyone interested
In JR Smith when he comes back from china? I think if you add him and bogans you would be reasonably ok at the wing… and it wouldn’t require any trades.
by rugbyisbetter on Jan 15, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
I think it would require trades to clear the roster space
and prevent us from paying the luxury tax. But I’ve wondered whether they’ll look at him, too. He’s a pretty polarizing player, but he puts up some decent numbers.
I imagine we could somehow clear the space
but I am not sure what it will take to get him. Like, will he just sign a contract through the rest of the year, or will it actually be something substantial? Due to his….potential for combustability…it’ll be interesting to see who wants him, particularly mid-season. Everyone talked about how Karl was such a great coach for him, but maybe bringing him in doesn’t make sense for the Nuggs with how they’re playing (particularly with some of the other characters they have right now).
I have no idea how he’d be on this team.
I'd rather go Wilson Chandler
but I’d take Smith
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
My concern with J.R.
is that he’d come in and try to take over and be poisonous for our chemistry. I know that kind of thing can be overstated, but I think it’s legit with a guy like him. While he may have respect for Love, this is Rubio’s team. Not sure how much J.R.‘s been paying attention while over in China, but we’ve been seeing a lot of players responding like, “WhoTF is this guy?!?!” to Rubio. Wouldn’t want to introduce that. Maybe I am over-anaylizing. Just so psyched for a potential wing that it’s hard not to.
Yeah, I have a hard time judging the crazy factor with him.
I won’t knock the Wolves if they pass on him, but he’s someone who might provide a quick fix.
We'd have to move Beasley (which is fine)
and maybe Darko (again fine)
but I will always take 1 headcase if he produces. Ron Artest when he was on the Rockets was ABSOLUTELY worth it, I think Smith for us would be absolutely worth it as well…
Still would rather have Chandler, I feel like he has a very solid overall game with room for improvement
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
You'd hope
J.R. would quickly realize that Rubio’s going to set him up with easy, easy scores, and make him look Sportcenter good. I kinda think he’s the sort of player that matters to. If he did, they could be a pretty showy tandem, especially on the break. Trailer threes are easy money for Smith.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with J.R.
I just don’t know. Luckily, these decisions are made by those with far more expertise than I have.
How realistic is Chandler?
Do you guys have the cap to get him? He seems like the perfect guy that’s athletic and could do everything well. Might be expensive, though and I don’t know how interested he’d be.
I tend to like crazy guys but I don’t think J.R. Smith would be a problem. He absolutely takes bad shots but I don’t think he’d poison the team in anyway. Rubio would help him a ton. I don’t see how the Wolves could turn down that type of talent.
I'd trade some chemistry for some actual talent
I’m sure Wes Johnson is good for team chemistry, but he’s not good for team basketball.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Been following some posts on the D-League Showcase.
Seems like some good players there that would kill for a shot on an NBA team, including: Elijah Mills as a wing:
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/elijah_millsap/index.html
and maybe JamesOn Curry at the 2:
http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/jameson_curry/index.html
We’d have to make room somehow (goodbye Wes) – perhaps trading for picks/cash?? Seems like something Kahn could handle…
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
I would say Barea
Can probably be penciled in for 20 or so minutes of good play when he comes back.
I also am going to try and not to put too much stock in Webster.
However, I do bet Williams really picks up after the all-star break.
We got some pieces. This is a really fun team to watch, but just competitive enough to be maddening.
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 10:01 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
We need Barea
to run the second unit. When Rubio’s out, Ridnour’s just not enough, especially not with the bench on the floor.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Wes is impossibly bad.
He’s flirting with the Sasha Pavlovic Memorial FG% + 3PFG% + FT% < 1.000 Award, and his PER of 3.7 is actually worse than the 5.4 Sasha gave us that year. By any statistical measure, he shouldn’t even be in the league. How can a #4 pick who was supposed to be the safe pick fail this spectacularly?
My twitter: www.twitter.com/HogeJ
yes he has been, and I say this as a former supporter
of Wes. Ellington is showing signs of being servicable. (his seasonal posn adjusted Win score has raised above zero finally)
Among players logging at least 20 mpg, Wes has:
The worst PER at 3.7 (the next worst is 6.0)
The worst TS% at 0.382 (next worst is 0.392)
The third worst WS/48 (losing out to Jordan Crawford and Damion James) at -0.065
The worst ORtg at 72.
He is truly terrible. Genuinely in the running for the worst player in the league still getting minutes. Yet, if Zgoda’s tweets are to be believed, the Wolves aren’t interested in trading or cutting him. Whoever brought up the Joe Alexander comparison (in which the Bucks gave up in about 1/3 of the minutes we’ve given Wes so far) nailed it.
by Madison Dan on Jan 15, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
your gameflow goes to the hornets game
correct link: http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20120114&game=MINATL
Another thing of interest in the gameflow is how diastruous ay player not named Rubio, Love, or Ellington were in the fourth quarter, Ridnour in particular. It also appears from the gameflow that Love was gassed in the fourth.
I meant to add…especially in comparison to the hawks who had five guys, three bench players, capable of solid production in the fourth quarter.
Love's fourth quarter
was better than Ridnour’s, Pekovic’s, and Tolliver’s. Ellington and Rubio were the only two players more productive to him in the fourth. Relative? Yes, but I like said, Rubio, Love and Ellington wree not disastruous in the fourth; everyone else was.
The Kevin Love ruler. Only measures him against poor players. Nice.
Plus, it doesn’t measure defense at all.
well, if we could play Dwight Howard instead, then I think we should. Unfortunately, we have our roster so we have to play our players so when we consider who should and shouldn’t be playing, we have to pick from guys on our roster who aren’t injured.
If you don’t want to judge players by their merits relative to their peers, that’s cool. I can join you in your alternate universe and sub in the cast from Space Jam so that Love doesn’t do a crappy drive to the hoop.
by monkeywolf on Jan 15, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The only alternate universe is yours. I measured him by what was, not some
artificial standard. Compare him to the 27 year old rookie he played in the quarter. How did he do?
poorly. You still don’t get my point. Who would you play instead of Love in the fourth? Who would you put on Ivan instead? We have no one who matches up well with a guy like that.
What is my artificial standard? I’m measuring Love’s production vis-a-vis the production of his teammates. Look at my comments — I never said he was a stud in the fourth. I said him, Ellington and Rubio were the only players who weren’t completely disastruous. In fact, I said he was gassed, i.e. his production dropped way off in the fourth, but did it drop to Ridnour or Pekovic levels? Nope.
I think he's basically saying compare him to other all stars
Love was also disastrous in the 4th, if that was the only quarter you saw the wolves play you would never know he’s an all star and might actually think Pek was better then him. Rubio and Ellington were the only guys who had solid 4th quarters both offensively and defensively.
As far as who I would have put on Ivan, I would have put Williams in. He’s really shown up in a couple 4th quarters and honestly he wouldn’t have been worse then Love. Plus Love played the entire 3rd quarter and looked a little slow so perhaps a 3-4 min break would have helped him perform better in the last few minutes of the game.
Love's been a monster,
but his complaining to the refs that has been mentioned before is getting worse instead of better. Seems like it happens after every single miss of his. He even mentioned it in his postgame interview and put up an angry Tweet about it.
One does not have jaw reallignment surgery in the offseason
To keep it zipped w/ the officials. My theory anyway.
by fanslaststand on Jan 15, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
A little worrisome.
People don’t talk like that to people with max contracts……….
i thought i noticed that too
not a good thing when things like that have to be pointed out to the “leader” of the team
hopefully it is a phase and not sign of the apocalypse
(after all, things have to get better before they get worse again, don’t they?)
Well, Love is only 17.
So we have to cut him some slack.
Don't forget
Love is a (self-proclaimed) “consummate professional”. For some reason that line sticks in my head as really weird.
When do we pick out Love's wedding china pattern?
I’m all ready for that thread.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Come on!
Of course I remember that scene, but that is barely connected. They aren’t choosing the pattern in that scene! (Note: I am a woman and have been married in the last 6 months).
they are trying to figure out what makes a good wedding gift
I believe the coach mentioned candle sticks as a solid gift.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 15, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
I watched the clip and I remember the scene.
They’re not picking out his china patterns. They’re talking about their issues and concern what to the religious dude and Millie (I think her name is). Totally different. I thought feral was making a freaking Today Show reference.
(It’s a gender thing). (I’m done :).
Concern...
What about the guy with the curse on his bat?
so the fried chicken didn't work eh?
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 15, 2012 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
Also, fighting through adversity etc
You can tell when athletes don’t actually know what they’re talking about when they say these things
Jonny "back o' chips" Flynn is the GOAT
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 15, 2012 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Love just turned 22 right?
He says stuff like that because he thinks it sounds good and that it’s the type of thing he is supposed to say. It’s not like it’s an embarrassing comment, but it will be one that he won’t make when he’s 27. People forget how young this guy is when they kill him for letting Ivan Johnson out muscle him a few times. Ivan Johnson is like 5 years older than he is. Imagine how good Love will be in 4 years? It will be his true prime. I just hope it’s in a Wolves uni. When I was 22 I worked at Sears in college and got hammered every night. Not to pull a DK, but we gotta remember the age here sometimes.
People's bodies don't start to fully come to maturity
till 25 or later in some cases.
This is a solid point about being out muscled by an Ivan Johnson
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I'm not crying for rich athletes
But at 21, 22 (skill aside) I could not picture myself being the best player/leader on a crappy pro basketball team and being under the microscope at all times, dealing with the media, etc. I was just a dumb college douche. That’s why Kahn’s youth movement is stupid, youth doesn’t win because it doesn’t know how.
We've had two very "body centric" GM's
it’s odd how much they notice players bods
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
In a league of super athletes
it is understandable… Now if only they could somehow combine their desires with some advanced stats and perhaps read VJ’s posts.
Back when I was growing up...
way back in the dark ages of the 80s, Love would only be a senior in college right now.
Do I hate all the complaining he does to the refs? Yeah, it doesn’t look good. But, we all have faults, but ours don’t appear on nation…, uhhhh, region…, league-sponsored broad…., illegally posted web feeds! :)
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
Trades
I wonder if trades will happen once Lee and Webster come back. There are some guys who are clearly hanging themselves, but we can’t move anybody until we get less than 33% of our roster unhurt (think how incredible that is – Beasley, Barea, Martell, Lee, and Miller are all out right now. Those may not be great, but that’s minutes eating depth forcing guys like Wes and Wayne to play more minutes than Adelman would like).
After looking at the moves carried out in Adelman’s first year in Houston and Sacto, I feel very confident that trades are coming. He has a history of flipping pieces that don’t work.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jan 15, 2012 11:00 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Dork Elvis
Is a bit suspect in my book. Too smart for his own good? It’s going to take a few good moves to erase the fact that he traded for Jonny Flyyn AND Thabeet.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jan 15, 2012 11:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
and lowry and scola and martin
he also has a nice little habit of finding guys who can be somewhat productive outside of the lotto.
Has Morey ever pulled a cascades-of-picks-and-money trade-a-thon like our second pick last summer?
I’m genuinely asking. It almost seems like something he’d be capable of, but I think of him as much more purposeful than that.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Daryl Morey?
Trying to pull off a draft day Triple Lindy like the one Kahn just did?
Don’t make me laugh.
by fanslaststand on Jan 15, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
i love the part.......
…how kahn is shocked (SHOCKED!!!) that anyone could think he did those trades for the biangle buyout. he was just saving that money for his owner….so he could hand out a guaranteed 3 year deal to a second round pick who never has played a minute in the league.
That denial going in the Kahn's Comedy Classics Box Set
Best was when he tried to make ppl feel guilty for even considering it based on the fact that Glen saved professional basketball in Minnesota.
by fanslaststand on Jan 15, 2012 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
In theory I like the Lee contract.
It’s 3 years guaranteed, but at league minimum (sub $1 million all three years). We traded Lazar to clear the roster space. So it’s the rest of Lazar’s four year rookie deal for less money. I like that it’s three years when 2 seems to be more common when the contract isn’t guaranteed. I don’t have a problem with tying up bench spot 15 with an extremely inexpensive player who may or may not suck. I like the idea of absolutely minimizing cap space used on bench spots 11-15. What I don’t like is that our roster sucks enough at the wing we are hoping he can contribute.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Absolutely agree.
Sarver doesn’t get to sell the Suns picks for $$$ and hide from it. Kahn doesn’t go into a cascading money grab that leads to a new rule in the CBA and then hide from it.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Here's the change.
Before the change any deal between teams could include a maximum of $3 million in cash changing hands. A team could over the course of several trades bring in a lot of money especially if they netted close to $3 million in each transaction.
An example of how this worked. Trade a draft pick for a later draft pick plus $2 million. Trade that later draft pick for an even later draft pick plus $2 million. Trade a player for another player plus $3 million. In this fashion Kahn was able to raise a lot of money.
Now a team is limited to $3 million dollars of outgoing and incoming cash in trades over the course of the year. If a team trades player A for player B plus $2.5 million in cash, they are now limited to a maximum of $500,000 in additional incoming cash in any other deals they make that year. As a result the Knicks and Mavs can’t simply buy multiple draft picks for $3 million a piece from anyone willing to sell them. All teams now have an annual limit. Likewise Kahn can only raise so much cash by selling off the teams assets.
Some circles are referring to this as the Kahn rule or clause in response to the shameless auctioning off draft picks in last years draft. It was brilliant from a capital raising standpoint, but appears to have raised an issue the NBA immediately addressed. Subsidizing the bottom line of awful franchises is not the purpose of the draft. It’s supposed to be talent welfare not straight cash.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Jan 16, 2012 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Even though I wish Kahn had stuck with one of his earlier picks, I don't like the rule change.
I think teams should be able to sell their picks for whatever other teams are willing to pay.
Does anybody know aprox.
How much money we won in that draft?
by fanslaststand on Jan 16, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
well,
to be fair, he has to deny it publically. still, that fire sale got Rambis out and adelman in sooo, I for one am glad he did it. I would have wished it wasn’t necessary, but that is the world we live in.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 17, 2012 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
...dork elvis, god...
I hate Simmons and myself for getting that reference.
And yeah, I think Morey’s window came and went and he missed it. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets canned in a year or two.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 15, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Prior to Rubio arriving
the team looked like it was unable to implement an offense, and it seemed like a better coach could help the team implement an offense. Now that Rubio is here and is running an offense, and doing it very well, it’s obvious that the real problem was and is that most of the players are not serviceable, and especially that they can’t shoot.
A couple things I noticed
It seemed like we were giving up a lot of 2nd chance points in the the 4th quarter last night. In the 4th we were outrebounded 14-8 (not counting the team rebound in closing seconds). Of the 14 Hawks rebounds, 6 were offensive. I’m not sure if Love is getting winded or we’re rolling with smaller lineups. At one point last night I thought I noticed Ridnour, Rubio, and Ellington on the floor at the same time. I hope my eyes were playing tricks on me.
Darko and Pek aren’t aggressive rebounders and don’t provide Love with a lot of support inside. Beasley and Williams are both better rebounders than Darko and Pek and are both athletic enough to be physical without drawing fouls.
Can’t wait for Martell and especially Lee to come back.
That was part of Atlanta's
“we’re not getting called on our fouls so let’s foul the hell out of them” strategy which worked because we had no answer for them once they started playing rough without any whistles. Have you ever before seen Love “lose” so many balls he had both hands on?
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
I noticed that too...
although they seemed to swallow their whistles on both ends for the most part.
On a free throw
that the hawks got the offensive rebound, in the final Pek headed downcourt before the ball even hit the rim. Love made a try from the other side, and he clearly noted that it was Pek’s evacuation that allowed the Hawks guy to get the ball.
This is really random but piranha, that reminds me of my biggest Darko/bad rebounder (I’m grouping them together for this rant) pet peeve. On FTs, Darko and bad rebounders always assume the shooters gonna make the 2nd free throw. He barely boxes out and the ball has to fall in his hands for him to get a board. On the other hand, Love is boxing out aggressively no matter how good the FT shooter is and fights for the board no matter how uncontested it is.
It REALLY annoys me that something so simple like actually try and grab rebounds on the most predictable play in basketball is so foreign to bad rebounders/Darko. Really odd considering the missed FT is the perfect time to easily pad your rebounding stats. rant over
How bad would things seem without Rubio?
At least he gives the Wolves that second piece and some hope. Without Rubio, this team may struggle to 10 wins.
As a positive, this team is about two moves away from being a .500 team, just hope Kahn is capable of making ‘team’ building deals, not just talent gathering. Move Beasley for a legit SF or SG, doesn’t have to be great, just a legit starter at one of those positions, rather than a tweener trying to find a role. This lightens the Love, Beasley, Williams PF logjam, and balances the team on the floor.
The Wolves should also considering adding a bloated contract, as long as it is only for another year. It helps them compete this year and next, then is off the books before it prevents re-signing Love, Rubio, and Williams. They are selling out Target Center, so they should be able to add some salary, and adding a short term fix won’t affect this year’s draft. It also won’t stop any young players from developing, since they don’t have much to develop at the wing.
OJ Mayo
has been discussed ad nausem, but he’s on the block and the Nets are offering Morrow or Farmar and a draft pick.
He’s not a huge difference maker, but he’s a competent 2 who could really balance out our roster if we we’re able to get him for Randolph or Ridnour
WIN WIN
If Ridnour took the DuckofDeath with him to Memphis
by WinTheLottery on Jan 15, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
What's the story with him?
He seems to be available but no one seems to be biting? Is he that big of a wank or is Memphis asking way too much? (I don’t know, I’m wondering aloud)
Also, Portland just lowballed Batum (allegedly). I have to think that Luke and the Utah pick (for example) gets a conversation started with them. It doesn’t appear that they will be able to pay both Batum and Wallace. I’d take either one of those guys…and/or Mayo.
With some fairly modest moves (Not Love, Rubio or Williams) it seems the wing trio could potentially be upgraded to Mayo/Batum (or Wallace)/ and Bogans. I know Mayo and Batum have contracts coming up, but holy crap is that an upgrade over what we currently have been forced to watch.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
another thought
If the Nyets are trying to get Mayo on his expiring contract, and effectively clearing as much space as possible, does that mean Marshon Brooks could be had for a package centered around an expiring like Beasley and/or Randolph?
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
probly not
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 15, 2012 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
"Throw in 2 straight games with no local TV coverage and not only is the NBA delivering a rather shitty product, but they are still essentially locking you out from a decent chunk of the schedule."
And charging a f*cking fortune for the privilege.
Live And Stupid From England
totally agree
I assume you are calling from the sceptered isle…as I am?
If only we’d known we could have split the £100.00 or whatever it is for the NBA.tv subscription…maybe next year?
An absolute liberty has been taken this year…especially with an abbreviated season.
Not getting particularly good or consistent streaming quality either but that could be to do with the b/band speed in the Highlands of Scotland.
Isn't there the added expense of translating it into Scotch English, though? Och.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Yeah, down south near Laaaahndahn.
But yeah £113 just for 66 Wolves games, were the quality of basketball has been dramatically affected by squabbling over money annoys me.
Could definitely be up for splitting it next year.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 16, 2012 7:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
And the quality of mine is pretty poor too
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 16, 2012 7:54 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
don't forget
you can’t watch with 2 people at the same time. But if you can work that out..
by Wim (Belgium) on Jan 16, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
if you know each other
one of you can log in and then share the screen via Skype or eVO (or any other screen sharing software). The person with LeaguePass and the screen sharing would be an absolute bandwidth WHORE, but it, ahem, should work…
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Just a few quick thoughts
Martell has been cleared for full contact practice now, very excited to see how he looks next to Rubio at the 2 or even 3 if it means Wes never sees the floor again.
I cannot wait to get Lee back, I think he will take every one of Wayne’s minutes eventually. He is a great defender and looked to have good slashing skills and a serviceable jump shot. He could be a really good fit at the 2.
I want to see Pek get more minutes. I know he needs to figure out how to count and not set illegal screens, but he has good touch around the basket and can manhandle and dominate almost anyone down low.
We need JJ back. And I sill hold out hope for Beasley.
I watch this team, and i care so much, simply because i can’t not. It’s just a part of who i am..
Don't take this the wrong way
but is there a link to the Martell info? I thought I had read he was getting checked out tomorrow (Monday).
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Rubio/JJ/Beas/Love/AR
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 15, 2012 12:49 PM CST reply actions
I can't watch Beasley play basketball
until he’s our 6th man chucker that gets us back in games.
by fanslaststand on Jan 15, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
I'm actually missing beas
He can handle the ball, draw the defense to him, spread the floor. If he stopped taking so many poor shots and committing so many dumb turnovers…
Cant
wait until Webster, Barea, Lee, and Beasley come back.
Beasley would be such a great fit if only he could play with the team…
Webster would also have given us a legit starting 2 or 3. Lee would also give us great minutes sharing the 2 spot with ellington and sometimes webster…
Cant wait till everyone comes back… Luke Ridnour would be much more disposable after that.
Love needs to play his game
He killed us at the end, he needs to realize the type of player he is and not try to do too much. For some reason he’s decided to play more 1 on 1 but he is NOT that type of player, I have yet to see him be successful when he does this. He is in there to score off offensive rebounds and hit open shots.
ya
But no one else is giving any help
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 6:42 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Rubio is
his ball movement has set Love and others up for many open/in-rhythm shots and I wish Love would stick with this because he really isn’t a good 1 on 1 player.
I know a lot of people aren’t happy with Beasley but having him out has also really hurt Love. Beasley is really our only player capable of creating and getting to the rim consistently, this helps Love because the D needs to help which tend to lead to easy put backs for Love.
Beasley may be capable of getting to the rim,
but he usually doesn’t. Most of the shots he creates are pretty misses.
Come on. Beasley’s done pretty bad this year but just last year he shot 45% from the field with a TS% of 51%. Admittedly, both are below average but they aren’t HORRIBLE and theoretically, they should go up with Rubio getting him easier shots. His percentages this year are more likely flukes or a slump.
I know his numbers this year have been bad, but the notion that the presence of Beasley hurts so much more than it helps blows my mind. He’s not that bad.
The point I was addressing is that Beasley is “our only player capable of creating and getting to the rim consistently.” The problems with that statement is that a) he doesn’t get to the rim consistently and b) he is, at best, a below average scorer in terms of efficiency. The shots he creates are mostly long 2-pointers that he doesn’t hit often enough.
If we can get last year’s Beasley back he’ll be helpful just by being less bad than the other options we have. I still hope we don’t extend him. I really don’t miss him.
I love the whole "but he's the only guy who can create his own shot" bit with Beasley
Create, yes…make a lot, no. I could create a whole lot of running 30 foot hook shots.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 15, 2012 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's why he works well with Love
The misses turn into offensive rebounds for Love. I don’t know if there’s a way to look it up but just general observation from watching games is that Love gets more offensive rebounds off of misses around the rim then missed jump shots.
Isn’t Beasley decent at making shots around the rim? It looks like he averages about 3 out of 4 a game near the rim.
Seems to me that Beas always misses close shots in any kind of traffic.
And he never draws enough contact to get the foul called.
I don't think I've heard too many people say missed shots are a good thing.
The “create his own shot” bit woth Beas is like saying that Wes Johnson is the only guy on the team who can really shoot the three. It sure looks pretty going up, but….The problem here is a lack of results. Results matter.
You know who would work better with Love? Someone who made more shots.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 15, 2012 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Beasley is mediocre at the rim
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Michael%20Beasley
Also, even if he was shooting 100% at the rim, it wouldn’t matter because he’s only taking about 1/3 of his shots at the rim.
This is why I hate advanced stats sometimes. Things get blown completely out of proportion.
Beasley’s stats last year: 45% FG, 36.6% 3FG, 51% TS%, 45.3% Assisted. 19.2 PPG
Are those stats incredibly mind blowing? No. Are they so bad you should compare all of Beasley’s shots to running 30 foot hook shots? I know you’re exaggerating but the sentiment around here is that Beasley is good at doing nothing but creating a bunch of misses.
No, he’s pretty good at scoring too. That 45% assisted shows that he creates his shot a ton for a SF. Everyone loves Deng and even while creating his shot a LOT more, Beas was only slightly less efficient. I mean, I guess it’s just me but I really don’t think Beasley’s numbers are THAT bad.
a few criticisms of Beasley:
1. Look at the number of free throws Beasley shoots, it’s startlingly low.
2. Watch Beasley play, he’s an ok man defender but tends to get lost when his man moves without the ball, this has been improved this year.
3. Watch what happens when Beasley catches a pass. His usual M.O. is to stop for about 4 second survey the defense, then either shoot a jumper or dribble once then shoot a jumper. Everyone on the team knows he’s not passing so they stop moving.
4. He won’t set screens for Rubio…. (this is quite baffling)
5. He very rarely will cut when Rubio has the ball. He just stands in his spot waiting for the ball and his isolation opportunity.
There are times when I’m tempted to cut Beasley some slack and think that I’m too hard on him because I think he should be better than he is, even though he’s OK. Then I watch him play again and I remember why he irritates the crap out of me most of the time.
On the stats thing, I don’t think TS% is particularly advanced. We may disagree on that, but I think it sums up scoring efficiency pretty well. Among players who played at least 750 minutes last year, Beasley ranked 221st out of 299. That’s pretty bad.
When I broke down shooting percentages by location, Beasley comes up OK (about average) at each location, but his distribution of shots across locations sucks. He has the ability to be pretty good, but he just isn’t. And he hasn’t been for long enough that it’s pretty reasonable to wonder whether he’ll ever get it.
"he has the ability to be pretty good"
It’s like the vikings and McKinnie, he received a lot of criticism because he could have been the best left tackle in the league but even though he gave minimal effort he was still one of the better tackles. It’s the same with Beasley, I think this gets held against him a little too much. If he played the way we all want him to he would be an MVP candidate every season. Although I think we saw some changes before the injury we need to accept the player he is.
This is very nicely put
The point I am trying to make here is that the type of skill required to “create ones own shot” is precisely that: a skill. There are precious few in the world who are good at it. Even guys like Melo really aren’t that good at it in terms of a ppp basis. It is really not that much different than, say, having the skill to shoot a three or get to the line. It is just another way to score.
The problem Beasley has isn’t that he isnt’t that type of player; rather, it is that he isn’t that good at it. He is a lesser Melo. It is an amazingly inefficient way to score and he isn’t that good at the skill to begin with.
My hope for Beas is that he can develop into a guy who crashes the living hell out of the boards from the 3 spot, step back for more threes, and put his considerable athleticism to good use on the defensive end. In the long run, he has a much better chance of becoming a rebounding, three point shooting defensive 3 than he does becoming The Guy who can “create his own shot”. He has that skill and he isn’t very good at it.
what's up with rubio and ridnour?
For the last 2 games there has been a dramatic change in the way rubio is running the offense,where ridnour is concerned he has stopped getting him the ball for catch and shoot. and if you are playing the 2 and not getting any good touches, you are SOL! Last night he got one pass from riubio in the second half, a 3 from the left hand corner and that was it. What is the motive? Is it got to do with Barea taking ridnours spot when he comes back. That may be it. The 2 does more running in a offense than anyone else, and if you aren’t rewarded with a open shot when it is there it has to be very discouraging.rubio and love are having fun playing together but their are 3 other guys on the floor too,and they need them to fill their roles also if they want to win.
I will explain.
Ridnour doesn’t know he is playing the 2. In his head he is the “real” 1 and Rubio is the overhyped whipper-snapper like Jennings was on the Bucks. Ridnour has “new guard baggage” and he doesn’t like getting demoted (and who does?).
So when Rubio gives Ridnour the ball he goes into PG mode. He dribbles around for a while and then will often give the ball back to Rubio at the bottom of the shot clock in a bad position, showing that in Ridnour’s head, Rubio is the 2 and Riddy is the 1.
So Rubio is just realizing that Ridnour isn’t that good and he is not giving him the ball anymore. Case closed.
It drives me crazy
when Ridnour does that. And then, after he’s forgotten that he’s the SG, he forgets that he thought he think he is the PG and doesn’t pass the ball either.
When JJ comes back, I don’t want to see Ridnour on the court with Rubio. JJ knows his role and Rubio’s role and complements him as well as any 5’10" man can.
by RandyCrouton on Jan 15, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Hey wolver
Case closed you are a real funny guy you know! So Rubio is making the coaching decisions now also.Wow it is a good thing that gm’s and coach’s have liked Ridnour throughout the years. This is his 9th and he is under contract through 12.how about that!
yeah I missed the Atlanta game
but it’s hard to watch him get the ball able to take an open shot and start dribbling aimlessley ala Wes Johnson (ok maybe not that bad) and it was sure happening a lot.
Turkoglu?
I don’t know if the Magic want to shake up their roster while they are winning so much, but they could clear a lot of salary for a Deron Williams run. He can create for himself and others.
The only way Hedu should sniff this roster
Is if we need to take him on in order to get D12. Even then I’m still not thrilled with that contract.
More
i watch Martell Webster, the more i believe that the Twolves can be a threat to go deep in the playoffs if they can just put all the chemistry together in time.
Where can I watch Martell Webster?
I’m intrigued.
by fanslaststand on Jan 15, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
When do we play the Adelman Davids?
Cuz I think we can beat them.
Hey, that's my JCC team!
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 15, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Adelman David
Sounds like a fancy office chair.
by fanslaststand on Jan 15, 2012 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
I can totally see Kahn watching a prospect shoot against a chair
And in the middle of the workout bringing out a different style chair for him to go against.
by fanslaststand on Jan 15, 2012 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
obligitory question
Does the chair belong to Yi Jianlian?
Remember "Chairman Yi"
What an epic nickname.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 16, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know if I'm reading this wrong
but isn’t Wayne Ellington the best TS% guy on our whole team the past two games?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
SnP said though
that only Love and Rubio had TS% over 52, which is incorrect at least as far as my understanding of the stat goes.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
That was my guess
Ellington is getting closer in my view to being in the “reliable backup” category
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
if they aren't going to play Williams
they have to trade him.
It’s going to be impossible for him to get in any sort of rythmn or find consistency playing the pt he’s been getting
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
?
He’s not playing because he’s been playing bad when he gets in, and his position is the same as Love’s. So if he is not playing well, it’s hard to find a spot for him. He’s a rookie, I wouldn’t worry about it.
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 6:45 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
It seemed like he was playing well when he was actually playing
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Have you watched him play the lst few games????
He is struggling at both ends. He will get it back together in time.
Waiting for Relevancy...
are we basically saying that....
the non-Love, non-Rubio Wolves are actually WORSE than one year ago? Ye gods.
by dontbesomean youngfella on Jan 15, 2012 3:07 PM CST reply actions
Not Worried Yet
We definitely can/should be better than 4-8, but let’s keep in mind . . .
1. Lee/Webster haven’t played yet. I don’t have high expectations for either but they can’t be worse than Wes.
2. Barea and Beasley have also missed significant time with injuries.
3. Adelman needs more practice time. He has already had an influence on D, and I expect we’ll see more and more elements of the Princeton offense put in place as the year goes on.
4. Several rotation players are playing far below their career numbers: Darko, AT, and even Wes. Ditto Beas, when he has played.
5. Williams will get better.
by Vlade on Jan 15, 2012 3:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Every team deals with injuries
The only time its really valid talk is if it was say Love or Rubio that was injured, and even then we have played teams without their best players
Jonny "back o' chips" Flynn is the GOAT
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 15, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
The Hornets' lineup the other night looked like New Jersey, sans Deron Williams.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Or looked like the Hornets
Without Eric Gordon.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
True
I’m not blaming the start on injuries. I just think it’s a bit early too conclude anything about the team and the roster given the injuries and major struggles of some rotation players.
obviously every team has injuries
But it’s still a valid point. They won’t turn is into a title team, but they will improve depth, and likely would have bumped us up a win or two.
by TO12 on Jan 15, 2012 6:51 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Agree
but Adelman really needs to play Williams a lot more…
I'm with you
I think Adelman needs to give some of AT’s minutes to Williams. Williams will make more mistakes but we need the extra punch.
On #3
With an opening day speech and a few days of camp, Adelman turned us around from the 4th worst defense over the past two seasons to now the #9 defense in the league. I’m not sure where we’ll end up for the season, but considering the level of competition we’ve played so far, I gotta believe we will be in the top half of the league. Quite a turnaround.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 15, 2012 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
Winning formula
Just need rubio playing with the starter and with the bench.
Next question ?
by SMB on Jan 15, 2012 5:15 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Love should have never....
opened the pie hole about Beasy (even though I happen to agree with Love’s statement). As a leader you don’t publicly disenfranchise a fellow player with such potential. Very bush league of Love. Rubio is still too immature to know how to deal with KLove’s ego so he does all he knows how to do and keep Love happy. This combination over the last two games has killed the strides made in which we all applauded the great ball movement. It in fact makes KLove look like a hypocrite in light of his comments about Beasy. Since this menause de dos has begun to blossom the growth of DWill, Wes and Darko has become even more inconsistent. Ridnour understand the job of the PG best. Sticking Luke in the corner farthest from Rubio is a waste. Rubio, having size over Luke should be playing the 2 guard more often and allowed to create off the dribble and really still capable of a great many assists. Minimizing the effect of Luke’s presence on the court isn’t a winning formula.