Trade Derrick Williams for Eric Gordon
We need to make a trade soon. We have fresh produce going rotten on our bench. If we are not going to play D-Will then we need to trade him sooner than later.
The most common response is that it is too soon to trade him. So we should wait until he at the Jonny Flynn or Wes Johnson level? He clearly has talent. But he also has Love in front of him not going anywhere. 8 minutes a night is destroying his value.
Per a recent article from nba.com, the Hornets are in a tough position with Gordon because they can't extend him because of their ownership situation but they can't let him get too close to free agency (1.5 years away.)
Eric Gordon, Hornets (7th)
Gordon is in a tough position; with the Hornets currently owned by the NBA, the likelihood of the league okaying a major financial commitment to anyone before the team is sold (Commissioner David Stern maintained last month that that could happen by the spring) is iffy -- especially considering how the league insisted on young, inexpensive players as part of the Chris Paul deal. (Not to mention the fact that the team's other "owners" -- the 28 other teams -- weren't all that happy when New Orleans acquired Carl Landry and his salary last year at the trade deadline.) And Gordon might be reluctant to re-up with New Orleans until the team is sold, if at all. But the two sides are "working on it," a source texted Sunday night.
Gordon fills are biggest need right away, although a starting center that has a pulse would be nice.
D-WIll can be a featured player for the Hornets as they seek to build an identity. If they want another piece, fine.
Your thoughts?
If we aren't going to make a significant trade soon than it is time to max Love and clear the books as much as possible for next year. It is so frustrating watching a team play with only a partial roster of actual NBA players.
Also, Wes and Darko can not be starters much longer. They are brutal. They just can't make basic basketball plays. Darko has some moments defensively, but he is epically awful offensively at this point. Pek at least can knock people around as he did tonight with Cousins.
151 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Been saying this for weeks now
It’s going to take more than Williams to get it done. His value is high, but I view him as a sliiiight disappointment thus far. Of course he can still turn things around, and I believe he will.
Williams + future first + cap filler for Gordon in a SnT @ 13 million per year.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
At this point you can throw in anything not named Rubio or Love
I would be fine with throwing in a pick to get a player like Gordon.
by MIkePenberthy on Jan 16, 2012 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
This is where you wish Wes Johnson had some value
Because a Demarcus Cousins & Derrick Williams package is much more attractive. IMO.
Premature
I have too much faith in Adelman’s coaching and D-will’s potential to bail on him thirteen games into the season. Even assuming that you’re right and that he’s buried behind Love, can we at least wait until Love signs an extension?
Mercy, we’re not the spurs or the celtics. One of the best things about being a young team is that we can afford to wait.
by hipity on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
THIS
Thank you – well stated.
Be patient!
by Jordan Seiffert on Jan 16, 2012 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
Well, kind of
But EG would pretty much be the perfect option next to Rubio. We can wait in the sense of waiting for a good deal to come along, but why would you pass on a borderline all-star 2 guard just to see if your backup PF develops into a borderline all-star? No reason to wait just for the sake of waiting. If you can actually make this deal happen (I don’t think you can) then you have to do it.
Adleman's coaching=dwill's benching
whether this will ultimately be a good thing or not, the problem still exists that probably our 3rd most talented player (and has been very productive when given clock) is essentially rotting on the bench.
I LOVE Derrick Williams NBA potential, but if RA is not going to play him we need to consider dealing him.
Eric Gordon is one of the guys I think we should strongly look into, maybe a Williams/Ridnour for Gordon and our pick or something…or if we really wanna get crazy Williams/Ridnour/Beasley/Randolph for Gordon/pick/Okafor (Beas/Rand=cap relief for Oak)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
That is kind of a reverse line of thought from me
I think we deal DWill if an opportunity presents itself, but there is really nothing forcing us to do anything otherwise. Rookies can play limited minutes their first year, it’s really not a big deal, and it happens all the time.
For all the talk about needing to get in-game minutes, it might actually be better for a rookie to progress slowly and learn the finer points, instead of running around with their head cut off.
Anyways, there is really no reason that we ‘need’ to deal Williams. If something good comes along, sure, but otherwise, just let it work out. Wait till next year, see if he can play the 3 after an offseason, see what deals come along.
You're right that we don't "need to"
Unless we want to get better. Gordon is the type of established talent that if we could get a sign-and-trade which would be well worth our effort. Not to mention picking up a starting 2 guard allows us to deal from our depth at PG if we want to make another trade to shore up the 3 or 5 positions. It balances the team and it’s not like we’re making another deal for an AR/Darko/Beasley/potential guy who might do what DW might do. We are instead getting an established 2 guard who in his third year showed himself to be an above average player with great handles, driving ability and shoots the 3 ball well enough to keep defenses honest.
Williams has shown flashes, but long term unless you can’t sign Love I see no reason to gamble on keeping more potential that will mostly be a bench player when we theoretically could get another starter. Make the trade bigger and get Okafor and I’d be really happy.
? What are you reading
I said dealing for EG would be great (or I guess in this comment it was ‘if something great comes along’… dealing for EG would be great).
Anyways, I was replying to Voodoo he seemed to be a proponent of ‘play him or trade him.’ I’m saying we don’t need to trade him to to make a trade…
It was mainly the nothing forcing us bit
Unless the F.O. really feels like talks with Love are headed south, I really think finding a good deal for him (Gordon not being the only viable target) really just makes too much sense to not pursue. I will honestly be a bit disappointed if he follows your limited minutes slow progression rational idea. I’m sick of rooting for the cellar dwellers and I want results now damnit! (don’t sell low however)
I don't think I'm reverse what you are thinking
I certainly think the bar for what we trade Williams for is set with Eric Gordon, nothing less should be considered. But Eric Gordon is very gettable because of his contract situation, so now would kind of be the time to get him.
I hate it that Williams is not playing, maybe I’ll be wrong about this, but it’s tough for me to see how a guy can get better by not playing.
It’s obvious Williams is forcing it now because he knows that if he doesn’t do “something” he’s not going back in the game. That is not healthy for players and it is how they develop bad habits (like looking for their own shot first).
I’m willing to be wrong…I just don’t see it though
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 17, 2012 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Gotta take RA at his word
He’s stated last week that he needs to get D-will more playing time. Let’s just give RA more than three games to deliver.
I doubt Gordon is gettable
He was the centerpiece of the Chris Paul trade, they not likely to trade him away immediately. It would be very bad PR.
by princelyfrank on Jan 18, 2012 4:17 AM CST up reply actions
Wouldn't it be worse if he didn't sign with them?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
RFA doesn't give Gordon a viable option to leave.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Why would we trade him?
He’s shown great potential when he has been on the field for a consistent amount of time.
What field?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 17, 2012 2:10 AM CST up reply actions
rofl
sorry i meant court… too preoccupied in football
I was just imagining the team stranding him in a corn field.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 17, 2012 6:20 PM CST up reply actions
Because EG fills a need
Maybe Williams will be better, this, that and the other, but what is the point of waiting for Williams’ potential if you can get someone who has already realized (or very close) their potential.
A solid backup PF
Is also a need. How long can KLove keep posting 42 minutes per game?
by Jordan Seiffert on Jan 17, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Ya, but so is a solid 3rd center
Starting SG is a little more pressing. Besides, we have 3 guys besides Love and Will who can play PF (and it is probably all their natural positions)
Solid backup PF are available at or below the mid-level exemption.
It’s one position that isn’t talent scarce.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
A solid back-up PF is not nearly as important as a starting SG.
I’ll worry about quality depth after we get quality starters.
I’d MUCH rather have Love and Gordon with Randolph backing up Love, than Williams backing up Love and having no starting caliber wings.
He
also will fill a need. He when it all is said and done, can be rickys number one running mate for years to come. We all saw the different array of offensive moves and dribbles this dude has as well whether it was the one step behind the back jumper or his very quick fake turn right fake and one step explode to the rim in the post.
While Gordon is a great player and a need, we have not even played him for 20 games! 20 games! There is no need to trade a player like his caliber and potential in 20 games as a rookie, and I believe he fits into our system very well as he can shoot the long ball, explode to the basket whether it is to dunk or for a board, and is well on his way to creating his own shots in the nba. And the point for waiting is that D will could turn into Iguadola with a much better shot and dribble.
D Will could turn into Iguadola with a much better shot and dribble?
You mean the guy who entered the league as a 248 lb PF is going to become a better wing than the 217 lb guard who has a career per 36 of 14.8/5.5/4.5 and has All NBA Defensive 2nd team honors last year?
I don’t get it. even as rookies
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Jan 17, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Thrilla has the ability to be a supremely excellent NBA player
Iggy is an odd comparison, not sure why the guy went there.
I would say Thrilla’s ceiling could be a poor man’s Lebron, he has the size, athletic ability, and overall game of Lebron…it is just on a much more tame talent level. I get that mentioning Lebron with a rookie is dicey, but I don’t think I’m saying Thrilla will be top 5, just that he is a bigger bodied guy who is still an excellent athlete and has the game of a SF. Probably could drop 8 pounds or so, but he’s a unique skill guy and it’s tough to find many comps that work.
Danny Granger seems to be a guy who has a similar skill-set/athletic/size set, but I would even say Williams driving ability could ultimately be better than Granger.
all in all, he’s a rookie, he could I guess still bust, he’s also 20 which means he’s got A) Baby fat to lose, B) Room to grow, C) time to grow.
You absolutely trade him for Gordon, but for other players tred very very carefully.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 17, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Crazy talk.
What all-around game? He averaged 1 assist per 40 as a freshman and 1.5 assist per 40 as a sophomore. He wasn’t a top end rebounder in college and is sporting a TRB% of 11.9%. He may be built impressively and be able to dribble, but he’s not a Point-Forward.
Either he’s player that can score, board some and play defense or he’s not. His elite skill in college was scoring efficiently.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
fair enough
the point forward thing is right. He’s not that.
I was more looking at it from a big-bodied wing than anything.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Total crazy talk.
He’s not in the same league athletically with LeBron. He doesn’t have nearly his vision or handle.
The only thing they have in common is they’re both built like 3/4 tweeners, but LeBron has SF skills that Williams can only dream of.
I'm just gonna quote some of my original post
ceiling could be a poor man’s Lebron
he has the size, athletic ability, and overall game of Lebron…it is just on a much more tame talent level. (I’ll give you the overall game part)
Danny Granger seems to be a guy who has a similar skill-set/athletic/size set, but I would even say Williams driving ability could ultimately be better than Granger.
all in all, he’s a rookie, he could I guess still bust, he’s also 20 which means he’s got A) Baby fat to lose, B) Room to grow, C) time to grow.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Stop. He does NOT have the athletic ability or overall game of LeBron.
He just doesn’t. LeBron is a freak athlete and incredibly explosive. Williams isn’t either.
And a big part of LeBron’s overall game is his handle, vision and passing. Williams doesn’t have any of those 3.
What part are you misreading in my post
I put in bold the words that clearly state that I don’t think he has the athletic ability or overall game of LeBron
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Bold doesn't show up in Chrome on a Mac.
So I see “he has the size, athletic ability, and overall game of Lebron”
Even on a “much more tame talent level” strikes me as being wildly inaccurate.
ehh I guess it depend how you read into it
i look at what I am saying as if Lebron is a 10/10 then poor man’s would be 5 maybe 6/10
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He strikes me a bit as a bigger, less athletic Gerald Wallace.
Both guys are 3/4 tweeners, potentially similar rebounders. Both have the ability to get to the line some and shoot from deep some.
But he’s nowhere near the defender Wallace is.
Bigger Granger
would be the most accurate comparison I think.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
no
do not brand him with the Mark of Flynn.
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on Jan 17, 2012 12:07 AM CST reply actions
Will Williams be better than Eric Gordon?
I don’t think he will, plus he’s not a great fit here anyway. It just seems smart to deal Williams now if we can get Gordon. If not, then keep him.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
I think Williams absolutely has a chance to be better than Gordon
Williams has shown some pretty harcore NBA ability. The fit is awkward, which I don’t really get because whether he is a long-term 3 or not, I can’t imagine he’d play it worse than Wes or Beasley has so far…..but there is a very real chance we lose this trade.
Now, EG is one of the 2-3 players I would be interested in trading Williams for (the other notable one is James Harden)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 17, 2012 7:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see it...
at least not yet. So far he has offered the potential to be a 3 point sniper, but he is inconsistent. He has rebounded pretty well, but nothing that I would consider eye popping. Defense is so so. I expected soooooo much more out of DW out of the gate. I thought for sure he would be a dynamic slasher and finisher at the rim but he has been just the opposite. He has had trouble finishing around the rim and he flat out can’t figure out how to use his handles to put himselft in the right spot to slash to the rim. It is alarming IMO. There were 2 plays that I saw last night by Kings players that left me thinking THAT is what DW needs to develop in his game. Evans and Salmons both did it. They got the ball on the wing, did a little shake and bake, got their man off balance, got to the mid range area, rose up, and nailed it. DW has shown that when isolated, the first few dribbles he fakes his man out and gets him off balance, but from there he tries to take it into traffic and has difficulty finishing. He needs to learn the pull up J game. His talents are ripe for that. After watching all of his pre-draft work out vids that was another skill I was sure he was going to bring but he hasn’t. I don’t see how DW will ever be any better than Gordon, plain and simple. EG is the definition of a 2 guard and does everything a 2 guard should at an all star level.
That's because Evans and Salmons are wings
While Williams is a PF. It would also be great is Darko got handles and started flashing. There wasn’t really any reason to think DWill would become a dynamic wing player, CH just thought if they said it enough he would…
In college
he showed the ability to slash to the rim and finish with confidence. That was a big part of his game. I’m not saying he’s a pure 3, but there are 4’s in this league who do all types of things. Some are bangers. Some are stretch 4’s. Some are tweener 3/4’s, which is what DW is. And if you’re a tweener 3/4 you damn well better have some handles to create a little space. Optimally I’d like to see him post up at the elbow and get the ball, not way out on the wing. At the elbow he could turn and face and need 1 or 2 quick dribbles to get to the mid range or all the way to the hoop. If he starts out closer (elbow) as opposed to the deep wing, teams won’t be able to bait him into charges when he drives. It will be a quicker type of drive from a shorter distance. Hey man I hope he pans out, but right now he’s frustrating to watch. And I made a mistake, it wans’t Salmons, it was Donte Green, who is a 3/4 tweener by the way.
In college Williams showed the ability to beat college bigs off the dribble.
But he also turned the ball over on 16% of his possessions. I don’t see him having the same success against NBA PFs.
He was also...
typically playing against college centers. There is a pretty massive difference between college centers and pro forwards
ehh
Here is the thing about college ball, and ultimately why 2 guards are in short supply in the pro level
because height is more than not a big reason of why guys get drafted in the top 5, there really aren’t any 7 footers in college. Most centers are around 6’9, if that. 6’6 guys like Lazar Hayward have to develop post games out of nessecity instead of working on their guard skills and thus the 2 guard spot has almost been completely eliminated in college to pro transitions as most colleges end up playing 6’3 and under guys at the 2.
I would say in terms of skill set and style the majority of the players that were guarding DThrill were probably in the 6’9 230-250 range. which basically makes them a forward in the NBA.
Now they all obviously aren’t NBA caliber players, but it’s not like he was being guarded by sluggish oafs like Pekavic for his whole career
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 17, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
...
I would say in terms of skill set and style the majority of the players that were guarding DThrill were probably in the 6’9 230-250 range. which basically makes them a forward in the NBA.
In terms of size, yes… in terms of athleticism, not even close.
yes, you are right.
but again, it’s not like he was being guarded by post-only guys.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He was being guarded, mostly, by big, relatively slow college Centers.
Guys with no chance to make it in the NBA. Guys who would be destroyed by an average NBA PF.
He just didn’t show much outside of 3 pointers and getting to the line. He took 5 pull-up jumpers last year. And most of his jumpshots, were clean, open looks. He rarely took a contested or forced shot (which can be good, but to be a big-time scorer, you need to be able to hit tough shots too).
And I’m still not impressed with his athleticism when he drives. He’s somewhat explosive, but he’s a slow jumper, and if he doesn’t have time to gather and go from 2 feet, he’s likely not going to power through anyone. He’s great catching lobs, not nearly so much when he starts with the ball in his hands.
40/29/65 is not a good start.
Agreed
DWill really isn’t the athlete a lot of people like to make him out to be. An athlete to be sure, he is big, strong and can jump. But like Simitar said, he isn’t an elite NBA athlete. He isn’t a PF sized guy who can play the 3 just cause he wants to. He has slow feet, and moves akwardly which does a great deal to negate his length on both offense and defense.
I want to like Williams, and I really want to be wrong about him,
because he’s a Wolf. But a nagging part of me harkens back to Donyell Marshall, and how we had the foresight to trade him when his value was still perceived as being real high.
Plus I’m grumpy that NBA GMs just voted Valanciunas as the “best international player not currently in the NBA”.
JoVal was just the 5th pick in the draft
a head of 4 Americans who are in the NBA….doesn’t that by default make him the best prospect not in the NBA?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No.
Only if you only consider players drafted last year as the only international players not in the NBA.
right but who is even out there?
it’s not like any recent intl players have skipped the NBA since Rubio, who is now in the NBA.
So basically he is the highest drafted prospect in the past 3-5 years for an intl player who is not in the NBA. Unless there is someone else. I think it makes him by default the top prospect.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Hank Norel!
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on Jan 17, 2012 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
You keep adding the word "prospect"
He was voted best player not in the NBA. That includes guys who are dominating elsewhere but don’t want (or can’t) to come to the NBA. He’s 19 years old and NBA GMs say he’s the best player not currently in the NBA.
Dthrill was also voted best rookie athlete
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 18, 2012 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
I thought JCN actually won that
Val and Kirelenko were 2 & 3 receptively. Anyhoo I still maintain we should have drafted Val not DWill. Oh well.
From the link:
Jonas Valanciunas received 36% of the vote, followed by Juan Carlos Navarro (32%) and Andrei Kirilenko (20.0%).
Aren't most people in the NCAA
guarded by guys who have no chance to make it in the NCAA?
Harrison Barnes dropped 25 on 62% shooting against BC a few games back
this is the guy who guarded him
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/41000/matt-humphrey
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
*make it in the NBA
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yes. Most people are guarded by guys with no chance to make the NBA.
But Williams taking college 5s off the dribble (and now having to do it against Pro 3s and 4s) isn’t the same as Barnes taking college 3s and 4s off the dribble (and soon having to take Pro 2s and 3s off the dribble).
I think you are stretching it a little
Harrison Barnes is going to have to adjust his game to the speed of the NBA too. He’s spending the majority of his year being played by future liftetime superstars and if he’s lucky some end of the bench NBA guys….if that.
The thing holding Williams back right now is playing time, but that is my opinion.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
All players have to adjust.
But there are skills and abilities that are generally more transferable from college to the Pros than others.
And I’ve always been of the opinion that Williams’ best assets were not likely THAT transferable.
yes.
But that is the gamble on Williams, and that is why my willingness to trade him is predicated on the return value getting a younger guy who can score…cause that is theoretically the talent that Williams has.
Gordon would be very welcomed in my book.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Watching Barnes in the tourney last year
The size, skill and even BBIQ looked good but his motor was absolutely terrible.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 17, 2012 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
I for one am glad
Darko is not flashing
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 17, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Eh
Bad typo. I meant slashing, but I guess it’s all relative on this one… haha
I think flashing rates higher
on the do not want to see scale.
It almost certainly won't happen until Love signs his extension
The FO will keep D-Thrill as insurance until that point, IMO.
And it probably won’t happen until after the season because why would the Hornets want to make us a better team this year, when they have our unprotected first in a great draft?
That said, I like our guy a lot but I would make this trade as soon as we know Love is gonna be around for a while.
by Black Jack Davy on Jan 17, 2012 4:10 AM CST reply actions
Get our pick back in the deal ;)
then the Hornets won’t worry about it
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 17, 2012 7:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I am mostly in the keep D. Williams camp
but Gordon is the kind of guy that could make me change my mind. That said I have two concerns. One is Gordon’s inability to stay healthy. I think this is starting to look like an ongoing issue. My second concern is salary cap space. I have not looked into this in any real way so if I am way off let me know but it seems that if Love and Rubio are both max or near max players Gordon may potentially a reach in terms of long term team building.
Salary cap not an issue.
Rubio has 3 more years for rookie scale after this one. Love isn’t extended yet. Worst financial case would be 25% of cap max contract for 5 years with 7.5% raises for Love. Rubio wouldn’t become and issue until year 4 of the hypothetical extension. If Love was extended 5 years and Gordon was acquired in a extend and trade he would only be eligible for a 4 year extension. So only one year of overlap would exist between contracts for Love, Gordan and post rookie scale Rubio. This is the type of problem you want to have.
Okafor and Gordan is another matter all-together. Okafor would create minor cap problems already next year if paired with Love and Gordon, but the good news is that a lot of out-going salary would need to go to the Hornets to make the deal happen in the first place. Second he’s only guaranteed for next season with an early term option he is almost certainly not going to exercise putting him under contract with someone through 2013-2014. He’d be off the books before Rubio’s rookie deal ended.
The problem is we can’t get both Gordon and Okafor. Now that the salary floor is rising to 90% of the cap and the Hornets already have Kaman coming off the books I can’t fathom them dumping Okafor strictly as a salary dump. They’d need actual talent back. Getting Gordon would be highly unlikely. Getting their second best player too would be darn near impossible.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Guess you're a greater cap mind than I am
Hadn’t thought of the 90% issue and how it may effect their willingness to trade Okafor. What if we sent back guys on shorter term deals. We could ship back Beasley and Web who they could keep around for another year, giving them more flexibility in the short term as they try to find an owner?
Without an owner I have not idea what they will do.
I’d love to consolidate a center or two (Pekovic/Darko/Miller) and a wing (Johnson/Beasley/Webster) into a productive 5 like Okafor with a career defensive rebounding rate of 25% and a Drtg of 104, but I’m not writing the checks for either team.
For basketball reasons New Orleans shouldn’t entertain the idea of trading him for below average performers. “Basketball reasons” prevented them from acquiring 3 solid players for Chris Paul in favor of a draft pick an expiring big at a position they have covered and one solid young player due an extension. I just can’t say what they will or won’t do, but they shouldn’t trade Okafor for the mediocre to poor performers we’d offer. His contract is bad enough though it’s in the realm of reason.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
if we can do this trade
I am an NBA fan from China, and Timberwolves is my favorite team, I suggest to trade Michael Beasley + Wes Johnson + Nikola Pekovic exchange for Eric Gorden and Emeka Okafor, Hornet can get rid of the big contract of Okafor and get one scorer with B-Easy, may be we can add another first round pick from Utah we owed.
Just out of cursiousity
Is there a wolves-china connection that I’m not aware of? Why are you a t-wolves fan?
Loving the international CH'ers
You are a better trading mind than I
Jonny "bag o' chips" Flynn is the GOAT
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 18, 2012 3:51 AM CST up reply actions
That trade would certainly make us better this season...
but it leave us in a bad place when Gordon starts getting overpaid next season.
I agree
I think Gordon’s a tad overrated. He’d be a revelation compared to what they have, but I don’t know. Like you said, I’d be nervous about his next contract.
Just my opinion, but if they trade Williams, I’d prefer it be for a 5 or a versatile wing with size. Batum (ideal), Iggy (not happening), Kawhi Leonard, trading back into the lotto next year to take Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (not ideal). Something along those lines. I just think that type of player is more valuable than a scoring combo guard. If they found a way to nab someone like that, the degree of difficulty to land an off-guard who can work within the offense -playing between a jack-of-all-trades-type wing and the unicorn-shouldn’t be THAT steep, nor should it need to be that expensive. But who knows?
Batum seems to make a lot of sense...
I just can’t figure out what we can offer Portland to make it work. D-Will really doesn’t make any sense on their roster, and none of our other “assets” have nearly enough value.
I was really into the idea of grabbing Dudley and Gortat from the Suns, but the rise of Markief again makes D-Will a poor asset.
It is really hard to find a good trade, because we have so little to offer. The only useful chip we have when trading to smart teams is D-Will. I am praying we can trick a “not-smart” team into overvaluing Beasley or Wes. That is the best I can see happening.
Does it seem pretty likely that Batum won't get extended before the 25th?
That’s what it sounds like from what I’ve read, and if that happens he can be an RFA target.
by Madison Dan on Jan 17, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
yes. And yes.
everything you have said is consistent with what I have heard and believe.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yup.
Another obstacle is playoff contenders don’t typically trade key rotation guys mid-season barring remarkably odd, Carmelo-esque circumstances. This is why I think Iggy (if they ever even had interest in him, and they reportedly didn’t, at least back in the Kahnbis days) isn’t happening. Makes no sense to trade a key player for a typical rookie at this point if you’re a team like Philly.
My hope is they let guys like Beasley and Wes walk or go for pocket lint, clear as much space as they can, and then use DThrill, space, and the MEM/UTA picks (aka deferred salary for teams worried about that!) for an aggressive offseason where they finally move beyond “asset”-hoarding mode.
But time will tell. I suppose until we know for sure what’s going on with Love all this other stuff is probably on the back burner.
Trying to conjure up a trade here....
any takers on Derrick Williams for Javale Mcgee? It makes quite a bit of sense for us, and at least a little for the Wiz.
We get a really nice front-court complement to Love on a cheap contract for this and next season. If McGee progresses, he can become our 3rd long-term piece, if not, he gives us very good production at a great price for two seasons. Washington has a lot of money committed to Blatche at C, and have Turiaff to help out for now. A core of Wall/Vesely/Williams must be somewhat appealing. Lord knows they could use a culture change over there, and Williams seems like a good kid. Booker’s success is the only thing I see holding that deal up on their end.
Not straight up
I think we “loose” in that trade straight up.
I’ve been trying to think of a trade where we wind up w McGee w/o trading Williams…It’s tough and it depends what the Wizards want to do with their franchise.
If we could get something along with McGee I’d be interested, problem is there is nothing else on their roster I’m overly enamored with outside of their 2012 draft pick
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
the guy that intrigues me is Pau Gasol
if we could get into the draft in 2012 to get one of my guys, I would very strongly look at a Williams/Ridnour for Gasol trade.
Gasol will be an elite center for at least 4 more years, and then probably have 3 years after where he will still be reasonably solid
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Williams and Ridnour leave you about $9 million short of making the salaries work.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
We got Mr. Beas and Ramrod to help out
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Legacy teams...
like the Lakers, Celtics, and Knicks rarely go for “potential” guys. They don’t need to. I don’t think we are getting Pau unless it is primarily a salary dump to facilitate Howard. That said… I would love to take-on the tail-end of Pau’s career.
McGee...
is a legit rim-protecting young center who had a 0.164 wp48 last season and is something like 0.175 so far this season. He is not bad value for Williams at all. Honestly the only reason I think they consider it is that they clearly need to shake things up.
what exactly are we loosing?
Lob city? A Defensive dynamo? a TWolves dynasty?
I love McGees defense
Not sure about his offense, I really haven’t watched him.
I think for career
Williams will be the better basketball player than McGee
But maybe McGee fills a need more, and you take the loss. What do I know?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I agree with this
but the comment you replied to was pointing out that you used the verb “loose” instead of “lose”. Compare the sentences:
I will lose this bet.
I will loose this bet.
Ha
I’m the Voodoo Magician, not the Voodoo Grammaratician
actually I was going to school to be an English teacher for awhile….should probably do a better job with it, but fitting in comments while I’m working sometimes my mind just farts
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He's a RFA at the end of the year so probably not.
Also Adelman likes players who make good decisions. I don’t know if McGee would qualify. That said my girls would love it as they think his cinnamon eating was hilarious. Sadly they don’t know any about basketball yet.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
ahhh...
I missed that he has a QO next season. I still like the deal, but that makes it less exciting. He is going to get paid pretty well.
Washington also has almost no salary commitments so I bet he's there longer than Flip.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Why don't we deal Williams for Gordon
amnesty Darko and dump the hell out of Pek/Johnson
and sign McGee/Love/Gordon to 5 year deals and make a run at this thing. Keep Martell around, draft the hell out of the end of the draft and win us a crown
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Because it's not feasible.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
which part?
if we can trade for Gordon it’s all feasable.
We have Rubio locked up for 4 years, and we can go over the cap to keep guys on our roster, so we’d really only have the tail end of those contracts to worry about cap space…and we could still even make it work or deal McGee or EG for something else
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Explain to me how we get Gordon. Then explain to me how we get McGee.
Gordon is the Hornets best prospect if not player. They aren’t giving him away. They aren’t taking our bad contracts to give up their best prospect.
McGee is the Wizards second best player. They aren’t giving him away. They definitely aren’t taking bad contracts in a deal giving up their second best player.
We still have to pay Kevin Love next year. If we acquired Gordon we’d have to pay him next year. Love’s contract will likely reduce our cap-space by $9 plus million over what we are paying him this year. Gordon’s deal would be likely be very large as well. McGee is an actual 5. Kwame Brown received $7 million this year. DeAndre Jordan is making a bit over $10 million this year. McGee will not be cheap.
There is no plausible way we acquire Gordan, keep Rubio, re-sign Love and have the cap space to outbid Washington on McGee. Or vice versa with outbidding New Orleans for Gordon.
So in order to get Rubio, Gordon, Love and McGee we’d only need to pry the best or second best player away from two rebuilding teams as the same time and then pay out the nose once they hit RFA.
It’s not feasible. It’s like saying maybe Dwight Howard will come to Minnesota and sign as a free agent if we can just clear enough cap space. It’s foolish.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
EG isn't insane
The Hornets aren’t really in a position to pay anybody big bucks.
by TO12 on Jan 17, 2012 9:26 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
They have a $10 million dollar center dropping off the books next year.
They can stay pretty salary neutral by offering EG his current salary plus $8-10 million a year.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
That's Kaman right?
because if it were Okafur I would be quite excited.
Yep. Okafur is under contract next year with an early term option for the following yet.
It’s hard to imagine he’d execute it given what he’ll be paid.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
This is why signing Bogans makes sense
or dealing junk for Mayo which it sounds like Memphis isn’t willing to do. You can then (theoretically) deal Williams for McGee and if Martell pans out we have a balanced roster, if not we live with the combination of Beas/Martel/Johnson/Tolliver there. Now of course that leaves us paying roughly $11mil/year to McGee, $15 to Love (whatever the max is) and we hope to win while Rubio is on his rookie contract. As an aside, if he weren’t injured I would welcome Brown on this team.
I would be interested in
getting Singleton in this deal too.
I realize he is raw as hell and kind of been sucking as a rookie, but he is crazy defensive upside at the 3
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 18, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
McGee is a RFA
There is a price that makes him not worth it (especially if the Wizards get the top pick with Drummond)
If you can trade for Gordon (like I said) the entire thing is feasible) I don’t know what EG’s contract situation is. Why would he resign with the Hornets? IDK, maybe he does maybe he doesn’t…what do I know, maybe the Hornets know this and would be willing to take Williams for him to get something.
McGee strikes me as a money guy. You pay him the most and he plays for you. That is absolutely possible
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 18, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
I think the point...
is that there isn’t enough money.
Love will be 16mil… Gordon will be at least 12mil… McGee will probably be close to 10mil and we have other players under contract, and a ton of positions to fill.
Where there is a will there is a way in the NBA
But yes, that complicates things some
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 18, 2012 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
It's not feasible.
I won’t pretend to be a great basketball mind, but I pay a lot of attention to salary cap and CBA issues.
Love/Gordon/McGee/Rubio is not feasible. Neither the Wizards or the Hornets are giving them away. Both can and should likely match in RFA. We don’t have enough assets to get both in trades. We can’t likely clear enough cap space to sign both and retain Ricky and Kevin. Even if we somehow did we’d have to make offers toxic enough that both New Orleans and Washington don’t match.
There isn’t always a way.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
vj110 brought him up
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No. I mean how did your Wolves team get him?
If you traded Williams for Gordon, what asset did you use to get McGee?
Because its very likely Love will be extended before the 25th, and we’d likely want to have Gordon agree to an extension as part of his trade, so cap space is unlikely.
Derrick Williams
hopefully throwing in an $4-5 mil asset as well like Johnson, Beasley, Darko or Pek but I doubt that happens.
Even "the mountain" (Pek) isn't big enough to trade to two teams at once.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 18, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
RFA was what I was "picturing"
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 18, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
That’s not bad. There’s something about McGee that sort of bugs me; not sure what it is. But that’s irrelevant. He’d make them a better team, for sure.
How about this: Williams to NOLA, Gordon to IND, Paul George to MIN? MIN maybe would need to take on a bad contract from NOLA to get them to bite, but given someone like Ariza is probably an immediate upgrade, anyway, not much harm.
Why NOLA might think about it: Gordon’s oft-injured, and there’s scuttlebutt with him and INDY, anyway, given Gordon’s a proud Hoosier and INDY’s clearing space. Williams has more yers of cost control. And if MIN would take on a bigger contract, Team Stern might perk their ears.
Why NOLA probably passes: There aren’t really any alpha-dog guards projected near the top of next year’s draft. With two picks, it’ll probably easier to find a PF than another Gordon.
Why INDY might listen: They get their local hero to come in and run with a promising team.
Why INDY probably passes: If I’m INDY and I’m going to chase Gordon, I’m probably going to try to move Granger, instead.
Bah! (Crumples digitial paper; misses digital waste basket…)
INDY likes the guys they have and NOLA isn't going to improve us this year.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Take back Okafor
They’ve been trying to ditch his salary since the day they signed the contract. Kill two birds with one stone and take him back. He comes off the books before we have to start paying Rubio.
Beasley, Williams, & Miller (or Webster) for Gordon and Okafor. They get the #2 pick in the previous draft (and honestly if he starts on that team at PF he’ll average 15 and 8 at least this year), and can get out of Beasley and Miller’s money at the end of the year. We take on a bunch of money but get solutions at our two biggest need positions and are a lock for the playoffs next year.
But since they hold our draft pick...
I’m thinking that the Hornets should have zero interests in helping the wolves get better this year so as to maximize the value of the pick of ours that they own. So I think in the best of circumstances, any deal for Gordon wouldn’t get done till after the season.
by TimberDanno on Jan 17, 2012 11:10 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe, if they were an actual team
They probably just care about dumping salary and getting rid of contracts. Such a mess.
Salaries...
In theory, this would be a solid move for the Wolves. However, unless Gordon would agree to signing an extension with Minnesota prior to making the deal, I’m not sure it’s worth renting an injured Gordon for the price of the second pick in the (albeit weak) draft.
Moreover, even if Gordon were to sign an extension with Minnesota, we couldn’t give him the franchise designation (that’s going to Love). I’m not sure it’d be possible to pay both Love and Gordon and have enough left for Rubio’s inevitable max contract.
-Bryce
Rubio doesn't have an inevitable max contract.
He’s had a good start to his rookie year…
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Not inevitable the way K Love's max is
But if I’m putting money down, ya, Rubio is getting a max contract after this one is up.
He is really...
really good. I wouldn’t be surprised if he becomes a max-contract quality player. However, I am hoping his limited scoring will keep his price-tag down a little bit.
He was really close to a triple double last night
and that was one of his worse games. I bet he gets the max.
I think you should go after Mcgee
Hes not getting along with the coach in washington, and he would give you a great presence down low. and I think if he continues to have issues with the coach washington would be willing to take the young talent.
Do you think McGee is worth Williams
That’s the bit I can’t get a handle on.. The Wizards are one team I simply don’t pay attention to outside of Sportscenter and when the Wolves are playing them so other than seeing some monstrous blocks I don’t know a ton about him. The stats look good but scuttlebut has been that he’s (another) headcase. Does he play good help defense when unable to block? it appears that he rebounds decently and scores efficiently. My inclination is that he’s a productive center and we should trade for him but he might be expiring after this year so I would first try to offer a lesser package before offering Williams.
i haven't watched to much of him either
and yeah ive heard that basically he can be a bit immature. But his center abilities are evident. He has ability, and is a defensive and rebounding force, which is something the wolves are missing. Hes no more of a head case though then cousins. and hes fairly young too. I also think Washington would be interested in this. They are going no where right now, and they have a coach and a player that don’t get along (probably more because they are 1-10 than anything).
Hmm I like the idea in principal but I feel like we need just a little more out of it
either a salary dump (Johnson, Darko, Pek, Beas), a top 10 protected draft pick or make this a 3 way trade with Memphis and get us Mayo by sending Washington’s second round pick + Singleton to Memphis to provide frontcourt depth after losing Randolph.
your asking for more then what Dwill is worth right now
Right now around the league Mcgee is looked at as the better player than Dwill.
McGee assuredly is the better player right now
People just tend to overvalue draft picks and sometimes players because they were the number 2 pick, myself included. Potential Potential Potential.
Absolutely.
Once a guy steps on the court, where he was drafted should no longer be a consideration.
Like right now, I’d trade the #2 pick in the 2011 draft for the #25 pick in said draft.
If we have a choice between McGee and Gordon
Gordon is the one to go with.
I was interested in McGee in the summer when the rumor was #2 for McGee/#6 but straight up I don’t love it.
If we could do a deal like Williams+ a 2014 unprotected, and the Utah pick for McGee/Washington’s pick I’d be interested. Or some way to conjure up one other valuable asset for the deal…I just don’t know if Williams=McGee straight is an excellent move. I think it would help, and hell….it would help get our best players on the floor together…but I think long-term Wash would look pretty nice with Thrill and Wall
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Teams don't deal unprotected picks very often.
I a team like the Wizards definitely isn’t giving up unprotected picks when stinking up the cellar in the East.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Jan 17, 2012 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I realize I use a lot of hyperbole
but I try to qualify everything at least with things like “OR some way to conjure up another valuable asset for the deal”
Unprotected pick would be the dream, but if there were another asset they had or if we sent them a slew of picks (like Utah and Memphis and our 2014 unprotected pick) I would be interested.
I was mainly trying to point out that in the deal I would hope to acquire another asset out of it.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 18, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions

by 
















