"As of now, mashing up Jaric & Al Jeff trade, #twolves drop 9 spots in '12 draft. (12th/21st, if no lottery move-up). Surprisingly unawful."
4 months ago
feral
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We shall call it "9-slots-worse-geddon" if that should occur.
"Opinion ...a confession."
by feral on Jan 17, 2012 8:44 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
that has a sexy ring to it
If that exact scenario does indeed occur, I think palindromageddon should be in the voting.
As well as, still-geddon-some. :)
Reason is the first victim of strong emotion.
Well, except we'll be lucky
If the Wolves even get the pick. I speculated in my fanpost on this subject yesterday that Utah still looks to be the odd team out. They have to hold off Dallas, Memphis, or Portland, and that’s unlikely, I think. Possible, I suppose, but the 2012 line of demarcation is pretty clear, barring injury. Same with the East, if you assume Boston will right itself. Basically, the 16 playoff teams, in my mind, are pretty much set. I hope Utah crawls in there somehow, but I’m not yet optimistic.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
They beat the Paul-less Clippers by 22 tonight
Their young guys are playing well right now. Actually, they seem to be playing well as a team right now.
Can Memphis stay relevant without CraZRandolph for a few more…months? Can Portland be consistent and not get bit by the injury bug that seems to plague their bigs? it’s a lot of games in a short period of time. Anything can happen, which is why they play the games. Your speculation is just as valid as everyone else’s. It will be fun to watch and see what happens!
Reason is the first victim of strong emotion.
It's early in a likely flukey season, but they have some players.
Jefferson has always been flawed, but good.
Millsap is a really good player.
Harris isn’t turrible and was considered pretty good before the huge influx of PG talent hit the league.
Hayward’s been decent.
Kanter, Favors and Burks have all played pretty well.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I was just reading that Al is now one of the better post defenders in the L
what? I mean, good for him, but what?
by aarendsvark on Jan 18, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Does "the L" stand for something different than what I think it stands for?
"Opinion ...a confession."
by feral on Jan 18, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I use it as a shorter version of "league"
especially when I think my title’s are running long. Is there some other abbreviation? I suppose it doesn’t take much more time to type “nba”
Yes, I know. I'm just saying.... Maybe it was something like "Loo."
We all watched Al Jefferson, right?
"Opinion ...a confession."
"Loo"
is much more plausible.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 18, 2012 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
utah currently
has the #2 spot
it IS early, but they don’t really look like the odd team out right now
They also gotta worry about....
The T-WOLVES! “Objects in the mirror, seem closer than they appear!!!!!!!”
by Timberpubs on Jan 18, 2012 9:48 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jazz fan here...
The Jazz have been lucky to have had a lot of home games (later they will probably pay for this to some extent) & games against teams missing a player or 2 (Al, Favors & Howard have all missed games for the Jazz, so it seems fair enough to me), but overall have palyed a top 10 SOS in the league so far, based on W/Ls, and have a 9-4 record to show for it.
The 1st 4 games were pretty brutal @LAL, @DEN (B2B), PHI & @SAS (B2B) (1-3 with 3 blowout losses, & a double-digit comeback W against PHI; blowouts aside, how many teams would do better than 1-3 facing that lineup, especially as a young team learning a new defensive system?), since then the team has gone 8-1 with the only loss being in OT against LAL & that was very winnable (Gasol hit an improbable 3 to seal it for the cursed Lakers).
The defense has improved all year, Big Al actually passes out of double teams fairly regularly now so the offense looks more like Sloan’s flex than it did last year, Millsap is playing out of his mind (but every year he gets better), & the Jazz have as much/more depth than any other team in the league.
All that being said, I’m not entirely convinced that Memphis (if they can treadwater until Z-bo returns) & even Houston (despite having Flynn on their roster) cannot pass up the Jazz later in the year.
I think most Jazz fans were hoping for a quick rebuilding process, but figured that this year’s lottery pick + this year’s Warriors lottery pick would be needed before we turned things around after the disaster that was the 2nd half of last season.
At this point most of us are now hoping to make the playoffs, get winning basketball experinece for the youngsters (Favors, Hayward, Kanter, Burks & Evans) & just add on the Warriors pick for next year as a bonus prize.
by Waxmaster on Jan 18, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Last year there was a rumor that the Jazz were going to...
trade Bell for Flynn, thankfully the Jazz FO realized Raja contributing basically nothing was > than Flynn
by Waxmaster on Jan 18, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ouch. It's painful, but oh so true.
Don’t worry, though, we would have been trading for Raja Bell about five or six years ago anyway. Apparently that was the last time the Wolves’ front office noticed him.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Awesome you stopped by.
Hey, shout out to original T-Wolf Tyrone Corbin, too! Good guy.
We look forward to six or seven true power forwards being on the court at the same time when our rosters match up.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I lurk on CH off & on...
and throw my 2 cents worth in if anything Jazz related comes up. CH is always entertaining, especially the Tim Allen preview stuff. Also the Wolves are a fun team to follow this year with Rubio being as good as advertised, Love being in terrific shape & Adelman on the sidelines. With/without the Jazz pick this summer, your team’s future is looking pretty good.
For what it is worth, the Jazz have cut down to JUST 5 power forwards from 7 (AK47 decided to stay in Russia & Okur was traded to the Nets to save money & free up PT for Favors & Kanter).
Yeah, you're really thinning out the crop at the four.
Us, we’ve been essentially without any legitimate wings for running on three seasons now, but at PF it’s still a bumper crop!
"Opinion ...a confession."
After watching
most of last night’s Jazz-Clippers game, I was pretty impressed with the Jazz. I think they have something going with that Swat Lake City interior defense. Kanter is going to be a factor in this league where there aren’t too many true centers.
Nice coaching job by Ty Corbin… they are playing well together. Definitely a playoff team.
by Stabby Stabby on Jan 18, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
This might be relevant if....
The league-owned Hornets who just lost Chris Paul didn’t have possession of said pick. As long as the Wolves don’t make the playoffs, that pick is going to end up #1.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 17, 2012 9:42 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I totally agree. I try to explain this to my friends who are casual basketball fans. As long as the pick has a even the smallest margin to actually be a #1 pick. It will be #1.
"This town, this night, this crowd
Come on put them up, let me hear it loud"
by Stay classy, Joe. on Jan 17, 2012 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
When you explain it to them
Do you use math or a magic eight ball? I kid. But seriously.
by hipity on Jan 17, 2012 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
they'll explain it using
basketball reasons
by mr. eggplant on Jan 19, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
I don't expect the league to so blantantly give the Hornets the #1 pick
The pick will be a more subtle 2nd or 3rd instead
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 17, 2012 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe so.
If Andre Drummond and Anthony Davis both come out, it will be a two player draft. Giving them #2 won’t be bad at all. Not like kissing us off with Derrick Williams instead of Kyrie Irving.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 18, 2012 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
Wish we woulda got Irving
screwed again. T-Wolves have to make their own luck (trading for Love, trading for the pick that become Ricky) or they get NONE at all.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
Hmm
I don’t really know how much Irving helps us right now. Obviously Williams wasn’t a pressing need either, but I dont think it’s a big deal either way.
If we can play Ridnour + Rubio
We could certainly play Rubio + Irving. Also Irving spent a fair amount of time playing off the ball at Duke post-injury.
We could do it
Just not something that I’m wistfully looking back on.
I look unwistfully back on how we never seem to land at the right spot in the right draft
Pick #2 is great in some drafts, but not in 2011. That is par for the course in my “lottery is fixed” hypothesis. Stern, if he does let us move up, has twice given us #3 in a 2 player draft, and now he gave us #2 in a 1 player draft. If he ever gives us #1 (hopefully we won’t be in that position barring a trade for a while), it will probably be the year that he moves up the age requirement and all the good players are stuck in college/Europe. Our organization has made plenty of mistakes, but also never caught many breaks.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 18, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
That's ignoring trade value
Of which Kyrie has much more than D-Will.
by stuntmonkeys on Jan 18, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kyrie and Rubio would be NUTS together
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 18, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Not only that, but we might have been more inclined to throw Barea's money somewhere else
..(not that i mind having him)… say, towards Jamal Crawford or Chuck Wagon…?
For all the insanity that Wolves lineups seem destined to be
see: Billups and Brandon, T-Hud 2 guard, Sam Mitchell center, Gary Trent etc.
Irving and Rubio could legitimately work as a 2 guard lineup. they are both big pg’s and both very competent defenders and slashers, Irving can shoot well.
That’s a backcourt David Kahn. That’s what a big time backcourt would look like
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 18, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
We'll never know...
if Kahn would’ve put Rubio and Irving together. My guess is yes, even he would not have messed that up. He was a little miffed when he gave his infamous post-lottery speech. How much he was upset at being pick 2 instead of 1, or how much he was upset that Cleveland got #1 is the question.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 18, 2012 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
did he get fined for that one?
That seemed like a major blunder that somehow slid under the radar of a media that loves to riff on anything Kahn says.
I don't believe so...
In a normal situation, I think Kahn would’ve been fined heavily for that one. However, the lockout began just days after the draft and I think that distracted the powers that be (Stern). I don’t know what else to chalk it up to.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 19, 2012 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
Assuming they are playing as they are now
Who is to say that Kyrie wouldn’t be getting a lot less minutes on the Wolves (like DWill) and not be looking so hot? I’m sure Williams on the Cavs would get tons of minutes and look like a stud.
So no, it’s not ignoring trade value.
You're right, Randy Foye would look as good as Brandon Roy, if only he had the same leash.
’Scuse me. Think I hit “replay” on the DVR, there.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Except in that it simply pointed out that we *always* indulge in these rationalizations.
We made the exact same argument, with different names, back when Foye was a rookie. Every team’s fans does this when their rookie isn’t getting time on the floor.
We indulged in that one for two whole years with Randy Foye, and it was especially pronounced his rookie year. Roy was blowing up in Portland, but Wolves fans spent the whole year saying to themselves that Foye just happened to be on a potential contender, so he didn’t have the same freedom.
"Opinion ...a confession."
It does take years to see how it shakes out
Favors was looking like a dud last year, and suddenly is putting it together.
He wasn't/isn't playing a ton of minutes...
He only averages 28mpg and for the most part has been splitting pg minutes with Sessions, he’s only had three games this year in which he has played over 30 minutes outside of his first game he’s been very efficient so far this season.
I'm just as interested
in how Wall/Rubio would have worked. The shooting would be awful, but they’d be fun to watch. Plus, Wall over Johnson would be much better than Irving over Williams. Either way, it would be nice to not have to speak in wistful hypothetical terms when talking about our draft history, though.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
meanwhile elsewhere...
Orlando gets O’Neal and Howard
San Antonio gets Robinson and Duncan
Cleveland gets Irving and James
Did I miss any double winners? Even if the lottery isn’t rigged, it is obviously broken.
who is this Dave Brauer guy?
and why is he getting a lot of pimpin for his Wolves tweets?
I’m just curious, is he someone big time? a CH guy?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
nice, is he good?
never heard of him before a few days back
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 17, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
He also used to have a KFAN show.....
…..and he is a very good media critic. Highly recommended. (And yes, he has said nice things about the site.)
Would anyone be interested in
Devin Harris salary dump+Utah dropping the lotto protection on the pick for Luke Ridnour type deal?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
how big is Devin Harris'
contract and for how long?
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 17, 2012 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
9.3m this year, 8.5m next
Why is Utah salary dumping him when he’s an expiring next year? AND removing protection? No way.
Harris has gotten off to a slow start
But ‘10/’11 Devin Harris and ‘10/’11 Luke Ridnour were pretty similar in terms of total production. Luke shoots better, Harris passes better and plays slightly better D.
I do not understand what this means.
There are too many numbers, hashtags, and other detritus. Can someone explain please?
New Orleans gets the Wolves’ first round draft pick – right now, that pick is #12 in the lottery.
Minnesota gets the Jazz’ first round draft pick – right now, that pick is #21.
The end product of the Jaric/Jefferson trades, if the draft were today, would be a 9 selection drop in the NBA draft. In comparison to what we were thinking (CLIPPERGEDDON), this is not that bad.
Jazz pick is also lottery protected, so they have to make the playoffs.
by atlastata on Jan 17, 2012 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Or, thought of another way
It’s like some clueless pair of fools traded
- a potentially high first round pick in a deep draft +
- the only player of consequence obtained by trading away HOFer Garnett
for
- a late first rounder
- a small bag of magic beans
Well done, McHale and Kahn. Raises and promotions all around.
Sorry – Brauer makes an interesting observation, but it is hard to ignore the amount of vast amount of gold those two knobs threw away.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 17, 2012 11:40 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Don't forget
We also got the Johnny Flynn pick back in the KG trade. So please apologize to McHale/Kahn for that coup.
The Jonny Flynn pick didn’t come from the Celtics. The pick dealt to the Celtics in the Wally/Ricky trade hasn’t been conveyed yet because it isn’t eligible to be conveyed until two years after we give our first rounder to the Clipper (now Hornets). That pick that would have gone to the Celtics if we hadn’t gotten it back in the KG trade would have fallen to a 2nd rounder because of the 7-year rule.
Well yes and no
The pick we got from Boston for KG was used on Flynn. As all the protections placed on the pick when traded to Boston (in the original trade) were removed when it was returned to us.
However if we didn’t recover this pick, we would have still had the Flynn pick but would have also owed Boston a pick 2 years after Clipper/Hornet/9-Slots Worse-Geddon.
This isn't entirely correct either...
There were restrictions on the Boston pick from the Wally/Ricky Davis deal originally so that if it wasn’t conveyed by 2013 it would have become a 2nd rounder. So…since we’re just getting ready to convey the LAC pick this year, we would have been giving Boston a 2nd rounder in 2013. That 2013 2nd round pick would have been the pick we got back for KG.
To say that the pick we got back for KG was used on Flynn isn’t accurate at all. With the Clippers having first dibs on any traded pick at that point, to say that Flynn and Boston were related at all isn’t really close.
Basketball-reference.com differs with you
July 31, 2007: Traded by the Minnesota Timberwolves to the Boston Celtics for Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 1st round draft pick (Wayne Ellington) and a 2009 1st round draft pick (Jonny Flynn).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html
If you tell yourself we need Marko Jaric to make the Kevin Love Trade
you can feel a little bit better. So we only traded OJ Mayo and our 2012 pick for All-Star Kevin Love and Mike Miller. Mike Miller we flipped into Ricky Rubio. So actually this trade was a master stroke.
If this trade hadn’t been made our startinback-courtrt would be 43 year-old Sam Cassell and malcontent OJ Mayo and Beasley would be our starting Power Forward.
by xraraavis on Jan 18, 2012 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
ieSpell sucks
that should be “starting back-court”
That's why I find it hard to look back on past moves and 'reminisce,' if you will
It’s really hard to say how players would have developed on a different team, in a different system. And it is hard to say what we (or any team) would have done with more or less picks, or in different drafts, etc. etc.
I mean, looking at this draft, we can definitely say that it sucks to not have our own pick. But looking back and saying, if we took him here and them there, this would be our team… just doesn’t work for me. Pretty hard to compare apples to apples in most cases.
We "needed" to unload Jaric's contract.
Unloading it was a plus on the Wolves’ side of that trade. Without that salary anchor, we might not have had the incentive to deal for Love, okay…. But it’s not quite the same thing. ;-)
"Opinion ...a confession."
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