Stop making sense
I don't know what to tell you about this one. What else is there to say about a team led my a magical Spanish Unicorn and Agape, the Oregon god of rebounding, shooting nearly 70% at the start of the 4th quarter against a rapidly aging team without its best player (lost in the 1st half with a broken bone in his hand)?
Not a whole lot.
At some point this has to come crashing back towards earth, right? Let's not think about that. Let's dance with lamps and talk about the places we must be. Here. Home.
Closed circuit to Section 121, you don't need a series of theme nights for the island of misfit toys. You do just fine with a banana, a pimp, Buzz Lightyear, and might I suggest a man in a big suit?
Random thoughts
- Here is a list of Wes Johnson's 2010/11 games. Click on the "game score" column to sort the file with the Laker game at the top. That's his best effort. He shot well and did stuff. Now look down the list. Click on the date file to put the games in chronological order. Look at the FTA column. See the 3 six game stretches with no free throw attempts? See the streaks with 5? Look, as hard as I am on the guy for not being very good at professional basketball, if he is going to "turn things around" it will have to be in a few key areas. He's not a guy who can break people down off the dribble and he's not a guy who can bank on super spot up shooting. Let's just wipe those things off the board. He is going to butter his bread by playing super hustle defense, rebounding, blocking shots, and--playing off what has amazingly been his best NBA skill--passing off the dribble. 6-6 is an ok game. He's had a few of those. What the team needs is more than 2 rebounds, 1 block and no FTAs from their long and athletic 2 guard. Did everyone catch Kawhi Leonard tonight? That's basically the role: be active, rebound, defend, don't hesitate on the open shot if you have it, don't turn it over.
- One of the best signs that Ricky Rubio is a pretty damn good point guard came in the 2nd corner when he got the ball to a wide open Wes Johnson for a corner 3 attempt. Wes couldn't pull the trigger and the ball was kicked back out to Rubio, who proceeded to set up the floor for a cross court pass back to Johnson for the open 3, which this time, he hit. At some point confidence matters, even for the so-so to bad players. It's nice to see the point guard force feed a guy that needs some confidence within the flow of the game. That's the sign of a true maestro.
- This was far and away the best game for the Wolves starters as a group. They all scored in double figures while shooting over .500. They also all played over 20 minutes, with Michael Beasley and Kevin Love making it past the 40 minute mark.
- It was also the best game, by far, for Beasley. B-easy was active on defense, hustling, keeping his head up, and, best of all, he largely eschewed the 16-23 foot jumper that his entire NBA career has been based upon. If he is going to contribute to this team, and in this offense, it will have to be by either taking another step back on those long 2s or by taking it into the lane. 10 of his 15 shots were from within 15 feet. 2 of the remaining 3 were from beyond the arc. Next up, drawing fouls. (An added bonus of his drives to the hoop are collapsing defenses and open 3s.)
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There is no crashing back to earth
I was in no way surprised we won these two games.
Nervous, but no surprised.
This is it.
Here we come.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
This game WAS the crashing back to Earth
For the past two years, we were lost in the Biangle Galaxy.
looking at the 4th quarter box-score...
…there was a “little” crashing back to Earth…. but not enough to care.
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
by LoveLovesLove on Jan 3, 2012 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
12 points in the 4th
Isn’t going to win you a lot of games…unless your shooting 70% I guess
by MrBungle85 on Jan 3, 2012 4:58 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
or unless you're #1 in the NBA in 4th quarter defense
compared to 30th last year
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Nice recap
But weren’t the Wolves 1-1 last season after winning vs Milwaukee? That was Love’s awkward handshake game I believe.
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
also
we were 1-0 to start the J. Flynn era
REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.
by uofmike on Jan 2, 2012 11:36 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
and 0-15
to end it.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
if anyone can make beas efficient, it's RA
But I gotta temper my optimism with some skepticism…more accurately, I guess I should permit a touch of RA-inspired optimism into my skepticism.
I wonder
If tonight was some of the fruit of Adelman’s conversation with Beasley about how and where to get his shots. I couldn’t watch the game, but were most of Beas’ shots in the flow of the offense or classic dribble stop iso’s?
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jan 2, 2012 11:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
He was a little better that way this game
Still some isos, but he wasn’t massaging the ball too much. He even made a couple of nice passes. Made a skip pass to Love, who missed a three, and seemed to be looking to pass the ball a little.
Beas had a number of passes batted away..
Must be tough getting used to passing and all. Nice to see the effort though.
I was impressed by Beas last night
There were 2 long 2s that I remember, a charge (acceptable in my opinion since it means he’s driving) and a lot of drive + kick and even more drive + shoot. I hesitate to say it but I think RA left Love in there too long, he looked a bit tired and was missing 3s at the end of the game (still had a 4th quarter block though).
He's afraid Adelman will sit him again
if he doesn’t play the right way. No more “ball stops here” offense. It’s amazing to see the effect RA has on a team after just a few games.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
He just coaches the right way
No games or gimmicks, no false motivation. Play right and he’ll let you make mistakes and let you learn.
Let's see about that
With AR’s DNP-CD last night.
For those wondering, Beas is also finally into positive WS/48 after last night.
Lastly – do we need to worry about giving Love too many minutes? Dude is playing a ton. Here’s hoping for some blowout wins so he can rest in the 4th.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jan 3, 2012 10:35 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
He'll be the SF by the end of the year
He’s gotta be burning 4,000 calories a night
then we don’t have to worry about trading Williams
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 3, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Love was gassed at the end of the game.
His shot was falling like an armored car going over the side of a bridge.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know why AR sat
I thought he played great against the Heat, scoring 14 points and registering a +18, and Love could have used a breather.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
AR was atrocious
In his final minutes against Dallas. A boneheaded technical. A bad turnover, and a couple terrible-decision shots, as I recall. It was bad enough to warrant a one-game DNP-CD punishment.
by stuntmonkeys on Jan 3, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Really that's always been true of Beasley.
The guy has great hands, he just isn’t disciplined enough to know when to try the pass. Lots and lots of turnovers last year started from that basic combination; a little soft exchange from Beasley would get broken up by the opponent.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Last night
He seemed to have trouble gripping the ball (a few times the ball just slipped away from him) – which I can understand with the index and middle fingers on his dominant hand taped together. I am amazed he shot as well as he did, but I wonder if the tape job is the reason for his lack of long twos.
by stuntmonkeys on Jan 3, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
There are many NBA players who could benefit from these artificial reminders.
Gerald Glass had a huge game for us wearing goggles. Never wore them again. Should have.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Repeat of a tweet
If Kevin Love had stayed for all 4 years of college like Tim Duncan did, he would now be a rookie.
People tend to forget these things when examining a player’s development.
A 19-year old struggles in the first half of his rookie year, and he’s already a bust.
How old was Bird when he came in the league?
22? 23?
I know he was good right away, but it probably wasn’t high above what Love is doing right now.
Not comparing Love to Bird.
But, I do think the Duncan comparison is interesting as far as age and development.
Love is probably still a couple of years away from hitting his peak.
The dismissiveness of the Spurs announcers to the MVP chants will end.
He may never win an MVP, but he is going to be in the conversation.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
by HumdingerTV on Jan 2, 2012 11:12 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
He will win MVP
It is impossible to get too geeked. One of the reasons why I’m so quick to the trigger about getting a competent wing player is because I’m pretty certain they have a historical anomaly. They have the Black Swan. I wrote a post about him being a KG level guy but you nailed his comp. I won’t compare those two either because I grew up on the Celtics, but…yeah. This is as close as it gets beyond Dirk. He’s a stupid good basketball player.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 2, 2012 11:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He had some Dirk-esque moves against Dallas.
The front foot fade away (or something close to it), an up and under, and something about his pose in the post..
25/15!!!
Seriously people, what else do you need to see?
What? He shoots 40% on 3? OK, I give up.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 2, 2012 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
he also had 3 steals and 2 blocks!
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on Jan 3, 2012 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
Good point.
I like to look at turnovers minus (steals + blocks) … sort of a “net turnovers” calculation. Not as accurate as TO%, but whatever. Love had 6 TOs tonight, but 5 steals/blocks — so only 1 net turnover. Can’t ask for much more.
I was thinking today
about what a usage percentage stat would look like if it included offensive rebounds and steals and used a “net possessions” type of divisor. So I’d even add Love’s OREB’s because they add possessions as well.
I was sold last year, but my jaw dropped when I saw him on the three point line, take a big step to begin a drive that he stopped before picking up his pivot foot, pulled himself back behind the line (which usually precedes an off-balance shot) and nailed the trey.
That was NOT a jab-step, step-back move. It was way different. And he made it look effortless. Sure he was in the zone, but that’s the kind of play that the great ones make — they do what everyone else is coached NOT to do. But they’re so good that the regular rules don’t apply to them. (i.e. It’s not a bad habit if the shot drops regularly.)
I’m 100% sold on Love. I only wish that he played for S.A.
small ball will at least be bigger overall. - grego21
Pounding the Rock
One theory is
he’s gaining wisdom from Jack Sikma, who’s now on the Wolves’ bench. Apparently, Sikma used a step-back move quite well.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
I'm fine with that theory
My point is more that he’s reaching that level where even the non-traditional things he does on the fly are working for him. When you can freelance and make it look rehearsed, THAT is the one of the marks of a star to me.
small ball will at least be bigger overall. - grego21
Pounding the Rock
Isn't that still a result of practice anyhow?
It probably looks so effortless precisely because he’s been working on taking shots like that. It still takes a lot of talent to improvise like that, but the practice is what likely made that shot even possible.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
The better defense really helps his case
I think he’s going to stop being viewed as a negative on D, and instead be somebody who can guard 4s and 5s.
I’m pretty sure his assists are up this year as well.
Like TO12 says below, he probably needs a 55+ win season to get it (because sportswriters are stupid) but that’s not looking out of the question.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
Screw defense
The 1st Love question should and always will be “ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!”
What else do people want? He can’t control for his teammates; he’s not a facilitator; he’s just a badass who rebounds, gets to the line and hits 3s at unprecedented rates for a human of his size.
seriously people, wtf?!
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 2, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Uh... are you upset?
We’re not speculating about how awesome he is.
We’re speculating about him entering the conversation, which is to say, catching the attention of idiots.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
Not upset
Just sign the dude to the max and get him a wing player. That’s all I ask. Yes, he came into the league pudgy and white. It’s funny. He’s an NBA Kung Fu panda. Whatever. Right now, he’s a dragon master. Get him help. Quickly. This could be quite the run.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 2, 2012 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I was dead wrong.
Give Love lots and lots of money and keep him here.
by saudagg on Jan 2, 2012 11:37 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
He's stupid good
Agreed, please sign and focus on finding him running mates. We’ve been gifted KG pt. 2.
You mean
KG 3.0?
I think hes much more effective and plays smarter than KG in my opinion
Careful there...
I think we should all remember just how damned good KG was. He was DPOY good, and was versatile enough to even run the point when needed. Along with everything else.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 2, 2012 11:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's the D that sets him apart
He’s a surefire HOF player that averaged 20-10-5 while playing some of the best defense the league has ever seen. Love is an absurdly efficient player that uses and creates possessions better than almost anyone in the league, but KG’s defense still puts him on another level in my eyes. It’s hard to overstate how good KG’s D was.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
by nja700 on Jan 2, 2012 11:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is where player comparisons start to suck
Love is better at some aspects of O, Garnett was a better distributor and ball handler. Love is a better rebounder, but Garnett was the best rebounder at his time too. KG was better in every aspect of D than Love, but Love is 23, newly thin, and improving.
I just want to love them equally.
KG's help
meaning Allen, Pierce, Rondo and Perkins? Or the help he had while he was here? Because only one of those will get us a title…
Garnett's help
Garnett was blessed almost his entire MN career with great PG play (Marbury/Brandon/Cassell). The team collapsed when we leaned on Marcus Banks and Marko Jaric to run our team. I think the growth of Love and Rubio alone could bring us to be mildly competitive for years. If we could add a Wally/Sprewell level talent at a wing, we’d be a top 4 team in the west for a decade. From there, operation get lucky in the playoffs commences.
Garnett played 927 regular season games with the Wolves. Marbury, Brandon, and Cassell played a combined 509.
The team collapsed when Garnett finally started breaking down.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 3, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
Why should MN care
about something that happened in Boston?
The year after our playoff run KG led the league in PER, Win Shares, rebounding, and rebounding percentage while providing top 5 individual defense. We went 44-38 because Sam Cassell broke down and the rest of the team was a bunch of role players (including old Sprewell).
The next year KG finished 5th in the league in PER. He led the league in rebounding while providing top 5 individual defense. We sucked because we relied on the likes of Marcus Banks and Mark Blount to play big minutes for us. Ricky Davis also thought it was a good idea for him to have more shot attempts per game than KG. That was such a bad team.
KG’s last year here he led the league in rebounding and rebounding percentage while being a top 5 defender in the league and posting a PER of 24, good for 5th in the league. We sucked because Ricky Davis was our 2nd best player, Mark Blount, Trenton Hassell, Mike James, Randy Foye, and Marko Jaric were our only other players to average 20 minutes a game.
Just because KG never willed his way to a championship in MN doesn’t mean we have the right to say anything we want about him. Saying he ever broke down with MN is utterly insane. He was a top 5 player in the league on offense and defense every year for his last 8 or 9 years here. If you want to make something up, make something up about Troy Hudson. Say he had 8 toes on his right foot and was bulimic. Make something up about Olowokandi. Say he took a fishing boat to Indonesia twice a summer to eat babies. Don’t say anything blasphemous about Garnett.
Did you entertain the idea
That he was talking about Garnett breaking down physically near the ends of seasons?
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
I didn't even think to consider it
He missed 6 games each of his last two years, and our teams were more than 6 games out of the playoffs both times. He may have been injured, but he still played and played very well. Even if that is what he’s referring to, I’d still counter (more politely) that those supporting casts were terrible enough that it didn’t matter how good KG played.
Also
your statement proves my point. The Wolves were a playoff team in every single season we got a healthy Marbury, a healthy Brandon (or Chauncey when he stepped up for an injured Brandon), or a healthy Cassell. Take away the PG’s, and we’ve made the playoffs 0 times ever. Trying to claim Garnett broke down… come on.
I'm only worrying that we won't have a repeat three-peat
The rest should come easy
Love is gooder than good
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
Danny Ferry said last night...
on the SA broadcast that Kevin Love is a “very good player” but quickly dismissed him as “not an MVP level player”.
Wasn’t Ferry a GM recently, now he’s doing color commentary?
It was fun listening to them gripe as the Wolves we’re playing well.
by MarlonMaxeyEra on Jan 3, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
NBA Kung Fu Panda is a great nickname
not really, but I like it
It would have worked before he shed the weight,
as would my favored nickname, “Love Handles.” (’Cause he had ’em, and he can pass the rock.)
"Opinion ...a confession."
It already is quite fun
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 4:07 AM CST up reply actions
Remember back when
you said trading Mayo for Love was “highway robbery?” I sure do, boy was that ever prescient. it is amazing that there was a huge debate over whether that trade was good or not.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 7:59 AM CST up reply actions
Anyone still wondering
If loves weight loss is going to effect his rebounding now?
by MrBungle85 on Jan 2, 2012 11:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm wondering
how much better it will make him. He can MOVE now.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 2, 2012 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
this
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
by LoveLovesLove on Jan 3, 2012 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
He actually had two help side blocks last night
if he can add a little rim protection to his repertoire, we are talking 1st team all NBA
Doesn't seem to have had any adverse effects thus far
The Pillsbury dough boy is no more.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 2, 2012 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing the volleyball was intentional...
…part of the development to gain quickness. Running in sand will have that effect.
Running in sand seems to help Blake Griffin
He doesn’t simply run in sand, however. He runs up sand dunes with a 60-lb weight vest on.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Kevin Love doesn't run in sand
He moves his feet, and the shoreline shifts beneath him.
by mg7505 on Jan 3, 2012 2:54 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Blake Griffin doesn't 'simply' do anything
Except jump over cars. That was pretty simple.
Anyone
who’s ever been chased by the police can tell you how easy that is.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
But
BG doesn’t have the benefit of the insane adrenaline rush. Just sayin’.
by stuntmonkeys on Jan 3, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
He didn't jump over no damn car.
He kind of jumped over the hood of a car.
That was the most embarrassing piece of propaganda I’ve ever seen put forth by the NBA. That whole thing was so unbelievably weak.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 3, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
That was the biggest joke I’ve ever seen. He did not deserve to win that.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
He just has to have
1. The offense of Dirk Nowitzki
2. The defense of Dwight Howard
3. 55 wins in a season on a team made up mostly of questionable youngsters and journeymen backups.
Oh, and if he could re-sign for a hometown discount that’d be amazing, too kthxbai.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Jan 2, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And so it begins
The SnP/Kevin Love man-crush. This might be the happiest I’ve been as a Wolves fan….ever.
www.unleashkevinlove.com
I'm not sure who you're reacting to here?
There are like two trollish posters who denigrate him. But the rest of Canis Hoopus and seemingly the basketball world is rightfully peeing their pants over how good this guy is.
and I remember
waking up after they had traded for him and being pissed we didn’t have Mayo!
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on Jan 3, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you McHale!!
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
by GWST11 on Jan 3, 2012 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I remember thinking it was a typical McHale shit draft day trade
until I found out that we dumped Antoine Walker and Marko Jaric in the deal. That absolutely reversed my mood.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
I preferred Mayo over Love at the time (stupid, I know)...
but the stuff in the trade outside of Love/Mayo seemed so lopsided in our favor I wasn’t unhappy with the trade at all…dumping Walker and Jaric (and picking up Mike Miller, which seemed like a good move at the time)
by LosAngelesTWolf on Jan 3, 2012 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
this
was exactly my feeling at the time. Perhaps the non-Mayo/Love portion of the deal showed that McHale had learned something from the Roy/Foye six of one/half a dozen of the other experience. I’ve been wondering for some time about the learning curve for GM’s and where our Mr. K stands now.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 3, 2012 1:45 AM CST up reply actions
I am entertained
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 7:56 AM CST up reply actions
He needs to do nothing more statistically
But his team has to win games, get to the playoffs, and then he has to be a playoff stud. You don’t get MVP until you do that. Period. He can… in time. But with guys like Rose, Lebron, etc. Love may never get an MVP. Who cares?
I’ll take a ring instead please.
by Rodman99 on Jan 2, 2012 11:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Nooooooooooooo!!!
You can’t control for any of this. These are not the droids you are looking for!!! He can’t choose or play well enough to “get a ring”. That requires luck. We don’t know if that will occur. What we do know….(insert Love’s stats here).
Duh
But who’s voting? The writers, that’s who.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 2, 2012 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
And when are they voting? At the end of the regular season, that's when.
Dirk won MVP and then his Mavs got trounced in the first round by the #8 seed Warriors. Maybe Rodman99’s “has to be a playoff stud” rule applies to previous playoffs? That still doesn’t work with Derrick Rose last year.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Derrick Rose was already a playoff stud
Before last years monster run. He proved himself in the bright lights in two previous playoff performances (epic series against the peak Celtics).
I’m going with history, not providing an opinion. Name an MVP who’s never been to the playoffs?
Never been? I don't know.
I know one who’d never advanced past the first round, and therefore hadn’t particularly been “a playoff stud.” Cough. Cough.
"Opinion ...a confession."
My point is I don't get excited by Love's stats
I get excited by Love winning games. WAY more fun.
by Rodman99 on Jan 2, 2012 11:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
And, amazingly..
…when he is surrounded by good production….
GET HIM A WING PLAYER!!!
(BTW: when the wolves were down with 5 seconds to go against miami, who got the ball ;))
That never happens in games
I don’t what your talking about. ;-)
by Rodman99 on Jan 2, 2012 11:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree though
The moments with Wes knocking down J’s and Beas taking it to the hole, Love and Rubio doing their thing, gave us glimpses of what this team can be (i.e. what the roles are and how this model can work). Still probably need some upgrades in personnel but as we are now, we can surprise a lot of people.
by Rodman99 on Jan 2, 2012 11:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Love can "win" a handful of games,
just like any other dominant player. One player can’t make a crappy team win a bunch of games. It’s just not possible.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 2, 2012 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
Kobe couldn't win with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown and Co.
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
Or Deron Williams...
Who was a “franchise player” and a “winner” on Utah, but then was traded to New Jersey and is now surrounded by pure awfulness. Is he now a loser?
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
It's hard to say.
the 2009-2010 Cavs won more games with James than the 2010-2011 Cavs won without him, but the Cavs only returned eight players that season from the previous one. They lost Ilgauskas, Shaq, Mo Williams, and Delonte West among others.
It’s not so easy to say the Cavs won with LeBeeeyotch and lost without him.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:23 AM CST up reply actions
Plus
I think there was some tanking for the 1st pick thrown in there as well. and moral seemed to also play a big role in that collapse. that whole team just seemed to have it’s hart ripped out by LeBron throwing them the middle finger in his Dear John letter.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 8:12 AM CST up reply actions
They didn't lose Mo Williams.
They traded him during the offseason. They also got Antawn Jamison for the whole season.
You really want to attribute a significant portion of the change to those bums? They went from 61-21 to 19-63. Give the man his due.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 3, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
I don't doubt the Lebron effect....
But when they lost Andy too I knew they were in for some putrid ball. Andy’s no stud, but it meant they went from a net positive big to Hollins.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Nobody can be compared to lebron.
Hate to say it, but he’s the best and it’s by a wide margin.
I hate to say that too
So I dont, and I ust pretend it’s not true.
They lost Anderson Verajo
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 4, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
There were also seasons before that with player turnover
But they were consistently contenders with their only serious threat being James, IIRC.
We can't compare him to he who will not be named?
Age 23 stats…one was called a legend at the end of his career. We shall see.
I had that relization during last night's game too
Love is one of the very top players in the league right now. Once we get on the correct side of .500 and/or the playoffs he will be a perrenial MVP canidate.
The media and masses have been slow (like Kurt Rambis slow) to come around on Love, but it is too painfully obvious at this point. He might have one of the (if not the) most complete games in the league, and right now the amount that he does for us each game is astounding.
Let’s hear some Love love. He seems to have been lost in all the hype of this season, but he is our man.
His own team being slow is the real disappointing thing
It’s like an economist missing the housing bubble. Those people shouldn’t still be making decisions. “Who could have predicted?” Whoever said that shouldn’t be making decisions.
Haha, it's all a joke looking back on it
I agree the ingorance is painful. But you really couldn’t have predicted K-Love turning into such a destructive basketball playing monster. This is almost unfathomable.
I feel like you could really make a case to take him over any other player in the league to start a team. You could make real strong case for probably only 4 other guys over Love, but you could make just as good of case to take Love over them too.
There is a story
my dad used to tell me, now I know this is probably one of those Myth stores but it goes like this, one of those big wig uber rich families patrons (i think it was supposed to be senior Kennedy) is getting his shoe shined in 1929 and happens to ask the shoe shine boy what the stock market is going to do, the shoe shiner responds, “why its going to go up!” Kennedy turns to his friend/advisor/stranger? and says “well if even the shoe shine guy knows the stock market is going ot go up, then maybe it is time to get out.”
while the story may be a myth, the point of it stands. when every one agrees that something is going to happen in the financial market then that means we are probably poised for it to go the opposite way. the housing bubble is similar, any trained financial person who couldn’t predict a housing collapse when the banks where falling over themselves to hand out NINJA loans shouldn’t be trusted.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You say that a lot
Who could have predicted THIS is what he meant in context.
I don’t think anyone predicted Love would be this good. Would you agree he has exceeded the expectations of even the most optimistic advocate? It’s pretty stunning really.
And he keeps getting better.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
No way
The signs have been clear for quite some time. It was clear before 31/31 when he was getting sub 30 mpg. It was clear when they thought Ryan Hollins should start over him. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to look at what he did with 25-28 mpg and think about what that would mean with more touches in 35 minutes.
Not only that, but it took the guy who couldn’t have predicted 2 f’ing years to realize that he has one of the best pick and roll assets in the universe at his disposal….in a pick and roll league. We got the biangle. It is great that they’re close but there is no way this was part of a “plan” or some sort of coherent strategy by that guy.
The trump card that guy has is that he got the pick that got Rubio. We thank him for that.
You foresaw 25/15?
I’m not doubting it’s possible, just trying to remember when that realization kicked in. I remember you posting a hope for 18/15 with a wink once and I thought you were crazy optimistic. I had no idea Love was good for 25 a game, though, and I can’t remember reading anyone who thought he might be. Could be wrong.
Getting back to the original point
It took a 31/31 game to get him 35 mpg. They were then surprised he did the amazing things he did at 25-28 mpg at 35 mpg with more touches. That’s a pretty clear indicator that they had no idea what they had in the guy.
I didn’t foresee any sort of number. I’m pretty sure I knew what they had.
I think it's possible to condemn Kahn/Rambis for not realizing what Love was
(which is true) but also to admit that this level of dominance is unexpected.
The problem I have with it is the same I had at the time:
It was a classic "who could have known?" quote from someone who didn’t. It was even used as an example of their player development, instead of them simply having a great player that they finally started to use correctly.
In fairness to Kahn (but not letting him off the hook)
Love is such a completely different player now it’s almost hard to recognize him if you watch rookie highlights of him
I always thought he would be a good PF and I thought he was the better asset than Jefferson (as I felt neither was a no.1 but Love’s game would work a lot better with a supposed no.1) but this guy has turned into a legitimate franchise option, and a lot to do on his own doing.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Right. Horrible thing for Kahn to say. Reflected stupidity.
At the same time…
I can remember almost everyone, even the most optimistic of Love supporters back then, saying Love was an “ultra-role player” and things like that. Put him with a pair of high-usage stars, it went, and he’d produce in the gaps of the offense.
That’s still kind of true. But people after the second year said things like “great player, could be a 17-14 guy with starters minutes.” He’s become a legitimate go-to force. I made my screen name after him and I never thought he could average 25 points a game.
not really
there were plenty of us at the time of the draft who saw Love as a potential future star, had to go back 30+ years to even find good comps for him, etc.
It’s a little funny (and sad) how much crap SnP has gotten for being a Kahn basher, when he really was quite tempered and cautious in his early opinions. SnP gave Kahn a lot more rope than I ever did – as soon as Kahn made his proclamation that Love’s ceiling was ‘4th best’, it was pretty clear that he was a dolt. SnP, in fact, was the poster who came to Kahn’s defense (sort of), when I made a fanpost comparing our new PoBO to Isiah Thomas after his first few singular moves.
Kahn got *a lot* of rope from Wolves fans in general.
His letters were well-received, his opening press conference got lots of good responses.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Just to be clear...
I’m not giving SnP crap here. I would qualify as a ‘Kahn basher’ as well, in that I think he deserves to lose his job immediately.
I’m taking this stance more out of respect for Love than defense of Kahn. I think Love has blown away what most people said he could do, even though most people said he could do more than the Wolves seemed to think he could.
Yeah - sorry, the SnP/Kahn stuff wasn't directed at you
it just ended up in the same post :)
I spent way too much time arguing over on twolves central at the time of the draft and then the mayo/love trade about that Love was in fact the high-risk, potential superstar pick, and Mayo was the high floor/ low ceiling guy. It wasn’t just me, of course, there were a good number of other posters who felt the same, some of whom are posting in this thread :D and almost all the ‘stat geek’ analysts were salivating over Love’s potential.
My thoughts on Love (vs Mayo), before he ever set foot on an NBA court:
“Love is the boom/bust guy. He’s got skills and talent that are so unusual people are going back 30+ years to try and find good comps for him” “might end up being one of the best in the league at his position” “Love is the ‘maybe’ ‘future star’ player…”
Yes
Let’s be honest… he came into the league a bit overweight (he’d turn purple every game) with limited interest in playing D.
But he has evolved and improved so much. I honestly can’t think of a player who has surprised me so much. Every time he shoots a 3 (after several makes) I keep thinking “there is no way he makes another” (going with the law of averages) an bam he does. It is a joy to watch. Him stepping up his D caps it all off.
Kurt Rambis
started Ryan Hollins in front of Love for an entire season. We aren’t talking about “starting” in the sense that Adelman starts Wes either. Rambis legitimately took significant minutes away from Love and gave them to Ryan Hollins.
There really isn’t anything that needs to be said beyond that.
That was a drop-dead moment for Rambis, really.
His explanation at the time…. God, I feel miserable just thinking back. The bowling glove can safely be buried now.
"Opinion ...a confession."
It really is insane
that it took a 31/31 game to get him minutes. I remember watching that and being really pissed off….and watching the crap they threw out there instead and thinking WTH?
Many of us did.
Maybe not quite that much, but numbers very close to that were regularly thrown out lllooonnnggg before the 31/31 game. Anyone comfortable projecting low minute stats and assuming a pretty standard 19/20 year old’s progression, was positively giddy about what Love was to become. Thanks to his impressive offseason work-ethic Love has outpaced all but the most optimistic projections, but he is certainly within the range that many of us anticipated 2 years ago.
Wait, you're saying someone can improve after coming into the league?
I thought the dogma here was that everyone stays exactly the same as when they enter the league? shrug
And nobody predicted what Love has turned into. “we think love needs more minutes” does not mean “if love gets minutes he will be one of the top 5 in the league”.
On another topic though, vj, you should probably take your rubio projection post and send it to all the NBA front offices as the front page of your scouting resume yesterday.
You're quite wrong about more than one thing here.
September, 2009, me:
Karl Malone never rebounded quite as well as Love did last year, by percentage, and the rookie comparisons aren’t there because the Mailman wasn’t that great as a rookie anyway. Love’s shot would really have to come around. Imagine, though. In theory he does have a mid-range game….
September ’09 is before his second season.
The game of “nobody predicted it” is one you can only play by moving the goalposts in terms of what you’ll accept as a “prediction.” All the Wins Produced folks, obnoxious as Dave Berri can be, have been sky-high over Kevin Love from extremely early on.
Getting past that, if you think “the dogma” is that players never change, you haven’t been paying attention.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Piling on...
So Wins Produced suggests that Kevin Love is not only the best player in Minnesota, but possibly one of the best players in the NBA. It has been suggested before in this column that the threshold for stardom in the NBA is a WP48 of .200 (a .200 player produces twice as many wins as an average player per 48 minutes) and that the threshold for "superstardom" is .300.
Patrick Minton June 2010
I do remember that article...
Fair enough. I also remember the author sounding fairly incredulous that he was even saying it…
But I also know that “players never change” is repeated here more often than is reasonable, especially in regards to very young players – the type you see change and evolve in any profession.
I was alright with it until after the heat game when it was proclaimed that “wolves lost this game because of turnovers and a large lack of talent”.
They’ve had talent the past two years, they’ve just had the most otherworldly bad coaching that the league might have ever seen.
re: changes, see below
turtles, hamsters. players change. they don’t often change types/levels.
Maybe we have a definition-based disagreement. I think talent gets results. Instead of watching the otherworldly Kevin Love run up and down the court pretty much by himself (and Tolliver), this year Rubio, Barea, Tolliver and a patchy Randolph/Williams join him (sometimes Ridnour). Hopefully the rising tide will lift even the crappiest boats, just by a little. I just don’t think it will change things into what they are not.
Good young players typically improve...
bad players, who show no production very rarely improve.
One year of poor play (see Wes) may be a bit early, but there are very few examples of players who don’t at least play well, for a rookie, who become good players. I feel comfortable giving up on Wes because he has the added problem of age. He needs to have shown something by now.
Beasley has had 3 season and failed to play well in any of them. He is what he is.
Good players get better, bad players play the same. There are always outliers, but historically this seems to be the way it works.
And herein is my complaint with the analysis.
Statistics (god I can’t believe I’m saying this but bear with me) only chart the result of whatever action was taken. They provide an excellent method of investigating what has happened.
They, however, do not take into account (because it’s probably impossible) the question: “should this action even be what you should be trying to do?”.
If the best action to attempt is hit a guy on a cut and all he is ever used for is to be a stand-still shooter (wes)…. If someone who has no business being a primary ballhandler is asked to facilitate all offense through the post (darko)…
If someone who launches too many shots is given significant freedom (beasley)…
If someone who is likely a generational passer who is asked to hand off the ball and go sit in the corner (rubio)…
If someone is a lights out shooter, bad passer, and is asked to run the point (luke)…
If these things are happening it’s highly possible that the statistical representation of their seasons might not be indicitative of their talent or abilities.
I’d say something about flynn if I thought there was any redemption for him but some players just really don’t have any hope.
My viewpoint is that, with young players especially, coaching is paramount. And I’m a numbers guy in almost every way shape and form, but sometimes they are not the right tool.
by bustaone on Jan 3, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
This is why I hold out some hope for Beasley becoming a good player
even though the stat predictions aren’t great for him. I’m not seeing anything with Wes that gives me hope for the future though.
Luke and Darko have some usefulness as long as they stay in their lane (coaching effect).
This is a good point.
I’m not sure if you were intentionally bringing this into the conversation but this…
They, however, do not take into account (because it’s probably impossible) the question: "should this action even be what you should be trying to do?".
reminds me that there is one very good reason bad players almost never turn it around… They stop getting PT.
Also...
…let’s not forget the key part of Adelman’s excellent coaching vis-a-vis Rambis: he plays the good players.
It was intentional, and my entire point.
And I think you have a good point as well for what happens when “round” player is attempted to be forced into a “square” player hole… It is found that they suck at it. And they are shut down.
One of the most telling of these is Rubio. His euro numbers were spectacularly bad his last year there. Was it because he was awful and had no talent? No, he was a square peg in a round hole. But if you go strictly off of statistical analysis you miss the entire point; that he was being used impossibly incorrectly.
Or maybe he was a turtle and turned into a duck? ;-)
this argument
1. Players produce poorly for many reasons
2. Among these reasons is that they are used improperly
3. If players are used properly they produce to their natural ability
4. Many of the wolves players have been used improperly
5. Many of the wolves player thus have higher natural ability than their production suggests
As far as I can tell, this is fine logic. The argument, then, is about magnitudes. How much higher is Wes Johnson’s natural ability than his prior production? We have no estimates of this magnitude. I think it’s small.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
I think you've misunderstood the premise.
Players get better but they have to have an NBA level skill to start with which Johnson doesn’t appear to have (maybe passing is there and defense has been occasionally). They will take their legitimate skills and improve them. Rambis’ theory was to work mainly on the skills you don’t have rather than building an offense around the skills you do have.
Love for instance came in as an efficient scorer and a great rebounder, he has become a very efficient scorer and a legendary rebounder while moving defense from mediocre to acceptable/good depending on what type of player he’s guarding. He even showed off some help defense yesterday.
Johnson has entered as a bad dribbling, bad shooting, bad rebounding, sometime good defender (LAL, GSW games last year). At best that is going to be an ok shooting, defensive specialist … i.e. not what you expect from your number 4 pick.
For comparison Derrick Williams seems to have entered as a big with a great stroke, cuts to the basket well, finishes inside well, dribbles decently (has a propensity for charging), Rebounds acceptably and plays ok defense. It’s night and day better than Johnson for a starting point, while being younger and having shown more in college.Taking his skills up a level he becomes a great stretch big with handles and the ability to be nasty inside. It almost gives me hope that he could play the three but I’m not sure his lateral agility is good enough to stay with the LBJ, Carmelos, Paul Pierces or even Beasly of the NBA.
Stop lying. It's insulting.
But I also know that "players never change" is repeated here more often than is reasonable, especially in regards to very young players – the type you see change and evolve in any profession.
The same people you’re blatantly misquoting go well out of their way to emphasize that usually, the younger a player is on entering the league, the better.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Sorry you took so much insult..
How was I to know your individual nuance?
And stop telling me I’m lying, it’s insulting…
And for that matter, I’m pretty sure you were reading a different blog if that is the impression you came away with. But you’re entitled to that view, and all is well.
Beg pardon, sorry. Let me say it in a less pointed way.
But you imply that people, like SnP, are saying “players never change.” That’s not true.
Then you say that it’s especially true of “very young players.” In the case of Wes Johnson, for the obvious example, the board has done his advanced age as of the draft to death. It’s constantly been used as among the convincing reasons for which he wasn’t a particularly good draft pick next to younger prospects. The other day when LeBron’s birthday was so over-celebrated, was it PoorDick who cracked that Wes had celebrated three or four birthdays himself this past year? It’s a running joke, for the sake of goodness.
You’ve taken the arguments of people who say, roughly:
The chance of a player improving is dramatically better if they come into the league younger.
and you’re saying those people don’t believe young players can change. (Knocks microphone.) Do you see how backward that is?
"Opinion ...a confession."
I think we are talking about different things.
The basis of what I was saying was that (I thought) players being used counter intuitively to their skillset would artificially drop their value from a statistical basis…
This was in response to the litany of “X player sucks, always has sucked, and always will suck” coming from a number of different people. The general conversation would go as follows:
Person A: “Player X is terrible. Always will be and has a history of it.”
Person B: “Player X is still young and has a chance.”
Person A: “Billups/Battier are the only ones who have ever done that so it could happen but … won’t.”
My contention was that, essentially, the players don’t need to ‘become a different player’ but rather to be used in alignment with their abilities (or lack thereof).
I don’t know what’s backwards with that, but we can see over the season how the team reacts to Adleman. I believe we will see significant jumps in performance from most of our team simply from having roles that fit their skillset. The best example going now is Darko – he’s playing at nearly double his career high in wp/48. And I haven’t seen him do anything outside of himself, simply him doing things that he is good at and Adleman has put him in position to do.
You simply are misrepresenting what people say here.
But I also know that "players never change" is repeated here more often than is reasonable, especially in regards to very young players – the type you see change and evolve in any profession.
There’s no subset of Canis posters saying “players never change.”
The people you’re supposedly scoffing at here are in fact among the most vociferous advocates of drafting (and otherwise taking risks on) “very young players.”
Both of those assertions by you are so badly upside-down, I can only take stuff like what you said above as deliberately provoking.
"Opinion ...a confession."
It doesn't seem intentionally provoking to me
Presenting the opposing argument in a reductive way happens a lot. It’s not always done to provoke, it just makes it easier to argue against an overly simplified (and thereby indefensible) point. It’s ignorant to the point of frustration, but I don’t think it’s about intentional provocation.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
?
Nobody is saying that people can’t get better. What is being said about guys like Wes or Beasley or Darko is that hamsters cannot turn into turtles, only better hamsters (and that’s if we’re lucky).
BUT!
turtles CAN turn into ninjas (with the help of mutogenic radioactive ooze).
…
sorry.
by davechisholm on Jan 3, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
No I fully understand your concept.
I just don’t agree.
People aren’t turtles. People are …. people. It does help for comedy to insert something absurd, but it’s just a failed analogy.
No it's not
Wanting certain types of players to become other types of players doesn’t happen all that often.
Yes, the Wolves had terrible coaching over the last 2 years. We still have non-Rambis track records for guys like Ridnour, Darko, Beasley and Tolliver. We also have nearly 90 games of watching Wes Johnson to know that he hasn’t shown the ability to do much of anything. We all know that these guys were used like crap (the Darko offense stuff is really amazing) but it’s not like we can’t sort through their actual production to look for cases and instances of the type of play we think they’d be better suited to.
Yes, roles and coaching matter, but it’s not like these sorts of things weren’t used at all by the team during the last 2 years. We all have an inkling that Beasley needs to stop the long 2 and attack the basket even though long 2s are what he’s “best” at. Can he completely alter who he is? Will that be effective? I’m sure there is a fairly decent sample size of plays we can look at to make a good guess.
That's not what I said.
If I wasn’t clear enough, as I do tend to ramble, I only intended that players be used for what they are good at.
That would mean to do what they are good at rather than what they aren’t good at. That has nothing to do with becoming a different player.
I hear ya. Just disagree. Think of what Wes would be good at
I’m sure you can find instances where he was allowed to do that during last season and at Syracuse.
His problem is that he’s not good at much and his round hole (to his square peg) is the NBA. (That’s a bit harsh, admittedly.)
Wes...
…yeah I had high hopes for him coming into the season. We’ll see, he’s had some bad misses, but I think we haven’t seen the last insane rubioop to him. I watched as much syracuse youtube on him as I could, and I think he is capable of doing nba level things…
Someone on here said it best yesterday: “every time wes does something good he looks around for affirmation, this is not a good place for an nba player”. I have a feeling he was beaten down so badly mentally by Rambus that he lost all confidence in his abilities.
I don’t know one way or another about wes, but when I load up those orangemen highlights he sure does appear to be capable of doing a number of NBA level things.
Now I feel silly for rambling about wes because my complaint was more systemic than just focused on him.
If players are used for what they are good at their numbers will improve.
I don't disagree
It goes the other way too, as we often saw with Rambis (Sessions!). Coaching matters—I don’t disagree.
My disagreement comes with the particular players on this roster; namely Darko, Wes, and Beas (and probably Randolph due to what appears to be going on in his head).
Let’s agree that Rambis was absolute crap and root/hope that Wes can be some sort of magical transformational creature who just needs a pat on the head to get really good so the team doesn’t have to trade Williams for a functional wing player.
Here here!
I’m hoping for magic too! And if Adleman can’t do it, nobody can.
I missed what you said above too about having pre-and post rambus numbers for our players...
Someone on here wrote up an article about that. Might have been vj, can’t remember.
Sessions? better before and after
Bassy? better before
Luke? better before
Etc. So it is a known effect, or at least has some semblance of a systemic issue. (oh, you just posted that too. jinx)
Bassy is also better after
small sample size, but man has the guy produced so far this year.
...
Sessions’ year by year WP48
Bucks 06-07: 0.239
Bucks 07-08: 0.239
Bucks 08-09: 0.198
Wolvs 09-10: 0.042
Cavs 10-11: 0.189
Kurt Rambis was magic and transformational, for sure.
Not letting players go to their strengths: not a good player development model.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I think you do mis represent what people think Wes/Darko can be
I will give you Beasley, I’m blinded enough by the talent to think he can become a turtle.
But I think people would have to be foolish to thin Wes or Darko can become like a “stud”
I however don’t think it’s unreasonable for Wes to get him self to be: active, good passing, good rebounding, good defensively, and hit open shots. That would be a playable player, and he has done those things on occasion
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I don't think I misrepresent that
I put it above the fold. He needs to do lots of other things off the ball.
I just don’t think he’ll get there. I think that type of play is effectively turtle play for hamster Wes.
fair enough
I’m not saying he will, either.
Those are all skills he has shown the “ability” to do at an NBA level….to me it’s just about putting it all together and doing it consistently….which, sure might be a stretch, but I think that’s well within his “breed” (keeping the tone of your turtle/hamster argument).
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He has the ability to touch the top of the square on the backboard
I’ve seen him do it. He has the ability to run through a bunch of cones and dunk the ball faster than anyone I know of that size. I’ve seen him do it from 5 feet away.
His results suggest he doesn’t have the ability to do the things we want him to do on a consistent basis.
Sure, not the things WE want...
But the cone thing is pretty impressive.
The Wolves are *trying* to give him those settings where he's comfortable.
The rest of the roster at the wing does amount to a bunch of static cones on the floor.
"Opinion ...a confession."
It's not about being a "stud"
It’s about providing a talent or ability that is beneficial to the team’s chances to win.
So SNP, to be clear on what you're saying....
For Wes to be successful in the NBA he must not just overcome a giant “hurtle”, but also cecome one?
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
Way to ruin my own joke
become one
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
Not easy to drag up quotes, but here are a few...
By what measure?? KG at his prime was much better than Love at 21, but KG at 21 wasn’t as good as KG at his prime.
Age 21 stats for each (after KG’s 3rd year and Love’s 2nd year)
I’ve shown stats where Love is better at the top and where KG is better below. Love has more of the important categories in my view.
Stats where Love is better:
———————————————————
PER – Love 22.5, KG 20.4,
Total – Reb% Love 21.5%, KG 13.9%
TS% – Love 56.7%, KG 52.7%
Points per 36 – Love 18.5, KG 17.0
3 pt FG% – Love 40.5%, KG 18.8&
FT% – Love 80.2%, KG 73.8%
rebounds per 36 – Love 13.9, KG 8.8
00000000000000000000000000000
Stats where KG is better
———————————————————————
Ast per 36 – KG 3.9, Love 2.8
Stl per 36 – KG 1.6, Love 0.9
Blks per 36 – KG 1.7, Love 0.4
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Mar 4, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/4/27/1447514/love-compared-to-other-pfs
by Blakeley on Apr 27, 2010 1:50 PM PDT
This argument would be way different if Kevin Love was playing 36 minutes per game. As a matter of fact, lets look at how they compare in their second year on a per 36 minute basis:
Anthony
Pts/36: 21.5
Rebs/36: 5.9
Ast/36: 2.7
Efg: .448
TS%: .526
PER: 16.7
Love:
Pts/36: 17.7
Rebs/36: 13.8
Ast/36: 2.9
Efg: .478
TS%: .549
PER: 20.7
In their second years, Carmelo scored 5 points more per 36, Love did everything else better.
I think long-term Love projects to help his team win more then Carmelo currently does. I can understand if you disagree, I just don’t think the argument is as off base as people make it out to be.
by Blakeley on Apr 23, 2010 6:24 AM PDT
K LOVE IZ THOWED
mayn he so thowed!
name de baby afta me mayn i promise big thangs gon come out uv it i have been compared to a roman god and de real god twice dis week alone i’ll leave it at dat mayn. blow sum kill ta celebrate mayn congrats on de kid!
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jan 9, 2010 1:14 PM PST
by vjl110 on Jan 3, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Reference Librarian epaulettes are being ordered for your shoulders.
(And a rec for including Mayn.)
"Opinion ...a confession."
I like the Mayn quote.
And if I really try I can find quite a few from myself as well from last year.
So maybe I’m projecting my feelings outwards a bit, but I honestly did not envision kevin to legitimately be a top 5 player in this league. Could have sworn that when it was brought up people generally contended that the rating system was broken. My memory isn’t the best though.
I couldn't find the quote...
but I know I said 22 and 15 at some point in the 2010 season.
That said, you are right that anyone projecting over 20ppg (which BTW he could easily regress to before the year is out) was pretty far on the right end of the distribution of prognosticators. I think the reason Kahn’s quote was so irritating is that he and Rambis were woefully out of touch with the fan-base and any objective metric in terms of Love’s value. It was more “rebounding” based value than the current Love product, but the fans knew what they had and Kahmbis didn’t.
There was plenty of information available to see that Love was good
He always passed the “eye test” for me as well… so he had both things going as far as I’m concerned.
The scoring and awesome 3 point shooting surprised me a bit last year, and I was wondering how exactly he could improve from there (aside from less obvious things like better defensive positioning and maybe improving his passing game). It didn’t seem like there was an obvious next step in terms of adding new skills.
Well, he came back in ridiculous shape and with entirely unexpected new facets to his game (step back 3’s!?!). The fact that he did that tells me he hasn’t touched his ceiling yet if he stays that hungry. That kind of offseason work is the difference between him having a very good career vs. having a HOF type career and being in the MVP discussion multiple years.
So… I always thought he was going to be very good. But this good? Possible MVP caliber? I have to admit that I’m surprised.
The irritating thing about another Kahn quote, though,
was that after Love emerged he used him as an example of how we shouldn’t assume we can predict who’s going to be good. Based on his line of reasoning, we were supposed to remain completely open-minded to the idea of Wes, or Jonny, or whoever else emerging in the same way. Darko, too.
He took the example of someone who’d been pegged by people who knew what they were doing as a potential star, and he used it to toss the lesson out the window.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Yep
It was paraded out as an example of player development. In house player development done by people that were fired after the season.
He didn't draft Love
So he wanted to spin it as a surprise, and maintain hope for his terrible draft picks.
Not comforting that he couldn’t learn from his mistakes.
We probably aren't that far apart on this...
If I understand your bit about Love having “outpaced all but the most optimistic projections” correctly. I’m just saying that it’s possible to have bitched about Love’s handling back in the day AND to be pleasantly surprised at how good he is playing right now. I will be the first to admit that I thought he would plateau below this level, and I never thought I’d see him lean up as he has. I definitely never thought he’d get KG comparisons at this point in his career. But that’s me being wrong.
Then again, I also think that the folks who predicted 18/15, 20/12, and even 22/15 are even being proven a bit pessimistic at this point. As you say, he’s outpacing (almost?) all of the projections at this point…
You want me to do the research on that?
I had no idea Love was good for 25 a game, though, and I can’t remember reading anyone who thought he might be.
In the offseason after his rookie year, I asked for comparisons and suggested Karl Malone was somewhat out of reach. Close enough?
"Opinion ...a confession."
Ha!
Forgot about that one, or maybe never caught it. Nice work.
Look, my point is this: I think many here were ahead of the curve on this guy. That said, I have a hard time believing that anyone posted Love would be good for 25/15 a night. Folks thought he’d be 20/10, for sure, but a ho-hum 25/15 guy with a dagger three-point shot? KG comparisons? Significantly increased mobility like we’re enjoying now? I totally, totally recognize that the dude was (and maybe is) tragically undervalued by the organization… But aren’t we all at least a TINY bit pleasantly surprised?
If you watched Love for a year and thought Karl Malone (career 25/10 player) was out of reach, I kind of feel like we’re saying the same thing. He was, is, and will be an amazing player— even better than we thought.
That's where I was coming from too.
Good? Yeah, I had a good feeling. Very good? Yeah, thought that it was possible for the lower minutes production to translate but I didn’t know that he had the conditioning (and it’s possible that he didn’t).
But what he has become now is ridiculous. Spectacular. Dirk with 15 boards a game. I didn’t know that anyone could be this, let alone have us be lucky enough to have this person on our hometown team!
I just think you hang too much on that comment
I’ve heard numerous coaches/gm’s say about players “we knew he could be great, but we didn’t know he’d be this great”.
The Olympic coaches certainly didn’t demonstrate that faith in him (and I thought they should have).
Aaron Rogers comes to mind. I think it’s fair to say he surpassed expectations this year?
And I’m as dumb as Kahn because I thought Love would be great but I didn’t think he could be this great. It really is remarkable, but he has such a strong will I don’t doubt he could be an MVP.
You can make a fine argument against Kahn, I just think continually bringing up that statement is a little misleading and maybe a little nit picky.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Olympic team makes an interesting wrinkle.
Love was getting bit minutes, but his usage on that team was sky-high. Was he coached to be forcing the action in that role?
"Opinion ...a confession."
And I hold Rambis way more accountable than Kahn
He played in the league and didn’t know (or wouldn’t admit) what he had.
Frankly Rambis was either insane or insanely jealous.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
I actually do to
Even though Flynn and Wes were probably not the right players to have selected…it’s not like they were bad prospects…they both would have gone in the top 10.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I just mean in regards to Love
He seemed very reluctant for Kevin to succeed/excell.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with that
I think he thought Love was just another version of himself and was shocked to learn otherwise. Love was also McHale’s guy. Let’s not forget that, either. That rubbed both Rambis and Kahn the wrong way.
You're giving him too much credit
After all of the verbal gaffes do you really think he put any time into thinking about that comment? I don’t.
And I think Kahn has earned an A+ this year from the draft to the unloading of players/coaches, to the Nelson family package (Ricky and his dad), to Barrea, etc. etc. and to most importantly keeping his mouth shut.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry
Is was supposed to post under “mission statement”.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
It's a meta mission statement
Of course he didn’t put any time thinking into that comment. It has all been by the seat of his pants. Now that the ship has been put out to sea and is floating, he needs to be put on the next life raft back to shore so he can’t sink it. Thanks for the 5th pick, thanks for not getting in the way of Team Adelman, here’s a parting gift/watch, thanks for playing.
Whatever he’s done, it has been on a razor’s edge to disaster. We could very easily be watching a Flynn/Thabeet Don Nelson led disaster. That type of potential is still in the building. No more tight rope/razor walking.
Ahhh
And therein lies the secret of his genius.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
I get that this is entertainment...
…and I’m really not bugged about this in any sort of “real” sense, but incompetence is incompetence and luck is luck. He’s plinko-chipped his way to having a team with promise. It is amazing that we’re here at this point despite some pretty crazy things having happened. That being said, I’ve baited myself into talking about He Who Shall Not Be Named. I apologize.
speaking of plinko
did anybody see snoop dogg on “the price is right” yesterday?! it was amazing.
celebrity week on that show consists of celebrities telling people what they would guess on the price of a bag of bird feed.
by davechisholm on Jan 3, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
he was actually on point...
…the whole game. he even told one lady where to drop her plinko chip and BAM, she landed 10 GRAND.
i’m guessing he’s a reptilian from the center of the hollow earth.
or an ancient alien.
by davechisholm on Jan 3, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
I thought it was awesome
And I was left there thinking, when was the last time Snoop Dogg bought a single roll of paper-towels? Even more so, does he even have any idea what $2 is?
And finally, I loved how almost everyone won under his guideance. He must have really studied up before the game.
It felt like one of those things
Where if you are gonna do it, just go all out. No need to bring in Snoop Dogg and have him hand out marginal advice and watch people lose… have him come on, hand out cars and motorcycles like candy, and make it one big party.
he probably went undercover working the cash register at PAMIDA or something
by davechisholm on Jan 3, 2012 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Second-best to Paz Vega working the 10-items-or-less line as cashier.
(Nice little movie, that.)
"Opinion ...a confession."
Chris Wallace
There’s another guy who’s made some terrible, awful moves with no coherent plan and ended up with a pretty young, talented team.
OJ Mayo+ for Love
Hasheem Thabeet #2 in a very good draft
Give him credit for going after Z-Bo though.
That last one
is going to be interesting to see if Glen allows it at all, and if Kahn gets to be in charge of the campaign.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I hope Glen allows it
and Kahn isn’t allowed anywhere near it.
And my first post should have read Love+ for OJ Mayo.
Wallace liked Love better
His boss made him pull the trigger on it. Heisley did a David Kahn (watched Mayo shoot jump shots in a gym once and dictated his GM’s direction based on the workout) as well as did some penny pinching – they saved some dough on the trade.
How did they save money
when we were dumping bad contracts on them? we were the ones that saved money and got a better player.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
I missed that. Is there a gag order on DK sightings?
I feel the same way about Rambis. Every day I see Adelman coach I get madder and madder at Rambis. What a total waste of time.
For Love to excel with that tool in charge really shows his incredible resolve.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
That's a good analogy
You to Rambis is me to Kahn. When you get multiple emails saying things to the effect of “You have at least 20 commenters on your site who know more about basketball than this guy” within 2 months of him arriving and then watch what happened, ugh. And yes, I promise no more references. He’s great. I have to be done on the point I’ve made too many times.
Love was lucky..
..his skillset will work in almost any system.
In an example of blind luck akin to HWSNBN'd,
Chris Wallace actually put a team together that made the playoffs last year.
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
You're giving him too much credit
After all of the verbal gaffes do you really think he put any time into thinking about that comment? I don’t.
And I think Kahn has earned an A+ this year from the draft to the unloading of players/coaches, to the Nelson family package (Ricky and his dad), to Barrea, etc. etc. and to most importantly keeping his mouth shut.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
And tanking.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I just think you hang too much on that comment
I’ve heard numerous coaches/gm’s say about players “we knew he could be great, but we didn’t know he’d be this great”.
The Olympic coaches certainly didn’t demonstrate that faith in him (and I thought they should have).
Aaron Rogers comes to mind. I think it’s fair to say he surpassed expectations this year?
And I’m as dumb as Kahn because I thought Love would be great but I didn’t think he could be this great. It really is remarkable, but he has such a strong will I don’t doubt he could be an MVP.
You can make a fine argument against Kahn, I just think continually bringing up that statement is a little misleading and maybe a little nit picky.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Speaking of being slow...
by saudagg on Jan 3, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think he means thrice
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
The Post is just trolling there.
“The call I didn’t want to get”? Calling shenanigans there.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I couldn't read past the first page.
Vescey’s prose is so self-consciously purple, and his tone is so smug, I can’t take it. I never minded him on TV, but on the page he makes me crazy.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
The Post's M.O. is to look for an eye in which to poke a stick.
Pre tabloid silliness. Consult their other coverage. Their Post’s Top Ten sidebar has this story as #2:
Mitt Romney bashes Kim Kardashian
"Opinion ...a confession."
Link,
please?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Heh. I was avoiding it, because it means I'd have to go to that fricking page, man.
Mitt Romney bashes Kim Kardashian.
Oh criminy, it’s even better. He based Obama, too, but they led with Kardashian.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Interestingly (to me, perhaps)
it was more of a financing bubble that drove housing prices. Given the fundamentals of financing and the race to the bottom to provide mortgages, the housing prices were reasonable.
The wise economists were clamoring about the fraud rampant in the financing segment, realizing its impact on the housing market in general and the entire economy as a whole.
How does this relate to Love? Know not, but please get him signed to a deal already…
Fraud
see what I said about the NINJA loans. it is impossible for those to be anything but fraudulent, still banks where falling all over themselves to give them out. largely because they knew they could pass those loans off to investors who had now way of knowing they were bad (stupid investors) but they were helped by rating agencies that were getting kick backs from the banks so, where back to fraud. Ultimately it all started with deregulation.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Let's hear some Love love: last night's post-game edition on Pounding the Rock.
From their game recap:
He hits the three, defends, and rebounds. He is a match-up nightmare. Tim and Tiago are too slow, Blair is too small, Bonner is too slow and too small. I keep thinking that Kawhi may be a good option, but Pop wouldn’t roll those dice. Kevin Love is a beast, and he’s our enemy.
But, ulp, I forgot to add the first line, which I think goes to the real reason he’s being underestimated:
He’s like Matt Bonner, except good.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I got to give the Spurs credit again though: Kawhi looks like a great pick up
There announcers on the other hand were the worst. You know your in for a long night when an announcer refers to the team they are broadcasting as “we.”
I wasn't listening, but assumed it was Sean Elliott.
He’s…. Not doing Alan Horton’s research, but he knows all the first names of players on his team.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I'm pretty sure Elliot wasn't on the call last night.
It was Danny Ferry and some other abysmally boring gentleman.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
It was Ferry
And apparently he’s the GM or some such FO guy, so I guess his constant use of “we” when referring to the Spurs at least fits a bit.
Agreed on Love as the MVP
He will be in the ‘top 10’ discussion from here on out, and will have a real shot at winning if we ever win 55+ in a season.
I bet Hollinger will lobby for him every year from now on.
by TO12 on Jan 2, 2012 11:22 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions 2 recs
And put it this way
There have been some big question marks about his game since he entered the league, and every year here answers them.
I’m just sayin, I’m not betting against KLove anymore.
by TO12 on Jan 2, 2012 11:25 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed with this.
He has really grown this year. He was actually playing some defense tonight (blocks? WHAT???) and actually has a 1 on 1 game now. Its stupid fun to watch him. I think the fact that his game under the hoop is kind of old school is also pretty fun.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 2, 2012 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
IMO he's top 10
1. LeBron
2. D12
3. Wade
4. CP3
5. Durant
6. Dirk
7. Pau
8. Rose
9. Love
10. Bynum (when not injured) otherwise Nene.
I expect that he’ll be #6 by the end of the season. Pau and Dirk are aging and I think Rose + Durant are slightly overhyped (though still great players). Bryant has finally fallen to top 15 status and Griffen should soon move up as his defense and jump shot develop.
Cases can be made for Griffen/LMA/Pierce/Horford /KG/Manu from 10-20 and I’m not quite sure where to rank them all. NY has got to be the most interesting collection of highly touted scorers whose games I’m not a huge fan of (I like Stoudemire considerably more than Melo however).
Wait
No Kobe?
They say it's always darkest just before dawn and man, was it dark last year. Come to think of it, I'm not needing my sunglasses this year, either.
by SBG on Jan 3, 2012 9:01 AM CST up reply actions
I watched his 6-28 effort with a smile
It’s weird to watch. He doesn’t have the legs to do what he used to do and he can’t wrap his head around doing anything else.
Luckily, he has so little class
that he’ll hang around long after he’s lost it, bitching about not getting his touches.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I can't remember who tweeted it...
….but after Kobe shot 6-28 in a loss, Andrew Bynum apologized for the loss. He is battered.
He used to be up there
I think age has caught up to him. He’s still an excellent player but I think he’s top 15 territory rather than top 10 now. Garnet is in a similar place but probably in the 15-20 range rather than 10-15.
Players better than Love:
Lebron, Wade, CP3, Durant, ….. Howard?
This is all.
No kidding...
I may rate Love higher than anyone else on this blog and I don’t pause to put Howard above him.
Durant on the other hand….
I was about to make a really lame joke
pointing out the ambiguity of the first part of your comment. I didn’t, because that would have violated section 1 of my New Years resolution.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Send those to me
and I’ll make them.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
That's about right
I could drop Dirk down though. He is a bit over hyped after last season. Good point on Durant and Rose too. Great players, but I think their status is a slight step ahead of their game right now.
Speaking of Rose
I’m totally stoked to watch him with a health Boozer and Hamilton. He’s always put up decent assist numbers but being able to rely offensively on his teammates more is going to be good for him. I never understood why Brewer didn’t get more burn last year.
RE: Dirk, it’s quite possible that he’s overhyped but I felt like once he started playing with Chandler he picked up his defense and became a complete player. We’ll see if he can maintain that this year with Chandler in New York.
The other thing about Dirk
and why I’d place him ahead of Durant, is that, the past couple years, I’ve seen him destroy every type of defense keyed to stop him in high pressure situations, while I’ve seen Durant consistently be held in check, and denied the ball, down the stretch if you play him physically, and the game’s not being called tightly (kind of like Dirk earlier in his career).
by mr. eggplant on Jan 3, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
An interesting point
However one of the big differences in my mind between OKC and Dallas is that while Terry, Marion and co. are good players, the option of Harden/Westbrook is just on another level so if a team chooses to deny Durant, OKC can just roll with it and go to option B.
well, the other side of that
is that it places more pressure on Dirk, and he delivers anyway. it’s an interesting debate, one I suspect will be over in another year or so.
by mr. eggplant on Jan 3, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
That seems about right.
For him to rise any higher, I think he’d have to prove he could play average to above average defense over a period of several months. (Also, I think you’re overrating Bynum and Nene, but that’s neither here nor there.)
by mr. eggplant on Jan 3, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
around the 10th spot I have trouble differentiating the next tier of players
That said while I dislike the guy personally I think Bynum and Nene are both great C who provides toughness, rim protection, and the offense a guy like Chandler doesn’t with Bynum being a cut above Nene.
Who would you name #10 if not Bynum?
either zach randolph or aldridge
manu is a top ten player when actually on the court, but his durability (even before his injury) pushes him down. you could also make a good argument for deron williams. That said, Bynum is talented enough that he could be a top ten player.
by mr. eggplant on Jan 3, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
I put Deron 10, if not higher.
Pre-Derek Rose there was no question that the top two PGs in the league were Paul and Deron. Nothing has changed about D-will except that his team is freaking terrible.
It's pretty awesome to say...
that a guy has “grown” after a 20-15 season. It kind of blows your mind. Let’s let this season play out and make our proclamations later. Although to see KLove in this kind of shape playing out of his mind is sweet.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 3, 2012 1:03 AM CST up reply actions
Great point on Hollinger.
If the Wolves snag an 8th seed this year, there are going to be Love-For-MVP calls.
I love the Wes, Rubio, true maestro bit.
Let me try again, Rubio is our basketball Gaudi.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
He really can be as spectacular, yet contextual, as Gaudi's barcelona masterpiece
he can make you see the familiar in new ways, if you will.
The rubio-wes-rubio-wes 3 pointer really was great on several levels. I got a bit of the feeling I used to have, playing for a soccer team that “overachieved” — mostly due to each player’s tendency to understand, and compensate-for, his teammates’ weaknesses
Not that there's anything wrong with that . . .
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
Rubiasm?
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 8:17 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you zero_on_up,
You said in a beautiful way, what I could not formulate. I was worried no one was making the connection between Catalan, it’s native son architect, and our amazing point guard. Now because I’m not good with links and such I can urge anyone who isn’t familiar with Gaudi and his amazing work, but is curious, to check it out.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 3, 2012 2:01 AM CST up reply actions
My favourite is the "melted" apartment block (La Casa Mila)
When I lived in Barca for a while, I used to walk past that on my walk to work. I would go five minutes early just to look at that.
Welcome to Lob Tundra! -dan_the_man
That's the ad
Some mad man has gotta have Ricky dribbling and passing through a Gaudi-like dreamscape, then boom, Nike or wtf ever logo comes up. Wouldn’t really matter, it would just be a sweetass evocative ad.
More Positivity
1. This is a team that should get better as the season goes along. The more time they spend playing together. They’re wing play wasn’t going to be as awful as it had been in the First Four Games. Rubio plus Average Wing play plus K. Love equals Outside Shot at Playoffs.
2. According to Point Differential we’ve been the 5th Best Team in the Western Conference. The five games in 7 days. Could give us a chance to be at least at .500- 10 games into the Season.
3. One more point about Kevin Love is even when he’s having an off-night shooting unlike a Durant-type player- he helps the team quite a bit in other ways beyond even rebounding (Such as Setting Screens and Tips). To think- this blog used to debate K.Love vs OJ Mayo, K.Love vs Al, K.Love vs Greg Oden.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
by Jose Cordoba on Jan 2, 2012 11:20 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
The days of
Love vs. Big Al do seem ridiculous in hindsight. One day (yesterday), the days of national media arguing Love vs. Bosh will also seem insane.
...I've been drinking...
by losDelFuego on Jan 2, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It'll be listed as a symptom in the next DSM, methinks
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
I have some names
of some possible victims.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
pt #3
YESSSS!!!
He always has the rebounding!!!
People, he’s from another planet. Do you realize what they have with this guy?
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 2, 2012 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
lol.
your out of control. This isn’t like you but I’m digging it.
by bringbackbrewer on Jan 3, 2012 1:04 AM CST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Another Planet?
Could it be… The planet Lovetron? #oldschool
They say it's always darkest just before dawn and man, was it dark last year. Come to think of it, I'm not needing my sunglasses this year, either.
by SBG on Jan 3, 2012 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
Nice
They need to be some sort of Funkadelic/We are Family combo with Planet Lovetron at the center of the universe.
(stealing borrowing for the twitter machine)
Look at the difference already.
Rubio’s played seven games with the team, and you can already see EVERY PLAYER passing better, being more alert, sharing more, being more active.
LeBron was right. The Wolves will get scarier the more time they have to play together. They won’t always shoot lights-out like they did tonight, but the Rubio dust will ensure that the team gets better looks than they would otherwise, and better looks than they’ve gotten maybe ever.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 2, 2012 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
(A lot of that could be Adelman, too, but still.)
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 2, 2012 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It is silly crazy how good this team could be...
…with a competent 3 and someone like Redick at the 2. They murder other teams. Just murder them.
Adleman isn't done yet.
Don’t underestimate the power of the galactic suck of Rambus. I don’t think we’ve seen what this team can do, personal intact, yet.
by bustaone on Jan 2, 2012 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think so...
Listening to the SA announcers on my free month of NBATV, they kept talking about “these MN players are really long and energetic”…. Hmmm, maybe Khan holding up prop cards? Or, we actually are getting better players assembled.
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
by LoveLovesLove on Jan 3, 2012 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
That's where I disagree.
So many of our players have some specific flaw that needs to be made up for as a team (coaching), but weren’t accounted for over the past two years. I got the feeling constantly last year that somehow everyone was doing far worse than they should have.
Perfect situation for them with Adleman. You can see the improvement on a game by game basis, and this is only the 7th game he’s had with them.
Best of all, despite any particular player hate, I don’t think that anyone can question the overall product being produced at this point.
by bustaone on Jan 3, 2012 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Do not agree and If this team continues to win
You will not be able to continue to say that. If you do we’ll have to tie you to a dingy and have you follow behind the ship.
Don’t even lay that groundwork. You will need to reconcile that the parts surrounding the motor (KL) and drivetrain (RR) are essential as well.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
This is the crazy thing
I’m not laying the groundwork. It is in the boxcore/stat sheet. The 82 Games Wolves page is a freak show right now. Ditto BR. Love currently sports a PER difference that is higher than the league average. Granted, we are looking at a very small sample size, but if this continues for a month or two, we have something truly crazy on our hands.
If they continue to win
I assume we’d be looking at some different evidence by then.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not going to assume anything with a team built around....
….two weirdly awesome players. Every now and then something just doesnt make sense. I think we are looking at one of those things. Just look at the 82 Games bit. 4 of the starters are getting waxed. Look at the ortg drtg differentials on BR; the stud play is coming from two main sources. Their win agains the Spurs saw 70% shooting for 3/4 of the tilt. They dont have a real 2 or 3. Their best non Love big is a guy who seems to be able to defend 3 spots while hitting 3s. Weird stuff is afoot. It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out and where the 2 players worth of solid non Love production per game is going to come from.
In truth
the Mavs win was better. The Spurs win was entirely driven by the shooting, which was not sustainable. Against the Mavs, they won 3 of the 4 factors and did more things well.
Weirdness is going to be a major theme with this team. When their weird players do their weird stuff well, they will have chances to win.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 4, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
What's really crazy....
….is that they won 3 of 4 against the Heat and just got blown out with turnovers. Ditto Milwaukee. Their expected W/L is above .500 right now:
PTS/G: 100.2 (6th of 30) â–Ş Opp PTS/G: 96.6 (19th of 30)
SRS: 6.09 (7th of 30) â–Ş Pace: 96.1 (3rd of 30)
Off Rtg: 104.3 (13th of 30) â–Ş Def Rtg: 100.6 (11th of 30)
Expected W-L: 3-2 (12th of 30)
Kevin Love, a 3 headed point guard rotation led by Rubio, Anthony Tolliver, and….
Tolliver at the 3 might be the best way to make it click in the short run with Williams and Love at the 4/5.
Yep
The turnovers remain the bugaboo. Note that both the Ortg and the Drtg are in the upper half of the league (though opponents will start shooting 3s better).
Tonight should be interesting. Memphis played last night, no Z-Bo. Wolves have a chance to consolidate the last couple of games. Rubio has a chance to trash talk someone in Spanish and have him understand.
I expect no real consistency this year, largely based around your question of where the other above average production is going to come from on a nightly basis. But they are positioned to do something over the next week that could be more fun than we’ve had in years.
…Or not.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 4, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
I just love watching this team.
…and I think a big reason for the high turnovers but high shooting percentage is that they are constantly trying to get the ball to high risk high reward locations.
They've been close to that the last two nights anyway.
Look at all of the open looks our PGs are getting for shooters, and it’s all because the opponent is terrified of the Rubio effect.
Look how many rebounds Love gets even though every opponent knows they need to try to stop him from doing that! We’ve had some good play from other players, but if we can get above-replacement value at the 2, 3, and (less-importantly in my mind) 5, then we need to do it.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 2, 2012 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Putting things in perspective
PF/C rotation (Love, D-Will, Darko, Tolliver) is fine, no tweaks are needed there. We probably couldn’t afford A.Randolph after this year and he has trade value, so he will go anyway. Tolliver need to be extended (Barea-like contract probably). Pekovic is too expensive for 5th big, play him a little to increase his trade value and ship him out. League and next draft is full of PFs – finding 5th big for cheap will be easy. With Love’s max, Darko+D-Will+Tolliver (together probably 14-14.5M$ next season) we simply couldn’t put more money into bigs (it is already 30+M).
On SF position we have Beasley, Wes and Webster coming back from injury. We will see could Webster play after back surgery and Beasley is wild card. Wes trade value is low currently. If Webster could play, he and Wes could fill minutes on SF, if not we need veteran there in addition to Wes. Or we could continue with this Beasley experiment (I live in hope it will end soon). Wes+Webster together cost 10M$ next year.
On PG with Rubio, Ridnour, Barea – we have enough bodies (together 12.3M next year). Ridnour is little expensive for 3rd PG (and he will be exactly that a the end of season).
SG is the only position that we are really bad – Barea could fill some minutes there (with problems on defense), Elington is just insurance policy, Lee will probably develop into Elington-level quality, Wes and Webster are SFs. All of them could be only fillers behind starting SG that is really missing. If we want to have balanced team we need to spend ~10M per on this position.
We will probably roll with what we have today, try to stay around 50% wins and evaluate more Beasley and Randolph until trade deadline. At this time there will be teams that are tanking – hopefully starting SG veteran will be available for cheap (for example Memphis 1st rounder, A. Randolph and Miller’s practically expiring contract). Or some other combination with Pekovic, Beasley in the mix. And Webster if he couldn’t play (become expiring contract).
It looks to me that we have full PF/C rotation, are full on PG, are 30% full on SG (Barea’s minutes), and in the worst case 50% full on SF (probable outcome here is Beasley traded, Wes develop enough to earn his salary and either Webster or some veteran for 5-6M per sharing minutes with him).
by andromeda on Jan 3, 2012 2:25 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Good post
I hate, absolutely hate games like this by Beasley. He does enough things right that I think he’s figuring it out, then he plays terribly the next 3 games before having another good one. I’m crossing my fingers that this is the Adelman effect but I’ve been burned before.
I'm a big Beasley guy and I'm cautious
But I’ve got hope.
I also think both Beasley and Wes benefited from Adleman leaving them in with Rubio this game (which is something that hasn’t always happened)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Good post, however I'm tired of the under valuing of Ridnour.
Guy just put up 19 points and 9 assists. He was the fourth best 3 pt shooter in the league last year.
Granted he is not the perfect point, but he is probably the best back-up point in the league.
(sorry, the Ridnour thing is directed at everyone more than just you Andro as you did not say anything that off about him)
He was a very productive, undersold part of Milwaukee's turnaround in Jennings's rookie year.
The guy is a solid backup, though. Not the PG who establishes your offense.
"Opinion ...a confession."
.....but
he could start on a team with other high level players. We saw last night how he did just fine with Beasley, Love, and Wes making shots and making plays. I don’t think you can ever have enough competent shooters. The guy is a top 5-10 shooter from 20 feet out.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 3, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure you've written about this before
but is it time for another “next move” post? Something that proposes a realistic trade scenario (whether or not it’s likely to happen) whereby we acquire a 3 and/or a 5 that can help us to achieve completedom?
i'm working on a follow up to the love post
i don’t think they need to trade d-will; rather, he is just the best asset for the firesale that will likely happen in a month or so. phoenix, orlando, gsw…there are some teams that should offer up a good player. i’d love for the wolves to make this happen without giving up williams, but we’ll have to wait and see.
He is fitting right in
I presume your analysis will attempt to come to grips with his improved rebounding?
I don't know if I would support a deal
that has a losing Williams. He is just a complete monster. I know that we kind of have a ton of forwards on this team but I do not want to lose his energetic and effective play.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
Really likedwhat I saw from Beas tonight...
played with heart, and on D. Still the trade-able asset IMO though. For the 2, that is.
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
by LoveLovesLove on Jan 3, 2012 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
Yup
For some reason, even though he played great, I wouldn’t mind him being the piece to go. The question is if he can keep his value up by consistently giving performances like this.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
agreed
I love rooting for Beasley, but if he can bring more competent help at the 2,3, or 5, yeah, let him go.
Ideally we unload some combo of Beas, Wes, Pek, Ridnour, Miller, even Ridnour
All expendable assets if we can get a 2. A real 3 and/or 5 would also be great.
Note that I did not include Darko in that list – amazingly, he’s got the basic competence to at least be a backup … unless someone Gortat-level is available.
if you can move Ridnour twice
I’d vote for you for GM of the year. :)
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
There and Back Again
A Minnesota Timberwolves Adventure
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:32 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Nice.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:39 AM CST up reply actions
+ many for the LOTR reference
The first Ridnour should have read Randolph. I confused them because, you know, they’re so similar.
something that would involve too many moving parts to actually work
but might make sense for all involved (may have to tweak a few things to get the salaries to work)
Magic get: Andrew Bynum, Luis Scola, Derrick Williams
Lakers get: Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, Michael Beasley, Goran Dragic
Rockets get: Pau Gasol
Wolves get: Kevin Martin, pick from Houston
by mr. eggplant on Jan 3, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting trade
would the rockets really give up Martin + Scola + pick for an aging (though great) big man? I would drop the pick from that equation as Martin is a good return on Williams.
It's the package they were willing to give up
in the nixed CP3 to the Lakers deal. It may have been a second round pick in that deal, I don’t remember.
That move was assuming
they could pick up Nene as well
Why would the Wolves do this?
Kevin Martin does not have that kind of value, especially at his salary.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 3, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Gettting Martin is not worth giving the Lakers Howard
Eff that. We already gave them a team.
Because the Wolves
1) Need to convince Love to stay
2) Have other decent big men
3) Have nobody on the wing
An Adelman coached team with Love, Martin, and Rubio has the potential to be the best offense in the league.
This would result in essentially destroying the team’s depth while still having the added bonus of keeping Wes Johnson in an important role. If you are actually concerned that Love will leave, giving away the guy with the best chance to replace his production seems like a poor idea as well.
Regardless, you could make the same arguments for trading Williams and Beasley for Rashad McCants. Martin simply isn’t worth that package.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 3, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
One trade isn't going to fix all of the Wolves problems, agreed
I guess it depends on what you think Derrick Williams’ potential is. If you think he’s a star, you probably don’t do the deal. I see him as an 18-8 guy with average defense. That’s valuable, but not untouchable, especially when you have a 25-15 guy who plays the same position.
In addition, for whatever reason, there are a lot more good power forwards in the league now than shooting guards. How many shooting guards are better than Martin right now? Wade, Kobe, Manu, Iggy, maybe Gordon or Harden…there aren’t a lot (and Martin is better than Ray Allen by now). Because of this, you’ll have to overpay for a good shooting guard right now.
Martin is a bad defender, but he’s an elite offensive player. Last year, in a Rick Adelman offense, he averaged 26 points/36 minutes with a TS% of .601. Compared to the rest of the NBA, that’s 9th in usage, and 10th in true shooting.
Although it’s not like this deal is going to happen anyway :P
Well said
Even if you think he’s a star 20/12 guy, when you have 25/15 at that position and can get a very very good SG (your weakest position) + a draft pick it’s probably a good idea. Look at what we got for Al and he was an established 20/10 guy.
I thought that Ridnour was the better PG last night
which seems ridiculous after last season, passing is contagious.
Agreed.
However, the unjustified Ridnour bashing will continue.
if you mean Al Horford
I still think he’s a great player, just a notch below KLove level (top 20 rather than top 10 talent)
=)
(yes I understood which Al you meant)
I was at the game tonight
Love is a boss, Rubio is our savior, everyone played well. I lost my shit when Rubio ooped it to D-Will.
#2 on ESPN's
Top Ten Plays of the Day.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Here's a prediction:
Rubio becomes the most popular player in the NBA.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
He's the polar opposite of people's impression of LBJ
That can’t hurt at the moment. Bron is so disliked, I almost like him
How can you hate the large, formerly-pudgy,
rebounding white kid who’s the nephew of a Beach Boy and has no attitude or arrogance to speak of?
The Lebron comparisons are ridiculous for this reason alone – Love would NEVER make a “Decision” like that. It’s not even a debate.
Love does have a tad of arrogance in him
But don’t we all.
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
I'm too awesome to have arrogance!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
When you play basketball like that,
you’re allowed to have that much arrogance – heck, he could have 1000 times as much and still not be in the same league as Lebron (who, by the way, is taking mental notes on all this).
LeBron doesn't actually seem that arrogant
Just misguided and, well, kind of stupid. I’m pretty sure its the people that surround him that have made him shaped his image now.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
I strongly dislike Lebron...
but I can understand where a sense of entitlement would develop from being called King James since the age of 14.
by LosAngelesTWolf on Jan 3, 2012 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
It's a chip on his shoulder, I think.
I’m sure he’s been hated on for being slow, undersized and white at every level, and he just produces no matter what. Combine that with the fact that he clearly reads/watches a lot of sports media, and he has to be very conscious of all the doubt he’s gotten.
Love strikes me as an arrogant D-bag, who is smart enough to hide it.
However, that quality is good in a star athlete, because it means they do not wilt under pressure.
See Jordan, Kobe, etc.
Love seems like kind of a douche (pardon my french) from past interviews
I’m guessing his press team has told him to cool it over the last year or so, because he’s been handling himself much better publicly.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:07 AM CST up reply actions
It amuses me
when I take a shower and I look at the body wash bottle that says “gel douche.” And then I giggle like a seven-year-old because the French have such a goofy language.%
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
Wasn't aware douche meant anything in French
I mean, I totally knew douche meant something in French
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
In French it's a noun
meaning “shower.” The Wikipedia tells me so.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
The french have a word for shower!?
by zero_on_up on Jan 3, 2012 12:25 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Ba-dum! Crash!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
"wass ees thees?"
“chow-her?..for why do you make eet raieen een the bidet? Eef ah weesh to ahmpress ze ladeez, ah weel sihmply take one beet uhv deez fhragrant oil, ahnd eet wheel chover uhp mah most mellifluous, eh, ohdeurs..”
by zero_on_up on Jan 3, 2012 12:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why does that remind me
of these guys?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:50 AM CST up reply actions
i didn't click the link yet
And I already know it is the french guys in. the castle from monte python:-) hampsters and elderberries = 2012 Timberwolves opponents
There goes
the element of surprise . . .
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:56 AM CST up reply actions
We've ended up as the team getting highlighted plenty of times...
It’s weird to be on this end of it.
LOL- FAR too true.
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
by LoveLovesLove on Jan 3, 2012 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
So the epitome of fun doesn't exist?
(kudos on the Baudrillard reference)
Architecture and postmodern philosophy in the same wrap thread
Gotta love CH.
Welcome to Lob Tundra! -dan_the_man
Me too.
I was at the game last night as well, and I think I lost my shit when Rubio got that block on Green’s breakaway. F’ing badass.
Wait, what?
You went home with brown underwear? :P
Was at the game tonight as well
Great fun to watch, until the fourth quarter. About that time, it turned into an inhouse basketball game.
Great game for Beasley. My favorite moment of the night was that block by Rubio at the end of the third. On that topic, it was good to see the team win in a game where Rubio wasn’t playing all that well.
Finally, its a really weird feeling to see the other team completely choke at the end of the game. The Spurs were given a ton of chances to come back in the fourth, but just threw up brick after brick after brick. Its good to be on the other side of things for once.
For once the rim wasn't kind to our opponents
Was a tad ugly in the 4th. We’ll get better though. I thought Rubio looked a little tired (still played great). He’s not used to back to backs and all these minutes.
by Rodman99 on Jan 2, 2012 11:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
So true. I wondered why he's often bent over gasping
I thought it was because he’s physically AND mentally running this team (which is still true), but the NBA schedule this year is just brutal.
This
Actually, I thought the hole team looked tired in the fourth.
Adelman really tightened up the rotation in the 2nd half
He milked Love and Beasley. He really wanted the W. I think on a long-ish homestand with a day of rest today he did the right thing.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 3, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
I felt like he was just in the lab experimenting. “If I hold off on bringing in Rubio, how does the team react?” “How do these guys handle fatigue on the court?”
by Ray Williams? on Jan 3, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
He didn't need Rubio in the 2nd half
Our starting unit was getting it done big time. It was good to see for a change.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 3, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
Luke, especially, had a great game.
He didn’t do anything out of the ordinary with one exception: no long jumpers early in the shot clock prior to any ball movement. It was all within the execution of the offense.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
he definitely played within himself. It helps when the other starters are on their A-games. Then he doesn’t have to try to force things.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 3, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
We could have gifted them back in the game
Lawd knowz, we’ve seen it before.. 4th q., The spurs were fighting thru their arthritis to get back in it. At this early point in the season, the spurs are quite high in the “power rankings”. I thought the wolves held the lead in a controlled, smart fashion (odd turnovers notwithstanding). It was so good to see, I nearly lost my voice.. Gimme more in house 4th quarters!:-)
..and many of those bricks were forced by us..
Darko played many good defenses this night.. he is who we thought he could perhaps feasibly be?
I think he's finally been put into position to have success
No more running the offense through him, he just finishes when he needs to and plays good D. It was also good for him hitting that second hook after his airball, lord knows he would have mentally lost it if he missed that.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 2, 2012 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
And he & pek
Have plenty of time on the bench to wave up into the stands, at someone I could not identify. Unless it was the 14 year old kid whose voice just changed, yelling his name for the better part of the first half
I want to see Pek get some minutes
Anyways, one of my siblings has a coworker who is Serbian, and apparently Darko and Pek have a huge group of Serbs/Montenegrins in the cities that they routinely hang out with/throw parties for. Kind of awesome.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
I think pek is injured?
He should see the court. Nice to know we can still add him and maybe webster to the mix
He has supposedly been available for the last two games
They’re probably just resting him until he’s fully ready…
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
Unfortunately
I think Pek’s only role on this team is to be the designated enforcer/post defender when Darko is in foul trouble. Adelman really likes to go small with this team, and Pek’s best skill post scoring doesn’t really fit in with our pick and roll offense.
I saw Pek
Last night at a restaurant after the game. His agent was circling the tables asking any and all women if they wanted to join Pek at his table. No joke. He was up to 6 or 7 joiners when I left.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on Jan 3, 2012 10:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
+10
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Did any of the women
vaguely resemble this guy?

Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Jan 3, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Very
good.
I am on the rebound, you know.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I really wish some barkeep would start a site with player pickup lines overheard
We missed out on Marko so we’re past the glory days, but this Pek news give me hope we could still be entertained.
He and his wife
are so certainly going to have the most beautiful dimwitted children in the world.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Jan 3, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I remain perplexed
How a guy who entered the game looking like he just woke up from spending a night sleeping behind a dumpster snared a world famous fashion model. He always reminded me of a guy I knew who lived alone with his mother til she died when he was 30 and he never learned to dress himself or comb his own hair.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 3, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
It's happened before . . .

"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 6:58 PM CST up reply actions
Except for the way over combed hair,
pictures of Rod Stewart and Penny Lancaster would be gut-busting examples here. Are we all just a few million dollars short of being players?
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 3, 2012 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
How about lyle lovett and julia roberts?
Now that provides hope to all men.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 4, 2012 7:39 AM CST up reply actions
Looking at that picture, I think, "Turn off the smile, Christie!"
It’s gotten worse with Facebook. The number of women you see with the same dry-toothed, insincere smile in every photo, I mean. (Shudder.)
"Opinion ...a confession."
My favourite line is
“Does this [rag, napkin, whatever] smell like chloroform to you?”
In one instant you find out if she has any semblance of intelligence and if she has a reasonable sense of humour.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Let us know where that's happening.
I’d love to “accidentally” show up to one of those.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:12 AM CST up reply actions
Damn.
Too short and too old. The same reasons I can’t be a ballerina.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah.
I’m kind of regretting naming it “Dancer’s Hip,” though.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Also
Did anyone else see Darko’s moving screens in the first half? There was a possesion when he shuffled back in forth in pick form twice, and didn’t get anything called on him. Hilarious.
I noticed that too
It’s nice for the calls/noncalls to go our way for once.
by MrBungle85 on Jan 2, 2012 11:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Good point.
Don’t disregard that the questionable-to-outrageous calls may actually have evened out over the past few games.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Or his assistants?
Or to his players?
Writing “Stops” won’t do it.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
Even if you write it in capitals?
And maybe with an exclamation mark?
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 3, 2012 1:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The exclamation point might do it.
Wait. Did Rambemort use exclamation points?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:30 AM CST up reply actions
Psssh just one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
It was crazy!
Several times I braced for the whistle. He’s gotta be careful.
by Darth Paxton on Jan 2, 2012 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
I noticed the Darko moving screens as well...
He looked like an awkwardly tall 6th grader who had been coerced into trying basketball for the first time. I think Ricky’s in his head.
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
I do as well
what is wrong with us, haven’t we learned??
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:25 AM CST up reply actions
Haha, you are right
We should really take this one step at a time, and enjoy each win and breakthrough…
HOWEVA, I’m calling playoffs, right now.
I'm not gonna 'call' it.
But it’s certainly not far-fetched, and I’d call it a “goal” for the season.
Which was pretty much unfathomable a week or two ago. This is insane.
Pops
You’re right about Wes, he needs to board, get to the rim a bit, defend…but do you need to rip him when he has a good (could be bettr) game?
Chill. Dr. Adelman (dr frankenstein) is not done!
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 2, 2012 11:50 PM CST reply actions
Isn't it fun?
I have three teams this season…4th, 5th, and 6th.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 2, 2012 11:55 PM CST up reply actions
Coach the
orphanage team.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
by PoorDick on Jan 2, 2012 11:59 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I almost swallowed my tongue
laughing at that one. Kudos.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Gotta watch out
for those nuns tho’ they can be bruttel
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
I reffed soccer for a while and 11 year old girls games were the worst.
Some of the kids couldn’t kick it out of the 18 yard box on goal kicks, yet the parents yelled at you like it was the World Cup.
And I knew a bunch of the parents so if I kicked anyone out of the game I had to here about it for weeks.
Parents need some sort of positive thing to do.
Classic case where positive reinforcement might be useful. You’re sitting there in your lawn chair – de rigueur equipment for the soccer parent – and having this terrible vicarious experience, wincing every time your kid’s legs fall out from under her (because you’re yelling her name, thinking you’re urging her on)…. We need to give the parents a bell to ring, or games to play. Something to do with their hands.
It’s surprising that opium dens haven’t sprung up.
"Opinion ...a confession."
That would give the term "Soccer Mom"
a new and interesting connotation.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Try 2-4 grade basketball.
The kids can’t dribble or avoid fouling. Parents, for some reason, want fouls called, resulting in free throws, which the kids can’t hit, and since there is a running clock, the actual playing time gets cut down to almost nothing. Basically, the parents want their kids watching other kids miss free throws for an hour.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 3, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is where I'm at
Nobody can dribble or shoot a shot that can clear a normal rim. They run around like an amoeba and have no concept of positions or spacing. To address this, I had them play without a ball for a scrimmage and one of the parents almost lost it. “How are they going to learn without a ball?!” Ugh.
Run and gun.
Fast breaks create instant spacing, and then put backs on the on inevitable miss of the layup. Plus, parents love it.
Do they learn the fundamentals? Nope. But most won’t play past middle school anyway, so why not have some fun?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Initiate contact! Elbows out! Stop that crying!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
I would have mad respect
if you coached 2-4th graders like this
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I've sent Dave Berri
video of my daughter’s first grade games. I expect to see a write-up fairly soon.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
These comments would be
a vast improvement over what is provided by Soccer Parents at this stage:
KICK IT! KICK IT! KICK IT! KICK IT! KICK IT! KICK IT! GOOD JOB, MCKENNA! KICK IT! KICK IT! KICK IT! Okay that’s the half—who wants a GoGurt?
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Lordy
I know about that one, too. The middle kid is really, really into soccer. Some of the things that get yelled make me hate freedom. Really, really hate freedom.
lol
My favorite quote was a parent was yelling to his 10 or 11 year-old daughter, “Be an animal! Be an animal!”
We have one parent..
…who does nothing but yell his daughter’s name every 15 seconds. He does it by emphasizing the 2nd syllable of her name and he drags it out.
ray – CHALLLLLL!!! (pause) ray-CHAALLLLLL!!! (pause) repeat over and over.
I think little Rachel is powered by yells.
when I kill them the voice stops
but after a few days it comes back, ray — CHALLLLLL! (pause) ray — CHALLLLL! …
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
Also...
…I don’t think it is possible to hold a girls soccer game without a McKenna. I think it is in the bylaws. Skyler is the backup in case McKenna is sick.
Keep it light
and enjoy these times with the kids. Mine are all grown up and I love who they’ve become but I really miss those years.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 3, 2012 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
Well, yeah.
Here’s my best way to diffuse them if you are playing games.
I survey all of my players. I ask them how many minutes out of a 32 minute game they think they should play.
There are 160 possible minutes. The cumulative total is usually around 260 for what the kids think. I tell the parents your kids want to play 260 mnutes out of a possible 160. At any given time I expect several of you to be unhappy with me. It is incredibly diffusing.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
Good idea.
Also! Tell them if they play good defense they get minutes. To them, “playing good defense” means chasing your man all around the court, which usually gets them so pooped that they beg to come off the court for a break.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
So true
I tell my players…if you ask to come out, I’ll ask you when you are ready to go back in. If I have to take you out…..well, good luck.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
Here's the other way I diffuse them
Parents always say " oh my kid makes one mstake and you take them out!" or, “damn! He’s playing great and you take him out!”
I tell them… If your child is playing well I can’t take them out. If they’re playing poorly I can’t take them out. The only way I can take them out is if they are injured!!
It works.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
Adelmen has worked magic
With 2 pre-season games plus 5 regular season games. He’s more Zen-master than the Zen-Master
by Rodman99 on Jan 3, 2012 12:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Come on, SnP!
Wes has a great night and you STILL need to be critical of him in the recap? Give the man his due tonight (without the "but"s)!
by JesusCat on Jan 2, 2012 11:53 PM CST via mobile reply actions
If 14 points,
2 rebounds, 1 assist, and 1 steal in 30 minutes constitutes a “great” night for Wes Johnson, he should be released immediately.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Agreed
I would have been a lot more impressed if he was scoring off put-backs, post-ups, cuts, etc., Offensively he’s as one dimensional as Steve Novak and Jason Kapono, but not nearly as proficient in that one dimension.
Yeah, I remember when the Jason Kapono comparison was made last year
It was depressingly accurate.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
It was a great night for him, though. Can't be mad at 6-of-6.
It’s world’s better than the past 3 games.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
He shot as well as he could have.
As for the rest, I’d have to go to the video to make a judgement.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
He had a sweet feed to darko,
After ditching his defender off the catch..i guess that was the assist..but it was rad!
Thank you Tim
It was a great night for Wes. There were some tough shots he made too. We won by 10 pts, so those 14 obviously helped.
by Rodman99 on Jan 3, 2012 12:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I will not tolerate
soft bigotry.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
I'm a big fan of giving Wes time to figure it out.
But, the guy has to prove it on D and rebounding. He can control that. He can’t control how well he shoots every night, but he can control running back on D. When he does that consistently he’ll be in the conversation for a starting 2-3 for us.
I love ping pong balls!!
I'm not saying I want to put him into the Hall of Fame because of tonight
but if its between tonight’s Wes and last night’s Wes, I’ll gladly take this one.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
he did good
No reason to think he couldn’t bring it every night, yet. He seemed more in tune with the team..or maybe that’s the shot % talking
everytime they zoomed in on him
He looked like a kid who wanted validation from his parents/peer group/whomever for hitting his shot. That’s not a good mental state for an NBA player. I think Darko’s in a better place mentally right now.
OK, it was a very good, not a great performance
But my point stil holds. If it was any other player on the team that wasn’t deemed “worthless” that went 6 for 6 tonight, it would have warranted a compliment in the recap. But the post just sounds like he would rather see Wes fail to prove himself right than to see him succeed. Quibbling about not getting to the free throw line? Come on! I don’t expect a Wes lovefest. Just give credit where credit is due. :)
by JesusCat on Jan 3, 2012 12:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
He shot
well. But there are several “Who he play for?” guys having nights like Wes had right now. And Wes had bursts of awesomeness last year (I was at the Laker game), only to follow up with several nights of drifting around the court. When he started this season looking bad and playing statistically worse, I don’t think you can blame fans for dismissing one fantastic shooting night as an anomaly,
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Really, any shooting wing in the NBA
Has the potential to do what Wes did last night. Value is determined by consistency. I used to see this argument all the time for Foye, who just couldn’t hit enough of his shots consistently to justify his role as a starting 2 guard in this league. In baseball there is a huge difference between a .300 and a .250 hitter, although both will have their share of 3 hit games. It takes a longer period of observation, and some actual record keeping beyond just watching, to detect that extra hit every 20 at bats.
by dropstep on Jan 3, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Coaches, with or without "deep" numbers of any kind, know this and value consistent performers.
Anthony Randolph, for example, puts up huge games sometimes. But plays only sporadically, and is derided (whose conversation with scouts was that?) as “playing like a fart in a windstorm.”
"Opinion ...a confession."
Consistency is key
but it’s nice to know that Wes isn’t completely incompetent.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Wes shot well
and you could tell it had a positive impact on him, but he really did the same thing he does most nights, which is take a combination of 6-8 deep 2s/3s. Fortunately he made them. He did more off the ball than usual tonight, and I was more encouraged by that than the 2 he made with his foot on the arc. He still needs to get better at being a + player when he doesn’t shoot 100% on the night.
I CANT PUT INTO WORDS
How much I like Adelman over Ra………puke, hack, vomit, choke.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 2, 2012 11:54 PM CST reply actions
I really, really want to post a picture of a Rhombus right now
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 2, 2012 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
In honor of Rambis,
a gray biangle appears below each comment.
by mg7505 on Jan 3, 2012 12:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Although I have no dog in this fight
I must agree with Jesus. I must.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 2, 2012 11:57 PM CST reply actions
Is that your nickname for Rubio?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
No Christianity jokes.
My resolution for you. Funny? Yes.nBut Id hate to see you burn in hell.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 12:08 AM CST up reply actions
I'd hate to see me burn anywhere.
Neverland included.%
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
Hope you're doing well CJ
This is your year.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It has to be.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
Well, keep the faith brother.
It just may be!
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
We all know how hard it is for the omnipotent savior of humanity to take a joke.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
I remember before the season started it was pretty much agreed
That we needed a good coach and Rubio needed to be basketball Jesus for this thing to work. It seems to have worked out…
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
Crazy Thought
I was expecting that Adelman would use this year to figure things out, and with a little luck that we might compete for a playoff spot. But with the Lakers, Spurs, and Mavs looking old, the Grizz looking a bit like a playoff fluke, the Clips coached by Cousin Vinny, is it just me or are one good wing away from being dangerous? Anyone else tempted to be a bit more aggressive in what looks to be a down year in the West?
(I reserve the right to change my opinion if Rubio starts to look like a rookie and if Darko stops playing like a more efficient Kendrick Perkins).
Cousin Vinny.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can see the light
But there’s the 4th quarter closing out games thing that needa to be sifted out. Getting the roles down.
My prediction. Derrick Williams turns into one of our cluch scorers the 2nd half of the year. Then we have a pool of Love, Beas, DW and Rubio to close out games, going with the hot hand.
by Rodman99 on Jan 3, 2012 12:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's where Ellis should come in to play. Or Kevin Martin.
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
by LoveLovesLove on Jan 3, 2012 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
I know Martin is more efficient
but you say Ellis and I just start fantasizing of Monta leaping rimward on the break for an oop.
I kinda have to agree
We don’t necessarly need efficiency, we just need a stone cold killa at the 2. I like Monta for the a little better.
Regardless, I would wait till next year to go in big on a wing player. If something falls into our lap, no complaints. I just don’t think there is a hurry to trade all our chips or break the bank just to get a goo 2 on the team this year.
For all the Chucker flack that Monta gets
his assist stats are awesome this year
Monta,
has had, and has now a few off the court issues that might make Kevin Martin a better veteran presence.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 3, 2012 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
I think we all get really excited
And want the wing now,
but the likelihood that we trade for the right SG now, I don’t believe is very likely.
What I do believe is likely, however is that we wait this thing out and hopefully attack the off-season looking for 2’s. The draft is loaded with them (not that they will be our savior…..but finding a young, productive 2 in the middle of the draft is almost a guarantee if you follow such things), or we that might be the time to pool some resources (I.e. Beasley establishes himself as a 3 to build around, Adleman agrees so you package Williams/Wes/Ridnour for a 2)
I ask for a little bit of patience….we’re not gonna win the title this year one way or the other, and honestly there is an outside chance we make the playoffs this year one way or the other
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Or
poach a decent vet SG from a team that drafts an exciting young 2 and wants to clear playing time for him. Probably a lower cost and more certainty.
I’m still all for going after a vet SG this year, but I’m hesitant to give up Williams unless the player is pretty damn good. I waffle on that one a bit.
yep
I agree.
No to Martin yes to Iggy for Williams imo.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Maybe to Ellis
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
say what?
Ellis is damn good SG as is Martin but neither is a good defender. What exactly is it about Ellis that you would like that is not ok in Martin? He has far more assists / 36 but other than that Martin is just the more efficient player and it’s not close.
I think you're gonna need a volume guy
I did say “maybe” haha
but I think kind of a perfect roster imo would be 4 high efficiency low usage players and then have one preferably wing (since plays generally break down on the wing) more of a efficient volume scorer, but not as worried about efficiently as I am about their ability to get whatever shot they want or need.
If Beasley is the 3 Adleman wants to commit too I don’t think you go for either Martin or Ellis and you either look at Iggy or drafting one of the better defensive/efficient minded SGs
I would feel fairly bitter sweet if we traded Williams for Ellis, but also the fact that Ellis is younger and more athletic than Martin I think also makes me at least more comfortable with his long-term viability as a trading partner. Maybe we can get GS to throw in Ekpe Udoh as well for Wes.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
To tag onto my point
If you trade Williams it needs to be a trade that also considers the long-term viability of the franchise. I don’t love the idea of trading him for players closing in on 30, I would make an exception to Iggy because A) almost everything we need help with he provides, and B) I think his game has a little more length in his career than Martin (He’s younger and his body is built to take a beating a lot better).
If the Wolves trade Williams I think 26 is probably the oldest they should consider. Their best player is 23 and their second best player is 21…..I think finding that 3rd piece that can triage a 6-7 run of dominance is the right way to go.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
". . . we’re not gonna win the title this year one way or the other . . ."
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
It's going to be a flukey year.
Short training camp.
Only 2 preseason games
Back to back to backs
Averaging a game every 1.9 ish days
Only 66 games
I"m not a betting man, but this would be the year for crazy things to happen. Seriously I think what a broken wrist early to Manu or another sprained ankle to Curry could mean to a team in this shortened mess.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I'm glad all the crazy "bad" things
will only happen to other teams.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
Yep, no one comes out unscathed
Lee knee
Pekovic Groin
Barea hammy
Beasley shooting hand finger
And we wouldn’t be out of preseason yet in a normal year.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Still Waiting
for the Sophmore injury but then again Wes is the Sophmore so it should have minimal affect on the team…
Waiting for Relevancy...
Can we get some Darko love in this game?
I know +/- is a flawed stat, but Darko was almost 10 points ahead of anyone else on the team. He makes a real difference on D against this kind of team, and allowed us to maintain the lead. He’s getting better and better as we go along. I think RA just might turn the island of misfit toys into a unit that maximizes our talent. I couldn’t be more excited about what this team looks like halfway through the season.
I love ping pong balls!!
Darko played well tonight.
That early lefty hook sucked, but I guess it’s been a while. He had to get it out of his system. Darko checked Duncan pretty effectively.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
I was a bit surprised
Rick didn’t give Darko a bit of run in the 4th. Love looked like he could use a two minute break, and Tolliver was having some trouble with Splitter. Not a big deal obviously, but I’m guessing we’ll need him in the 4th one night.
Look at the past games against SA (last year)...
Darko was a beast, and shut down Duncan consistently. Not surprised, albeit slightly underwhelmed tonight.
Lots of chatter from the SA announcers: “Darko is quite a presence with those long arms and solid D”, etc. talk. Agreed.
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
by LoveLovesLove on Jan 3, 2012 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
Darko rolled his ankle on his last bucket.
Thats why he was out.
I disagree
I don’t think he’ll consistently give you 36mpg but he plays effective ball for probably 20-25 minutes each night.
He had 2 rebounds
and was a complete non-factor under the rim and on boards on both sides of the ball. Think about it, when you ever were able to say that about him? Now he just shoots long twos and passes from the high-post. That’s not his game.
He's always been good at passing and hitting 10-15 footers
He was a bit further out than I’m used to seeing him, but I disagree that he doesn’t protect the rim or rebound. It’s not at the levels he used to be but for a guy his age, he’s quite productive and still the Spur’s best option at the 4 or 5.
I didn't say he's bad at it
it’s just not his game, and it’s not what made him who he is in this league. And Love, Darko and Beas went in the paint at times like Duncan wasn’t there. Even last year he wouldn’t stand for that. Shit, Tim averages 10 and 5 in the season so far on 40% from the field. That’s just bad, anyway you slice it.
if you read the thread on PtR from yesterday
They’re claiming that his role is mostly due to the offense changed last year to make them more of a run and gun team. Which honestly is probably Pop adjusting to an aging Duncan. You’re probably right but I’d hate to see the league lose one of it’s good guys. As much as I dislike Manu’s flopping, I love Duncan so I’m probably quite biased. That said, I expect the 40% to change as he was just stone cold from the field and I think that’s small sample size.
As much as my friends love the Spurs, the hangdog timmy face kills it for me.
One of my least favorite teams to watch in the league, even though I like them fine on paper.
Parker and Duncan with the “who me? I’m just an innocent mopey puppy” look.
Manu with the crazy flopping.
I still cannot ever understand this.
He makes a face? KG screamed “MF” so all the world could hear. Players much, much more demonstrative than Duncan get no flak at all. Me no get.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Mandatory
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/tim-duncan-releases-decade-worth-of-pentup-emotion,2069/
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Mine from last year:

"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Tim Donekin
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 3, 2012 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
i'm trying to be excellent to each other, I'm really trying
but this seems like one of the most myopic comments on a game recap I’ve read in a long long time (on the Spurs’ sbn page):
“I thought we played as well as necessary. Any other night, the Spurs would have won that game by 15. Minnesota simply made more shots than they should have tonight”
of course later in the recap, these words were said:
" I think this is a championship caliber team. A champion would find a way, and I think the Spurs will."
so perhaps there really isn’t much point in going over this.
On the other hand, I really really hate the Spurs.
"Can someone please help me out, who did wolves pick, doesnt look too positive around here"
by Rasho Revolution on Jan 3, 2012 12:14 AM CST reply actions
Even when Radislav played for them?
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
I dunno mad, its kind of hard to hate any team that has Duncan and Ginobli
Duncan is possibly the nicest star to play in the NBA….Ever…And Ginobli is one of the craftiest players of the past 10 years or so.
I actually didn’t mind watching those two make great plays against us.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
I mind watching Ginobili flop against us
and although I will NEVER applaud anyone getting hurt, I couldn’t help but think “karma!” when he broke his hand hacking us.
Yeah his flops were pretty garbage
But its still really funny to watch, because you and I know he’s a flopper, and everyone on the court, including his teammates, know he’s a flopper, and yet he still gets the calls. Unstoppable.
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 3, 2012 12:24 AM CST up reply actions
I like Duncan, even though he's boring.
I can come close to hate for Ginobili, though. Every time he touches someone he flails like an extra in the Matrix. He’s using theater to influence an athletic contest. I know plenty of players do, but not usually so egregiously.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:26 AM CST up reply actions
D-Fish...
is all the acting without all the awesome stuff that Ginobili does. I hate the flopping too, but I find Ginobili very fun to watch because of his creativity and unique game.
No flop is better than this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ukde193ivM&feature=related
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
Do they have a special flop coach in SA?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:42 AM CST up reply actions
no
they just watch a lot of Argentine Soccer.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
Winner!
For not even being touched, and not even deciding to flop until well after the phantom elbow, the winner is (for me at least) Chris Bosh!
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 3, 2012 2:58 AM CST up reply actions
I was trying to decide a winner,
but every time I put one of these videos up against another, they both flopped … and my browser crashed.
by mg7505 on Jan 3, 2012 3:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
For a second I thought he was just going to go straight over backwards.
Now that woulda been dedication to flopping.
Live And Stupid From England
I love JVG
best color guy in sports for my money. He called that right away.
In the same way that a nuclear explosion is beautiful.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
Flagged
for liking Ginobli. some one needs to go to every game he plays and hold a sign that says “soccer teams in Argentina take flopping lessons from Ginobli,” or some such. Ref’s need to start doing hteir jobs and give him a TK every time his back touches the floor. Nothing makes me hate a player more then flopping, and there is no player that flops more often then Ginobli. that broken finger he suffered last night was Karma.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 3, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
You don't hate them as much as I hate the Heat.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 3, 2012 2:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm happy to see us get 2 of the 34 wins I predicted tonight.
Honestly, to start this season, I didn’t think there was much of a chance at all to start anything but 0-5 or 0-6. This coming from an optimist.
DANG this board jumps around a lot with this flood of comments!
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
We got two wins last night?
I was sure only Tim Allen could manage 34 victories in one night but we’ll get there one day.
Random question
where did SG go? Just curious.
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
Pointed question.
Is SG a person or a thing?
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
If that's the case,
Heer I em.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 1:18 AM CST up reply actions
Nevermind
There you are!
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
Well done.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 1:18 AM CST up reply actions
Ha!
You two go outside and play hide and seek before you break somethin!
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
I wonder if
I’d be laughing this hard if it wasn’t 3:00 am.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 3, 2012 3:01 AM CST up reply actions
Did anyone else notice they got Wes' picture wrong in the opening line-up?
I think they used Courtney Lee’s as well as the number 5. You can see it at in League Pass right before tip off. I tried to publish a screenshot of it as either a fanshot or fanpost without luck, because of the whole “needs to be on the internet” deal.
Either way it is a hilarious comment on his general irrelevance, notwithstanding his perfect shooting night.
If anyone has a way to do that, I'd love the help
as it would be a perfect thing to have in our arsenal for future Wes discussions.
courtesy of illwafer
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6624714597_26416ccfa8_b.jpg
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
by GWST11 on Jan 3, 2012 1:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Who the hell makes that mistake?
Seriously.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 1:17 AM CST up reply actions
That is too funny...
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
by LoveLovesLove on Jan 3, 2012 1:20 AM CST up reply actions
Wes Johnson should request it
if it means he will keep hitting shots.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
You may have a point, there.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 1:26 AM CST up reply actions
haha it was Devin Harris
there was a screenshot of it in the game thread
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
So glad we proved our mettle again,
I shall sign off with some talking heads lyrics,
Which may or may not be from the album referenced in the post title,
Stay empty stay empty stay empty
Move and hustle move and hustle move and hustle
Competition competition competition…
Nice news to wake up to (especially as the Arsenal lost yesterday :()
Looking forward to watching the game after work.
Oh, and S-n-P, NBA Kung Fu Panda is genius.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 3, 2012 2:04 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Oh, and I see ATL beat the Heat.
Nice.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 3, 2012 2:07 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
And Dallas beat OKC.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:32 AM CST up reply actions
Watched on League Pass Broadband
- First, LPBB seems improved. The VCR-like controls actually work now – FFing a little bit moves to the correct part of the game unlike last year. The feed also seemed pretty high definition – much better than last year. Not sure if that is an abberation due to having the Spurs feed or what.
- Darko’s defense on Duncan was pretty bad. He left him open for made jumper after made jumper.
- Luke’s offense was really important in this game. Rubio’s shot was off and Luke made some timely baskets.
- I liked the way Beasley played better today. Drove into the paint and made some nice passes.
- Tolliver really helps settle down the defense. Makes good rotations and puts hands up straight.
- Love was just ripping the ball away from strong guys like Blair. Dude’s hands are so strong.
- Adelman called some good timeouts when the Wolves hadn’t yet yakked up the lead but were starting to play in a ragged way. They really ate clock on the 4th quarter, going deep into the shot clock over and over.
- The SA announcers were quite complementary, remarking several times on the depth and length of the Wolves roster. Sounded very Kahnsian.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
I've been checking out the free LPBB too
It does seem improved, and so far all the Wolves games have been in that quasi-HD quality. It seems their best quality is somewhere between actual HD and SD, but it turns out nice. I connect it to my flatscreen, and it still looks good.
I leave it on the 'best available' setting, seems ok.
Interface is same as last year, which is a shame as its not the most user-friendly.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 3, 2012 8:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'd replace Darko with...
Williams or Beas if it’s a good Beas day
The artist formally known as Shane Heal, but FORMERLY known as Blakeley
You might be talking about the best lineup
I still like Darko starting. Sets a good tone, and we get to start off with a little extra intreior D
Duncan hadn't been hitting those shots
It’s possible the defensive gameplan was to let Duncan try and beat you from outside. He went 5 for 5 on early jumpshots, and while wide open, that is likely nto going to happen every game.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
Pounding the Rock posters' version is that Duncan is being allowed to shoot those these days.
They had a few responses to Cynical Jason’s criticizing the Wolves’, and specifically Love’s, defense on Duncan.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Wasn't Darko guarding Duncan when he was on the floor?
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
Darko
was playing solid team defense and cutting off driving lanes for Parker and others. Perhaps he could have closed out a little better on Duncan, but overall the tradeoff being made was dribble drive penetration in exchange for long two’s.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 3, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
Incidentally, currently trending now on Yahoo:
“Minnesota Timberwolves”
by HowManyFoulsOnShaq? on Jan 3, 2012 2:45 AM CST reply actions
It's early
But through 5 games, we’re seeing a huge difference in 3pt defense. Last year, the Wolves ranked 29th in opponent 3-point shots made, 30th in opponent 3-point shots attempted, and 27th in opponent 3-point percentage. This year, they rank 6th, 15th, and 6th in those categories, respectively.
They went from allowing the most 3-point attempts in the league at a an astonishing 37.4% clip to holding opponents to 27.6% on the 15th most 3-point attempts in the league. It’s a big part of our (early) improved play.
The defensive doctrine of last year was so screwed up.
Let’s see if that can hold through vaunted opponents like Wesley Matthews. Bad memories.
"Opinion ...a confession."
So far a favorite thing for me is
not having to watch the MPE (Marginal Player Explosion) night in and night out.
Ooooooo--
I’ve been looking for a good name for that phenomenon.
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
no doubt!
I hadn’t quite connected my sense of our improved defense with that refreshing fact-like statement
Yeah, that was kind of weird.
I make a comment critical of a player on my team and they rush to gainsay me. I guess the idea that Duncan wasn’t in total control of the one thing he did well last night is scary for them. Duncan’s in steep decline. I don’t doubt that he can still shoot those long twos, but there were a couple of occasions when nobody bothered to rotate to him.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't watch the game, but
it’s amazing the difference between Rubio´s stats and what his highlights say.
The best was watching Green’s face after being blocked.
I've missed seeing hustle like that
since we traded Brewer.
I was largely expecting another "Love and Rubio" coloumn
Which is kinda what we got. But props for allowing the credit to go to other players as well. Which it was a team effort, lead by Love and Ridnour actually (not as much Rubio in this one…all though he did play well)
This was a game for all us potential nut jobs to point back on two weeks from now when Beasley sticks to the mid range game and Wes reverts back to the “three point specialist who can’t hit three pointers”
It’s really an exciting time for us.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
For Wes I think it might be
He’s a shooter who hasn’t been making shots….I do buy the confidence argument.
I don’t think he’s going to be a star….but SnP is right profiling the kind of player who can help out in the NBA, active, always moving, good defensive player, excellent passer, hits open shots….I don’t see why that is unattainable even with his poor start this season and career.
For as big of a Beasley guy as I am, the doubters are all right in the sense that we’ve seen games like this before from him.
I’m a huge Beasley guy and want to give him every opportunity to succeed, but before he is a guy we can count on we need to not see just a stretch of “hot shooting” from him.
Which in fairness, this wasn’t a game I would classify as “him shooting the ball well” I was at the game and it did look like he was still a little off, but his consistently attacking the basket made up for it.
But the guy has given excellent effort all season, which is encouraging and he has surprisingly been one of their more consistent defensive players, he looked a lot more willing to pass and work within the framework of an offense which is cool.
I’m a Beasley guy and I buy the argument that we should let Adleman have a solid run with some of these players as he is 10x the coach any of these guys have ever had, but especially with Beasley the clock is ticking quickly. Each bad game is one game closer to him not being a Wolf anymore (either by trade or the fact that if he has more bad games than good ones we probably won’t resign him), and I like the guy and want to root for him and root for him for a long time. He oddly feels like the perfect Timberwolf, misfit, hard luck, wrong place at the wrong time kinda player (Miami was probably the worst team for him to go to in that draft), some of it to his own doing, sure….but he and KLove are kinda “Wolves” themselves and they are packing together here in Minnesota.
Maybe that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but it’s the way I’ve always seen the Beasley era of Wolves basketball…..and the guy wants to stay here too which is cool.
I’m rooting for him…..but he’s gotta be more consistent.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Agreed on basically all counts
My only nitpick is that Beas didn’t necessarly just get hot for one game here. SNP kind of noted it, but he was taking better, smarter shots. Now it’s debatable if the selection was more due to circumstance and less due to any ‘breakthrough,’ but being the Super-Cool apologist that I am, I feel like we are seeing some imporvments.
As you said, if anyone can get Beas on track, it’s RA. I am starting to have faith that Beas will be a positive asset to the team.
Yeah I had said
I wouldn’t classify this game for Beast as a “Hot shooting” night. I was there and sat close enough to see him kind of labor through his jump shots….His shots went in because he either took A) Open shots, or B) Shots close to the hoop.
It was an encouraging night. I would also like to see him finish a tad bit stronger, he tries to soft touch it too much for a 6’9 230 guy….he’ll get more fouls that way.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
My bad, you wrote too much for me to remember it alll, haha
But ya. Him and Wes, for such athletic, strong guys, they sure seem afraid to take it hard and get hit. Especially Beas… he has the frame of LeBron, he needs to start acting like it.
Agree to you and TO12
Want to see Beas go glass for lay-ups more.
Beas is having to find his role and niche with the team. It’s a learning process. He’s not just going to be an iso scorer anymore. He’s going to have to learn to find different kinds of shots.
Close ups of him during the Dallas game he looked down, kind of bummed out that he wasn’t doing well. Then he made a comment about his finger that it was good he got hurt, because his shooting was so bad. Beas, probably like everyone, wants to contribute and be a part of it. I expect Adelman to work wonders with him, and I’ve seen a willingness to learn.
I really like Beasley's comment too
First I had some problems with it, namely if he knows his shooting spots are idiotic to say the least, why doesn’t he give up shooting from just inside the arc?
Then I came to realize that I also do a lot of mistakes consistently that I am aware of. It’s not that easy to kill habits that became instincts.
The plus side: Beasley wants to change and he knows what to change.
Minus side: it’s extremely diffcult to change.
I’m rooting for him.
I'm actually okay with Beasley's step back from time-to-time
assuming he can hit the shot, it will open up the dribble drive more.
But I mean, I’m cool with it like 4 times a game….not 8
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Focus
Sitting at work a little unfocused thinking about Beasely’s game. People often say that his focus is part of the problem, I am interested to see what RA does about this. He is a young kid still in high school the best, in college the best and then he gets 2 unproven head coaches in the NBA. Beasley has always been able to rely on raw skill and never saw consequences for not pushing himself beyond natural ability I think RA will bring this and bring a focus to his game that we haven’t seen yet. At least I can hope!!!
Love
the Oregon god of rebounding,
If you are going to write for this blog at least get your facts straight.,
Love was born in Santa Moncia, CA. He played his college ball at UCLA.
He just happened to have had the misfortune of going to high school in Oregon.
Yeah, jeez!
Don’t you know anything? He just went to high school in Oregon! It’s not like he was ever there, or is associated with the state in any way, or played ball with Rick Adelman’s son there! Gosh!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Plus "the Santa Monica God of Rebounding"
Just doesn’t really do him justice.
but Oregon god of rebounding
sounds better than California god of rebounding. There are just soooooo many trees in Oregon. Think of all those potential boards…it’s the stuff of legend.
"My love for Jerry Kill knows no bounds." - Jeffrick
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 3, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
Something against Oregon?
Or is it just the high schools you don’t care for?
Do we change Clippergeddon to ChrisPaul-ergeddon
Anyone else think that the worst thing about the Jaric trade may be facing the Clippers and Chris Paul in the playoffs…
Well, that could be the result.
signature
Lol, let's get above .500 first
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Thought #2
Good time to sign Love to MAX when team is on high — good PR, Love may sign quicker…
Well, it’s always been a good time to sign him to MAX after last season…
signature
Agreed. Sign him now
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
It was a nice game in which most everyone played well,
but I have to learn how to enjoy these games again. I watch with more of sense of dread than anything. I’m so used to seeing them blow it, or have the “better” team turn it on just enough at the end to win, or get ripped off by a crappy “star” call, that I just keep waiting for that to happen. A few more wins ought to straighten me out.
Doesn't that almost make it more fun
when it doesn’t happen? I think, if this all goes where i think it might, I’ll miss the days where any old win was enough to get me all starry-eyed.
It depends
I didn’t think we’d beat OKC, that was fun either way, and would have been awesome if we’d pulled it out. I thought we just got ripped off (by excessive talent and the refs) against Miami, so that one made me mad. The Mavs and Spurs games both felt like we were really the better team, at least that night. It was much more of a relief than joy that we finished the job.
I agree
I felt awful both times the Mavs battled back from the double digit defecits. Even yesterday when the Spurs would cut it to less than ten I’d get the feeling we would blow and sink deeper and deeper into my chair.
by Vandelay Ind. on Jan 3, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
It is just plain weird
It’s almost like an abused dog with a new owner. It takes a while for the tail to wag.
Let's see
Wolves fans… abused dogs… tail wagging…
Yep, I can’t think of any better way to say it.
And let me add
That right now I am at work and can’t unglue me eyes from Canis Hoopus. I’ll tell you, it wasn’t like this last year.
Go Wolves.
Me too :/
Dear Lord, Beer me strength
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Just shows that Beasley
is bad to the bone.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
by Flagrant on Jan 3, 2012 10:05 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
yes haha
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Derrick Williams is an awesome offensive player
that’s all I’ve got to say about that
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I can't wait to he gets rolling
He’s got a load of skills.
dont worry yall i'm calling KAHN today and tellin him to sign Love I got dis
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jan 3, 2012 10:17 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Thank you
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Please don't tell him to smoke some
We don’t want him getting all creative on us.
No offense but...
just peeked at spurs page and they’re like a group of inbred family members that attack anything unfamiliar to them with pitchforks
(i prefaced this with no offense, which means I get to say whatever I want thereafter)
They're in mourning, as one of them said, over Manu.
Used to winning, feel entitled to it.
"Opinion ...a confession."
I'm not going to say that "entitled" comment is 100% wrong
But as the guy who runs PtR, I can tell you that’s not the way I want people behaving.
And I posted this today in order to encourage the best mindset.
Also, it wasn’t everybody over there reacting like they’d just been stabbed in the back, I’d like to think that the majority of the members in the thread last night didn’t have an issue with Cynical Jason or uofmike. Were some of the comments borderline dangerous in view of you guys winning and Manu being hurt? Probably. But I thought they were funny.
small ball will at least be bigger overall. - grego21
Pounding the Rock
The word may go a little far, "entitled,"
but honestly I don’t think your commenters can really understand what it’s like not to see a 50-plus game winner out there. There’s a different tone there.
"Opinion ...a confession."
We went through this exact same conversation after I contributed to a post with Dave from Blazer’s Edge, and he described it as a side effect of following a winning team. When you guys have three seasons in a row of 60% wins (and with this core, you will) then Bobcats fans will pop in on your threads and report back to their home blog about “the tone” that you guys have.
And this isn’t something negative. It’s just the way of things; no matter how much you say it won’t happen to you when your team experiences success.
small ball will at least be bigger overall. - grego21
Pounding the Rock
Many of us already are
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 4, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Speaking of Pitchforks
Let’s find David Thorpe…
Question: Rubio, Knight, Irving – looks like a really great infusion of point guards in the league again, yes? It’s early, but any thoughts on how they project a couple years down the road compared with the Paul, D-Will, Rose, Westbrook elite pool?
David Thorpe: I don’t see any of them reaching Rose’s level without a coach like TT, but all 3 have serious talent. Knight, to me, will be the best of the bunch 5 years from now.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
David Thorpe is awesome.
And he’s been singing Rubio’s praises this season. He’s on board.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
David Thorpe sings?
Is he a tenor? I don’t care if he’s Pavaratti Junior, he needs to be waxing poetically about Rubio, not Knight. Need. Validation. Yesterday.
Michael Beasley is a Small Forward. Derrick Williams is a Power Forward.
I like Knight from what I've seen
but making predictions 5 years old is ludicrous.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Spurs fan and PTR member here
At least you said “no offense”.
Forming an opinion on a blog after reading the recap of the game in which the team lost its best player is not wise. If you check out other articles, you’ll see that the community is great and diverse and welcoming. There are Suns, Lakers and Warriors fans who post regularly.
I don’t judge this blog by their worst elements. You shouldn’t judge PTR by how people react after losing Manu, who is worshiped there.
Anyway, I like Canis Hoopus and TimAllen’s previews rock.
"Deep down we all know that swagger comes hand in hand with insecurity. We strut not to convince competitors of our dominance; we strut to convince ourselves."
Matthew Powell
Welcome. Hope Manu gets better soon. As much as I dread watching him against us I love watching him against the rest of the league.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Agreed about Manu.
We give him shit for flopping, but I would venture to guess that almost everyone here respects the hell out of that dude’s game. I love watching him. Fingers crossed for you all.
Don't judge everyone...
…on the word of Dr. Deficate.
Sorry about manu :-(
Oh OK. Didn’t know that. The community you guys have here is awesome and I always lurk around these parts since I made the Wolves my second team (before Rubio, even). For whatever reason I like Darko and Kevin Love is just an amazing basketball player. Also, the franchise was getting berated too much and I like rooting for the underdog.
As for the Manu hate, he is used to it and most Spurs fans are used to it. 90% of the league flops and you guys have some floppers on the team too ::cough Barea cough::, but Manu is definitely more theatrical about it and has been getting away with it for so long that I can see why he is so disliked by other fanbases.
Anyway, if you ever feel like posting on PTR, I’m sure you’ll be more than welcome. We are kind of obsessed with Breaking Bad and we don’t used the subject line but other than that we are a pretty normal bunch.
"Deep down we all know that swagger comes hand in hand with insecurity. We strut not to convince competitors of our dominance; we strut to convince ourselves."
Matthew Powell
I can't talk Breaking Bad, only having started season one a couple of weeks ago.
Scary good. Bryan Cranston…. Even on Malcolm in the Middle, he was so special.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Cosign
Finally caught up on episodes, and it keeps on getting better. Stick with it, not least because of Cranston. There are some pretty stellar performers that enter into the series later on.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
It invests time in its characters, across the board, in a way actors must kill to be a part of.
Power of good writing.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Agreed. Also, the pace of the show just grabs you and doesn’t let go. It’s such an intense show, I don’t think even Kevin Garnett can handle it :)
"Deep down we all know that swagger comes hand in hand with insecurity. We strut not to convince competitors of our dominance; we strut to convince ourselves."
Matthew Powell
Kevin Garnett would have punched the son with cerebral palsy in practice.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Shoot, he'd have done it on the street as he passed!
%
small ball will at least be bigger overall. - grego21
Pounding the Rock
You nailed it
Power of good writing.
This is the foundation. And it all starts with Vince Gilligan. He built the writing team that makes the whole thing go. And the story is so great that quality people are lining up to be involved.
small ball will at least be bigger overall. - grego21
Pounding the Rock
Breaking Bad may be the best TV show of all time.
Provided people can accept the subject matter. Walt, Jesse, Skylar, Gus…. Are all so well acted and the storyline is so phenomenal that I can’t say enough good about it.
The only thing that irks me a little is that this last season should have been the final. It couldn’t have ended any more perfectly. I’m worried about next season sucking.
Didn't realize it until just now
but we’re tied for the eighth seed in the West. Granted, it’s a five-way tie but still….
What's wrong with the NBA is what's wrong with the USA: too much respect for superstars and not enough for working class heroes.
check out our upcoming schedule.
I fully expect us to be 5-4 going into next Tuesday’s tilt against Chicago.
Yep...
Memphis, Cleveland, Washington and Toronto.
All four are very winnable. It will be fun to see Kyrie vs. Ricky.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
There needs to be a "MAX LOVE NOW" post on the front page here for the next month.
by bustaone on Jan 3, 2012 11:24 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I get enough of those emails already
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
by nja700 on Jan 3, 2012 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I see what you did there.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
David Kahn smear campaign
Wojrionoski couldn’t do it alone…
..this time he brought company…
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
This is such a loaded issue
(i.e. Love’s extension) After last season and before Adelman, I’m sure Love has had some serious reservations about resigning here (heck I bet he did when we were 0-3). So do you offer him a deal as soon as you can, then he delays and the story, “Love hasn’t resigned though an offer is on the table” comes out. Much drama ensues.
Or you wait and let Adelman weigh in on the issue about Love and his worth. Plus you get a chance to see how Love fits in with Rubio and the overall team to determine his worth. Now Love shows up in crazy good shape and takes his game to the next level (actually think he’s kicked it up more than one level). Right now he’s demonstrated he worth max money.
Kahn can get ripped for a lot of things, but he’s proven adept at the contract negotiation thing. He’s very patient and waits until the right time to make his move. As many posters have said, it’s a great time to lock him up now.
I’m guessing it gets done on time.
It used to be
that a hot shooting night would keep the Wolves close to a good team, and maybe beat a bad team.
Now, it means an easy win over a Dynasty team, even when that team is also shooting well.
Very encouraging that the starters contributed more (meaning non-Love starters, since he’s a constant force).
What a likeable team this is.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Nice point
And agreed about the likeable team. At the risk of getting my head out over my skis, I wonder if they’ve got a foundation in Love/Rubio that’s potentially somewhat reminiscant of the early-aught Mavs with a young Dirk/Nash (although Nash didn’t really become an impact player until age 26). Lessons to be learned from that latter team: 1) Don’t solve your center issues by signing stiffs; 2) somehow, someway find a versatile wing who’s happy to play the third fiddle (e.g., Finley, Howard…) Maybe that’ll be D Williams, but we’ll see.
The Rubio-effect...
http://www.nba.com/statscube/team-vs-player.html#Timberwolves-vs-Ricky-Rubio|1610612750,201937;year=201112;season=r
Yeah, he’s helping a lot…
signature
In Other News of the Weird
After last night, the Wolves are currently 6th in bb-ref’s SRS, which is based off point differential and strength of schedule. I know it’s early, small samples, SOS is dicey at this point, etc….. but 6th! Just crazy talk.
I think this is another sign that Miluakee might be the expection
3 games of good production under Adleman
1 awful game under Porter
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Oh sure
I more so meant the overall feel of the game
I would have been more than okay with a well played loss against the Bucks. I don’t disrespect them at all, they’re a borderline, if not automatic playoff team in the East
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I agree with the basic premise
I don’t think Beasley sits on the floor with Adelman around.
That being said, Milwaukee isn’t the team to measure much against. They try to junk it up. They’re good. Very good, actually.
Between..
the Badgers and the Bucks, I really think Wisconsin just doesn’t want anyone to enjoy the sport of basketball.
Young Badgers are
Tune in this week to "At the Movies With MAYNHOLUP and Jonny Flynn":
Jonny: OMG Salt was so good Angeline Jolie kicked some serious butt in that movie
MAYNHOLUP: mayn fuck u Jonny Flynn
The Bucks are ugly
but I don’t understand the criticism of the Badgers. I kind of like seeing an offense that works for a good shot and doesn’t turn the ball over. And they’ll even run a little if they have to. I think Bo’s teams are much more fun to watch than Bennett’s were. Those were painful. (Reminder: I live in Madison, but I’m not a Badger fan, much to my in-law’s chagrin.)
I didn't just laugh out loud.
I cackled.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 3, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
I laughed out loud as well.
That is amazing
There are people trying to sleep in this house
And I am actually shaking with laughter.
Live And Stupid From England
Beasley recognizes Adleman's hammer
And I think this is why the Beasley believers still have the glimmer of hope.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I don't know if you ever played H.S. ball with a guy like Beasley
But it almost reminds me of a H.S. ball player/coach relationship when the player is really too good to sit (especially on the team) but a good coach will let him know he has the hammer….and he won’t play if the coach doesn’t want him too.
It’s the pro’s and theoretically Beasley should be more professional….but people are all wired different ways and what works for Love, or Carmelo doesn’t mean that is the way Beasley is gonna get to the promise land. (if he ever even does)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Played in some camps with John Thomas and Sam Jacobsen
They were the closest, talent wise. Bebop Walker was probably the closest in terms of talent and attitude. I have no idea how that would play out at higher levels or outside of an AAU-ish setting.
It's pretty easy to win basketball games when you're 3 point specialist hits 3 pointers
Thanks, Wes
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
It also helps when your defense prevents 3-pointers
Rambis never really understood that 3 > 2. There are only 6 teams that have allowed more 3-point makes than our Timberwolves this season.
The real test will be when we play Phoenix. In Rambis’ tenure, Channing Frye torched our Wolves for 33 3-point makes! That’s right, one freakin’ player scored nearly 100 points from beyond the arc in two seasons against us. Pathetic.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 3, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
A better Talking Heads clip
This season is like the anti-George. So maybe this is a better video, though I find it anticlimactic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xYi8u-HsQTg
What's impressive to me, is that
While we’ve lost 3, they’ve been by a combined 9 points and we were still in the games at the end.
The two we’ve won, we wrapped it up by the middle of the 4th and won by over 10 points both times.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 4, 2012 7:42 AM CST via mobile reply actions

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