This time without Super Darko
Last night:
Tonight:
Last night Super Darko showed up and carried the Wolves to an exciting victory over the Los Angeles Clippers on a night where the team's best two players simply did not show up with their best games.
Tonight, Super Darko stayed in his phone booth and the Wolves lost a frustrating game to the Utah Jazz on a night where the team's best two players simply did not show up with their best games.
(More below the fold.)
Tonight, like last night, the Wolves shot like crap and didn't turn it over, but they were unable to control the defensive glass and get to the line at a rate like they did against the Clips. The Wolves were able to get 10 more shots than the Jazz, but they yielded a -1 oreb imbalance (14 to 15) while gathering the same number of defensive rebounds (31). If you are taking 10 more shots than your opponent, if you give up more offensive rebounds, chances are things are not going well for you in the final score.
Tonight's game was kind of disappointing. Last night's tilt was so outlandishly weird that it was hard to put a lot of stock in it. It was fun, it was awesome, but it was weird. Tonight, the Wolves lost a game to one of their closest peers by playing a similar game to the one they played in LA, but without the addition of Super Darko.
Last night the team's best three players went 9-38 from the floor. Tonight they went 13-41. Each game saw 11 turnovers. Both tilts had solid shooting off the bench.
One of the things I really try to hit home on this site is the idea that in an 82 game season (or a 66 game one) it is pointless to get too up or too down about individual games. Long range trends are what really matters and while the rabid fan in me wants to believe that last night's crazy action would be a springboard to something great, the son of a physicist in me remembers being told to apply the scientific method to determining the best way to pick up Lincoln Logs. In other words, any single game in a season this long doesn't really mean a whole lot. They're mostly all entertaining, but the true meaning comes with trends...sustainable ones.
This team needs another consistently above average performer. Until that happens, we'll have a bunch of close games, exciting games, disappointing games...you know, we'll see a lot of close to average production in the long haul that is created by a series of ups and downs. Until they get the 1 extra above average performer, the roller coaster will be set to "on" with the aggregate totals being located in the middle of the pack. Love and Rubio (it really is amazing how well he's played---I'm genuinely surprised about this) are going to be above average in the long run. Luke Ridnour is going to be average in the long run. Wayne Ellington is surprising the hell out of me by looking like a long-run average kind of guy. D-Thrill? He should be good.
The point here is that the Wolves are a fun young team that is going to be in a lot of close games simply because they have two awesome performers and a bunch of guys who, every now and then, will approximate the much-needed 3rd above average producer needed for long-term consistent winning.
Random thoughts:
- Earl Watson pulled off a weird dualfecta tonight. Moments after jumping into Pek and living to tell about it, he picked up a "charge" by being knocked to the ground by the 180lbs Rubio. His tough guy card gets clipped for that nonsense.
- Derrick Williams played a nice game tonight but he looks like he is just a step slow with everything. He clearly hasn't been able to process the speed of the league. Each time he gets the ball he has to take stock of what is around him before moving. He seems dedicated and smart enough to work through this, but it is just weird to watch in real time. Hopefully, his sophomore year in the NBA will see as big of an improvement as did his sophomore year in college.
- Kevin Love's 2p% is becoming problematic. The opposing strategy for dealing with Love seems to be little more than "beat the hell out of him" and it seems to be working. Watch him for 10 straight possessions next game. Watch it when shots go up. He is literally getting other teams to have guys face him up when shots go up in the air. That being said, his poor shooting is starting to become a trend.
- Speaking of trends, Wayne Ellington is the biggest non-Rubio Wolves surprise of the year and he's maintaining his good play. For newer readers of the site, I like to take stock of the team every 20 games during the year. Sample sized matter and Ellington is having a pretty damn good first sample in 2012.
PS: Utah has a really nice young team. It's also nice to see Ty Corbin back in action.
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Teams with multiple athletic bigs
are a really tough match-up for us. The have lots of fouls to give so the swarm Love and make it very difficult for him to rebound and score in the paint. Kevin still needs a tough, long, rebounding and shot-blocking center to play next to.
Wes has been decidedly less terrible the last few games.
The Jazz are certainly athletic,
but what really got me is how pesky they are. They’re constantly poking and swiping at the ball. Everybody looks like they’re on the verge of tripping over each other. It’s chaos out there.
And then CJ Miles decides he’s never missing a shot again. Same with Millsap. Crazy.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 21, 2012 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair
Milsap hasn’t been missing much at all this year, and honestly he’s been quite efficient his who career his usage has just gone up above 20% these past two years.
"Wes has been decidedly less terrible the last few games."
The nice thing is that he isn’t just “hitting his shots” either. He has actually started taking a different approach and is being successful with it. We still need a much bigger sample before getting excited, but it doesn’t look like we are simply seeing a lucky streak.
how was being at the game?
I found the Utah fans very annoying just watching it on league pass.
yeah....
they are pretty ridiculous. They jeer at every single foul even those that are without question. It was a fun game until the end. I thought both teams were playing really well. Love was the only player that seemed to perform below my expectations. Unfortunately… he is a really important piece of the puzzle. You aren’t going to win against an evenly matched opponent when your best player has his worst game of the season. Especially when Millsap is dropping fall-aways like Dirk all game.
....did you hear any, uh...Particularly bad words?
(I’ve read things about Utah’s crowd, just wondering.)
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 22, 2012 12:30 AM CST up reply actions
I was tucked away in the nosebleeds,,,
and surrounded by a bunch of little kids on a team outing. I think the rowdier fans were elsewhere.
I was so pumped to watch this game
after last night but wasn’t able to. Snp is right on “trends matter” don’t get too up or down about one single game. But the trend of Rubio playing awesome continues and that I like.
by Doug West Domination!!! on Jan 21, 2012 11:23 PM CST reply actions
SnP.. thanks for the excellent game recap..
it’s amazing to me how quickly you write. Moreover, having written several of the game report cards, I am also fascinated by the fact you find the time with your family obligations and the like to stay on top of the blog like you do. I agree with your underlying premise without question, but I will say that I would be content if the Wolves had a third above average player each game; even it is not a single person performing in a consistent manner. For example, Darko had a great game yesterday, and Wes and Wayne had good games today. Regardless, it would certainly be better to have a third person we could simply rely on.
“Tonight was a tough shooting night, even from the line,” Love said. “It was just tough. Most of my shots are right there. There’s going to be a point in time where I’m going to go on a helluva run. I know I am. I feel so great shooting the ball. It’s just one of those nights. It wasn’t anything any of those (Jazz) guys did. It was myself. I took myself out of my own game just by missing shots.”
Joe Mauer grounded into double play, second to shortstop to first, ________ out at second
Law of averages
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 1:10 AM CST up reply actions
One day
I must read this Law which of you speak.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
I actually looked this statement up online
Turns our its used for sarcasm more than anything. What I meant to say is that things will average out. He will have some nights this year that will make people forget the last few games ever happened.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
Different Take
This was an odd game to bring up the “the Wolves have two great players and a bunch of schlubs.” The supporting cast actually looked very good again tonight (even Wes!) whereas Love played one of the worst games of his career. His shot wasn’t falling, but he kept chucking, and Milsap was scoring on him at will. He wasn’t even his usual self on the boards.
He just had no energy at all
Maybe the classic “trap” game after such a high from last night.
Yeah, I agree with Vlade
I didn’t see the game, but from the box score, it seemed like everybody but KLove was producing well.
SnP's point was one of trends
And the trend is that we have two really good players and a bunch of mediocre to average guys, each of whom step up from time to time as you would expect.
He also called out the worrying trend of Love’s 2-pt shooting percentage.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 22, 2012 7:44 AM CST up reply actions
2nd game this weekend I couldn't watch
so tried to follow it on my smartphone on NBA Gametime during my local’s holiday party. Party was nice, smartphone experience, not so much…
I believe in RA’s ability to extract the most possible out of this roster, the change on the defensive end of the court alone has been substantial. On offense the Wolves are showing better shot selection, although much of this could also be attributed to the spanish unicorn. I am concerned that KLove seems to feel that he needs to carry this team on tired shoulders, this mindset makes the team less likely to gel as a group, and likely will lead to more reserves trying to jack up shots in order to save the game. If Adelman is the coach I think he is, there will be a “come to jesus” moment soon where KLove sees the pine for a half or so to reinforce the point that everyone contributes and no one has to save the game!
Do we need more quality players? Yep. Does it improve the team to try going all-in on minutes for the 2 great players we have and hoping that they have the stamina to carry this squad to the playoffs? Nope! It is the equivalent of a baseball team running out their 2 quality starting pitchers for game after game of 150+ pitches and hoping to win the pennant. There is more at stake than just getting the 8th seed in the playoffs, there is the future of these players and this team achieving much more than a short run this season. There is the chance to get experience and develop chemistry that gets us far beyond the last seed in the playoffs and ensures this team can get to the finals someday!
I want to see the Wolves win, but moreso I want to see what can happen when we pick up more help and round out this roster. I’m enjoying the hell out of this season, but if we can put together a team that is competitive for several years at a very high level, I can wait and save our ponies for the endg
2012 the year of Twolves porcelain extraction?
by Dogpile on Jan 21, 2012 11:55 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Itts hard to say it,
but we really could have used Beasley tonight. This was a night we needed another volume scorer. Darko lucked into a night like that last night, but no one did against the Jazz. It’ll be interesting to see, now that ball movement has been looking better, if Beasley can fit in when he comes back, or if it will just be iso-city once again. I sure hope he can fit in, because he would be the quickest fix to having a third above average player. His defense was looking better before he got hurt and he was TRYing to pass the ball more. Hope this foot of his heals up soon.
Unicorns, Leprechauns, and Magic F***ing Beans!
I was also disappointed not to see Beasly
Hope you can keep him around up there – if wanted . . .
yojimbo is jazzed
2011-2012 is our 2012-2013 pre-season
by jazzed on Jan 22, 2012 12:18 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
I was at the game tonight.
This was my first glimpse of Rubio, and I must say that I wasn’t disappointed at all. The man can play point guard. I found myself cheering when he made those awesome behind-the-back passes. Loudly. (yes, yes, the annoying Jazz fan—cheering for the other team). He’s the real deal, and I hope he continues to develop for your team.
"Shoot baskets, not people." -AK
Good Game
I caught your game overview on the SB Nation app front page after attending the game and just wanted to log in and say -kudos. Very well written. Enjoyed the insights and overview.
I think the jazz and wolves are very evenly matched – but though wr didn’t show it tonight – wr have a very deep bench. It is usually they who often outplay the starters as a unit. This is only the second of a few games were that hasn’t been the case. And sorry but – Watson is pure tough guy. I’ve been greatly impressed.
But I came here to laud the Wolves and it’s fans. the team looks good and Rubio is going to be something. Should be some good battles in the years to come. And to those of you who have followed as fans – well deserved. From the few comments I’ve read here, ya’ll seem to know your stuff. So congrats again.
And thanks for Big Al. Though he’s been a personal favorite for attitude, etc. I’ve had my concerns (black hole?). But he is really making strides. You probably saw him pass more out of double teams tonight than you did his entire tenure in MN!
Kudos again Canibus – especially after a good won last night.
yojimbo is jazzed
2011-2012 is our 2012-2013 pre-season
by jazzed on Jan 22, 2012 12:16 AM CST via Android app reply actions
Nice.
And I loved Big Al here. There was a stretch where McHale took over as coach and ended with Al’s knee injury where I thought the Wolves had turned everything around and were on their way up. But the knee, then the Kahn…enter the Rambis. You have a nice team there to cheer for.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
May the Kahn
not be the bain of your existence. Although, personally I’m hoping the Utah front office can woo him with a trade of Devin Harris and a bag of chips for Rubio. If you all wouldn’t do anything to dissuade that – it would be appreciated.
yojimbo is jazzed
2011-2012 is our 2012-2013 pre-season
by jazzed on Jan 22, 2012 2:14 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
well..
we haven’t been able to dissuade anything up to this point.
I think Big Al just has better players around him
He was expected to be the Franchise when he was here, but he just didn’t have any help, nor is he good enough to be a lead dog. To me he’s the same player he’s always been: Inefficient scorer and solid rebounder that doesn’t turn it over too much. With Millsap, Favors, and Kanter, he’s got some other guys that can help him out. Millsap is the stud in that group.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 22, 2012 7:50 AM CST up reply actions
Al's problem
is he just doesn’t get to the line, 50% fg% from a guy that creates his own shot isn’t bad.
Yes - noticed the same as to Al's lack in getting to the foul line
But as to all things, he seems to be working on it. And frankly, it has taken some time for Al to learn he can pass out of a double team (his 3 assists were a high) But yes, Milsap is the man. To think last season some of us were bantering on about trading him.
Looking forward to the next one.
yojimbo is jazzed
2011-2012 is our 2012-2013 pre-season
by jazzed on Jan 22, 2012 2:22 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Thats Crazy
Milsap is actually underpaid IMHO, Al and Boozer are both getting like double his pay, but he is better than both. But Yeah you guys have a bright future and might actually be able to compete with the guys you have right now. Amazing.
Kevin Love
Needs to step up his game and start shooting at least 45 percent every night. He got outplayed, and has to knock down the wideopen looks he gets. I’ll be so happy when Beasley gets back so we stop isoing Love, because he is just not good at creating his own shot. With Beas back, I expect Love to be much more efficient, but until then, he needs to shoot a little less, or make sure he shoots better than 5-21. If Rubio can be 5-12 and not be benifitting from his own passes, Love should easily do so, or change what he’s doing.
And he got schooled by Jefferson and Millsap
not to mention 4 of our 11 turnovers
Kevin Love Needs to step up his game…
You don’t have much of a sense of the load Love carries for this team, do you?
Who do you want to have picking up the scoring slack when a unit like Wayne, Luke, Wes and Pek are on the floor with Love (as in the 4th quarter against Utah)?
He needs to jump higher and do more between the legs dribbling
I think this is what people really mean when they say stuff like this.
The “create his own shot” stuff is really amazing to me. Let’s look at the ways in which a player can create his own shot.
1- In iso situations where he breaks his man down off the dribble.
2- On steals where he gains a clear path to the basket.
3- On orebs where he is able to extend a possession and put the ball in the bucket.
4- On post ups where he sets up the defender.
I suppose there have been the few weird cases where a long dreb has led to some points but this is pretty much what we’re dealing with in the world of “creating shots”.
Let’s compare Love to the biggest “shot creator” on planet earth: Kobe Bean Bryant.
Love:
Iso (8%), 0.91 ppp, 43.3%, 18th in the league
Post (20%), .84 ppp, 39%, 26th in the league
Oreb (14.9%), 1.08 ppp, 52.1, 7th in the league
Kobe:
Iso (31.5%), 0.81 ppp, 33.6%, 29th in the league
Post (15.4%), .98 ppp, 47.7%, 14th in the league
Oreb (2.2%), 1.25 ppp, 55.6%, not enough attempts to qualify
All in all, Love has 174 created shots compared to Kobe’s 268. With the back of the napkin math it looks like Love was able to score 131 points with these shots while Kobe scored 186. 174/131 (1.32 pps) is in the same ball park as 268/186 (1.44). Love’s created shots also come with the added bonus of being mostly near the rim, giving him an overall created shot fg% of .445 compared to Kobe’s .389.
I get what some people are saying about it being nice to have a guy on the team you can throw the ball to who can get off a shot in a tough spot. My point is that those shots don’t go in very often and they’re horribly ineffective. Nobody can count on Love to get an offensive rebound in the final 5 seconds of a game while they can count on Kobe being able to hoist up a shot. I’d argue that either one of these guys hoisting up an iso shot in that situation isn’t really what you want in the first place. Iso possessions don’t typically end that well.
Even then, it’s not like Love isn’t capable of upping his iso workload a bit more before it drops to Kobe levels of shooting inefficiency from that type of play.
Anywho, Love seems able to create his own shots. He just doesn’t do as many of the memorable types as someone like Kobe, Melo, or Amare.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 22, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Good post
Whether its a sloppy putback or a beautiful fadeaway, the points count the same.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
ya, but that's kind of the point
At the end of the game, or if the offense is stalling out for a half-quarter, that’s when you need a guy who can create a shot from an ISO. I realize SNP is correct that it is inefficient, but those are time when a star needs to provide a spark, and Love’s ability to do so is less than what you would like.
I mean, this isn’t blasphemy, Love is a superstar and can be the best player on a great team, but his game has wholes, and that is one of them.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 3:42 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
please excuse the typos/bad grammar
Doin the mobile commenting
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 3:43 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Again, iso situations are not what you want
They are inefficient. Love can iso. He has done so a ton this year. Again, Love has improved a ton from season to season—this is the first year where we have seen him be actually successful in 1 on 1 situations. He has been driving…
I will not argue he is as good as Kobe or Melo at getting off a super tough shot, but is that what we want out of our players? And if you do want that, why assume he will not better himself at that? He is 23 years old.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather see a beautifully set up play
with a bucket for the win – ala Clippers. Even if it’s not on an inbound. Gives the team more chances – they can go with what’s open. Never been a big fan of the iso
i absolutely agree
And thought that all last year when they iso’d Beast.
When in Charlotte they’d clear out for LJ every single end of game. He’d dribble out the clock above the key and then one out of ten times score on his Iso. Bristow couldn’t coach either.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
I remember reading about how set plays are more effective than isos in these situations but I can’t remember where it was.
be careful
I remembered Iowa St being ranked 4th.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 23, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
written by a D. Kahn(eman)
I dare say that was Freudian snp.
It does look interesting. I’ll check it out.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 23, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
I more have a problem with the open shots he misses
with multiple wide open mid range jumpers that a superstar should be able to hit every time. If he’s gonna be considered a superstar, he needs to play every night like one, or at least change what he’s doing when his shots aren’t going in.
that really could be mitigated
by the minutes he’s been asked to play. Kevin missing open shots doesn’t concern me because he has great mechanics and a smooth stroke. Fatiqued legs can be a factor and can create misses even when the upper body mechanics look good.
That stated, Kelvin’s minutes concern me.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 23, 2012 9:26 AM CST up reply actions
kelvin, I like it so I won't offer a correction.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 23, 2012 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
We can even replace our report card grades from letter designations to Kelvin
Jonny Flynn has to be a 0 by now.
I wanna see Beas with 'This Team' too.
I think, with the way things are, Beas would really help.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 22, 2012 1:29 AM CST up reply actions
Things will average out
Love will go on a hotstreak at some point and reverse this. Players do not shoot their career average every night.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 2:48 AM CST up reply actions
Love is shooting 37% from the field since Beasley went out
Is that just a cold streak or is it because he has to carry more of the load in terms of shot creation? Probably some combination of both.
But let’s just say that Love plays better when Beasley plays. That doesn’t mean Beasley’s missed shots, turnovers, and lack of free throws aren’t hurting us as a team. We’re just switching the inefficiency back to Beasley.
Ideally we possess or find another player that can carry more of the load offensively while doing so with at least average efficiency. There is a huge opening here for Derrick Williams, but he’s not there yet and ideally he could play SF. Not sure that will ever happen.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 22, 2012 8:03 AM CST up reply actions
Love plays better when Beasley plays
But everyone else plays worse. I think that argument could be supported.
whoever started the idea of Beast as 6th man last year had the right idea.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
Hoping that is how it goes
After he comes back from injury I am hoping RA has him coming off the bench to ease him back in. Right now the second squad isn’t so strong with the scoring and this means that Rubio and Love are playing extended minutes with them. If Beas and JJ can anchor the second squad, life would be good.
Even though it sucks we lost...
by Svincent2011 on Jan 22, 2012 12:51 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Even though it sucks we lost...
At least we are a little closer to a first round pick. How did kanter look btw? Just curious, really liked him going into the draft
by Svincent2011 on Jan 22, 2012 12:52 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Should we start the "Shoulda drafted Kanter instead of Williams" debate?
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 22, 2012 1:28 AM CST up reply actions
probably not
At one point we could have started a “should we have drafted Lopez instead of Love?” debate. It’s a bit early.
I thought Kanter looked
a little doughy in terms of his fitness. Could probably lose a few pounds. Good height tho.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 22, 2012 1:49 AM CST up reply actions
He looked like
a more athletic, better shooting, slower footspeed version of Pekovic. I don’t think he’ll be very good unless he loses some weight and gets much better defensively
I watched from the second quarter on
My thoughts:
- Just got killed on the glass. Box score says Jazz were +11 boards – felt like more. Love was below his average, and when he sat it just got worse. Pekovic can score and play a little D, but the man cannot rebound.
- Love seemed to struggle defending both Al and Millsap tonight, especially Millsap. He has a very reliable outside shot and made both open and difficult shots (including an extreme fade-away).
- Really like Luke as a shooter. Really cringe when he tries to distribute.
- Perimeter D seemed pretty bad two games in a row. Clipper and Utah guards seemed to be having their games of the year.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
This really just comes down to
a bad game by Love.
Didn’t get a chance to watch the whole thing, but from what I could gather everyone else seemed to play good enough in their respective roles.
Games like this will happen for the big fella. Nothing to get too worried about, a road loss to a good team when your best player shoots 23%…
Williams, if he can find either the right fit on this team or in the league will be an All-Star at some point in his career. He can hit the full gambit of shots and showed it this game, he rebounds and does off ball stuff well enough to keep him involved in the game without scoring. Again, it’s no surprise to me that when Adleman let’s Williams get into a rhythm that Williams produces.
Stretch of solid but unspectacular basketball has come around for Wes. He, much like Wayne, appears to be finding his role on this team—one that he is capable of playing (thank you Rick).
Wayne is perfect at right around 24 minutes a game….absolute perfect role for him.
I felt our best lineup was Rubio, Wayne, Wes, Williams, Love. I think the Williams/Love thing could work….but you gotta get two wings that can defend to make up for it—If Wes could resemble even the poor man’s version of what we thought he could be, that would be a big help.
If the Jazz can win playing Jefferson/Milsap together there is no reason the Wolves can’t play Love/Williams together
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Love had a Be-Easy kind of game
What else can you say? I know I’ve been a constant supporter of Super-Cool… but, uh… (?) how much would another scorer help right now?
You have to remember that Beasley
only played when Rubio was playing with the reserves for the most part. I think they’ll fit well together and Rubio can help keep him engaged in the game mentally
Well, if not...
And Beasley makes Rubio less effective, Adelman will put a stop to whatever Beasley’s doing. In other words, nothing shows that you’re doing something wrong more than the machine jamming. Beasley stands a much better chance of understanding this than he did when Ridnour was the point.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
The critisisms on Love
Are all true. He can’t lead a team, and he can’t create his own shot. I mean, terrific win by all accounts yesterday, but Love is who he is. He is a grinder, a scaveranger… but he is not a guy who is going to take over a game when it matters (at least not without help).
He stills deserves a max deal, but at this point, all that is said is true…
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 2:16 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
A few bad games and you come to this conclusion
If Love had been hitting 40-50% in the last few games I doubt anyone would be saying anything.
Seems like a board-wide overreaction has taken place here. We are only 16 games into the season—5 games ago, Love was untouchable.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 2:51 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly...
people are already prone to getting too exciting about a player’s performance in a single game. When you add in a performance that in any way confirms an existing narrative (Love can’t create offense) you can guarantee the ridiculous commentary is going to come out.
lol
None of what I said isn’t true. He isn’t a leader and he can’t create his own shot. This has been true all season. Unsure where you are getting any of your criticisms of my point from.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 9:43 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
an I don't say anything about his shooting percentage and his tradeability...
I said his is a max player and we need him, but he has flaws. Not sure what you are arguing about.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 9:45 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
What do you mean by "not a leader"?
I have no idea what this means or how we could possibly know this.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 22, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
your right
I could be wrong or we may never know. But he doesn’t seem like a guy with a leadership ability. He cheap shots guys with quotes, is a bit whinny, and seems to have a pretty big huge ego. Look at Rubio for the definition of a leader.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 9:49 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
How could you argue....
that a player who is assisted on less than 50% of his shots can’t create his own shot? That is a ridiculous claim.
Hell, according to synergy the guy is ranked 18th in isolation situations and 26th in the post. You are spouting unsupportable nonsense.
by vjl110 on Jan 22, 2012 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But, he can create his own shot
He has a post game and has been driving for the past few games. Again, he had a few bad games, but I’m not sure what else you want from him. Iso situations aren’t ideal anyways.
Did you read SnP’s post above about Bryant/Love?
Also keep in mind Love has improved season after season, covering flaws that everyone thought were fatal parts of his game
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
haha, I read it
Love has flaws, SNP has flaws, everyone has flaws.
When talking about a basketball player it is perfectly acceptable to point out aspects of their game that are lacking.
Anyways, Love just doesn’t have the top notch iso ability, back to the basket or otherwise. It’s not completely lacking, but it isn’t at that level that most superstars are. Now, he has other skills that more than make up for that. And iso ball is inefficient, I get that too, but there are points in a game when you need that ability. Why do you think we are clamoring for a wing that can create his own shot or another offensive big? I realize part of that is our lack of those positions, but it is also the fact that those are valuable basketball skills to have.
Look, this is simple. Love isn’t able to create a shot in a one on one situation anywhere near the traditional superstar. You can have opinions about other aspects of his game making up for it, or even the usefulness of that talent, but my point is pretty clear.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 3:57 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I assume that when you say Love has "aspects of his game that are lacking"
you actually mean that the team has sizable holes and a lack of talent.
When I watched the 76ers vs. Lakers in the 2001 NBA Championship, I didn’t conclude that Allen Iverson had “aspects of his game that were lacking” because he wasn’t the team’s leading rebounder. This is because different players play somewhat different roles on different teams.
Expecting that “superstars” must all fulfill the same checklist of arbitrary expectations is silly. Dwight Howard is Dwight Howard and Jason Kidd is Jason Kidd and the league is full of ISO specialists who never helped to make a team better and who never won anything.
by nextmove on Jan 22, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
your totally right
Too bad I wasn’t asking him to do anything impossible. I didn’t even say he needed that skill set, simply said he lacked it.
And is a back to the basket game, for example, really that much of a stretch? Your reply, while creative, pretty much takes most of my points out of context.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 4:20 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I didn’t even say he needed that skill set, simply said he lacked it.
And I would like to point out the fact that Rubio’s skill set doesn’t seem to include the ability to back guys down in the low post. Blah.
by nextmove on Jan 22, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
come on...
Pointing out Love lacking a back to the basket game is a pretty fair critique… Big guys typically do. You can make all these ‘clever’ remarks, but I’m not saying anything unreasonable.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 4:54 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
But Love does have a back to the basket game?
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
Not arguing that Love isn't as good as iso as other No. 1 guys
But again, considering his progression on that front this season compared to last, who is to say that he will not further develop that talent in the future?
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 4:42 PM CST up reply actions
I think you'll find that most superstar iso ability is not at the level you think it is at
None of what you say is backed up by the actual plays that have happened on the court this year. He’s done surprisingly well in iso situations, taking guys off the dribble or stepping back into his shot.
was there supposed to be a % with this?
extra possessions win games. Lots of extra possessions—>lots of extra points—>taking over a game.
I think rebounding has the same rules as assists. Rebounds make lots of people happy.
by midlife crisis on Jan 22, 2012 5:57 AM CST up reply actions
No, I think TO12 is right on.
Love will do so many things to help the team win, but the criticisms still ring true. Really what it comes down to is that the Wolves need an effective scorer. They are severely lacking someone who plays within the offense and be a consistently prolific, efficient scorer. I mean, if you want this to be a playoff-caliber team. As is, with no major injuries (Love, Rubio), this is a 30 win team, and we can scream our love for those who deserve it. But when you’re this close, and your two stars are definite pieces to an eventual championship, you kind of want that other necessary piece.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
he's right to a point
Kevin can take over a game he just can’t do it on queue like a select few superstars are able to do. And as of now that player doesnt exist on this team so what do you do? You go with your best player. He can also hit a huge shot as he showed.
He is a grinder with a gunslinger mentality. Last night he, like many cold shooting superstars kept thinking his next shot was the one that was going to go in. It hurt the team. There was a point where he should have deferred.
Over the course of the season I’ll take a handful of nights like this in exchange for what he provides regularly.
My advice to Kevin and all players not shooting well is try to get inside and/or to the line to get your game going. He became frustrated again with officiating and took a lot of long shots.
They’ve ridden this horse hard. The Pony Express used to change horses every 25 miles. Kelvin’s already gone from St Joseph to Salt Lake City. Day off will help.
The only critism I’d have for Love is that like Kahn (sorry to invoke both names in the sáme sentence) he’s more effective when he keeps his mouth shut.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 8:21 AM CST up reply actions
you see what I'm getting at
Love is great, we new him and he can be the best player on a winning team. But he has certain weaknesses that do exist (everyone does…)
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 9:32 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I also feel I am telling the truth about him not being a leader
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 9:32 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
i think we disagree on leadership
I think he has big time leadership qualities. Like any young player with his spirit I think he can occasionally lead in the wrong way (again, the mouth). But he certainly appears to have the respect from and attention of his teammates.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
Those rebounds certainly didn't win games the past two years.
So much for that theory.
Right....
The Timberwolves poor performance the last two year indicates that rebounds don’t win games.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/factors.html
Four Factors
How do basketball teams win games? While searching for an answer to that question, Dean Oliver identified what he called the “Four Factors of Basketball Success”:
Shooting (40%)
Turnovers (25%)
Rebounding (20%)
Free Throws (15%)
The number in parentheses is the approximate weight Mr. Oliver assigned each factor. Shooting is the most important factor, followed by turnovers, rebounding, and free throws. [Editor’s note: I agree with the order, but disagree with the weightings.] These factors can be applied to both a team’s offense and defense, which in a sense gives us eight factors.
“No rebounds – no rings.”
— Pat Riley
“There is nothing more important than rebounding… don’t just give it lip service.”
— Don Meyer
“All great teams have two things in common: defense and rebounding.”.
…Larry Brown
by vjl110 on Jan 22, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
As a hs coach
There are two people guaranteed starting spots on my team regardless of their offense.
My best rebounder and best defender.
Can’t win without them.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
I usually start five players
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Meaning I also start my
Best ballhandler. Best shooter. Best post player. My point is that most kids think they have to score to get on the floor. Mine don’t.
I need someone who can shut down the other team’s best player and someone who can’t tilt the possessions scale our way. It is a game of possessions. I value the ball and I value rebounding as a means to an end.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"can" tilt
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
So much for those theories. To work, they need to show up in results.
Maybe you’d like a longer sample?
I don't get it...
are you arguing that there are a bunch of championship teams that were bad at rebounding?
The four factors data isn’t theory. It is data. It is results.
Follow the thread.
My initial response was in regards to Love’s extra rebounds translating to wins. My point is simple. It didn’t the last two years. Now as to the four factors, I tend to agree that shooting is a key skill. I said so above. But no where in those four factors is dribbling mentioned. I think this is a serious flaw in ANY analysis of winning basketball yet it is almost never mentioned. Why, because it’s not quantifiable in the normal way. Look, the four factors are nice, but they’re not the end all and be all of basketball analysis. Winning basketball is an amalgam. It’s nice to highlight certain things to look at but it’s merely a beginning, not an end.
I can agree with your last two sentences...
and still think that your first three are absurd. Hell, simply applying the logic of your last two sentences makes your first three absurd.
Love’s rebounds absolutely helped us win games the last two seasons. However, rebounding is not everything. Since everything outside of Love was a complete shit-storm, we didn’t win.
I'm sorry but 15 and 17 wins are telling. For your argument to have merit
it has to hold up to a more global perspective. Arguing minutia always allows one to find "facts" (really beliefs) that suit their argument. And all you end up with is a circle jerk. You argue how you wish but I judge thing with the wisdom I can muster and then I compare my conclusions to end results. And in this case I don’t see the value that everyone else does when I look at the end result.
The problem with the Wolves improved play:
New posters like this.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 22, 2012 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's not at all what's going on in this instance, buddy.
By all means though, get on the cross.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 22, 2012 6:11 PM CST up reply actions
How many times have I been insulted today? I guess you missed those.
You yourself have already done it several times. You don;t agree with me so I guess that’s OK?
You are being disagreed with
You seem to believe that when people disagree with the things you say, they are saying mean things about you. This isn’t true.
In all honesty...
I have probably been insulting. Kevin Love ignorance seems to be a touchy issue for me.
Yeah I probably came off as a bit rash as well
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 8:33 PM CST up reply actions
Again I am insulted.
You people think mighty highly of yourselves.
And what :evidence" have you offered? Zero.
if you were as bright as you think you are you would understand that you’re offering nothing more than a POV, just like I am. Difference is I understand that. You don’t
Sci Fi
Please don’t ask Vj for evidence. I need some sleep tonight and I don’t need to spend two hours figuring out some damn chart. Just take his word.
And if you want to take as unpopular a position as to criticize Kevin Love you are going to need some thick skin.
Do yourself a favor. Want to make some friends here? Talk about Wes Johnson win shares.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 9:09 PM CST up reply actions
I swear you guys....
There’s no relation.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
You don't talk either.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 23, 2012 5:48 AM CST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmKxa_FMkU#t=0m35s
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 8:54 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty sure 'dribbling' is connected to turnovers.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 22, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
This:
“My initial response was in regards to Love’s extra rebounds translating to wins. My point is simple. It didn’t the last two years,” is completely nonsensical.
KLove rebounded the shit out of the ball the last two seasons and we won 32 games. There is no alternative reality in which KLove rebounded the shit out of the ball and we won more games. There is no alternative reality in which KLove rebounded at an average rate and we still won 32 games.
I think it’s pretty clear that without KLove’s stellar rebounding we actually lose more games, and possibly all the games, but there isn’t even an alternative reality in which that happened.
My point? Being absolutist about a position based on pure speculation is pretty silly.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 22, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Nonsensical. Silly. Really? Answer me this.
How is this team now winning much more than t last year when Love’s rebounds are down 16%? Are there other factors coming into play besides one player putting up hollow stats?
Rubio/Adelman
Improved play elsewhere. I cant tell if you’re kidding.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
This coming from the man who wanted to trade Rubio and still is
surprised by his play. I’m pretty sure I’m on to something if you’re mocking it.
You are awesome
It takes true dedication to one’s self to define the validity of something you like by the negative reaction it gets in others. There, I made you feel even better about yourself.
Keep trying. You have no clue about basketball so you spin words.
Your fans will love you. The wise ones will laugh. So, why trade Rubio? Why the surprise? Do you understand? I doubt it.
Is there some joke argument between you two that I'm not getting
I feel like this is going right over my head
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions
I told him after two games Rubio was better than Love.
He thinks a lot of rebounds win games. Sorry, SNP, You don’t get it.
cant they both be good?
What if they are equally important at different positions? Or does one have to be “better”.
Their roles are so diametrically opposed I’m not sure how you determined Rubio is better.
And for the sake of record keeping if I had to choose I’d keep Love. Even though Rubio admittedly dribbles better.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"somehow that news fails to disquiet me..."
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 23, 2012 12:25 AM CST up reply actions
Jebus.
Can SBNation institute an “Ignore” function? There are a lot of toolboxes out there.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 23, 2012 5:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Take Love off this team
And the Wolves are back to last year, or worse.
Just my opinion. You are really undervaluing Love.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 23, 2012 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
Am I on a Sci Fi channel original right now?
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 23, 2012 1:12 AM CST up reply actions
I think its time to
Curl up to a nice Harlan Ellison novel.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
i was offering a much needed out.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
unfortunately sci fi
Is having the same game Love did yesterday. When you are not making any shots there comes a time to stop shooting.
Go get a good long shower and come back strong tomorrow.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
My guess is, though,
that he’s on the tenth day of a ten-day contract. He’s going to create whatever activity is possible in hopes that it will stick.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 23, 2012 5:52 AM CST up reply actions
Diffferent situation but still within this organization...
Did Garnett suddenly become a great player when Cassell/Sprewell were added to the team?
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
Are you one of those "He can't lead a team to victory" people?
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Let's look at the facts:
1) How many Timberwolves tattoos does Love have?
2) Have you ever seen Love run up and down the court while carrying a Timberwolves flag?
3) He doesn’t seem to scream nearly loud enough in the huddles.
I rest my case.
by nextmove on Jan 22, 2012 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
That's why you post not good!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 23, 2012 5:54 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think so...
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
I wRECk'eD it.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 23, 2012 5:53 AM CST up reply actions
Yup...
Haha, it’s all a joke looking back on it
I agree the ingorance is painful. But you really couldn’t have predicted K-Love turning into such a destructive basketball playing monster. This is almost unfathomable.
I feel like you could really make a case to take him over any other player in the league to start a team. You could make real strong case for probably only 4 other guys over Love, but you could make just as good of case to take Love over them too.
by TO12 on Jan 3, 2012 7:26 AM PST up reply actions
by LoveTo on Jan 22, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for justice
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
haha, it's funny how a simple critique of his game leads to an uproar
He is a superstar, a max player and can be the best player on a championship team, I’m not flip flopping. But his game has holes, whose doesn’t? It’s kind of silly to pretend they don’t exist.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 3:46 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
and I might take him over anyone
You can strongly critique any player in the league. Love included… Sorry fellas, he isn’t made of gold.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 3:48 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I have no problem with the critiques
They just seem a bit reactionary, the the holes that you are pointing out aren’t really that big of flaws at all if taken into context.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
They aren't flaws
But there are aspects he doesn’t possess. But breaking guys down off the dribble to create shots isn’t too typical of 6’10" power forwards.
I feel pretty strongly that Love gets every ounce out of what he’s been blessed with.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not feeling uproarious.
Of course he has flaws. But this: “He can’t lead a team, and he can’t create his own shot. I mean, terrific win by all accounts yesterday, but Love is who he is. He is a grinder, a scaveranger… but he is not a guy who is going to take over a game when it matters (at least not without help).”
Feels like a much stronger critique than, “he’s not a perfect player.” People are reacting to that, not the general sentiment that Love isn’t “made of gold.”
It's like when..
….people say “stats don’t tell the whole story” when what they really mean is “I don’t care about the stats”. It’s a definition set up to negatively define the alternative without really having to define the subject.
There are definitely holes in his game and they should be sussed out. However, in terms of saying things that look like they might be true but really don’t seem to add up with what his actual production suggests….well, that’s not really an attempt to find the gaps in the data. That’s just another way of dressing up the eye test.
And be, you know, angry
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 22, 2012 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, you will both know the wrath of my razor-sharp claws...
after my de-programming…once I’ve worked up the nerve to escape from this cult.
see! i knew it.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
An egg, nonetheless ;)
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
I think the main problem with thist statement
is that it implies that the waning moments of the fourth quarter matter more than any other time in the game. Sure the defense steps up at the end, but if Love goes for 20/14 over the rest of the game and only scores at the end of the game off of Rubio/Set plays/inbounds I’m ok with that.
and one more thing
If we are going to lose to anyone, it is a good idea to lose to the Jazz.
So that’s good.
by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 2:28 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
I thought about this before the game and that's a nice second prize
but would’ve loved to win and have a .500 record (even if it only lasts two days).
We were in this right until the end, but just missed a few opportunities late in the 4th to get even and then time was our enemy.
Super Darko
I didn’t get to see the game (stupid work) but looking at the box score I can be happy with Darko’s performance if he played good D. I don’t see any reason to hate on him off of that game. The Jazz frontline goes hard at the boards too which makes it difficult for him.
0 TURNOVERS?
Darko and Love
If we are getting 10/4 on 5-8 shooting from him on a nightly basis then I’m liking that and we’re in business. He’s still slightly hobbled by that foot niggle, you saw him grimace and limp in the third quarter and hence only the 16 minutes. He played good “D”
This defeat was most definitely down to K-Love’s miserable night and not Darko’s failure to put up another 20+ performance. As TO12 quite rightly says above, asking Love to create isn’t advisable…he gets embroiled in silly arguments with officials…I counted at least three occasions last night where he didn’t hustle back and Utah converted whilst he was moaning.
I think Barea, Beasley and Webster (when they return to full fitness) will take the heat off him a bit and he can go back to being the double/double machine we all know and adore.
The guy is 5th in the...
league in point per game. How can you say that with a straight face?
by vjl110 on Jan 22, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well he
does get to the line, but a PF that shooting 41% is NOT good.
The thing is...
as you say, he gets to the line. Points are all that matters in scoring. Love’s TS% is still pretty damn good. He could definitely get better at scoring close to the basket, but when you factor in fouls he is still “good” at it.
Last night he was terrible...
and he didn’t really impress the night before… however, who cares. Shooting is notoriously volatile. It will come back up. It always does. I didn’t see them doing anything new to contain Love last night, he just missed a bunch of shots he normally makes. He had at least one really nice post move. He made one nice pump-fake and drive. But he clunked a bunch of open shots.
Honestly I am more worried about the rebounding. That indicates to me that he must be exhausted. Kevin Love should not be leading the league in minutes.
Kevin Love should not be leading the league in minutes.
This.
He’s getting beaten down by the minutes.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 22, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
WHO CARES HOW HE GOT HIS POINTS? HE GOT HIS POINTS!
Are you going to tell me that some one on one iso guy who scores 18 ppg is a better scorer than Love? Because Love scores more. It doesn’t matter how he’s scoring, he is ****ing scoring. Its like people have been ignoring the discussion on this blog for the past year?
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The best part is...
not only is he scoring, but a lot of it is in iso, or in the post (the big equivalent of iso). There just is no argument there, but people keep baldy stating it as fact. With, and you will be surprised by this, NO supporting evidence. Just assertion, followed by “group-think” comments, followed by insults.
Absolutely
Can’t pin this on Darko and a bit unfair to make that the headline. He was hampered by injury and had a line that would be an ok Darko night on most nights. At least I wouldn’t complain much if he shot above 50% every night, scored 10 points, didn’t turn the ball over and played decent defense. I know those are low expectations, but that is better than a zombie-Darko night.
Injuries are killing this team right now. Just having JJ and Beas back will bring some much needed relief since there will be more scoring options. Love and Rubio can’t sit for long right now and fatigue has to be a big factor for the poor shooting nights we are starting to see. You can always go out and do the other little things like we have been seeing (Rubio has been awesome in doing those other things), but if the legs are gone the shots are not going in.
No one is pinning this loss on Darko.
Darko’s play against the Clips was an aberration (not his play last night). The point is that the team as a whole didn’t have a great game either night and that, minus the out-of-his-mind performance from Darko, we lost last night . (If someone else had played similarly out of his mind last night, perhaps we would have :).
by PDGirl on Jan 22, 2012 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You desperately want SB Nation to have a footnote function, don't you?
Queen of the parenthetical comment.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 22, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Or an edit function. You have not met me in “real life,” but this is sort of how I speak, too. (Although I have gotten better about elminating it on the record in the courtroom).
I actually talk like that too, and am a big fan of the parenthetical remark
and digressions of all kinds (including footnotes)!
I think it’s down to us lawyers. No doubt one of the reasons so many people want us to shut up.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 22, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
I do that all the time, too.
I’ll stop in mid-sentence to correct something I said incorrectly, and then go right back to what I’d been saying. When I’m having a bad speaking day, my students have to think I’m insane.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 22, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
Sounds like we have some
David Foster Wallace fans in the house. He elevated the footnote to an art form.
by Madison Dan on Jan 22, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Terry Pratchett as well.
Totally different writers, but effective users of the footnote to enhance the story.
But I think the grand prize in footnote-inventiveness has to go to Vladimir Nabokov for Pale Fire.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 22, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
He was my "I Write Like" comparison
I took it as saying that have the unnecessary verbosity without the talent. It shows up in my speaking as well. Digressions and over-explanations are warts of mine.
Just in case anyone wants to use the “I Write Like” website, it’s at iwl.me. It doesn’t serve to do much more than amuse, but it’s still pretty cool to see what their algorithm ends up comparing your writing to.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Not directly,
but the name Love doesn’t show up until late in the game wrap which is a bit surprising. Players will have bad nights and will have slumps. Love will pull out of this slump. But this loss clearly is on Love. 5-21 shooting! Less than 10 boards! Not even close to his usual self and I really think fatigue is a factor in this. But the fact remains that he had a crappy night out there.
Wes has been tarred and feathered in the game wraps for a shooting percentage in the 20s or worse.
Beas would be taken to task in the game wrap up for sure if he had such a night. He would have had the derisive term volume scorer attached to his performance.
Yet this game wrap up had Darko in the headline and said that the “team shot crap” when in fact 5 of 9 players shot better than 50% from the floor. It just so happened that Love was not one of them, so it must have been a team crap shoot.
I am all for heaping praise on Love this year since he is clearly an awesome player (who does deserve a max contract), but when he should also get a bad review in the game wrap when he deserves it. Last night he certainly did.
Love has had a bad stretch
Yeah, not gonna argue that
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
Lack of contract
Could this be effecting Kevin Love’s game? How is it not done?
Posting without reading the thread
I have a number of brief comments that may or may not be true/relevant:
1. Wayne Ellington is not missing shots. That’s where he’s helpful, and that is what’s scary about this…he won’t sustain. He just has extreme confidence right now.
2. That said, both Ellington and Wes are learning to take advantage of the defense. You especially see this with Wes. Offensively, I cringed less tonight wrt Wes than I have in any game this year.
3. If the Wolves were going to lose one game this weekend, I am super-fired up-happy it was to the Jazz. A good draft with Adelman evaluating the talent is not one the Wolves should miss out on.
4. That Jazz team is interesting. It’s hard to believe that they will finish bottom 14 this year AND bottom 12 next year. But I want this year’s pick. It is likely a better pick this year in a better draft.
5. Rubio. He is so good, I just don’t know what to say. I went from hoping he could be effective to now wanting every casual fan to understand that he might already be the best player Minnesota has ever had. And he’s going to get better.
6. Back to Wes. If I watched him play for the first time last night against Utah, I still wouldn’t want him to be playing (assuming average alternatives), but it would be somewhat arguable. Hail Adelman and staff, because they’re teaching an old dog new tricks, and the old dog appears to have some confidence.
7. Still Wes. He’s been sucking defensively.
8. At the risk of sounding absurd, do you know whom the Wolves need on this team? Dean Garrett. I never thought I’d say that. Mind you, I don’t know how good he really was (except, not very) or whether he hurt the team in “advanced” ways, but I do know that he was a journeyman backup who really wasn’t good at all until the combo of Garnett and Marbury made him into a very good “basic stats” NBA player. He took advantage of every help defense on Marbury. He took advantage of every double-team and double-blockout of Garnett. He was somewhat athletic. I miss him now and think we need another. Some guy who takes advantage of other teams’ perceptions of his own limited abilities. I don’t know if that type of guy is identifiable or whether you just luck into that, but we don’t have it right now.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Jan 22, 2012 6:43 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Nice post
I agree on all except for 5. Maybe in a few years, but as of right now KG is undisputedly the best.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
League pass on Comcast
I think it cost me $169, and I think I’ve been able to see four (extra) games because of it. I am so giddy anticipating the start of Wolves games that I pee a little. Yesterday, I played poker all day, maybe eight hours at Canterbury, and I was frustrated by how little I’d won over so much time. But when I actually counted it, it came to a profit of exactly $169. I suddenly felt that my Saturday was well worth it—because it paid for my League Pass. Forgetting about taxes for the moment, I have the LP for free this year!
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Nice
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Well, some nights you just get beat
I was happy that there wasn’t a real letdown last night; I thought they efforted, they were there in the 4th quarter, but they just couldn’t make the final push. That’s how a lot of NBA games go. Love obviously did not have a good game; I’m not really worried about it.
From a trends perspective, the success the Wolves were having before this road trip came from getting to the line more often than their opponents (something unheard of in these parts) and taking more 3s than their opponents. Their lack of success was due to their negative TO differential, and the fact that they have not been a really good shooting team so far.
In some ways, this road trip showed those things off, in other ways it didn’t. They were outshot from 3 by the Clips, but got to the line and won the TOs. In Utah, they took more 3s, but didn’t get to the line, and again won the TOs. In fact, they are getting closer to even on turnovers, which is nice to see.
Two games don’t tell us much. The fact that they are getting more FTs and 3PAs on the season suggests a MUCH better understanding of what wins in the NBA than we have seen in recent years (or maybe ever). I’m happy to give credit to Adelman for understanding that and getting the team playing in ways that work. If those things continue, and the TO improvement is real, those are great signs. I agree with SnP that they still need another above average performer to be an actual good team, but at least they are playing like a real NBA team.
So much so that I have changed my sig line.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 22, 2012 9:31 AM CST reply actions
I like the new sig.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 22, 2012 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
Oops.
We’ve gone from Arby’s to Applebees. On to L’Etoile! (Madison reference.)
by Madison Dan on Jan 22, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
My girlfriend and I were in Madison last summer
and ate at L’etoile, Harvest, and Graze.
I think we would go back to Graze first.
Graze is good
a great place to eat and watch the people on the square.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 22, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that's waaaay finer dining than we usually do
but is good to eat high on the hog once in a while. And I know people who blow as much at the bar in a couple of weeks, so no regrets!
I think it's gonna be awhile before we get to L'Etiole.
If we can get to the Hubbard Avenue Diner I’ll be happy.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 22, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
One of my thoughts in the 4th quarter last night
Was that again, we live and die by the 3.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Can't win 'em all
Tough to win back-to-back road games. Especially with a reduced roster. Because of the draft thing, this was one to lose.
What’s the deal with Randolph? Is he hurt, or just not being used?
Can’t remember seeing a stat line like that for Love. Kinda ugly for anyone, but especially by his standards.
Nice to see that Wes hit some shots, though I’ve seen comments that he was bad defensively. Hopefully he can put it all together one of these days and have good game at both ends of the floor.
Looks like D-Will had a nice game and is starting to figure some things out.
I wonder how much the shortened preseasoned camp and condensed schedule is slowing down the development of some of the really young guys. A longer preseason and more practice time would have provided more opporunity for guys to learn Adelman’s system, and a more gradual NBA entry for rookies.
But, nothing to be done about that now. From my glance at the schedule, I see 5 back-to-backs but only 1 instance of multiple days off between games until the All-Star break.
and no summer league
Training camp and summer league could have helped D-Will out a bunch and maybe even Rubio. Perhaps with a longer training camp more pre-season games RA would have felt comfortable with having Rubio start from game 1.
Same thing can be said for any team in the league
Including the jazz
I don’t buy the reduced time excuse because everyone has had to deal with it
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 22, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
About that third above average player..
I would like to say that I don’t really care if the additional above average play comes from the same player every game, or a different one each game. What I care more about is that the baseline performance of our players improves so that, even as their performance wave may oscillate, it does so with a smaller amplitude and higher midpoint. It’s not necessarily the lack of a third above average player that has hurt us, but rather the presence of several horribly performing players. Indeed, if Wes and/or Darko simply had average games in every contest this year, I’m convinced our record would be better. For example, Luke playing his best + Kevin playing as expected + Ricky playing as expected + Wes playing at an average level + Darko playing at an average level + the bench playing at an average level would be enough for us to beat most teams on most nights. Unfortunately, in many games we have had Luke playing at average or below average levels + Kevin playing as expected + Ricky playing as expected + Wes being terrible + Darko being terrible + the bench minus Rubio being terrible. That’s just not going to get it done. What is actually crazy about the last two games is we’ve had Ricky playing about as well as expected + Kevin playing far worse than expected + Ridnour playing poorly + Darko playing at an above average level + Wes playing at an average to above average level + the bench playing at an average to above average level. Amazingly, even with this we split a 2 game road trip playing 2 good teams.
by bsg007 on Jan 22, 2012 11:21 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Well, that's the problem
Half the games we have that third above average player, half we don’t. If we actually got somebody who is consistently above average, we’d win most games. Because those other guys that are above average here and there, we need them to comprise the 4th above average player. I’m happy with the development and future of this team, but if you’re happy with the team as is, I would question whether your objective is to win lots of games. (you=general you)
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Jan 22, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
understood, but what I'm saying is that it's been the horrible play that has hurt us more than the lack of a third above average player..
I would have killed for Ricky + Kevin + average Darko, Luke, and Wes, but that’s not what we’ve gotten. But as Rascal Flats pointed out very well in the report card thread on this topic I think I am talking about a team that can be .5 to .6, but you guys are talking about a team that can contend for a championship. So I agree with you guys to a large extent.
oh.. and no I'm not happy with the team as is..
I would be if Darko could play at an average level as he is quite capable of if he could get out of his own way, Wes played like he did the last two games, Luke played at an average level, Wayne played close to as well as he has the last several games, Beasley buys into the system, our injured players return and play at an average to above average level, etc. The problem is this is NOT going to happen. Darko and Wes are going to play at BELOW average levels more often than not, Wayne will not continue this pace, Beasley likely will never get it, etc. That’s why there will likely need to be changes. However, consider for one moment how good this team would be if, as SnP said in one of the game threads, Kevin Love’s head was on Darko’s and his own body. Then you would have an awesome 1, 4, and 5.
I am happy with the team as is
Keeping two things in perspective. First, it is year three of a build. I know that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t want it sooner but the jump from last year would make Scott Bakula envious. The train has finally left the station.
Mostly though because as I’ve stated, I’d like to see what we already have. I don’t think any conclusions can be drawn regarding players over the last two seasons spare the fact they they all seemed confused and or frustrated.
Wayne has never played for an NBA coach until this season. He looks rather…different lately. We’ve seen players produce better before and after Rambust so I’m for using the horses in our own stable. Someone may emerge .
As long as the team is fun, and competitive, and the current players are improving which they have been, let’s see what happens. By midseason some fair assessments can be made regarding true needs. But for now I’m very happy watching the process and watching Adelman coach them up.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 12:22 PM CST reply actions
Sorry, see below
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Jan 22, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
I am a bit confused if this is year three of a build or if this is year 1 of build 3.0.
I have to agree that by mid season we should have a really good idea about most of these players and who can really play. Just the improvement in defense with mostly the same pieces in place is a great starting point for belief in the power of RA.
I also kind of like where things are going overall and don’t want to see them make a move just to shuffle the deck chairs.
With that said, if NO were to call tomorrow and offer up Gordon for any of our players not named Rubio or Love, Kahn should not even hesitate. But it really would have to be something good to jump on a deal right now.
I think the time for moves will come during the draft and FA. Assuming we manage to get a pick from Utah we can perhaps move up by throwing in one of the logjam front court players or maybe even give away a mid-first round pick plus someone on the roster for a good SG.
I won't argue your point, except...
Ellington would not be looking good if all those tough shots weren’t going down. At least I am not noticing a lot else he’s doing. I could be wrong.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
I want to see more from Wayne
He’s been impressive. Wes is playing better. Darko was incredible but he’s pulled this before. His track record more than anyone else creates a mountain of doubt. Let’s see how Webster plays, how Lee plays, how DWill plays (I like him), how the team plays at full strength (Beast). You are also developing assets. Increased performance from current players will get more value when RA determines what the true and urgent needs actually are.
The premise is accurate. The team undoubtedly will need one more stud to make the next quantum leap, I just don’t feel the urgency of others to go looking for it elsewhere (yet).
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 22, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Wes is almost out of negative WS/48 territory!
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

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