Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Events Cause Mariners To Lose To Rangers

Still Going to Look Ahead

Jeremylamb_medium

At 7-9, the Wolves are actually.....wait for it....respectable! (Of course that still leaves us dead last in our outrageously competitive division) So we thankfully haven't been mired in the equally outrageous process of thinking about the draft after just two weeks of the regular season.

That said, if the last few seasons have taught us anything, it's that it's never too early to think about the draft.

Last year, S-n-P made the very accurate assessment that this team needed two high quality players to put next to Kevin Love to win. That was amended by the end of the year to say that one of those high quality players had to be a point guard. Ricky Rubio: problem solved. Now it appears we need to amend that assessment again: the other high quality player needs to be a wing.

I still have high hopes that Martell Webster can provide consistently good play for this team. I still think Malcolm Lee can as well. I think Ellington is going to become increasingly valuable as he eases into the Doug Christie role in Adelman's system. I still hope the front office finds a way to trade for a Nic Batum or Ray Allen.

And, I hope they also find a way to get back into the first round of this draft, because there's talent there the Wolves would be very, very sorry to miss.

Star-divide

0. Anthony Davis - PF Kentucky


Now, I gotta tell you guys, this game was one of the most impressive showings I've ever seen in college ball, both from a freshman and a big man. Anthony Davis gets basketball. People are going to gravitate to his athleticism....and don't get me wrong, this guy is athletic....but there's so much more to him. He gets how to move off the pick-and-roll. He gets how to position himself for rebounds. He gets how to rotate on defense. His shot blocking is absolutely incredible, not because he gets a lot of them, but in the way he gets them. Davis is averaging 14 points, 10 rebounds and 5 blocks a game, shooting a ridiculous 63%. As a freshman. He's a perfect storm of , size, hops, talent and IQ on both ends of the floor.

Also, credit John Callipari for understanding what he had and adjusting his system for it. Cal is a guard's coach, and it showed early. For a couple weeks at the beginning of December, Doron Lamb and Marquis Teague were consistently taking more shots than Davis. In Kentucky's one loss (to Indiana), Lamb and Teague combined for 25 attempts. Davis had 4. Who are Doron Lamb and Marquis Teague? Exactly.

Now I'm not necessarily one to draft straight BPA. Kevin Love, Anthony Randolph, Michael Beasley and Derrick Williams. I'm not going to recommend drafting Jared Sullinger. I'm not going to recommend drafting Perry Jones. Thomas Robinson, Terrence Jones...no more power forwards. No more combo forwards. But I will recommend drafting Anthony Davis. He's that good.

Now, of course, the sum total of this is Anthony Davis is living up to his billing as the #1 overall pick. Meaning, he's going to be the #1 overall pick. Meaning....between our luck and the fact any first rounder we have will be from someone else....there's basically no way we'll actually be drafting him. He's on the list, but I'm listing him as #0. Should we if we can? Absolutely. Can we? No chance.

1. Jeremy Lamb - SG UConn


You guys are going to be sick of hearing this name by the end of the season. Like, seriously. You have no idea. I will be name dropping Jeremy Lamb every chance I get.

I really can't fully describe how perfect Lamb would be for this team. He fits in every way imaginable. He's athletic. He's smart. He can play equally well on or off the ball. He can shoot from anywhere. He gets to the rim. He gets to the foul line. He gets into the passing lanes. He handles the ball. He moves the ball. He's got ideal shooting guard size. He's got that Reggie Miller/Rip Hamilton natural instinct for finding the open spots on the floor. Next to Ricky Rubio? This guy's a star.

Pretty much all of the 'legacy' point guards in the NBA have had some sort of kickout shooter to run with. John Stockton had Jeff Hornacek. Mark Jackson of course had Reggie Miller. Gary Payton had Hersey Hawkins (a favorite of mine based on his name alone) and Dale Ellis. Jason Kidd had Jim Jackson, Jamal Mashburn, Penny Hardaway, Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles, now he has Dirk. Steve Nash had Dirk as well, and Michael Finley, then basically the entire Phoenix roster. Kidd and Nash even had each other for a while. When you have a point guard like Rubio, you need to find a guy for him to sling the ball to. Jeremy Lamb can definitely be that guy.

Usually when I do these things, I try to highlight a weakness or two, but I'm honestly struggling to find something to dislike about Lamb. He's at least solid in every area, physically, mentally and productively.

It's hard to tell what Lamb's draft stock is still. Some mocks have him as a top 5 pick. Some list him in the 10-13 range. I'd bet if S-n-P put him into the Hoopus Score right now, he'd come out a lot higher than #10. I don't know what it'd take to get him, but if it's not Love or Rubio, it'd be worth it.

2. John Henson - F/C UNC


Another of S-n-P's spot-on assessments for this team was needing a low-usage center who could rebound and block the hell out of the ball. For that, I'd say you want John Henson. This draft is a great opportunity to solve the Wolves' problems on the wings, but if we have a pick and Henson is on the board, the chance to solve the problem at center here would be too good to pass up.

This guy is a young Marcus Camby. A long, wirey, athletic big man with a hardcore ability to rebound and reject, and surprising versatility everywhere else. As a junior, Henson has maintained his sophomore marks of 10 rebounds and 3 blocks a game, while increasing his scoring efficiency and output, and assists, while cutting down on turnovers and fouls. He basically has nothing run for him, but is so good on the offensive glass and in transition that he's posted double figure scoring in all but two games this year so far. He started the season with a 12 point, 7 rebound, 9 block domination of Mich St, the proceeded to post three consecutive double doubles (remember that he's sharing paint space with another really good big man in Tyler Zeller). In UNC's one point loss to Kentucky, Henson gave up nothing to Anthony Davis (10-8-3 to Davis' 7-9-2).

Henson is somewhat of a stick figure. And he has critical issues at the free throw line. But if all you're asking him to do is anchor the defense and throw down Rubioops, then I'll gladly live with that.

3. Austin Rivers - SG Duke


The numbers will tell you Rivers is Lamb's equal, if not better, but there are a few differences between them that put them in slightly different tiers in my mind.

One is size. Lamb has a frame with length in particular that Rivers does not. It might seem like a small thing, but it can make a huge difference at the NBA level.

The second is that Lamb has shown the ability to find ways to contribute when his shot isn't falling. Rivers hasn't shown that yet. Part of it certainly is Lamb is a sophomore, but the point stands. With his build and singlemindedness as a scorer, I have worries that Rivers will be rather Foye/McCants-like those games where he isn't scoring in bunches.

The third is that Rivers is much more ball-dominant. The singular skill that will potentially make Rivers and NBA star is that no one can stay in front of him on the ball. He's that Monta Ellis loose cannon type. Standing alone, that's a remarkable skill to have in your favor. But having watched the Wolves play enough games to start drawing some conclusions, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the scoring/slashing type of guard is not the ideal player to put next to Rubio. Taking the ball out of Ricky's hands doesn't seem like the best thing to do, if a better option is on the table.

But again, Rivers has an ability to attack the basket that you don't often see. He'd be a big improvement over anything the Wolves have right now, so if he's the guy on the board when that hypothetical pick comes up, then take him.

5a. Harrison Barnes - G/F UNC


Ok, now before everyone riots, let's take a step back and reassess Barnes. Is he the super athlete he was hyped as coming in as a freshman? No. But it's increasingly looking like that isn't going to matter.

Barnes has obviously put in work, because he fixed the flaw everyone got on him for last season: scoring efficiency. Last year he was dismal. This year, he's been elite. His FG% is up 6% (42 to 48) and his 3pt% is up almost 10%, to 44%. He's also displaying a fairly effective post game (which is why I rank him ever so slightly ahead of option 5b) He's cut down his three point attempts in favor of getting to the line more often, and has shown much more defensive awareness.

He's not the next Kobe, and that initial expectation will always dismiss him in some people's minds. But with his size and improved shooting touch, he could easily be a Luol Deng/Paul Pierce, and I'd gladly take that on this team.

5b. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist - SF Kentucky


Just to address it up front, there are two small reasons why I'd take Barnes over Gilchrist. One is Barnes has more of a post game. The other is Barnes can play both the 2 and 3. Gilchrist is strictly a 3.

That said, the rest is basically a wash between the two. Ironically, I think Gilchrist will be hurt by the same thing that hurt Barnes: expectations. MKG is not an elite athlete. He's not a Gerald Wallace. He's not Rudy Gay. Nor is he super-versatile, like a Shawn Marion or Tayshaun Prince.

What Kidd-Gilchrist brings to the table is thorough basketball competency and a high floor. He shoots well, moves the ball well, and rebounds at a very high level. While his average athleticism limits his ceiling, he also has basically no chance of failing as a pro....he's guaranteed to be decent at worst. With his size and rebounding, I'd say we're looking at a Josh Howard type. Not bad at all.

Also worth watching:

Bradley Beal - SG Florida: The mocks like Beal a lot more (and Rivers a lot less) than I do. I guess my biggest concern is his size. He's legitimately small to be an NBA shooting guard. If you're going to stand 6'3" as a 2 guard in the NBA, you've got to be able to attack the hoop in a ridiculous way. Like a Dwyane Wade/Eric Gordon kind of way. I just don't see that working in Beal's favor. That said, he came into college as the top ranked shooting guard recruit, and hasn't done anything to disappoint.

Andre Drummond - C UConn: This dude is the opposite of Beal on the size scale....legitimately huge. 7', 250 lbs, and his wingspan has to be in the 7'3"-7'4" range. He's very raw...the difference in skill level between him and Anthony Davis is night and day. As a prospect, he's a top 5 pick, but for the Wolves, I don't know if I could recommend him. It'll be a few years before he's good, and a lot of his skill overlaps Love. He wouldn't solve the defensive or athletic problems in the frontcourt like Henson would. And he also has a very very troubling complex about the free throw line. Like, to a point where he's begun actively avoiding situations that might send him there. But he's clearly talented. And like they say, you can't teach size.

Quincy Miller - SF Baylor: Miller is an interesting prospect. He has tremendous size and reach, a sweet shooting stroke, and super high skill level. He also has torn an ACL. In terms of frame and potential, I'd much rather draft him than Gilchrist or Barnes. He's scoring on some crazy percentages for a perimeter player, and he's much smoother and more athletic than either of them. But that injury history in concerning, and he's inconsistent. There are nights when he looks like Tracy McGrady before the injuries, and nights when he looks like Tracy McGrady after the injuries, with no real rhyme or reason as to why.

Comment 250 comments  |  2 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

reading this excellent analysis makes me both..

very appreciative of your contribution on this site, and very sad we will not be able to draft any of these guys.

by bsg007 on Jan 22, 2012 8:03 PM CST reply actions  

very nice

Based on those prospects (and our team) it really sounds like wing or bust this offseason.

Hopefully our loss to Utah helps and we can get a 15th or 16th pick this year.

by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 8:21 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions  

I feel out of the loop

Around what pick range should we be expecting this year? I understand that is hard to answer, because there are still many games to be played.

In other words, what/who’s first rounder do we have?

by WooPig14 on Jan 22, 2012 8:32 PM CST reply actions  

Utah's 1st - Top 14 protected

Rubios - "Clinically PROVEN to Help Reduce Suckiness"

by PoohRubio on Jan 22, 2012 8:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I was going to correct you on the Kidd + Nash being on the same team

But damn, they were. A year and a half. Heck, Phoenix had Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash running their PG position at the same time. Too bad KJ fell apart early.

If Utah gets to the playoffs, the Wolves get a late first round pick. The Wolves could use that to trade up, but what would it take to do so? Pick + Beasley might get a pick a few slots earlier in the draft, but not enough to get to most of these guys. Draft Express does not love Rivers, but I think that will change over time. If he struggles, I could see him going back to school.

We do have the Memphis first rounder next year (1st rounder, lotto protected ‘13-’15), which is another possible throw in. Got it in the Jonny Flynn/Brad Miller trade.

by atlastata on Jan 22, 2012 8:34 PM CST reply actions  

yes he does

and he will likely be available where we will pick (14-19)

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 10:28 PM CST up reply actions  

mmmmaybe

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 10:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah....

I’ve felt for awhile now the 8th seed in the West is up for grabs

I would honestly bet money either us or the Jazz get it. Either way we win, right?

Also trading into the middle of the first 14-19 shouldn’t be too hard with assets we have (we could package our two protected picks or do a cap dump trade)

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 10:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Jazz pick may still hold value.

Cap @ 1 year lag might have some allure

by bustaone on Jan 22, 2012 11:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes I agree

That Jazz pick will be a first rounder at some point. Which means we will have two extra first round picks in the next handful of years to deal with.

i.e. if we REALLY have a player we like in this draft we can trade some future picks to get it

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 11:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I haven't been convinced he'll declare for the draft this year

If he does, definitely someone to look at. But my gut reaction right now is he’s staying another year

by Oceanary on Jan 23, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

You are almost certainly right.

That is why I am trying to rev the hype-train up enough to get him to enter. Not that I actually have that power… but it is fun to pretend.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

He’s going to have a shot on national tv against Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, and the Wildcats. If you have cable, Tuesday 24, 8:00 cst ESPN. Maybe a good game will get the hype moving a bit.

AJC: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope Proving his 5 Star Worth with Bulldogs

I haven’t watched much college ball this season, but I may try and catch that one.

by jianfu on Jan 23, 2012 9:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I like Lamb (either one) with a side of Oriakhi.

Rubios - "Clinically PROVEN to Help Reduce Suckiness"

by PoohRubio on Jan 22, 2012 9:07 PM CST reply actions  

I change my mind after every Wolves game

on whether an upgrade at wing or center is more crucial.

We go through some epic droughts that would be added by a guy that can sink the open shots Rubio creates.

On the other hand, watching the Jazz outrebound us terribly last game, a C who could pull down 8-12 boards per game and play a little D would seem the bigger help.

Thanks for the draft breakdown.

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra

by Wile E Coyote on Jan 22, 2012 9:57 PM CST reply actions  

Typo - *aided* by a guy that can sink

And just to be clear … I’m not pining for Shaq 2.0. Joel Prizz 2.0 would be just fine. Or Jeff Foster 2.0. Or Marcus Camby 2.0.

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra

by Wile E Coyote on Jan 22, 2012 9:59 PM CST up reply actions  

oh man

Marcus Camby 2.0 is actually aiming pretty damn high.

by TO12 on Jan 22, 2012 10:05 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Rebounding would be nice to add.

Something in my soul tells me that defensive rebounding should be teachable… Adleman can you do even more?

Just wishful thinking. And I understand what you are saying.

by bustaone on Jan 22, 2012 10:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe we just play Williams and Love together

and get a lockdown 2 and 3 to compensate for other issues.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Is Quincy Miller Rudy Gay?

Gay as a 6’9", 220 lbs. 18-year-old frosh at UConn:

55% true shooting (46% 2-pt; 47% 3-pt)
108 Ortg
15.3% usage
.37 fta/fga
.79 a/to; -3.28 ppr
7.5 rebounds/40
1.1 steals/40
2.6 blocks/40

And Miller as a 6’9", 200 lbs. 19-year-old frosh:

58% true shooting (50% 2-pt; 39% 3-pt)
108 Ortg
16.1% usage
.49 fta/fga
.86 a/to; -3.56 ppr
8 rebounds/40
1.1 steals/40
1.1 blocks/40

Next question: Is that a good thing or bad…? ;)

Gay had a bigger defensive impact as a freshman at UConn; Miller’s the better slasher. Gay’s probably the superior athlete. But overall pretty similar. If Miller ends up like Gay did in the draft (that is, drafted a little later than some might think, and then having his rights traded), he might be a candidate for the Wolves if they get into the draft. David Kahn hasn’t been shy about his fascination for a player like Rudy Gay.

by jianfu on Jan 22, 2012 9:59 PM CST reply actions  

has he done anything in the pro's yet?

can’t say I’ve been keep too close of tabs on him

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 11:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Last I checked

He was looking lioe a serviceable pg down in Memphis. Not sure if he has kept it up though.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 1:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Before that ACL tear...

…I was hearing comparisons to even Kevin Durant

by Oceanary on Jan 22, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

that may be worth a gamble

he can’t possibly be going top 20?

I’d gamble a sub 20 pick on that.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

He'll go in the lottery

Unless a pre-draft physical raises big red flags, someone will be willing to go with him. The NBA is fairly starved for quality wing players

by Oceanary on Jan 23, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

ACLs take a while

but these days, they usually heal completely. I’m intrigued.

by Dumbhead62 on Jan 23, 2012 12:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Two Syracuse guys projected to go 1st round

And they are at positions of need for us (SG and C)

/KAHNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

by DukePettyjohn on Jan 22, 2012 10:11 PM CST reply actions  

Don't forget the smiles.

As an SU guy I can report that Waiters has a pretty good smile and Melo, while goofy looking, has an endearing smile. Kris Joseph also has a great smile and will be in the draft mix.

Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!

by NOLACuse on Jan 23, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Fab Melo is just an awesome name

he has too be good

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

My as unbiased as it can be opinion is that Fab will become at least a worthwhile NBA player.

He has the potential to be a really good center (not sure about great though). He is figuring out just how to use his good size, is in shape (probably his biggest problem last year) and he is a block machine.

Clear eyes, full bologna sandwiches!

by NOLACuse on Jan 24, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Manther?

Oceanary or others, any idea what it would take to liberate the Manther and send him up north? Do we have the assets to get him?

I see him as the idea compliment to KLove in the paint. Would they do DWilliams for Manther and a protected pick by any chance?

by Down in the Valley on Jan 22, 2012 10:18 PM CST reply actions  

No idea

Charlotte is a bizarre house right now. Teams with no identity are impossible to scout. But they’re run by Rich Cho, so it is possible, it won’t be cheap or easy

by Oceanary on Jan 23, 2012 12:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Rumor was that Cho was trying to move up so Portland would be able to draft him before he was let go and ended up in Charlotte.

I think he understands the Manther has the rare combination of elite shot blocking and strong defensive rebounding. I don’t know how long it’s going to take him to get the fouls under control, but I doubt Charlotte moves him.

600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".

by Airete on Jan 23, 2012 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

They have a weird bit at the 4/5

Mullens, DJ White, and Ty Thomas are all there, as well. Mullens and White are showing some promise. The Manther has had 2 really good outings in his past 3 games.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

They also...

….can’t figure out what to do with Boris Diaw

by Oceanary on Jan 23, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

BJ Mullens...

A perfect compliment to Rubio. The Wolves should be exploring options to get this guy.

by Ray Williams? on Jan 23, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree

He’s a center who doesn’t rebound or defend his position well. He can shoot well, but that’s about it. His skills are redundant on this roster, and he doesn’t do anything that we need our center to do (rebounding, shot-blocking).

Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.

by nja700 on Jan 23, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Here’s their comp.

I suppose we should both start calling him his name. (I had forgotten about the Byron bit.)

Since getting minutes away from OKC, he seems to be pointed in the right direction.

Mullens is still below average on a number of fronts while scoring more per 48 than the average 5. He also shoots free throws well. Biyombo has a better wp48, he’s a better rebounder, he’s miles ahead with blocked shots, and he puts up more pps. He also fouls like a maniac.

Mullens gives you production very close to what you get with Darko. Biyombo gives you the promise of better rebounding and defense once he can get a hold of his turnovers and fouls.

(I know you weren’t making the Biyombo comp. I have a soft spot for the Manther. He was the perfect player for this team.)

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think he's gettable.

I’ll be honest, I really would just like to combine Mullens’ proclivity for ooping he displayed at Ohio State with Rubio’s love of alleying.

by Ray Williams? on Jan 23, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Why would we trade Williams for Manther?

Williams has been productive when he has played. Manther has not

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/biyombi01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide02.html

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Because he currently has a...

block-rate of 9%, and his ACB record implies that is not an aberration.

For comparison, Dikembe Mutombo had a career block-rate of 6.3% and his best season was at 8.8%. Biyombo is a very special player.

BTW; I’m not sure I would do the trade… just making the argument.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Defensive rebounding above 20% with that block rate.

He could develop into a very good low usage center if he cuts his PF rate substantially in the coming years.

600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".

by Airete on Jan 23, 2012 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be surprised if the...

rebound rate rises either. His ACB performance indicates it might.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

For the record

If there is any way a trade like this would be possible
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7rre6x3

I would do it in a heart beat.

I don’t know what CHA price is, but maybe taking the Thomas contract off their hands and adding a protected pick to the deal might get it done (also, Thomas for his career is not a bad player, he just sucks balls now)

I don’t hate Biyombo’s upside. I just wouldn’t have drafted him over Williams and still would not trade Williams for him, however I would take him in a different deal

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

throw some protected picks in?

I REALLY like my Beasley/Randolph for Thomas/Henderson trade. I would absolutely be interested in trying to add Biyombo to that

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

My love of Biyombo

was reduced a bit when I looked at factors that contribute to wins (here). I found that blocks, controlling for a bunch of other things, basically don’t matter. I’ve wondered whether altered shots (versus actual blocks) are what’s really important, but are not recorded, but I would guess that the rate of altered shots is pretty highly correlated with getting actual blocks.

But I still love the freak show aspect of adding Biyombo to Love and Rubio. It would have been something to see.

by Madison Dan on Jan 23, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Other thing to consider with blocks....

I read an article a while back (can’t find it though) that should how teams shoot a lot more long 2s (topical no?) when a notorious shot-blocker is in the game. This means that the actual block-rate will drop even while the “block threat” is still having an impact.

To add to this. I spent some time looking at college block rates historically. There are a lot of examples of guys who have their highest block rate their freshman year. This is especially the case with guys who had freakish block rates. This says to me that teams simply stop trying when they no they are faced with a block machine.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

That's interesting.

I don’t think it would be hard to compare block rates to opponent shooting locations using hoopdata. I’ll add that to my to-do list.

It still seems a little strange, though, because to work in the context of my model (which include defensive rating), a player’s reputation as a shot blocker would need to be independent of the recorded shot blocking rate, if the effect on the opponent’s shot locations adds wins. Otherwise we’d still see a correlation between shot blocking and wins, it would just be an outsized effect relative to what one would expect from the blocks themselves.

by Madison Dan on Jan 23, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

True.

what exactly would we expect if my story is true?

Would it be an exponential increase in defensive-efficiency with increasing block%? Or would it be logarithmic with the ceiling wherever the block rate makes going inside just as appealing as a mid-range shot?

Either way…. you are right that if blocks are important, they should be correlated with wins.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

I did some quick-and-dirty regressions using the data from my FanPost

trying to explain DRtg as a function of steals, total rebounds, blocks, and turnovers (all pace adjusted). Rebounds and steals matter (t-stats of -6.6 and -4.2, respectively), but blocks really don’t (t-stat of -1.5), even when I add in squared blocks. The overall R2 is about .39, so there’s still plenty left to explain.

I think you’re on the right track with respect to what we’d expect to see — one way or another, blocks would affect a lot more possessions than the blocks themselves, but there’d still be a relationship between blocks and wins.

by Madison Dan on Jan 23, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Outside looking in

I think that the current style swat into stands block really doesn’t change much.. Essentially a kick ball.. If somehow blocks were more related to turnovers I think we would see more of a correlation.

by bustaone on Jan 23, 2012 11:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

That could be.

There’s a big difference between the “controlled” block where the defender gets possession and the “show” block where they launch it into the cheap seats.

by Madison Dan on Jan 23, 2012 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

you would have to expect that effective fg% would drop when

a notorious shot blocker was on the court even if he wasn’t picking up blocks.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.

by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 23, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

The argument becomes a tiny bit like one about outfielders with great throwing arms.

The other team doesn’t try to advance on the basepaths, then…. But does the outcome benefit the team with the gunner in Right Field, or not?

"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."

by feral on Jan 23, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Swat City...

…if Charlotte wins the lotto and gets Anthony Davis?

by jianfu on Jan 23, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Davis is good

Silly good.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

They'd have the best assortment of defensive power forwards in the league, that's for sure

They already have two shot-blocking guys that jump like they’re on pogo sticks, so I dunno if they’d need another. They’d take him, but I assume that they would look to trade Tyrus or Biyombo (probably Tyrus).

Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.

by nja700 on Jan 23, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Because the Manther can play center

And he is showing signs of being a defensive rebounding shot blocking monster if he can get his fouling under control. He’d do all sorts of things for the team with a really, really, really low usage rate.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Which is why

we should have looked to get him in the draft around pick 6 or 7 (where he went/also what CHA traded to get him was relatively nothing (taking on Maggette’s contract right?) we could have easily done that)

or trade something non-williams for him

I’m pro BB…but Williams is the better basketball player. If we trade Williams it should be for something with more immediate impact, no?

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm legitimately starting to worry a bit that Williams...

….is a hedge for a certain something not getting signed by Wednesday. Hopefully the team will come to its senses and give Love the Westbrook deal, but crazier things have happened.

That being said, Williams can be a pretty damn good player and he will still have to figure out a way to eventually get 30 mpg on a team with Kevin Love playing the same position. Even if Love splits some more time at the 5, you’d be throwing his minutes over to matchups and situations more than you’d like with a guy with that much talent. This is a good problem to have, but…well, I just wish they could have found a way to get Biyombo.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with everything you've said

And you know me. Huge Williams fan. If Love signs the deal I do think we need to look into trading Williams.

However, wouldn’t keeping Williams be where trying to trade for BB comes into play? BB/Love/Williams front court baby!!!!!!! BB guards the best forward/center, Love guards the next best post player, Williams guards the worst one.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know

I just want them to sign Love at this point. If they don’t do that, it’s time to get stupid.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

If they don't sign Love...

I may start making calls to see which team want s a new fan.

I love Rubio, but it would be hard to have hope for a team that let Love go when they didn’t need to.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

There is one trade

Where if Love doesn’t sign we might not come out too badly and that would be

Ibaka/Harden/Sefalosha/Maynor

I know I have a history of Harden lovin, but this is the one trade I could see being both plausible (as OKC would look at the mega dynasty that would be about to take place) and return some value.

I WANT us to give Love the MAX. Just to be clear, for as much as I want James Harden as a Wolf….my preference is to keep the guy we got.

But, considering the option Love doesn’t sign: Rubio/Harden/Williams/Ibaka would be a playoff core and you would have assets to trade (Maynor, Ridnour, Sefalosha, Randolph, Beasley contract) to pick up a small forward (Nic Batum maybe?)

But let’s sign the guy. Should have happened after LAC game

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

They’re not trading Ibaka or Harden, let alone both, let alone with Thabo and Maynor.

Even for Love, that trades neeeeever gonna happen.

by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 23, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Well I hope this situation never happens

But yes they absolutely would.

They gonna give Harden 15 mil to come off the bench or give it to Love to start?

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

They're going to continue to suppress Harden's stats so they can get a better deal?

I dunno.

Either way, they’re not trading 3 starting-caliber players and one of the better backup points in the league for anyone not named Dwight Howard.

You’re underselling Ibaka big time in this too, I think. I don’t think they’d trade him for DWill straight-up; hell, I don’t think I would. Ibaka’s legit.

by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 23, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you might be under-selling Love then

Knicks gave three starters (Felton, Gallinari, Chandler) for Melo, I get that Harden for sure is better than those three….but I mean if we have to trade our top 10 player…..we better get three starting-caliber players to get him.

Harden will not sign an extension with the Thunder. Next summer he will walk into 25 front offices and walk out with a Max salary offer the Thunder won’t be able to match. He’ll be traded by next trade deadline

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

well we'd be the Nuggets

in this equation

I was suggesting that Love>Melo

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm just saying

that a team with smart mgmt like the Thunder probably isn’t going to repeat the mistake that the Knicks made.

I think Westbrook will go before Harden.

by Dumbhead62 on Jan 23, 2012 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Right but they also

are going to be unable to pay Harden unless they drop Westbrook.

But yes, I agree to an extent with what you are saying

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

They can pay him as long as they want to.

It’ll get expensive, but if they are contending they may choose this route.

600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".

by Airete on Jan 23, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats not true

They just pay a lot more with tax. If the owner is cool with it then they can afford whoever they want. Oklahoman had an article that stated just that. The owner is willing to get taxed to keep both

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Okay

that’s encouraging to hear. Counter point to both you and Airete since it’s relatively the same response.

Harden gonna sign it? When he can play for any other contending team, start, get paid and be the focal point of the team?

He might indeed sign it and it would be very cool if he did…I remain skeptical till it happens though.

I mean if Dallas pulls off this D12 and DWill thing…Harden could start for them and make the Chris Bosh cash too on a more well-balanced big 3. Just one example.

He could come here for a better fitting big three, LA Lakers, etc.

Maybe he stays…but it seems like an odd choice as there is nothing in Harden’s way from being a superstar on a winning team except the team he is on

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Depends

If they have cap space for his max under the limit (most likely not possible with your above scenario) they can. Since OKC holds his bird rights they can go over the cap to sign him and offer a larger max.

Dont see him as a superstar (well by my definition at least) but to each his own

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

If Dallas pulls off the D12 DWill thing they will be capped out with Dirk.

Harden can play for them if he likes the mid-level except that OKC would match and keep him.

600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".

by Airete on Jan 23, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Also

I buy that they’ll trade Westbrook before they’d deal Harden.

by Dumbhead62 on Jan 23, 2012 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I would

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Im very negative towards Williams

so this might be biased but I dont see him being a 3 at all. Hell be a good 4 but unfortunately we dont need one (if love signs)

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Regardless of what position he plays

he’s a damn good basketball player and a better basketball player than Biyombo.

Ultimately the fight might not be the best, but if we can showcase him properly he could net us a prize more valuable than he or BIyombo.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree completely

Thats why I have no problem with him or drafting him at 2. I would never have drafted BB with the 2nd pick. I just feel that going forward saying our core is RR/Love/Williams or that he is untradable is building a fantasy basketball team and forgetting that they need to play together. I dont see him as a wolf long term unless he makes dramatic changes or Love leaves

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Here are the SG's to look at for the Wolves

1.) Brad Beal
2.) Tony Wroten
3.) Austin Rivers
Dark Horse: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

Brad Beal is the man, and will be so in the pro’s. He attacks the basket, can shoot it from anywhere on the court and is better at both off the ball offense and team defense than Eric Gordon. He also has the good head factor.

Tony Wroten to me seems like the Derrick Williams to Tyreke Evans-Michael Beasley: I.e. I think his game reminds me a lot of Evans if he had a better head on his shoulders. He’s a super physical and athletic beast that just attacks the basket relentlessly, but he plays within himself better than Evans and from what I can tell is not a dbag which is always a plus.

Austin Rivers and Ricky Rubio would massacre the NBA for years to come on pick and roles.

Ever since vj110 pimped me out to KCP I fell in love with him. The guy has some ridiculous upside.

Wroten in my estimation is the guy to get as A) he is probably the guy who is both best and will be available and B) While upside is nothing to gamble with, I would bet he probably has the highest ceiling of all the SG’s coming out in the draft. His athletic ability mixed with his game makes him a very dangerous talent to place a mid round (Jazz) pick on.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 10:27 PM CST reply actions  

You're way off on Tony Wroten.

He’s a PG. Think a bigger, worse shooting Brandon Jennings

by DukePettyjohn on Jan 23, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Hah,

a “worse shooting Brandon Jennings” is maybe not the description I’d put in the help wanted ads for our next SG.

by Madison Dan on Jan 23, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

He's hardly a pg

He might play it right now

but the guy is 6-5, 220 and attacks the rim like a mad man.

He’s a 2

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

DX thinks otherwise

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tony-Wroten-5250/

Ive also heard he plays offball a lot at Washington, never seen to verify so take witha grain of salt

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I've watched a lot of Washington games and I followed him in college before and after the ACL injury

He’s too much of a playmaker to not be a 1 and he’s too awful of a shooter to be a 2. If you think Wes is a bad shooter, you’re in for a treat with Wroten.

If he wasn’t 6’5, this wouldn’t even be a debate

by DukePettyjohn on Jan 23, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a silly point though

He IS 6’5.

he attacks the basket like crazy. I don’t see how he and Rubio couldn’t play together. there would be 35 shots at the rim a night from our back court. You mix that in with Thrilla and Love’s enjoyment of the three point arc and you have a basketball team

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

One bonus

More rebounds for Love?

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Again he's not a PG

and to answer your question I’d very much gamble on a guy with the tools and athleticism Wroten has and pray that Adleman can get him to shoot.

Derrick Rose anyone? Guy was broke when he came into the league.

Not that Wroten is Rose….but shooting seems to be something that is fairly teachable even at the older age. Defense, slashing, ball handling, playmaking…those things aren’t as coachable

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

He is a PG. Agree to disagree on that I guess.

Derrick Rose is 50 times the athlete Tony Wroten is.

And have to seen Wroten shoot? His mechanics are a mess. Who other than Rose has made dramatic strides in their shooting after being a terrible shooter in college?

by DukePettyjohn on Jan 23, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

kevin love

Russel westbrook
DeWayne Wade
Jason Kidd

just off the top of my head

I’ll give you the fact that the only players I have listed are super stars…but none of these guys would have been nearly as good had they not improved their shooting from college.

Probably the separate for Wroten will be whether he will be able to improve his shooting or not in terms of how good he can be…but it is something that absolutely can improve

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 9:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey!

You misspelled Wade’s name wrong. It’s supposed to be misspelled “Dwyane!”

"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012

by Cynical Jason on Jan 24, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

but can he shoot?

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.

by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 23, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

His comp is

Tyreke Evans with a good head on his shoulders.

He’s smarter than Evans and a better overall baller, but the style is roughly the same-attacks the basket, makes plays, doesn’t shoot all that well though

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Also if Ellington becomes Doug Christie

I believe we will have found our SG

Christie was great for the Kings…easily good enough to start with Rubio and Love

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 10:42 PM CST reply actions  

My first reaction to Oceanary above, yes.

Also, in order to fit this “role,” Wayne Ellington would need to get involved with one of the all-time controlling, weird sports wives. Let’s not wish that on poor Wayne.

"Opinion ...a confession."

by feral on Jan 23, 2012 8:07 AM CST up reply actions  

As optimistic as I am about the Wolves

I really don’t see BTP (Bring the Pain Wayne) becoming Doug Christie at the defensive end

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I think first things first

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=79pthef

we make this trade. Make it into the playoffs and have some fun.

Then we either take the Jazz pick or trade into the mid first round (like trading Jazz/Memphis picks for one pick in 2012) and take Wroten.

Good plan. Go team.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 10:53 PM CST reply actions  

I don't know why he sucks this year

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomaty01.html

but he is almost always +.1 WS/48, and +15 PER

He’s a pretty good player. I’d rather pay him than Anthony Randolph for our swing post player…as he can actually block some shots, rebound and play defense

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

you might even be able to get a future 1st

out of the deal for taking his contract.

that’s a trade you look into, if possible. Two professional basketball player to add to what we have, even if they are role players, gives us flexibility to trade Ridnour if a good trade comes up. Give us some leverage in trading Williams if that’s what we choose to do.

Also it just makes us pretty solid this year and playoff bound without giving anything of value up

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 22, 2012 11:15 PM CST up reply actions  

So may I ask what you are basing this on?

He absolutely is playing like crap right now, but I can’t say I’ve seen him play for a few years. However the AS test says he is a very effective defenisve player for his career and largely productive in almost every season but this one.

Is this not the classic SnP “past production” type of upside/potential to buy low on?

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Also

I think I’d rather pay Thomas 7.5 a year than Randolph 6-8, which he will probably get (Amir Johnson is a good frame of reference)

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Its very well written, and an interesting read, but you basically went and picked a bunch of guys that they won’t be able to draft. I mean, Davis you admitted, but Lamb is practically guaranteed top 5 for the reasons you listed. Barnes? MKG? A little out of this team’s reach, even if they get the Utah pick.

The only guys that seem gettable are guys like Rivers and Henson, for obvious reasons too. Rivers has huge holes in his game and Henson is likely to bust (seriously, he looks exactly like Brandon Wright and Anthony Randolph did, which haven’t turned out so well).

I think looking at some of the mid first guys might be better. Terrence Ross, Tony Wroten, Fab Melo, Will Buford, Patric Young, Tyler Zeller, etc, etc, are all guys that look available in that Utah pick range that would fill a need for the team.

by shangrila on Jan 23, 2012 5:01 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Jae Crowder

Marquette seems to have this pattern of developing gritty, upperclassman wings who get taken later in the draft. Jae Crowder might be this year’s model.

by jianfu on Jan 23, 2012 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

John Henson to me

seems like Biyombo but not nearly as raw. He’s an athletic freak that could guard 3 positions.

If he’s a top 6 pick he might be disappointing…but anyone that can play defense WILL play in the NBA. If he fell to like 13 or so and the Wolves still don’t have a center I would absolutely endorse trading up for him

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

He's another possible low usage center.

He is 45 lbs lighter and two years older though. He may have trouble with the size of NBA 5s.

600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".

by Airete on Jan 23, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Personality separates the two

Biyombo has KG fire which could elevate him to another level

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I know this doesn't amount to much..

…but his favorite two players are Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love. It was a match made in heaven! ;)

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

We missed our golden opportunity

I wanted BB in the worst way, he would be the perfect compliment to this team. We can dream but I dont think the cats get rid of him unless they are forced to.

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I like him

but I think you’re over-selling the guy a little. 7 teams passed on him too….I feel like if he was that “can’t miss” he wouldn’t have lasted that long in a supposed bad draft (which not coincidentally appears to be better than it actually was)

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Biyombo was drafted 7th.

(Five teams passed on him, given that Cleveland picked twice high. You could say six if you count the trade for the pick, I guess.)

"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."

by feral on Jan 23, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah

either way.

multiple teams with big-time needs in a weak draft passed on him. I’m not saying he won’t be good, but if he were can’t miss…he wouldn’t have dropped to 7

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

This statement just doesn't make sense

The best players aren’t always drafted at the top of the draft.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm

I agree that the best players in any specific draft are obviously not always in the top 3.

But “can’t miss” prospects don’t fall to 7 in weak drafts.

Airete’s comment below is the correct assessment of the player. He might end up being the best player in the draft. He also might end up never playing more than 20 mpg because he so poor offensively no one can justify playing him

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

We missed our golden opportunity
I wanted BB in the worst way, he would be the perfect compliment to this team. We can dream but I dont think the cats get rid of him unless they are forced to.

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions

I was thrown off by the “golden opportunity” and “we can dream” etc. It seemed very strong to me in regards to a guy who currently is not good enough offensively or at controlling the fouls to justify keeping him on the court.

I would put “can’t miss” and “golden opportunity” into the same category…but yes, I’m guilty of putting words in someone else’s mouth….

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I was also under the impression that you were Derrick Williams biggest Canis Hoopus booster going into the draft.

That’s okay too. You may end up right, but I don’t remember you being excited about Biyombo. Could be my faulty memory though.

600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".

by Airete on Jan 23, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

Well let’s put this into perspective.

at pick 2 I was all about Williams. If we kept the pick he was the right choice.

I would have been cool with Biyombo around 7 (where he went) as I just see him being way to much of a risk for a team that couldn’t really screw another draft up.

Williams is the better basketball player, and more than likely will forever be the better basketball player. I will though admit that Biyombo’s upside does represent a player who would have been an insanely good fit as a Wolf.

I was all for trying to trade into a pick that got Biyombo, for example I really liked the idea of trading to Toronto, getting Derozan and then drafting JoVal or BB.

But at pick 2 I felt and still feel Williams was the correct choice. Even if the fit may never be perfect and he will have to succeed somewhere else, I think it was the right choice.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

In about a year and a month or so

we are really going to be regretting passing on Val.

by zebano on Jan 23, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe

Or Maybe Williams is just the man and it won’t matter

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup

I had a serious man crush on the Manther and Big V heres to hoping either team gets Drummond and decides to bail on them

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I've regretted it since draft night.

I wanted a trade down for Val, but would’ve happily taken him at #2.

by Simitar on Jan 23, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

He wasn't can't miss. He was a very specific role player with huge limitations

That said data suggest that both shot blocking and rebounding translate well across leagues. He is a flawed player that as a prospect looked like he might turn into a 5 that was a defensive rebounding and shot blocking monster. Early returns bear that out. I doubt many teams regret passing on him this year. In 3-5 years I think that might be another story.

600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".

by Airete on Jan 23, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes

this is correct.

Which is why I was fine passing on him.

But I’m not denying he couldn’t be effective.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

It would have been a big risk and I doubt Kahn would have been around to be validated by the pick turning out.

It isn’t clear that it was the right or wrong pick, but he isn’t disappointing those who liked him as a prospect.

600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".

by Airete on Jan 23, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Him going 7th

was the right place for him.

Had we trade into that pick I would have been all about it

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

My point

On missing the opportunity was that I felt his value was at the lowest point. He had serious question marks with age, skill, and contract issues. We could have made a more lopsided trade at that point than now and into the future.

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

He's not a C though

I don’t know how people can even suggest he could be. 6-10/11 twigs don’t play C in the NBA.

by shangrila on Jan 23, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know

if we are talking about Biyombo or Henson, but Love would be the center in the equation

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

He's talking about Henson.

Biyombo has plenty of size to play C.

by Simitar on Jan 23, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/biyombi01.html

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/john-henson

Seems like it’s kinda a wash

6-9 230
6’10 220

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Draft express

BB – 6’9" 240 with almost 7’7’’ wingspan
Henson 6’10" 200

Take the ones you trust more

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Correction

220 for henson on updated blog on DX and on Tarheel homepage

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Biyombo...

however, has arms that defy reality.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

seems like Henson has long arms too no?

I can’t find arm length for him

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

probably isn't out there...

but there is no way they rival Biyombo’s.

Biyombo out-paced the next biggest arm to body ratio in DX history by a significant margin.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

He has Thabeet's wingspan

That’s caaaahhhhh-raaayyy-zeeee on a guy who is 6’9".

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Also, for once I'll appeal to the eye test

vs.

I’ve seen the Manther bang with Dwight Howard. I cannot fathom what would happen with that stick figure creature at the 5 against Superman.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Biyombo

looks to me like he’s going to be a taller, heavier, more athletic Ben Wallace.

I’ll take that.

by Simitar on Jan 23, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Dunno

Sorry SNP dont see it%

Did I use that (%) right?

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Well....

we all know that Biyombo is really 32, so of course he looks more “physically mature”.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

He, Wes

and Methusaleh share a birth day, I heard.

Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.

by JMGrady on Jan 24, 2012 6:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Give me some

Blonde Lamb Love and I’ll be a happy man.

by Ineffable on Jan 23, 2012 7:50 AM CST reply actions  

Scotsman, are you?

Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.

by JMGrady on Jan 24, 2012 6:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, there's no true one . . .

"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012

by Cynical Jason on Jan 24, 2012 11:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Out of curiosity

Why does anyone expect anything from Webster, let alone “consistently good production” given thst he has never been either of those things in his career?

Not sure what you mean re: Drummond not fittint either. He is a monster defensive presence who woyld cover all of Loves weaknesses on thwt end. He will go higher than Henson though so it is moot.

Also, Barnes as PP? Pierce had a few years north of 24-25 ppg. Barnes will never scratch thst. Not sure where you come up with these things.

Anyway your point is dead on. There is lots of talent thst will probably come out so I really hope we can land that Utah pick. Henson, Rivers or even Doron Lamb (who is actually quite good) are all real possibilities with a pick in the teens.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 10:30 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

We need to talk about KCP...

enough to get him to enter the draft though.

Right now he is too under the radar.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Ya that's my worry

Here’s what we need to do vj…

there are literally going to be 5-6 SG’s in this draft that are career starter caliber and then another 2-3 that I don’t like as much (Terence Ross) that are considered top 25 picks….there could potentially be 7 SG’s in the top 25, 5 of which in my estimation will be sweet

we need them all to come out, and then fleece either Wroten, Rivers, KCP or DLamb with a mid first round pick. I like all 4 of those (probably in that order) to be at worst rotation players on playoff teams

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm down...

you want to start calling KCP to tell him he should enter the draft.

Tell him Canis Hoopus guarantees that they will complain if the Wolves don’t draft him with the Utah pick.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

I ran the raw hoopus scores for DX's top 15 or so picks + kcp...

….and he’s at #4 right now behind Davis, Michael Gilchrist, and Bradley Beal. Followed by Thomas Robinson, Jeremy Lamb, Andre Drummond, Harrison Barnes, Tony Wroten, John Henson, Quincy Miller, Doron Lamb, Terrence Jones, Austin Rivers, and Perry Jones.

This doesn’t have per possession efficiency rates worked into the equation. It’s just (reb+pts+ast+steals+blocks-to-missedft)games weighted for age and defined NBA position.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

One question about the hoopus score

What is “defined position”? Do you have sort of a spectrum for position value (e.g., when there’s a performance push between two prospects, does one win out by virtue of playing a more difficult position to fill)? Or is it more along the lines of trying to identify tweener danger?

by jianfu on Jan 23, 2012 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

It's also a question of...

….will they be able to take their game into the pros? I call it my Evan Turner lesson. Tweeners who don’t have an NBA position get docked but so do, say, 6-7 wing players who put up 30+ usg rates while running the college point. Their game simply doesn’t exist in the pros.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

I see

Interesting approach.

by jianfu on Jan 23, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you saying you just use...

raw numbers not per/40?

I would be surprised in KCP doesn’t beat-out Beal using per-40 pace-adjusted.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Just raw

And that’s more of a laziness thing more than anything else. I can use sports reference to upload a bunch of data into a spread sheet while I have to go over to DX and type everything in for pace adjusted.

That being said, it is the best way to go and, running the numbers on those two with pace adjusted/40 numbers, KCP goes from a game score of 16.23 to 18.4 and Beal goes from 16.47 to 17.3.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the effort.

I definitely know your pain there. I would kill for more easily downloadable data. Much of what I want is already on the internet, it just takes a lot of work to put it into a workable format.

I really want to get translation coefficients and variance for all statistics NCAA to NBA, but it would take a ton of work to go through and plug every NBA-bound college athlete over the last n years into a data-set.

Can we get a get a Canis Hoopus intern/graduate-student? I would pony up a 6-pack in payment.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Also...

…KenPom is charging this year. It’s just $20, but…come on KenPom!

I’ll offer up a million Hoopus Points for the intern.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 23, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

If you can point me to the site and data you want

I’ll write you a perl script that scrapes the pages for the data you want and puts it into csv format (comma delimited – readable by all spreadsheet programs).

by zebano on Jan 23, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

ALL OF THEM!!!!

More seriously…

If you could get the DX NCAA and Euro data for each year from 01/02 on that would be awesome. Even better would be linking it to everything on hoopdata in the form of ….

player, fresh, soph, jun, sen, (all via DX) rookie, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, ……. (via hoopdata)
john doe
example jones

I don’t know how easy that would be though.

The other project would be stripping 82games form that irritation player by player view into a csv file with all of the players listed down a row.

BTW;
I really need to learn to program… I have some academic work that also requires some trickery of that nature, but have been hesitant to spend the time learning any programing outside of data analysis in R.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Try this

Codecademy.com (Teaches you coding)

Saw it on CNN.com its free and sounds cool. Havent started yet but am looking forward to it

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Well if you have any specific questions you can direct them my way

I have a table tennis tournament on Saturday so I’ll probably get this started some night when the Wolves don’t have a game. Web page scraping is one thing that Perl is absolutely great at. Getting the output in the right format for you is going to be the tricky part.

As WolvesBigTicket points out there are a ton of good resources around the web the hard part is figuring out which ones are legit. One thing I highly suggest is that you have 3-5 small projects in mind when you start because if you don’t immediately apply your knowledge you tend to forget it. It’s ancient but mostly still applicable but I know this tutorial is good:

http://www.sthomas.net/roberts-perl-tutorial.htm

This is for Perl which I mainly use for quick and dirty data collation. For more serious things like actually writing applications I suggest learning C#/.NET (assuming windows programming though reasonable ports exist). I do driver development and thus still program in C/C++ at my job which I don’t recommend anyone use unless they must.

You can direct questions to zebano@yahoo.com (this is a 10+ year old email address so I apologize if it gets mixed into the spam filter or sits in all the stuff that doesn’t get filtered).

by zebano on Jan 23, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

if you actually come up with a dataset even remotely similar to the one I described, you are a hero.

The projects I currently have are more formatting and generally toying with existing datasets than scraping. I have been told I need to learn Perl and/or Python, and it is probably high time I start.

Anyway, thanks for giving it a shot.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

How difficult is web scripting vs standard oop stuff?

I’m taking a java class at the moment but wouod luie to learn some of that stuff when I have time.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 5:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

wouod luie?

F this phone.

*would like

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 5:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

dang autocorrect.

Just because I usually type wouod luie, it doesn’t mean that’s what I always want to say.

by LoveTo on Jan 23, 2012 6:31 PM CST up reply actions  

If you can program in one language you can learn another

Has been my experience. The first one is slow, the next two are tedious and after that you have a good idea of what you need to learn and how to do it. You may get some difficulties if you slip into functional programming (i.e. Lisp) or something odd like that but the tutorials on the web are enough to get me started on just about anything nowadays and from there you need to find the appropriate reference manual.

by zebano on Jan 25, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

You can paste directly into google spreadsheets from dx (i just figured this out...duh)

Here’s the unadjusted-for-age-and-position raw production game score for every player on their stat page. I’m basically adding points+reb+ast+blocks+steals-ftm-to and then dividing by games played and then a quarter just to keep the score from being too huge.

Marshawn Powell Arkansas 13.625
Doug McDermott Creighton 10.975
Mike Scott Virginia 10.925
Thomas Robinson Kansas 10.725
Tony Mitchell North Texas 10.7
Damian Lillard Weber State 10.6
Javon McCrea Buffalo 10.575
De’Mon Brooks Davidson 10.525
Herb Pope Seton Hall 10.525
Jared Sullinger Ohio State 10.325
C.J. McCollum Lehigh 10.25
Mike Moser UNLV 10.25
Trevor Mbakwe Minnesota 10.2
Reggie Hamilton Oakland 10.175
Julian Boyd Long Island 10.15
Mike Muscala Bucknell 10.1
Rakim Sanders Fairfield 10.05
Arsalan Kazemi Rice 10.05
Royce White Iowa State 10.05
Greg Mangano Yale 10.025
Kyle O’Quinn Norfolk State 9.975
JaMychal Green Alabama 9.9
Draymond Green Michigan State 9.85
Alex Young IUPUI 9.775
Ricardo Ratliffe Missouri 9.775
Eric Griffin Campbell 9.7
Ken Horton Central Conn. 9.675
Henry Sims Georgetown 9.675
Anthony Davis Kentucky 9.675
Andrew Nicholson St. Bonaventure 9.6
Jarrod Jones Ball State 9.525
Eli Holman Detroit 9.475
Pierre Jackson Baylor 9.4
Richard Howell N.C. State 9.4
Brandon Davies BYU 9.375
Drew Gordon New Mexico 9.35
Arnett Moultrie Mississippi St. 9.325
Julian Mavunga Miami OH 9.275
Tyler Zeller North Carolina 9.275
Keith Clanton Central Florida 9.25
Kevin Jones West Virginia 9.175
LaRon Dendy Middle Tenn. St. 9.175
Dion Waiters Syracuse 9.125
John Henson North Carolina 9.125
Will Barton Memphis 9.075
Chris Braswell Charlotte 9.05
Alec Brown Wisc. Green Bay 9.05
Cody Zeller Indiana 9.025
C.J. Leslie N.C. State 9.025
Wendell McKines New Mexico State 8.975
Jae Crowder Marquette 8.975
Gerald Robinson Georgia 8.95
Kyle Weems Missouri State 8.95
Khris Middleton Texas A&M 8.925
Cameron Moore UAB 8.9
Andre Roberson Colorado 8.9
Terrell Stoglin Maryland 8.875
Bj Young Arkansas 8.875
Jarnell Stokes Tennessee 8.875
Keith Wright Harvard 8.875
John Shurna Northwestern 8.85
J’Covan Brown Texas 8.75
Tony Wroten Washington 8.75
Kent Bazemore Old Dominion 8.725
Chris Gaston Fordham 8.725
Maalik Wayns Villanova 8.7
Jorge Gutierrez California 8.7
Mike Glover Iona 8.675
Meyers Leonard Illinois 8.6
Harrison Barnes North Carolina 8.575
Orlando Johnson UC Santa Barbara 8.575
Elias Harris Gonzaga 8.55
D.J. Cooper Ohio 8.5
Robbie Hummel Purdue 8.45
Jared Berggren Wisconsin 8.45
Lorenzo Brown N.C. State 8.45
Marcus Denmon Missouri 8.425
Quincy Miller Baylor 8.4
Jeffery Taylor Vanderbilt 8.375
Trey Zeigler Central Michigan 8.375
Robert Sacre Gonzaga 8.375
Moe Harkless St. John’s 8.375
Solomon Hill Arizona 8.375
Jason Clark Georgetown 8.35
Renardo Sidney Mississippi St. 8.325
Keala King Arizona State 8.325
Shabazz Napier Connecticut 8.325
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Kentucky 8.3
Kevin Foster Santa Clara 8.275
Deonte Burton Nevada 8.275
Gregory Echenique Creighton 8.225
Darius Johnson-Odom Marquette 8.2
Brandon Paul Illinois 8.2
Steven Idlet Tulsa 8.125
Quincy Acy Baylor 8.125
Mason Plumlee Duke 8.125
Dee Bost Mississippi St. 8.1
Ryan Kelly Duke 8.075
Alasdair Fraser Maine 8.075
Tyshawn Taylor Kansas 8.05
Scoop Jardine Syracuse 8
Terrence Ross Washington 7.975
Trey Burke Michigan 7.975
Brandon Triche Syracuse 7.975
Matthew Dellavedova Saint Mary’s 7.975
Jeremy Lamb Connecticut 7.95
Trent Lockett Arizona State 7.95
Travis Wear UCLA 7.925
Allen Crabbe California 7.925
Trae Golden Tennessee 7.9
Patric Young Florida 7.9
Mouphtaou Yarou Villanova 7.875
Branden Dawson Michigan State 7.875
Trevor Releford Alabama 7.825
Ray McCallum Detroit 7.825
Romero Osby Oklahoma 7.825
John Jenkins Vanderbilt 7.8
Drew Crawford Northwestern 7.8
Travis McKie Wake Forest 7.8
William Buford Ohio State 7.8
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope Georgia 7.775
Tu Holloway Xavier 7.725
Perry Jones III Baylor 7.725
Michael Dixon Missouri 7.7
Terrence Jones Kentucky 7.7
Eli Carter Rutgers 7.675
Carl Jones Saint Joseph’s 7.675
Kenny Kadji Miami FL 7.675
Zeke Marshall Akron 7.675
Milton Jennings Clemson 7.675
Erik Murphy Florida 7.65
Kenny Boynton Florida 7.625
Keith Appling Michigan State 7.625
Hollis Thompson Georgetown 7.6
Carlon Brown Colorado 7.575
Jared Cunningham Oregon State 7.575
Jamar Samuels Kansas State 7.575
Victor Oladipo Indiana 7.575
Jonathan Holmes Texas 7.575
Yancy Gates Cincinnati 7.575
Jordan Taylor Wisconsin 7.55
Olek Czyz Nevada 7.55
Christian Watford Indiana 7.55
Deniz Kilicli West Virginia 7.55
Kenny Frease Xavier 7.55
Chace Stanback UNLV 7.525
Erving Walker Florida 7.5
Nurideen Lindsey St. John’s 7.5
Augustus Gilchrist South Florida 7.475
Michael Morrison George Mason 7.475
Rodney Williams Minnesota 7.475
Sean Kilpatrick Cincinnati 7.45
Kris Joseph Syracuse 7.45
Bradley Beal Florida 7.425
Ryan Boatright Connecticut 7.425
C.J. Harris Wake Forest 7.4
Casper Ware Long Beach State 7.4
Deshaun Thomas Ohio State 7.375
Dewayne Dedmon USC 7.375
Ashton Gibbs Pittsburgh 7.3
Jordan McRae Tennessee 7.3
David Wear UCLA 7.275
Kim English Missouri 7.25
Devon Collier Oregon State 7.25
Le’Bryan Nash Oklahoma State 7.25
Tim Abromaitis Notre Dame 7.25
Patrick Heckmann Boston College 7.2
Tim Hardaway Jr Michigan 7.175
Melsahn Basabe Iowa 7.175
Devoe Joseph Oregon 7.15
Dezmine Wells Xavier 7.1
Michael Snaer Florida State 7.075
Joe Jackson Memphis 7.075
Seth Curry Duke 7.05
Gilvydas Biruta Rutgers 7.05
Damier Pitts Marshall 7.025
Kevin Pangos Gonzaga 6.975
Gerard Coleman Providence 6.95
Ian Miller Florida State 6.925
Bradford Burgess VCU 6.9
Jerian Grant Notre Dame 6.85
C.J. Wilcox Washington 6.825
Dion Dixon Cincinnati 6.825
David Loubeau Texas A&M 6.825
Lamont Jones Iona 6.675
Darius Miller Kentucky 6.65
Dominic Cheek Villanova 6.625
Chasson Randle Stanford 6.6
TyShwan Edmondson Austin Peay 6.6
Austin Rivers Duke 6.575
Durand Scott Miami FL 6.55
Chris Czerapowicz Davidson 6.475
Marcus Jordan Central Florida 6.45
Doron Lamb Kentucky 6.425
Tarik Black Memphis 6.4
Nick Johnson Arizona 6.375
Sheldon McClellan Texas 6.1
Malcolm Grant Miami FL 5.95
D.J. Richardson Illinois 5.85
Andre Dawkins Duke 5.325

Again, I haven’t weighted for age or position. This is just an approximation of just how much stuff guys do during a game, not efficiency.

When I throw in age, I weigh it in 4 groups. I start with a general score of 20. If a player stays in his age in his class, he doesn’t get docked (i.e. 18 for frosh, 19 for soph, etc). 18 year olds get 20 points, 19 year olds in their right class get 17.5 points, 20 year olds in their right class get 15, juniors in their right class get 12.5, seniors in their right class get 10. If players are old for their class, they get docked a corresponding amount (i.e. 2.5 per year).

I weigh the position in two parts: will the player maintain his role (based on usage and raw score) in the NBA and does he have a position. This is also weighted on a 20 point scale with 2.5 point differentials.

In other words, players get lots of extra points for being young and with a role that can be duplicated in the NBA. This is my Brandon Knight rule.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 24, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Whoops

18 year old freshman = 20
19 year old sophs = 17.5
20 year old juniors = 15
21 year old seniors = 12.5

Got mixed up with writing down the weighted order. A 23 year old junior would get docked an additional 7.5 points. A 17 year old freshman gets an additional 2.5 points. And so on and so forth.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 24, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Also, here’s how I add up the non weighted part:

=((((pts*games)(reb*games)(ast*games)(blocks*games)(steals*games))-(((fta*games)-(ftm*games))-(to*games)))/games)/4

When I add in the weight I do so here:

=((((pts*games)(reb*games)(ast*games)(blocks*games)(steals*games))-(((fta*games)-(ftm*games))-(to*games)))/games)(weighed age)(weighted position)/4

I make a number of assumptions about what correlates with a solid transfer of production. I assume that the best players get to the NBA as quickly as possible and that is why I really give a lot of stock to 18 year olds putting up good raw numbers. I assume that it is possible for an especially physically gifted player to beast on college kids on bad teams or in bad conferences so I give a lot of stock to position and role.

I also assume that there is an equal correlation to success with points, assists, rebounds, blocks, etc. I know that this isn’t the case for each statistic on its own but I’m looking for a measure of how much guys do s**t, not necessarily how each little bit correlates to success at the next level. This is one area where I think the wrong question is being asked with the data. I think the key is to look for overall activity on the court and then to weigh it against efficiency (the 2nd part of the Hoopus score), not to look at which individual stat best correlates with future success in the NBA.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 24, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

and for some reason the html won't let me add the addition sign

the second formula should read

=((((pts*games) plus (reb*games) plus (ast*games) plus (blocks*games) plus (steals*games))-(((fta*games)-(ftm*games))-(to*games)))/games)/ plus (weighted age) plus (weighted position)/4

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 24, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

nice to see the model.

It has certainly been successful. It sounds like you use the Hollinger method of tinkering from year to year and sticking with what works.

My goal is to basically build a distinct model for each statistic, that uses NCAA numbers to project NBA numbers 1, 2, 3 ….. years down the line. It should be pretty easy to find the parameters with a nice big data-set of NCAA and NBA performance. That is a start, but the fun should be in finding a better model each each individual element of the boxscore.

Ultimately, I want to take Player X’s NCAA numbers and punch out a 95% confidence interval box score for him. Best-case: 95% CI and worst-case: 5% CI…. I am assuming this would have a really wide range on scoring stats (unless I can build a better model of scoring which I hope to do) and then really small ranges on predictable stats like blocks and rebounds.

This system wouldn’t impose any objective #1, #2… but would give a safe guess at what each player can do at the next level, and how likely they are to reach that potential.

by vjl110 on Jan 24, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I tinker with it every year

My biggest assumption is that with the AAU culture, that when the first time a lot of the really good players are put into a system of some sort, the best way to gauge how well they will perform is to look for overall activity and efficiency. In this sense, I look at it more like an economy than a single transaction. Do some transactions have a higher correlation of success in the pros than others? Yes, but I think the big question is to find out which guys can drive the most overall activity and then to weigh how effectively they do it.

The efficiency score isn’t that much different except that I use per possession stats and weigh for position (i.e. bigs rebounds aren’t worth as much as guard ones). If I could have a NCAA wide average per position, I could make it work even better, but that’s just beyond whatever effort I’m willing to put into it. I’d also work out some models with historical data to get a better handle on exactly how individual stats correlate with NBA success.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 24, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

PS

The reason for me looking at it this way was playing a rec league game against some guys from MSU-Mankato. One guy was doing everything. It reminded me of playing with John Thomas in a summer camp league. When projecting players upwards, the best players are typically asked to do the most stuff. They should be “in the action” more than a player who can’t make the jump, hopefully without turning it over or missing a ton of shots.

Follow @canishoopus

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 24, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

...
I think the big question is to find out which guys can drive the most overall activity and then to weigh how effectively they do it.

I think I get the same sense. Honestly, I think one thing that activity is really showing you is BBIQ. Guys who understand what is going on always seem to find themselves in a position to do something. I don’t think it is just a bball thing either.

Especially in construction/landscaping… type jobs, the better workers just seem to always be doing something, while the crappy ones aren’t. It is more than laziness too… some people just don’t see the big picture of trying to make something happen, and as a result just sort of stand around until the game/work comes to them, others can always find a way to impact what is going on.

by vjl110 on Jan 24, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Fan mail

I can start flooding his dorm room with “Fan” mail from Minnesotans telling him he should come here. Just start going through the phone book and putting random return addresses on them.

PS This isnt mail fraud is it?

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes...

but I would be worried I was harassing the wrong Kentavious Caldwell-Pope living in Athens, GA.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point

Ill cover my bases and mail copies to all of them. With luck we might end up with multiple KCPs in the draft and other teams getting confused and picking the wrong ones

by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 23, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Haha

Liie when Isaiah drafted Renaldo Balkman because he got him confused with Rolando Blackman

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 5:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Why do we like KCP?

I know nothing about him, but his stats aren’t anything amazing. Is it just that he is solid and will hopefully be available in the teens?

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 12:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Look at his...

per-40 pace adjusted numbers. They are exceptional. Try comparing him to the other freshmen 2s in the DX stats utility. He is better than all of them. Rebounds, steals, points, TOs, with a pretty high usage. His TS% isn’t exciting, but as you have probably seen me argue, I don’t place much stock in that when projecting between leagues.

Like all SGs, he could be a bust, but I would love to take a chance on him.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Good deal

Thanks vj.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 1:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Huge athlete too

the upside is unreal.

If you look at his production plus his athletic base he basically could be described as an “unlimited upside” kind of guy.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

They will be available though

There is a pretty good chance KCP, Doron Lamb, Toney Wroten, and Austin Rivers are all available after pick 15

look at all the bigs coming out

Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond, Michael Gilchrist, Harrison Barnes (I’m adding all forwards), Perry Jones, John Henson, Jared Sullinger, Terence Jones, Thomas Robinson

That could very likely be the first 9 selections in the draft.

So the SG’s might not even start coming off the board till 10 and remember this is an ultra-thin draft for PG’s meaning that if Luke Ridnour may be building up some sky high value for this summer

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting assessment...

….considering Barnes is having just as good as, if not a better sophomore year than Pierce did at Kansas

by Oceanary on Jan 23, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

except for the whole

rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals thing.

by Dumbhead62 on Jan 23, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Can you honestly tell me

That you think Barnes will come near having 5 (!!) 25+ ppg seasons? I bet he doesn’t top 20 thwt many times. Barnes just doesn’t have thst alpha mindset. Pp was underrated for a very long time, but he was one of he most lethal scorers in te league for a long time.

Now the Deng comp I can get behind.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 11:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

He does seem...

kind of Dengy doesn’t he?

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

If he could defend like Deng

He’d be the 2nd pick, easily. The similarly versatile offense seems to be there though.

Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.

by nja700 on Jan 23, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

A good point

Although I’d also say it was really hard to see Paul Pierce doing that himself coming out of Kansas

by Oceanary on Jan 23, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe

But we know what PP became, and that was a very dangerous A1 type of scorer. All we can do with Barnes is evaluate his current skillset, and to me it screame Deng. Good player, but every time I watch him I forget he is there for long stretches. I hope he goes high and pushes a guy I like better down towards us.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 11:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I've only seen Barnes a couple times

but I was not impressed at all. He looks the part, obviously, but seemed to contribute little else besides some nice jumers. His athleticism wasn’t apparent; he didn’t look explosive at all. He did seem confident, as well as calm and willing in crunch time, but what has he really shown as far as production? How about Deng crossed with Marvin Williams for a comp?

That said, if need wasn’t an issue, I would absolutely take MKG ahead of him and I’d feel great about it. When I see someone who plays as hard as he does, as intelligently, and contributes all over the place with rebounds, deflections, etc, I get excited. You already know he’s got the heart and the work ethic. Peak Josh Howard seems like a very good comp.

by Tugboat on Jan 23, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree 100%

MKG will be able to guard the 2-4 in the NBA and just knows how to play. I love versatile defenders like him.

I have alwo thrown out Williams as a similar olayer to Deng. Somewhere between those 2 seems realistic. He just doesn’t impose his will on games. I would take him as he is obviously better han Wes but I woukd also be pissed if my team spent a top 5 pick on him in a draft like this.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 12:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

You'll never be Tugboat

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

You are going to repeatedly mention Lamb all season?

Cool, because I am going to throw in every couple days we passed on Marshon Brooks twice. He looks good so far. That one is stuck in my craw.

by Darth Tugits on Jan 23, 2012 10:37 AM CST reply actions  

He's a chucker though

I would bet 100 dollars that any SG but Terence Ross that is a first round pick next year will be much better overall ballers than Brooks.

Brooks can score, yes. But he WILL shoot the ball

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

he isn't a chucker...

in the derogatory sense though.

I figured he would be coming out of college, but at least so far, he is making them. He is a scorer.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

He has been surprisingly efficient. Yet another obviously blown pick. At least Kahn can’t both it too hard (can he?) If we get the Utah pick as it is likely such a deep draft.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 11:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

*botch

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 11:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

This looks like a really really...

good draft.

Honestly, I have been making a conscious effort not to study the players too much, because in what little I have done, they look way better than what was available last season. There are three SGs (KCP, Beal, and Wrotten) I would have considered at the 2nd pick last season, who may be available at the pick we are giving to the Hornets.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Interesting thst you like Wroten so much

I am pretty ignorant of his game but isnt he one of those “kinda out of control 1-2 combo” guys? Whwt do you like about him?

I will have to pay more attention to him going forward.

I also think Henson would be a great fit here. He is a twig but somehow he still kills the glass and you know he will bother shots. I have to agree with Oceanary on him as I was thinking the Camby thing too.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 12:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Good 2-guard size...

and fills out a stat sheet. He rebounds, distributes, and steals quite well. He also gets to the line a ton for a guard. I have a hunch that is a good sign that his style will translate, or maybe even be more effective, in the NBA. His TOs might be a big red-flag, but they are also notorious for decreasing over time.

He is definitely my least favorite of the three mentioned, but he could be really good.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I remember being very impressed by his athleticism when I watched UW

TOs are actually the last thing I am concerned with, so no big deal there. Just checked his stats and youre right, there are some big indicators of success there.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 12:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Wroten is my favorite

naturally because I believe he has the most upside (Maybe not if KCP is in the picture) :-p

Also he more than likely will be available around pick 15-20 which is both where the Jazz pick will be picking (if we do indeed get that pick) and also where trading into the draft will be very easy (as that is the sweet spot for teams with high salaries looking to ditch picks with guaranteed picks ones or trading for a guy that could immediately help like Ridnour

The nice thing about this draft is while it is loaded with good wing prospects….the top is also chalk full of bigs. And we all know that bigs tend to get drafted higher than wings so these 2’s we like will surely be available in the teens.

Even though we only theoretically can get a pick….it’s a draft we surely should look to trade into

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, exactly

It is imperative to get a pick in this draft somehow. It is like the 09 draft except for SGs.

Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."

by Xand1 on Jan 23, 2012 5:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I made the exact same comparison.

and like you… I really like Burks coming out.

by vjl110 on Jan 23, 2012 9:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I really liked Burks

but I think I like Wroten more. Seems like a better all-around athlete, but I’ll give you that their games seem fairly similar (both would be a help)

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

On the flight back from New Orleans at the moment

After being at a bar on Bourban street Friday night while watching the Wolves/Clippers romp, let’s just say I was surprised how many Hornets fans there actually are in New Orleans. And those fans REALLY, REALLY want that Wolves 1st rounder.

My cheering almost got me killed.

by Coolhwhip on Jan 23, 2012 11:46 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

They can have it

cause it’s gonna be in the teens

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

What would it take to get Hibbert?

Roy Hibbert wants to stay in Indiana, but is unlikely to agree to an extension by Wednesday’s deadline to re-sign 2008 draft picks, his agent, David Falk, said Monday. CBSSports.com

Also this summer’s RFA lot could be unreal with McGee, Asik, Lopez and Hibbert

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:03 PM CST reply actions  

Asik-Chicago already is paying Noah
McGee-kind of an air head, plus Wash may very well be drafting Andre Drummond
Hibbert-Granger and West already making big money, no garauntee they match a big offer
Lopez-Nets hoping for Howard

I get it.

But these are all guys that if you present them with an offer there is probably at worst a 50 percent chance you get them because of the teams they are on on

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 23, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

My gut says Kahn is trading that Jazz pick

Greetings all. First time poster, long time lurker.

Somehow or another I think Kahn trades the Utah #1, more probably leading up to the draft next year to faciliatate and acquire the “one” player he feels put this team into contention talk.

I’m all onboard the Manther train. Love that guy’s game. Wolves so need a Serge/Camby(younger)-type to flank Love. I’m uncertain with the call though being the need for a wing scorer. Fankly, give me a Wes Mathews/Afflalo/Batum-type that can put in 15-17pp, play agressive D, and be sound in AST/TO ratio and I’d be more pleased. Then again, I still drool at the thought of getting K-Mart on the Woofies.

I find it troubling (down-the-road) that the only real way to get D-Will and Love signifigant minutes together is for Love to play the 5. that works fine against specific teams but it is not a recipe for long-term success. Then again, D-Will proves he can guard 3s than we may be okay. Still, in my ideal scenario, the 2 and 3 are interchangeable defensively and D-Will will never be that guy.

Love CH! Go Wolves!

I too am a lone wolfpack.

by OR-7 on Jan 23, 2012 4:40 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

Depressingly Good Prediction

Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV

by HumdingerTV on Jan 23, 2012 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

To clarify...

About Kahn trading the pick.
THAT’S SO KAHN!

“I didn’t feel this draft, at our position, had the type of player that could come in and help our already loaded roster.”

Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV

by HumdingerTV on Jan 23, 2012 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Canis Hoopus is straight T-Wolves straight from Minnesota.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Rubio_wolfrider_small
2011/2012 Rookie Review
Abby_s_030_small
Top Ten Reasons David Kahn is a Better Basketball Mind than Sam Presti
Rubio_wolfrider_small
Ricky Rubio: Probably not as good as you think...
Small
Around the League: Atlanta Hawks

Recent FanPosts

Rubio_wolfrider_small
PA100 Southwest Division
Rubio_wolfrider_small
PA100 Atlantic Division
Small
End of Dan Harmon - Community
New_look_primary_logo_1989-96_100_small
Jae Crowder participated in NJ combine...
Small
Possible that Perry Jones = Paul George?
Small
Evan Fournier
557415_10101880206283470_13960869_76835255_1401292386_n_small
Poll: Do the NBA playoffs live up to their potential?
Rubio_wolfrider_small
PA100 Northwest Division

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Canis Hoopus Twitter

    follow me on Twitter

    Hoopus Features

    HOOPUS FAQ

    Salary Cap Info

    Draft Info

    Player Movement Flow Charts

    Draft Boards

    Former Tag Lines:

    • In desperate need of an epic dose of basketball Viagra
    • Your source of radical left wing politics cleverly disguised as basketball fandom
    • Palin-Free since before statehood
    • Despairy Home Companion
    • The world's leading exporter of small area quickness
    • Sorry…I have no idea who is Joe Mauer
    • Home of the Peja deep douche
    • Vote McGrady!
    • Bork, bork, bork, bork, bork
    • Wir Sind Darko
    • Weird, unhealthy Darko mania
    • les goûts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas
    • Basketball success makes character issues forgivable
    • Building the Boogie Bandwagon
    • Building the Dream....One Power Forward At A Time
    • Kids, Puppy Dogs, And Long Walks In The Park
    • SWITCH THE FLIP!!!
    • Team Red Pill.
    • December is Bunny Month. Survive it with insincerity and Merle Haggard.
    • Like having a really good seat at a beheading.
    • We've got to have rules and obey them. After all, we're not savages. We're Wolves fans, and Wolves fans are best at everything.
    • Getting Real Mythological
    • Trapped in Punxsawawney
    • BIIYYYOOOMMMBOOOOOOO!!!
    • Estoy llevando mi talento a Minnesota
    • Where sharks do battle with giant eagles
    • You don’t put a saddle and reins on a magical unicorn, you bareback it and put faith in nature
    • Toeing the line between nerd and loser
    • If Theo Ratliff’s Expiring Contract could see us now...

    Hoopus Recipe Book

    Let's Settle This:


    Self-Promotion

    BallHype Sports Blog Rankings


    Managers

    Dr wyn

    Journey_small Stop-n-Pop

    Rviy7fbgmhz5ht2dpgo6q0jfu_small TimAllen

    Editors

    Wolveslogo_small Oceanary

    Authors

    Small SG

    Hrbek_small Jon Marthaler