Kevin Love agrees to contract extension. For real this time
(New fanshot so the other one doesn't overload with comments)
The Minnesota Timberwolves and star forward Kevin Love have at last reached terms on a contract extension, according to sources close the situation, beating Wednesday's midnight deadline.
To do so, Minnesota had to grant Love a player option in the final year of a four-year deal worth in excess of $60 million, sources said.
The deal will be signed Wednesday afternoon, after the Wolves complete their morning shootaround in Dallas, a source said.
From ESPN
4 months ago
Oceanary
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Finally
Not thrilled with the 3 year out but thats a lot better than nothing
What, my fanshot wasn't good enough?
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
They never are
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 25, 2012 11:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I must have been in the middle of copying text when you posted it
Wasn’t there when I started. Sorry
Sure, it was good enough. It just didn't look the part.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Thank you
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 25, 2012 11:49 AM CST via mobile reply actions
The 3 year opt out is a horrible move by the T-Wolves
At this point do we hold Kahn responsible or do we start to question whether the problem lies above the GM level.
I would go with "both" as well...
I doubt we ever know.
As someone said in the other thread, this does but some pressure on the team to produce ASAP. But, it is real tough to put any shine on jerking around your super-star.
We don't know who jerked whom around.
Do any of us really have a handle on what different extensions look like after four, or five, years, in this new CBA?
The contract out looks like Love’s agent putting him in a spot to choose his window, not anything Machiavellian by the team.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
This is nowhere near the more stressful contract negotiations I've sat through as a fan.
Sausage gets made. The “designated player” thing basically screams “unintended consequences” to me, and maybe the Wolves were eager to be the canary in that coal mine so they took a harder line than they should. Otherwise this was pretty routine.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I don't believe he wanted 5.
He is good at saying the right things.
Rubios - "Clinically PROVEN to Help Reduce Suckiness"
I think he wanted 5, but if the team plans on signing rubio to the max when his rookie contracts done
then they needed to give him less then 5
agreed
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 25, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Not trying to be glib, but,
yeah, googs is right…and also, haven’t we been doing this all along?
Worrying about problems above the GM level = a completely fruitless waste of time. (Although I was hoping Papa Glen was newly-envigorated as an owner [and re-committed to winning] by the Lynx’ wonderful season and title).
Well, if the problem is Kahn then I can hope for a new GM
If the problem is Taylor then I have to think about whether I want to invest my fan time and money in a franchise that’s run like this.
I guess I was assuming the latter wasn't a realistic option for you...
I am sorry if I was projecting ;)
Also reported...
according to Zgoda’s source, David Kahn handed Kevin Love a contract in the training room after the Houston game (39 points) and Kevin was seen walking away with the contract crinkled up in his hand.
At minimum, this is extremely ham-handed on the part of David Kahn. The timing couldn’t have sucked more.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
I doubt that an NBA contract
Could be crinkled up in his hand.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Jan 25, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Per Jerry Zgoda
“I have heard from people I trust that David Kahn presented Love with a contract offer in the training room — not sure if it was the only formal offer ever made or the latest — after Monday’s loss to Houston and that Love was seen leaving Target Center with it crumpled in his hand and visibly angry.”
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
They did lose the game
And I’m pretty sure his agent was also given a copy
Love's deal
is on par with the same deal that Wade, Lebron, Melo, and Paul signed after their rookie contracts expired. It’s not the same deal that Durant and Rose signed as they committed to their clubs for 5 years at the max.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jan 25, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Love WANTED to commit to 5 years at the max
Wade, Lebron, Melo didn’t. I betcha Cleveland would’ve been ok with signing Lebron for 5 with no opt out.
Sorry, but Love is not on par with Wade and Lebron yet. They're freaks, game changers, closers, superstars, the elite, the designated ones
Love is still a 2nd tier Max contract superstar. In 3 years time, we’ll know if he’s the top 1%. If he’s, then by that time, we’ll negotiate both his and Rubio’s contract together and he can get the coveted designated status. Or better yet, Kahn will work his magic and convince Beasley that he’s the one and sign the max (joke).
by bluedevil_unicorno on Jan 25, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Durrr
They should have locked him up. Now we’ll have to juggle contracts for two (maybe three…) stars in the same year. Not to mention that if you offer Rubio max money when his time comes that ends up being a pretty bold slap in Love’s face, making us unlikely to retain him. Seriously, management, you lock this guy up.
by Spanish_Inquisition on Jan 25, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yup
Now Ricky and Love come due the same year. Sure, we can RFA Ricky, but then Love can take his option and have a joint “decision” after the season.
Worst case scenario, obviously,
but still.
The bad thing about this
Is in 3 years he’ll probably be able to force a trade at the deadline or we risk him walking for nothing.
Unless we're good.
So yeah, what you said.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
That's the point
It puts the pressure on the front office to be good at their jobs. This is the same kind of deal we saw from LeBron, Wade and Bosh that allowed them to for the super team in Miami, so everyone knows that option out is serious business now
Don't think we can plan on
Not being good. Have to think big and get the other guys. That was the problem in Cleveland, etc.
Hmm, really glad to see him re-sign
But I would much rather him locked in for 5 years vs. 3
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
Well
Not ideal. No real idea what happened here, but not happy they failed to get him signed for 5 years.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 25, 2012 11:53 AM CST reply actions
I honestly can't believe they didn't offer him five years.
I mean, I can and do believe it…..I just can’t believe it.
Because in four years we’re going to need to sign Ricky for five years? Like…what sense does that make?
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
then you should take the course of the Wolves management
and embrace ignorance; it’s quite freeing, they tell
We should be happy we just locked up one of the best young up and coming power forwards in the league. Yes, it’s only three years but that’s a long ways down the road. Lets just celebrate for once a Minnesota win. Now we just need some good news on the Vikings.
This is more like a 1-point win at the buzzer
of the third overtime, at home against the Wizards, and losing Love for a week to injury. Sure it’s better than losing, but why did it have to be so hard?
by Madison Dan on Jan 25, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
More like a 14 point loss at home
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 12:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, the Joe Mauer lesson is sometimes longer isn’t better on contracts. It’s tough to predict how the next 3 years will play out (I guess)…
But I will say if the whispers that the team balked at 5 and so instead Love demanded an ETO, well, way to cement your status a team players aren’t thrilled to play for, Wolves!
We should have been BEGGING him to sign for five.
by LoveTo on Jan 25, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would like to know where the proof is that we weren't?
If it’s out there I never saw it.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Jan 25, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
When Wolves wouldn’t do five-year deal, Love’s camp said they’d only do four-year deal WITH opt out after Year 3 to make him 2015 free agent
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
So neither wanted a 5 year?
….man I would have a hard time walking away from a guaranteed 5th year if I could have it
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Jan 25, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
Love quotes in the Star Tribune article.
“I was willing to make a commitment for five years. They thought otherwise.”
by LoveTo on Jan 25, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Team is on the clock now
They have 3.5 years to prove to Love (and soon after, Rubio) that they are headed in the right direction.
Unfortunately, Adelman may not coach much beyond that due to age. So the Wolves may need to identify a successor that can keep the team moving forward.
Fortunately, I could a free agent seriously consider joining a core of Love/Adelman/Rubio if the team finishes strong this year. Two possible All-Star level guys in search of a third guy for a Big Three, and neither guy is a ball hog who needs Kobe-like touches.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
Ideal would be a trade or sign & trade mid-season to get the 3rd guy now
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 25, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Could be. Not exactly impressed with his work in MIL/PHO
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 25, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Nor in his one game this year
@ Milwaukee the rotations were atrocious.
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Jan 25, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
I think they bring Elston Turner in this off-season
Pretty sure he’s on a 1 year deal in Phoenix.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
Perhaps Sikma or T.R, Dunn??
Never been impressed by Porter the coach (loved him as a player).
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
"It's 2.5 years, not 3.5."
Contract extension. You still have to count the rest of this year. That’s a half, plus the 3 new ones before the opt out.
So, in your mind...
Did this just become as good as the four-year deal you thought Love had agreed to yesterday? ;)
by stuntmonkeys on Jan 25, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
If he opts out, he's gone in 3.5 years...
…we would have to trade him long before then if we wanted anything good in return.
Why does everyone want to trade Williams? I know we have holes in other places but it’s not like he’s been playing horribly this year. If anything trade Beasley.
Williams has more value
Beasley is a headcase and everyone knows it
Because Beasley wouldn't net us anything.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
True, but Williams looks like he could be a good player in the league. I’d rather keep him on the team even if we don’t have a true spot for him.
We don't have that luxury
with gaping holes at 2, 3, and (to a lesser extent) 5.
by PDGirl on Jan 25, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Not impressed by Williams.
I’d “sell high” on him.
Like when we traded Donyell for Googs.
Not sure if that is the best comparison
Googs looked good, but they both played in the NBA till age 35 and Donyell looks to be as good or better than Tom…
You'll get a lot more for Williams than Beasley
And Beasley can come off the books free of charge a lot sooner
Let's start doing trade scenarios with D-Will that work for both sides...
I’ve seen posted where we could hope to get a late first rounder in the next year’s draft. To that, I say: ha! Next offer, please.
by stuntmonkeys on Jan 25, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Batum!
This requires Kahn to be a little bit of a salesman and convince Portland that Williams can play the 4 a little bit. Long story short Batum wants more minutes but Portland has Wallace. camby and Thomas are old and give the team about 38mpg leaving 10 at the 5 for LMA. LMA plays 36mpg meaning that between the time he sits and when he plays the 5 there are 22 minutes available for Williams. If he can also play some 3, you have a backup giving you 30 solid minutes per game.
The basic deal is Williams for Batum, a slightly improved deal would be
Portland Gets – Williams, :Ridnour & optionally Johnson
Memphis Gets – N. Smith, Ellington & Portland 1st rounder
MN Gets – Batum & Mayo
Reasoning:
Portland has a discontent Batum, get his replacement as detailed above and the backup PG they need in Ridnour. They can take a flyer on Johnson if they don’t believe Williams can play the 3 though I doubt they want that, I would make this Webster if they want him back in order to get the deal done. They can also have a 2nd rounder from us to sweeten the pot but not the Utah pick.
Memphis has been rumored to be moving Mayo for 2 years now though they are certainly playing him a ton. There is no doubt that Allen is their starter of choice, they get N. Smith as a young guy with upside (if they want him, maybe just as a body to clear a roster spot). They get Ellington as a 3pt specialist which is something that Mayo currently provides. They also get the Portland pick.
Idea 2
Upon further consideration it’s much easier to do two separate deals
Williams for Batum
Utah 1st + Ellington for Mayo …
could be Utah 1st + Johnson (expiring) if we don’t include him the Batum deal. The reasonings stay similar and Memphis doesn’t take on Nolan Smith who honestly doesn’t appear to belong in the league.
That leaves Ridnour on our team as our main trading chip to land a center like Okafor.
Idea 3
Williams + Ridnour + Webster + optionally Darko for Batum + Thomas+ Elliot/Smith + Portland 1st.
LMA has shown he can play the 5 so that frees up Webster to back up Wallace and Williams to get more minutes at the 4 while giving them the replacement for Nolan Smith as their backup PG. We get Batum, a backup C who gives us 10-15 quality minutes per game and Elliot or Smith as an extra guard to play while Barea is out and a low 1st round pick. Portland can take Darko if they feel they need an extra body in the middle to replace Thomas. Between Pek, Miller, Thomas and some Love we can hold down the 5 spot until next season.
Every time I look at that we are trading 3 players with WS48 > .1 for 2 such players (one old enough to not give us many minutes) + a bad guard + a non lottery pick but I think it may be needed to keep the discussions going so this is something of a last resort. We would then give the Utah 1st + Ellington to Memphis for Mayo.
dislaimer: at no point did I consider salaries… Batum, Okafor and Mayo are what I consider the top trade targets because there are legitimate reasons for their teams to move them.
Mayo is potentially a cancer (fight on plane) and Memphis has been rumored to be trying to trade him for 2 years, unfortunately with the addition of Speights there isn’t much we can offer them except a backup 2 guard and a draft pick. He is however a decent defender, a great 3pt shooter and drives quite well. I would love to have him on our team.
Batum: wants more minutes and Portland has committed to paying Wallace. I think he’s the best of these three players and the one we should target first. Portland’s main needs are a backup 5 (we can’t help them unless they want Darko/Pek) and a backup PG and Ridnour is perfectly suited to be the backup PG on a contender.
Okafor has something of a toxic contract and with Kaman on their team they really don’t need him. I’m not sure He’s what I would want for Williams but it’s worth considering especially as the basis of a deal which gets our pick back.
Beasley returns nothing
It’s that simple. We have few assests that will bring anything back. Why does this have to get repeated over and over. If you can get a solid starting SG for Darko, have at it.
by dropstep on Jan 25, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It is odd how many times this has to be said.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of people can't get past college experience and draft position
They think of Beasley as the number 2 overall pick and a guy would was great in college but all he is now is an expiring contract.
... but all he is now is an expiring contract...
…who can score 30 ppg
Scoring 30 pts in a game
is not the same as scoring 30 ppg.
I think this is ideal. I know many would disagree, but I think Love will have a hard time increasing his value.
by Darth Paxton on Jan 25, 2012 11:58 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
People have said that...
every year since he was drafted, and have been wrong every time.
by vjl110 on Jan 25, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I understand that, but what else can he do to take his game to another level?
by Darth Paxton on Jan 25, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
That's somewhat beside the point
The point is he’s a max player; his “value” doesn’t have to go up to make him that. The negative is that the Wolves failed to lock him up for as long as they could for reasons completely unclear.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 25, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I think the next thing to take a step...
will be either his passing (Adelman really stressed this) or his post game.
anyway…. EiM’s point is the more relevant one anyway. He doesn’t need to raise his value, he just needs to retain it (or only slightly decrease it) to continue to be a max player for the next 5 years.
If his value decreases, even slightly, is he still a "max player?"
by Darth Paxton on Jan 25, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Development of a couple reliable post moves
and maybe a bit more touch from 3-9 feet would make him even more of a machine than he already is.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Yup, the low post and mid-range jumpers is definitely where he has the most work
Zach Randolph and Paul Millsap have both developed deadly turnarounds that they can get off against taller opponents. Love has a decent jump hook over his left shoulder, but he needs to have a counter move when they overplay him on that shoulder. The guy really has all the tools to have a much better touch from the mid-range, whether it’s off turnarounds or face-up jumpers. But he’s just not that accurate yet.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 25, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
He's really good
Also a rare breed in that he is very efficient without drawing a lot of fouls or being a 3-point shooter. He’s sort of the anti-Love in that regard.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 25, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
I personally think he should stop taking so many of those shots.
He just doesn’t have that touch yet, plus he’s forcing a lot of them.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Meh
Most high scoring players force shots from time to time. With Beasley out of the lineup, he’s absorbing a lot of the shots (including the forced ones) that Beaz took. Who’d you rather have force up shots?
If he can develop some better post moves he’s going to start being double-teamed and that will open things up for other guys.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 25, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He does get a lot of FTAs that way
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
(insert Love complains too much witticism here)
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Defense.
Or, at least, get the league to understand he’s not that bad on defense already.
PS: I left ESPN on the other day and was gonna change the channel, just as Colin Cowherd was talking about the Ridnour/Rubio/Love fast break dunk against the Rockets. Cowherd goes “Ridnour and Rubio, great. Now you got two guys who can’t guard anyone.”
Ridnour, fine, alright, don’t really care obviously, but uh….Rubio? Ok.
Just letting you all know that, don’t worry, there’s still no reason to take Colin Cowherd seriously.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
It really is weird...
Rubio could be in the conversation for best defensive PG in the league, and he is talked about as a liability.
It's a good way to know if somebody is talking out of their ass though.
“Oh, you think Rubio’s too thin to play defense, huh? Cool.”
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
It would be fun to see someone do an ass with lips
…that are spouting inanities about Rubio’s defensive abilities
He is a white Euro.
Ergo, he cannot possibly be a good defender.
Lazy bastards who do not even do their research, much less watch a Wolves game.
He's just driving down Rubio's perceived value
so the Wolves can act like clowns in contract negotiations with him, too!
Cowherd has been a moron for a long time now.
I don’t think that will change anytime soon. Pick a stupid meme and he’s likely spouting it.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
by JMGrady on Jan 25, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Radio version of Skip Bayless
The mothership pays for total nonsense.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jan 25, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
He is tied with Jim Rome for Most Irritating Blowhard on Radio
Cowherd tries to talk about all the sports, and his tone is always that HE KNOWS THINGS YOU PEONS DON’T.
But all he really seems to know or care about is big college football teams, college football bowl games, and New York NFL teams.
I would take most CH members’ take on NBA matters over Cowpie’s.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 25, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
,,,,I actually like Rome....
His callers, not so much. But I think Rome’s alright.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Any white guy who uses "My man" unironically is not alright in my book.
That goes for Rick Kamla, too.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Rick Kamala Must Be Seen
as an Andy Kaufman-style comedian who isn’t in on his own jokes. Then he’s brilliant.
by Los Lobos Del Bosque on Jan 25, 2012 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
He can be a hack
His TV presence reeks of a guy who knows an average amount about the sport but is more interested in doing a stentorian spurious Stu Scott schtick. (Once I saw my three-word alliteration, I had to go for a couple more. Forgive me.)
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Rome's voice makes me stabby.
And he’s an asshole, too.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Jan 25, 2012 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
I knew you'd get another dig in on Rome.
shakinmyhead :)
by fanslaststand on Jan 25, 2012 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
My response
to the thought of Rome is entirely Pavlovian. I hear the name and start growling.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Jan 25, 2012 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
Post moves and defense
His defense is better this year, his up and under is working decently. If he can add one more move he won’t be Al by any stretch of the imagination but he could be quite effective down low (ignoring how many offensive rebounds he already gets).
Via Love on Twitter
To #twolves fans: I’ll be in Minnesota for 4 more years! Excited to see you when I get back to Minneapolis.
Classy Guy!
Ha, 4 more years he says. Classic.
“I’ll be in Minnesota for 3 more years and maybe another year if I F@%@ING FEEL LIKE IT!”
ftfy, Kevin.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
It's basically a guaranteed four from present day.
The remaining nine months until the start of the next season plus the three guaranteed years. Then he opts out , maybe.
by Spanish_Inquisition on Jan 25, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Disappointing
I understand the want to give Rubio 5 yrs, but you can’t think that far ahead. Pay the best PF in the game and lock him up for 5 yrs.
My question is did Kahn do the negotiating or someone else?
"Some people just want to watch the world burn"
Well, DWill, I've enjoyed your dunks
I hope you blossom on your new team.
PS: Wolves & Kahn. This is your last bullet. This is it. You’ve got one shot. Make it count.
Better yet – RJ – this is your first & last bullet…
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
With the Wolves
That means it’s Sonatine time.
Need another scorer right now
Go and get it done Kahn
by RaysOfHope on Jan 25, 2012 12:05 PM CST via mobile reply actions
This is a big mistake
I can swallow 4 years, but given the option between 3 and 5, you have to pick 5. Especially since you know he’s willing to leave whenever.
Love will stay if we can do a Chris Paul type of deal to get a star here
by RaysOfHope on Jan 25, 2012 12:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I have complete and utter confidence that this will happen
(%)
by PDGirl on Jan 25, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Significant fine tuning!
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 25, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Show of Hands!! Who else thinks a window has just opened??
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
When God opens another window
it’s just one more opportunity for a defenestration.
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Starting with Kahn???
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
Happier news:
Hollinger projects a 31-35 record this season, with a 19% chance of making the playoffs!
Glad they got something done before the deadline.
But I would feel a lot better about 5 than 4 with an opt-out after three.
This is smart on both sides
I like this result for both Love and the Timberwolves. There is now definite pressure on Kahn and Taylor to build a winner over the next 3 years or KLove will walk. I don’t believe they should have given him 5 years. It could be a Garnett situation all over again, where the front office can continually make poor decisions and get away with it because they’ve locked up their star for many years…As a fan, maybe it is disappointing that Love isn’t locked up for 5 years, but the positive is that this puts pressure on Kahn and Taylor to develop a winner now.
by DR_JPK on Jan 25, 2012 12:16 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Why would we have faith in either Kahn or Taylor being capable of building a contender?
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Lynx are the only feather in GT's cap.
Kahn doesn’t like caps. They mess up that slickster hairdo of his.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
I didn't say I have faith in that
but this clearly puts pressure squarely on Kahn and Taylor to build a championship team quickly, and that is a very good thing.
It's not Kahn and Taylor necessarily
The Adelman Clan is in on it, too.
www.unleashkevinlove.com
by erikanthony on Jan 25, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
why would we be fans if we thought the situation is hopeless?
We got perhaps the hardest part done—two stars (counting aroobio), and a top tier coach..a couple solid moves would go a long ways. That doesn’t seem out of the question
Because of the way the CBA is structured paying Love the "max" is a bargain every year you get to pay it.
To pass on adding two additional years at the max is to pass on free money.
Also, the “max” right now is lower than the max in 3 or 4 years. So again, this is a completely boneheaded move, unless you think that Love has a good chance of greatly declining as a player. I don’t know what in his history would make you think that.
by Django Z on Jan 25, 2012 12:17 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yep
Passing on free money. Idiots. Being dumb enough not to offer five years is exactly why Love wants the fourth year option. Stupid ownership.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 25, 2012 12:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ridiculious.
I’m with you two. Every additional year was money in the team’s pocket. I dunno wtf they could be thinking to pare down the offer.
Very confused. But 3 is better than none. I don’t know why they would try to save the 5 year contract for rubio, a player with injury history and a gritty playstyle.
So my response is …. Awesome.. and damnit. I think that this sets precident for future negotiations. And I don’t think it is a good precident.
Adelman's contract is for 4 years
Which is probably why he want’s the option to opt-out.
This makes the most sense to me...
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
Yep...
if we are not good in 3 years guess who has the option to leave: Rubio, Love and RA
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Jan 25, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Won't that be justified?
I’m not saying to give Kahn a chance. He’s had a ton of them. But give him a chance to build a roster with a real coach.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jan 25, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
he had a chance,
and he picked Rambis to be his ‘real’ coach, and Jonny and Wes and Ryan Hollins to be on his roster, and tried to trade Kevin Love off his roster.
Please God, no more.
Let’s all appreciate David Kahn’s 10 minutes of competency (the time between Rubio and Jonny Flynn) and move on.
Way I see it, the clock is ticking.
We need to be in the playoffs this year, and going past the first round next year.
He comes across as exceptionally competitive (as you’d expect of a pro athlete). The Wolves have to convince him they can win a Championship, and they have 3 years to do it.
Live And Stupid From England
so it was a 3 vs 4 Negotiation?
As opposed to the 4 vs 5 that’s been so categorically assumed?
Or is it assumed that Kevin says you won’t give me 5 so give me a 3 year out?
I just don’t see the logic here….doesn’t this make Kevin the ‘bad guy’ for all the people who are complaining we didn’t sign him to 5? is everyone a bad guy?
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 12:23 PM CST reply actions
The current story is
that Love wanted 5, the Wolves wouldn’t do it, so he insisted on an opt-out for the last year of the 4-year contract being offered. Who knows whether it’s all true, though.
by Madison Dan on Jan 25, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
My apologies for metaphorically lynching you last night, MD
It was a sensitive moment for me, and as original poster, I had to take out my imaginary wrath on someone.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Lynch the messenger.
Isn’t that how it always goes?
by Madison Dan on Jan 25, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
These are trying times, alas.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Sounds like a reasonable scenario
and as I said above, since Love has the opt out after 3 years, the time is now for the wolves to build a winner
this
They wouldn’t give him 5 so the ETO w Bird rights on 4 was the next thing he’d take.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 25, 2012 12:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
short of the grandaddy designation
Bird rights get him 5 years and 7.5 percent increase on the next deal…with wolves or not.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 25, 2012 12:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Does he need to play out all four years to get the Bird rights (I never can remember some of these details)?
by stuntmonkeys on Jan 25, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
Who can the Timberwolves go and get to help out Love and Rubio?
by RaysOfHope on Jan 25, 2012 12:26 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I still think they hold out hope for Derrick Williams
Batum is a guy we should keep an eye on, although I found this comparison interesting:
They aren’t that far apart, considering Williams is just a rookie.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 25, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Understood
I get it: The guy is huge, he’s awkward driving to the hoop, he’s still unreliable with his outside shot, etc., etc.
However, he’s already drawing more fouls than Beasley ever has (with lower usage to boot) and he certainly seems capable of being a pretty good inside-out threat.
While I’m all for trading the guy for the right opportunity, I can understand why we’d want to wait on him a bit longer. Adelman has proven that he can run out unconventional lineups. He might just get Williams to be a starting SF that also spends a great deal of time at PF with Love at C.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 25, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
The fouling drawing...
combined with the fact he was awesome at that very thing in college is very promising. Definitely the biggest positive take-away from his performance thus far.
I am fine with giving Williams + Love a shot, but if a Batum-level player at a position of need is available, we need to jump on it.
It doesn't sound like Batum and the Blazers are going to get an agreement before tonight's deadline
Knock, knock, Wolves!
Yessir.
If I remember right, Crash is due for a new contract at the end of the season. If POR retains him (and they should, given how he’s playing), I’m not sure if they’ll have the money to match a good offer on Batum.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Problem is
that might be a big “if.” Maybe they’ll take note of what Houston’s planning on doing with Thabeet and Flynn…there’s not rule you have to rubberstamp your options.
Also, many teams will have cap space.
Let’s just go get him today… :)
I'm not opposed to going and getting him today,
but if that fails, I’d be pissed if we didn’t try to get him after the season, and instead kept guys like Beasley and Webster.
Nuggets extended Gallinari: 4/$42 million.
Tough to compare, but he’s virtually the same age as Batum, comes from the same draft class, and plays the same position. He’s a starter, though, and gets more minutes, so I’d guess this might be Batum’s ceiling.
I’d give Batum 4/$40 if that’s what it took to bring him to Minny. I really think this is who they should target.
I'm not great with contracts,
but that’s about what I was thinking. I don’t know whether that’s too much for Portland to match. If we let Beasley, Webster, Miller, Randolph, and Tolliver go, we should have room for that + low-level guys to fill out the roster.
Is Batum that good?
I haven’t specifically scouted him, but he hasn’t stood out to me the times I’ve watch the Blazers play. How does he get his points? Defense? Advanced stats?
by stuntmonkeys on Jan 25, 2012 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
Depends on how good he has to be to be "that good"
Others can chime in, but I think he’s a better version of everything we said we wanted in Afflalo. Good defense, efficient offense, a position of need. Just a good fit for us.
The folks at Blazers Edge seem kind of split on paying him. A lot of them think he’s not aggressive enough, or that’s how I read it.
Wes?
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Jan 25, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
I don't see why everyone is so mad
If the Wolves aren’t good in 3 years Love would likely be requesting a trade even if he had the 5 year deal. This puts pressure on the team to improve and gives them some flexibility, also, I would be very surprised if Kahn is here 3 years from now when it’s time to negotiate again.
Yeah, I actually kind of like this deal
Puts an additional sense of urgency on the FO. I’ve lost patience with the rebuilding process, we need to get good now!
(or until the end of this year)
when his contract expires.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Is O.J. Mayo and Andrea Barnagi big enough deals to make us contenders?
by RaysOfHope on Jan 25, 2012 12:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Bargnani is a very good player
although (a) not available and (b) not complementary to Love.
by PDGirl on Jan 25, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Unfortunately the only OJ Mayo available to us
is the one that got worse every year he was in the NBA. The really good, sure to be a #1 overall pick high school OJ Mayo only exists in an alternate universe.
by TenderWolf on Jan 25, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
let me take a step back and enjoy this signing
i mean, he could have not signed! how about if we didn’t fire rambis? imagine how bad we would be feeling right now.
“I was willing to make a commitment for five years. They thought otherwise,” he said. “I’m glad this is out of the way. It was drawn out until 8 a.m., 9 a.m. this morning.”
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/138056198.html
F**k. Stupid move IMO.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 25, 2012 12:32 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Nah that's the bear, shortly after this.
http://www.canishoopus.com/2012/1/14/2708239/nikola-pekovic-vs-grizzly-bear-per-request
Pek got called for the offensive foul.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 25, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Such a failure
Why does our FO not respect Love? Freaking idiots!!!
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 12:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
this could be the first and only time we'll all ever see that
the compromise between 5 and 4 is….
3
weird.
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Former editor of SLAM Magazine tweeted this:
Ryan Jones @thefarmerjones
1 of these 2 things is true: I just traded text messages with Kevin Love. He’s not at all bitter about how this contract thing went down.
Take it as you will.
I wish our owner wasn't an idiot
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 1:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think Ray Richardson
just became the Alpha Dog in that Media Room.
Dave Checkets he was not…nice work
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 12:33 PM CST reply actions
I'd guess
Kahn leaked the news to him to give Jerry Z the shaft over all the crap he writes about him.
Um, I said this was the result two days ago
And I included the opt-out!
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Well Love is about as good as gone
The writing is on the wall. Fuck you Kahn and Taylor. Why do I put so much time into following a team that has such clearly inept management? The only great players this team has had they have lucked into. I have no doubt that Kahn will not make a contender, and even if he does, Love still will probably leave so that he can form his own superteam.
SCREW THIS!
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 12:38 PM CST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Yep.
He’s a max level player. We had him. Could have had him for a 5 year extensions and hopefully beyond. Instead we insulted him and gave him the leverage to push for a trade of his choosing in 2 and 1/2 years.
I’m happy he’s signed, but this deal isn’t better than letting him go to RFA and matching. It’s possibly worse.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Jan 25, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
True, but this was less likely than Love getting seriously hurt in my guestimation.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Exactly
If Love wasn’t already done with our management he sure is now. And why not? They obviously haven’t given him any respect from day 1. I just dont understand how they can be so stupid. Yeah you have more flexibility but youve virtually guaranteed that he won’t be in a mood to resign when the time comes. This was an insult, especially coming off the 5 year max for Westbrook.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 12:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Nothing says done quite like contractually obligating yourself to a group for 3 more years.
by foertsch on Jan 25, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Wolves had tremendous leverage...
there is a reason good players almost never take the QO route at this stage.
The Timberwolves used that leverage to give Love a solid “fuck you.” Love had to sign for 3 more years, or sacrifice huge value.
by vjl110 on Jan 25, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
help me out here...
so the Wolves will have zero financial advantage when negotiating the next contract?
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Are you happy with this?
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 12:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The good news is that Kahn will be gone
After reading about how Kahn handed Love the contract in the locker room, and so on, it is certain that the Adelman clan will dump Kahn after this year.
Then we get a good POBO who can repair the relationship with Love, and it’s all ok. Assuming we can get some good players, and I trust Adelman & Co to be able to do that.
So we are fine and we have a bit more in cap space/year to work with. Maybe this was all orchestrated to make Kahn look bad and give Glen the stones to pass Kahn to another org. He’s employable, but in a sal-cap role, IMHO.
Adelam clan will dumb Kahn? Wtf are you talking about? Last time I checked, Kahn is the POBO, Adelman is the coach
I have little doubt that Taylor is keeping Kahn until he absolutely needs to get rid of him. Do you remember how long McHale lasted on Garnett’s coattails? The same thing is happening with Rubio and Love. Kahn isn’t going anywhere, and I see no reason to believe that Adelman has any input on whether or not that stays true.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
RJ Adelman works in the Wolves front office now
(son of Rick)
Kahn is still the POBO as far as we know but there was a lot of speculation that his role was getting neutered.
Interesting
I wonder how involved he is
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
z
I missed all that speculation. Where did you read that?
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 25, 2012 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
(on this site)
SnP says he has heard that DK is now relegated to the treadmill at the TC Lifetime, at least in terms of talent evaluation decisions. (I’d point you to a specific thread, but I can’t remember…it’s been referred to a lot since the labor agreement was reached/the season began). I’m not sure he’s the only one who’s said this, but I know he has.
I don't believe that RA signed without a fair
amount of input on personnel decisions. This doesn’t mean real control of such choices, but I would have to imagine he weighed in on what he felt KLoves value to the teams long term plans was as well as what his experience has been in how contracts will affect team chemistry. It is GTs decision in the end, but Kahn isn’t the only voice in the room on this decision. GT is the final voice on this which makes me believe he was looking harder at bottom line than at value to the fans. Disappointing to say the least….
2012 the year of Twolves porcelain extraction?
Obviously
Tgat’s not the point. 3 years is nothing. This shit is going to be a distraction. Look at Dwight or any of the other stars who want out. They should have locked him up for 5
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 12:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yup.
The real issue to me is that he WANTED five years. It’s not even like we couldn’t persuade him to take it. He was holding out for it, and we wouldn’t give it to him.
None of whom held their team ransom afterwards.
This contract negotiation is just barely better than the QO route.
For the love of god, he WANTED TO SIGN FOR 5?!?! And we said no?!!? What/how/who thought that we should do this type of idiocy?
Maybe in the 3rd year
Not before then… plus they can always extend his deal for more years at any time (correct me if I’m wrong on this).
Just vent and get it out...
then step away from the ledge, CoJa…you know you’ll stick around to see how it all plays out. Who knows?
Of course I will stick around
Its just that I have been following the league for the past few years and this is looking like he’s going to flee
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 1:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Here is what I want to know
Was the teams reluctance to give him 5 years just them being cheap? Or was it because they want to save the designation?
I'd throw...
..Glen sticking it to uppity players in there, too. Just Glen. Not other minority owners or Kahn. And no, that doesn’t make sense…which is kind of the point with Glen and basketball. (Just my 2 cents after digging around. I’m saying this is in no way, shape, or form on Kahn.)
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 25, 2012 2:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't surprise me that it's not on Kahn
It seems like all the Adelmans in the organization would have thrown a fit over this and escalated it to Glen if it was just Kahn.
That's awful
I can’t decide which is worse, an absent Glen or an active Glen.
Not suprising
If Taylor was competent at all we would have a much better franchise history
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone take a Deep Breath...
and ENJOY this!
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 12:45 PM CST reply actions
Pissing off the second best player our team has seen
to no tangible benefit?
This is not something that brings me joy.
then enjoy
your joylessness for the next 4 years with a player option in the 3rd year.
which could very well be a 2 year extension to the 4 years so make that 6.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
There is 0 chance of this contract running the full term unless Love gets injured.
This is a 3 year contract.
Based on how the salary cap is calculated and how the new ‘bird rights’ work, after 3 he could sign here for the % of the cap dictated by the BRI split (which I assume goes up)
What are the benefits to us of this contract?
…. crickets ….
we lose the oportunity cost of the 5th year, we lose the cheaper salary of the 5th year, we lose the cheaper 4th year to boot, and he will likely opt out for a superfriends team 2.5 years into the deal and demand a trade. We all know how tempermental love is (see his history of tweets and his reaction to ref calls) and we just spit in his face for the loyalty he was offering.
I don’t know what on earth you are talking about with a player option for the 4th year somehow morphing into a 2 year extension. No 26-27 year in their prime is going to sign a 2 year extension EVER. EVER.
Shoot, we would have been better off waiting to do the QO and then match whatever 4 year guaranteed offer someoen else offered him! If you’re going to disrespect your player, might as well get value from it.
So enjoy your koolaid.
by bustaone on Jan 25, 2012 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
my kool aid
stays cold for 3 years, guaranteed.
whatever your drinking is half empty and may or may not leave in 4 years.
as Mike Tice always used to say…ENJOY THE SEASON!
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty sure he just replaced Martz
as offensive coordinator in Chicago. Was also close to interviewing for a head coaching gig.
He's Ricky Rubio. He’s not like anyone else.
"may or may not leave in 2.5 years"
fixed it for you.
just want to confirm
you’re arguing for your right to be joyless?
I get it, some people love to be joyless…i’m fine with that if you are.
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
I don't understand your angle here.
Me watching my hometown team act reprehensibly stupidly does not have anything to do with the amount of ‘joy’ I wish to experience (whatever that means).
I could play your game and offer “you must find joy in downright stupidity” and it would be a comparible response. But maybe you do. There seems to be some sort of disconnect for you on how these things work, despite years of previous examples (lebron, bosh, paul, howard).
I know from the game threads that you're a big name caller...
sorry to hear that. but maybe you should move to a higher flight path for some perspective. this is not something to be throwing a tantrum over…sorry i’m not taking the bait.
that’s all i got to say about this, i’ll go back to drinking the 3 years all i can drink kool aid. .
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Very confused.
I asked you to explain your angle…
You accuse me of throwing a tantrum and name calling?
Good luck with your 3 year contract + option picked up + 2 year extension fantasy. But you better watch that koolaid, it’s going to give you cavities.
This, this is right...
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
Do people really think
that the 5 year contract meant Love would have played out a happy 5 years in MN? The way I see it if we don’t build a contender he would have been gone in 3 years anyways via a trade demand.
by Free Tony T on Jan 25, 2012 12:48 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
He wouldn't have an option.
He signs for 5, and he plays for 5. Even in the situation where he is unhappy, he doesn’t get to start pulling a Melo for another 4 years, rather than 2.
This
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 1:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This is how I am comparing the contracts in my mind.
Option A) 5 year max: You get three to five years of hopefully happy, healthy KLove depending on how fast the team improves. More guaranteed money on the table, less cap space, no 5 year max available.
Option B) 4 year w/ option: You get two to four years of hopefully happy, healthy KLove depending on how fast the team improves. Less guaranteed money on the table, more cap space, and you still have the 5 year max available.
Either way you get a few good years of Rubio/Love before things are either clearly improving and the team makes a deep playoff run, or everything falls apart and its back to rebuilding. The only difference I see is that Option B gives you a better chance at adding that illusive third piece.
The fact that back to rebuilding is a possibility here
Makes me want to barf. Its been 7 or 8 years now. Think about that.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
I'd rather not
I’ll just stop paying for League Pass if it comes to that.
Anyone know how much Mama Taj got?
I’m just curious what the dollars came to in that alternate universe, the WNBA.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
I feel bad for Beasley right now
Everyone is sticking a mic in his face asking “Do you think Love will sign a max deal for 4 or 5 years?” “Do you think today is a great day or a really great day?”
Meanwhile he is in exactly the same situation with nary a hint of an extension for him.
I don’t think the Wolves should resign him to a big deal or anything. I just feel bad and hope the press keeps this in mind and shows some consideration.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 25, 2012 12:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
the good news is that
he’s not in Dallas right now.
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Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't you hear?
The wolves just gave Beasley the 5 years 80 million committment
by DR_JPK on Jan 25, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
The press should ask tough questions
and Beasley should be able to handle the questions. If not, he’s got plenty of money to educate himself.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jan 25, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
The bottom line seems to be that if the Wolves are good enough in 3 years,
getting Love to not opt out and to sign another extension should be a lot easier. If they aren’t good enough, we have much bigger problems anyway, and they should probably just move to Kansas City.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
by TimAllen on Jan 25, 2012 12:57 PM CST reply actions 13 recs
Also
Kahn will most likely be gone, potentially erasing some left over bitterness from these negotiations.
by MoreJuice on Jan 25, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Its not just Kahn. Its Taylor.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 1:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Definitely maybe
You crazy car, I don't know whether to eat you or kiss you
by John Truckasauras on Jan 25, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Sums it up perfectly
We have to get a third amigo and all will be well.
Then we won’t have to waste our time dissecting our role players.
my feelings exactly
This more than a player, its the franchise, We need to improve in 3 year regardless
Tim, that’s assuming Love doesn’t care about the city he plays for. He really had no choice for this contract, we’ll see how he really feels in 3 years when he has options.
If the Wolves are a contender in three seasons, I have a hard time imagining that Love
would leave, even if he really loves Los Angeles.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
by TimAllen on Jan 25, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
thank god someone is the voice of reason
you can’t compare this contract to OKC with Westbrook. He completely lucked out that Durant already had his contracts on the books so OKC could throw whatever money they wanted at him.
And I don’t think Love is the type of PERSON that Melo is or Howard. Howard clearly just cares about where he plays, not winning. If he wanted to win he would go to Chicago, instead he seems content with going to a near washed up Lakers team. Melo seemed to care more about money and where he was playing. Love seems like the type of guy that will stay if he likes the team and coach, regardless of where that team is.
As Tim said, if we still suck in three years, we have bigger problems to worry about than “will KLove leave.”
This also
gives Love a ton of leverage when Adelman’s contract expires (and Adelman might be ready to retire for real when it does). Suddenly we’ve got a Lebron situation where the player gets to choose the coach….
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
People.
Do you really think Kevin Love would have signed this contract if he was so miserably unhappy? This is business. It might ruffle a few feathers, but when we have the 5 year designated player to sign Rubio or someone else the team will be in better shape, which is ultimately what we all want! Kevin is making max money, has flexibility with the team, and may be able to make even more money signing a new contract in 3-4 years. Trust me he’s not crying himself to sleep, nor is he waiting to screw us all in 3 years, because Kahn was a tough negotiator.
Unicorns, Leprechauns, and Magic F***ing Beans!
by NYCVike on Jan 25, 2012 12:58 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
Great way to explain it.
Rec’d.
If he continues to do what he does, he will earn a bigger contract with us after that as well.
Only problem
You are incorrect. Kahn stated it wasn’t about the money or the designated player status. He said he wasn’t contemplating Rubio as the designated player either.
Kahn said that it was solely about the length of the contract.
The problem for Kahn (and consequently us fans) is that the market has been set by Westbrook and Rose, peers in Love’s viewpoint.
This isn’t about nickel-and-diming a bonafide max player to eek out the “best” bargain. This is about not paying Love his due as set by the market.
There is one reason Love went with the 4th year free agency scenario: because Kahn messed his own pants. He tried to play cute.
Love will carry a grudge about this just as he has with coming off the bench for Rambis.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
by Flagrant on Jan 25, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
edit: It IS about paying Love his due as set by the market
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
If it inspires him to great heights
Then I’m fine with it. Kevin Love with a good chip on his shoulder seems a-ok by me.
+1
Kahn needs to leave. And Taylor as well. Though I know that latter is not happening.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that grudge about Rambis bringing him off the bench has really decreased his improvement and his motivation
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 25, 2012 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
To me, the 3 years plus option is splitting the difference between 4 or 5 years.
Just as you said, that is a better deal for Kevin. If he’s not getting the extra year, the option swings the deal back into his (and his agent’s) court. The money is on the table for 4 years, but gives him more flexibility. That’s a win-win if Glen was in no way going to go for 5 years.
I always thought the splitting the difference between 4 or 5 years would be
a half year contract with a half year option. =)
I would rather have had the 4.5!
But, from Love’s camp, the 3+option should be better than 4. Whether they negotiated it or Kahn let them have it to sweeten it for Love’s agent, then so be it. It’s all irrelevant if they suck, I guess.
Off topic...
But, sounds like Cuban would like to move Marion to clear cap space for next summer. Beasley for Marion straight up works.
Marion would check-out so quickly once he got here.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 25, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
Marion doesn't work hard enough
To benefit from Rubio. I’ve been watching him. He’s horrible. Now watch him score 40 tonight on 19 shots.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
He's owed 8.6 mill for this year and 9.3 mill next when he will be 35.
That said, he is putting up pretty nice numbers this season:
TS%: .520, EFG%: .492, .158 WS/48. Doesn’t turn it over, doesn’t take a lot of 3s, only 1.2 per game, but he’s hitting 42.9% this season. Also doesn’t get to the line very much.
Hmm.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
It does.
I would take Batum over Marion every time.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Having another Euro would be cool
Imagine the fan base we’d get — Spain, France, Balkan countries. If we could get a German player too, we’d cover most of the European continent and be a fave in Europe.
I think that would be a big deal in 2-3 years.
And possibly get a few players voted into the allstar game!
Ricky was 3rd of guards last I saw..
Beasley is owned money next year too
on the rookie scale as the #2 pick. The numbers are pretty close to what Marion is getting.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jan 25, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
No he isn't.
The Wolves can choose to offer the QO offer which is the money pretty close to what Marion is getting. If they do so Beasley will be a RFA and the Wolves can match any offersheet he signs to retain him. As of now they haven’t picked up his QO and aren’t committed to paying him after this season. That could change.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Sounds like Stern is offering is offering Gordon 4 yrears too.
Stern and Taylor thinking alike, hmm.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
Kahn did Stern a solid
Now he owes us one. ;-)
Does that mean we'll get the #1 pick this year?
oh…wait.
Reason is the first victim of strong emotion.
Zgoda:
Kahn said 4-year insistence wasn’t about $ or D.P. slot, but 5 yr deal is really 6 years out and “that’s a long time.” Too much uncertainty
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
So it really was the Wolves balking
What maroons
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 25, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe cheapskates more than morons
I think to some extent the new rule in the NBA for teams is going to be flexibility. Look at NYC versus Dallas. NYC gets Chandler releases Billups and now they are stuck.
I think fans are going to have to learn a lot more about the business side of things in the NBA in the next couple of years. I don’t agree with the Love deal, and it’s going to cause angst starting midway through the season after next, but who knows what kind of player he will become now that he’s getting paid. Who knows if he will stay healthy?
We’ve got Love for 3 years and I’m happy with that. I’d be happier with 5 years, but it is what it is.
Hell...
The 3 years until possibly getting to opt out SHOULD at least motivate Love to stay in the best health possible, continue to grow his game, get better, so that it’s even an option to him to force his way to the team he wants.
by Krotz the Wall on Jan 25, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
The Concept of Option Value is relevant here
Obviously Love wanted the certainty of 5 years. While he has risk if he declines or gets injured, he has the certainty of 4 years if he wants it (the option is his). If he’s kicking ass, he’s going to have tremendous opportunities — stay here, or move on. Especially if the Wolves suck or Adelman decides he’s going to retire at the end of his deal. This to me is a BETTER deal for Love than a 4 year deal. Not as good as 5 years would be for him (though that could be argued because if the Wolves suck all 5 years he could wish he hadn’t done it), but better than just a straight 4 year deal. Significantly better I would say.
For us fans, however, it is not as good. But in case anyone forgot about the lockout, this isn’t really about us. This is about how the Owners and the Players divide up the pie. . .
It's not as good for us Fans
If he actually goes out and earns his Max contract, this team becomes a winner and a challenger, and then Love opts out and forces a trade that is definitely not in the Wolves favor as a competitive team. None of that is a given. Also, Love’s continued health as a very active, physical rebounder, and FTA getter is also to be questioned.
by Krotz the Wall on Jan 25, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Here's where the fan in me gets my hopes up
If RR progresses and makes Love a better player and they can flip Williams for something (or somehow get him to play with Love), we do have a chance at getting a “Big Three” here and being a force in the Western Conference. If that’s the case, Love isn’t going to have a lot of better options. If he wants to go to the West Coast in three years or wants to play in a state with no income tax, then so be it.
If the Wolves blow it and they aren’t competitive with the OKCs of the world then it will suck, and we’ll be talking trade ideas around the deadline in 2014. But this gives us a real chance and gives Love real value while making a smaller long-term commitment. Not ideal maybe, but given the uncertainty surrounding a team like the Wolves, this is far from a bad result.
So 4 years is okay but 5 years is too much uncertainty?
Seems a bit arbitrary to me on the part of the FO…
by Black Jack Davy on Jan 25, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Meh... Love signed a deal to stay with the Wolves for multiple years. That is the take away right now.
It’s a 4 year deal with the option for Love to opt out and for the Wolves to add 2 years… So anywhere from 3 to 6 years.
That’s 3.5 years for the team to build toward being a winner. To make the team a place where players want to play to chase that championship. If Love opts out to check out the market, the Wolves will still be able to offer him the biggest contract. Other teams will still have to fit his contract into the Cap, so we’d be looking at a sign and trade possibility down the road.
Love gets paid now, and he has a chance to get another big contact 4 years from now. The team has an option to extend his contract, if Love wants, for two more years at MAX higher than any other team can. The team maintains some cap flexibility by not extending guaranteed money by a year and maintaining their ability to give out only 1 5 year contract.
Coming out of the lock out, it has always seemed the Love has been about making as much money as he can, as due course, even being upset that he couldn’t make as much as Rose, rather than making a lot of money and making sure that the Wolves are well positioned to challenge in the future. The question always should have been more IF Love really wants to play here, rather than just the money is going to be best here for now, rather than if Rubio would play in MN.
I will get on my soapbox and say...
Beasley is going to be a productive member of this team by season’s end.
It’s all about learning your roll and Adelman will get through to him.
I've been trying to imagine
what’s going through Beasley’s head as he’s sitting on the couch watching Rubio emerge. “Damn, I gotta get back so he can make me look good!” or “Damn I gotta get back so I can jab step on the wing for half the shot clock!”
by Los Lobos Del Bosque on Jan 25, 2012 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
Or, Damn if I got out there I could sure make that Rubio look good."
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 26, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
FOUR MORE YEARS OF MOMENTS
(You know, unless he opts out…)
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
by TimAllen on Jan 25, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well...
It’s a bit more than 4 years from now to the trade deadline in that 3rd year of the new contract, so strictly speaking… their point STILL STANDS!!!
by Krotz the Wall on Jan 25, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
I kind of hope we don't get
four more years of douche-y celebrations. How about just four more years of things worth celebrating?
If you didn't enjoy that W vs the Clips
Seek help. ;-)
Oh, I enjoyed it plenty,
but watching it back is more and more painful. Would it have killed him to smile, or celebrate with his teammates in some other way than allowing them to touch him? I fully stand by my assessment of its douche-y-ness.
by Madison Dan on Jan 25, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
KLove doesn't know where you get that from...
by jianfu on Jan 25, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
In this pic,
Love looks he’s turned down the $60mil, taken his vows and joined the church.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 26, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Ahh, you have to love the way sports reveal character
You may have a point.
I took it as, “If finally won a game on a last shot.”
Thats kinda how Love rolls
He’s got that west coast arrogance about him.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 25, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
He had a nice embrace with Rubio at the end
and some nice moments with Wayne and Martell from what I saw at the end of that game. I think he went for the swag pose after the actual shot, but he didn’t ignore his teammates at all.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
Watch it back
and see how long it takes him to get there. But I did like the Rubio hug — it seemed like it reflected a bond that’s not there with the other guys (I’m probably reading too much into it).
Yeah, I really prefer the "angry celebrations"
that have become the norm in basketball and football. The great play as excuse to tap into the rage of being disrespected for a player’s entire life. Can’t get enough of that.
I Liked the Clippers Celebraish
That was a killer shot, worthy of a little bravado, especially coming on the road.
I've been beaten down by this club for so long that it looks up to me.
I'm always leery of max deal moves in any sport...
So I’m completely ok with this deal.
You gotta pay the troll toll, to get into this boy's soul.
twitter.com/JayAreW
For those of us who aren't pretending we understand the new CBA
Does anyone have solid info on how the structure of this deal helps/hurts?
Just an FYI, from Bucher’s Twitter feed..
RicBucher
KLove isn’t thrilled, but the TWolves took full advantage of the new CBA. It’s what a small-market team has to do to have a chance.
by 30-30 Club on Jan 25, 2012 1:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
He's an idiot.
The CBA allows the Wolves to get 5 years when no one else can. They didn’t
Otherwise RFA allows us to cheap out offer the QO and then match on the lower 4 year max he’d get elsewhere.
We paid him more that other teams could without getting additional time. This was stupid.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
All this hand waving over not signing for 5
sheds a light into a fan base that lacks confidence, always looking at things from the perspective of what can go wrong will go wrong.
Not to say that everyone doesn’t have a good reason to think this way, but its demoralizing man.
I believe the best way to keep both Rubio and Love is by having the 5 year in the back pocket (I could be wrong), and when you want to win a championship thats how you run a business. A confident fan base would understand this and believe that Love will stay because we’re gonna get better and he’ll resign….or hell, maybe this team wins a championship in 3 years?
Believe me, i’m surrounded by Mets fans and there isn’t a more pathetic fan in all of sports…this kinda attitude right here is Mets fan like.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 1:32 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
The thing that popped into my head as I read this is...
screw you.
by Madison Dan on Jan 25, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
exactly what a Mets fan would say.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
that has bratwurst
in your grocery stores.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
This is bull.
It’s pretty well established that a player will sign a 4 yr max, so why did they need the 5 yr apple on a stick for Rubio? To make sure they could keep him here long after Love is gone? No, they could have inked a contract ensuring that their star pair would be playing together for the next 5+ years, but they chose not to.
To me it's about making sure you are putting your money behind the right players
Maybe #1 player is Love, in which case that can lock him up big next time.
Or maybe it’s Rubio. Or maybe someone else. And maybe all three take similar deals a la Miami. Who knows.
Over this period of time we’ll have a good idea of where we are at and how we should allocate our assets.
isn't it given that love will opt out after 3 years?
and sign a more monstrous contract or just leave? i’m not good with teh maths so i don’t know exactly, but the wolves “saving money” probably costs them more in the long run.
Yes
The whole point of 3 years until Love controls his own destiny is that he can negotiate another deal.
Lebron, Wade, Paul, and Melo all did this and please, please forget that none of them are with the teams that agreed to those deals. Crap.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Jan 25, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
(So did Dwyane Wade.)
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
by feral on Jan 25, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it depends on how good we are
If we make like the Thunder and are a good team, then he’ll stick around. 3 years is enough time to see if the FO is going to give him a good team. If we don’t give him a supporting cast, then he’s only 26 and he’s got plenty of career left to make it somewhere else. And if we do, he signs a big deal to stick around.
and my point is that he'll opt out either way
to sign a bigger contract. it will be something that will hang over the team his third year.
That's just the thing though...
In this CBA, only a players current team can offer a 5 year contract, only one per team during the length of the CBA, and only his current team can offer the bigger per year raises. So, say in 4 years, Love has opted out and his playing his 3rd year. He’ll want to try to force that Sign and Trade so that he can get as big a contract as possible, or sign with a team that offers good money and a chance to win a championship.
Over 4 years, Love really couldn’t have had a bigger contract, only one 1 year longer. 4 years from now, when he’s negotiating that potential new deal, he’ll be dealing with the same CBA. The team he wants to be traded to may or may not have a 5 year deal available, and he’ll probably be in-line for a 4 or 5 year MAX. Any team he goes to will still have to deal with the stiffer Luxury Tax, and an even more limited MLE.
The way Love gets the most money is to use his opt out clause to renegotiate with the Wolves, prior to the opt out, and add another 4 years at the MAX.
by Krotz the Wall on Jan 25, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
This
Is a fantastic angle I hadn’t even thought of.
by Vandelay Ind. on Jan 25, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
He'd have to opt out first
New CBA doesn’t allow for extensions of more than one year. So he would opt in and sign a one year extension, which means he’d only get the five years we initially didn’t offer. If he opts out he could sign another five year deal as an FA re-signing with his own team, but then we run the risk of him signing somewhere else.
We won't be a playoff contender
until we have a bench player with a massive beard (a la James Harden/Baron Davis). I think Wayne’s got the most potential.
The Gerald Ford Presidential Library has a wall hanging,
given to Ford at the Bicentennial in 1976, depicting all the U.S. Presidents to that point – all with big white beards. JFK, FDR, Ford himself…. All bearded.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I have a massive beard.
And I am willing to sit on the bench for the minimum.
by PoundFoolish on Jan 25, 2012 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
Kahn did give Ryan Hollins a 3-year deal as well
so the precedent was there…
by rickyp on Jan 25, 2012 1:40 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Man, if we still had Hollins we would be unbeatable
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
I really hope reports that the WOLVES balking at 5 years is wrong
It honestly makes NO sense. Even if you want to “save” that 5 year thing for Ricky, that’s such a long way away. It’s outsmarting yourself. If you guys aren’t legitimate contenders (not just potentially) by the end of year 2, the Wolves might as well blow it up and trade Love. Which would leave the team rebuilding again with not that many pieces, leading to Rubio eventually wanting to leave as well.
If Love wanted this deal, it makes sense that he wants to see progress before committing long term. For the Wolves, this makes no type of sense.
GM options?
Does this give Kahn & Co. more negotiating power (actual or perceived) in an attempt to lure other players here? I think yes, but I don’t know how much more. Could be negligible to … Dwight Howard???
Definitely not Dwight Howard. He’s really looking at market, not potential. He wouldn’t even commit to Chicago. Not even the Clippers. Both teams with a ton of talent. No reason to think he’d even consider a market like Minny + the team isn’t good yet.
Yeah, DH wasprobably a bad example
But, is there anyone else, either in trade or FA scenarios, that the front office could be thinking the designated player option might help entice? DH was the first person I could think of. Maybe Deron Williams? (Ignoring Rubio for a second, since I’m attempting to phrase the question that the front office might be thinking really big.)
The Designated Player Clause
Applies to guys on their rookie contracts only. It allows one player to sign a five year extension that starts after his rookie contract.
Personally I think this deal sucks for us
The PO is just brutal. No chance he doesn’t opt out without an extension after that. I’d much rather have just given him a 5 year max contract
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I don't know what I meant by PO
But I meant Opt Out
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Pretty sure you meant Player Option
My question to all this reaction is simply, do you think in 4 years that Rubio or Love are more likely to move to another team? I like having a Rubio 5-year option available. I think Love is less likely to move to another team than Rubio. If we have Rubio and Love 3 years from now(which we should), we will have a team winning more often than losing. If we are winning, then Love and Rubio may both want to stay and add another free agent to this team rather than taking a chance elsewhere. Love scores and Rebounds, but he did those equally well last year and we won 17 games. Add Rubio and the same team is very near .500 ball and has outscored their opponents for the season. Last season, our average game was a double-digit loss. This season, we have been in virtually every game other than the most recent game. Rubio doesn’t have jaw-dropping numbers yet, but he is more of a catalyst for wins than any other player on this roster.
by Imyourhuckleberry on Jan 25, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
Much of the national media seems to think the Wolves made out well....
Ric Bucher
@sportsguy33 You’re saying Minn should pay a guy more than the market requires? Call security. Jim Dolan hijacked Simmons’ account.
Connor Huchton
ConnorHuchton
This is the most ridiculous reaction I’ve ever seen Twitter have to anything.
ConnorHuchton
it’s a four-year, max deal. This is not some odious slight. If Love hated the deal, he wouldn’t have signed it.
ConnorHuchton
And the idea of speculating on how this will affect Love’s mood three years from now is ridiculous in itself.
Zach Harper
@WorldwideJames Overreacting for no reason. They re-signed him. Now they have less time to build. I like that aspect. Make it work now.
talkhoops Zach Harper
This organization has been looking toward a couple years from now for 23 years. This makes them focus on now. Last strategy never worked.
@kevinlove You mean you’re not definitely opting out in 3 years?!? BUT I READ THAT ON THE INTERNET JUST NOW
by bbeeck on Jan 25, 2012 1:58 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
@WorldwideJames Overreacting for no reason. They re-signed him. Now they have less time to build. I like that aspect. Make it work now.
that’s what I don’t like about this.
This how Cleveland trades for Antaawn Jamison and then is stuck with him for 2 years after LeBron leaves…this is how bad basketball decisions are made.
Fairness in conversation…bad basketball decisions were made previously under this regime.
I’d rather have had 5 years and continue to slowly build under Adleman for the rest of this year and next.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
The problem with that is
if they aren’t good enough fast enough, Love essentially forces a trade in 3 yrs and/or when Adelman leaves anyways.
right
so we basically have to make a bad basketball decision if it will bring a 3rd talent in.
My nightmare would be something like McGee to a toxic offer sheet Wash wouldn’t match and then trading Williams for an aging Kevin Martin.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
we would absolutely win games with that team
but that is questionable at best basketball management from my perspective
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No indication
Kahn has given no indication that he he operates under desperation and to the whims of his stars.
Also whats with your infatuation with getting 3 stars? Not trying to be a dick but with a 3rd “star” we would be closer to NY than the Heat.
I say get solid contributers from the rest of your team instead of surrounding 3 stars with garbage
by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 25, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
I said 3rd talent
and not 3rd star
The consensus on CH seems to be trade DWilll for a wing. Which is great in theory, but outside of Eric Gordon I am of the belief there isn’t a trade out there that in the long run we will win with or at least break even on.
With Rubio and Love there is no way we are closer to the Knicks than the Heat. If we were to get an Eric Gordon I would make a case that our big three is actually better than the Heats
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No not even close to the heat
Gordon would constitute star, Batum is talent.
Wade and LeBron will be miles ahead of Love and Rubio when all is said and done.
by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 25, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
The Heat without Wade, 4-1...
…the Wolves without Gordon and with whatever they trade for Gordon, 7-10.
You could make a better argument for LeBron over Rubio, Love, and Gordon than you can for Rubio, Love, and Gordon over LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.
by Ray Williams? on Jan 25, 2012 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
That might be a bit of an exaggeration
but LeBron sort of epitomizes those that argue that his production yields better performing team results than Love’s. What other team could James Jones sport a .148 WS/48 on? All he has to do is stand in a corner and fire 3’s because LeBron (and Wade for that matter) can create off the dribble. JJ doesn’t need to dribble. He doesn’t need to pass. He doesn’t need to move all that much. As a result he rarely turns it over and only takes 3’s, which yields a WS/48 that is higher than Ricky Rubio’s.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 25, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
At some point
A team that’s interested in contending probably needs to overpay for someone. Then you just hope for the best. And while Kahn has been prudent in terms of the big contracts, he’s been nickel and diming this franchise with mid-level deals to below average players like Darko and Pekovic. Those hurt our flexibility nearly as much.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 25, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
If we still aren't good enough
In three years it will be time press reset anyway.
I’d say the team believe Rubio is the cornerstone in a couple of seasons.
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
Yeah...
I guess.
I think though if you focus on the draft and making smart bball moves and had given Love a 5 year deal….we wouldn’t have to press restart in 3 years if it doesn’t all go well
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Agreed
I don’t want to hit reset anymore. We’ve done that enough.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
Nonsense
Look how long it took Dallas to win with Dirk, or for KG to get to the WCF. Three years is nothing. Many of these guys don’t win championships til they’re in their thirties. You pick a guy as your franchise cornerstone, and you stick with him and build around him for a decade.
by HowManyFoulsOnShaq? on Jan 25, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
This is what I think
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Slow nothing
You dont need to slowly build, we have 2 future all stars and some decent assets (not great but can work) and cap space. Adelman(s) can evaluate talent and Kahn can negotiate. We can strike now there is nothing we need to wait around for. There are FAs available and draft picks to be had, we got the coaches to get them to work together. Waiting any longer is just dragging our feet
by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 25, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
Eh I think you misread me
Well…let me ask it like this
What does “striking now” look like to you?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Move assets
Stop playing this give them a year to figure it out crap. Wes and Beas are out who cares move them. Darko is a dud get rid of him. Same goes for Randolph. Focus on players who can play not who might be great. I was fine with swinging for the fences when we didnt have our “guys” but now we have Love and Rubio who are our core.
Finally as much talent as I think he has move williams doesnt fit and the only thing that can net us talent. I know you are against moving him for anything less than Gordan but I think this is a trade where we end up giving up the most talented player for a better fitting group of assets. To clarify I am not really for going after a KMart, Mayo, Iggy, Ellis type thing
by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 25, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
The time for waiting is over. We have 2 legit stud players.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Okay smarty pants
What are we getting for Wes and Beas? the 55th pick in the draft gonna get the job done?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Sure
Why not that is better than letting them play. Wes take up over 4 mil in cap space. Get what you can and move on
by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 25, 2012 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
how long
do you suppose Adelman stays as coach, even in an optimistic scenario?
I think they are really, really starting to take a “win now” approach.
Of course, having more than two players who can contribute to winning would be a definite plus.
by dontbesomean youngfella on Jan 25, 2012 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
From the Wolves standpoint, it basically came down to
having Love locked up for five years or three years. They chose three.
/sigh
A couple CBA clarifications
1) Designated player status only effects players coming off of rookie contracts. That player gets a 5 year extension at the max allowed with no opt outs. It can not be used on extensions after the initial rookie extension.
2) Bird rights matter. Teams with Bird rights can offer UFA a 5 year contract. Teams without can only offer 4 year deals.
3) Contract extensions for elite players only make sense on rookie deals. Other players might are better served reaching UFA status because they can get longer deals.
End result we’ll still have Bird Rights and be able to make Love the best possible offer at the end of this new deal whether he opts out or not. Disappointing that the 5 year didn’t happen, but not the end of the world. Really disappointing because he’s the type of player that the 5 year option exists for. We had the opportunity to use a specific clause to lock in our all-star and blink because 5 years was too long.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
They are not going to say this was about Rubio
But it is about Rubio. And in my feeble mind, it should be. He will be the difference between just becoming a playoff team and having a real shot to win it all.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Jan 25, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And the key point on Rubio as cornerstone
is whether we can plan today to have him locked up through 2019 or 2020?
We’re holding onto the 5 yr extension for what now?
by dropstep on Jan 25, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No
We might need five years to get him to sign at all. He’d be the first player ever to turn down max money on a rookie extension, but given how difficult it was to get him here it’s nice to have that arrow in the quiver.
That said, I would have given Love five years without thinking twice.
A very important aspect to this new contract is not being discussed
When does Love have to opt out of his 4th year by? Before the start of the third year or after the third year or in January of his third year? In other words, does it allow the Wolves the option of dealing him?
To me, it’s the difference between good business and stupid. Hopefully, Love has to declare prior to the 2014-15 season whether he’s opting out.
(And I would like to take this time to pat myself on the back for calling this outcome days ago— clap…clap)
You can't...dust...for vomit.
He could opt out
As early as the end of the second year, couldn’t he?
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
I don't know
Generally there is a period for which he has this option, maybe two weeks. The question is when that is.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Not sure where you’re getting this from. He opts out between the 3rd and 4th season. If you were to deal him, it’d be before the trade deadline during the 3rd season. Basically, exactly what happened with Melo is going to happen, especially if Love refuses to negotiate an extension during the 3rd year.
Well.. that's not an ideal result
but at least we get to put off worrying about this stuff for a while. I guess now we have to hope the front office can put some players together over the next couple of seasons.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Buzzers Are Beaten And Serbians Rule
Hanging over all of this Kevin Love back and forth
is the ghost of Jonny Flynn…just a killer.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 25, 2012 2:52 PM CST reply actions
Not a bad deal because it gives them the flexibility of adding a superstar within the next 3 years. The problem will be signing/trading for that player.
The free agency this year doesn’t look too good though. KG, Ray Allen, Dwight Howard, DWill, Gerald Wallace, CJ Miles are the most noteworthy players. I wonder if the front office has any plans to attempting to sign any of those players. One interesting player they could go for is Wilson Chandler, who will be available soon as a restricted free agent. They might also want to consider a trade for OJ Mayo. The Grizz were giving him away for cheap last year. He’s a good shooter that would compliment the offense well.
I think if the wolves had Chandler & traded for Ray Allen they would make the playoffs.
Rubio, Allen, Chandler,Love would be a nice starting tandem. Allen however, is on his last legs, so it would not be a good solution for down the line. I feel like this team needs a Michael Redd kind of player. Someone who can shoot from anywhere on the court.
I don't get the "Ink Masters" joke
can someone explain?
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Ads that peppered CH for says
A reality show with Dave Navarro.
It all makes sense now
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
CBA Question
Can a team have two “designated player” 5 year contracts if one of those players is acquired by trade? If not, this has huge potential implications to what went down today. It would mean that the Wolves would not have been able to trade Love to any team that already has a “designated player” contract. It also means the Wolves would not have been able to gain another “designated player” (such as Gordon) down the road if they signed Love to the 5 year deal.
Any info on this?
by Down in the Valley on Jan 25, 2012 3:42 PM CST reply actions
Per Larry Coon chats..
Teams are limited to 1 from their own players and 1 from players acquired from trades. He hasn’t been more specific than that yet.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
So....
If we trade DWilliams to NO for Gordon and his fresh, new contract—even if it is 5 years—by signing Love to only a 4 year deal we leave to option of signing Rubio to a 5 year deal of our own in 4 years…..Wow, that is convoluted.
I would have just given your one good, All-star player 5 years now, but it isn’t my money.
by Down in the Valley on Jan 25, 2012 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
Re-sign Window
Think about this… In three years where will the Wolves have to be to resign Love again? Rubio will be 24 and we will likely have other young assets. We will likely be on the way up still. Can Love expect us to be in the Finals by then? No. He can hope (and it’s not ridiculous), but anything can happen so it can’t be considered a big diappointment if we aren’t there yet. But in five years, the team’s stars are two years older, there’s a lot more pressure to ALREADY be there. I might be easier to extend Love a second time in three years than it would be in five.
Okay, I’m grasping for good reasons to do this deal, but there could be some kernel of truth here.
Did you miss LeBron, Dwight Howard etc. over the past few years?
There’s not much positivity to take from this, unfortunately.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
You are exactly right...
There are too many previous case-studies that indicate where this is going.
Well one of us will be right come 3 years down the line
I hope its you.
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
This is a strange response.
I think I agreed with you and we were both morose.
Ideally we are both just jaded.
Ah, thought you were being sarcastic
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Those guys weren't paired with a Unicorn
Big difference.
The reality is we don't have to think about Love for 3 seasons (including this one)
That 3rd year, the opt out talk will pop up.
At this point, we have to have a decent team within that window. Not even because of that contract but because we just have to.
We have this year to start building with Adelman. Maybe make a trade at the deadline. Make a big free agent move this summer (if possible). Then they have two years to play as a team and build chemistry and experience.
Seems like a reasonable timeline.
by Rodman99 on Jan 25, 2012 4:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
The only way I am Ok with this....
is if we were really saving our “max-contract” for Dwight Howard who already promised Kahn under the table that he wants to team up with Love and Rubio.
Honestly...
I don’t know.
If so I definitely hate this who thing more, because Howard joke aside, I was holding out some hope we could lure a “designated player” here and win with Rubio on his rookie contract.
I think the only way this makes ANY sense...
… is if we were making sure that we could deal Williams for Eric Gordon no matter what happened with his negotiations. That said, should he max out and we pull that trigger, it will be no more complicated than if Love had been given five. But then we can sign…
… Eff it. Even I can’t convince myself.
So we won't be able to sign Howard and we will lose 5 first round picks.
Rubios - "Clinically PROVEN to Help Reduce Suckiness"
I don't see the point in signing Howard, he would get very little playtime considering we have Darko
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 4:34 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
Howard WISHES he could have a lefty hook like Darko
by Spread-the-Love on Jan 25, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Yay! They avoided the worst-case scenario!
I don’t know enough about who was responsible for giving 3+1 instead of 5 to start complaining about any particular front office guy or owner. I was concerned that he’d take the qualifying offer on 12:01 a.m. July 1st (which would’ve been a sure indication he was leaving) and the Wolves would get .50 on the $1 for him. (Although, honestly, I think they could’ve traded him for a top-5 pick in next year’s draft plus other pieces if it really came down to it. A player like him that has a rookie-level cap number has one of the highest trade values in the NBA.) He’s here, the price is good, and they have to build this team capably and seriously.
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jan 25, 2012 5:34 PM CST reply actions
I was thinking about this aspect of it during my run
I do think they made a frustratingly stupid mistake by not signing him to the 5-year max, but this is not the worst possible outcome – not by a long shot. We still have one of the best young players in the NBA locked up for 3-4 years. Instead of taking the QO and becoming a restricted free agent next year, he decided to stick with the team. The front office didn’t do the best thing they could have, but the worst thing that could have happened has surely been averted.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Perspective...
Guys, I am going to take an approach to the KLove extension nobody has yet. For me, it’s all about perspective. So if you’re:
1) David Kahn: Well firstly let me say, “I’m sorry”. No, seriously, from David Kahn’s perspective I think he did the best he could which is to say I don’t think this decision came from him. I think Taylor had much more to do with offering Love a fifth year or not. Beyond that, if you actually believe Kahn had some say in this, then I contend it has more to do with Ricky than with KLove. And herein lies the intrigue to me. I find it fascinating that Kahn treats Ricky more like a parent than he does a player. For years he wooed him by sending him emails after he had good games, protected him from the media, refused any and all trade offers for him and catered to his family. In addition, in no small way, he hitched his cart to the rubicorn. Without question, if not for Rubio, Kahn would have had no chance at having his contract renewed this year. I believe Rubio may have saved Kahn’s job by making the team more competitive and increasing team revenue. Thus, I think Kahn wanted to save the 5-year player designation for Rubio as I think he feels Rubio is more irreplaceable than Love, and I think he has a soft spot in his heart for Rubio. Remember Ricky is the sole reason Kahn is not being as vilified as much this year. He is Kahn’s lone “homerun” decision. The only true feather in his cap.
2) Glenn Taylor: Let me start by saying I think Glenn was also seriously thinking of Ricky in Love’s negotiation. I think Glenn feels Rubio is more valuable to the team than Love. He is the revenue generator, the reason people jumped on the Timberwolves bandwagon this year and the golden ticket. Only the die hards like us truly recognize that KLove is as important to putting butts in the Wolves seats as Rubio is. This harkens back to statements made by people like Greg Anthony when they say Kevin Love is the better player, but one would have to consider rolling with Blake Griffin over Kevin Love at this time as an owner because he brings more money to the franchise. Beyond this sentiment one can’t help but wonder if Taylor felt burned by the Garnett contract, or if, as SnP alludes to above, he is trying to make a point on behalf of small market teams, or set a precedent within his own team. Hence, for all of these reasons, but predominantly the impact of Rubio, I feel Taylor didn’t want to sign Love for 5 years, but was amenable to maxing him out for 4. Ultimately, as Kevin would only do 4 with the player option, the resultant contract was the logical solution.
3) Kevin Love: Naturally, if you’re Kevin you wanted a 5 year contract for financial reasons, but naturally there was some ego involved. Kevin has given a great deal to the community (i.e.-purchasing tickets for fans, his coat drives, etc.), and he hasn’t complained that much despite what he had to go through the last two years with Rambis. He is the heart and soul of the team, and he sees other players with lesser numbers (i.e.-Westbrook) getting better contracts than him, and I imagine that miffs him a little. I’m sure this negotiation hurt his ego a little bit, but he’ll get over much of that when he realizes he’s making over 60 millions dollars. However, this begs the question if his angry sentiments will resurface during his next contract negotiation, or when the Wolves max out Rubio for 5 years. Only time will tell, but for Kevin this really isn’t that bad. You get 4 years maxed out if you want it, and can leave in 3 years if the Wolves organization does poorly.
4) The fan: Let me preface this by saying this is my perspective alone, and obviously not necessarily representative of all fans. Ideally, I would like to sign Rubio and KLove for 5 years each, but if signing Kevin for 4 with a player option for the fourth year guarantees me Rubio for 5 when his time comes I can’t be too angry. KLove is amazing and I’m not denying that, but he is more replaceable than Rubio. At least with KLove you have Derrick Williams and could maybe get help to replace the rebounds and points you would be losing with KLove by having a better 2, 3 and 5. However, you cannot replace what Ricky gives you in terms of court vision, help defense, man to man defense, etc. Thus, if you couldn’t sign KLove for 5 because you want to sign Ricky for 5, the next best option you have is to sign Kevin for 4. If the only way he would sign for 4 was with a player option then I’m cool with it. We still have his Bird’s rights and my understanding is we can offer him more than any other team when the time comes. As such, the hope is that, when Kevin’s contract nears its end, the Wolves will be playing well enough to entice him to resign with us. In the event that they are not then we may have to trade Kevin anyways to retool the team, and rebuild around Ricky. The major rub resides in how this contract negotiation impacted KLove. Is he angry enough to join another team when the Wolves try to extend his contract later? Again, time will tell.
When all is said and done, having no inside information, I can’t help but wonder if this negotiation had more to do with Ricky than it did with Kevin.
by bsg007 on Jan 25, 2012 5:37 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
I strongly agree that Rubio seems to be more valuable to the franchise than KLove.
Some players can sell tickets (Rubio) and some players literally scare fans away with their extreme lack of charisma (Big Al). The other thing that sells is winning but we all know that’s not happenin.
by fanslaststand on Jan 25, 2012 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
Recd!
Bsg, I think this the more likely scenario for what probably occurred in the leadup to the deal. It does seem like this might be both an all-in on the Spanish Unicorn and a chance to see how GT views the future of his investment in this team. I can’t really argue with hoping that Ricky works out long term to be both a marketing boon and the most important player on the team.
It is worrisome that GT hasn’t been reading the interleague memos on negotiating contracts, in essence they are much like the political press releases vs the legislation, we are drawing a firm line against excess( except when it applies to us)! He and Stern may be the voices in the wilderness who find that society has moved on to the newest and most expensive bauble and doesn’t care that they were pure in their convictions, but wonders why they didn’t figure out that the rhetoric meant nothing to anyone?
I’m not horribly depressed about this deal, nor I’m sure is KLove, it’s more a sense of small market-small owner regret that the big dogs still hold sway and that we try to gain an advantage at the margins…
In the end 3+? years of having the most amazingly unusual 4 locked up as a TWolf will be just fine.
2012 the year of Twolves porcelain extraction?
Official
Joe Mauer grounded into double play, second to shortstop to first, ________ out at second
by GWST11 on Jan 25, 2012 5:58 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
That contract could totally
have been crumpled in the hands of the premier rebounder in the NBA; as has been suggested by the press. Thank our stars he’s signing this one!
2012 the year of Twolves porcelain extraction?
Love has bad writing form
Hope he works on this in the offseason
90% of the crap I say on here is sarcastic
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 25, 2012 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
I just finished reading this thread and am exhausted.
At least now I can stop ignoring my daughter.
Oh wait, the game is about to start.
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