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Around SBN: NFL Owners Vote to Change Trade Deadline

Ray Allen Trade Proposal


T'Wolves trade Beasley, Randolph, and Wes Johnson

Celtics trade Allen, JuJuan Johnson (or some other cap filler), and 2012 1st rounder

T'Wolves do this trade because Beasley no longer fits into the teams plans. Randolph and Wes Johnson sweeten the pie for Boston to make them throw in a 1st in a loaded draft. Moving these players frees up more playing time for Williams. Ray Allen is the key acquisition in this trade. He would provide veteran leadership for a young team that could make the playoffs this year. His outside shooting is needed because the teams current SG are anemic from 3. Adding Ray to the lineup would spread the floor and open up driving lanes for Rubio, Love, and Williams. The real beauty of this move for the T'wolves is they come away with assets for players that either have underachieved or are no longer in their plans for the future.

Boston does this trade because they need young talent and the only way they can acquire it is through trade. Beasley has his flaws, but if he is willing, Boston's players and coaches can teach how to be a real pro. Basically the same thing for Randolph.

Thoughts?

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If I was Boston

I would pass on this trade

by B-easy on Jan 25, 2012 11:12 PM CST reply actions  

Why?

Essentially, its a pretty fair deal. Randolph and Beasley are free agents at the end of the year, so if it doesn’t work don’t resign them. Although Wes has underachieved, he was a recent lottery pick. Boston gives up one of their 2 first rounders for a former 1st rounder that may develop into a good player. At the very least, he add athleticism to a team that badly needs it

by Accension13 on Jan 25, 2012 11:27 PM CST up reply actions  

"has underachieved, he was a recent lottery pick"

Only our GM sets current player value based on where they happened to taken in an NBA draft.
Drop the Boston first rounder and it’s more reasonable.

by rickyp on Jan 26, 2012 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

I just don't see how Wes Johnson

is a trade asset at this point. He’s due 4.3M next year, then 5.4M and 7.2M if fully extended. Even if he managed to get back to his subpar output of his rookie year, he’s still massively overpaid.

by Jerwol on Jan 25, 2012 11:22 PM CST reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t think we can hype him that much and fool a GM into thinking he’s an asset. Also, I wouldn’t call Ellington’s shooting from three anemic (38%, above league avg) unless you’re straight up comparing him to Allen (56%).

by Jordan Seiffert on Jan 25, 2012 11:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Unprotected 1st?

I’d do it in an instant for MN.

by BeasleBong on Jan 25, 2012 11:29 PM CST reply actions  

Celts aren't going to 'go young'

and trade away a 1st rd pick in the process

by Mark Blunt on Jan 26, 2012 12:05 AM CST reply actions  

This

Also I expect they want better players than we’re offering for Ray.

by zebano on Jan 26, 2012 8:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, please.

You don’t put a saddle and reins on a magical unicorn, you bareback it and put faith in nature.

by JMGrady on Jan 26, 2012 3:24 AM CST reply actions  

Two words: Championship window.

This year the Wolves should try to find players for next year and farther. With Allen they will have a problem at SG two or three years from now, when it matters most. They should try someone who might fit with Ricky and they will be able to retain. Otherwise, they better keep trying to develope Wesley.

by amlmart1 on Jan 26, 2012 3:57 AM CST reply actions  

Since K-Love's re-signing

There’s a lot of rhetoric about how the Wolves have got a narrow window of time to improve. Let’s not confuse this with a Championship Window. We need to know (Kevin needs to know) at the end of that three years that we’re building towards a championship. I think we’d need a couple of more pieces to fall into place besides just acquiring RA. Presumably, he’s going to continue to be a diminishing asset each year going forward; e.g., he would not be peaking (again, presumably) when our roster really needs to come into its full flower.

I think our answer at the 2 or 3 has gotta be someone on the ascendency of their career. Guys in the twilight of their career are fine as locker room leaders and steadying presences on the court for the Wolves, but I don’t think they should be part of a nucleus.

by dontbesomean youngfella on Jan 26, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Some thoughts

There is NO WAY Boston does this trade.

Beasley and Johnson and Randolph together are hardly worth a 1st rounder right now and Boston is giving up Ray Allen too? For what? Three busts?

If we’d want Allen, we’d have to give up these players AND at least a 2nd rounder for them to even consider an offer.

by Keelhaul on Jan 26, 2012 6:21 AM CST reply actions  

Let me reiterate this

We have the following valuable assets:

Derrick Williams (worth quite a lot)
Luke Ridnour (worth a lot)
MEM 2013 1st round prot.
UTA 2012 1st round prot
2012 2nd rounder
2013 2nd rounder + another one

Semi valuable assets (or contingent assets)::

Beasley – may be worth a 2nd rounder, if he ups his play (there is a nonzero probability of that happening) a 1st rounder, an extension, etc.
Tolliver – 2nd rounder for a contender
Randolph – maybe a 2nd rounder, if he ups his level a definite 2nd round pick, expiring
Wes – 2nd rounder, if he ups his level
Darko – 2nd rounder(s), if he plays Super Darko for 75%-85% of the games, then he shouldn’t be traded for 2nd rounders, he still has value.
Pek – 2nd rounder, if he plays well, we shouldn’t trade him right now.

Non-movable assets:
Barea (cannot be traded)
Lee: guaranteed contract, first has to play to have any pricetag
Miller: no value, will be an expiring later on
Rubio, Love: obvious basketball reasons

by Keelhaul on Jan 26, 2012 6:30 AM CST up reply actions  

The more I think about it...

I realize u guys are right. I think Allen could really help this team make the playoffs and contend this year, and I think the C’s could really use the players I mentioned; however, for them to make this trade Ridnour would likely have to be included in the package going out. Also, it would be more realistic for the C’s to include a future 1st ( 2013 or later )in their package of players going out or possibly a 2nd rounder.

With those changes to the deal, I can see this getting done

by Accension13 on Jan 26, 2012 7:25 AM CST up reply actions  

In NBA 2k12 I just traded

MWebster and BMiller for Afflalo and RudyF.

by Boss10 on Jan 26, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

wow

Too bad NBA 2k12 trades don’t work in the real world.

by zebano on Jan 26, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

This is a ridiculous trade proposal

I’m not sure it would even matter if Ridnour were included…I still think it’d be bad for Boston.

by caspnasty on Jan 26, 2012 7:45 AM CST reply actions  

What I do think we should look into

is getting the Celtics 1st round pick

they are a proud team that thinks they are still contenders. if for some reason they could be convinced that something we have (Randolph would be in my estimation the best bet for convincing) would help them make the playoffs and be contenders again…..it’s one of those teams that undervalues draft picks and potentially could make a bad trade involving one to try and make the playoffs out of desperation…make a bad deal and still not make the playoffs.

The caveat is if the Celtics were willing to make this deal for their pick, I would imagine that some team would step in and be like “wait you’re thinking of giving up a first for Randolph….how about Nic Batum?” or something

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Jan 26, 2012 9:11 AM CST reply actions  

I think the 1st round pick is the problem

Beasley for Allen actually makes some sense, though if I were Boston, I’d ask for Beas, filler, and a protected 1st. Wes would be filler in any deal he gets dealt, so he could be moved in an Allen deal, it just wouldn’t count for anything other than salary and, in fact, would be detrimental due to his getting $$$ for 2012-13. They’d much rather have Brad Miller, who has a team option for next year.

Barring a magical turnaround for Beasley, he expiring salary is his best attribute. That’s conceivably up to aound $8 million a team could clear off their next year books (a guy at $6.8 this year, nearly $8 next year could be dealt for Beasley).

Because Allen’s deal is expiring, though, there’s no reason for Boston to simply trade for an expiring contract. They would need a future asset. Conceivably, Beasley is worth a look, as long as they can’t get a sure thing (1st rounder).

From the Wolves point of view, why get Ray Allen for this one year? As much as we’d like to have him, it’s really not going to matter this year. While it isn’t out of the realm of possibilities we make the playoffs, it’s very unlikely, and the chance of doing much is remote. Still, everyone after OKC is beatable, so never say never.

We didn’t have time this year to do anything, but it’s going to be an awful lot of fun to see what Adelman/Kahn adds and how they do it.

You can't...dust...for vomit.

by twinstalker on Jan 26, 2012 11:50 AM CST reply actions  

Oh, OKC and Denver

I don’t think Denver is beatable (by the Wolves if everything else happened to somehow fall the right way).

You can't...dust...for vomit.

by twinstalker on Jan 26, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Point taken

I think I am over valuing Beasley based on his potential. The C’s adding a 1st to this package is too high a price. The rest of the deal (maybe with a few minor filler player tweaks), is still a trade that could potentially help both teams in the immediate future

by Accension13 on Jan 26, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Next year's salaries

Wolves are committed to $48 million with

Keep: Love, Rubio, Williams, Darko, Barea, Pek, Wes, Luke, Wayne, Lee

Let go: Beasley, Randoph, Webster, Miller, Tolliver

That should give the Wolves $10-$12 million to work with, along with perhaps finding better fits than the salaries they’re committed to (e.g. trading Luke). They can maybe re-sign a guy like Tolliver, though I think he’ll get at least $3-4million. Clearly, when you look at this on Hoopshype you quickly recognize that we’re playing okay right now with the salaries we’re committed to next year.

Right now it seems we would be better off replacing Wes with anything that doesn’t hurt (and some things that do). But there is room for a $10 mil per year free agent, as well as a MLE, to go along with improving players (Love, Rubio, Williams, Lee, Pek) and a player who hasn’t even helped yet (Barea) and maybe a helpful re-signing (Tolliver). The improvement could be SUBSTANTIAL.

As for Wes, one key is to get anything you can for him, as opposed to letting him go (and having his salary space absorbed by current players down the line). I don’t know what that would be. Maybe an older player signed to someone’s MLE with multiple years left. We give up Wes’ expring next year for that guy that a rebuilding team had mistakenly signed when they thought they weren’t that far away.

You can't...dust...for vomit.

by twinstalker on Jan 26, 2012 12:21 PM CST reply actions  

Martell Webster

could always come back and just KILL IT. In which case you change your keep/let go lists. Maybe that’s the scenario when you cut bait on Wes Johnson once and for all.

by dontbesomean youngfella on Jan 26, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Which according to wp48 means he provides 3/4 of average NBA production at his position

So killing it might give us an average 36 minutes which is pretty good. Win shares tells a similar story. I think that Webster is the least of our worries but we need another wing badly. Offensively it’s ok to play Ridnour or Barea at the 2 but defensively that just gets us killed.

by zebano on Jan 26, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

"killing it" relatively speaking, of course

A guy with career positive ws/48 and being an 11-15 pp/36 while not being a featured player. I’ll take that along with Love/Rubio.

by dontbesomean youngfella on Jan 26, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

careeer ws48> .1 not just positive

.124 and .156 his first two years … .this year a .285 I’d call that killing it.

by zebano on Jan 27, 2012 8:37 AM CST up reply actions  

gah wrong thread.... damn damn damn

Was just talking about Harden killing it.

by zebano on Jan 27, 2012 8:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Where does this Martell hate keep coming from?

He’s been great when we’ve actually had him on the floor, and he did nothing but good stuff for Portland.

His only problem has been his injuries but otherwise I’m totally psyched to see him back in uniform.

Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!

by TMiss on Jan 26, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think it's hate

it’s just that based on career averages we can really only expect Martell to be about average. Maybe he gets a bump from playing with Rubio or for a better coach, but there’s also a chance that his back will limit what he can do. I look forward to Webster’s return because it represents a huge upgrade over what we currently have at the wing.

by TenderWolf on Jan 27, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Beasley Haters

He looks good tonight! Do u still think this is an unreasonable deal?

by Accension13 on Jan 30, 2012 9:22 PM CST reply actions  

Yes

Why would Boston use a trading chip to get two expiring contracts? Danny Ainge is looking for young players with future.

by GritNGrind on Jan 30, 2012 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Folks...

We have Martell Webster…

I don’t think we’re desperate to make a single move right now.

by Child soldier Frank Jaeger on Jan 31, 2012 9:29 PM CST reply actions  

You're right having a decent but ultimately below average wing and a highly inconsistent no defense scoring wing

is certainly enough to get to the playoffs.

Now if you want to make the argument that we don’t need to trade for a marginal wing like Courtney Lee because we have Webster you may have a point but to avoid trading for a good player because you have an almost average one… I must disagree.

by zebano on Feb 1, 2012 8:21 AM CST up reply actions  

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