Wingin' It
by Oceanary on Jan 5, 2012 8:01 PM CST
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Let me throw some data at you. 49/119, 41%. 17 free throws. 13 assists, 27 turnovers.
Those are the combined numbers of your starting wing tandem. Michael Beasley and Wes Johnson combined. By himself, Kevin Love has made more 2s, more 3s, more free throws, and collected more rebounds. Beasley has 81 total points. Love has 90.....total rebounds. Love also has 53 free throw attempts. Beasley has 17. Wes doesn't have a single one. In fact, Love has more made free throws than Wes has shot attempts.
The wing situation isn't quite as dire as it appears right now. For one, Martell Webster and Malcolm Lee are both out. Webster in particular should be able to be at least an average-production wing player next to Rubio, and Lee has that potential. Second, JJ Barea is out as well. If recent history has taught us anything, it's that the two point guard set can work in the NBA. Kahn just got once of the specific point guards wrong. The Pups can also throw Anthony Tolliver in at small forward if need be (I cannot stress enough how invaluable an Anthony Tolliver is. The guy just plays winning basketball)
All that said, this squad is still in desperate need of quality wing players. The fortunate part is...despite appearances....they aren't hard to find. Ok, sure, if you're looking for a Kobe, they're hard to find. There aren't that many Kobes. But there's all kinds of Wesley Matthews and Marcus Thorntons and Arron Afflolos. It's just about knowing what to look for and when to look for it.
Marcus Thornton/Francisco Garcia - Sacramento Kings
As evidenced by their suspension of DeMarcus Cousins and subsequent firing of Paul Westphal, this is a team in chaos. Garcia is already on the trade block, and has been for some time. Thornton could be as well depending on how Jimmer Fredette and John Salmons work out. Garcia is older, more diverse, and a better defender. Thornton is a much better shooter.
Anthony Morrow - New Jersey Nets
He's started off the year ice cold, but for the balance of his career, the guy has been lights out from the floor (47% FG, 45% from three in his first three seasons). The shooting woes have cost him his starting spot...possibly permanently....which means New Jersey will pick up the phones and won't fight to hard to keep him.
Nicolas Batum - Portland Trailblazers
Ok, this does kind of seem like a pipe dream, but let's just keep sleeping and dream for a moment. I'm going to assume I don't really need to sell anybody on Batum. The guy is a literal jack-of-all-trades, a good defender (when motivated) and supreme athlete.
But while he's a valuable and productive player, he may also find himself the victim of economics. The Blazers already have over $21 million invested in Gerald Wallace, Wes Matthews, and Jamal Crawford. When Batum starts talking about the payday he deserves at the end of the year, will Portland be willing to add to their already farily maxed out rotation? It's definitely worth keeping an eye on.
Courtney Lee - Houston Rockets
I still have strong memories of Courtney Lee going straight at Kobe Bryant in the 2009 Finals. The guy is a tough player on both ends of the court, with good size and shooting touch. He's also in a battle for burn with Chase Budinger, Terrence Williams, Chandler Parsons, and Goran Dragic.
Earl Clark/JJ Redick - Orlando Magic
Redick will be hard to pry away, considering he's one of the few valuable potential-post-Dwight Howard pieces the team has, but might as well try. The guy's smart, versatile, and can really shoot. Earl Clark has yet to cash in on his tremendous potential, but has shown flashes and would be a very low risk. He was one of college's most complete players at Louisville, and was particularly strong at pick-and-roll play.
Bill Walker - New York Knicks
I was a big fan of Walker's at KState and I still am. There's a lot of Latrell Sprewell in him. Injuries have robbed him of some of his explosiveness, but he retains his ball IQ, versatile skillset, and take-no-prisoners attitude.
OJ Mayo - Memphis Grizzlies
Ok yes, he's got a bit of an attitude and lost his starting job to a blue collar guy. He's been steadily less productive season after season, not more. But he's undeniably talented, and available (one would assume) as a bargain price with no long term risk attached. A Rubio/Mayo backcourt would have serious potential, and putting Mayo next to a point guard who doesn't have Damon Stoudamire dillusions could very well help him recover his scoring touch.
Trevor Ariza/Marco Belinelli/Xavier Henry - New Orleans Hornets
The first one can do a lot of things, although you'll end up with a lot of Brewer Moments along the way (which, depending on your drinking habits, may or may not be a bad thing). The second and third can theoretically shoot. The tools are there. Might just be missing the opportunity. Belinelli and Henry are both getting crunched on playing time by Eric Gordon now.
Rudy Fernandez/Corey Brewer - Denver Nuggets
Yeah. I went there.
First of all, let me point out the sheer hilarity factor of a Rubio/Brewer backcourt. Quite possibly the most unorthodox, herky-jerky tandem in league history. That said, Corey in a pick-and-roll system that gets him basket cuts and alley oops could really be something. Worked well enough for Ronnie Brewer in Utah.
And Fernandez....well, aside from being one of Rubio's best friends, can handle the ball and shoot the three (ironic, considering he can barely shoot the 2) and is a sky-high athlete to boot. Granted, we'll have to get over the three point goggles....
Monta Ellis - Golden State Warriors
Alright, so this option is a lot more expensive than the others. And a lot riskier. And a lot more of a commitment. But Ellis is also the most proven and dynamic of the bunch: a true, go-to scorer who can shoot with unlimited range and is impossible to stay in front of off the dribble. If you're confident an undersized backcourt will work and can get past the $11-12 million price tag and somewhat frequent "loose cannon" decisions on the court, it's perfect.
Ray Allen - Boston Celtics
I've made it clear before, but I'm a big believer in the idea that Ray Allen is what makes Rajon Rondo work. I'm also a big believer in the positives of a true veteran on a young roster; not just a guy who's been in the league a long time, but a guy who's been a star in it and is willing to lead others to that same stardom. Ray Allen is an ageless wonder. Like Jason Kidd or Reggie Miller. He can shoot the living daylights out of the basketball and that's a skill that never changes. I realize that it'd cost $10 million and would likely be a one year rental. But hell, I can't think of a better option to put between Rubio and Love to hold the floor until Jeremy Lamb arrives.
Jeremy Lamb - UConn Huskies
The dude's averaging 19 points on 51% shooting (41% from three). He's 6'5" with 747 arms. He gets to the free throw line, rebounds and plays the passing lanes, and is fearless about taking the big shots. Get a draft pick. Gt Jeremy Lamb.
James Harden - Oklahoma City Thunder
.....shut up and let me dream.....
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In that photo
I believe Beasley scored 42 points in that game. And what is Wes Johnson doing.
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
Playing quarterback?
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Jan 5, 2012 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
not sure
but this photo would suggest his favorite football teams are the oilers and the packers.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Yeah, I got it
but tried to add another musical metaphor that was probably inappropriate.
He's Ricky Rubio. He’s not like anyone else.
I believe you call that
“taking it out in trade” or “getting his”
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 6, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
Louis Williams
He’s fallen to 5th in mpg in the logjam that is the Sixers’ guards/wings. Not big, and not a defender, but he can flat out score. Signed through next year at about $6 million per.
Otherwise, hmm. Is Marvin Williams still considered a salary dump? Why can’t our disappointing, former #2 overall picks trend this way?
by jianfu on Jan 5, 2012 8:18 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I like Lou Williams if he can be had on the cheap...underrated, even if his contract is a little bloated, albeit short.
by LosAngelesTWolf on Jan 5, 2012 8:29 PM CST up reply actions
he's getting 26mpg so I'm not sure how underrated he is.
but if we don’t mind small backcourts I would go there.
I'll take both Williamses
Then we can start a line-up of Love, Williams, Williams, Williams, Rubio.
That should be easy enough to remember.
Lob City? I prefer Skip-pass County.
Deron Williams/Jason Williams
Louis Williams/Mo Williams/ Elliot Williams
Marvin Williams/Reggie Williams/Latavious Williams
Derrick Williams/Jordan Williams/Shawne Williams
Shelden Williams/Sean Williams
by abcnerdd on Jan 5, 2012 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What's funny is NJ already has
Deron Williams, Shawne Williams, Shelden Williams, and Jordan Williams.
Too bad they traded away Terrence Williams or they could have rolled out an all-Williams lineup.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
It made me feel like
I was looking at a word that had an actual meaning and lost the meaning of it.
@JayKlinkhammer
jayklinkhammer.tumblr.com
I think JJ
is our mini-version of LW. What we need is an honest to pete wing of the standard size variety.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 5, 2012 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
They’d have a tiny backcourt.
But Louis Williams is much more potent than Barea. Williams’ career Ortg is 109 to Barea’s 105, despite the fact LW’s carrying a higher usage rate (24.7 to 21.6).
But that’s underselling Williams because he’s getting better. His career averages are suppressed as he came into the league too early. His recent Ortg’s are excellent: 116 in 2009/10, 111 in 2010/11, and 125 this year. (And he just turned 25 recently, and Philly’s certainly never overworked him). Again, that’s with pretty hefty usage rates (a Beasleyesque 27% or so the past couple of years) too. That’s packing power. JJ’s career high in Ortg is 106.
Williams is also carrying a career WS/48 of .113 (compared to Barea’s .073).
Or another way to look at it, let’s say the Wolves somehow convinced Philly to take Beasley for Williams (shorter contract, bigger player for them to move into their frontcourt rotation, #2 overall pick, realization Spencer Hawes’s pact with the devil has got to end soon, drugged cocktail….), and Louis Williams became the Wolves starter at the 2 and assumed Beasley’s role as de facto go-to guy. Beasley’s got a usage rate of 27.2 but a poor career Ortg of 101 (with a career high of 103 his rookie year; I won’t even say what it is this year). If Williams replicates or even ballparks what he’s done over the past few years (in which he’s been carrying a usage rate similar to Beasley’s) and takes over most of those possessions Beasley’s been wasting with clanked jumpshots and turnovers, we’re talking a major, positive change for the Wolves. (And Beasley isn’t close to Williams in the assist-turnover rates, to boot).
Don’t get me wrong, in a perfect world I’d love the Wolves to land 6’6" supremely talented wing. But this isn’t a perfect world, particuarly with the bait the Wolves might be working with (not to mention the unlikelihood that type of player will be made available in the first place). In the meantime, I think Williams is the type of player they could maybe hope for: Excellent production/promise; log-jammed on his current team; slightly bothersome contract whereby his current team would maybe listen to the Wolves collection of dispensible PF’s on short contracts; his current team sometimes does goofy things.
by jianfu on Jan 5, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I hear you
He’s off to a great start this year. But I don’t see them taking on Beasley, especially when they already have a superior version of Beasley in Thad Young (and a superior guard version of Beasley in Williams himself for that matter!).
Evan Turner continues to improve for that squad as a jack-of-all trades wing, similar to Iggy. I still think Iggy is someone that would be a realistic target for us. It’s just a matter of whether we’d want to take on his contract and whether we’d have to part with our own Williams to get him.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 6, 2012 7:23 AM CST up reply actions
I still think Philly needs frontcourt depth
give them their pick of Pek or AR + second round pick and pray they take it.
I’d be fine with upgrading that pick to one of the UTA or MEM ones. AR + a first rounder would probably be something they might consider. They really have a logjam there, and very little depth at the 4/5.
Yeah give me Jody Meeks and I'd be a very happy camper
Iggy is good too but I doubt they actually move him. I don’t really want Turner.
Good luck
getting someone like Louis Williams or Iggy by simply giving up one of our rarely used bigs, UNLESS Philly is solely concerned with unloading Iggy’s salary. Otherwise, Derrick Williams would need to be in the conversation. Teams aren’t just going to take a handful of mediocre picks and players in exchange for one consistently good player unless they are looking for cap relief.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 6, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry I didn't mean Iggy
That clearly won’t happen. Someone like Meeks or Williams might be get-able in the right situation. Both are much better than our players so I’m hoping the logjam or a pick of ours can make up the difference.
They may need frontcourt depth, but they just traded theirs (Marresse Speights) for some second-rounders.
Philadelphia’s roster is as out-of-whack as ours.
"Opinion ...a confession."
In order of unrealistic preferences for a 2/3 player
from your list, I’d go:
M Thorton( sure I could say Harden, but the necessary drugs to allow me to see that aren’t in vogue any more and really haven’t improved my memory issues since 1979!)
R Fernandez (how can Tres Ocho Amigos not be a marketing persons wet dream, to say nothing of spectacular spouses of the NBA?)
JJ Reddick ( how many Js are too many on a team with Micheal Beasley, really?)
OJ Mayo ( who better to beat the point spread?)
As for the Ellis, Allen,Ariza, Batum choices, if GT sees fit to throw his money around, the 99% are deeply disappointed but understand that they really don’t have a clue why any sane man would….
2012 the year of Twolves porcelain extraction?
I don't think I'd want a Marcus Thornton
The rest I like though
by TO12 on Jan 5, 2012 10:57 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I watched Corey play a little bit this year and
I am very okay with him in Denver.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
Corey and Wes would, however, make a bit of a Yin and Yang combination.
One of them is always forcing everything, and you can’t take your eyes off him. The other naturally forces nothing, and disappears from multiple games at a time.
(Some of Oceanary’s write-up threw me a little. For example:
Love also has 53 free throw attempts. Beasley has 17. Wes doesn’t have a single one. In fact, Love has more made free throws than Wes has shot attempts.
Well, yeah, if Wes hasn’t attempted any then Love would have made more than “zero.” Love does have more than twice as many FT makes as Beasley has attempts; is that what was intended here?
To compare Love to Wes Johnson, we might try: Johnson had 92 FTA for the season last year; Love has 53 FTA in 6 games this time around.)
"Opinion ...a confession."
I think its highlighting how much Wes sucks
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 6, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I didnt realize all of our wing players
also wax their legs
No chance of a Williams/Harden straight up swap, is there?
Even we “threw in” Wes, it seems like the Thunder have the team they wanna roll with…
No chance
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 5, 2012 8:31 PM CST up reply actions
so you're saying there's a chance?
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 6, 2012 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
Anthony Morrow must be readily available
given Marshon Brooks, the acquisition of Stevenson, et. al. That guy can shoot it, and would presumably get a lot of looks on this team. That’s a realistic target.
Other guys on your list are more or less available as you point out. Almost any of them would be welcome.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
I guess he'd be a step up
but he seems like Wes with a better shooting percentage. Still no free throws and a low FG% at the rim.
by Madison Dan on Jan 5, 2012 8:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Better shooting percentage being the key point
I’d love someone better-a star level guy. But getting someone who can do the job for which they are paid has some appeal.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 5, 2012 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
Rudy would be a great choice ...
… but if he was an option, he would be part of the team already. Only chance will be during the FA period this summer (and you’ll need to negotiate a buyout with Real Madrid)
The reason Rudy would be great with Rubio is pure chemistry. You’ve seen how good Rubio is with bad players that he has never played with before, imagine what would happen with a player that he knows everything about. Rudy would easily look just as good as he did in his rookie year, as he benefits immensely from a player he has chemistry with (he had it with Sergio, but none with Andre Miller) Rudy is elite at moving off-the-ball so would see tons of open looks, alley oops, pick and rolls, it would be very fun to watch.
In Spain Rudy was known as a slasher who later developed a 3 point shot. His problem is that he is kind of a volume scorer, so he needs to get in a rhythm, which isn’t ideal in the NBA. With the Wolves he would thrive as an energizer off the bench and crunch time player, hes excellent under pressure.
I've been constructing deals for Fernandez for the past 2 years
Clearly he’s been available a couple of different times, and yet it never happened.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 5, 2012 8:36 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah thats my point
If they wanted to get him, they would have gotten him. He was more than available.
by Xavier Garcia on Jan 5, 2012 8:38 PM CST up reply actions
This may sound a little silly...
but wasn’t there a lot of concern that he was a big-time malcontent ? Before we even signed Rubio and brought him over, that was arguably a bad time to bring one of his best friends—who was already trying to escape the NBA and/or greatly dissatisfied with his lot—to our 17-win team in the tundra.
Perhaps the timing was too volatile/wrong. Looks like that is no longer the case, right?
Well ...
… Rubio didn’t want to play in the cold and had a bad attitude because another PG was drafted and he couldn’t shoot.
Its one of those things, don’t believe everything you hear. Also, McMillan didn’t run the kind of system that players like Rudy thrive in. He was getting stuck in the 3pt line, no plays being run for him and he was subbed as soon as he made a mistake. If Rudy feels like hes trusted and given minutes, hes more than happy.
by Xavier Garcia on Jan 5, 2012 9:07 PM CST up reply actions
I wasn't trying to attack Fernandez
but rather to offer a counterpoint to the idea that because the Wolves didn’t want him before, they wouldn’t want him now.
Rudy has evolved, but still has to improve some things.
Now he is a good one on one defender, which was one of his biggest weaknesses, although every other game he still takes too much high risks trying to get a steal. This has been a great improvement this season.
His three point shooting percentage is now really really bad for a guy who was the best shooter among the Blazers, according to most of his teammates. He has to fix that quickly and get back to his rookie season numbers or close to that.
He´s making a lot of assists but also having many TOs. TOs in the NBA lead to easy baskets.
After fixing his shooting percentage, the second most important improvement he needs to make is his handles. He can´t attack the rim, slash and pass (using his great passing ability) or shoot, and create his own shot because he has bad handles. He has almost the whole package to be a PG but the most important one. He is actually Denver´s second SG and third PG. And Karl is giving him a lot of playing time trying to give him an opportunity to have a breakout year in Denver. We´ll see.
Sounds like he needs to improve a lot
Going by your post – his shooting has been bad, he turns it over a lot, and his ball handling has been bad. Don’t see why everyone is enamored with the guy. I saw him a lot with the Blazers and was never really impressed. He can’t break down defenses and he’s not a good defender. I know his international resume is good but in the NBA, I don’t see anything more than a streak shooter with some flair to his passes.
I'd like to see Courtney Lee on this team.
Liked him in college and wanted the Wolves to draft him. I think he’s been underrated and has a bad rap having been traded several times. But he could pay immediate dividends.
Morrow wouldn’t be bad and, as you said, I think he’s easily (and cheaply) gettable. I thought we should have taken a shot at Belinelli back when he was with the Warriors. And I’d have no problem with Garcia. Heck, I’d still try Chris Wallace and see if you could do a swap for Sam Young or Josh Selby.
These are probably the guys who the ‘Pups have the most realistic chance of obtaining. Most of the others are probably pipe dreams (but I’d still make the calls – what’s the harm, right?).
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
Funny, I never thought much of Lee
He’s one of the least interesting guys on this list to me. Inconsistent shooter, doesn’t really do much else.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 5, 2012 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I've always liked the guy.
I know he’s got flaws, but he’s leaps and bounds better than Wes and WEllington. Staying with the Rockets, wouldn’t mind asking about Chase Budinger, though I doubt Dork Elvis would give him up.
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
He is out with a strained calf right now.
Might make rockets interested in trading him sooner rather than later.
considering how well our doctors did with Martel
I’m hesitant to take on injured players. That said a calf is far less serious than a back so it’s probably ok. I wouldn’t be ecstatic with the acquisition but it would be nice to move to someone who provides more than a body out there .
Holes
Improving a team is hard. Those who are successful look like geniuses and those who spin their wheels wear dunce hats. The many and varied strategies are argued over and over here. The problem is that when you have a hole how do you fill it without widening a different hole. When someone suggests trading Luke Ridnour + X + X for Y I’m always thinking we need another good ball handler and not one less; plus getting rid of X and X means more minutes for X3 and X4; and so it goes. Through all the KG years I tried to figure out how to add just one more really good player. Alas with no draft choices and bad draft choices……The same thing goes with starters and subs, I definitely think Beas should come off the bench and work his way back, or not, by playing great defense and improving his shot selection or becoming a good finisher, but can you start Williams and make two fours work? In last nights game I thought Memphis looked like a pretty nice team even without Randolf. They’ve really improved their depth and look like a mature team that has played well together for sometime. I think their defense might give some of the flashier teams real problems in the postseason. The game was close but if the TWolves had played better it felt like Memphis could have stepped their game up too.
In Love and Rubio I think the Wolves have two assets that other teams will be hard pressed to match. I also have a hunch that Williams is going to be a monster. So yeah, I like most of the above options and am very intrigued by Xavier Garcia’s insight on Rudy/Ricky above, but I’m skeptical that trades will have a substantial impact on all the holes. I predicted 21 victories this year and after going 2and4 through 6 against tough competition, I’m afraid I was overly pessimistic (and hope I was,) but I still think this year with or without these suggested trades will be a step not a leap.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
man beasley needs to sit out a while if the stitches are affecting his shot
i hope thats why his % sucks
We are going to have trouble with that
considering our depth at SF right now is Beasley/Tolliver/Johnson and our depth at the 2 is Johnson/Ellington/Ridnour. That’s a lot of extra minutes to Jonson and Ellington… sadly I’m not all that sure it would be worse than Beas… the thing is you know that every 4 or 5 games Beas will give you one good one that you should win.
Amazing picture
My vote is to acquire a guy who is kind of a stop gap type (like Garcia) and then get a draft pick. This draft is loaded with great 2’s
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Tired of the draft
McCants, Wes Johnson, Wayne Ellington. Screw the draft, it’s a total crapshoot and our front office historically does worse than a dartboard methodology.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 5, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure you could randomly select 10 posters on CH that would do a better job than Wolves have done
Draft is the way to go for best case scenario. You might be bored with it. You might not like it, but it’s what the best teams do and it’s the best way to get the right kind of wing for this team.
I really don’t see what is so dang hard about the draft for these guys….Anyone that loves the NBA and watches college basketball with an NBA eye can pick out who’s going to be good.
It’s not like it’s hard to identify the players we’ve passed on, Curry, George, Monroe, Henderson, Granger, Noah (over Brewer, which was a travesty the second it happened).
When I look at who we selected I don’t know if I can see exactly what we saw in any of them but Randye Foye…who should have never been forced to play point
Brewer=0 offensive game to go along with very low IQ
McCants=6’2 shooting guard who was a chucker with a bad attitude….not the recipe for success in the NBA
Flynn=6’0 version of McCants
Wes Johnson=23 years old, which should almost never happen in todays NBA
The McCants thing still bugs me. If they had actually watched Granger there is no chance they would have taken McCants over him….just made 0 sense to anyone who watched the two players play.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I wish I felt as if we had a new regime that could better leverage picks
But we still have Kahn (new inept administration) and Babcock (old inept administrations both here and in Toronto).
Is had got to be cheaper to hire a college kid to run numbers and look at Synergy to cross check mock draft web sites, and would likely yield a much better result.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 5, 2012 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Then again we'd have Byombo on our team
Instead of DWill. I’ll stick with DWill thank you.
by Rodman99 on Jan 5, 2012 11:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah. Biyombo is about as raw as anyone in the NBA right now.
I’ve seen 10 or 15 minutes of his play this year. You can still see the defensive tools sure, but he has a lot to learn. I still think he’ll get it, but it may be 2 or 3 years down the road.
The culmination of Love, Rubio and Adelman has taken us from pile of rebuilding projects to win now mode in half a dozen regular season games. Williams is the much better fit.
Here's the thing with BB though
I’m no international scout. I think I’m very good with college players (not being a scout, but identifying who will turn into good pro’s) but It’s tougher for me with the international guys cause all I see are youtube clips.
Had Kahn drafted correctly, we probably would have increasingly gotten better so let’s say theoretically Kahn even drafts this:
2009: Rubio/Derozan/Holiday. While Curry is the better player than Derozan, I can buy the argument that Rubio and Curry might not be the best back court enough where you look in a different direction….but even a guy like Derozan is really starting to pan out and you have Jrue Holiday to do the JFly thing till Rubio comes. Probably a similarly bad 2009-2010 as Derozan and Holiday were very raw
2010: draft Paul George. Much in the same way I can understand why Kahn didn’t want Curry and Rubio I can understand why he didn’t want Cousins and why he wanted a “long athletic” wing to run and shoot with Rubio….it amazes me that he took Johnson over George is this is what he wanted in a player
So now you have a 2010-2011 lineup up Holiday/Derozan/George/Love/Darko….that’s better than worst team in the NBA. The likelihood we pick 4,5,6,7 in the 2011 NBA draft would have been very high and that would have put us in position to either draft Jonas Valanciunas or Bismack Biyombo to play center like the CHers wanted.
I’ll take Derrick Williams anyday. I love him, but I would rather have that team I just mentioned than this one we have now, Rubio/Derozan/George/Love/Biyombo would be the best team in the NBA one season.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Easy to say draft George now...
“it amazes me that he took Johnson over George”
Really?
The consensus was either Cousins or Wes Johnson at the #4 pick. If he picks George in 2010 he gets ripped to shreds. It amazes me how people look back and completely forget who was considered better at the time. He already got ripped for not drafting Cousins.
Did anyone at the time suggest drafting Paul George at the #4 spot? If so, I missed it. If you draft a non-consensus player, you better get it right (Russel Westbrook for example), or you’ll get a media and fan riot.
Lots of people here suggest a lot of things before the draft..
but if forced to choose one option, I doubt too many had Paul George as the choice. feral, I think, was one who hammered on trading down for George quite a bit more than others. Most were quite comfortable in the DMC Train to Hell, which is preferable to, but a close cousin of the Wesley Johnson Shitstorm we’ve come to know and hate.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
If you make the choice more generic,
I’m not as sure. It was most natural to debate Wes versus DMC, because trades are tough to guess about. But if we’d put a poll up with three options: Wes, DMC, trade the pick, I think Wes would have come in third. Maybe that’s my own bias coming through. It certainly would have been my third choice.
Fair point.
I just seem to recall that the debates were overwhelmingly regarding Cousins and whether his talent outweighed his potential problems.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Another common, but hardly universal theme was that Cousins was the choice because he had #4 pick value
Whereas Johnson was one of a large crop of so-so wing players: Johnson, Aminu, George, Crawford, Henry, Babbitt, Anderson, Hayward etc
A comp for Johnson would likely still be available (for a lower salary) at 16 and possibly still at 23, but nothing approximating what Cousins offered would be available that late. You possibly lose something in that drop, but it wasn’t dropping off a cliff because none of the prospects were that good. This was when you took into consideration Johnson’s age. Had he been a one and done 19 year old it would have been a much different story.
From a draft value standpoint (without any special inside information) the only way to defend the Johnson pick at the time was if you thought he’d be a stud player in his own right. Many talking heads pegged him as a possible fringe all-star. So far they have been wrong.
Picking George at #4 would have been the same mistake even if it worked out.
Water under the bridge at this point. I just hope he stays healthy and plays better.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Jan 6, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
the number one fixation, as I remember it
Was offering #4+Pieces for #2, aka Turner. Or 4+Big Al for 2+Brand, etc. But almost all the attention was on Turner, not Cousins, and certainly not George. I think, more than anything, 2010 was just an awful draft class. Wall will probably end up a top ten pg at some point, make a few all-star games. Turner, George, and Monroe should end up being rock solid starters, if not stars. Who the hell knows with Cousins? Maybe Favors eventually impresses? But all in all, I can’t kill Kahn for blowing the draft that year when there wasn’t a can’t miss guy available once Wall went off the board.
The draft class is looking subpar
But I don’t think that means we can’t be exasperated with Kahn’s decision-making process.
It would have been one thing if Kahn had traded down from 4 and selected one of the many assorted wing prospects that haven’t turned out very well (Wes, Henry, Aminu, etc.). If anything, I think the consensus here is that the draft can be a bit of a crap-shoot, and I don’t expect (although I do hope for) perfection from a GM in the draft.
However, Kahn’s decision to pick Wes at 4 exhibited a fundamental misunderstanding about the relative value of Wes, Cousins, and the assortment of other wings available in that draft. Rather than correctly identifying that Wes’ probability of panning out was similar, if not worse, as I would have argued, than any one of the 5-6 wings who went after Turner, Kahn made a passive decision based on a miscalculation that Wes stood a much better chance of succeeding than say a George, Anderson, Henry, etc.
So, why do we care if he probably would have ended up with a bad player anyway? Well, for one, he should have been actively trying to maximize the value of the #4 pick by seeking to trade with someone who appreciated the talent difference between Cousins and the rest of the pack and who didn’t have similar concerns about his attitude. (To Kahn’s credit, if attitude were his reason for passing on Cousins, he has been vindicated on that count.)
The other reason why I care about the the way Kahn handled that draft is because it suggested that he doesn’t seek to optimize the value of his assets in other aspects of managing the roster that we can’t see. We don’t have any idea what kind of trades, for instance, that Kahn has left on the table. His mishandling of the Wes pick suggests to me that there is, or at least was, a critical flaw in his evaluation of players that influences his performance in other aspects of the roster management that aren’t as transparent.
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 6, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Someone who saw the disparity in talent between Cousins and the rest of the pack and didn't have similar concerns about his attitude
I honestly wouldn’t presume such a team existed. Most other teams would’ve taken Cousins 4th given the alternatives, but I doubt anybody considered the character concerns overblown. I’m sure there were offers for the 4. I doubt they were offers we’d have been happy with at the time. Think Foye+Miller in reverse, though even that is probably overstating things. Bottom line, it was a bad draft class. Wes seemed like a safe pick at the time—reasonably high floor, low ceiling. I don’t think anyone saw him being this useless. I don’t like Wes the player one bit, but I’m fine with Wes the pick.
Shitstorm?
I believe that that implies too much activity. Brewer was something of a shitstorm. Johnson, more of a Shit Bog or something.
by Krotz the Wall on Jan 6, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
I wanted Cousins first, but
if we passed on him I wanted a trade down for George. And at the time I even said if we couldn’t work a deal, I’d just draft George at #4. I’d rather take the guy I really want a few spots high, than I guy I don;t like because of where he’s “supposed to go”.
Same thing this year. I wanted to trade down a few spots and grab Valanciunas, but I would’ve been 100% taking him at #2 if we couldn’t safely work out a deal.
I have been on Paul George since he was a freshman at Fresno
Unbelievable talent….I would have taken him at 4 had there been no sufficient trade-down option
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Johnson was consensus at #4
because the Wolves told everyone very early on that they wanted Johnson.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
I don't honestly think Williams for Harden is completely unrealistic
However for this to happen Williams needs to play more. I think if he continue to produce like he has at 25-30 mpg and continues to show he is an offensive stud at the 4….he’s kind of exactly what OKC has been “looking” for in a 4
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
"he’s kind of exactly what OKC has been "looking" for in a 4"
It strikes me that they’re MORE than happy with who they have at the 4 – and he doesn’t take touches from their scorers.
From everything I've read
It also appears like they are trying to find a 4 that has an offensive identity as their wings are getting a little crowded with guys who can score.
Not that they want to trade Harden for this 4, or are shopping him at all. But from what I can tell (granted the only sources I have are the ESPN’s Hoopshype’s of the world that are as watered down as it gets) it is their goal to add a scoring post player
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
If their wings are crowded with guys who can score
Why do they also need a 4 who can score? You don’t need to have a dynamic offensive player at all 5 positions at a time.
by SSOL (thats what she said) on Jan 6, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
It's divying up where the points come from
There posts right now just end up clogging the lane for Westbrook and Durant and don’t have a realistic offensive game to clear the lane.
Williams (or another 4 like that) would significantly help open up the dirving lanes for Westbrook/Durant
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Dude....stop.
Ibaka might be their fourth most valuable player. They’re not gonna do anything to take him away from the four.
Just like they’re not gonna do anything to take Harden from the two.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 6, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
More realistic than Williams for Harden
is Harden making this year’s All-Star Team.
Since he’s 22 and becoming one of the league’s best at his position, I doubt he’ll be traded away from a title contender for a rookie.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
by Andy G on Jan 6, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Dollar for dollar
It’s tough to come up with a SG I’d rather have right now. I agree. Short of the fit hitting the shan with Kevin Love’s status, the Wolves have no shot.
Agree, he's a great value right now.
Westbrook seems to be struggling to adjust to now being possibly the third-best option, at least in half-court sets.
If I were Oklahoma City, I’d be offering Westbrook and Perkins to Orlando for Dwight Howard.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
That is the best offer for Dwight I've yet seen
interesting.
I was thinking
the exact same thing this morning. If I was OKC I’d do it even w/o the guarantee of keeping Dwight. They could win a ’ship this season.
Me too.
And if Dwight leaves, they’ve still got Harden, Durant, Ibaka, and cap space. If Dwight stays, that’s got 90’s Bulls/00’s Lakers potential.
Orlando comes away with a nice team that can compete in the East, particularly as Ryan Anderson is improving.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
It's a bit of a gamble
But seriously, how could Dwight leave that team? They would be insane with Dwight’s defense. I honestly don’t think they’d even miss Westbrook much, just let Harden handle the ball more. Plus, Eric Maynor isn’t bad.
Try going to the rim against Ibaka and Dwight. Oh, man.
I don’t think Orlando turns that deal down, it’s better than something built around Bynum.
wow, what a team
if that happened I want the Wolves to trade them Rubio for Maynor just to guarantee that OKC beats the Heat
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
I was thinking Rondo
But Howard would work, too. Yikes.
Unfortunately for them, Westbrook’s playing piss-poor so far this year. He should rebound, of course.
Hell yeah
I would love OKC if they did that. Get rid of the two guys I don’t like and start playing freaking Harden
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
and perkins gets to give Big Baby a hug
because he looks like he needs it.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 6, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
In terms of watching exciting basketball
I like this idea. In terms of hoping the Wolves can ever compete in the Western Conference, I do not like this idea.
That would be a scary team. The only way to stop them would be for them to play Jonny Flynn at PG.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 6, 2012 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
A Finals that pitted Harden-Durant-Howard versus Wade-James-Bosh would have a 1980’s Celtics-Lakers sort of feel to it, in terms of two Goliaths going head to head with different styles.
But the Wolves would be much like they were when Kobe and Shaq ruled the West: Shit Out of Luck.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Don't trade D-Will
The highest draft pick the Timberwolves have ever gotten has played 5 games and looked semi-studly and y’all would seriously trade that potential for a freakin Arron Affolo or some other Scrubbly McScrubber? We are not in ‘win now’ mode for a year or two at least. Our GMs have to live with these decisions and cannot just hide away on an internet forum later like all of you folk 2 yrs back screamin OJ Mayo for Love WTFery (I know that was you, cause it was me too). Trade Beasley. Trade Wes. Trade any person whom does not fluently speak Spanish or have a blood line to the Beach Boys. Not a #2 draft pick 5 games into his career.
by Dr_Defecate on Jan 5, 2012 9:53 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
For as silly as I think it is for those to say "We have to trade DWill now"
It’s equally silly to say that they should never consider doing it simply because he’s the no.2 pick
If you can get no.2 pick value at a wing position (like Eric Gordon or James Harden) you have to do it
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Harden and Gordon are not #2 value
- or #6 value on a good day, or #4 if we account for Harden’s beard.
We also need a 3, and DWill is arguably the best prospect at that position. Obviously he’s more of a 4 right now, but if anyone can tween his way to glory, it’s DWill.
Get a 2 through the draft or by trading anyone except DWill, Love or Rubio.
Disagree strongly
#1s can bust, #2s can bust, anyone can bust or just turn out to be ordinary. Harden and Gordon are exceptionally good and young. Take a look at last years guards
Seriously
Harden on this team along with Rubio and Love is literally a dream scenario.
Harden
Is absolutely positively worthy of a #2 draft pick. You’re crazy to think he’s not. He went #3 when everyone and his/her grandmother knew Thabeet was garbage (except for the Grizz). Harden, playing behind 2 ball dominant players in Durant and Westbrook, is proving his worth. He looks like a freaking stud.
And entirely unavailable
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 6, 2012 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Undoubtedly unavailable.
And I’m well aware of that. I was merely responding to the poster above that stated he was not worthy of giving up the #2 pick (Williams), which, I think is freaking insane.
No doubt
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 6, 2012 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
Oceanary, unfortunately Kahn's never listened to a word you said
If he had, how much different would this team be? So I doubt he will start now. But keep dreaming. It gives us hope.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Good Post O.
A lot of these guys are interesting options.
I would be interested as well to see what the D league has to offer. It is a relatively easy recipe to follow: 3 pt shooter who plays tough D and makes smart decisions.
Mathews, Morrow came from the league fitting most of that bill. There has to be more. The Wolves don’t really need a shot creator with Rubio running the point, and Love working the Pick and Pop/Roll with Ridnour. They just need a guy who can hit the open looks and make the right cuts.
Tolliver came from the D League too IIRC
I would love to see the wolves give the DLeage a shot. Give Wes/Beasley 1 more week to play decent team ball, if they can’t call someone up on a 2 week contract. If they work out great, if not do it again. We do pay a scouting department don’t we?
How come we so rarely see guys come up from the D-League? It seems like the other pro sports have farm systems, minor leagues, or (in the NFL) a Canadian counterpart that at least one or two players a year are drawn from. But in the NBA, if you didn’t stand out in college and get drafted, you’re pretty much done. Am I missing something here?
A few teams do it
but not MN. I’ve never understood why the NBA doesn’t have an actual minor league system so I can’t speak to that.
A CBA thing, in part.
Long story.
But it is partly attitude, too. If I ran the world, teams would do what Memphis did with the rookie Thabeet – let him get time in the D-League when they can’t earn time up with the big club – at a minimum. Running a franchise, I’d consider having any rookie, by default, start in “the minors” and earn time.
Not to go off on Kahn, but one of the more exasperating qualities the Wolves have had under his tutelage is the lack of willingness to actively look for D-League talent. Kahn was a D-League owner, involved with multiple franchises. Very early on I remember Stop-n-Pop saying Wolves staffers were surprised at how little he knew the talent down there. You’d at least expect him to have a positive attitude, though, toward calling up talent.
(The Grizzlies were kind of an object lesson in willingness to think about players unconventionally, the other day. We saw them playing Josh Davis, right? Journeyman guy, played overseas a lot and for lots of teams along the way. They also really made their big step, Zach Randolph’s resuscitated reputation notwithstanding, partly when they decided to play Tony Allen ahead of guys like Mayo and Henry. Allen’s an elite perimeter defender. They signed him for a little over $3 million a year, and he’s been a big part of their winning.
I’d love to see the Wolves air out their ideas about talent. Adelman is definitely willing to go with a Chuck Hayes when he thinks it’s best, and I’m waiting for that shoe to drop here.)
"Opinion ...a confession."
by feral on Jan 6, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd like to give Lee a chance first
I wonder if they are going to hold their powder until Lee/JJ/Webster are all healthy and then see if they can manufacture a decent wing rotation with those guys in the mix. If not, then yeah, either a big trade for someone or dip into the D-league reservoir.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 6, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Do you know when the trade deadline is this year?
Because I think lee is out for 6 weeks.
Blake Ahearn?
I check the transactions links several times a day hoping to see somthing about the team acquiring a consistent 2/shooter. I have no basis for this, but I strongly sense that the team plans to stay with their present roster, and that the returns of Webster, Lee, and Barea will provide the consistency they currently lack. However, I too was curious about D League pickups so I took a look at the current scoring leaders to see if there was anybody there who might be a decent pickup. http://www.nba.com/dleague/statistics/player/Scoring.jsp. Based on the shooting percentages listed, it appears that there are several D Leaguers capable of hitting open looks. I do remember seeing Ahearn’s NBADL team on TV a few times last year and he could certainly handle the ball and shoot in those games. I realize that these guys all have some shortcomings and I really don’t know what Ahearn’s are (in the eyes of NBA scouts). I also don’t know how much PT a D Leaguer would get with the Wolves right now (I think that the coaches are giving WE and WJ opportunities to prove they belong). So I don’t think that it would make a whole lot of sense to pick up a D Leaguer unless you planned to give him 12-15 minutes a game – and I just don’t know that those are available. But if all the team is looking for is a 2 who can handle the ball when necessary and hit open jumpers, it looks like there might be several players in the D League capable of providing this.
We had him on our summer league team a while back
Not a bad player but not really NBA rotation quality
by Wim (Belgium) on Jan 6, 2012 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Anthony Tolliver just plays winning basketball...
…except when he throws it away when the team is down 2 with under a minute left.
Agreed
Tolliver is a great guy and a good, hard-working Swiss army knife of a player, but the love he gets on this board is more than his value. He makes his mistakes, too. And some of them DO become as costly as any a Beasley or Ridnour or anyone else makes.
by ogishkemuncie on Jan 5, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
watch the game
This piling on tolli for one bad pass is f-king ridiculous. Watch who rotates effectively on D, watch who always has his hand in a passing lane or in the face of the shooter… There’s a reason he’s seen increased play under Adleman, he’s a fantastic player to have on your team. A usually-under-control dead eye shooter who defends the opponent’s best player is welcome here always.
by bustaone on Jan 5, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Dead-eye? Defends the best player? Wha??
by forget on Jan 5, 2012 11:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He's guarded Bron, Dirk, and Gay in the clutch so far
Dead-eye’s a stretch, but he’s not a slouch either.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 6, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
You're Not Wrong
But for a guy with a 8.30 PER this year, he gets a lot of love on this board.
This.
That was by no means the worst turnover the Wolves committed that game.
He had slammed the floor on his back, hard, earlier in the quarter.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 6, 2012 7:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Lol exactly!
I do not understand how everyone here has the steamies for tolliver. He isn’t very good, he chucks up a million 3’s! And he gets dunked on a lot haha
by forget on Jan 5, 2012 11:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He's a good role player
being asked to do a little bit more than he should here. I think once Martell comes back we’ll see a little less (read: the right amount) of Tolliver.
As for the pass, it was a bad decision to not shoot it when he had it, then he got himself into a bad spot and made another bad decision. But more often than not Tolliver gives you solid D and hustles harder than just about everybody else and wont play outside of himself. I have no problem with the love.
You crazy car, I don't know whether to eat you or kiss you
by John Truckasauras on Jan 6, 2012 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
"He's a good role player being asked to do a little bit more than he should here."
this is exactly right. He’s ok, but he should only be getting around 10 mins a game. He hustles, he gives it his all, but he makes mistakes, and plays reckless at times.
Just some stats and a video
So far this season…
Tolliver has attempted 14 3-pointers and has connected on five (38%).
Ridnour has attempted 18 3-pointers and connected on seven (39%).
Love has attempted 31 3-pointers and made 13 (42%).
Johnson has attempted 19 3-pointers and has made seven (37%).
Ellington is 1 for 7 so far this season (14%).
and Rubio is 6 for 10 on the season.
Now, how does Tolliver, with 14 attempts (typically from the corner after Rubio feeds him as the shot clock is winding down) on the season, warrant the title of a 3-ball chucker? It seems to me that you probably just watched the last game and are pissed because he made a couple bad plays late. He is guilty of that for sure, and why D-Will was not put in after AT took that nasty fall earlier in the game, I don’t know. Typically, Tolliver has been solid in crunch time.
I like Tolliver because he works hard and plays defense. Why do you think Adelman plays him if he is so terrible and has such a low PER? Probably because the guy knows how to play some help-side and can make plays like this on opening night:
by unidos_corremos on Jan 6, 2012 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
side note
He’s a better 3-point shooter than any of our shooting guards at this point. If Adelman didn’t like him shooting the 3 ball I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t be seeing any court time.
by unidos_corremos on Jan 6, 2012 1:36 AM CST up reply actions
i was there for that block and dunk!
that was pretty sick! but of course, one spectacular play does not mean he is “good”.
he’s shooting 37% overall so far this season. it says on espn that he’s made 36% of his 3’s. he’s had one good game shooting the ball so far this season. a “3-ball chucker” might have been a bit of an exaggeration, but he is definitely struggling shooting the ball this season.
i think adelman outsmarts himself at times. play beasley and williams, with a dab of tolliver.
The fact that he "chucks 3s" is part of what makes him valuable (relatively on this team)
I wish more Wolves players realized that threes are better than 16-23 ft jumpers.
by WolvesFan03 on Jan 6, 2012 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
OJ
If we could deal Wes, Ellington and Tolliver for OJ and some scraps I’d be a happy camper. But I know it won’t happen.
Rubio, Rubio, wherefore art thou, Rubio?
by WhereforeArtThouRubio on Jan 5, 2012 11:14 PM CST reply actions
The ZERO
foul attempts in 6 games (in 132 minutes of play) is really the stat the basically guarantees that Wes will be a failure.
For that style to work, you basically have to be exemplary in some aspect of your game (defense, passing, 3 point shooting) that Wes hasn’t demonstrated.
Hey O or SnP...
..Someone should bump the fanshot of Hollinger’s latest article from ESPN Insider. Hell, any national writer that discusses the Wolves, especially in a positive way, should be highlighted …
Thanks.
Rec the fanshot
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
Did anyone catch Charles Barkley calling Kevin Love the greatest PF in the world right now?
It was during the Heat Hawks game earlier tonight…it was FANTASTIC
by LosAngelesTWolf on Jan 6, 2012 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
a couple nights later
ESPN’s Legler called him a top 10 player in the league so he’s getting (and has earned) respect.
I heard it
Chuck knows rebounding and Kevin Love is the best in the NBA at it.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
Francisco Garcia
Great post O,
Whilst we can dream about getting the next great young wing player, Harden, OJ, Eric Gordon. We need to be realistic. Kahn loves the guys we have and I don’t think he will be making a large trade, more likely to be a subtle one (if any). We have a young squad that needs some more leadership (especially on the defensive end).
Personally from the names listed, i think Garcia provides a great fit with his leadership and defense. I used to be a fan of Raja Bell for similar reason’s but he is so offensively limited (as shown this year) that I think age may have caught up with him (although he was never great offensively). One name not mentioned that I also think could be a decent fit is Dahntay Jones. I don’t think Garcia or Jones would cost us that much and in my opinion they are a more likely target for Kahn than the big names.
I think Courtney Lee is probably the best and most realistic option. He’ll probably come cheap and he can do a little bit of everything. 100% effort on D, shoot, and score off the dribble a bit. He was a Net for about a year and he made me a fan. Dahntay Jones is a guy who is really similar to him and would also be a good option.
Latest news on BATUM
He’s asking for a way out from Portland. “Batum’s agent to meet with Blazers: They have until Jan. 25 to sign an extension.”. Source: Rumor Central>ESPN.
He’s not a starter anymore and he’s playing like 20 minutes a game. He has seen closely the hell Rudy Fernández lived in Portland under coach Nate while being benched and playing garbage minutes. He will remember Frye having no minutes and getting a way out to “reborn” with the Suns as a starter, and so on. Batum is young and talented. He can knock great 3s, get to the rim and dunk. He was a top5 player in Euroleague under the lockout. He just needs new fresh air and a new system of running the ball on the floor. With the Wolves he would be the starter we need.
Wes Johnson now!
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
It's the Blazers
You have to offer them Michael Jordan for their benched players.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
Sounds interesting.
Would this also make us the most multinational team in the league?
Batum, Rubio, Barea, Darko, Pek.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Jan 6, 2012 8:03 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
David Kahn would appreciate this
I’ve often felt that one viable strategy for long-term success in the NBA would be to build around multiple prominent international players. Say, a Rubio, Biyombo and a Batum?
Favorable calls from the refs are not far behind.
Batum would be a fantastic get
Wanted him for years. Problem is this: Blazers are thin up front, relying heavily on 2 old players (Camby and Thomas) along with Aldridge, but who do the Wolves have who would be enough to pry Batum away? They have zero bad salaries to take on.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 6, 2012 8:03 AM CST up reply actions
Wow - that would be great
I’m sure lots of teams would want him though. And Wes is not going to get it done (obviously).
They need depth in the front court. Hmmmm
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 6, 2012 8:04 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Batum would blow the roof off on this team.
But you’re right, every team in the league would be interested, and the Wolves assets aren’t a good match. The Wolves’ lone interesting movable piece is Williams, and who knows the interest (on either side of the equation) there?
Portland also could maybe use PG, given Felton’s in his last contract year and there isn’t any depth after him. (And Portland’s not a cap-clearing team; they don’t figure to be in the mix for DWill or anything, or maybe even Felton.)
I suppose one offer the Wolves could maybe try without feeling too embarrassed about it would be Ridnour (pacific NW hero!) + the Mem/Uta picks. Ridnour’s actually a decent player, and draft picks always entice.
Who knows? Batum’s a weird player to speculate about, anyway (e.g., he’s excellent, but not a straw-that-stirs-the-drink type player). Given a possible trade demand in the mix? Eh, who knows?
Yep- Ridnour played college ball at Oregon U
Ridnour, AR and a pick for Batum?
People often say that Randolph should model his game on Camby- this would be the way to find out if it can happen.
I was going to make a joke that we’re opening the door here for a Blazers fan to come in and demand Rubio + picks for a 20-mpg backup SF who’s maybe submitted a trade demand. But then I thought, well, can’t blame them. Knowing our luck, Portland will hold onto him until they get Joakhim Noah from the Bulls or something. It’s just what they do.
Doubt it'd happen.
Batum doesn’t make any NBA money yet at $2.15 million this year. About the best we could do is Tolliver and the Jazz pick left over from the Jefferson trade and the 2013 Memphis pick we picked up in the Flynn for Miller trade.
Even at that I’m not certain Portland goes for it. We’d be giving up a productive front court player and two middling first rounders and still need to pay Batum next year.
Likewise we could in theory move Williams, but we’d likely have to take Babbitt back and still need to pay Batum next year.
Portland has Felton and Camby off the books next year freeing up $20 million from their cap commitments. They were already rumored to be moving Wallace to Orlando for 4 1st rounders from NJ in Jersey’s D12 fumblings. My guess is that this is just an agent trying to get a contract extension instead of going through a RFA everyone knows Portland will match. I don’t expect much movement on Portland’s roster this year and would guess the Wallace was more obtainable than Batum if something derails that team.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I think they are working on extending Wallace
I have no problem paying Batum on a matched sheet; one of the things it does is remove any pressure to make the QO to Beasley. Portland has a ton coming off, but will have to resign Felton and Wallace and look to deal with a situation where they have exactly Aldridge under contract for next season up front. Batum at this point is something of a luxury for them (and is being used that way).
Also, consider this year. It’s early, but they look good. The problem for them is that they have no depth up front at all, and two very old players in a condensed season. However, that’s also the problem for the Wolves; they don’t really have anyone to offer who could mitigate their frontcourt woes now and going forward. Williams has the most talent, but is probably too much like Aldridge, and is a rookie. AR would make McMillan nuts, and everyone else is…everyone else.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 6, 2012 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
QO to Beas
The possibility the Wolves would sign on to bringing Beasley back (at what I believe would be over $8 million) is rather worrisome at this point.
I live in fear of it
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 6, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
They probably want to keep Batum
However, that means that some of their other wings may be available. Since they’re thin up front, how about sending them either Randolph/Peckovic and Tolliver for Wesley Matthews? Matthews has three more years on his deal making roughly $6.5 million per, he’s only 25, and he shoots the three really well. I’d hate to lose Tolliver but our wing situation is BEYOND pathetic and Matthews is a good player.
I don't think they'd do it either
But, if they do want to keep Batum and sign him to an extension (as well as keeping Wallace) then they’ll have an awful lot of money tied up in their wings while not having enough playing time for everybody. Plus they’ll still have an aging and thin frontcourt. Again, I don’t think they’d do it but I’ve seen stranger things happen.
This- http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/218094/Batum_Blazers_To_Discuss_Contract_Extension
Sounds very different than that account.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
(I was going to say content yourself with Petteri Koponen, but aren't his rights in Dallas now?)
"Opinion ...a confession."
Batum is not playing because Gerald Wallace is better
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
I'd really push for Nick Young
Wizards are winless and his contract is up after the year
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He signed the QO for a reason.
He’ll be readily available for anyone wanting to overpay in free agency next year. Washington knows he’s not a long term answer.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
So trade Wes Johnson
Wash=gets a wing they can have for the future…even if he’s not great he might not look to bad in a Flip/Wall offense and it’s better than nothing.
Minn=gets a stop gap at SG and a look to see if they want to overpay to keep him.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No please
the very definition of a chucker, I would almost rather have Beasley. Courney Lee seems the most gettable and useful to us of all the choices. I like his defense and if he can find a way to maintain his 40% shooting from his 1st and 3rd years he would be a great value for us.
Eh. These kinda players tend to reallly play well when paired with a pass first pg
You gotta have a volume scorer, at least I believe so, and it might as well be a volume scorer instead of a volume shooter
Start Tolliver/Love/Webster/Rubio/Young….that’s a ball club
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I would hope so
but as we’ve seen from Beas some people just don’t know how to play off the ball very well and I think Young is one of those. He’s had Wall the last two years and he didn’t improve much
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngni01.html
Also Beas was a much better player in Miami than he was here
So there’s some history that he can be worth putting on the floor which Young simply doesn’t have.
At draft time I wasn't convinced but
He put up almost 8 Ast / 36 minutes and sported a 36% assist rate so he’s not an elite distributor but he’s definitely a decent PG.
Where did people get the idea that Nick Young is anything but terrible?
You gotta have a volume scorer
This would be a reasonable statement if qualified by “relatively efficient”, which Nick Young isn’t. His TS% right now is an abysmal 49.7. He had a career high TS of 53.8% last season and was still a crappy player. He does not pass, he does not steal, he does not rebound, he will not help. He has had a WP48 in the negatives his entire career. Wins produced isn’t a perfect metric, but I feel very confident labeling anyone in the negative range, a crappy player.
by vjl110 on Jan 6, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not preaching him for the long-term soloution
he’s better than what we got
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
than Johnson?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Better to do nothing..
…than to do very bad things. And you’d give up an asset to get worse. young is crap.
(I cannot stress enough how invaluable an Anthony Tolliver is. The guy just plays winning basketball
Except when he passes up a jumper, drives base line and careless fires a pass toward the top of the key (vs MEM)
or
He splits his free throws during his two trips to the line deep in the 4th quarter of a nip and tuck game (vs MIA)
Read
The other posts before posting. Someone already made this point.
by Jordan Seiffert on Jan 6, 2012 8:15 AM CST up reply actions
Bill Walker usually gives up 2 offensive fouls a game on push offs.
But other than that he has energy and is able to score sometimes.
A void? I see no void!
Great Post
Batum, Ray Allen, JJ Redick are ultimate pie in the sky hopes, but who knows what next off season brings, all of these teams may be looking to dump. If only Ray Allen had a history with Adelman.
And I really think this is all from the list I would want (as much as i love Courtney Lee), we really really need some more Veterans on this team and I have zero doubt that there will be more wholesale changes on this team by this time next year minus Rubio/Love/Williams
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
(cont)
and does anyone else here feel like Martell Webster is just drooling to get back out on the court after he’s healthy?
He was excellent down the stretch last year, his shooting was marksmen level, and in this offense he will be a terror spotting up.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Jan 6, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
Kahn was on PA's show today
Said Martell will be back sometime this month. Really looking forward to seeing what he can do.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
If U could get
Morrow or Courtney Lee via a direct trade of Wes Johnson I think you do it. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone, get rid of Wes and get an upgrade at the 2. I think either of those players would start and be good enough this year to make a nice difference. That being said, on a quality playoff team a Morrow or a C Lee are crucial bench players. So even if you were to get either of them, I still think you target the 2 guard position in the future via draft (if we could somehow get a 1st round pick there are some nice ones to be had). The only 2 guard I trade Williams for is Eric Gordon, even though that wouldn’t be enough to get him IMO.
Morrow's shooting alone
makes him worth a roster spot for situational use even on a really good team.
Really the ideal trade
If we could get the Kings to give us a 2012 pick for taking on salary like Garcia and maybe another bad contract they have.
We have expiring deals to ship in Beasley/Randolph and a cheap quality pg in Ridnour.
If we could get Garcia/Salmons and Sac 2012 first rounder for the cap relief duo of Beasley/Randolph then Ridnour we’d be in business.
Slide Wes over to the 3 to just make sure it’s not cause he’s playing the 2. You’d have a lotto pick out of the deal as well
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
If you KNEW you could end up with either Lamb or Beal then I could live with it. The tough pill to swallow is expecting Wes to do any better at the 3. I don’t think it makes a difference frankly. Beas and Randolph are still young and show so much potential still. I don’t know….
Kings would get u a top 10 pick
Lamb will likely be top 7, Beal between 6-13
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
If we could trade our protected Utah pick and keep either Randolph or Beas that would be optimal. All this just goes to show how unfortunate we’ve been as far as what our needs have been and what has been available in the draft. Imagine Lamb 2 years older and available 2 years ago with our Wes J pick. Or even last year. It could be argued that Lamb would have been a better pick than Williams.
I don't love Lamb for us
I’ve pegged Beal as the ideal guy for us….which bodes well as he will probably be picked at a pick that is easier for us to acquire.
I would take Lamb if we got him, but I think the overall upside of Beal is a more well-rounded player (i.e. defensively, penetration) than Lamb.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I like them equally well. They are different kind of players but I like what both of them offer, A LOT (wipes drool off of chin)…..
Give me either and I'm elated
Lamb’s go-to scoring abilities and play in the passing lanes would be amazing on this team, though. I can’t help but think the Wolves are really hampered by lack of guys who can force turnovers. Having a virtuoso fastbreak point guard doesn’t help you much if you get few opportunities to run.
I also love Beal, but I think it goes Lamb – Beal – Rivers for me. In reality I would be happy with any of the 3.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
I would happily settle for Austin Rivers too
Any of those 3 are perfect fits for this team.
I have a hard time seeing a salary dump getting you a high enough pick for them, but I really want the team to work all angles to get a pick in this draft. Doesn’t really matter where as there are defensive bigs like Henson and Patric Young all over the place to go with the SGs.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
You heard it here first.
Had a dream last night where Rubio and I were splitting a Silver Butterknife Steak at Murray’s and he told me he’s actually 24. (dramatic da daa DAAAAAAAA!)
Trade scenarios
I hope you all lotion up when you’re grippin your stick as you input potential trades into the trade calculator or whatever. Last I heard, yall were internet commenters, not NBA gm’s. Go play one player stratego or something, i swear
Classy!
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 6, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
If by classy
You mean a senseless, trolling comment the absence of which would make CH a great place to read commentary, then I completely agree!
by SSOL (thats what she said) on Jan 6, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
I'd love to call it an atypical post
but it’s simply not. Dude does have a doctorate in textual shit talking, after all.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
At least Dr D. added "I swear" at the end of his post
it gives the whole taunt a southern belle flavor
I can also suggest, “Well, I do declare”
by nextmove on Jan 6, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Land sakes?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 6, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
"Bless your heart"
the universal southern phrase for the mentally challenged.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
I didn't think the % was necessary
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 6, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
What a post.
Wait, I’m sorry.
I meant to say What an Ass.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 6, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
didnt your mama
tell you to ignore people like me?
Anyone think Evans is available or are u even interested?
He’s having a pretty down year and the kings just drafted Ferdette and paid Thornton….Maybe instead of moving Cousins they choose to move Evans
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I just realized how much I value
the absence of texting abbreviations in the posts here. It took the presence of same to allow me to realize that.
Use your words. You’re a big boy now.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 6, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
Yow. It just got snarky in here.
This was good advice for all of us.
by Jeffrey Lebowski on Jan 6, 2012 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
Translation:
Jason is still a dick.
Very undude of you, Dude.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
Not my point
CJ made some good resolutions about overlooking typos and such. That’s all.
by Jeffrey Lebowski on Jan 6, 2012 6:23 PM CST up reply actions
Not really
I would assume it still takes a lot to pry away a former 20/5/5 guy from the Kings, more than I would be willing to give for him.
If he’s available at a bargain, then absolutely, but that doesn’t seem particularly realistic.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
While Wes and Beast have played poorly
I’d be interested to see if any starting wing tandem in the NBA is outrebonding Kevin Love. Seems silly to compare their rebounding production against the best NBA rebounder in twenty years.
And Kevin’s overall numbers are off the charts right now.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 6, 2012 10:57 AM CST reply actions
(Yeah, some of Oceanary's comparisons lack proportion for me.)
That said, a very decent rebounding percentage for a wing might be something like 13%. Gerald Wallace was among the league’s best boarding wings last year, and he was at 12.8%.
Michael Beasley was at a TRB% of 9.6 last year, and has a 10.5% this time around.
Wes Johnson was at 6.4% He’s at 5.4% so far this year.
Ricky Rubio, at PG, has a 7.6% total rebounding number so far this year. Barea’s at 7.0%. Wayne Ellington’s at 7.4%. The only Wolf rebounding a smaller share of missed shots than Wes, this young season, is Luke Ridnour.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Ugh
And he hasn’t even attempted a free throw yet. For a 6"7 athletic wing, I find the lack of rebounding and zero FTs to be incredibly pathetic. At least with Brewer there was a throw-caution-to-the-wind charm about him. He at least tried.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 6, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
Yin and Yang, like I always say about those two.
Corey Brewer you couldn’t take your eyes off. Wes Johnson is invisible. Each is charming, in his way.
"Opinion ...a confession."
It doesn't matter how athletic a guy is
If he has literally no idea how to translate that athleticism into useful production. Wes might look good for the 1 play out of 5 games where he gets an open dunk, but he’s stunningly uninvolved most games.
That was such a truly awful pick.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
you are watching the games
Why is wes not rebounding better? Where is he positionally on the court?
He is an athletic freak so its not ability. Does he rotate back on shots or pg penetrations? I guess the question is if he’s being asked to board on this team.
Or do you think it is just lack of aggressiveness? Is he just not going to the boards on the defensive end? Last question. When you have a rebounding vacuum cleaner like Kevin isn’t it logical that the wings would have lower than league wide averages?
If he plays 3 today I’ll be interested to see his non shooting production. And he needs to start getting to the line last week.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Jan 8, 2012 7:32 AM CST up reply actions
He pulled down a couple of nice defensive rebounds in the last game,
which made it kind of surprising that he only had 3 total when I looked at the box score.
The stats on Wes’ rebounding are kind of mixed. League-wide, he’s just a little below average for SGs. His total rebounding percentage is 5.9 percent. For all SGs averaging more than 20 mpg, the average is 6.1 percent. Both numbers were a little higher last year, with Wes still coming in a little below average. So by that measure, it doesn’t look like his rebounding is a problem, it’s just not a strength.
It’s a little more troubling that his rebounding percentage is lower than Rubio’s, Barea’s, and Ellington’s.
If he does switch to SF, his rebounding numbers will have to pick up quite a bit to be league average, as the average total rebounding percentage is 9.3 percent (compared to 6.1 percent for SGs). He ought to be in better position for boards, so that may not be a problem.
IF and I say IF
the players below are what you consider “can’t miss prospects”:
Jeremy Lamb
Bradley Beal
Harrison Barnes
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
then I think the best way to address our wing needs would be to make a deal for a first round lottery pick and be willing to give up something significant for it. Those players will probably go anywhere from picks 2 through 12 so we’d get one of them for sure. Who can we fleece for a pick? One possibility is Sacto, mentioned above. Who else would consider it?
MKG is can't-miss
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 6, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
When the overwhelming term used to describe a wing lotto project
is MOTOR I get worried.
It brings back memories of Corey Brewer.
But, I haven’t watched college ball since December 25, so I can’t really comment on Mr. Kidd-Gilchrist beyond Chad Ford tweets.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Got a 24-19 against Louisville
He’s not cant-miss though, that was wrong. But he’d be the one I want.
Though I don’t know why we bother talking about these lottery guys…
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 6, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
He is motor plus skill
Imagine Corey Brewer if he could actually dribble and was able to harnass that energy and unleash it when necessary instead of looking like he was fighting to contain at every turn.
MKG is going to be a fantastic player. Not a #1 guy superstar like LBJ, but one of those disrupting all-around guys you just love to have on your team like Wallace or Kirilenko.
BTW am I the only one who thinks Barnes is much more Luol Deng than star? Seems like one of those “safe picks” who will go 5 picks higher than he should because of his hype.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
Maybe I'm missing something...
but why would Sacto give up a lottery pick in this draft?
They wouldn't
Though getting out from Salmons’ deal is tempting. I wouldn’t do that trade from either side, probably. Sac is in a weird payroll space; they have room, but they also are paying guys like Garcia and Salmons more than you would really want to. I would take Garcia for Johnson, or something like that, but I’m not prepared to take on Salmons’ deal.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 6, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
How about Landry Fields
As a rookie he put up FG% .497, 3P% .393, REB 6.4 from the SG position. This year he is struggling a bit and all Knick fans can talk about is replacing him in the starting lineup with Shumpert.
With the Knicks struggling at the start and D’Antoni on the hot set, I wonder if they might sell low on Fields?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
He'll be a RFA this off season.
Knicks have a lot of money, but I imagine that’s where you’d make a play for him. Not sure they want to match a mid-level offer.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Ahh - good point
It just intrigues me because the Knicks are going to have trouble filling out their roster moving forward with so much money committed to their frontcourt and a harder cap coming. They are grasping at straws at PG with guys like Baron. Maybe one of the few teams that would trade quality for quantity (if quantity is cheap and under contract)?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 6, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
They are in a weird place.
They can’t trade STAT. His contract can’t be insured.
They overpaid for Chandler.
Melo didn’t take less to go there.
Fields is a RFA next year.
They don’t have a 2012 pick unless it’s top 5 (Houston gets it)
They don’t have a 2014 pick as it’s Denver’s now
Denver gets the right to swap 2016 picks.
Because of their “Expensive 3” they are really limited. Now with the Mid-Level rules changing and limited draft picks I’m not certain what they do.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Jan 6, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Forgot about the insurance thing with Amare
Thanks.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
I'd love to sign Fields
I think he’d be great, based on what he showed in the pre-Carmelo Knicks of last year. An efficient player, with good rebounding skills for a SG…sign me up, er rather sign him up please. He’s played worse this year, but I think he’d be worth a shot since he’s played so well at the NBA level for quite a while last year.
But who in the Wolves organization is going to make a move like that? Especially if they don’t think too highly of advanced stats? His WS/48 was .100 and his WP48 numbers were phenomenal for a rookie.
I think Landry showed
that he’s much better used on an unselfish team that moves the ball. I think we fit that description.
Ric Bucher with an unbelivable answer here. Insane.
Tyrone (Portland, OR)
Ric, love your stuff… do you think the Lakers can get either Cousins/Thornton for Pau or K-Love for Pau. We need something!
Ric Bucher (1:47 PM)
KLove for sure.
It was during rapid fire where he took a couple questions like this
I believe he was saying he would trade Pau for KLove for sure and not that it was something they could for sure get.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
That would make sense
Maybe don’t do the “rapid fire” thing then and try actually reading the questions.
SO...
They CAN’T get a head case and a volume shooter, but they can get a player performing above Pau, for 1/3 the money.
GOOD TO KNOW!
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
SG
I’m totally turned around on shooting guard.
Let’s go free agent in the summer if we can’t trade into the top 12 for Beal/Lamb.
Rudy.
Landry Fields.
Who else is out there?
I just don’t feel like our obviously damaged goods are going to get us much, unless we find the right desperate team.
And, I’m pretty sure that Kahn’s track record is that he sells on disappointing talent too late.
So, I’m going to try to refrain from spending too much time dreaming up scenarios that move Kahn-picked talent.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
The problem is
that there is no Wolves game until Sunday so I’ve got nothing else to do but dream up trades.
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