Pretty Simple
Your game wrap is just two steps:
1. Go read Wile E Coyote's piece on which players are getting what minutes (sorry bro. It's not letting me put it on the front page for some reason)
Then...
2. Go take a look at tonight's +/- numbers
If you play last year's starters, you get last year's results. Everybody say it with me.
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Toughness, we need some
I think we have 3 examples now of teams intimidating us with toughness (Mem, Cleveland, Toronto). And this includes Mr. Love.
This makes me wish we had acquired Chuck Hayes, he would have really helped in that regard.
RJ Adelman
The Wolves new lawyer statistician must be aware of these numbers. Maybe he is having trouble with the interpretation.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
Derrick Williams is one of the 4 best players on this team right now
and also one of the three best frontcourt players, if not one of the two best front court players.
I don’t really care what his limitations are at this early stage in his career he needs to be playing near 30 mpg every night.
He was +7 in a 10 point loss lol.
I’m pretty sure there was a 4 minute stretch in the 4th where he was the only person to score for us.
He basically does everything Beasley does…except better and more efficiently.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Didnt get to see the game
Does it look like he will be able to play the 3?
by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 10, 2012 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
Offensively he already is a 3
defensively is going to be an issue and many of his critics are right to point out that he is probably going to at least for now be a bit slow guarding the faster 3’s in the NBA
That said I think it’s important to remember that he is 20 years old. An NBA off-season will do him well, he does have a little fat he can cut out which will probably help a lot.
But ultimately if he does become the scorer it looks like he can…I would just focus on putting players around he Love and Rubio that will hide his defensive deficiencies, much like the Knicks getting Chandler to play Anthony and Stat together. Instead of trading him.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
It's fun to think how a player's career could branch out, especially from this rookie point.
Derrick Williams could try to shed pounds like Love, and see himself as a three. He could pack on muscle and become a monster four instead.
For someone who, to the eye, looks that little bit slow-limbed a lot of the time – who almost seems to “lumber” down the court – the kid is not appearing that one step slow for the NBA game. Last night he had some nice quick reads in the half-court when I was still watching, and rotated the ball well.
(Maybe we’d all think he was quicker afoot if his home-white shoes didn’t look so much like he’s wearing a pair of spats.)
"Opinion ...a confession."
Haha
You make excellent points all around.
He’s got such a quick first step and has some great perimeter skills, I think at least early in his career it would be a shame to add on some pounds….
He’s gonna drop some of that baby fat by just getting older and building more muscle….Kid’s got a great game and he’ll be fun to watch for years to come
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
What critics? Who is criticizing Williams?
I feel like the “really big Williams fans” on this site are trying to set up the “big Williams fans” and “Williams fans” for some big “I TOLD YA SO!” at some point.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
That's not criticism,
it’s strategy. If we could get a SG version of Williams (I don’t know who that would be), we ought to do it to balance the roster.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly.
Recognizing he’s probably our most attractive trade bait is a compliment, not a criticism. And even then, most people seem very hesitant to trade him.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
But we need a 3 as well
While I wouldnt hesitate to trade Williams (hes growing on me) we dont exactly have a viable option at the 3 and if he can play it (ive only seen glimpses of his ability to handle the 3) I doubt you could get equal value at the 2 spot considering how thin that position is. Also from what I little I saw of Lee I think he might be a solid player. He had good handles, size, athletsism, and defense. Didnt see his shot much but heres to optimism right.
by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 10, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Troubling point about the lack of 2's
Compounding the issue is it seems this might be somewhat of a golden age for the power forward: Seemingly everyone has an effectiive-enough option there, and there are a lot of 4’s (including the projected #1 overall pick) coming in the next draft class, according to DX.
I am cool trading Williams for a SG version of Williams
under 25
already good
upside
if we can get that player (Gordon/Harden) we do it any day of the week and I won’t argue with you
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I don't think critic is a bad word
Williams isn’t beyond criticism. Brother’s gotta work on his defense and learning how to drive etc.
I think you think I mean “Hater” which I don’t think that is where I’m going with it.
But plenty of people are pretty stuck on the “never be a three” bandwagon, and while they might eventually be right (I actually think he will be able to play 3 and offensively basically already can)..does that not qualify as a “criticism” of Williams?
I would say 95% of criticism of Williams are made by people that like him and are happy we took him but are constructing good overall basketball opinions…which there is nothing wrong with. And I even agree with most of the takes too.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
nice and succinct Oceanary..
the only thing I’ll add is the starting lineup we trotted out there today is even worse than last year because BEasy is much better a 3 than Wes. Wow….
oh.. and by the way.. winner for the strangest +/- of the game (as alluded to by someone else in the game thread)
goes to AT. 24 minutes, 0-3 FGs, 2-2 FTs, 1 rebound, 0 ass, 0 blk, 0 stl, 1 to, 6 pfs, 2 points – +/- +14
Shows what good play will do
AT and Williams with high +’s in a 10 point loss
funny….they should probably be starting w Love and playing a lot
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I think it shows that
one game plus minus is pretty worthless. Once again.
by dropstep on Jan 9, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah...but that's been the story all season
for those two in particular
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Love should have been sat the entire fourth quarter
there was no effort from him on D and he was so tiered he was passing up open 3s.
I hated how he tried to force the post ups when the game was tied 80-80
Especially after calling Beasley out for ball-stopping.
It was by far the worst game he’s played since 30/30, so it’s not something to get too worked up about. I’d imagine he’ll bounce back tonight….but it was a lousy game
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yes, the ball stopping following that Beasley criticism was striking
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 10, 2012 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe he wanted to give Beas
a taste of his own medicine
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
I don't think tonight will be a bounce back.
He played 36 minutes last night (Mon), 41 minutes Sunday and 41 Friday.
He looked exhausted yesterday and I can’t imagine playing again tonight will help.
Gibson and Noah are gonna be on him like a rainbow on an oil slick.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
hopefully he can hit some three-pointers
and crash the boards
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 10, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
You know what I mean though
I don’t think he’s gonna be a ball-stopper all of a sudden
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I don't think it's quite so bad
they looked tired, especially KLove. This was probably a due performance as we have around 5 people hurt right now
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Some of us stools
might not see this vortex the same way that you do…
2012 the year of Twolves porcelain extraction?
Love played and acted terribly tonight.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 9, 2012 9:09 PM CST reply actions
Agreed
He looked tired though
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Both he and Ala QB's are dreadful
LSU’s back up is not that bad. I don’t understand why he isn’t playing
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
From now on,
this is known as The Rubio Paradox.
by mg7505 on Jan 9, 2012 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
+1 lol
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
The Bama defense makes good QBs look incompetent. They're unreal.
But yeah, Jefferson is not good.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 9, 2012 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
definitely good....
…..but lsu’s o is stupid bad. i get that isu killed osu’s chances, but is this really the best?
I'm glad that I have yet to watch a second of a bowl game this year.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
by TimAllen on Jan 9, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm a fan of this opinion
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Until there is a playoffs or the Gophers play in a big bowl game, I won't be watching...
…in other words: until there is a playoffs.
Sometimes I think of football,
both college and pro, and bask in the glory of all the time and frustration I’ve saved by not watching any of it.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 9, 2012 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
how does the honeybadger not make any money?
i dont know the first thing about the kid but he has a name ive heard. that has to be worth money. the lsu tiger is dressed up as a honey badger. somehow, theyre still amateurs.
He's going to make a lot of it in about 18 months
he can’t go into the draft this year…but he is an insanely good defensive back and will be one in the pro’s too
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
It's hilarious how he's not even the best Dback on his own team.
Honey Badger makes big plays, but he’s a tad overrated.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 9, 2012 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
I actually disagree
in all there big games this year he has been the better player.
Alabama and Oregon in particular he was exceptionally brilliant.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
For sure
college football is criminal. No arguments here.
I’m just saying…the dude is going to not be short of money at any point in his life assuming he is even the least bit fiscally responsible
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Ordinarily, I watch the BCS championship game, but this game painfully lacks of credibility..
So Alabama wins.. now I’m supposed to call them the best team in the nation because they are 1-1 against LSU, didn’t play in their conference championship game, didn’t have the best record in conference, didn’t play as strong a strength of schedule as LSU, etc. What a joke.
By your logic, The BCS has more credibility than the NFL
Paraphrasing your words:
“So the Giants win.. now I’m supposed to call them the best team in the nation because they are 1-1 against a previously undefeated Patriots, didn’t get a first round bye, didn’t have the best record in conference, didn’t play as strong a strength of schedule as the Patriots, etc. What a joke.”
This is yet another example of the BCS getting it exactly right: The top two teams played in the championship.
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 10, 2012 1:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No.
BCS is a joke.
Jonny "Bag o' Chips" Flynn is gone, who's next?
Crystal Ball says Wes "The Ghost" Johnson
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 10, 2012 1:45 AM CST up reply actions
They almost need to come up with a special award for that Pats team
Single elimination tourneys are crazy and they were the best team in the league by a long shot.
That team always reminds me of the '98 Vikings
Crazy good offenses that hit a rut in a playoff game … of course the Pats had no one quite as stupid as Denny Green so…
ahh MN Sports… at least the Lynx know how to win.
Did the Pats hit a rut?
They had to play a team that matched up well against eir weakness twice in a month and it took an insane scramble and catch for them to lose. I will never get how the Super Bowl proves who is the best team. Ditto March Madness. Single elimination is just goofy.
Depends on what you mean by "better"
If the goal is to determine the best team in the nation, the BCS consistently gets it right, whereas the winner of the 65 team single elimination basketball tournament is often not the best team in the nation.
If the goal if to produce a fun tournament that fans are excited to watch and gamble on, at the expense of deciding the best team, then March madness is better.
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 10, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Consistently gets it right"
Seems like a pretty big stretch.
The only time the BCS might have gotten it wrong
is when the difference between #2 and #3 isn’t quite as obvious. But the solution is still the BCS formula. Voters pick the top 4 teams in the country rather than the top 2, and there are two playoff rounds rather than one.
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 10, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
BCS can mean a few different things
As an organization, it is truly hideous: A subsidized wealth generator for a small group of people who don’t actually play.
In terms of placing the two best teams in the country against one another, they seem to do a good job.
I think a tourney would be a disaster, mainly for adding additional gambling to the unpaid labor mess that the NCAA already takes advantage of.
Hopefully one of these NCAA lawsuits gets through and delivers us from college athletics unpaid minor league sports.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 10, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The whole notion of "two best teams"
in college football is really subjective. Teams play very different schedules. I might start to care about college football if they had an 8- or 16-team playoff. Then I might think that the set of “best” teams is actually getting a shot at winning something that matters.
As it is, I really don’t care about it at all. I might be a bandwagon fan, but my teams (Minn and MSU) don’t give me the chance to test that theory.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
In football,
I think single-elimination is as good as it gets. They can’t play enough games to play best of 3 or 5, so they either play a tournament or we use formulas and opinions to decide who plays in a title game. I think the tournament wins on both excitement and fairness grounds.
In basketball, it’s a more interesting debate to me. I like the NCAA tournament as it is, but I don’t think I’d want the NBA playoffs to follow suit.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
LSU-Alabama are the best two teams
I don’t think there is a different way that would somehow find a yet undiscovered better team.
I think the “best team in baseball” is more subjective. With the expanded number of teams in the playoffs, the winner is now the hottest team at the end of the season rather than the best team over the course of the season.
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 10, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
If they had a playoff rather than the BCS
it would still be “A subsidized wealth generator for a small group of people who don’t actually play.”
An 8 or 16 team playoff wouldn’t change that. However, it would greatly increase the chance of devastating injury to unpaid amateur athletes. If a person is against an 18 team NFL season, then I think for the same reason we should be against a drawn-out division 1 playoff.
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 10, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
And yet all other divisions of NCAA football have a playoff
without stories about the crippling rates of injuries at those levels.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
It's true that we don't hear about these injuries in the lower divisions
But until just recently we haven’t heard much about the crippling injuries to NFL players. It’s player advocates like Ditka who have raised the attention in the media
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 10, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Entrenched financial interests (bowls and BCS conferences)
are the reason we don’t have a division 1 playoff. That’s it. I think a playoff would give college football a bigger pie to split up, but people might get different size pieces than they’re used to. If they can get past that, we’ll see it. If they can’t, we’ll get more of the same BS we’ve been getting.
I mean really, am I supposed to give a crap that MSU won the Outback Bowl? I guess it helps conference rankings, which will help with next year’s subjective opinions about which teams are best, but that’s about it for me.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
I understand your point, I disagree about your characterization of people's intentions
Since you’re from Madison, I’ll use the Rose Bowl as an example. It’s more than just a financial interest. It has a 100 year history and is tied to other events with a solid tradition like the Rose parade. For the amateur athletes at Wisconsin, the chance to play in the Rose Bowl has meaning and value which goes beyond financial considerations. For those involved in the Rose festivities, it is much more than the game itself. Wisconsin winning a few Rose bowls is a much better experience for the amateur athletes and the Badger fans than losing a few 2nd round playoff games.
Of course there are too many bowls now. From a national perspective, who cares which 6-6 team wins the Weedwacker Bowl. But these low tier bowls are not a part of the BCS, and are not relevant to whether or not there is a college playoff.
I personally like the 2nd tier bowls. There have been some excellent Holiday, Cotton, and Outback bowls that have been great experiences for the amateur athlete and the fans.
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 10, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't entirely disagree,
but I think if you asked the Badgers whether they’d rather play in the Rose Bowl or enter into a tournament to win the national championship, they’d pick the latter.
(Sore point picking the Rose Bowl, by the way. The Badgers stole it from my Spartans last year. Had Ohio State forfeited their games in real time, the tie breaker would have gone to MSU. Wisconsin owes MSU a Rose Bowl, dammit!)
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Hank Hill
“Well, the Longhorns Badgers won’t go to the Rose bowl this year. But there is always the Fiesta bowl, the Cotton Bowl, or God forbid, the Pacific Life Holiday Bowl.”
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
One of the most public scams going
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
I think the Patriots beat the Giants 4 out of every 5 games.
The Superbowl happened to be that 1 out of 5 game.
In general, I think the NBA playoffs does the best job in major professional/college sports of determining the best team. However, sometimes it is still too close to call (Shaq’s lakers teams against Portland and Sacramento are two examples)
by ThisIsForSota on Jan 10, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Playoff overtime hockey
is about as good as sports gets. And I don’t even like hockey.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and yet you religiously watch the Timberwolves
… someone had to point this out
And he continues to struggle in late game situations
I’m not saying this means he isn’t top 15 in the NBA…but he currently is not the guy to close out games for us when we need tough baskets and the game is tied 80-80 and we can’t get a point.
Closer, create your own shot, cliches: yes….but whatever that skill is Love currently does not posses it. We needed a bucket badly and went to him a few times for forced post ups. This is not to say he can’t develop that (and he also looked tired as shit from playing 80 minutes in 48 hours) but he currently is not that player
Williams appears to potentially have that gene, he’s got to develop it a little more and maybe he ultimately never will be that guy…but it looks like there is a possibility that happens.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Rubio should be the closer
Too bad he’s exhausted from digging us out of a hole by the end of the game.
A Sean Rooks would look good next to KLove. Really any big athlete.
by fanslaststand on Jan 9, 2012 9:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sure
I did like Williams focus on getting to the lane in the fourth. He had one really bad attempt but the rest got us buckets or free throws I believe.
I was almost begging them to not go to Love by the 3rd time in the fourth though….give it too Rubio and if Love is open get him the ball….but that was some poor basketball late in the game.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
eye test
there are numbers for these assertions. i vavent re uped synergy yet, but the data is there.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2012 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What numbers you looking for?
Williams assertions?
He didn’t play perfect in the fourth either, and had especially one poor drive to the hoop. But he did show that “create/closer/whatever” ability with some of his moves and decisions. It was obvious he wasn’t complete sure if he had earned the right to do that yet….he hesitated on a wide open three and you could tell he didn’t know if he should shoot that shot.
I believe in time that he could be that guy.
Eye test yes.
;)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
and what's the assessment?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
OOooooooh. My bad
Misread you.
Thought you were waiting for the site to reload.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Speaking of Ricky Rubio...
I don’t know what “it” is, but I know Wes Johnson doesn’t have it. #goosegg
Looking for tickets to Wolves' 2011 NBA Preseason Champion ring ceremony, banner unfurling. Please contact
I'm blaming this loss and Cleve on Adleman
He should know by now not to start and play Wes, Darko and Beasley/Ellington together.
I realize that he has to play them because of depth, but good Lord they don’t have to play together. It’s way past the time where he needs to make a line up change and just ween those three in gingerly with 4 better players around them.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Is there a chance he's doing this on purpose?
The ol’ “new coach gives the prior year’s starters some games to prove to themselves how bad they are, then yanks them out of the starting line-up but doesn’t lose them entirely” gambit.
I'd never heard that theory before
Seems like a good guess. It’s also easy to forget that he probably knows far less about his players at this point than the average poster on this site.
Anyone remember the early history of Adelman in Portland?
We went over it while we were reviewing his history with Kahn. Kahn wrote columns about the Blazers back then.
Short version is that Adelman entered in interim coach with a locker room divided between former veteran starters and a new set of pretty good players (Jerome Kersey, for example) who probably deserved to start more. His successful approach to that situation basically involved playing the new guys, didn’t it?
One difference? The Wolves do not have those good up-and-coming wings on their roster now.
"Opinion ...a confession."
by feral on Jan 10, 2012 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If you realise they have no depth, how is he supposed to not play them together?
He’s a Hall of Fame coach, not Jesus Christ
simple
start:
Rubio/Wes/Williams/Tolliver/Love
3:00 sub Randoph/Barea for Wes/Williams (Rubio/Barea/Tolliver/Love/Randolph)
10:00 (2nd) sub Ridnour/Beasley/Williams for Rubio/Love/Tolliver (Ridnour/Barea/Williams/Beasley/Randolph)
7:00 (2nd) Love for Randolph
4:00 (2nd) Tolliver/Rubio for Bealsey/Ridnour (Rubio/Barea/Williams/Tolliver/Love)
repeat for 2nd half
only play Darko against legit 7 footers
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
obviously that isn't going to happen every night
as some players might play better or worse etc
but there is a general outline on how not to play Wes/Beasley/Darko together
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
see I understand that they are going to have to play
based on the fact that, especially w Wes and Darko they are just gonna have to fill time at the 2 and 5….just not together
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I almost hope we get blown out by Chicago tomorrow.
If we play awesome and just barely lose, that will be really frustrating.
Pretty simple is right
Too many minutes going to players not good enough to play. Not enough players who are good enough to play on the team.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
yep
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Not enough players who are good enough to play on the team.
That’s the problem. I don’t like who is getting minutes, but we don’t have other options.
There are ways to keep Wes Johnson off the floor.
Tolliver can defend 3’s, Barea is back, Ellington is less-bad than Wes, etc.
But Wes keeps on starting, and the starting lineup is pretty-consistently digging holes for the second unit to work its way out of.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
I mean, I guess...
But how do you come up with minutes? Barea maxes out at 17 tonight, 25 on a regular night? Tolly gets 25, Ellington can grab the rest of the SG minutes, but in the end you play subs as starters either way. Who rounds out the minutes at 3?
I’m not arguing for Wes, but in the end when people want a different rotation, there isn’t really much that can change. More or less minutes here and there… but it’s all minor.
I suspect the Barea minutes
are a residual result of his injury.
wes is playing against starters...
…bringing him off the bench might even his odds a LITTLE bit!
by davechisholm on Jan 10, 2012 8:14 AM CST up reply actions
Start Tolliver at 3, Barea at 2
Bring Williams and AR off the bench with Rubio. Use Beasley and Johnson in 5-10 minute per game roles to minimize their negative impact.
by SSOL (thats what she said) on Jan 10, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
And when Lee and Miller are healthy
Beas and Wes get relegated to deep-bench duties. Maybe they can mix the Gatorade.
by SSOL (thats what she said) on Jan 10, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
Tolliver can't "defend 3s"
He can defend the heavier, slower perimeter guys, but not anyone with any sort of quickness.
I mean, the guy is kind of slow for a power forward.
Didn't he defend LeBron in the 4th Quarter...
and do a halfway decent job?
Maybe I’m remembering that wrong. If that’s right though, I’d say he can defend any 3.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
That's what I remember.
If I had to pick anyone on our squad to defend LeBron, it would definitely be AT.
I think he has defended Durant too
On a few occasions.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Jan 10, 2012 10:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
We need
Webster to contribute average-quality mins ASAP
by whistle_this on Jan 10, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
The most amusing thing
about the Wizards blowout was reading about our amazing, superior shooters as compared to their squad over on Bullets Forever. Anyone who watches the Wolves regularly can recognize that’s simply untrue.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
by JMGrady on Jan 10, 2012 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
ESPN picked up that meme
when discussing weather Rubio or Wall was better. Rubio gets assists because he is surrounded by great shooters, while Wall has crap. to be fair, the guys at PTI did say that Rubio is better right now though.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 10, 2012 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
Toronto played well
13 TOs, made their FTs, and played hard nosed interior defense. It wasn’t just a matter of us playing like clowns and missing chippies. These guys were challenging everything on the interior.
As for Rubio, I continue to be impressed by his defense. The team as a whole continues to give a good effort on that end. I don’t think we’ve given up 50%+ shooting yet to a team, and have held most opponents to under 45%. Plus the days of our opponent raining wide open 3-pointers on us all night seem to be over.
by Rascal Flatts on Jan 9, 2012 9:22 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I might be the only one
who’s not pissed with Adelman right now. He’s developing the players whom we’re building around, while letting the expendables (does not include Love) be the starters so it doesn’t hurt their egos or cause too much friction in the locker room. Oddly, this gives us a good shot at winning. Rubio, DWill, Tolly and AR will play hard even off the bench. But Williams, Wes and Darko will die from a lack of confidence and/or quit on the team if they don’t start.
At the end of the day, Adelman gives us a good a chance to win, while prioritizing the development of the young guys. Wins and losses don’t matter because we have no 1st rounder anyway – does anyone REALLY care if New Orleans gets a lottery pick or not?
Light at the end of the tunnel: Rubio, Love and DWill continue to get better, and we may even string off some impressive win streaks late in the season.
by mg7505 on Jan 9, 2012 9:23 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Yep.
I think you’re the only one:)
by fanslaststand on Jan 9, 2012 9:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You are not alone.
New coach, two rookies who might be important for the team, there is no haste. They’ve only played eleven games together (counting pre-season), and Adelman has to try out the players (specially Beasley).
I don’t care about winning, I care about the development of Rubio and Williams. This team has a lack of certain pieces and the nursery full of main players. Give’em time.
Greeting from Spain.
I care about winning
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Eric, I wanted to ask you your thoughts on RA
Because I am annoyed with his starting lineups right now and I really think playing Wes/Darko/Beasley 20 mpg TOGETHER is really killing us in some of these games, Cleveland and Toronto in particular.
You’re big big big time win now…and I’m annoyed cause I believe if he was playing Rubio/Williams/Tolliver/Randolph the Wes/Darko/Beasley minutes we would have a few more wins as those are largely our most competitve players.
Are you annoyed? I’m Mr. potential and I’m annoyed that the take is “He is developing Williams/Rubio” but I’m like, Look they are two of our four best players and give us the best chance to win.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
for the record, I'm not saying he isn't a good coach
or doing a good job.
But I do think he is costing this team wins by allocating minutes the way he has been.
I’m sure there is a method to all of this and that will be apparent by Feb. but for now he is costing us wins I believe
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not that annoyed
I mean, the big problem for me has been asking Rubio to go 16 minutes at a time. That would be mitigated if he started and rested over over the quarter breaks like a normal starter, and then he could go the last 9 minutes of the game coming off a break. I think that would be better.
The injury to Barea really hurt; the less minutes for Johnson and Ellington the better. Obviously, the bad starts in recent games are traceable to running Johnson, Ellington (and Beasley before the injury) out there with Milicic. (One nice thing about Adelman is that he doesn’t seem compelled to keep a capital C Center out there all the time; one of the things that hurt them last year was that Milicic and Pekovic combined for over 35 minutes a game, whereas now you are just getting Darko’s 20).
I would change things at this point, it seems clear that this starting unit is too consistently digging holes. Now that Barea is back, starting 2 PGs doesn’t cause a situation where you risk having none available at certain junctures in the game, which is what I think he’s been trying to avoid; had they started Rubio and Ridnour while Barea was out, it would have been harder to keep a ballhandler on the floor at all times.
I would not be surprised to see a change Friday after they have a practice coming off the 3 in a row. Ultimately, the real fault lies with the roster (ie Kahn). When you don’t have enough good players to play the minutes, it means bad players have to play. That’s what’s going on.
Oh, on Williams. I’m OK with his PT. He’s shown some flashes, but is not at this point that great a player. Needs to learn where his offense can come from consistently and efficiently, and seems to have some defensive problems. I’m just as happy with Tolliver out there, though at this point, given the roster, Love, Tolliver, and Williams is probably as good as it gets for them in the frontcourt. That says more about the roster than anything else, though.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
From my view
and even PER wise
He is a top 4 player on this team right now (Williams)
I admit he has to work on some things….but he is right now one of our best offensive options and he is getting more comfortable driving with every game
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Which says just as much about the roster as it does Williams
EiM hits the key point about Rubio’s minutes: they’re marathons.
It doesn’t matter if he starts or not. What matters are total minutes and how they’re spread out.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 10, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
But he was the #2 pick in the draft
and even on better teams that win the lottery, it shouldn’t really come to a surprise that a top 2-3 pick is one of the better players on your roster right from the get-go
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I think you'd be better off (here and below)
thinking less about where the player was picked and more about who the player is. Thabeet was a #2 pick. Durant was #2 pick. None of it matters when projecting Williams.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Here is why I disagree with that take though
have there been #2 pick busts? Sure.
But you mention Thabeet and Darko is mentioned below…and I don’t remember a single person that said Darko and Thabeet were the 2nd best players in the respective drafts.
Michael Beasley/Evan Turner sure….but even with those guys they got drafted to pretty awful teams for their respective skill sets. (and with both players…Turner more so than Beasley it was highly debatable if they were the 2nd best player)
Williams was the #2 pick cause he was the 2nd best player in the draft. And that’s why it shouldn’t come to any surprise that he is effective.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
You're telling whatever story you want here.
Beasley versus Rose was a real debate. Don’t forget that Beasley was great in college, better than Williams. Williams was a somewhat late rising second pick in a not-very-good draft. Williams versus Irving was not discussed the way Oden versus Durant or Rose versus Beasley was. They weren’t regarded as franchise guys like Blake Griffin.
Williams is doing well. I like him. That’s really all we need to know.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Cool
He’s clearly not Thabeet/Darko though
He’s already not a flop…to trade him simply because he could flop…that conversation is done. He’s already a quality NBA player…
it’s fair to argue if he’ll ever be able to play 3 and if he will ever hit his ceiling as to reasons to trade him….but he’s already a quality producing pro
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I understand
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yep
Let it go, Indy. Let it go.
Random info:
Checking Synergy’s page for Love, I’s scoring 1.11 ppp in iso, 1.17 in pnr man, 1.08 on oreb, and 0.96 on spot ups. Most surprising are his defensive ranks:
0.85 overall with 0.5 in the post, good for 2nd in the league.
Williams is best on the spot-up, with 1.29 ppp. He’s only 4-9 in transition, and 4-14 when he’s the pick in the pick and roll.
Love has become a very good defensive player
and it’s very noticeable from the eye test…I’m happy stats back this up
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Over the last 3 games,
he’s averaged about 28 1/2 minutes, up from an average of under 18 prior to that. He’s been productive, so I would guess he’ll keep getting those minutes, even after Beasley comes back. At that level, I think he’s getting about the right amount of play.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Or this
Madison has the answers for you. (Except not about public transportation).
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Madison...
…also has this:
Beezow Doo-Doo Zopittybop-Bop-Bop, 30, Madison, was tentatively charged with carrying a concealed weapon, possession of drug paraphernalia, possession of marijuana and a probation violation after his arrest at about 3 p.m. in the 800 block of East Mifflin Street.
asdf
I know
I had to bail Beezow (aka Madison Dan) out of jail.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
I figured that if I picked
“Madison Beezow Doo-Doo Zopittybop-Bop-Bop” as my handle, everyone would know who I am. (I probably could have dropped the “Madison” qualifier, now that I think of it.) Now SnP goes and posts my picture. Great. Just great.
Had he been in Madison Dan's neighborhood, now that would have been a story
Neighborhood meetings would have exploded!
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, the Zopittybob-Bop-Bop's live just down the street
and I know they’re just crushed that Beezow Doo-Doo isn’t living up to the family name. He should have moved on to crystal meth by now.
They ever babysit?
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know why....
….but whenever I read that name, I think of a Rubio alley oop. Ball leaves his hand….BEEZOW DOO-DOO ZOPITTYBOP-BOP-BOP…dunk.
Maybe he's Beasley's supplier
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
But I like it
Next time there’s an alley-oop I’m posting ZOPITTYBOP-BOP-BOP in the game thread.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously
We must have more of “that guy” in Madison per capita than anywhere else in the world. We have a ton of that guy.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
By the way
The park he got arrested in is a block away from the K-3 school my son went to. Good times!
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
Pah. San Francisco,
where they give you directions according to the street people.
“Take a left at Jesus….”
"Opinion ...a confession."
I can't believe I missed this one
We used to live in Monterey and we’d head up there every weekend. Lots of those dudes up there.
Right, but Madison is much smaller
so on a per capita basis, we’re right there.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
More on the last 3 games
Williams’ FG% has actually gone in the tank over the last 3 games, down from 0.515 to 0.419. Despite that, his TS% has stayed pretty stable because his 3PT% has gone up (from 33% to 36%) and his FT% has gone way up (from 42% to 90%). He’s cut his turnovers from about 3 per 36 to about 1.3 per 36, so that’s good news (fewer charges, I’d guess).
I am a little worried about the 2PT FG%. He needs to make some adjustments around the basket (Rubio does, too). I think he’ll get there, but it’s something to watch. Overall, I think he looks good.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
He definitely has trouble finishing in traffic
although he’s a good athlete, he does not have the necessary explosion to throw it down in traffic. I’ve been impressed by the three-point shooting and learning to get to the FT line will help him.
oh, and don’t forget the pleasant surprise that he might, just might, be able to rebound at a reasonable level.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 10, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
Good point re: rebounding
After the three-point shooting, the rebounding has been very encouraging and welcomed. Maybe even more so.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
His above-the-rim/finishing exploits do seem much stronger when he’s off-the-ball in space and can gather himself, usually via a Rubio pass. He can handle the ball well for his size, but looks like he loses significant explosion when he’s on the dribble drive.
I too am encouraged that he seems to have decent skills in some key non-scoring areas, though. He also seems to be a key-or-three type scorer (e.g., anti-Beasley). He was also the one guy who seemed game to trying to end the miserable 4th quarter offense last night by drive attempts a couple times. Some of that might be due to fatigue out of everybody else, but at least he’s confident enough to try.
I like this post
I think it captures things correctly. I agree that for a 20 year old rookie, he’s been good. Better than I expected; his per-36s are fairly impressive. The reduction in TOs is good. He needs to figure out how to score close to the basket when there is traffic, and figure out where (if anywhere) in the mid-range his game is. Will be interesting to see where the 3pt% settles in.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
it's ridiculous to suggest that Williams has trouble finishing in traffic!
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 10, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
I was going to call you a nasty name for beating me to that point
but just decided to think it instead.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Williams and finishing
it appears he hasn’t grasped the concept of when to go hard to the hole and when to do a soft toucher.
He had one drive late against the Raps that he got the stuff sent back at him hardcore cause he tried to soft touch it, and in reality that would have been the perfect drive for him to power through.
and then we’ve seen other times (more so earlier in the season than last couple games) where he goes way to hard and gets a charge or misses the shot cause he was expecting contact or something.
he’s got some learning to do, but that is all feel of the game stuff and getting used to the NBA which I’m sure he will be able to adjust too (Ex. He’s starting on the perimeter about 5 feet farther back than he did in college…so I’d imagine some of his finishing issues are from the fact he is jumping a bit too early on many of them.)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
One thing he has in common with Beas
Is he is very strong and gets hacked and doesn’t get the call because he’s not a flopper. He got assaulted last night several times and still scored.
PS on a different note: Beas will be back. We haven’t seen the last of B-Easy
A general rule of thumb
Is always to do a “soft toucher”
%
by SSOL (thats what she said) on Jan 10, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
lol
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I don't disagree
Right now he’s probably the 2nd or 3rd best frontcourt player on the team (Love, obviously, and despite some shooting struggles you could make a case for Tolliver’s smarts and experience). In an ideal situation, he’s probably playing about as much as I would want him to. On this squad, he probably should be upwards of 30 mpg.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
don't forget the rookie wall
In this compressed season especially, Adelman wants Williams to have success and establish himself as an NBA player. It will be easier for Williams to establish himself if he is not overwhelmed physically and mentally from the transition to the NBA. Thus, you limit his minutes.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 10, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Good point.
This schedule is going to make it even worse than it usually is.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
I'm annoyed that the season (not just the Wolves the whole darn NBA) was doomed to be somewhat ugly because of the lock out.
Shortened training camp. Free agency going on during camp. Only two pre-season games and against the same team. Back to back to backs and almost no practice days. A schedule that screams tired and banged up players with 66 games in something like 120 days.
I"m glad there is basketball being played, but for the non-contending teams (LA, Oklahoma, Miami, Chicago) it’s hard to see this as much more than a fluke year.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Jan 10, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Really bad ball
I looked at the Wolves roster and saw that with Beas out, Love is the only player with 30+ mpg.
4 other teams only have 1 guy with 30+ mpg: Utah, Phoenix, Dallas, and Cleveland. The Spurs have nobody over 30 mpg.
wait, wait
you mean Wes (19m, 0-5), Darko (6 points), Ridnour (1 ast in… 29m!), etc. may be even less confident? You have a point about Adelman and his not-bad l-room management but… I can imagine Ridnour passing the ball to ricky, ricky makes an assistance, and Ridnour thinks “oh, there we go, another nail in my coffin”. I mean, I think it is kind of obvious for the players why Beas, Rid, etc are starters, so I’m not sure if this situation is good for the team, as it may become unbearable for bench players (ricky, d.williams, barea) who are playing at a good level or at least at an acceptable level.
not the only one
in my imagination it goes like this
“We need an nba wing. well, two, but one would be a start.”
“You’ve got beasley, wes, and webster”
“…, …., and his back is broken right?”
“well, see what you can do. David thinks there’s a lot of potential there.”
“….”
I think another possibility is
that Adelman has put in his order to Kahn and Glen for players he wants and those he thinks(knows) won’t make it. KahnGlen says our guys can play if they get a chance. Adelman is proving they can’t. There will be some moves made at the next logical juncture. I don’t know when that is, but some of you do.
by pirahna on Jan 10, 2012 8:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I sure hope this isn't the case
Why shell out $5mil/year for a good coach if you don’t trust him?
It's not a trust thing to me...
He is doing exactly what folks said he would…giving people enough rope to hang themselves.
by Timberwolf i.e. Albatross on Jan 10, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
because your organization has a history of inept leadership
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 10, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Far too many Johnson's in this game
And the worst Johnson of all was ours, our former number 4 overall pick. At what stage does the front office admit that Wes Johnson is a great athlete, but just not a very good basketball player?
We know that Beasley has been playing poorly, but we really needed someone like him in that 3:21 span in the 4th where neither team scored. I am not saying that he would have made the difference, but the guy can score (albeit inefficiently).
Not to make a big deal out of Love’s comment’s yesterday, but will he admit that he was poor today (by his usual lofty standards), yes he may very well just be tired. Call Beasley out for being inefficient all we want, but that exactly was Kevin today. So who does he throw under the proverbial bus today? This to me will be the interesting part, test how much of a leader he has become.
On the plus side, we were so close to winning (scores were tied with 3:15 to go) whilst only shooty 34% from the field.
I am fearing Chicago though.
Please repeat the the Pampalona mantra
I do NOT fear the bulls!
2012 the year of Twolves porcelain extraction?
Great players have bad games once in a while
Derrick Rose had 8-4-6 with 5 TOs vs Atlanta a few days ago. Dwight Howard had 5 pts 4 rebs in 19 mins last game (ORL still won). Kobe went 6/28 earlier this season. Let’s not go overboard on why suddenly Love doesn’t deserve the max. Let’s see how he responds tomorrow.
Joe Mauer grounded into double play, second to shortstop to first, ________ out at second
Today is a perfect day to put the max contract in front of him.
Shows we believe in him even on his off days.
by Django Z on Jan 9, 2012 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Missed the game.
Did we move the ball? Were we missing good looks or jacking up stupid shots? Did we get out hustled? Did Toronto look like a team or just less bad? Did we take care of the ball or gift turn-overs?
I get the minute distribution to bad player things, but wondered how the Raptors looked under their new coach.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Raptors look insanely disciplined
very impressive squad from my perspective.
The tale for our team can literally be summed up as:
Starters dig us a hole, Barea/Williams/Tolliver/Rubio/Love dig us out.
Both halves that was essentially the jist. The offense had trouble scoring late in the 4th…but Alan Horton pointed out they just looked gassed from having to climb a 12 point deficit
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Thank you...I really liked the Casey hire for them.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Bargs/Calderon/Johnson/Derozan
it’s a legitimate core.
I initially thought we could manufacture a trade for Derozan and then couldn’t really find anything on our roster good enough for him….he’s not untradeable…but they have something good going there.
Very well coached, played hard, made us play sloppy. They are going to contend for the 8th seed I think.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I am curious what there plan is with Valanciunas
Bargs is by no means a traditional center…I would not be surprised if he and Valaciunas couldn’t play together
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Isn't Valanciunas a legit 5?
They should be able to play together.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 9, 2012 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah that was my thought
that could be good
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Just a quick note to be on the lookout for today's report card if you want to get more depressed.
It will be written by Michael Boosalis II. It’s always good to just check these things out because the people writing them invest a lot of time in doing so.
Has anybody looked into this "Adelman" guys story?
Do we really know coached Portland to the Finals? Did anybody actually count how many games he won in a row with the Rockets?
We’re just going to take Kahns word for it that this guy is who he says he is? I’m onto you “Adelman”, and that’s the last thing you want pal.
by fanslaststand on Jan 9, 2012 9:55 PM CST via mobile reply actions
i dont know what he is supposed to do with this roster
i agree with the sentiment that if you play last year’s starters you get last year’s team, but i view that as an indictment of the roater, not the coach…..who has 2 guys hurt, a short season, no wings, etc. i think it is possible to question the rotations and not have it be about adelman. he clearly knows what he is doing.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2012 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i imagine it would be.......
….bringing rubio and williams along slowly to build their confidence, getting as much tape as possible on beas, darko and wes (to show without a doubt they arent starters)’ and to set the stage for kahn’s exit. (that last one is my hope)
The main reason I see to bring Rubio off the bench
Is that when you make him a starter it would be much better if it was forever. Coach needs to be sure he’s ready because you really don’t want to remove him from the starting lineup 2 weeks after he starts. It would be a mess.
What’s been bother me is that Rubio is playing the last 16-17 minutes without a break. He seems tired for the end of the game.
I haven’t lost any faith in Adelman, if that’s his real name, I just want to see Rubio play with KLove more because that’s a winning combo. I’m not sure what else is. As you mention injuries to Lee, Webster and JJ have really forced his hand.
by fanslaststand on Jan 9, 2012 11:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Adelman might be the only person watching NBA games
That doesn’t think he’s ready to start though.
As was mentioned, Id just like to hear his thoughts on it.
by fanslaststand on Jan 9, 2012 11:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
My issue with bringing Williams and Rubio along slowly
is there confidence is there. They both play with lots of it. Williams continues to attack the rim, even more so than he did a few games ago. He’s learning, and quickly. He had a few bad drives, but he had a few where he finished strong and showed that perimeter scoring combo ability that most of us dreamed of.
Rubio clearly is confident and in control of his game.
In my opinion they are our 2nd and 4th best players currently, and I would imagine if Williams gets consistent minutes he will soon be our 3rd best player.
The talent is there, the production is there, the ability to learn and adapt is there. play the damn kids
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Irrational/premature confidence
can set rookies back irreparably – especially when they’re surrounded by losers. Adelman’s message is the right one: we might win a couple more games by starting the rookies, but let’s focus on developing them the right way. Pressuring them to win games early on makes them lose sight of the fact that winning comes only after building up fundamentals over time.
What does "developing" mean though?
How is playing them less=developing?
I’m willing to be wrong about this…I am just curious as to how that works.
I know I tend to base everything off of my experiences playing basketball at much lower levels than the NBA….but generally people seem to get better a lot faster the more they play.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Playing less minutes
means doing less things – they will ask more of Rubio playbook-wise in each coming year. So playing less is a way to solidify a few things at a time, and not add more until he’s good at all the previous stuff.
The more he plays, the faster the good AND the bad stuff will develop – it’s all about finding the right balance so he gets more good than bad.
See "Flynn, Jonny"
Referenced under “Rambis, Kurt” and “WTF, Jonny” and “I swear, the next time he dribbles off his own foot, my eyes are gonna start bleeding”.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
If you watched Williams in college
You would know that he came in barely recruited and worked his butt off. Plus he made a huge jump between freshman and sophmore years. Hes not going to lose his confidence cuz of a few bad games. He’s the type that will just work harder. He has worked hard for everything he has. You won’t kill his confidence.
Plus your assuming hes going to fail? I haven’t seen anything that says hes going to crash and burn. Maybe a few rough patches, but even after missing 3 games worth of 3’s he comes back and nails a few.
Agree
Doesn’t matter who starts but they need to play 2-3 of Love, Rubio, and Williams at same time at all times and fill out 5-man unit around them to balance scoring, defense and match-ups. Right now our starting 5-man unit only has Love and gets upwards of 20 minutes of terrible team basketball in terms of talent, ball movement, and offensive/defensive balance. Put that starting 5 out there if you want to check egos but bring in Rubio or DWill and slide Rid over to the 2, take Darko out, move Wes to 3, bring in Barea, etc. You can’t start Love and have him play 20 min/game with 4 guys who aren’t your top players overall or better at another position.
by PoohRichardson on Jan 10, 2012 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree that Adelman knows exactly what he is doing
and also the “play last years starters, get last years results”. But the problem lies within the roster. How many of the players that we have would you be willing to give meaningful minutes to.
Love, Rubio, DWill, Ridnour, JJB, Tolliver, Webster (if ever healthy).
I have always though that Khan has done a decent job with trades, but look at the draft history. Apart from Rubio and DWill (both BPA scenarios), he has effectively wasted 2 draft picks a #4 and a #6 on guys that just arent very good at basketball. So we are looking at a 50% strike rate in using top 6 picks to choose real basketball talent, which is just not good enough.
We have some special talent on this roster (Love) and 2 guys that look as though they have the ability to be special (Rubio and DWill), the problem is that we have wasted a #4 and a #6 pick.
Sorry, I ranted there and went a bit off topic. Looking at the situation through non rose coloured glasses, Adelman is doing a very good job with what he has. he is easing the rookies in the way he knows and has done so for years, but the reality is, the rest of the players just aren’t very good/consistent.
by Robert Trims on Jan 9, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
I think Adleman is trying to win with the second unit
You could start some version of Rubio/Ridnour/Williams/Love/Tolliver, but the Wolves would get annihilated every time they had to go to the bench. I suspect he wants to be able to use the teams ability to overwhelms the 6-8s on other teams to keep the games going, and hope that the starters can hang on.
And yes, I realize this doesn't make sense by the usual way good NBA teams play
But the Wolves are constructed the way good NBA teams are constructed.
*are not
there fixed it for you.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jan 9, 2012 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
I've been thinking about that angle
but Kahn has been so exceptionally busy that everyone on the bench is one of his guys as well. Love is the only holdover from the previous regime so I’m having a little trouble (besides injury worries) figuring out the rotations.
This is going to be a half of a long year (but the other half is great)
by midlife crisis on Jan 9, 2012 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
I'll disagree, at least somewhat with the Adelman approach.
It’s not so much that I have a better approach. It’s more that there is more than one way to do things. There is no correct way for anything, yet alone how to proceed when working with young players. The future is unknown. Adelman himself freely handed the reigns to Jason Williams in his rookie season. Started every game his rookie year. Rubio is no rookie. So, while there are no guarantees, nine games is enough for me to see this approach doesn’t work. Start Rubio and let the chips fall where they may. Play your best players.
Not sure Jason Williams is the model for Rubio
The guy never achieved, at least on a consistent basis, his true potential. I doubt Adelman wants Ricky to have that kind of up and down career.
But also, Ricky’s ceiling is closer to a Steve Nash than a Jason Williams. Adelman is a more experienced coach now than he was in Williams’ rookie year; he probably realized that you don’t want to rush a guy with that much potential – both the good AND bad habits that Ricky develops now are going to stay with him.
My point wasn't about Williams. It's about the approach.
As I said, there really is no proven strategy for how to proceed. “The future is unknown.” There is merit to starting and not starting. All I’m saying is that the strategy being used now is not working. You can’t keep letting the starters fall behind and then try to catch up. The losing mentality has to be broken soon. Rubio is no rookie. Start him now. Hopefully, with Barea back that will happen.
Our roster just sucks
Wierd how it seemed we were deep to start the season.
Good news.
Randolph, Wes and Beasley could be gone next year…
by Pass the rock on Jan 10, 2012 12:54 AM CST up reply actions
good take SnP
Klove can’t play 40 a game every night. The starters aren’t playing well but we have only injured guys to take their place.
Pek apologist
by running with Twolves (and scissors) on Jan 9, 2012 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
Good take indeed
I’ve been trying to say that whenver that rotation or starter arguement comes up. Minutes are limited, it’s a crazy lockout schedule, and we don’t have replacements. The rotos aren’t appealing, but there are many other ways to slice it.
This is the game I thought was going to happen when they first played.
Bama’s defense is other-worldly.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 9, 2012 10:14 PM CST up reply actions
no penalties for alabama
i dont know the first f’ing thing about college football, but i know that no penalties means awesome coaching.
Good call
Imagine if Knute Rockne were a bigger asshole and a better coach.
That’s Nick Saban.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 9, 2012 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
JJ (and other random thoughts)
I thought he looked rusty in the first half but he sure looked well oiled in the second, if only other Wolves could snap out of a funk that fast. Love performed like he was tired, the new quickness and bounce was missing but I thought he took a step backwards in the wasting time whining category. AR, though always a mixed bag, did more to help than in any previous game. JPete made an interesting comment about Williams not yet adjusting to the size of NBA opponents. I’ve expressed my skepticism about this team being helped by trades because there are just too many holes but on a night like tonight I find myself thinking the old, one more piece thoughts. Then I look at all the injuries around the league and I realize this could be one long brutal short season.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
Honestly it's probably more like 2 more pieces + injured players returning
Webster returns, starts at the 3, Tolliver backs him up
Trade for Courtney Lee, start him at the 2, Malcolm Lee returns and backs him up
Rubio/Barea at the 1
Trade for a backup C i.e. Mozgov, play him 20mpg with Love playing the other 28
Love plays 10mpg at PF, Williams plays 32 with someone (Tolliver playing the last 6)
That means we have Ridnour, Randolph, Wes, Pek, Darko, Miller (could be our backup big) either benched or on the trading block, if Malcolm Lee doesn’t work out then Barea becomes our backup 2 and we have to keep Ridnour.
So in short
1. Move Love to Center, let Williams play the bulk of the PF minutes. The more good players on the floor the better
2. Rubio starts
3. Trade for a average level SG
4. Webster returns to 09-10 form and gives us 30 mpg
5. Tolliver is first big off the bench.
6. Barea is backup PG and our instant offense 6th man type.
7. Miller is able to play 20 mpg as a average level C.
8. Lee works out.
Of course this is an 9 man rotation and if Lee doesn’t work out then it’s an 8 man, Websters back might never heal up and we simply might not be able to trade for a Courtney Lee.
Why did Edelman took barea out of the game? He should be closing games with rubio, Williams, love and toliver/beasly.
by jjbarea on Jan 9, 2012 10:32 PM CST via mobile reply actions
With his bad hamstring
I’m pretty sure Adelman was not going to bring him back in after he went to the bench and cooled off. Since he came in with 3 minutes left in the 3rd period, the option was pretty much letting him play the final 15 minutes straight, or taking him out at some point.
17 minutes max cap
put by his trainers. It is what it is.
Joe Mauer grounded into double play, second to shortstop to first, ________ out at second
Nice use of "It is what it is."
That’s Adelman’s go-to filler phrase. I’m sure he dreams it at night, when he’s trying to work out where to find a wing on this roster.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Missed the middle quarters, aside from radio for 2nd.
First quarter was playing the wrong players.
Fourth quarter was inability to do anything against decent defense.
3-7 seems inevitable. Disappointing three-game stretch against lower-half Eastern teams. Thought we’d sweep and only took one victory.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Shoulda beat Cavs
this one I am more okay with.
Toronto is a very well coached team, and we looked very tired
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Scoreless from 7:58 to 1:42
is all you really need to know.
VERY winnable game, tonight.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Yep.
No I agree.
I felt like they should have gone to Williams more during that stretch. He is still getting his feet wet with being an NBA driver, but he is a very active offensive player and even if he doesn’t have success driving he often would even get his own rebound and do something else with it.
And subsequently he got us 5 points after that 1:42 mark
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I was a fan of moving him
but I gotta say it would take an exceptional return for me to be happy with that idea right now. He looks legit. Gordon/Harden or Gortat+Dudley are about the only trades I can come up with that I would really like right now. Ellis, Martin or Iggy would be interesting but due to contract size I’m not as sure about them.
That was a monsterous dunk he had.
I would never do Gortat and Dudley
Gordon/Harden/Iggy are about all I would be happy with.
Williams could very well be unguardable at some point in his career as he is showing flashes of that ability now. The three point/slashing combo is going to be brutal for teams especially after an NBA off-season (hopefully chillin the entire time with KLove)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I think you undervalue Gortat and Dudley is an average player
but I think we’ve had that debate.
by zebano on Jan 10, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I may indeed undervalue Gortat
I don’t think he is worth #2 pick in the draft though.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Williams isn't the #2 pick in the draft anymore, though.
He’s a player on the team. That’s it. The rest is just unnecessary baggage.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 10, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
You wouldn't give Darko for Gortat
How about Beasley?
by zebano on Jan 10, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I really like Gortat
just not for Williams.
I actually was hoping when we traded Jefferson that we’d ship him to Orlando for Gortat and Reddick
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
Darko was a #2 pick, is the point
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 10, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
So the assumption is
Williams will be as good as Darko or Beasley? He doesn’t appear to be the head case either Darko (confidence) or Beasley (demeanor) were, and he is already good.
those where also #2 picks that weren’t very good picks for their teams
Larry Brown doesn’t play rookies in general let alone fragile ones and a volume scorer going to Miami with perhaps the best volume scorer in the NBA?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yes. That is the assumption.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Seems like a worst-case scenario assumption
that had more legs before Williams started playing
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
At least someone got it.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Had Dan not posted
you could’ve kept going and going.
Bringing honor to uncle rico's family since 2011.
New Orleans Hornets
The better we play (i.e. the farther away from a top 5 pick we get) I wonder how likely a cap relief trade with NOH can become?
I have noticed that they are incredibly thin up front as it appears they only have 4 PF’s/C combined but they have a lot of ’depth" if you want to call it that on the wing.
They have 18 million tied into Okafor and Ariza through 2014, Not sure exactly what there plan is, but that is a lot of coin for two pretty average players.
I wonder if there would be a trade of Beasley/Randolph/Darko/Ridnour/Wes (depth and cap relief) plus our Utah and Memphis picks for our own 1st round pick back, Okafor, Ariza and Xavier Henry.
This would give us two guys that can play the 2 (Ariza is arguably the version of Wes Johnson that actually works a little bit) plus a functional center (and a lineup that would allow Williams to play the 3 being Rubio/Ariza/Williams/Love/Okafor)
It would save N.O. a ton of money, give them frontcourt depth and a quality back up pg.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
We give them a mountain of crap
and two mediocre picks. They give us an above-average center, competent swingman and acceptable guard, PLUS a potential lottery pick in a loaded draft? I think this is Kahn’s wet dream.
No way do they trade with us until after the season is effectively over
Why would they do anything that might help us and hurt the chance of the draft pick being a high lottery pick.
We're probably agreeing about this,
but I was saying that there’s no way they do that trade, unless they completely implode and we do really well (in which case it won’t be a lottery pick) – even then, I think they’d want to acquire a lottery pick, not a set of players led by Beasley, Ridnour and Darko.
agreed
that said I think we could target either Okafor or Ariza and if we somehow got one of them I would be really happy.
You don't think a bad team like the Hornets
wouldn’t salary dump two average players making a butt load of money for nothing just to get the contracts off the books?
I’m not saying what I’ve suggested is the way to get it done, but trades like this happen ALL the time where a bad team will trade a good player for nothing really just to get the contract off the books (remember when the Bulls GAVE the Wizards a pick to take Kirk Hinrich?)
A salary dump with these two players will absolutely be possible….I would argue the probability of the trade goes up even more if both of them are included.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
True
But again, I doubt clearing cap space is a good enough justification for improving the team whose first round pick they own.
by Vandelay Ind. on Jan 10, 2012 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
Well
In my “trade”
they would trade us the pick for 2 lotto protected picks (one from Utah one from Memphis)
So if they are trading us Okafor and Ariza that would essentially make us a playoff team or a slightly worse than playoff team….which would mean they are trading one mid round pick for two mid round picks.
and also if we can get ourselves to .500 at some point in this season they might be willing to make the deal considering that without Okafor and Ariza we would be a 10+ picking team anyways…so they might as well A) clear salary B) get a quality back up pg in Ridnour (who could also play with Jack in the same backcourt) and C) get two lotto protected picks from teams that will never pick higher than 20 in Utah and Memphis, but they will probably be good enough (especially Memphis) to get you a 15 pick next year.
It’s not a bad trade….do they do it? I venture to guess no, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a solid trade for them
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
My contrarian stance
is that despite the fact that Love played like crap, the problems started elsewhere. Love hadn’t been averaging 25 pts based off iso scoring in the post. That’s not his game and not the game that will result in winning performances for this team as a whole. It seemed to me as if the ball movement and penetration was not there. Open shots did not appear, passes to guys rolling off of picks did not seem to be there. Most all of the open looks seemed to come off ball handlers shedding their men off of screens. I think Toronto played a good defensive game, but I’m not sure that’s what took the Wolves out of their game, or if fatigue or laziness was responsible. There’s a reason that the team picks up when Rubio comes in for Luke, the ball starts moving and plays get run. There was little Rubio boost today, except for some dynamics that came from JJ’s short stint. Toronto was incredibly tough inside, but I’m not sure that’s the full story. Love was definitely pushing, taking ill advised shots, but I think there was a degree of trying to do too much for him, and for some other players, because nothing was coming easy.
There are plenty of times when I’m watching this team when I wonder (usually when the starters are in), “who in the hell is on the court that can score on this possession?” I wouldn’t be surprised of some of the players are thinking the same thing and trying to take it upon themselves.
by dropstep on Jan 9, 2012 10:36 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
I think you are largely right
I do feel like Love is coddled a bit too much though…It’s perfectly okay to say he played really poorly and did a lot of ball stopping in the 4th. This doesn’t change his Max contract status in my opinion. He’s been playing at an insane level and was due to have a bad game especially against a team that he didn’t match up well against.
It’s a bad game, great players have it. Love is a great player and played poorly. We all move on to tomorrow where he will have a favorable matchup and will look to get back on track
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Definitely doesn't change his max contract status
Yes it was a poor game (but only by his standards). If Bynum got numbers like that (apart from the efficiency) LA fans would be asking for Dwight Howard and JJ Redick in return for Bynum.
by Robert Trims on Jan 9, 2012 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder if the max contract deal played a part
Maybe KLove did some celebrating? Or some deep and lubricated thinking on whether to sign or not?
Absolutely not
But he would have said a half dozen things about Love and Rubio that would make you wince and two dozen about Wes and Darko that would make you smile and nod your head.
Different Take
When your two best players shoot a combined 5-25 and miss half their free throws, you probably aren’t going to win. Even against the Raps.
I have no idea why Wes is getting minutes (another 0-5 tonight), but I don’t think we’d magically turn into a juggernaut with a different starting lineup.
Free Throws
Wolves are 27th in FT% right now, hitting only 69%. Those 7.75 missed free throws per game are hurting the team. It’s probably cost the team at least one victory. Miami and Memphis stick out with some memorable, late-game misses, but it seems like the percentage is bad just about every night.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Excellent Observation
Free throw shooting has been a problem all year and no one has really been talking about it.
Nobody's talking about it
except in every postgame thread so far this season.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 9, 2012 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
I believe you meant to say
His Point, Still STANDS!
Andy G pulled out the stats
As opposed to carping about Beas/AT/Rubio missing some big ones.
yep
But bad games are part of the game, and wolves got no solution for this. We can not rely on Love to make 3/5 of the team play (his part, the center’s part and PF’s part), and then complain if he can’t play the whole season at maximum level. That’s is the danger in depending on a single guy.
Starters Are Sad (minus Love)
When is Adelmen going to start Rubio, D-Will, and A-R? Ridnour would be a good bench player, that would come off the bench and chuck all over the court. Darko would better off the bench with his frisky defense. And Wesley Johnson? IDK, but the wolves should never ever draft from Syracuse ever again. Beasley can just kick rocks
by WolvesCityMN on Jan 9, 2012 11:11 PM CST via mobile reply actions
He'll start Rubio and DWill
when they’re good and ready. I could care less whether that happens this season, as long as the coaches develop them at the right pace for long-term success.
I don’t think AR will ever start for an NBA team, barring multiple injuries to more competent players.
And how will you know if they're being developed at the right pace?
Is there some magic formula?
Don't Read Too Much Into Tonights Plus/Minus of the Second Unit
The Raptors bench sucks big time
1. Amazingly the $7 million man Barbosa got to foul line tonight and made his free throws
2. Ed Davis has played most of the short season like he should be playing for NC behind Henson
3. James Johnson can do some nice things on defense but he must be the worst shooting SF in the NBA other than maybe Rasual Butler
4. Carter should be coaching and not playing
5. Bayless is walking around in an air boot
6. Gray just had a heart procedure performed on him
7. Kleiza who will eventually be starting will not return until later this week
8. Magloire was a decent player at one time but now he too like Carter should be coaching or in Jamaal’s case out of the NBA
Can’t speak about other T-Wolves games but tonight their second unit was going up against what I would consider a NCAA starting unit at best.
Like this write-up, it covers the game nicely
Too bad, so sad. what can we do? We have to play who we have. I mean, Wes sucks, but who takes his minutes? Darko sucks, Ellington sucks… almost everyone sucks. We can get creative and say Adolph here, Ridnour here, but that still sucks.
Just too many big old holes in the roster.
Lineups
Totally agree. I don’t care who starts ( in order to keep egos in check is fine) and RA is usually finishing with best group, but why not mix some of 1st and 2nd unit guys during the game? Ie, not a fan of Wes right now but why not pair him with Rubio or basically pair Rubio with 1st team after the opening tip and see what happens to their productivity? Makes no sense sending that first unit together as currently constructed for the majority of minutes. It’s obvious our best 5 is Love + 2nd unit guys +/- moving Rid over to the 2.
There is a major problem
With playing Barea and Rubio together. I figured someone would have mentioned this, but Barea in the offense makes Rubio almost ineffective. He needs the ball in his hand, and that often puts Rubio in the role of spot-up shooter. Barea with Luke makes sense, Rubio with Luke makes sense. Barea with Rubio doesn’t work. You could see this before. And so adding Barea to the starting lineup makes sense on two levels.
I would start Luke and Barea. I think that’s the lift right there. Rubio in his current role is just fine. Ultimately, it might be Rubio/Luke followed by Barea/Lee, but I think we always need one of Rubio or Barea on the floor.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Yup, saw this too
Was weird seeing Barea seemingly take over as PG in the middle of possessions. HE’s good for sure, but it he definitely altered the normal flow.
Not that the normal flow is great or anything.
Jonny "Bag o' Chips" Flynn is gone, who's next?
Crystal Ball says Wes "The Ghost" Johnson
by CoffeeJanitor on Jan 10, 2012 1:47 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I mentioned this in the game thread
I think JJ on the floor with Rubio is not ideal because JJ loves to dribble and penetrate, which is what they have Rubio for.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
I've decided (all by myself)
that I like the idea of Barea starting at PG instead of Ridnour. Give him a short shift to start the game, and then bring Rubio in. That way we don’t start with Ridnour’s dead-ball offense, and we can still mix Ridnour in to keep Rubio’s shifts from being so long.
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 10, 2012 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
how about Barea and Ridnour start at the guard spots
Rubio replaces Barea and then Barea replaces Rubio (and Ridnour plays 48 minutes?)
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Jan 10, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
I was about to write,
“But with Luke at the 2 we’d be giving up . . .” and then I realized we’d be giving up nothing. It’s worth a shot!
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 10, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Love was definitely off tonight
but even on a good night I don’t think going to him in the post like he was Al Jefferson is a very good idea. He may develop a good post game but right now it is pretty rudimentary. Seems to get stripped, blocked, or just miss when defended well.
I like Love better in the pick & roll or pick & pop up top. He also thrives off offensive rebounds and putbacks, as well as spotting up for the catch & shoot.
I’d prefer putting the ball in Williams’ hands if someone other than Rubio/Barea is trying to create a shot. Barring a trade, I’m wondering if he will become our ‘go to’ guy. He has range, the ability to put it in the floor, and goes hard at the rim which leads to free throws. I know he missed some tonight, but he made a pretty clutch basket late.
Last, WTF is the deal with Darko and his hands??! I is like the creepy thing with Mike Miller and his man nipples. Darko is constantly rubbing his hands, looking at his hands incredulously after both makes and misses. Tonight after a bad play he came out, sat on the bench, and stared at his hands while talking about it with Pekovic. Does he sweat like Ewing, but only in the hands? Does he have no feeling from the elbows on down? (Would explain a lot). Is he trying to blame his hands for goofing him up, like you see 2nd graders doing? Honestly curious about this one…
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 10, 2012 1:07 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Love was getting his ass kicked last night
The Raptors were very very physical with him. I don’t know how many times he was fouled but it was a ton with a ton more uncalled. He was getting his shots blocked because they were collapsing three guys on him whenever he drove to the basket. It was almost as if they realized the rest of our team sucked.
by xraraavis on Jan 10, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
PS: My big takeaways from the game were
1) Look what a difference average or above wing play made for the few minutes Barea played.
2) Can’t keep spotting the other team 10+ point leads with our starters in both the first & second half. Too big of a hill to climb.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
they fall in the peak of the hill
4th quarter, 7:58 left. Ricky makes a jump shot, MIN 80, TOR 77. After 10 missed shots by MIN, 1:42 left, Williams makes MIN 82, TOR 86. Awful, just awful.
Wes Johnson's scoring line
19 minutes
0-5 shooting (0-3 3pt)
0 FT attempts
0 Pts
usual stats
vs. MEM, 0-5. vs. WAS, 2-8. I’m sorry for him, he’s young and I don’t think he’s such a terrible player, but he doesn’t deserve 8/8 GS.
I think if they hadn’t traded the rights away to Nick Calathes (whose euro contract expires after this year), we’d be pining for him to come over at this point.
I don’t think he’s the kind of player Wolves need right now. I saw him in 2011 Euroleague, PANA-FCB and I have watched only one game of PANA this season, and although he certainly is a GOOD team-player, I don’t think he could develop as SG in NBA, and much less without the Diamantidis factor. Anyway, he is 22 which is btw the average age in MIN and taking into acount the economic and roster limitations of MIN I would prefer a veteran SG.
With injuries and lack of depth,
I won’t complain too much that Wes is getting minutes. There’s just nowhere else for them to go right now.
That said, they need to try something different with him. His numbers are worse than last year across the board. If we need him to soak up some minutes for the time being, we ought to try him from the bench to see if he feels less pressure that way, or if playing with a different mix of players helps. I don’t think it will turn him into a good player, but he’s monumentally awful as we’re using him now. Less awful would be a big improvement.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hah,
just noticed that Doctor_Teh put the word “monumentally” in my head.
On Wes again, compare his numbers across seasons. He needs to get a lot better just to be as good as he was last year. Oh, last-year-Wes, I never thought I’d want you back!
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
I really want him to play with Rubio more
he’s only playing with Beasley (ball stopper), Darko (ball stopper), and Ridnour (not really a ball stopper, but he is a better shooter than passer)
I’d really like to see him play with Williams/Rubio/Tolliver mroe
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It is interesting that Wes has gotten almost no floor time with Rubio.
I don’t actually think anything will turn Wes into a productive player, but it’s getting pretty silly to keep trying the same thing. Let him play with different guys (especially Rubio) and see what happens. He really can’t get much worse. I hope.
by Madison Dan on Jan 10, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
He's been awful
but he’s also playing with the worst group of players
which gets back to my overall complaint about the season currently is that: i understand we have to play these players. but they don’t have to play together
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Rubio every other game syndrome.
Seems that Rubio has a pattern of playing well every other (alternate) game but the wins depend on how the rest of the team plays, such as with the Mavericks. One game, he is on fire, the next, getting by, although with always a highlight. He needs to be more consistent with each game and that’s what he needs to address. I had a feeling he would not do as well with the Raptors since he played well in the Wizards game. Let’s see what happens with the Bulls. No matter the results, if Ricky follows the pattern, he should play well.
part of it is simply getting used to the compressed schedule
which is magnified this year due to the lockout. Euro players practice more and play less than NBA players.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 10, 2012 6:46 AM CST up reply actions
We don't have any good SGs or Cs
but fortunately for us, neither does the rest of the league.
The sooner we can just start whatever makeshift lineups maximize the playing time for our players who don’t suck, the better off we’ll be. We need Darko for about 7 teams with good centers. Other than that, we can get by with AR/Love at the 5. There are so few competent SGs. Barea can probably start there and help more than he hurts most nights. Likewise, Webster, in his infinite simple competence, will be a godsend from what we’ve got now when he gets back.
In the meantime, I’m not breaking any new ground in saying that these garbage lineups are killing us. We’re going out of our way to play our sucky players, and in the process, limiting the total number of minutes our superior backups can play, and forcing them to endure painful 12+ minute stretches of playing time just to get them to approach 30 minutes/night. There’s a reason every NBA team plays its best guys for four 9 minute stretches per game. It’s the best, most efficient way to maximize their time on the floor without totally wearing them out. I’d really like to know what’s going on in Adelman’s head, and why he won’t go to this, since in his case, contrary to past Wolves coaches, gross incompetence isn’t the likely explanation.
Oh, and we lost several possessions in the 4th quarter to lollygagging up the court, crossing midcourt around the 17 second mark, then waiting another 5-10 seconds just to start running a set. By the time the first pass was made, a player was already being pressured to get a shot up before the shot clock expired. I’m not sure why Adelman or our point guards allowed this to happen more than once.
My twitter: www.twitter.com/HogeJ
by John Doe on Jan 10, 2012 2:44 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Omer Asik is the guy to target
I think he will be the next Gortat
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
+1
Love that guy. He’s RFA after this year right?
by Vandelay Ind. on Jan 10, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
And CHI is going to have trouble paying him
Already giving big dollars to Rose, Boozer, Noah, and Deng.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Jan 10, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Darko/Randolph/Ellington
For Asik and Jimmy Butler
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
Jimmy Butler 46.82 PER
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
That AR dunk
was balls-out. Worth sitting through an otherwise frustrating moments.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Randolph should play more
Starting 5 should be: Tolliver/Williams/Love and Randolph should be the first guy off the bench for Williams and then have Williams come in for Tolly and then Tolly for Love to spell Love
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
I just found this funny... wilbon was asked in his chat about ROY
He of course said ivring and rubio. But brought up williams, if they trade Beasley, which he said they need to do ASAP
Thrilla
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Jan 10, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
I completely agree...
but whos gonna take him or even want him. Its amazing how quickly our assets turned into complete steaming piles so quickly. Never would have thought Lazar would be our most valuable asset.
by WolvesBigTicket on Jan 10, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
It’s sort of funny to remember those “what to do with Rubio if the Wolves get the #1 pick/if the Cavs take Williams” discussions last spring. I suspect Adelman, given his recent comments about the roster’s lack of ball handlers/playmakers, wouldn’t mind the “problem” of Rubio and Irving in the same backcourt at this point.
Poor, poor Beasley
@8MichaelBeasley
Michael Beasley
Ok so im in love, but she dont love me back
I've never heard a 20 foot jumpshot referred to as "she"
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 10, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Too soon.
and rec’d.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Ha!
I came really close to making the same joke on twitter.
Brewer has been tweeting like that, lately.
Brew’s seem quite a bit more depressing than that one, though.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
I think he got engaged...
…but some of his tweets make it sound like it’s on the rocks.
is corey
a better shooter then wes?
"This town, this night, this crowd
Come on put them up, let me hear it loud"
by Stay classy, Joe. on Jan 10, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
i feel like Brew is 100 times more consistent
those 6/6 nights ever 3 weeks really spike Wes’ average I think
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Career's so far:
TS%: 0.480 vs. 0.484
eFG%: 0.440 vs. 0.467
And the winner is…. Wes (by those measures).
In other stats:
WS/48: 0.020 versus 0.023
PER: 10.8 versus 9.6
They’re very different players, but very similarly unproductive.
(Jason: I don’t know why I typed “Career’s”. Please don’t mark me down. I need an A in this class to graduate!)
I can't seem to find my red pen . . .
"Of what use is a philosopher who does not hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes of Sinope
by Cynical Jason on Jan 10, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I don't know...
but I saw this one recently, and there are more like it on his page.
As far as I can tell, Brew’s a nice guy—pretty genuine dude, so I wish him well. That pic there SnP is f’ing hilarious, though.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Here's one from Beasley
8MichaelBeasley Michael Beasley
Ok so im in love, but she dont love me back
2 hours ago
Umm, maybe she’s a TWolves fan, and she saw Michael play?
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Pictures of goats should not be brought to bed.
Relationships with the opposite sex should not be “tweeted.”
One should not mix and match these categories.
"Opinion ...a confession."
Beasley is having a rough year
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He should be having a breakout year
He’s not surrounded by stars, no DWade to overshadow him. He has had every opportunity to shine, and so far, the results are anything but encouraging. He needs to learn how to be a team player, and that goes against his ball hog DNA.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
I'd take your criticisms more seriously if they weren't couched in a pretty clear Anti-Beas bias.
Your criticisms are valid even, but they’re just so drenched in “Beasley’s an idiot, Beasley’s an ass, Beasley’s the worst” that I can’t take them seriously.
He’s trying to change his style. He’s clearly been giving more effort on defense and the boards and in passing the ball – hell, I’d argue he’s forced more passes than shots this year.
His shot has been abysmal so far, but he should regress to the mean there – he’s not this bad of a shooter.
But as for “learning to be a team player,” if you don’t think he’s trying, then I don’t know what to say.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Jan 10, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Passing the ball more?
1.0 assists per game is an improvement? Maybe in Bizarro world, but not here. He’s tied for 161st in the league in assists. Clearly, he doesn’t make his teammates better. If his only value then is as a scorer, and he can’t score efficiently, what value does he have? Jacking up 20 shots to score 20 points is not my idea of a benefit to our team.
Sure I’m anti Bease. I’m anti any player that doesn’t show an improvement in team play and helping us win. Missing shot after shot over a long period of time will do that to you. I’m anti Wes, too.
But then again, who isn’t?
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
I agree
everything was pointing to this being a huge year for him and it might be his worst year ever
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He hasn't been the same scorer
since he sprained his ankle last year, and then he kept aggravating it. Now, the same thing could happen this year. I think he should stay off the ankle until he’s 100%, even if it takes several weeks to mend.
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
Can Martell Ghost Ride the 2 guard spot for the rest of this year if healthy?
I realize he is more of natural 3, but given our limitations at 2 could we have Martell play there for the rest of the year. do a solid job and focus on getting a real on this off-season??
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Let's just hope Lee gets back soon
He could be the answer at the 2, at least in the short term
"I don't think I've ever seen a group that is as good at turning the ball over as this one." Rick Adelman
I love Lee
he’s got a lot of NBA ability, whether that will translate into the answer at 2 or not is questionable…but he can do a lot of things we currently lack at that 2 guard role
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
The fact that we're in any way relying on a rookie 2nd rounder to fill a gaping hole, that is a problem.
"Opinion ...a confession."
by feral on Jan 10, 2012 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Should AR be getting more burn?
At what point does production trump b-ball IQ issues? Besides, I have noticed him using better judgement of late (e.g. handing the ball off to Rubio after getting a rebound as opposed to taking it down the floor himself).
If he even thought of passing I'd petition for him to be a full time starting C
He seems to be knee deep in Ra’s doghouse, unless RA is developing him too.
I like the fact that he always produces, but I dislike the fact he passes 1/2 as much as Beasley
that being said it is a crime that Darko is getting 20 mpg and Randolph has been around 10
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Am I the only person
who can’t stop looking at the guy on fire in the Chris Paul/Jordan advertisement? Lordy is that distracting.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
















