More than just regular insanity
by Oceanary on Feb 12, 2012 1:43 AM CST
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PrintFor those of you who don't know (which is basically everyone except S-n-P and Tim) I am South Korean. Born just outside of Seoul, adopted at 4 months old (I have gone back, mind you)
I wasn't originally planning on going to this game. But I was out with some friends last night and caught highlights of Jeremy Lin torching the Lakers, then woke up today and realized he was here. So I figured I might as well go and see if Linsanity was real.
Short answer: it is. But not in the way I was expecting.
The game itself was actually not that great. It was really sloppy, full of broken plays and silly fouls and all the things we've come to associate with Wolves' basketball. Turnovers. Bad wing play. A disasterous end to an attempt at a game-winning inbounds play. It was exciting in the sense it went down to the wire, but wasn't exactly the Suns versus the Warriors.
The copy will tell you Lin hit the game winning free throw #Linsanity. The truth is, the Wolves gave this one away. Lin just happened to be the guy at the line when they let go. The Wolves absolutely should have won this tilt. Even with the slew of turnovers (which is becoming a troubling habit of late) and barely anything to speak of from the wing positions. The team just was careless, and went cold at the worst possible time.
This team desperately needs a reliable, high end wing player (Nic Batum. Repeat it with me until it happens). It desperately needs a defensive presence in the middle. Pekovic is playing some damn good ball, but he hasn't changed my position that the team is best served with a low usage center who does his work on defense. Pek is the opposite...a high usage center who does his work on offense. With that high usage comes good and bad; the good is lots of points on not a lot of shots. The bad is a lot of turnovers (still hasn't figured out that three second rule....) and not much paint protection. If Amare Stoudamire had been healthy....well, let's just say I think the Knicks would have won convincingly, rather than by default.
It became obvious to me tonight why Lin works for the Knicks, and it also became obvious that D'Antoni's system is only part of it. Iman Shumpert, in fact, is living proof that it takes more than just a good system to play well. Shumpert is a terrible, terrible point guard (although he can apparently score in bunches when his coach stops caring about him not sticking to the playbook) He's Randy Foye's lack of anticipation combined with Jonny Flynn's attitude.
That said, the pick-and-roll certainly factors in. D'Antoni calls a lot of it. Shumpert can't run it to save his life. Same with Tony Douglass, and Mike Bibby has nothing left in his knees. Lin, on the other hand, can run the hell out of it. I'm not sure he even rolls out of bed without a pick from Tyson Chandler. And yes, as Steve Nash rightly points out, everyone runs some version of the pick-and-roll (unless your Phil Jackson or one of his wannabe proteges) but there it is.
Lin plays very smart. He skilled, crafty, and has a terrific change-of-speed ability. He shot terribly in the second half, but it wasn't due to taking bad shots. He got tired, and Rubio dialed in. It was pretty obvious that Rubio was aware of the hype and took it somewhat personally. His second half defense was outstanding.
But here's the thing; tonight I realized that Linsanity goes way beyond the court. It's not just Jeremy Lin the player. It's not just the cinderella story (where's the Pekovinsanity?). It's not just the adoring media and their endless Lin puns (Linsanity. Linsperation. Heat Lindex. All he does is Lin) Those just make me think of Senor Chang.
(FYI, Ken Jeong is actually Korean, not Chinese. But el Jeju just doesn't work quite as well as el Tigre)
Jeremy Lin drove tonight's event. Not game. Event. Something happened with tonight's crowd that I'm still trying to fully understand.
But here's the part that was really astonishing to me: there were a ton of Asians in the crowd. Very visible Asians, dressed J-and-K-Pop style and wildly screaming every time Lin did something cool.
Is the uproar about Lin's race justified? Debatable. But is it real? Absolutely yes. Don't let anyone tell you it's just a media gimmick, and the average person doesn't actually care. I was skeptical about it myself; that's why I went tonight. And I couldn't have imagined anything like this.
A group of 15 Asians followed me through the ticket gate (literally. I counted) Another 9 sat in the row behind me, and there were another 5 about halfway down to the court where I was sitting. When Lin was introduced, there was a giant roar from the crowd, and when he scored his first basket, groups of 5-6 Asians all over the arena jumped to their feet cheering. A group in the upper deck above me hung a giant Chinese flag from the railing. There was a row across from me waving Japanese flags. A group of Asian girls hung a "We Love You Lin" sign above the tunnel leading to the visiting locker room. I saw several Asian families in the hallway, wearing everything from homemade Lin jerseys to Minnesota Gopher sweatshirts. On the way out, I walked past a group of Vietnamese talking to a white couple about Lin. Another group ambushed me at the bottom of the stairs wondering if there had been a group of Koreans in the building (I don't know. If there was, I didn't see them). I didn't even know groups of Asians was going to be a thing at this game.
Like I said, I'm still trying to comprehend what it all really means. I was at Yao Ming's first game at the Target Center, and didn't see anything like this. Something about Lin speaks to the Asian population here. Credit the Wolves' marketing department. They did a fantastic job, as always. Lin has been on the scene for a week, and they managed to turn that into about 1,000 tickets they probably wouldn't have otherwise sold.
And equally astonishing, the rest of the crowd seemed to understand all this without being told. I never heard a question asked about the overwhelming Asian demographic at the game (and I really do mean overwhelming. I'm not usually one to intentionally look at these things, but there was just no way to not notice the difference tonight) None of the Asian groups got stared at, and the only "I'm cheering for the Knicks" screamers I saw get shushed was the group of kids in the suite to my right (which I admit, I was happy that happened. Seriously, if you had heard them, you would have thought the damn building was on fire...)
The reasons are debatable, but there's no getting around the reality that there haven't been many Asians involved in the NBA. Recent memory, only 4 players come to mind (Lin, Yao, Yi JianLian and Yuta Tabuse) and to my knowledge, the only Asian holding an executive position is Rich Cho in Charlotte. The same as how there are very few Asian movie stars in the West, few featured musicians, no comedy sitcoms of Asian families or chick flicks with Asians as the love interests. It's just reality.
And from the 'outside', maybe this doesn't seem like a big deal. I don't know, I've only ever been on the inside. By no means am I condemning anyone, but I will honestly say the bias is real. I've run up against the stereotypes. I've heard the racist comments. When I apply for new jobs, people put me in the "ethnic" box. When I first meet people, I get a lot of comments about how I "look different". When I go out with non-Asian friends....particularly non-Asian women....I get stared at. It's not something I obsess over. It's not something I'm bitter about. But yes, it does happen. And tonight, I felt it. Which for me, is unusual all in itself.
Maybe it's because Lin is Asian-American, as opposed to an Asian immigrant or foreign visitor. Maybe we Asian-Americans see our own struggle in him...the struggle to reconcile the disconnect we feel between the Eastern heritage of our looks and the Western way we were raised (I know a lot of Korean adoptees. Every one I know has gone through this) When you're a citizen, you don't expect to be treated like a foreigner. My family didn't care. Why did anyone else? My cousins don't look at me and see an Asian person. They see their cousin, the same as they see their White cousins. I was raised just like them. The way I look doesn't change that.
Maybe we gravitate to Lin because he seems to have been accepted by Western society as a part of Western society. He plays basketball, and now people want to see him play basketball and be good at it, rather than thinking it's not something he should be doing. I don't mean to paint Lin as an Asian Jackie Robinson, (or brush off the breakthroughs of Yao or Tabuse or Wataru Misaka) but it did kind of feel like that tonight. Something about the crowd gave you the impression that everyone knew a threshold had been crossed.
Maybe that's what Linsanity really is. The bridge between what Asian-Americans get portrayed as, and what we really are. Maybe the appeal of Jeremy Lin is that he's found a way to show that to everyone.
Game Notes:
- Really, the only Knick to play a whole game of solid basketball was Tyson Chandler. He vexed everyone not named Pekovic with his length and defense.
- If Adelman wants to run with a two point guard lineup, he should probably make it Rubio and Barea and bring Luke off the bench. Barea by himself is not working out well.
- It's also clear that Adelman is just as stumped by the wing play as we are. His rotations at the 2 and 3 have no consistency, and I'm sure that's because he has no idea who he can rely on, if anyone.
- Kinda felt like this was the type of game you'd want to be playing Anthony Randolph in....
- The Wolves HAVE to fix their turnover problem. I don't have any proof, but I'm fairly certain Pekovic has been a big part of this happening all of a sudden.
- Carmelo Anthony is out of excuses. Lin solves New York's point guard problem, and Stoudamire is custom built for the pick-and-roll play he provides. When Melo gets back, he's either going to adjust and fit in, or not. If not, what then?
- That said, the core of the Knicks' struggles have been the point guard spot. Like I noted before, Shumpert and Douglass are hopeless with D'Antoni's system. Or any system.
- I'm not so sure I'd start Baron Davis over Lin anymore.
- Martell Webster's mohawk is amazing.
- 32-21. Kevin Love eats Knicks for breakfast
- I'm still adjusting to having a point guard who makes contributions even when he isn't hitting his shots
- For the love, do not lose to Charlotte on Wednesday...
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nice write-up... thanks
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
+1
This team desperately needs a reliable, high end wing player. It desperately needs a defensive presence in the middle.
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 12, 2012 1:51 AM CST up reply actions
it's b/c he's Asian-AMERICAN, not just just Asian born Asian
Like I said, I’m still trying to comprehend what it all really means. I was at Yao Ming’s first game at the Target Center, and didn’t see anything like this. Something about Lin speaks to the Asian population here.
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 12, 2012 1:56 AM CST up reply actions
the other 3 ain't American - that (plus the NYC media) make a difference
Recent memory, only 4 players come to mind (Lin, Yao, Yi JianLian and Yuta Tabuse)
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 12, 2012 2:01 AM CST up reply actions
as a Filipino-American, I'd like to see Lin do well
though it would have been better if the Wolves won instead.
personally, I had no connection whatsoever to Yao, JianLian, or Tabuse.
I do agree that Linsanity is different w/Asian-Americans.
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 12, 2012 2:16 AM CST up reply actions
Wang Zhizhi with Dallas too
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Who can forget
Mengke Bateer? Most people can forget him, apparently. I think the only reason I remember his name is because I love the sound of Mongolian words.
While we’re on the topic of underrepresented countries, Mexicans had only two NBA representatives until the Hornets signed Gustavo Ayon last fall. It seems strange that our closest southerly neighbor has the same number of NBA players as Poland.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
I don't have the link handy right now,
but check out Danny Chau’s piece at Hardwood Paroxysm about Lin. It’s good stuff.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 12, 2012 2:05 AM CST up reply actions
thanks
http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/02/what-i-see-in-jeremy-lin/
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 12, 2012 2:10 AM CST up reply actions
I think
it’s also that he’s 6’3
Yao was so colossal (truly one of the largest players in history) that he was born to play basketball, Yi is a legit 7 footer, and Yuta Tabuse played 17 NBA minutes in his career.
Lin is a tall guy, but he’s not a freak of nature, he’s a guy who was born in Cali to immigrant parents, he worked hard, went to Harvard and is now playing in the NBA.
It’s an Asian American dream story that if you work hard enough, you can succeed at anything.
I would think that Lin's story is the idealized version of the American Dream.
Hard working child of immigrant parents takes advantage of all the opportunities the USA has to offer and succeeds beyond his wildest dreams. That’s the storybook, Norman Rockwell, Disney, let’s get the screenplay written type of tale that should be shouted out to the rest of the world.
"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson
by SoDakHmr on Feb 12, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm Caucasian but I can connect with Lin
He’s the exaggerated version of the american-born Asian guy I’ve played pick-up ball with thousands of times: great handle, hard to guard, makes his shots, finds the openings in traffic.. Lin is 6’3" and went to Harvard and is really, really, really good at basketball – thus the exaggerated version. But I think we can all relate to Lin, whereas Yao was an anomaly like Shaq. He’s fascinating but we feel a distance. Lin is a buddy, a friend, someone you compete against or with. Thats why it’s so fun to watch him succeed.
It's not just that
It’s because he’s the first asian guard to have an impact. Yuta Tabuse was around for a while, but never made an impact and barely cracked the nba bench.
Asian basketball players in america are all guards. We can’t relate to Yi, Yao or Wang Zhizhi. But we can all relate to Jeremy Lin because that’s the position we play and we all faced the same hurdles (e.g. athleticism).
Jeremy Lin is seriously breaking down a lot of doors. Asian guards won’t be looked at the same way again.
CLOSE LOSSES FRUSTRATING
wins +7 margin of victory = 11
close games won = 2
losses -7 or greater = 7
close games lost = 8
I chose 7 b/c that’s more than 2 “reasonable” possessions barring 4 point plays.
EIGHT. that’s effing annoying. poor execution. mental lapses. bad decisions. inability to get key defensive stops. need more practices and time together.
on a positive note, this capable team is close to getting over the hump. B-Easy, Wes, or D-WIll gotta step up & break out. Wes and D-Will have the most room for improvement.
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
Jim Peterson's one funny line this year
Was calling Martell Webster “My Little Pony” about 5 seconds after Webster checked into his first game of the season. That has kind of stuck with me.
I like the Ham in Webster
Offering to do post-game pro tips with Jim Pete and company. Martell is a good guy who is still coming back from a serious injury.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Yup...
Hanny was so embarrassing on that defense clinic though, lol.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 12, 2012 7:31 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't mention it on purpose
but the guy I sat next to during the Mavs game (who was a twenty-something guy with his parents) was of Korean descent. I wouldn’t have been able to say Korean, except he had the Korean flag tattooed on his arm:
Even then, who knows? It might be a Tae-Kwon-Do thing. He and I snarked the shit out of the game, though. The few times I said anything about the Knicks being in town the next night, or Lin-sanity or anything like that, made it pretty clear he didn’t give a shit one way or the other. He was cheering for Love and Ricky (and with my prodding, Pek). Didn’t seem to be an ethnic thing with him.
But it is so obvious that it is a big thing with people. And why wouldn’t it be? During the Olympics I pay attention to the Norwegians and the Swedes and the Czechs! I’m no more Czech than Lin is Korean, but there’s something there. It doesn’t take much connection for some of this stuff.
Great post, Oceanary. Seriously. A valuable contribution to the discourse around here.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 12, 2012 2:03 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
You know if a Minnesotan became an awesome Sepak Takraw player overnight...
…I might lose my shit a little bit too. But the best part would just be going to matches and getting to connect with the other fans.
That game is intense.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 12, 2012 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
So much fun!
Played a lot of takraw when I lived in Thailand- amazing to watch when people are doing bicycle kicks and crazy stuff.
Living it up in Beijing, home of the Shougang Beijing Ducks.
I certainly think the team needs a great defensive C
However, Pek still deserves the lions share of the minutes. True, he is not imposing defensively, but lately he’s been a damned god rebounder as well, which I think makes up a bit for his bad D.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
Attn: Author Oceanary
Since this whole Linsanity broke out, I won’t lie, I’ve probably read every national and NY local article and tidbit about this phenomena but this article is by far the most coherent, organized and insightful article I have read. It gave outstanding micro and macro analysis of Lin’s rise and appeal. Just wanted to say good work and I’d add this to your portfolio.
by Daize on Feb 12, 2012 2:24 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
I think it is just certain groups with support their own.
Like the Irish, Italian, and even Asians. I am in fact 100% German Americna. So I do cheer for Nowtizki but I would never cheer for him when he played the Wolves.
As a Taiwanese American
I love that the kid is giving TAIWAN a country to be proud of here. If I had a nickel for every time said “Oooooh, so it’s like Thailand right?” every time I say I was born in Taiwan…
It just makes me smile because approximately 2 years ago, I did a research project for my Contemporary Asian American sociology class where I examined Asian athletes in the NBA where Jeremy Lin (who had just recently graduated from Harvard) was the closest thing to a conclusion that I could draw on future hope for Asian Americans to make it in the NBA. According to my 9 page paper 2 years ago…
"In a sense, I’m trying to represent Asian Americans on the basketball court and I’m trying to be the best player and reach my potential… I’m on my own mission, and there aren’t many people who can relate to me," (Chu, 2008) says Jeremy Lin. As time has begun to show, Lin may soon have many people who can relate to his story.
He is an Asian-American
Raised in here. You can sure be proud of him as an Asian-American too, but his is an American. There is nothing to do with Taiwan in here. He will be always recognized as an american of Chinese descent.
Wait . . .
Taiwan and Thailand aren’t the same thing? %%
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
Taiwan aka "Republic of China"
Not to be mistaken with the “Popular Republic of China”
by Ricardo Blonde on Feb 12, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
Still surprised but shouldn't be ...
at how quickly and how well written these post game articles by the main contributors come out. Great job both on the basketball and the racial angle from your perspective.
Great write-up
One thing that I suspect helped create Linsanity is how animated Lin is during the key parts of the game.
Kind of like Ricky when he made that 3 at the end of the game against the Clippers. That’s what sends fans through the roof. When someone delivers and then is as excited and passionate about it as they are.
Watching Lin represents everything that is great out of sports. Underdog comes in and kicks ass, and the team wins. Pretty hard not to enjoy.
Now for chapter 2 we’ll see how he adapts to the stars coming back and the how everyone will try to force him to go to his left (those Adelman bashers should note that we are the team that introduced that successful strategy).
Utah tried to do that at the key.
They were unsuccessful in stopping him after funneling him cause there wasn’t anything in the paint to stop Lin from going all the way.
Where the wolves had like this 3 man wall thing in at the rim.
Lots of credit should be given to Rubio for his defense after the first half.
A void? I see no void!
Already been said, but...
This is the best take on Lin-sanity I’ve read yet. Thanks for the refreshing read.
Few other observations about the loss
While we were busy committing turnovers and missing shots down the stretch, the Knicks were doing their best to do the same. In fact the Knicks went over 6 1/2 minutes where they only scored 2 points!
We were beaten by Landry Fields, Iman Shumpert, and Steve Novak (as well as Chandler and Lin). My point? Just competent wings is all it takes to win. Don’t need superstars necessarily.
If anyone wants a dose of hope for the future, look at Jared Jeffries. He was 3-5 last night knocking down some key open jump shots. He use to be one of the worst offensive players I’ve ever seen. Ugliest shot ever. So take solace folks, the jump shot can be learned! It is possible. Let’s hope our “shooters” learn to shoot one day.
Great heart felt article Oceanary..
I was so pissed this game wasnt on TV. I was out last night so am just reading about it this morning.
I loved your take on things. I will say though that I think that as long as people continue to refer to themselves as “asian american” or “african american”, etc that society will continue to focus on the differences rather than the similarities of all of us. I’m not sure what that right asnwers is…but hopefully as a society and as individuals we can figure out how to be just “americans”…but still find ways to celebrate ancestry. Nice work my friend. Love your takes.
"But this one goes to eleven..."
by kingsxman on Feb 12, 2012 8:12 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yah but
belonging to groups is as American as it is human.
We are all members of groups — we define ourselves by our high school, our sport, our fandom, our music preferences, our neighborhood and so on.
When in Mexico, if we meet others who find out we’re from Minnesota, it forms a bond. If we meet others who take bike trips in Europe, it forms a bond. Spear fishing through the ice? Wearing a TWolves Tshirt? Frying smelt? Enjoying gravadlax or lefse, talking about a Mose Allison album?
Whatever — embrace our groups, I say.
There's a difference between those groups you mentioned
and being in ethnic groups such as African, Hispanic, Asian and others. These ethic groups are labels created by people outside those places.
Like I know I wouldn’t be happy if they created a word to label all of North Americans without any input from North America. Lump Canada, U.S., Mexico all into one identity. People would be pissed if that happened.
A void? I see no void!
by gunsbound on Feb 12, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Most times...
…. people don’t have a choice to be pigeon-holed. I’m enrolling my daughter into the Mpls Public Schools and we had to pigeon-hole her into one and only one of five available choices. My daughter is now hispanic even though she is only ~1/8 hispanic. In a country full of mixed-raced kids, that’s absurd.
I’m somewhat curious as to what Asia’s take on Lin is. Every time a Japanese players shows up in MLB, it’s a big deal in Japan. When Yao played in the NBA, it was a big deal in China. Other than the broadly encompassing Asian-Americans, I wonder who else around the globe is taking interest for social/cultural reasons.
As an American who resides in Taiwan
I can see how much of a media darling Lin has become—they have been talking about him non-stop in the media here. Taiwanese athletes (or in this case, of Taiwanese descent) who make a mark in international athletics get a lot of attention in Taiwan. ESPN Taiwan would always broadcast Yankees games (the team I hate the most) because Wang Chien-Ming was on their team, and after he moved to the Washington Senators (and most importantly, was healthy enough to start playing for them), they started broadcasting all of their games. By the way, Wang is like a national hero here. And now I can imagine I’ll have to watch all the Knicks games on TV (with a smattering of Lakers probably). Anyway, I couldn’t be happier to see Lin have his success. There are a number of reasons I can think of why he is getting so much press here, and one of them I believe is that Taiwanese want international recognition (for which there are many reasons) and Lin can bring some more attention to Taiwan (through his Taiwanese ties). In any case, I think Taiwan is a great place and I hope it gets more attention.
One more thing, I can’t help but wonder why Lin kept getting pushed down on depth charts by the three NBA teams he has played for. It seems like he has shown his skill whenever he has had a chance, but yet he wasn’t ever (until recently) given much of a chance. I do wonder if there is some Asian bias (if only for the reason that Lin is of Asian descent) and if it had any bearing on why it took so long for him to get much of a chance. Anyway, I don’t want to stir up controversy for controversy’s sake, but it’s just something I’ve been wondering about.
Finally, I appreciated your article greatly, Oceanary, as I always do. Keep up the great work!
by twnhoopsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Interesting.
Jeremy Lin is second generation Taiwanese, so I guess there’d be interest in Taiwan. I wonder about mainland China…..
Basketball is truly an international sport now, and that can only be good for the game.
Re: Taiwanese athletes
For me the 2011 sports moment of the year was seeing the home crowds support LPGA golfer Yani Tseng as she won for like the 11th time last year.
To me she was easily the athlete of the year and nobody here knows her name so it was super to see her get the love back home.
by fanslaststand on Feb 12, 2012 8:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Interesting
I am wondering what will happen to my kids when my wife and I get around to having them. I am white (swedish, irish, english (yes, i glow in the dark)) and my wife is from India. Her mother was actually born in what was then Pakistan and her father was born in Bangladesh but she (for now) has an Indian passport. Our kids will be born Americans but what will they be labeled as and what will we tell them that they are?
Hopefully....
…. by the time you and your wife have kids, the pigeon-holing nonsense will at least be broadened to include multi-racial. And the whole Asian label is of limited use when you consider how broad that label is; Israel, half of Turkey (is Hedo Turkolu Asian?), most of Russia, etc….
Vrooman, I wish you were right
but I’m 59 now and racism in this country has been getting worse for the last 35 years or so. It was terrible when I was young, but Civil Rights took a big bite out of the hate. Then the Southern Democrats became Republicans and turned the Grand Old Party into Jeff Davis’ revenge.
Too cynical? Read this, especially the comments.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Thanks for the write up.
Especially for sharing your experiences as a Korean adoptee. I have a Korean adopted sister, cousin and very god friend which, I think, sometimes in a weird way puts me too close to always notice (or remember to notice) that they go through some of the things you described.
I also agree about the center issue. Pek is a great player to have and would be the perfect back up center along side a more defensive minded center. That said, Pek is clearly our best option right now.
Agree needing a more defensive minded center
To clarify, Pek’s D is part of the problem. The other’s is Love’s D. Combined they are really weak. Both need to be paired with more defensive players. Together, great O, weak D.
Maybe; but a lot of guys ran into Pek when they drove the lane, and they got up slowly, piece by piece.
"I'm shocked - shocked - to find basketball going on in here."
Great post
and I think our “sombrero idiots” have been outdone by several magnitudes. Displaying a Japanese flag to honor a Chinese American player? Oh my.
Missed the first half (light rail construction flat tire #$%@!) so I really have no feel for how the game flowed, but Lin appears to be real and future matchups with Ricky will be fun to watch even if it does suck that we no longer have the only unicorn in the league.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Ray Richardson’s recap on twincities.com makes your point for you. He refers to the matchup as an international one, while clearly knowing Lin is an American. Uh…
Excellent piece. I always find myself rooting for Germany in the World Cup after the US inevitably fails.
by johndough on Feb 12, 2012 8:59 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Nice work, Oceanary.
On the turnover issue, the last couple of games Love and Barea have been the most surprising culprits. Rubio and Pekovic have had a pretty steady stream of them over the year, but Love and Barea have been unusually boneheaded in the last 2 or 3 games.
It’s kind of funny, in that turnovers aren’t all that highly correlated with whether the Wolves win, but there seems to be some kind of threshold effect. The Wolves are 0-5 when they have 20 or more turnovers. Even that might be kind of flukey, as there have been 80 games in which a team had 20 or more turnovers. Oklahoma City has the most such games, and they’re 5-2 in them.
Efficient scoring is a lot more important than not turning the ball over. The correlations between the Wolves winning (just looking at this year) and their own TS%, their opponent’s TS%, and the difference between own and opponent TS% are all way higher than the corresponding values for turnovers. Turnovers are super infuriating to watch, though.
Turnovers & poor shooting
are the reason we lose. Not poor defense. Not any individual player’s weaknesses. Everyone on this team could be cited for stretches of unforced turnovers and missing open or close-in shots that should be a ‘gimme’ for NBA players.
by ogishkemuncie on Feb 12, 2012 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
OK, so to summarize
defense doesn’t matter and no one player is more responsible for the team’s success or failure than any other player. You can’t possibly mean these things.
by Madison Dan on Feb 12, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
apologiez
i wuz Miami-Heat mad after watchin de game, had ta shut itout fo a minute. report card comin soon
MAYN HOL UP!
Lottery Ticket Update
Last night, Malcolm Lee had 4 points on 2-9 shooting with 4 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 turnover, and 1 steal in 27:08. I hope he’s defending well, because it doesn’t look like he’ll improve our team TS%.
wes johnson?
Does the guy need a psychologist? Is he the Chuck Knoblach of the NBA. Never have I seen such a complete and utter crumbling of a players game. He is contributing nothing (literally last night) I’m pulling for him but holy cow, ugly scene. I give credit to Adelman for attempting to keep him in the mix when every instinct must be telling him to bury him deep, deep, deep on the bench. Painful to watch a 4th pick circling the drain.
Except Knoblauch was good before he crumbled.
I do think Wes might need some help for his head, though. He shouldn’t be this bad.
by Madison Dan on Feb 12, 2012 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"Except Knoblauch was good before he crumbled."
That pretty much sums it up.
Wes has never been good.
but he was better than this
Unfortunate
by TO12 on Feb 12, 2012 12:31 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
This is true
In his first 40 games, Wes hit on 39% of his 3-point attempts. Since then, he hasn’t been so good(closer to 30%). I’d love to say that defenses started to try to take away his 3 since his good start(relatively speaking), but we all know that is not the case. I would like to think that Wes can hit 40% of wide-open three balls. I’m not seeing it, but I REALLY would like to think it. This has to happen for him to be a positive factor in the NBA. I’m still hopeful he can make the jump, but he’s got some work to do.
by Imyourhuckleberry on Feb 13, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
Also, that work on his game
can be done in the D-league. If Jeremy Lin can play 20 D-league games and come back more NBA ready, I don’t see why Wes cannot have a similar experience.
by Imyourhuckleberry on Feb 13, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Do we need to post Wes's workout video again?
I would like to think that Wes can hit 40% of wide-open three balls.
Yeah, well, he can’t so much.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
And offense
Knoblauch is one of the best Twins ever! Top 20. I still believe the Twins are cursed because fans threw stuff at Knoblauch. Why blame him for wanting to leave what was a horrible organization committed to losing?
Wes is awful!
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Feb 12, 2012 10:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Oceanary - what wonderful article
Exceptional as always
Chazz Reinhold: Mom?? MOM!! What is she doing back there? I never know what she's doing.
by Son of Gerald Green on Feb 12, 2012 9:37 AM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
ESPN showed a stat last night
Jeremy Lin is now the NBA’s leading scorer in history in terms of total points in his first four starts. More than MJ, more than Allen Iverson, and more than Shaq.
I think being an American of Asian decent is a big deal. Frankly I think it’s also a big deal that he went to Harvard and he’s making it in the NBA because that is about as rare as being of any Asian decent and playing in the NBA. Lin is only the fourth Harvard grad to play in the NBA.
David Stern is loving this. I think Mike D’Antoni is owed a lot of credit because his offense usually makes point guards look a lot better. However, Lin is making the shots and he’s making most of them.
I can’t believe the Wolves lost last night. Is Tyson Chandler just allowed to make moving screens anywhere on the floor? He was zone blocking Kevin Love for crissakes right in front of two refs.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
End of game, people will let the offense get away with just about anything most times
e.g. Reggie Miller throwing a guy to the floor to get open, etc. etc.
Rose decides not to go 1-on-2 and I was thinking, "what are you doing?! You've got the numbers!" -Zach Harper, Daily Dime Live
that stat means nothing.
remember earlier this year when tom brady wouldve passed for 7000 yards at the rate he was going? this kid isnt better then MJ, or shaq, or yao or whoever.
by statue_left on Feb 12, 2012 4:58 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Its not like Pek and Love didn't set moving screens as well
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 12, 2012 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
You mean
record for the post-merger NBA. This is like Love going after the double-double “record”.
by lordbaldric on Feb 13, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
I was fully prepared to read your wonderful report till you said Batum
Then I broke into laughter and didn’t take anything you were going to say before or after seriously.
And on a final note, Lin sucks, plain and simple I haven’t seen a damn thing from him that makes him look like its any more then a 2 week fling. Melo and STAT return and Lin averages 2ppg.. some dumbass team takes him in FA and he proves his worthlessness by scoring 6ppg to go along with his double digit turnovers and overall sloppy play. So many players we can look back on and see 2 week dominance rewarded with millions. Those teams got in trouble.
If that happens
the NY Media will crucify Melo and Stat.
Stat has shown he can play in NY with D’Antoni and serviceable point guards. Melo hasn’t really shown anything.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Melo is traded. The Knicks are likely EC contenders if they still have Gallinari. Melo is a one note offensive player that doesn’t play defense.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
by NBA Observer on Feb 12, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Just like you said when Love has a 0% chance of being suspended
you will be wrong again. 6 ppg with double digit turnovers, haha troll better next time.
"David Kahn doesn't like it, so I'm going to keep it." - Kevin Love on growing his beard.
I do believe you are a very misguided troll..
I think you are looking for the Manhatten bridge, not the Mississippi bridge. Go due East and you might just find what you are looking for, but you will find no takers here. We have solved your riddle three and have vowed not to feed thy troll… have fun storming the castle…
Lin doesn't suck.
Lin is going to get better. He is respectable now. Imagine his game when he has 0 turnovers.
That being said he was over-hyped. But he doesn’t suck.
I was really bummed when Golden State let Lin go. I loved to watch his aggressive
play during garbage time. Well, they had Steph Curry; I get that. I hoped somebody would pick him up. By the time I found out that Houston had, he was gone again. I’m glad the kid didn’t throw in the towel. I’m enjoying Linsanity as much as anyone because I was pulling for him two years ago. I had a lot of fun last night though; my wife is Chinese, and she was rooting for the Knicks as I was pulling for the Wolves. I thought the Wolves had it won, but their atrocious clock management, and their dubious rotations in the last few minutes were exasperating to me. Chucking from 3 at :20s still on the clock, when you have a wide-open lane to the hoop for a sure 2, makes me tear my hair out. Thanks Wolves, for giving my wife a great Valentines GIFT (BTW, Oceanary, There are a lot of women, who aren’t Korean, or even Asian, who watch Korean drama on their computers at home, in case you didn’t know). Our Chinese Christian church is thrilled about their new hero, Jeremy Lin. That said, I think Ricky did a great job on him in the second half. He was all over Lin like syrup on a pancake. One NY Times article stated that Rubio is not known for his defense; OK, so only we know the truth. That’s our secret.
"I'm shocked - shocked - to find basketball going on in here."
nice explanation
I knew Lin was Asian American, so the absolute insane (I refuse to use his name in some unclever pun) amount of Asians there last night startled me. For the life of me I couldn’t figure out what the big deal was, I mean he’s from LA, not anywhere in Asia.
However your write up did a nice job of explaining the Asian American connection and how they all can relate.
As far as crowd noise, I think the amount of Asian people and stupid Knicks fans there is what made the Wolves crowd cheer so loud. I for one feel a need to cheer louder when opposing fans are in the building.
Also, Rubio ate his ass up last night in the second half. I wish ESPN could mention that and the 1-13 second half shooting and 6 TOs.
REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.
by uofmike on Feb 12, 2012 11:06 AM CST via Android app reply actions
If only....
….. a short, slow footed, white guy from the suburbs who can’t jump, shoot, pass or defend could come in and dominate the NBA. I would be all over that.
by Jacks2345 on Feb 12, 2012 11:30 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
this interests me greatly
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 12, 2012 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
You think the Wolves are having turnover problems "all of a sudden"?
The Wolves HAVE to fix their turnover problem. I don’t have any proof, but I’m fairly certain Pekovic has been a big part of this happening all of a sudden.
Pekovic has started the last five games. Team turnover counts:
10
15
16
18
19
Games Jan 13th through 20th, team turnover counts:
12
19
16
18
18
Rick Adelman, second day of training camp:
Everybody shared the wealth today…. I just told them I petitioned the league to give us a point for every turnover, and they denied it. So we’re going to have to play by the rules.
….
We throw the ball all over the place. They’re trying to make passes that aren’t there. The way we play, you have to make decisions. We give them the freedom to do things, and if it continues this way I’m going to have to change things, where certain guys aren’t allowed to do certain things.
I think they’ve been very loose the way they’ve played, very casual with the way they take care of the ball. You can’t do that. You’re just not going to win playing like that.
After the second preseason game:
I don’t know what else we can do…. We talked about people playing within their strengths. I mean, if you keep making the same mistake, over and over, you probably shouldn’t be doing that. Today, we just ran those 22 turnovers, let them see it. I thought about 16 of them were totally unforced. It was all our doing. You can’t do this in this league and win.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
I think this is why I get so frustrated during game threads..
I don’t care if we lose because another team has more talent. I expect those losses. What kills me is when we make ridiculous turnovers, make really dumb decisions on offense and defense and when Adelman makes marked rotation blunders. I don’t like losing games if it can be prevented, and I am tired of certain players making the same mistakes over and over again.
It's certainly nothing new, though, and if it's Pekovic doing it he's hardly the whole story.
Last year the Wolves were in a dead heat for the worst, higher Turnover % in the league. (The Clippers edged us out.)
This year we’re 8th worst in the league in that stat.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
(higher-->highest)
Typing.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
We just need better players
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 12, 2012 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
THANK you!
this team hasn’t protected the ball ALL year—def NOT pek’s fault. if anything, darko protects the ball on offense worse than pek.
oceanary- beautiful article, but a very weird point to try to pigeonhole in there!
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Feb 12, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Wolves TOs and Pek
Had 28 turnovers on Friday and 22 turnovers last night, so those numbers you list are a little off. But, I’m pretty sure that without Pek starting the last five games our record would be 11-18 and the interest in this team would be starting to wane. So I’m not sure where comments picking on Pek’s turnovers come from. I can’t give much credit to Tyson Chandler when the guy he guards shoots 90%. Iman Shumpert, Steve Novak and Landry Fields shot a combined 22-32 last night. So it is all about the wings. I don’t know whether Shumpert follows plays or not, but he kicked the hell out of us last night.
Maybe we should play Derrick Williams starter minutes at SF and just live with it. I know he’s not good at guarding banana sandwiches, but neither are the the other guys we play at the wings. At least Williams sports a .06 WS/48 and a PER over 10.
(Whoop. I'm looking at BBRef.com.)
Maybe they weren’t up-to-date or something. Huh, no…. They’ve got those numbers for the last two games. Weird.
(The obvious player to point to with the last handful of games is Barea, isn’t it? He’s rusty, he’s had bad games, he’s put up TO numbers, he’s always handling, and given our wing situation he and Ridnour are kinda sorta out of position much of the time….)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
The consensus in my row last night
Was that Barea and Beasley are essentially producing the same at this point and making as many stupid plays as the other. They are boom or bust on any given play.
On the turnover numbers, I took them off the box scores from NBA.COM and confirmed last night’s game in the newspaper box score. The big number from last night is not so much the turnovers (NY had 20) but that NY scored 29 points off our 23 turnovers, and we only managed 16 points off their 20. That’s pathetic.
How exactly does Peck starting...
How exactly does Peck starting cause others to turn the ball over?
There may be a correlation to him starting and turnovers but he is not the biggest offender on turnovers.
There is also a correlation with the muskie jerseys and losing. I mention this because that would be a dumb reason for the loss — but there is a correlation.
And as far as TOs go in the last game the winners had almost as much as the losers. And Linsanity was the biggest offender and they won. 19 turnovers on the Knicks. I think people forget this.
Start complaining about non contributors like Johnson with1 TO, 1 Rebound, 0 for everything else.
Pek turnovers
Typically occur when he gets the ball off the rebound or pass and brings the ball down to waist-level. There seems to be a recent reduction in moving pick violations.
It reminds me of Beas when he insisted on driving the ball into traffic only to have it blocked.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Peck is the problem????????
Peck is the reason we’ve won the games we did in the last week or two. Do you really want Darkco to start again?
Please don’t pretend that all of the wolves including love didn’t contribute to the turnover issue in the last 5 games.
Turnover average for NBA
Thunder 16.6
Wolves 15.9
Nuggets 15.8
Knicks 15.6
Cavaliers 15.4
Seems to me 15-16 is acceptable There are a lot of teams that have 15 TO per game.
Remember the Thunder have the best record in the league and they currently are beating the wolves in turnovers.
I’m tired of people trying to pretend the turnovers is one person. Its all of the wolves.
For every other game I've tried to just go scalp for $20, I've had success.
Until last night. Holey cow, there were a ton of people there. No tickets on the street other than SRO for … $35!?!?
It was crazy, I haven’t seen that type of .. response? really ever. The asian presence at the game was huge. And the part that struck me was that of the “lin-fans” around me there was pretty much only cheering for the wolves.
Too bad the wolves couldn’t have put up a better game considering the attention.
Yeah, that 4th quarter was unwatchable
Just terrible basketball by both teams during stretches. I feel bad for all the folks who came out to watch that garbage. Even Lin played poorly in the 2nd half.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 12, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
what was unwatchable was the fouls not called when we were in bonus.
The knicks just get in penalty and no fouls happened my butt.
Lin actually had the most turnovers in the game.
Refs were bad on both ends
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 13, 2012 8:22 AM CST up reply actions
Last night's game was incredibly frustrating...
They just gave that game away, Barea seemed to be in there too long and Pek seemed to not play enough at least in the fourth quarter. I’m really not a fan of the three pgs out there together because it seems that one of them is always matched up with someone much bigger and they always get exploited(though I guess you could say the same thing with Ridnour starting at sg).
I also don’t understand why Randolph and Williams aren’t getting more minutes and in Randolph’s case why he isn’t getting minutes at all, I also can’t wait for the day when Wes stops getting any minutes hopefully that day comes soon.
High post action
I don’t have stats to back this up, but it seems like we rarely get good action out of these high post sets (a hallmark of Adelman’s offense traditionally), whereby one of our guards feeds it to a big at the elbow of the lane (or beyond). I’m not sure I’ve seen one successful back door cut play, other than a couple Brad Miller executed in one of his brief stints. And neither Love or Pekovic are very good at converting jumpers from that distance or putting it on the floor. And Williams flat out looks lost whenever he gets it in that position, usually hesitating for a couple of seconds only to kick it back out to a guard.
Either Adelman doesn’t have the right personnel for this and/or he hasn’t had enough time to work on it in practice. The bottom line is I rarely see anything positive come out of it, which unfortunately reminds me of another forlorn offense that makes generous use of the high post and which shall not be named….
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 12, 2012 2:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Great Article Oceanary!
I’m an AA from San Diego and a long time CH lurker. I must commend you for writing a great article that really explains to everyone who may not understand why J Lin is such an inspiring figure to the Asian American community.
Now this seems an honest portrayal of Asian-Americana
Good stuff. I did not like the “soft bigotry of low expectations” article written by the other guy, who mistook a whole bunch of non-Asian characteristics of Lin for him simply being Asian. It was supposedly this “bigotry” when the announcers in the video said Lin looked and must be really tired, not because he’d been riding the bench alll season, had played the whole second half, and actually looked spent. It was supposedly this “bigotry” that caused surprise that he was taking over an NBA game, not that he was undrafted, unheard of nationally, and had been sitting on the bench all year.
Not that I don’t think the bigotry exists. I do. I’ve seen it. That writer just applies it where it doesn’t apply. The “bigotry” he speaks of with regard to Asians and basketball is actually that towards any player who undrafted, unheard of nationally, and had been sitting on the bench all year, and especially, if we’re getting into physical characteristics, non-black. Black players 5’10" and over might not get as MUCH surprise thrown their way if they’re in the same situation. In my opinion the hoopla from the Asian community just enhances the notion that the surprise is greater than it is. But I think it’s normal surprise (not normal excitement generated) for any non-black guy in that situation. The soft bigotry he speaks of may apply, but not due specifically because he is Asian as opposed to Eurasian or, more commonly, of western Euro descent….or any other non-black. There’s more a soft bigotry of high expections for blacks when it comes to basketball than there is anything specifically toward Asians (and BB).
So that left a bad taste in my mouth. Oceanary comes along and cures that. As a tall, white American male who appreciates all the advantages these characteristics have brought my way, I want others similar to me to recognize our inherent advantage. It doesn’t help when someone not thusly advantaged cries foul where it doesn’t exist. That is my take on (Dalrymple’s?) article.
Thank you, Oceanary, for a well-written piece that should affect at least a few in a positive way.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
You want other tall, white males to recognize that we are advantaged because of our tall male whiteness
I guess you haven’t heard of affirmative action or race/gender quotas
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
Heh
What I’ve heard is constant bitching about them.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
And victimization
You can't...dust...for vomit.
People tend to do that when government mandates preferences against them
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
Some people tend to do that when government does anything at all. :-)
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 12, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn those anarchists
haha
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
Sorry to be trite
But often times govt has to artificially make “fairer” what otherwise wouldn’t be fair. If there weren’t issues to begin with, it wouldn’t be involved. We created an entity for this express purpose, among others, and now we act as it it’s the evil enemy. I swear it’s just an excuse so people can blame something for failing to live up to the (possibly unrealistic) expectations instilled in them from birth.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Feb 12, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
And I'll let it go now
Since I’ll only get myself in more trouble!!!
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Yeah I definitely don't have issues with Affirmative Action so I "can blame something for failing to live up to the (possibly unrealistic) expectations instilled in me from birth."
Honestly, that is kind of an odd statement and I’m not sure what to make of it.
I don’t think you will get in trouble for having an opinion or a disagreement.
A free exchange of ideas is always a good think in my opinion
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
Yeah, I've got opinions on the matter
That are good for a beer discussion…this probably isn’t the place (I’m working and a bit disjointed).
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Opinions are good to have
I’m a big fan of beer-discussions as well.
I understand the disjointedness, I’ve got a bit of PTSD and it certainly doesn’t help my focus and/or temperament.
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
Where we need....
…. affirmative action the most is in gov’t. Sure, we have a president that’s part black, but Washington DC is primarily a rich white guy club. There is hardly proportional representation when you consider women make up half the country or that 1 in 8 is either black or latino. Affirmative action is a flawed band-aid that doesn’t address the root of the problem, but it’s better than nothing.
Correction: 1 in 4
Roughly 15% black and 15% latino.
Preferential contract awarding or incentivzation for racial quotas is kinda wact.
If it made a difference that would be one thing, but it’s just used at this point (from my experience) to allow contractors another avenue to cheat.
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE
Dude, I respect your military service, etc. but respect the fact that I’ve written over 7,000 resumes and there just ain’t no such thing as reverse hiring discrimination. What happens is that either the employer’s past racist hiring policies have led the government to step in, or, and this is far more common, a manager will promote or hire a minority and then they’ll lie to a white applicant and use “the government made me” as an excuse instead of looking the guy in the eye and saying, “no, YOU were not the most qualified applicant.”
Fox News whines about this stuff, but good luck finding a white man who would have gotten the job had not the government stepped in. That’s a nasty racist myth invented by nasty racist people who’ve repeated the lie so many times that decent people have picked up on it. Again, I’ve written over 7,000 resumes and absolutely unequivocably NO ONE HAS A BETTER SHOT AT GETTING THE JOB THAN A WHITE MALE. Period. Check the unemployment stats by race if you doubt me.
And, if you can’t get the job you want when you get out, contact me. I write excellent resumes working from DD214s.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
I should probably also mention
that my tolerance for anything race related is about zero right now. I’ve been in a comments war over at the Pioneer Press over that Confederate flag a West St Paul city councilman has on his back deck.
But I would sincerely ask everyone who thinks there is proactive hiring of minorities in this country to think really hard and try to come up with an example from your personal life. This country is very weird about race. We were getting better but then certain folks started stirring things back up because nothing gets white guys madder than thinking someone else is getting a break they (the white guys) aren’t getting. The stories you hear are told by liars on tv and the radio, and they get repeated and it creates a fantasy that has no basis in the real world.
So yeah, a lot of people talk about this stuff, and they’ll throw a narrow and misleading stat or two at you, but the truth is white men get all the best jobs in the United States. And no, Obama’s not indicative of squat because being President is a shitty job if ever there was one.
Sorry to get so ranty all the time but if you read those comments at the PiPress, you’ll see why I get so angry. Racism should be done by now and I’m really pissed that it’s actually regaining lost ground.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
The comments at newspaper websites
are almost as bad as at YouTube.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 13, 2012 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
We make a serious mistake when we assume "progress" is occurring over time in some sort of gradual line.
“Reconstruction” ended in this country because people who amounted to the American Taliban undertook a campaign of political terror across the American South, and they basically won. Post-Civil-War race relations in this country hit their nadir somewhere around the Wilson administration.
Women don’t have the right to vote just because it makes sense and is right. People stuck out their necks for that. Other people fought it. Stuff changed over time. New Jersey had women voting right after the revolution, but that got taken away in 1807. After the Civil War women’s suffrage in Utah got all tangled up in the issue of polygamy. It was a mess. Wrong turns were made. The line doesn’t just trend upward.
Things don’t gradually improve because we have an awesome constitution, or something; they improve because people who believe in the ideals of that document go out and struggle to make things better. That doesn’t happen in some sort of creeping progress over time. People wring progress from the culture, and from the Constitution. Other people fight like anything to keep it from happening. I think when people assume stuff just gets better over time, they’re losing sight of that. Then we become a nation of sleepwalkers through history, imagining stuff about the past that’s just not true at all. And then, that’s when people start hanging Confederate flags in their back yards.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
by feral on Feb 14, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
To me the problem is
White people try so hard not to be racist that they are actually being more racist. That may sound confusing but here’s an example, I told someone “that’s ghetto” and the white person looks at me and signals that I can’t say that because there is a black guy near by. Now when I said that it had nothing to do with race at all but the person’s attempt at not being racist actually was more racist because that person connected ghetto to black.
No personal examples but I’m sure there’s a handful of jobs out there that end up going to minorities due to rules/regulations when there’s a slightly more qualified non minority out there. But similar to the above example I feel its racist to make rules about hiring minorities because it assumes minorities are less qualified, not equal to non minorities, and need assistance getting hired.
I hear what you're saying
but I think you’re saying more than you think. Some words take on additional meanings that cannot be overcome by couching them ironically or facetiously. “Ghetto”? C’mon. That’s clearly a reference to poor people of color unless you’re talking to an 80-year-old Jew from Eastern Europe. The white equivalent to ghetto is trailer trash which is rarely used in a non-white context.
But I don’t think either term speaks to racism quite as much as they do the enormous class divides in this country, divisions that are growing daily. That’s the whole bottom line to racism. Racism exists because some of the rich maintain their wealth by screwing everyone else, so they buy newspapers and television stations to be sure that poor whites know that their jobs were stolen by minorities or immigrants or “illegals.” It’s how the plantation owners survived the fall of the Confederacy. They created Jim Crow to punish the former slaves for their masters’ crimes.
Karl Marx wrote a book about it, and some serious conservative scholars are finally waking up to the prescience of some of Marx’s writings. Capitalism, left to its own devices, will eat the middle class. But that’s OK because once you’re in the bottom class, you can be ironic all day and no one cares.
And yes, when I was in college I used to say n*gger once in a while, but always ironically. After a while I figured out that not everyone was laughing with me. It’s not enough that you know what you’re saying. Your conversational grade depends on your speaking in such a way that everyone listening hears what you mean. Not always the same thing.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Not a chance
I will give you that ghetto generally refers to poorer people but it has nothing to do with race. During high school there were plenty of ghetto white people as well as plenty of non ghetto black people. You can try to argue there’s a larger percentage of ghetto black people but the point is there are also white people who the term is applied to, therefor the term has no racial meaning.
I wouldn’t go as far jobs were stolen by minorities but there are definitely cases where whites don’t have the same opportunities as minorities due to them being white. I haven’t had a personal experience with this but just recently on the bus I overheard 2 black guys talking (1 was unemployed) the other was telling him about jobs that were only hiring minorities or mainly hiring minorities.
The N word is a tough one, n!gger is always bad but n!gga not so much. The real problem with that word is you don’t know who you can or cannot say it to because some get offended by it.
Don't mistake the meaning of a word
with how others hear it. [look up “niggardly” online to see what I mean] Ghetto means black or latino, period. Black people live in trailer parks too, but the term “trailer trash” means white. To YOU the word ghetto may be free of any racial meaning, but you don’t seem to have a well developed ear for how others hear your words.
the other was telling him about jobs that were only hiring minorities or mainly hiring minorities
There is no such thing as employers who only hire minorities. They may have been discussing a job-training program, or possibly a light rail construction job (minority contractor rules which, ironically, do not guarantee minorities jobs unless they’re the owner of the business which can otherwise be all-white). Just curious, you sure they weren’t discussing employers that would hire minorities? as opposed to employers that only hire minorities?
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
That's kind of my point
If I say something that has nothing to do with race but they somehow make it into a racial thing that is their fault and has nothing to do with my ear for how others hear what I’m saying. There is no way ghetto means black or latino period, here’s the first definition I found: noting something that is considered to be unrefined, low-class, cheap, or inferior: Her furniture is so ghetto! (although I like the urban dictionary one better: of or relating to (inner) city life). You will notice there was no mention of race in either of those definitions.
I’m not trying to argue with you on the 2nd part so I don’t want to get into it too much because I don’t have any proof of it and who know if they even knew exactly what they were talking about. It wasn’t just someone willing to hire minorities, they said they were specifically looking at hiring minorities.
Sincerely
and I’m not saying this out of any animosity, but if you continue to rely on dictionaries instead of people’s reactions to the words you use, you’re almost certain to get punched in the nose one of these days.
And you’ll probably be right and the other guy will probably go to jail, but you’ll still have a broken nose.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
"The N word is a tough one, n!gger is always bad but n!gga not so much. The real problem with that word is you don’t know who you can or cannot say it to because some get offended by it."
It seems to me that the real point is that it’s an easy word to not say. There’s no situation that demands that the word be used, so it’s easily avoidable. Once you’re in the habit of not saying it you never again have to worry about when and where it’s permissible to say it.
In the most objective sense, the use of the word can unnecessarily complicate communications. Why bother?
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 15, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
Nice write up, Oceanry
I have associates in Seoul. My older brother (RIP, killed in a terrorist bombing in 1995) served on the DMZ when things were hot and he sent me an Army tank jacket that we have in our locker with a South Korea map on the back.
The Knicks have been in turmoil all season. They pegged their future on Melo ($$$) and Am’are ($$$) and got Tyson for good measure, but they were extremely lost and floundering. Two weeks ago., the idea of firing their coach was certainly in play. So, Jeremy Lin is more than a feel-good story of a rags to likely riches NBA player. The real story is found gold.
Yes the sports media are sickening with their man-crush. But they build players up so they can tear them down. More than anything, they like an easy story line and the Lin story writes itself.
They did the same thing to Iman Schubert (sp). However Iman was injured and had the typical lull in performance, so the Lin story easily fell into place.
I am more interested in the respect given to Rubio, Love and Pek by fellow players and certain former players. Rest assured, DMC, Chandler, et al know all about Pek.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
Sorry about your brother Flagrant
Armor Scout (tanks recon) was my first choice for Army jobs when I joined up before I ended up Infantry. I have been to South Korea, including the DMZ and of all the foreign troops I have trained with, South Koreans were the most friendly and polite.
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
I completely agree
and a belated thank you for your selfless service.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
This was an excellent read (as per usual from Oceanary)
I’d like to thank you for giving me a fresh perspective on Lin and the Asian community.
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
Speaking of which
Oceanary, where have you been?
You can't...dust...for vomit.
I was wondering that myself
We have been the poorer for his absence
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
It's time to run Thrilla out on the wing
I don’t care if he isn’t a true small forward. He can play offensive basketball on the perimeter and is a much better player in much less playing time than the other options we have been running out there.
He might get burnt defensively every now and then but it isn’t like Wes is exactly locking the door down himself. Just do it, live with the complications that might come but he needs consistent playing time and we need to put our best players on the floor together even if it’s kind of weird.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
On that Bandwagon
If we can run guys like Luke Ridnour and JJ Barea routinely at SG (and even SF for Ridnour last night), there’s no excuse not to run DWill at SF. RA’s treatment of DWill reminds me a little like of KR’s treatment of KLove during KR’ first season. In essense, KLove was a potential all-star who KR treated and played like an ordinary rotation player. DWill at this point is a decent rotation player who RA treats and plays like a bench warmer. There are 96 minutes per game at PF and SF, and I think its time to invest almost all that time in Love, Williams and Beasley.
good points, exept...
…Love’s production starting maybe 1/3 of the way through his rookie year was really really strong per 36 minutes and Rambis simply wasn’t playing him. I agree that DWill needs more time in the lineup, but he really doesn’t look that good when he’s out there. it’s not nearly as cut-and-dried as the Love-playing-time-problem was a few years back.
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Feb 12, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
There is a difference....
Rambis was playing players that had no business playing ahead of Love, i.e. Ryan Hollins, will Ridnour is playing out of position he is still producing at a higher level this season than DWill. I really don’t like playing three pgs, especially when Barea dominates the ball and turns it over quite a bit but I have more of an issue with Wes still getting minutes and Randolph getting no minutes when his numbers on the season are better than DWill, Beas, Tolliver, and Wes.
It is great
I think it is great that Jeremy Lin is bringing folks closer to the NBA whom might not otherwise be able to associate with the NBA. Asian becomes a catch all just like many folks cheered a guy like Steve Nash because he was white. He was from Canada through South Africa I believe. My kids are half Korean- but are mainly seen as asian- and see themselves as asian. Just like Tiger Woods and Hines Ward are often seen as African American. Super Bowl MVP Hines Ward is half Korean, and Woods is half Tai (I believe).
My Mothers maiden name was Pavlovic- so when one showed up in the NBA, I was thrilled. I associate with Rubio as a white point guard- although he is Spanish.
Lin is probably bringing some Harvard and Ivy league alumni to games as well. I hope he can keep it up- and am upset I did not pick him up in in my fantasy league.
Tiger is a big ol' mix of different ethnic groups
[Woods’ father] Earl, a retired lieutenant colonel and Vietnam War veteran, was of mixed African American, Chinese, and Native American ancestry. Kultida (née Punsawad), originally from Thailand (where Earl had met her on a tour of duty in 1968), is of mixed Thai, Chinese, and Dutch ancestry. This makes Woods himself half Asian (one-quarter Chinese and one-quarter Thai), one-quarter African American, one-eighth Native American, and one-eighth Dutch. He refers to his ethnic make-up as “Cablinasian” (a syllabic abbreviation he coined from Caucasian, Black, American Indian, and Asian).
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Great write up Oceanary
one of the best posts I’ve read on CH, ever. Made me think of all my Chinese-American, Adopted-Korean-American, Japanese student-visa homeboys/girls from back in college. Pretty much your whole post reminds me of conversations with them as they (we) grew into young adults and tried to disentangle the historical, cultural, racial, ethnic, and personal threads that make up identity.
As long as Linsanity trancends sports and makes people connnect to one another, I hope it never ends
by Los Lobos Del Bosque on Feb 13, 2012 12:08 AM CST reply actions
what game were you watching?
Last I checked Linsanity had the most turnovers in the game and both the Knicks and the wolves were sloppy.
It was Barea that had the most turnovers on the wolves. Think about that next time you want him to start.
And our weakness is not Pekovic even though he had 4 turnovers. He at least contributed. Even Beasley contributed. It was Johnson.
If Adleman wants me to start giving him credit for coaching he will bench Johnson.
Lin was big even before this run
The only difference now is the media is covering him more. I am not Asian but I am friends with many in college and even while he was barely playing with the warriors he was popular with them. The day after this happened everyone was talking about it and it was the first time I discovered Jeremy Lin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9y42bg3o0o&feature=fvsr
by Gophers12 on Feb 13, 2012 8:40 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I loved it the third or fourth time,
when they sped up the voice with the video and got Chipmunk color commentary!
(Do sports add to our national conversation about race, or exemplify our faults in that area?…. Yes. The answer is “yes.”)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
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