I refuse to question Adelman's moves (w/poll)
We had 3 great individual performances last night. The rest of the team was horrorshow, and not in the Clockwork Orange sense.
I hear the calls by CHers to bench Wes, etc. but I can't find anybody on the roster who I want getting significantly more minutes at 2 or 3. I don't want to see much more of Wayne. I trust that RA has reasons for not playing Beasley more in games like last night. Webster clearly isn't ready for significant burn.
I am flummoxed as to why we didn't see more of Pek in the 4th last night, but I am posting today to suggest that the time has not come for pitchforks and torches.
Question: Is He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named still ostensibly the one who works the phones and potentially pulls the trigger on trades, etc.? If so, I think that Adelman's decisions to play Wes for extended minutes (and other such moves) might represent nothing less than Adelman putting some heat on the POBO: in effect, saying: "You see what I have to work with here? I can't make chicken salad out of chicken droppings." I'm not saying that Adelman would ever tank a game, but he surely knows how important it is for this roster to improve.
Proposal: Most of us have an overwhelming abundance of respect for Adelman as a coach. In a world of basketball Wise Guys and Made Men, Adelman is a Godfather, a Don. Accordingly, I think we fans owe him a certain measure of respect and trust in his basketball wisdom. I would like to suggest we, as a community, do our best to refrain from abusing his name or his basketball decisions, even in the heat of the game. Are you with me?
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ANYONE is open to criticism
As long as its worthy criticism. Guys like Adelman and others get more of a pass then guys like Kahn because they are proven entities, and what they do works far more often then it doesn’t.
Belicheck certainly deserves all the praise in bringing to the Patriots what he has over the past decade. But that doesn’t mean he isn’t able to be criticized, much like he was over his call to let Manningham beat them on that final drive instead of Cruz/Hicks. Right idea on paper, but the move clearly backfired.
Adelman’s got a long track record of success, and he’s already instilled some here, with likely more to come. But his success rate isn’t 100%, just like anybody, and deserves the criticism when rightly justified.
As for last night, it was probably match up problems. Adelman probably figured with all the turnovers that were plaguing the team, having Ricky, Love and Pek on the court wasn’t going to stop the bleeding there. Running 3 PGs theoretically would improve the ballhandling, but it never really manifested itself when we could hold onto the ball or shoot in that dreadful 11 pt 4th quarter.
I like your nurses uniform guy. ...They're OR scrubs. Oh are they?
Belichick should be criticized for poor drafting and putting together a roster that requires a tiny wide receiver to play defense, not for a sound defensive strategy.
by Ray Williams? on Feb 12, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
I voted No
the the wording of the answer choices but would have voted yes to the question had it stood on it’s own.
I feel like Adelman isnt using Beasley properly, Beas is a 45% 3-pt shooter and they hardly run plays for him to get open shots
i know the offense runs through Love but Beasley should be the #2 option regardless , Beasley started the season playing like crap but at least he’s improved. What the hell has Wes johnson done to earn his starting spot?
Beasley is a 36% career 3-point shooter
that just had 4 consecutive good 3-point shooting games(all 50% or better) that increased his season percentage from .375 to .457. The quick jump has a lot to do with small sample size in this season. In his 2nd season, he shot about as well as Wes Johnson. While Beasley appears to be shooting a little better from 3 this season, I think it is a somewhat of stretch to say Beasley IS a 45% 3-pt shooter. He certainly doesn’t appear to be a classic 45% 3-point guy for which you would typically run plays. I suppose one could debate that, but he never has finished a season above 40.8% and that was his rookie year.
To your other point, Beasley’s scoring off the bench is valuable and his defense is awful. I’m not saying Wes deserves to start, but I believe those are the reasons Beasley doesn’t start. If you get off to a slow start and the only bench players are Wes, Barea, Randolph, Webster, Ellington, Darko(or Miller) and Derrick Williams, you probably aren’t going to make up a lot of ground in a hurry. Beasley can score in bunches(especially against backups) and the 6th man role seems well-suited to his type of game. You can make good arguments for Ridnour or Wes not starting, but I think Beasley is a better 6th man than starter for this team. Jason Terry is one of the top 5 players on Dallas, but he embraces his role coming off the bench and is pivotal in a lot of their wins. I would also argue that Pekovic should be the #1 or #2 option early in games(and late in games you are winning) since he scores efficiently and can get the opposing big men in foul trouble.
by Imyourhuckleberry on Feb 13, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone is open to criticism
3 guard lineup with 9 minutes to play, no, Pek, you have to be able to criticize that. RA is worlds better than Rambis but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t make mistakes. That’s not to say everyone on here is always right either, and I’m sure he knows more than all of us (obviously, he’s the coach). That doesn’t mean it isn’t fair to criticize, though
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
Sorry, I don't have time for unqualified criticism
I don’t know the game well enough to second guess this coach, and I tend ignore comments from folks who’re always looking to trade half the team for a questionable shooting guard.
Freedom of speech ≠ obligatory opinions
It’s great when comments add to my understanding of the game, and most of the comments here do just that. But some of the comments border on hate speech and I will go to my grave thinking that some of our “headcase” players do check out these threads, and what they read does not help their confidence. Or am I the only CHer who’s noticed that our Wolves play better on the road than they do at home?
The point of being a fan is to cheer for your team. Everything else is just politics and sports fandom, like the rest of America, has decided that everyone must have an opinion, and some days it seems like the less well informed, the better.
You trust your coach or you agitate for a new one. You don’t second guess your coach. That’s what Vikings fans do, and no, outside of talk radio, I don’t know of a whinier bunch of second guessers on this planet.
I’d rather be a homer than a complainer. Frustration needs to be vented, but I think we have far less cause for frustration this year than we’ve had in years past.
Go Wolves!
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
It's interesting that you invoked Vikings fans
It’s a dynamic that’s been in the back of my head for a while now. This morning, I’ve read “Bite me, Adelman” and “Adelman fucked up” among many other colorful responses on various threads.
I’ve lived in places where the fan base supports a coach through tough times and others where things turn real ugly real quick. I hope things don’t continue to get ugly here on CH, especially because we have the best coach in franchise history, and probably the best coach we’ll ever have.
ya I wrote bite me,
But then realized my venting had no shade of mediating humor, when in my mind there is some. Thus, I added the jerk store comment to follow…not exactly poetry, but oh well.
I do think ra takes some of the hear for the loss. Yes, we shot poorly, but it did not seem he was willing to go with who was producing against nyc. He seems unnecessarily stubborn on some decisions.
Still, I don’t intend to just yell out some dig on him in the future.. Comments should have some insight or meaning to be posted, or it is not worth posting them. That loss was awful though!
It was a tough loss
FYI, I wasn’t trying to call anybody out. I’m just curious about the tone that follows a tough loss like this one. Sounds like you have the same question in mind. Cheers.
I tend to agree with what you have written here
with one caveat. I find that the crazy trades are one of the things that makes the NBA fun. I love all the player movement in the league and count the NBA offseason as one of my favorite sports (part of what made this lockout summer such a bummer). I agree that many of the proposed trades are not necessarily favorable but the speculation, for me at least, is usually fun as long as the trade seem at least slightly plausible.
Freedom of speech ≠ obligatory opinions
but how to be a sports fan properly is also just an opinion… ergo I’m going to continue to suggest very strongly that Wes Johnson should see less playing time and Pek should play in the 4th quarter.
Of course you should be able to question the coach
It is the same thing as questioning the moves of a President.
You dont just support everything a coach does just because he runs the team that you root for. If he fucked up, he fucked up. I wouldn’t mind if Adelman put Luke and Wes for a couple games to experiment, but clearly the experiment is not working so he needs to start trying to put new people in there.
As Pek got a lot more minutes and showed up when Darko got hurt, Adelman needs to give other people who havent played consistent minutes more time to truly see what they can do. Luke and Wes have showed as much as they can, and the results aren’t good. I fully expect Adelman to switch the starters next game to be honest.
Perhaps the question was not worded well
Your freedom to question the coach wasn’t meant to be called into question.
Do we “owe him a certain measure of respect and trust in his basketball wisdom.”
And do we (as the CH community) end up looking like jackasses when we “question his basketball acumen.”
I for one
know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this man knows a country mile more about basketball than anyone who posts on this site. He also has access to insider information that we do not have. For example, Martell is coming off of back surgery for a chronic problem (!!) Do we really know how much burn he is ready to get or can we defer to Adelman on that one?
The question is intended to ask what measure of trust this fanbase is willing to give a big-time coach. Obviously, different individuals have different responses to this.
I mean of course fans can have opinions
If everyone was just happy and no one ever complained or discussed anything, what would this site be?
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 12, 2012 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
Me. Yelling "PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKK!"
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 12, 2012 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
True.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 12, 2012 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
It doesn't take a master chef
to know when the toast is burnt.
Adelman is a fine coach. But we are fans, so here goes an opinion.
Kevin Love is still an All-Star. The starters from the previous two years (outside of Love) did not show anything special.
The starting lineup should be: Pek, Love, Williams, Rubio and Barea.
2nd team: Tolliver, Beasley, Wes, Wayne & Luke.
The rest fill in when there are blowouts or injuries.
Also, this is the third season we have seen Darko. For Darko to be that winded constantly has to be some type of medical condition. I think it needs to be checked out further.
Wes doesn't deserve to be second string
Basketball coaches also rarely run full line changes like they do in hockey so I would start Pek/Love/Webster/Ridnour/Rubio. I would make Beas our 6th man instant offense type, I would be quick to sub Ellington for Ridnour when we need more defense at the 2, make DWill the backup at the 3 and 4 to get him more minutes and be open to playing Darko when we need a good defender on a 4 or 5; conversely playign Love at the 5 is ok too.
Which is kind of confusing from the coach
Wes starts every game he is healthy. From what I read on this blog, many or most agree with you on Wes. Ridnour can shoot sometimes. But a lot of the time I am puzzled about the way he plays. I haven’t seen enough good play from Webster to see him start. I agree about Beasley. Wayne at times can play well. I’d like to see Williams start every game and play a bunch of minutes. I think Williams brings something to the court and his history as a basketball player has been as a worker. Combine that with Love, Rubio, Pek and Barea and I think you will have some winning basketball out on the court.
by WeDraftedPooh on Feb 13, 2012 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
We can question his moves
But they aren’t worth criticizing right now. We are forced to play 3 PGs at times which is killing us. We have to make a trade, sign someone, call someone up, or something. This team has some solid foundations pieces but the plumbing needs fixing still and the roof is collapsing a bit. We need someone to play wing.
by Doug West Domination!!! on Feb 12, 2012 3:50 PM CST reply actions
no He’s not forced to play 3 pg’s. It’s his choice. He can have Martell or Dwill in there. Much better defensively.
Tue ill give you that he does have the choice
as long as we continue that lineup we will not win many games.
by Doug West Domination!!! on Feb 12, 2012 8:21 PM CST up reply actions
I have no problem questioning a coach.
Overall I’m very pleased with what Adelman has done, and I know he’s handcuffed by an imbalanced/undertalent roster. But I think our 11 point 4th quarter had a lot to do with his decisions.
Pek sat the first 10 minutes. Of a game where he was 9/10 from the field and NY had little defense for him.
Almost 8 minutes of the Rubio/Luke/Barea trio.
Most of the quarter was Love/Beasley/Luke/Barea/Rubio. With Pek replacing Beasley with 2:30 left, and Ellington replacing Barea for most of the final minute+.
It's okay to admit that comments like above are
a little on the hyperbolic side
What does Wes have on him?
I could see starting Wes for a while, trying to build his confidence. Then there were the injury issues. But, now, JJ is back. Martell is back. Beas is back. And, Lee is almost back. Adelman giving Wes 20 mins per gm has single handedly cost us a number of games in my opinion. If he doesn’t completely bench him soon, then, as far as I’m concerned, Adelman is WIDE OPEN to criticism. Wes missing WIDE OPEN shots for almost 30 games is enough. No more excuses.
Adleman has been awesome
that doesn’t mean you can’t criticize him.
He may have cost us a few wins by insisting on playing Wes and Darko. I think not playing Williams is pretty absurd, he may never be a true 3 but he is a better basketball player than Wes and maybe Beasley.
Also he has standards for certain players that don’t seem to be equal with others. I’m sure there is a method to his madness, but there are some games that Beasley has looked good in recently and he’s only played between 18-26 minutes in favor of Tolliver/Wes etc.
He’s a great coach and I’m happy to have, same with Love though….just because we are grateful to have them doesn’t mean they are beyond criticism from time to time.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I'll continue to criticize
when I disagree with what he’s doing. And look at the things Adelman was criticized over. Starting Luke over Ricky? Eventually Adelman gave in and we went on a winning streak. Playing Darko while burying Pek? Pek is now one of our 3 most productive players. I think it’s pretty apparent that Adelman is as befuddled with our wing situation as most of us are (that’s more an indictment of Kahn than Adelman).
I like to pretend I’m a reasonably intelligent basketball mind. I like to pretend most contributors here are reasonably intelligent basketball minds. The funny thing about coaching in sports is there are very few decisions that are crazy like a fox, and vastly more that are simply crazy. By that logic, a group of reasonably intelligent people should be able to point out something stupid when it happens. Adelman is not a dunce like Rambis, but that doesn’t mean he’s infallible. So no, I won’t swallow my opinion when I think he makes an error, and for the sake of developing a majority I would appreciate other intelligent people refusing to sit on their thoughts. But I also expect (and to this point he’s proven) that he’ll figure it out… which is more than I can say about our previous coaches.
I can't wait
to see Darko back. I won’t be surprised if he starts over Pek again.
Adelman is in a rough spot.
Ridnour can´t defend a lot of sg.
Barea can´t defend most sg. Maybe he can get a charge here and there.
Beas is slow and unaware at SF.
Love can´t defend much at either spot but at C it´s field day.
Pek isn´t much of a help defender.
Wes and Darko must play even if they block their teamamtes shots. You can masquerade a below average defender…but the wolves have the whole store.

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