Putting out the Bat Signal for SnP
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 13, 2012 12:31 AM CST
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PrintSnP - Can you share any insight into the current thoughts of the Wolves front office on filling the massive, elephant-in-the-room, space-devouring hole at BOTH wing positions on this team?
82 games shows one view of the positional deficit. Based on PER, the Wolves are OK at PG and C, great at PF, and terrible at SG and SF (as one would expect).
Is the front office really on board with Kahn's ridiculous "Playoffs this season don't really matter" statement? And "We're not really looking at making any moves. Possibly at center." statement?
Is Kahn still in charge? If not, is the guy who is interested in making the moves necessary to push our favorite team forward?
I'm trying to be a bit patient, but I'm running out of self-discipline. I expect to be out-gunned when facing Kobe or Lebron. But Shumpert/Landry? Morrow? Basically any wing with a pulse?
I assume the people that work for the team see the same issues fans do, as plain as day, right?
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The holes transfix you
They are so glaring, so detrimental, so awe-inspiring in their vastness that their magnificence reaches out and spits on the passers-by strolling along 1st Avenue. I can’t believe anybody, including Kahn, could possibly not understand how horrific this situation is. And perhaps that is Adelman’s genius. Perhaps it was possible before that certain powerful entities did not understand how horribly messed up the situation is.
I’ve never completely agreed with SnP’s Kahn view, but I’m almost there. He got Rubio. Every other pick, every other “asset” acquired was a whiff. I think Kahn has some skills. Zero of them have anything to do with the recognition and evaluation of talent, except for Rubio and Adelman, both no-brainers, really. Every draft pick, every acquisition, every other coach or Ronzone he picked up was a whiff. Luke Ridnour, whom we all think needs to be dealt, is the cream of his non-Rubio acquisitions.
This team has three players, a Ridnour, and a Barea. Coincidentally (?) the five guys who appear on the court at the end of games the Wolves are ahead in. He may save his job with Rubio and Adelman and the wheeling and dealing he did to get rid of Rambis, and he may actually be a really good fit in an Adelman personnel team, but he completely screwed the franchised into the ground if not for a top 10 player he didn’t appreciate and the magic of a unicorn.
Hell, yes, everyone at 600 1st Ave. N. knows what the problem is.
In my opinion there has been a very interesting unknown subtext to what is going on, and David Kahn is going to do one of two things he can to save a fraction of face on Wes: 1) let Adelman bury him on the bench as the excitement about the Wolves buries his blunder, or 2) simply acquire a player where he trades Wes’ salary and proclaims the Wes part of the deal to be more than it is, while the Ridnour part is the sole reason the other team did it.
For those who hold out some hope for Wes Johnson, I contend that it isn’t about improving and learning and gaining confidence. The NBA game is simply too fast for him. It can slow down if the other things happen, but I’m not sure it can ever slow down enough.
And that’s just Wes. Every time Beasley hits a shot or gets to the bucket and scores with that really nice touch, I hope a scout is saying “wow.”
The jury being mostly out on Williams and Lee, and with their stata as BPA and 2nd rounder, I am omitting them as part of the thesis here. If I were to guess, I would say that as long as the Wolves stay around .500, there will be a move made to acquire a shooting guard.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Feb 13, 2012 1:58 AM CST reply actions 8 recs
Great reply - you said it better than I
The strange part to me is that for all the ugliness that is our SG position (playing PGs now, Wes earlier), the spot that really kills us PER-wise is small forward. But I suspect playing PGs at the SG spot is having an impact on our team defense.
When you say “Everyone at 600 1st Ave. N. knows what the problem is” – do you have a contact there or just speculating like me? Perhaps I should have put out the Bat Signal for twinstalker? :)
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 13, 2012 8:21 AM CST up reply actions
honestly
it feels like everything is speculation… I don’t really think anyone has inside sources, and even if they do they probably don’t know what Kahn, Adelman or Taylor are actually thinking.
sorry I just had to get that out…I mean no disrespect
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 13, 2012 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
I guess I just don't see it
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 13, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
Lordy no
I don’t have inside info. Anything I ever write is just my opinion and isn’t worth squat. Well, like Wes, I’ll hit on one or two of the dozens of comments I make, but most aren’t worth two cents.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
nah, not really
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 14, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
How about playing a PG at SG impacting our team offense?
The worst part of this particular roster-patch strategy, to me anyway, is the fact that playing Ridnour or Barea at the SG allows the opposing team to put longer, stronger players on Rubio without creating a mismatch. It’s one thing if the Heat want to switch LeBron onto RR to try to neutralize him, because that should theoretically give us an advantage elsewhere on the court. The 2 PG approach, however, actually invites opposing teams to employ the one strategy that teams have found to shut down our offense, to out-physical the team at the PG and PF spots. It is BS that the team does not have the personnel to put a squad on the floor to take advantage of mismatches created by trying to guard Rubio with SGs, or to hit open shots form the wing to take advantage of double teams.
by dropstep on Feb 13, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
So do something about it
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Me personally?
I am pretty sure you wouldn’t like my solutions, so maybe you shouldn’t give me that power.
I don't necessarily like what Kahn does either
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
"Kahn has screwed the franchise in the ground"
http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/group/1
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
To be fair
It was a long sentence. And the part he quoted even came after 2 commas, so he did some work.
This team has three players, a Ridnour, and a Barea. Coincidentally (?) the five guys who appear on the court at the end of games the Wolves are ahead in. He may save his job with Rubio and Adelman and the wheeling and dealing he did to get rid of Rambis, and he may actually be a really good fit in an Adelman personnel team, but he completely screwed the franchised into the ground if not for a top 10 player he didn’t appreciate and the magic of a unicorn.
The magic of a unicorn which KAHN DRAFTED.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
I agree Kahn is not the best GM in the world
but he made 2 no-brainer decisions? He still made them. He gets ripped for the moves he botches, he should get credit for the moves he makes that are good.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
People should get judged by how they handle the difficult scenarios
Not that he didnt blow the simple ones. Saying hes good because he didnt fuck up is an awful way to run an organization. I want a GM that can make hard decisions as well as the simple ones. Hell if all he can do is make the no brainers and majorly screw up the rest anyone with a pulse is pretty much a better solution than Kahn.
I had Kahns back for a while because he didnt dump Rubio when he was getting slammed. But he has really wasted our rebuild to the point where we have 2 good players and a Pek. With Williams as the lone asset and potential 3rd piece. I mean it takes astounding ineptitude to have that many draft picks cap space and the like and end up with almost literally nothing, save 2 players (one with a major question mark). The only good thing I will give him credit for is getting the Rubio pick (but if Rubio didnt somehow fall into our lap he would look even dumber than he does today) and no super terrible contracts. (most are a little long and a tad high but nothing crippling.
As far as I am concerned we should get rid of him, but if we dont than he should be a negotiator at the most. He should never have any input on players from this day forward.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 13, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
5 teams passed on Rubio
and there were multiple teams with better players that needed coaches this off-season.
He gets credit for these two deals
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
edit: 4 teams
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Great
And then what,
No one should get a free pass because he did the obvious. You dont keep a manager around cause the dolt remembered to pay the employees you keep him because he does things most dont see or at least has some ability to do something that a blind monkey wouldnt be able to accomplish.
I really dont see how he should get this free pass for drafting/trading for Rubio (no brainer) and Williams (again no brainer). When he has continually said he said wait for 3 years and we will get it together. Well its been 3 years and he has 2 guys Mchale got, stumbled into Rubio, and Williams who may or may not amount to anything great. That to me is a huge waste of opportunities.
The guys is a shithead plain and simple he couldnt pick up a great BBall player if he only had one to chose from. I am done with him and the sooner he leaves the better.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 13, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
Did I use the word "free pass?"
I’m just a fan of being equal. Guy deserves to get ripped on some moves he has made, but on others he deserves to get some credit
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Fair enough
But if you want to be equal his crap outweighs his gold by about 10 to 1. I mean people obviously give him credit but its not all that deserved. The point is he hasnt really done anything, I dont really believe in the idea of giving someone credit for not screwing up a simple task.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 13, 2012 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
I think Rubio is far from the no brainer
you claim it is.
Otherwise he would have gone no.1….there has always been plenty of doubt surrounding Rubio.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
At number 5
Kahn wasnt drafting at number one.
If you want to argue about players 5 and beyond please I am all ears, on my mock I had him as second best and Rubio seemed to be generally considered top 5 being conservative guess.
Paint it how you like, Kahn blows, and has done little of merit to stick around.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 13, 2012 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
We didn't have the 5th pick until
Kahn traded Foye and Miller for it. We don’t get Rubio at 6. That is a fantastic trade.
I think the problem is that now we can taste the promised land...
…and it makes Wes and Flynn all the more bitter to swallow.
by Django Z on Feb 13, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
With an NBA average player from those two picks (hardly asking for the moon from high lotto picks) Wolves would likely be doing much better.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 13, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Yes
This and Django Z’s.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Yep
I agree.
Still think the man needs to get credit for the moves he made that worked out.
Doesn’t let him off the hook that if he had gone even say Demar Derzoan and Paul George we’d be in a lot better shape (not to mention had he gone Curry/Monroe)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
When people say, "Yep, Rubio was a good get."
Isn’t that his credit?
And then we move on to all the mistakes.
And then we want to move on from all the mistakes…
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Feb 13, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Sure
but WolvesBigTicket a few posts above doesn’t seem to agree with you….and that’s really where the argument is.
What you have stated seems to be fair analysis of Kahn’s tenure in my book
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I disagree to some extent
His credit is that he can accomplish the obvious. Not an astounding attribute from the man in charge.
My point I think your giving him too much credit for simple things and not deriding him enough for the absolute blunders everywhere else. I would be a little less harsh if half of his top draft picks didnt turn out to be completely worthless. Thats not including all of the wasted value everywhere else.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 13, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
I deride him plenty
for his Wes/Flynn picks.
But I mean: Tolliver, Ridnour, Sessions, Pekavic, Barea, Webster these have all been fine acquisitions to their respective extents. I think the worst non-draft move by Kahn was not keeping Delonte West
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
"Tolliver, Ridnour, Sessions, Pekavic, Barea, Webster"
Other than Pek, those moves are “shuffling the deck chairs”. They range from fringe starter to deep rotational player. The league is littered with those guys.
they are all solid role guys though
who would all look even better if they had an actual role to play, which is kinda the issue.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I can see you adamant about this
Well have to agree to disagree. I will not admit that he has been anything other than a failure. I expect more from the guy running the ship and so should you.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 13, 2012 11:34 PM CST up reply actions
Pek was a McHale pick.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 14, 2012 12:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
but Kahn made the decision to sign him to a now favorable contract and bring him over. no one forced him to do that. considering his track record it is even a little surprising since it doesn’t appear Pek is a Kahn guy…..but yet he brought him over and was patient with him while Pek looked pretty out of place for the better part of a year last year
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Sorry
Keep clapping. The reason he went 1st in the 2nd round was because of the contract. His agent said he was coming in that off season. No credit for something that was going to happen regardless.
"Giving credit" to an incompetent is pointless
Do you want rainbow points for that take? Do you want Glen Taylor to share it? Ugh, the guy doesn’t know what he’s doing. How much more do we need to see to get this?
Again though
turning Randye Foye and Mike Miller into Rubio and getting Rick Adleman are not moves that are made by a man who doesn’t know what he’s doing
I could really care less if Kahn sticks around. I wouldn’t mind seeing him go and bringing something else in here. He’s drafted two terrible players…..but the guy has made some okay decisions along the way as well.
this all started with someone claiming that Kahn “buried the Wolves” with his decisions and I just posted a standings thing that showed we were only a game or two out of the playoffs….clearly not buried.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Ugh
Again, what sorts of points do you get when you trade in these split hairs? He doesn’t know what he’s doing. Him hitting the roulette wheel every now and then isn’t something that needs defending or sussing out. He’s probably the best ever example of a broken clock being right twice a day.
So he's lucky
that’s fine with me. When he hits he hits.
I’m not saying he’s a great GM, but he hasn’t exactly buried this franchise either. Many GM’s in the NBA would have broken over the Rubio drama (and have been quoted as such), if that’s all Kahn’s got that’s all he’s got, but we are looking pretty solid right now and Rubio is 1/3 of the reason why.
Also he probably should not be resigned. Has done a pretty poor overall job.
Here’s where I’m confused. In recent months you seem to try and play sympathizer for the McHale regime at least trying to say “he wasn’t that bad” type of deal, justifying a few moves and the direction the franchise was going. I think the exact same thing could be said about Kahn, has gotten lucky on a few moves and once he hired the right people in place it looks more like the franchise is going in the right direction. I think McHale should have been fired and probably think the same thing about Kahn. It’s weird to me the level of vile you have for Kahn while trying to paint this history of McHale that in reality is nothing more than ruining an era with a player that only comes around every 8-12 years.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
That's incredibly well put
this whole post sums up my frustration so incredibly well. Beas, Johnson, Martel (I still hope), Tolliver, Ellington, Ridnour the SG, JJ the shooting guard all clearly have massive weaknesses and a distinct lack of elite skills (for reference Novak or Morrow may be bad wings overall but at least they give you elite 3 point shooting).
You knocked it out of the park
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
by ArchAngel79 on Feb 13, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
By the way
It feels really good to have “holes” in the team, compared to the last couple years when Love was the only thing not resembling a sucking void.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
by twinstalker on Feb 13, 2012 6:53 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
What happened to the other guy that seemed to have a good handle on FO happenings?
I forget his handle, but he went silent right around the time of PDGirl’s infamous run-in….
Just A Fan
I was wondering that the other day. He always had good info but my guess is he was too tied in with the old regime and his sources are gone.
"But this one goes to eleven..."
Last login was today
But I haven’t seen him/her post for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.
JAF – You still there?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 13, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
First Just A Fan,
and now PoorDick. People are disappearing! What’s happening here?
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 14, 2012 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
I'm unsure that this was a good trade.
Without PoorDick’s contributions, my basketball life suffers a lot.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 14, 2012 2:20 AM CST up reply actions
Don't forget biggity2big.
One of my favorite posters ever.
I've mentioned it before
But biggity2bit’s presence can still be felt at A Wolf Among Wolves every now and then. Who knows why some people leave, whether permanently or for extended periods. I know I’ve taken a few long sabbaticals, but none of them are planned. Sometimes you just need to take a few weeks away in order to refresh your enthusiasm for the site.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Someone once said last year
“the sucktitude of our wings” in a sentence referring to our wings. I think that begins to describe it perfectly.
by Doug West Domination!!! on Feb 13, 2012 3:46 PM CST reply actions
FWIW
I have no idea what’s going on over there. Team Adelman is filled with a bunch of cool customers and the same chatty folks who used to chat don’t do so much anymore.
I am fairly confident that Team Adelman has taken the stance that David Kahn doesn’t matter one way or the other. They have enough basketball credibility by simply existing and being employed there that they don’t need to engage in the sorts of office politics that have happened in the past at 600 First Avenue. They can do what they do and Kahn will either be marginalized or be gone.
I think that Adelman has taken the position that this season is going to be played according to Kahn’s rules: wait for the team to “get healthy”, continue to play Darko and Wes, not make a trade for a wing, etc. He’ll end up with wins in the mid-20s and some very obvious things he can point out to Papa Glen concerning Kahn’s abilities. Things should be very clear by then, even to Papa Glen.
Can we set up a fund to get Glen league pass?
so, you know, we don’t have to spend the rest of the season watching bad players…
I’ve had enough years of that already, to be honest.
I just don't get it
this is hopeless
Our owner doesn’t seem to care about having a successful basketball team and our GM is too blind to actually make any moves. I hope that your hope that RA’s staff holds weight is true, but considering Taylor’s run with McHale I’m not confident. God, if one random person from this blog was put up as the GM we would be a freaking dynasty.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 14, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
at one point is this season on Adleman then?
while I am fine with the strategy if it exiles Kahn who has been not a great GM in his run…..but seriously they are costing us wins playing Wes and Darko and sometimes Beasley too much over the first 26 games or so.
with the roster as it stands we could make the playoffs….it seems silly to emphasize a pissing contest over actual wins and losses.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No,
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 14, 2012 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
"with the roster as it stands we could make the playoffs"
I disagree. There is no way this team makes the playoffs with no options at the 2 or 3.
We’re already seeing teams adjusting to how they play us because they know how bad our wings are.
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