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PA 100

Points Added 100" is a metric I have been working on the past couple weeks. PA 100 is an offense only metric that measures how many points a player adds (or subtracts) from a team's production across 100 offensive possessions. I will be outsourcing many of my opinions to this model in the future, so I figure I should present it on Canis Hoopus.

Star-divide

PA 100 uses a priori assumptions about how different statistics translate into points to parcel value among players. All of the statistics used in its construction can be found on HoopData. I had a lot of fun designing the model, and am pretty happy with the product. As you will see, probably the most interesting part of the results are how uninteresting they are. There are not many surprise players poking their head into the top 20. Players rise and fall relative to "general consensus," but more often than not the metric makes NBA decision-makers look much more competent than one like Wins Produced does.

I'm not going to get into the nitty-gritty of the model, but I outline the basic logic and explain the component parts. The key to the model is how it parcels each offensive possession into three stages. 1). Shot creation, 2). shot execution, and 3). possession continuation. I'll discuss each of these stages separately and then argue why the metric's results are worth paying attention to.

Shot creation:

Shots from certain locations and situations are more efficient than others. On average, shots at the rim and from three earn more points than mid-range jumpers, and assisted shots are more effective than unassisted shots. Ideally, teams would only take the highest efficiency shots; however, gaining access to those shots can be very difficult. Shot creation represents the fact that opposing defenses aren't going to sit around at let you take layups all game. There is a reason most teams take 50% of their shots from mid-range. Often that is the only shot you can get. I include shot creation in the model to credit players who help their team get better shots and punish players who do not.

Valuing shot creation, and in particular devaluing its absence, is where this metric most distinguishes itself from popular evaluation metrics. Wins Produced and the related Wins Score metrics give all the benefits of creating a better look to the player who drops in the uncontested layup or open three, while placing the entire cost of failed shot creation on the player who ultimately takes the contested mid-ranger. PER simply gives players credit for any shot with a FG% over 30.4. That certainly gives points to creators, but fails to discriminate between "creators" and "chuckers." Both of these metrics give credit for assists, but neither appreciates the range in assist value, and more importantly, neither controls for the value that an assist passes along to its recipient. Appreciating shot creation (and the lack thereof) improves our understanding of which players make the offense work and improves our ability to parcel team performance among the individual players.

To calculate shot creation, I start with the basic assumption that a team can take an unassisted jumper any time it wants. I call this the "settle." Taking a "settle" shot does not confer any value because it is, on average, the lowest quality shot a player can take. Player's generate increasing value for assisted jumpers, unassisted threes, assisted threes, unassisted shots at the rim, and assisted shots at the rim in that order (note 1: I factor situational expected foul rates into these values; note 2: I also estimate the number of missed assisted shots, or "potential assists," and give players credit for those.) This value is equivalent to the league mean of those shot types minus the league mean value of "settling" (an unassisted jumper). Player values aren't set by actual points scored, but instead are based on how they change the situation and thus improve on "expected points scored." I give all of this value to the player who either gets the look on his own, or makes the pass into the situation. I do not credit pass recipients for shot creation. This is a false simplification, but I think an acceptable one.

Here is a list of the top Shots Created scores at each position in 2011:

43z2q_medium

Not surprisingly, point guards dominate this rating. Offensive creation is the explicit role of point guards, so it would be a concern if they didn't shine here. The first two values show how many expected points each player creates by taking unassisted threes and getting to the rim. The third value "solo.cre" is just a combination of the two ways players can create shots for themselves. The next four lines capture how a player can create expected value by setting up teammates with better looks. Shots at the rim are both higher value and more common than three-point shots, so that is where the most expected value is earned. The "Shots Created" (SC 100) score is the sum of all of the different ways a player can add expected value to an offensive possession minus turn-overs above/below the NBA mean (turnovers are valued as an average possession.) The value indicates the expected points added by that player over 100 possessions. Players like Nash and LeBron who are good at creating opportunities at the rim consistently dominate this score.

Shot execution:

While there is a league average value of shots at the rim, shots from range, and assisted jumpers, the player taking the shot also makes a huge difference. What I am looking for in "shot execution," is a player's ability to transcend the expected value of different types of shots. An unassisted mid-range shot is much more valuable when it comes from Dirk Nowitzki than when it comes from Darko Milicic. This is true for every type of shot. Players who shoot above the expected value on different looks improve their teams point production by either enhancing the value of good shot creation or by dampening the sting of possessions that fail to produce quality shots.

Calculating shot execution is easy. Players have an expected value at each location on the floor based on the percentage or their shots that were assisted and the league-wide expected value of assisted and unassisted shots at that location. For example, a player who takes four shots at the rim every 100 possessions is expected to add about 5 points above the baseline expectation of "settling." I subtract this expected value from the player's actual contribution to find how much value his execution adds at the rim. I do this for each player in each situation and then sum across them to find their "Shot Execution" (SE 100) scores.

Here is a list of the top Shot Execution scores at each position in 2011:

Mxsix_medium

SE 100 is the sum of all of the preceding columns. The first three columns represent how many points these players add by executing from the field at different locations. Note, Dirk's efficiency from mid-range earned the Mavericks 3.4 extra points per 100 possessions last season. This is not something that other metrics are going to capture. The fourth column, ft.exe represents how much value players added by getting to the line and knocking down free throws above expectation. You can see from these numbers that being better at drawing fouls is probably the single best way to generate SE 100 value. I think it is a sad commentary on the state of the NBA, but not a surprising find.

Possession continuation:

Offensive rebounds keep possessions alive and thus allow new opportunities to create and execute shots. Nothing is more disheartening to a defense than forcing a team to take an ugly shot only to have a player reclaim the possession and start the shot creation process over again. Possession continuation (Poss+) value comes solely from offensive rebounds. This is the simplest calculation of the three. For every offensive rebound above or below the league mean, players gain or lose point-value equal to an average possession. I won't bother posting examples of these guys, just go to HoopData and sort by ORR.

Putting it all together.

PA 100 is the summed value of these three sub-metrics.

PA 100 = SC 100 + SE 100 + Poss+ 100

Here is a list of the best and worst offensive players over the last 5 seasons based on PA 100

Knpa7_medium

We get to see a few Wolves players here... unfortunately they are all on the wrong side of the ledger. As I said earlier, the results are extremely boring. The best offensive players are pretty much exactly who everyone thinks they are. LeBron and Howard have their positions locked down, Kobe passed the shooting guard crown to Wade in 09 and Paul and Nash traded off years as the top point guard. Similarly, the worst players are unlikely to draw much debate. They are all players generally considered to be offensively limited.

So why should you take these results seriously? What utility does this metric add?

PA 100 is descriptive:

I multiplied the mean value of a possession by 100 and then added the NBA mean "Shots Created" value five times to set the NBA mean points per 100 possessions. I then summed the value of player possessions for each NBA team and added those values to the expected NBA points per 100. The resulting values retrodict team Offensive Efficiency (pp100) over the past 5 years with an r of 0.95.

Awf05_medium

In addition to describing team performance, the component values in PA 100 make a nice roster construction tool. They make it easy to identify promising passer and finisher pairing, they make skillset dearths and redundancies apparent, and they help decide who to give the ball in different shooting situations for optimal results.

PA 100 is predictive:

PA 100 scores remain relatively stable across time. A player's performance in one season is a pretty solid predictor of his performance in the next season. I still haven't specifically looked at prediction following team changes, nor have I tried improving prediction with age curves, but the initial results are promising.

Among players with at least 2000 possession, PA 100 in one season has a 0.82 correlation with PA 100 in the next season. This isn't a perfect relationship, but I bet controlling for age curves will improve it quite a bit. Looking at the component parts, Shot Creation and Possession Continuation are much more consistent than Shot Execution. There is a .91 year to year correlation in SC 100 and a 0.95 correlation in Poss+ 100. Given that assists and rebounds are very stable across NBA careers this isn't surprising. Shot Execution in one season only has a 0.8 correlation with SE 100 in the following season. These results aren't very surprising. Accuracy is a volatile skill. All shooters are "streaky shooters" to some extent, for the same reason that batting averages in baseball are notoriously difficult to project year to year. Fine grained skills seem to bounce all over the place, but they do tend to stick around a stable central tendency if you give them enough time.

I still haven't tried using summed PA 100 values from the previous year to predict team offensive efficiency in the following year, but it shouldn't be too different from the predictive power of individual PA 100 scores.

Problems?

The biggest problem right now is that I don't have a defensive counterpart to the PA 100 metric. I have a pretty good idea for how I want to construct the defensive model, but I don't have the data. Basically what I hope to do is reconstruct the location data kept on hoopdata for players' defensive matchups. This data is theoretically recoverable from Play-by-Play and matchup data, but I don't currently have the programming chops to pull it off.

Not having a defensive metric is unfortunate, but it should be noted that defensive metrics aren't very good. There seems to be powerful coaching and team effects on defensive that aren't nearly as problematic on the offensive end. I think my planned method will help parcel out a lot of individual contribution to defense, but I don't expect it to give a perfect answer. For now, just remember that this is an offense only metric; steals, blocks, defensive rebounds, and man-defense are not reflected in any way in PA 100. I think it is a good reflection of the value individual players bring on the opponents end of the court, but says absolutely nothing about the other half of the game.

As a conclusion, here are the PA 100 scores for the current NBA season organized by team.

Comment 83 comments  |  16 recs  | 

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this is outstanding vjl100..

I do think it would be complemented by a defensive metric that accounts for the way players influence one another on the court, but I recognize how difficult it can be to develop one. With that said, the addition of a defensive metric would enable you to generate a final metric that assigns a single number to a given player. Regardless, I applaud you on developing the PA100 metric.

One last thing I will say is I’m glad you elected to post this without the underlying computer code. I was going to tell you to remove it, but when I tried to post you already had.

by bsg007 on Feb 13, 2012 1:15 PM CST reply actions  

I post things in from word and can't edit all the...

gibberish out until it is already posted. That is what the code was. I compounded that problem by trying to post the massive table directly into the post, which made it take forever to make any edits.

I will eventually get a defensive version. I know what my values will be already, I just need to data to plug in.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not an expert but

I used to move a lot of information from word to the web and would have the same problem. I was told by the IT dept. at my school to copy/paste to another program like textedit or the windows equivalent, and then to copy/paste to the web.

by landon2112 on Feb 13, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Textpad is a great choice of many IT geeks

Keeps formatting in control, with some special features and color controls. As simple as Notepad, but much easier to read.

Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)

by LoveLovesLove on Feb 13, 2012 10:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I like to consider myself a smart fella

But then I read pieces like this written by VJ and I realize that I’m not so bright when it comes to certain areas.

I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.

by ArchAngel79 on Feb 19, 2012 1:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Great work,

though it will take a while to digest all of it.

Now get back to your dissertation, dammit!

by Madison Dan on Feb 13, 2012 1:22 PM CST reply actions  

Basketball stats is my primary procrastination destination...

Whenever you see a drastic uptick in my Hoopus posting, especially ridiculous projects like this, you can be certain I am reaching a point where I need to do a ton of real work.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Shouldn't offensive rebounds

be balanced against turnovers in the Poss+ category?

by dropstep on Feb 13, 2012 1:22 PM CST reply actions  

confusing language...

but turnovers are captured in the Shot Creation score.

Turnovers are included in the value of offensive rebounds, but only to the extent that they devalue the average possession.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent post

Good post vjl110. I attempted something similar with the NCAA a year or so ago but this is way better than my attempt. LOL at Darko in 2011 as the center of Rambis offense.

This data is theoretically recoverable from Play-by-Play and matchup data, but I don’t currently have the programming chops to pull it off.

What do you need it to look like and be formatted like?

I’m learning Perl at the moment and might be able to help.

by blackswanhunter on Feb 13, 2012 1:32 PM CST reply actions  

I am looking for something similar to what Hoopdata has, but for players' matchup rather than themselves....

opponent attempts at rim/jumper/three, opponent makes at rim/jumper/three, opponent percent assisted at rim/jumper/three, opponent assists to rim/jumper/three, then basic matchup data like opponent to, orb and fta.

I know I can learn how to script that… and I have “non-basketball reasons” to learn, but it would be a lot of work to get there.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

that is...

most certainly, not something you need to apologize for.

not to mention… I asked you to get a bunch of college stuff and I am thanking the heavens I don’t have it right now, because I would feel obligated to start working with it.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

If you are learning a first programming language

I’d personally suggest Python for simple things and Java for complex things

Both are fairly easy to use, have great libraries of built-in functions, good free education on the web etc. PERL is good too, but the syntax is quite arcane due to trying to be compatible with many old Unix programmer tools like awk, grep, etc. I’ve heard Ruby is good as well but have not personally used it.

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra

by Wile E Coyote on Feb 13, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

this

I can’t recommend python enough. It is really a very neat and easy to learn programming language ;)

by celebdor on Feb 13, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Basketball Hacks

Basketball Hacks by Joseph Adler is what I’m working through at the moment. It’s a great resource that covers a lot of what you need to know to do data mining and analysis.

I already know R, SQL, and am just getting to the Perl. I need something to work towards with Perl. If I come up with something I’ll let you know.

by blackswanhunter on Feb 13, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

so what you're saying is that

If the Wolves had a whole team of Wes Johnson’s vs the League Avg

we’d lose 108 – 93?

great post, as always.

http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub

by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 13, 2012 1:51 PM CST reply actions  

I think it's interesting

that our best offensive lineup, disregarding position and using only PA100, is:
Love
Rubio
Pek
Barea
Ridnour

which saw extended minutes towards the end of the NYK game.

...I've been drinking...
twolfcast ep7 available now!

by losDelFuego on Feb 13, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

also,

the Wolves have a net -18.83 PA100. We have one great offensive player (Love), three good offensive players (JJ, Pek, Rubio), two mostly-neutral offensive players (Ridnour, AR15), and a whole slew of actively bad offensive players (the rest of the roster).

This stat appears to have a thing or two to say about Beasley’s “offensive weapon” reputation. He’s not even loaded with blanks, he’s straight backfiring.

Tonight’s opponent, Orlando, has a net -31.71 PA100. Much of that is because of Justin Harper’s abysmal -19, though, and he’s a non-factor, having averaged only 2.5 minutes in 5 games.

Take him out of the calculus, and they’re netting -12.5. If only offense counts, and assuming the fiction of evenly distributed minutes, then we are outclassed for tonight.

...I've been drinking...
twolfcast ep7 available now!

by losDelFuego on Feb 13, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

just a sum.

not as meaningful as minute-weighted would be, of course, but I’m at work, you know?

...I've been drinking...
twolfcast ep7 available now!

by losDelFuego on Feb 13, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Minutes-adjusted

using MPG out of 240 possible, gives us a net AP100 of -4.23.

Methodology is flawed for this calculation, though. A better calculation would be to use total MP out of the running-total possible minutes as the factor for adjusting the scores. Brad Miller is averaging 7MPG, for example, but that doesn’t take into account that he’s only played in five games. A “true” minutes-adjusted version would minimize him into something inconsequential, instead of landing him at -1.03.

Again, I’m at work, so I’m (probably) not going to follow up on this.

...I've been drinking...
twolfcast ep7 available now!

by losDelFuego on Feb 13, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

You should see the past 5 years of Wolves lineups....

it isn’t good.

I plan on posting them sometime this week.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

vjl...do you have a Twitter handle?

I’d like to spread this out over the interwebs and want to give you proper credit.

Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline

by TimAllen on Feb 13, 2012 1:52 PM CST reply actions  

So all this information is data-mined?

None is interpretative? How are the shot locations grouped? How do you calculate expected foul rate or should’ve-been-assists?

Lotta questions because I don’t see so much of the math here. Like for example, pau out did love last year? Smell test by looking at their reg/advanced stats that sould be really hard to do.

by bustaone on Feb 13, 2012 1:59 PM CST reply actions  

None is interpertive.

shot locations are based on hoopdata. 3-23 feet is “mid” rim and three are rim and three. “potential assists” are determined by assuming expected fg% of assisted shots at a given location mid/tre/rim. ex: if you have 5 assists at rim and players shoot 50% on assisted shots at rim, I assume 5 potential assists for 10 rim shots created.

Foul rates are estimated by allocating players’ total FGA/FTA across locations based on the distribution empirically determined here.

Pau and Love were really close last season. Only separated by one player in total points added on the season (Kobe). Pau’s biggest advantage on love was in creating rim shots for other players. Outside of that, Love was the better offensive rebounder and they were pretty equal in shot execution (small advantage Pau because his superior efficiency at rim and mid range trumped Love’s tres and fts).

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

OOhhhhkay.

The image of dirk’s side fadeaway had me thinking you had it down to the ‘left block’ ‘right block’ ‘straightaway 3’ etc.

And the rest of the data is normalized vs. league-wide averages. Not sure why I thought you were doing it on a player-by-player basis. Gotcha. I’m also surprised though that there is a place that adds up unconverted assist attempts.

Excited to see what results from the defensive one, if you ever get around to it!

Cool work.

by bustaone on Feb 13, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

So how much are teammates factored in?

It would seem like Pau had a huge advantage last year, in that it’s much easier to create a shot at the rim for Bynum than it is for Darko.

by Jerwol on Feb 15, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Teammates aren't factored in.

I am sure guys with valuable targets have an advantage, but I’m not sure how much. It isn’t like D. Howard carries Jameer Nelson to the top of the list every year. Nash did just about as well before and after Amare. Most of the potentially problematic cases I look at don’t seem biased. I still haven’t looked at team changes in a structured manner, but many of the anecdotal cases have almost the exact same numbers moving from team to team. If you want to nudge Pau and Love an inch either way due to teammates, feel free. I bet they were about equally productive last season no matter which one you put on top. I don’t think teammates are going to explain the difference between any players with significant production gaps between them.

by vjl110 on Feb 15, 2012 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I was just wondering

Like you said it’s probably just a minimal impact on the ratings, but something that jumped out when you detailed the breakdown between Pau and Love. And pretty soon (if not already) that advantage is going to swing in Love’s favor as Pek continues to dominate in the paint.

Great job by the way

by Jerwol on Feb 15, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Can you briefly lay out this model's description of Luke Ridnour and his game?

I’m thinking of these bits:

To calculate shot creation, I start with the basic assumption that a team can take an unassisted jumper any time it wants. I call this the “settle.” Taking a “settle” shot does not confer any value because it is, on average, the lowest quality shot a player can take.
What I am looking for in “shot execution,” is a player’s ability to transcend the expected value of different types of shots. An unassisted mid-range shot is much more valuable when it comes from Dirk Nowitzki than when it comes from Darko Milicic. This is true for every type of shot. Players who shoot above the expected value on different looks improve their teams point production by either enhancing the value of good shot creation or by dampening the sting of possessions that fail to produce quality shots.

How are you balancing out Luke’s traits, here? Ridnour takes what seem, to the eye, to be a lot of abrupt “settle” shot attempts – but when he’s on, at least, it seems like he makes them in a way your model would say “dampens” the sting of those same iffy shots.

If you were to hold Luke up next to a sorta-kinda antithetical point guard, like Anthony Carter (defensive-minded, veteran guy who runs the offense in as vanilla-efficient way as he can?) or someone like that, how much would this model help describe their two games, and what would it say about their relative values?

The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.

by feral on Feb 13, 2012 1:59 PM CST reply actions  

(That Carter parenthesis is ugly, but you get my drift.)

The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.

by feral on Feb 13, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Luke graded out as the 18th best PG...

to play at least 2000 possessions last season. That seems about right to me given that we haven’t considered defense yet. The only PGs ahead of him with worse SC values are Lou Williams and Rodney Stuckey. Luke would be much lower, but his high SE, almost entirely propped up by his mid-range execution keeps him afloat.

This model does not properly punish Luke for tossing up a jumper without trying to create other opportunities, but it also doesn’t reward him unless he does it better than average. There is an implicit assumption that somebody needs to take those shots. This is obvious when offenses poke and prod before failing and settling as the clock runs down, but it may also be the case that players need to toss up shots earlier in the clock as well, especially if they are good looks, to force defenses to stay honest. Selfish good shooters will do OK in this model, but they will consistently take a hit in the SC department if they settle before looking to drive or setup teammates. Beasley costing the team more than a point per 100 last season just in lack of shot creation emphasizes that pretty well.

This is an offensive model, so it is naturally going to be mean to defensive guys.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

If you manage to do this for defense

we are just going to call it the vjl110 stat to rule them all. Defensive stats are the hardest because it is judged by a non-event.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.

by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 13, 2012 2:01 PM CST reply actions  

If you managed to even make a compotent defensive metric

I would applaud the shit out of you, cause outside of DRTG and wholesale metrics like WS/48 that just account for player worth….there is not much out there for defense anyways.

I know you say it’s boring because the best players are always the best and the worst players are still the worse (wes johnson is bad no matter how you cut it) what about middle ground players? Were there any surprises? Like does OJ Mayo have a better PA 100 than Andre Igodoua? (Not that I’m expecting that, just throwing what would be classified as a “surprise” analysis of two middle ground wing players)

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 2:07 PM CST reply actions  

OJ was in the negative

Sorry.

So was Rudy Fernandez, which gave me pause.

Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV

by HumdingerTV on Feb 13, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

or just any MOR players

not OJ Mayo per se….but just like the glut of players that are considered solid are there any surprises there

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

You can look up any players you want in the link I posted at the end...

OJ was terrible last year, but better this year. Iggy does pretty bad actually, but he would probably look a lot better if we had a defensive counterpart.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it would help to have minutes played in the spreadsheet.

The main thing I want to do is come up with an average player profile by position, which ought to be minutes weighted (unless you convince me otherwise). For example, just taking simple averages, shooting guards average about -1.0 on Poss100. This makes some sense, since offensive rebounding is not really their job. But it would be useful to see a benchmark “average” player at each position to know whether, say, Kevin Martin is particularly bad at offensive rebounding, or just a shooting guard.

by Madison Dan on Feb 13, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Any plans to adjust this by position?

or should I just add position and sort your spreadsheet to do so manually?

by zebano on Feb 13, 2012 2:16 PM CST reply actions  

I don't like position adjustments.

I think they basically function to paper-over problems with the model. I am trying to say exactly how many points a player is worth based on the things they do, regardless of position.

I would wager this metric does overvalue PGs however, but I would rather just take some things with a grain of salt than adjust for position. Also… if I ever do get around to making a defensive measure, it will be match-up based so players will get dinged by whatever positional advantage they are currently getting bumped for.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I love it when

stats confirm what we already know, Darko and Wes suck. I would be interested to see how this compares against styles of play such as melo vs. lin or rubio vs. irving

Please disregard any undeserved compliments.

by the.hubs on Feb 13, 2012 2:18 PM CST reply actions  

Firstly, fantastic work vjl...


Next, good god, CHA and WAS SUCK!
Then, LAL and POR aren’t as good as I thought.
Last, that’s it.

by Boss10 on Feb 13, 2012 3:27 PM CST reply actions  

wow

Awesome work. You may be able to put defense into this frame, maybe not. I’ve been thinking for awhile of trying to create a metric that measure ball in the following categories: gaining possession (defensive rebounds, steals, drawing charges, blocks that lead to a change in pos, etc.), maintaining possession (offensive rebounds, not committing turnovers, etc.), and capitalizing on possession (scoring!). But I lack the statistical chops and work ethic. But I dunno — just another way to think about, attempt to quantify ball.

by monkeywolf on Feb 13, 2012 3:27 PM CST reply actions  

Awesome work. I love how logically it is put together

As opposed to something like PER where it looks like he just ran a regression and plugged in the coefficients.

It really reminds me of WAR in baseball – how it can be deconstructed and added back up.

"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"

by Steven Ellingson on Feb 13, 2012 3:45 PM CST reply actions  

I think this is kinda cool. Don't fully understand though

but certainly very very cool.

I don’t believe you addressed it, but maybe you just used too many big words for me:
what is like “good”? is just having a positive PA 100 good, is like 10.0 good or what?

Also it’s always awesome for me to read how good James Harden is.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 4:29 PM CST reply actions  

positive is good.

A team full of 0 players will go .500 (assuming equivalent defense) Every point above or below 0 indicates how many points they add or take away from their team compared to the average over the course of 100 possessions (slightly more than 1 game). A PA 100 of “10” is exceptional. I need to look back, but I think the best performance in the last 5 years is LeBron in 2009 at over 11. That means he was probably adding something like 8 points per game to the Cavs relative to having an average player in his place.

Also note… since the best players tend to play the most minutes, the mean value of 0 is better than most players.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

ah. maybe i misinterpreted the graphic.

I see now that the 2nd-to-last graphic is PA/gm, not PA100.

...I've been drinking...
twolfcast ep7 available now!

by losDelFuego on Feb 13, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Best seasons....

Chris Paul 2009 had just over 12 PA100 and LeBron got over 10 that year also

LeBron 2010 had 11.65

Wade got 9.9 in 2007, otherwise no scores over 10 in the past 5 seasons.

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

We should look into Evan Turner

or also if we are acquiring Batum we should sneak Elliot Williams into that deal. these metrics back up my thought that they could at least be competent 2’s

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions  

the second-to-last graphic

in the main post shows the best scored at each position for the last 5 seasons. This should give you an idea of the scale.

The best-overall PA100 score in the last five seasons was Chris Paul in 2009 with an 8.27. The lowest score to qualify as “best of their position” in the last five years is Dwight Howards in 2007 with a 3.08. The average highest score per position in the last five years is 5.57.

From this, I’ve deduced that 1.5+ is “good”, 3.5+ is “great”, and 6+ is “outstanding”.

It seems like anything between -1 and 1.5 is “ineffective”, and anything lower than -1 would be bad.

...I've been drinking...
twolfcast ep7 available now!

by losDelFuego on Feb 13, 2012 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I should note that....

confusingly… I used PA/game in that last graphic where elsewhere I used per 100 poss

by vjl110 on Feb 13, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't understand the mechanics of this at all,

but it’s clearly a well-thought-out project. Kudos!

I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.

by Cynical Jason on Feb 13, 2012 5:00 PM CST reply actions  

So then why does Wes start then?

He has one of the worst offensive scores. darkco is low too.

by fantwolves on Feb 13, 2012 8:58 PM CST reply actions  

I think my head just exploded.

I love the variety of thought on this site. Great job with this. I look forward to the next project. I just wish I understood all of this a little better.

by SlowBreak on Feb 13, 2012 9:30 PM CST reply actions  

I like the fact this doesn't completely hate on long twos

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 10:17 PM CST reply actions  

Haha

there is a time and place for the mid range jump shot. I’m happy this accounts for that.

I get that it’s not the most valuable shot do to the fact you have to shoot from a farther distance without getting the extra point…..but there is a reason Dirk has been killing it for 10 years, cause those shots are generally available. If you can hit them consistently you will see open looks all night.

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Feb 13, 2012 10:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought you told us to hate on long twos.

I am so confused . . .

I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.

by Cynical Jason on Feb 14, 2012 12:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Whoa, whoa, whoa

Your Koolaid level must be getting dangerously low! Drink up!

by JMGrady on Feb 14, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, I was running out, so I started to ration it.

I won’t make that mistake again.

I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.

by Cynical Jason on Feb 15, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

My word, thats a lot of work.

While I can’t comment on the metric itself, because I’m useless with stats, it was very easy to read and understand.

Oh, and you should be GM. In fact, I reckon we could build a really nice front office from this website…

"If you’ve got some balls, you can do some stuff"

by JonesTheCat on Feb 14, 2012 8:02 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Good stuff!

To the OP, you might be interested in a metric I created last year called PSAMS (Position- And Shot-Adjusted Marginal Scoring), which uses quite a bit of similar logic. This is just a shooting metric. Also, it’s done with using play-by-play data. Originally, I used HoopData like you are, but I had already written a lot of PBP code, so it wasn’t difficult for me to do it for this.

http://thecity2.com/psams-ratings/

You (and others) also may be interested in a series of posts I’ve done in the past week on looking at how player’s affect mid-range and inside shooting at the team level. It’s basically like +/- but for shooting locations:

http://thecity2.com/2012/02/02/i-can-live-with-or-without-you-shooting-those-mid-range-jumpers/

http://thecity2.com/2012/02/04/adjusted-mid-range-shooting-boring-title-fascinating-data/

http://thecity2.com/2012/02/08/3-year-adjusted-mid-range-shooting/

http://thecity2.com/2012/02/11/inside-guys-or-if-i-had-done-this-metric-last-summer-jeremy-lin-might-still-be-a-warrior/

http://thecity2.com/2012/02/12/3-year-adjusted-mid-range-shooting-efficiency-or-remember-this-post-when-the-warriors-trade-away-ekpe-udoh-for-a-cup-of-coffee/

http://thecity2.com/2012/02/14/3-yr-adjusted-inside-shooting-efficiency-pps-or-yafwmtl-yet-another-former-warrior-makes-the-list/

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.

by Evanz on Feb 14, 2012 11:23 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I actually ran across your work when I was researching this metric.

You do really good work. I have started checking your blog since then. Glad you came across the post.

Your work here is very close to what I want to do on the defensive end, but I still need to figure out how to compile match-up and PbP data.

Basically I just want to flip around the metric I present here and apply it to match-up data.

stage 1: How good is a player at denying higher value opportunities (and creating turnovers)
stage 2: How good is a player at minimizing the impact of the opportunities allowed
stage 3: How good is a player at making sure possessions end after the shot

by vjl110 on Feb 14, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

thanks

I did start to use PSAMS for defense (PSAMD). See here:

http://thecity2.com/2011/10/17/position-and-shot-adjusted-marginal-defense-part-i-analysis-of-interior-defense/

It becomes problematic for doing positions other than center, who seem to have by far the biggest effect on opponent shot distribution. That is why I started calculating the adjusted shooting metrics listed above. You can see precisely that bigs tend to have the most effect on opponent shot selection (good bigs cause the opponent to take more mid-range shots), and likewise, they create more inside opportunities for their own team, which then doesn’t have to take as many of those shots.

Anyway, keep up the good work. I think if you read those links up there, it will give you plenty of ideas for further work on your metrics.

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.

by Evanz on Feb 14, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

oh, one more thing...

I’ve posted my PBP code (in Ruby) on github. It may help give you a start in that direction. I use the files from basketballvalue.com.

https://github.com/EvanZ/BBV_PBP_PARSER

Read my Advanced Stats Primer

J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.

(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.

by Evanz on Feb 14, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

This is incredible. Just brilliant.

Once you have the defensive side figured out, you can move on to college/Europe to NBA conversion. Once you know which of these components base translate across leagues, you will really be ready for your GMship. :)

by stuntmonkeys on Feb 14, 2012 2:07 PM CST reply actions  

Wow....

This is an absolutely fantastic thread.

I’ve been reading this site for awhile and I am continued to be amazed at the intelligence and basketball knowledge that the majority of posters bring to the table. Kudos…

(I’m going to be re-reading this to digest it all)

by Cris Carter is a Muppet on Feb 17, 2012 11:04 PM CST reply actions  

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