Pek's Defense
by jclillehei93 on Feb 14, 2012 10:33 AM CST
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PrintI, like most other Wolves fans have become a huge fan of Nikola Pekovic but people seem to keep knocking his defense. The other post suggesting we trade Pek for Biyombo doesn't make any sense to me. Sure, Biyombo is much more athletic and will produce many more highlight reel blocks but I don't think Pek is given enough credit for his defensive ability. You don't see Pek making huge blocks or what not but his physicality is what makes him a respectable and capable defender. Last night the guy held the best center in the league, Dwight Howard, to 4-11 shooting and seven boards and got him into foul trouble. A couple of games ago even Andrew Bynum, another all star center remarked "Thank god they took Pekovic out" Pek is a defensive force, but not in a way that is obvious. Pek all the way.
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From what I've read his team D is not that great
He certainly is able to wear down whatever C he is taking on.
I’m not the best with this kind of analysis so I don’t have much of an opinion myself…
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
It seems like his post D is pretty strong, but It looks like he’s slow on the help D and he’s not very quick on recovering…. Overall though I think he’s an underrated defender… but he’s just underrated in general.
I think his problems with help D are 2 fold
He’s not an elite leaper so he’s not going to alter a lot of shots by challenging them, just by positioning so that people have to work around or over him which is a limitation you just deal with . The bigger problem IMO (which has gotten better) is respect from the refs. I’ve seen a couple cases where he moves baseline to cut off a drive and the ballhandler just runs into him and gets a call.
He's also not particularly long.
Like last night, he basically ate up Howard on both ends, but there was that one lob where he had perfect position, but his arms weren’t long enough and he couldn’t jump high enough to prevent the pass getting to Dwight.
Now, that’s not a situation that is going to come up often, but it does show the couple areas where he will struggle. Although so far, the good far outweighs the bad with Pek. By far.
He may not be long, or exceptionally athletic
But i recall one play on defense last night, Howard got the ball just outside of the paint on the low post. Instead of backing him down, he ended up passing out. If that was Darko, he’d have backed him down and dunked in his face. Against Pek, pass out. Howard simply couldn’t move him. Say what you will about his help D and short arms, Dwight Howard COULD NOT back him down. I’ll take that.
www.unleashkevinlove.com
Absolutely.
Pek forced Dwight to shoot from outside his comfort zone all night. That’s a HUGE deal.
Again, I don’t have any problem with Pek’s individual defense on his man. My issue is that with Love and Pek, we have no help defense at all, and no one to protect the rim.
The idea that Pek is bad at defense
is a conspiracy funded by other NBA centers hoping to keep Pek on the bench and away from their eventually shattered egos and bodies.
by landon2112 on Feb 14, 2012 11:10 AM CST reply actions 8 recs
This!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 14, 2012 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
further
claiming Pek is bad at defense is like claiming the Mongol Horde is bad at defense. When all they do is roll over you and burn your village to the ground, analytics on their defense would seem to be furthest from your mind.
by dontbesomean youngfella on Feb 14, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
For real
Have people forgot about what it is like to have a physically dominant center? These days people get all excited about athletic, high flying, finesse centers who naturally shy away from contact. Pek puts his body into his man on D and plays him standing straight up.
Chuck Hayes comes to mind with Pek
Except Pek is even taller. Bigs that are built like oak trees can really use their bodies to lean on their opponent and make it really difficult to get shots that are on balance and in close. Hayes is a master at bodying up his man, but keeping his arms straight up to give the appearance he isn’t fouling. Pek is starting to get away with this too and has gotten so much more respect from the officials.
I still think Love and Pek will always suffer when it comes to weakside defense, but right now they are the starting tandem on the 13th ranked defense in the NBA. Not bad.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 14, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
I think that's the key.
Love and Pek are very similar defenders. They’re both pretty solid guarding their man using strength and positioning, but neither guy is at all a help defender and they aren;t going to do much to stop wings that get by our perimeter guys.
What we really need is that 3rd guy who is long and rangy and can come off the bench to play with either Love or Pek.
What else we really need. . .
Wings who are good perimeter defenders.
by twolf1 on Feb 14, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, Hoops hype data says the TWoles are 12th in Defense
at or near the rim but only 20th on 3pt and near 3pt shooting This was from data through the Knicks game. Of course other players are involved in defending the rim.
Hoopdata has us:
At/near the hoop: 11th
3-9 feet: 14th
10-15 feet: 6th
16-23 feet: 18th
3 pointers: 20th
We’re solid inside of 15 feet, so our bigs are doing a good job on their own guys, and they’re doing OK on penetration. Its on the perimeter that we’re struggling more.
I have to admit
that now, after taking a step back and really looking it over, I was wrong with my trade post (Pek for Biyombo). Pek is not the flashy, shot blocking defender that makes people ooo and ahh. But he is a bulldozer, and almost impossible to move. He really has done a very good job on everyone he has been put up against (struggled most with Marc Gasol). I agree though that our 3rd big should be more that shot blocking type that can play the 4 and 5. I really had hope, and will continue to, that we had that man already in Anthony Randolph. He has the athleticism to be that guy.
"Long and Rangy"
The problem though is we get caught up in the ideal physical profile game and then end up with a really unproductive basketball player. Remember Ryan Hollins? Physically, he absolutely fit what we all thought we needed with Love and Jefferson – a rangy, athletic big man. There was only one problem: He sucked. The same goes for Darko.
The fact remains we are the #13 defense in the NBA with two plodding (albeit hardworking) short-armed bigs, a rookie PG, a backup PG playing SG, and Wes Johnson. That’s pretty damn good. Imagine how good we’ll be when we stop coughing the ball up all over the place and make a higher % of our shots, therefore yielding less fast break points?
I just think we need productive basketball players. Get guys that can shoot, take care of the basketball, and rebound. The defense will come.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 14, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't say just anyone long and rangy.
I’m talking about someone that can actually play defense. Someone that can chase stretch 4s out to the perimeter, someone who can provide weakside shotblocking, or protect the rim from a penetrating guard.
Not a “David Kahn looks the part” guy, but someone that can actually play the part.
by Simitar on Feb 14, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I hear you
but those guys aren’t easy to find and can be expensive, so teams like the Wolves end up reaching for a guy that fits the physical profile and bets that he can also be productive. This team gets pretty decent production from the C, PF, and PG, but the wings are horrendous. I just don’t see a 3rd big as a priority. May be it eventually becomes one. I think if you have wings that can make shots and take care of the basketball, the offense AND defense will improve.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 14, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
Never said it was a bigger need.
Clearly wings are more important as we have none. I’m just saying that we could use a guy who isn’t so much in the Love/Pek model to complete the 3 man rotation.
Agree with this...
But we absolutely have 2/3 of the core with Love and Pek. That much is clear.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 14, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
Yup
In the course of one season, we have gone from one guy that we can count on to three. Our starting C, PF, and PG are pretty much set. Stepping away from the recent losing streak, the arrival of Ricky and the emergence of Pekovic has been absolutely huge.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 14, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's easy to count to 3 with Pek
1, 2, whistle
I jest he’s much improved this year in that department.
Pek's offense also supports his defense...
He beats guys down on the offensive end and wears them out so they’re easier to defend…watching him handle Dwight Howard last night made the game somewhat bearable.
by LosAngelesTWolf on Feb 14, 2012 1:13 PM CST reply actions
Darko is capable of blocking and altering shots :-))))
Maybe Peks’ work ethic is contagious. They are friends, sooo…maybe, just maybe……..
inside defense
You guys might be interested in this. I calculated an adjusted version of inside(+FTA) shot taking. Pekovic ranked 10th on defense (based on 2011 data), which surprised me. I didn’t know who he was until recently. See the 3rd spreadsheet labeled “DEFENSE”.
J-RIDAH: Its not 1 player in this draft better than Monta or Lee. Anthony Davis is no different than Al Farouq Aminu. Andre Drummond could be good but he is not impressive at this point at all besides his size. This draft is hella overated.
(JaVale) Mcgee is better than anybody in this draft.
GIGANTOSAURUS Pek!
Did anyone else notice how Pek made Dwight Howard look small? Usually #12 is the biggest & most intimidating presence on the floor but he just looked scrawny next to Pek. THAT is whats up!!
Pek's Athleticism
I do agree that him not being the most agile guy can hinder his defense but I still find that overall Pek’s defense is undervalued.
He's a very large mammal
Personally, I love the fact that his on ball defense consists of a whirling dervish of feet, skull ink, and jazz hands. Go ahead and try to score with all that crap going on in front of you.
Reason is the first victim of strong emotion.
by nodnarb on Feb 14, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahahahaha
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 15, 2012 8:26 AM CST up reply actions
On the list of things to worry about on the Wolves . . .
Pek’s defense is way down there. Yeah, he isn’t a great help defender, but given that he is a beast on O and plays solid post D, let’s not nitpick.
I’m more worried about whether Webster will be able to keep his mohawk going for the whole year.
I agree
Let’s fill the gaping void at the wing positions and then see where we are at. I would guess Pek is part of the solution, not the problem. I’ve been really pleased at how he shows good effort, does not seem to get intimidated, and does not give up low post position. There is a huge difference, when defending a guy with traditional post moves, to letting him post right on the box vs. 8 feet farther away. Those hook shots suddenly get pretty flat and unreliable.
Plus Pek scores so efficiently at the other end that it is hard to say he is losing most C match-ups.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 15, 2012 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
I'm totally convinced
That we have our starting center slot locked up for the foreseeable future. Dude’s only 26.
I think it’s hilarious that we ended up with the exact opposite type of frontcourt that Kahn wanted to build. Short arms and floor-bound. But pretty damn good.
He as the same problem as Love
Neither of them play anything that resembles help defense. Individually they look alright but Love and Pek don’t give our wings or guards any help.
Re: Anyone concerned with his help D
I’m tired of people veiling their manimalistic instinctive desire to see some THnDeRSWATS!!!! as desire to see better help defense. As of 1/29/12 (admittedly not as up to date as desired) Pek’s team DRtg was 93, best on the team. This means the team as a whole was best defensively when he was on the court. I can’t explain why this is. Maybe Pek yells out picks in hilarious Montenegrin accent which causes the playmakers to laugh and Ricky to get the steal. Maybe the wings actually try on man defense because they think “Pek sucks at help D, I need to actually care for 8 minutes.” Maybe opposing guards settle for jumpers because Pek skulled them last year and put the fear of God into them. Or maybe… just maybe… you don’t need a 45 inch vertical to alter shots in the lane. Whatever the case, maybe we should refrain from depending on the tired old meme that Pek can’t play help defense until the stats reflect that his presence is actually detrimental to team defense (that’s the point of help D right?).
I'm not a fan of defensive stats, or stats that group the entire team together
I guess I’ll just have to pay attention for the next couple of games and see if his team D is good or bad.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 15, 2012 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
Very understandable
I’m not a fan of them either, as there are a lot of details taking place on the court that can’t possibly be attributed to one player. However, in this instance I feel like the difference between him and Darko (and between him and our other posts, for that matter) is so vast that we can’t possibly say that Pek’s been a liability.
However the conversations I’m even less a fan of are amateur conversations saying “Pek’s not good at help D because he doesn’t look like he is when I watch him.” Because that leaves people like me saying “He looks good to me.” There are a lot of things that happen on the court, and we tend to see what we subconsciously (or outwardly) want to see.
Indeed
This is for individual DRtg though, or plays that can be attributable to Pek. Floor time stats, namely team DRtg, are available at 82games.com. Unfortunately those still haven’t been updated.
Pek’s individual DRtg will tend to be worse than his team DRtg because he’s not going to rack up a lot of blocks, steals, or defensive rebounds (in other words his contributions won’t be fully realized because he won’t individually “end” the other team’s possessions).
hmm my understanding of DRtg is wrong then and BBref doesn't have a good explanation
can you point me to a better source on how it’s calculated? My understanding was it was simply points allowed by the team while Player X is on the floor adjusted to 100 possessions.
You're 80% right
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=1120 This explanation is kind of rough, but it’s enough to get the picture.
20% of an individual’s DRtg is individual plays, so it further benefits players who rebound, get steals, or block shots.
But going back to your original point, Pek’s current DRtg of 101 implies his team rating will likely go up nearer to 100 next time those stats are updated. I don’t want to venture a guess though, because I would have guessed it to be a lot different in January.
The modern NBA C doesn´t defend the rival C.
He defends everybody who wants to do business near the rim. Long arms, reasonable leaper, 6´11 or larger …
Bynum, Chandler, Dalembert, Jordan, Biedrins, Camby, Noah, Duncan, Nene, Gortat, McGee, Cousins?,Bogut, …
Guys like Haywood, Perkins, Kwame, Okafor (on the fence) are a bit slow as help defenders and the Marc, B Lopez, Hibbert, Monroe, Jefferson are suspicious, sort of a tradeoff.
The lack of a market for guys like Kaman (Bargnani?) speaks loudly.
Udate on opponent shooting percentage from hoopdata
At the Rim Minnesota ranked 10/11 (tie with Lakers) and at 3-9 feet we ranked as 14th best team defensively. Not too bad. We are below average defending further out from the basket however.
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