Jonny, Wes and Sasha

…I’ve noticed he’s been marginally more assertive in the past handful of games. Taking shots more assertively (although still not making them) which has led to more intense defensive effort. If — and this is a huge if — he can regain confidence in his shot, perhaps he will turn it around.

Maybe RA hasn’t benched him yet because if he does so, any shred of confidence he’s clinging to will disappear forever. Tough to have a player with such a fragile psyche but that seems to be our Wes

He has gotten so much right, I am willing to give him slack on this, but I really can’t figure out why Wes is still starting. I can’t see how the team would be worse starting Derrick Williams or Martell (though he has been basically horrible so far). It is a sad state of affairs when you look longingly at guys like Alonzo Gee and Donte Green…

During that draft, the narrative on this board was DMC vs. Wes. At the time, I was firmly in the Wes camp, and it wasn’t so much an endorsement of his talent as it was my fear of DMC……DMC struck me as the type of player reminiscent of Rashad McCants or even J.R. Rider……the tragic figure who his blessed with such a level of talent that you are in essence forced to give him a prominent role and every opportunity to succeed, yet someone whose innate personality demonstrated a level of toxicity that would definitively cripple his own career but would stunt the development of his team given how much extra energy he would require to coach and put in a position to succeed.

But that said, it wasn’t as if the argument against Wes was “he’s going to be the worst player in the league”……..the argument was that his age and his limited sample size of top-flight production suggested the likelihood of him reaching the star power one would expect to obtain with the #4 overall pick in the draft was pretty minimal.

So in my head, I was fine with the Wes pick because I felt that, even though he had a lower ceiling, he had a much higher floor, and was more likely to end up in a better place than any one else available at #4. I certainly would have been less likely to advocate the pick of Wes had i foreseen him having the worst season in Wolves history as a realistic scenario.

Here’s where my ignorance and my casual attention to the sport kicks in……..it seemed as if this was considered a safe, reasonable pick by most of the NBA pundits at the time. The Wes pick wasn’t the Knicks taking Renaldo Balkman or the Oakland Raiders taking Sebastian Janikowski in the first round….this wasn’t considered a reach by any means. The worst that people could say about the pick at the time was that the Wolves were risking the difference between DMC’s ceiling and Wes’ ceiling.

Nobody, even on this board (that I remember) predicted that Wes would be this abominally bad. Obviously, if there were indicators that we would be this putrid in college, he wouldn’t have been drafted at 44, much less 4. If the Wolves didn’t draft him, you have to think he wouldn’t have fallen past #10 (warning! unscientific analysis!)

A similar phenomenon took place with Hasheem Thabeet. If Thabeet wasn’t drafted at #2, he wasn’t getting past the Wolves at #5. And if for whatever reason the Wolves drank out of the cup of enlightenment and passed, he wouldn’t have gone past #10. Yet, this guy shouldn’t have been drafted at any position. Yet, I remember reading a glowing Chad Ford article about him prior to the draft.

So here’s my question for the community………..how do these things happen? How does Wes Johnson, Jonny Flynn, Hasheem Thabeet, Joe Alexander, Adam Morrison, Marcus Fizer or Stromile Swift happen? How is that these picks, which weren’t necessarily considered “reaches” (which is the scenario you would most likely expect to encounter a complete and total bust of a draft pick) ended up busting out? How does the NBA intelligentsia, and not blowhards like Stephen A but intelligent analysts like Chad Ford, not foresee this?

This community is more comfortable with some of the advanced statistics and analytics of basketball than I am………career-blowing injuries aside, is there any more reliable way to predict complete and total ineptitude and suckitude a la Wes? If there are, are these stats/analytics just ignored by the media? Should there be a case where a guy gets pulled off a draft board entirely and not taken at any pick/

We get it, he’s not very consistent and when he bad he’s really bad but come on give him a break he actually played well last night. There’s no reason to feel the need to remind us he’s bad because we all just saw him play a good game. He had 9 points on 4-6 shooting, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, and 0 turnovers. Obviously that’s not great by itself but combine that with the fact he was able to hold Houston’s leading scorer to 10 points on 2-8 shooting and I would say Wes played a really good game.

You post it right after he has a decent game. And the last few games he has been putting some things together. You really should have timed your Wes-bashing campaign for earlier when he was at his nadir.

I gotta believe that’s what Adelman is thinking. He must see something in practice that suggests to him that Wes can eventually contribute. I’ve resigned myself to just accept that Adelman ain’t budging and now I’m hoping for the best. Hell, even Corey Brewer has turned himself into a pretty efficient player. That’s incredible to me after 3 seasons of posting sub-50 TS% with regular minutes.

Dudes who are complaining about “why did SnP post this now” and “OMG enough about wes already”: hey, just don’t read the article. You don’t want to read a critical look at Wes “Stick of Juicy Fruit” Johnson today? Great: don’t read it. It’s the internet for crying out loud. You don’t have to read anything. You can read the fanposts if you don’t want to read SnP. I like SnP, and I also read the fanposts.

This is not the NYT front page. It’s not a scarce resource that uniquely commands influence. The timing of featured posts to canis hoopus affects NOTHING. It’s just for fun. Beating a dead horse on canis hoopus affects NOTHING. It’s just for fun.

On the other hand, those who disagree with the substance of SnP’s post (arguing that Wesley Flynnson contributes on defense, for example) are doing it right. I’m glad to read a substantive discussion. That’s why I’m down here reading the comments. Disagree all you want about the argument or use of stats. But complaints about timing or repetition are just silly.

every game for two weeks now. Dwill also has looked better of late. There is no point in looking into stats and numbers when we as fans who watch the games know Wes was absolutely horrible in the beginning and did nothing right.

These two should not be judged for what they have produced so far, but what they do each and every game because they are young players who aren’t limited by their physical abilities but have not been able to adjust to the NBA yet.

Wes cant shoot most nights but at least he can play some D

Remember Bruce Bowen of the Spurs when they were in their glory years? He had two jobs, defend the opponent’s best wing man and make corner threes. If the Wolves could get a decent shooting guard, that is what Wes would be asked to do and he would probably do a good job of it.

…it’s truly hilarious how some people still defend Wes. I would guess it’s only possible if one doesn’t watch any other NBA games to see what competent wing players look like.

The whole “Wes is a good defender and could be Bruce Bowen” thing is such an insult to the former Spurs great. Great defenders are almost always brilliant basketball IQ individuals. Bowen was a master at taking away the first choice of the offensive player he was guarding. He was always a step ahead.

Take last night for instance. Wes had a Rocket pinned in the corner, right along the baseline. If Wes is going to be a very good defender, then at the very least he should force his man to the baseline to make a tough decision of whether or not to spin back and try to get to the lane or have to jump in the air and attempt a shot or a pass. What happened? The player Wes was guarding slipped past him on the baseline and got off a good shot attempt (I don’t remember if the guy made the shot or not).

Defending at a high level in the NBA takes a lot of physical talent and a high basketball IQ. Wes struggles with basic basketball maneuvers yet some think he has high upside as a defender. I imagine these are the same people who thought Jonny Flynn could’ve played shooting guard next to Ricky.

and then there is the good ol’ fashioned eye test and i’ll be damned if my eye don’t reckon me a star in tha makin, by god

Only because Jonny had the ball more and had Kurt Rambis not adjusting at all. And we have other good players now to make up for a Wes.

Ok, that’s 3 things and I said Only.

I know Jonny got hurt and all but the last Only is that he doesn’t even see the floor now. Maybe Wes wouldn’t too if Wolves had more options, I suppose.

Both seem to have a mental issue — Wes, too little confidence and Jonny unfounded confidence when he was pre-injury bad as a Wolf.

That’s my last only.

considering the interest many of the forum had on picking up Smith, undeniably a talented offensive threat but an equally unquestioned head case; has anyone ever suggested picking up Al Thornton? There are lots of reasons this would option would be shakey… low BBIQ, highest among them, but his defense and assists did improve with GState, and he had some moments with Washington. What he can do is score. No question. He is currently recovering from a knee injury, but his rehab is ending and he will be looking to get back into the league soon. His fall from grace, Clipper first option to oft traded bench extra may have given him some food for thought concerning his shortcomings. Decided shortcomings indeed, however there was never much question about his offensive productivity. I know there are myriad reasons why not, but are there other reasons why?

are similar, with Thornton slightly leading in most areas. Thornton does however score more effectively, and way more often. His three point shooting is weak, that goes to Wes, but he gets to the foul line more and is better from there. Perhaps more importantly, he’s had time to consider the whys of his drop-off. He’s got to realize that he’s not the wunderkind he once was. Maybe he’s now smart enough to compensate in those weaker areas. He might be grateful just to get back into the league, and so be willing to do whatever a coach might ask.

…about the Wolves right now is what I’m hearing Papa Glen’s view is of the team right now. All the rumblings I’ve heard here and through a couple buddies who work with the team is that he doesn’t see the need to make a big trade.

Glen even still trusts Kahn to some degree to still being worthwhile to listen to on basketball decisions. Make no mistake about it, Kahn still resents the fact that Jonny didn’t work out and will do everything he can to give Wes as much time as he can.

As for all of those Wes defenders who ripped my last post, I’m a partial season ticket holder and have been for the past three seasons. I love this team but am incredibly sick and tired of watching horrific wing play cost us a playoff spot. I find myself going to Target Center and having names scroll through my head of guys who would probably be awesome here. Maybe I’m the only one who tortures themselves by doing that.

With the number we have in our hands only can be viewed as the measure of the problem we have in the wings.

We are screwed. Plain and simple.

In any other team of the globe people would be throwing a name: “Replace him with …”