So close/So far
That was one of the most entertaining games we've had to watch in a long, long time. It wasn't the prettiest affair (both teams had eFGs below 50%, with the Wolves flirting with a sub 40% efg night...which is just insane) but it had few turnovers (18 combined), lots of hustle (Philly's perimeter players are everywhere), and some last-minute heroics (seriously, is there a better word to use here?) from Love turned this recap from being a downer bit about horrific wing production and Adelman's weird allegiance to the zone and...well, who am I kidding?
Let's just get this out of the way first: The Wolves starting SF had 0 points and 2 rebounds. The trio of Wes Johnson, Michael Beasley, and Martel Webster combined for 3-13 shooting with 9 boards, 7 points, and 6 blks/stls in 55 combined minutes. If people have the tugging need to boil season-long trends down to a single game, this was probably the game to highlight for the whole "they really need a wing" bit.
Kevin Love came out of the gate not being able to hit the broad side of a barn. Nikola Pekovic was unable to get rolling early. Philly was killing Minny on the boards. How did the Wolves make it through this stretch? They relied on the production of their rookie point guard.
In the 3rd quarter Pek got things rolling inside and off of the pick and roll. His awesome production powered them through this stretch of the game.
In the 4th, Love showed up with a bunch of points to seal the deal. His awesome production put them over the top.
Rubio, Pek, Love.
Now throw in some ok production from JJ Barea and Luke Ridnour and the Wolves have a single game built on the backs of their 3 awesome peformers and their 2 ok ones. And....
Last year was a comically bad experience. It was frustrating but easy to write off due to the near-historic nature of the awfulness. This year is more of a real world frustration. Yes, the team is better. They are exciting to watch and they're winning and it's fun to go to games and...well, it's a bit like watching a guy with 1 arm behind his back swing a golf club. Yeah, it's really cool that he's able to do it, but he'd probably have better luck with both arms.
This team could make the playoffs with a solid wing player. They could do it this year. With each passing game, that "win now" window shrinks off into next season. Yes, I'm happy that they're finally good again. I'm also a bit chapped that they aren't taking a swifter approach to address the 1 glaring flaw on the roster: the wing. You never know what will happen in the future. Love could break a leg, Ricky could start eating Vaseline, and Pek could go on a multi-state murder rampage. Win when you can while you can.
Unfortunately, the "off on the horizon" approach seems to be popular over at 600 First Avenue. They got their best player to sign a 3 year deal with an ETO and they don't want to "sacrifice future cap flexibility" by..well, I don't know. That money is only good for what you can get with it and it is of little use for things that don't yet exist.
This is a playoff team being anchored down by an obvious and fixable problem. That's incredibly exciting and amazingly frustrating all at the same time. It is so in wins and loses.
Random game thoughts:
- Jrue Holiday is a really fun player to watch. He doesn't have Rubio's passing ability or handle but his frame is similar (loonnnnggg arms) and he's crafty at age 21. Apparently Doug Collins has been urging Holiday to be more aggressive for his own shot. Tonight, he got into a Russell Westbrook esque back-and-forth with Ricky Rubio and I think it kind of took away from some of the matchup problems Philly could have forced with Iggy and, especially, Thad Young. I'm all about Kevin Love but Love simply can't guard Young on the wing or in the open court.
- On the post game radio broadcast it was mentioned that Adelman's approach to this game was to limit the Sixers transition opportunities. Maybe this was the reason why Young and Iggy never got rolling. Maybe this was the reason why the Wolves had issues on the boards with poor numbers from their perimeter players. However, looking at Synergy it looks like the Sixers had 17 transition opportunities last night, which is good for 16.5% of their plays on 46.2% shooting. For the season, 14.9% of their opportunities are in transition for 51% shooting. Did the defensive strategy contribute to the rebounds and Iggy/Young inability to beast? Hopefully, these are the sorts of things the team is following up on in their post game break downs. Maybe there is a perfectly good reason for the bad wing play during this game.
- Ricky Rubio is stupid good at basketball. As is almost always the case, my favorite Rubio play is some sort of little thing that he does that sets up a much larger play. Tonight's favorite play was when he (I think) stole the ball and was off on a 2-2 break with Ridnour. They were both on the left side of the court and he slightly put on the breaks so Love could get into the action and properly space the floor so Rubio was in the middle with Love on the right and Ridnour on the left. Once the defense collapsed towards the better player on the right, Rubio gave a slight body fake towards Love before hitting Ridnour for the open 3. He does this sort of thing on damn near every play. The Wolves should run a Ricky's Little Things basketball camp with video of him setting up other players for steals by pretending to blow by them only to pop back in front of them unexpectedly or how he makes his cross overs exactly when the defender is about to pick up his off foot (i.e. when the defender has the least amount of push off power).
- Don't look now but Adelman's rotation is shortening. If the team needs to win games (and I think it's pretty obvious they're making a big deal out of these last 4 games before the All Star break), they're going to hand out enormous minutes to Love, Rubio, Pek, Ridnour, Barea, and whatever wing pairing is the least dysfunctional for the night.
- Both teams ended up with 14 oreb and 34 dreb.
- This game was almost an awesome example of the relationship between poor shooting and turnovers vis-a-vis winning. The Wolves shot 9-23 in the first with 3 tos, 8-21 in the 2nd with 4 tos, 8-20 in the 3rd with 2 turnovers, and 8-21 in the 4th with 1 turnover. In the 2nd and 4th the Wolves had a .380 efg. In the 2nd the Sixers had an efg of .420 with 1 TO. In the 4th they were 7-19 with a .447 efg and 3 TO. In other words, the Sixers (with 15 missed shots, 6 oreb, and 1 turnover) had 10 failed possessions in the 2nd quarter and ended up with 25 points. The Wolves (with 13 missed shots, 5 oreb and 4 TOs) had 12 failed possessions in the 2nd quarter and ended up with 22 points. The Sixers closed the game with (12 missed shots, 1 oreb, 3 TO) 14 failed possessions and 17 points while the Wolves finished with (13 missed shots, 1 oreb, 1 TO) 13 failed possessions and 20 points. Be on the lookout for games with equal turnover numbers or equal shooting numbers through all 4 quarters.
470 comments
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I have no faith they'll get a wing this year but hey, go team.
Nice analysis.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
LMAO
https://p.twimg.com/AmEpaltCAAIfSrS.jpg:large
"David Kahn doesn't like it, so I'm going to keep it." - Kevin Love on growing his beard.
!https://p.twimg.com/AmEpaltCAAIfSrS.jpg:small!

"David Kahn doesn't like it, so I'm going to keep it." - Kevin Love on growing his beard.
by GWST11 on Feb 19, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
He looks a lot different
when that awesome hair is covered up.
I love the Hawk!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 19, 2012 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
Additionally
it seems like Brad Miller is having an absolute blast this season. Never has to play, has a coach he’s comfortable with, and just gets hang out and trave with a seemingly fun group of young guys.
I've noticed him doing a lot of teaching with the bigs
… especially with Pek. That’s a good thing.
Yeah, love having him on our team
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
too awesome
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 19, 2012 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
Wes...
Showed more effort getting into this pic than he does at basketball..
"Tremble puny humans!!! One day my race will destroy you all!!!"
by mutleyil on Feb 19, 2012 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They asked Pek to stay put for the picture
because if he got up he would have rocked the plane and woken Beasley.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 19, 2012 11:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not smart enough for that.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 19, 2012 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
these guys can't fit on the plane
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Pek
flies in C-130 class.
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
by uncle rico on Feb 20, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Is that Bill Cosby between Love and Miller
or is it AR actually trying to crack a smile? I don’t recognize him without the sad face.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 20, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Sigh...
Bad luck for Anthony. Love blows up even more and Pek turns into a monster who can suddenly stay on the court while he’s struggling to find his shot… in a contract year.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Which Anthony?
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 19, 2012 11:45 PM CST up reply actions
Indeed.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Read my thoughts on Creighton University athletics at Creightonian.com
I also edit things at Ridiculous Upside. Check it out.
Last one lol

"David Kahn doesn't like it, so I'm going to keep it." - Kevin Love on growing his beard.
by GWST11 on Feb 19, 2012 11:44 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
The more I see Martell
the more he looks like a member of Fishbone. Plus, Fishbone is awesome!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 19, 2012 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
He’d fit in with Living Colour as well.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
If there's a Cult of Personality on the team
It’s around Pek.
+1
I like it. I saw a show once in Portland where they opened up for King’s X. Fishbone put on a great show but King’s X put on one of the greatest performances I have ever seen. Maybe I see a little young Dug Pinnick there as well.
Yeah, I made the Dug comp last week and nobody bit.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
I can't believe I missed that.
We have a number of King’s X fans on here, we all dropped the ball on that one. I wonder if he has ever heard the comparison?
King's X! I forgot all about them.
I guess I’ll have to go and spend my afternoon listening to Gretchen Goes to Nebraska.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Really?
I always had you pegged as an ICP guy.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
by nja700 on Feb 20, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
In my first semester teaching
I was surveying my students about their musical tastes, and one girl said, “I like ICP!”
My response was, “What is an ‘ICP’?”
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Someone actually likes ICP in a non-ironic way?
My world just changed.
"If you’ve got some balls, you can do some stuff"
I predict...
The biggest ever post-game thread, based on these pics. And Ricky is even more awesome….
"Tremble puny humans!!! One day my race will destroy you all!!!"
We need a "Caption This" contest based on this photo...
My submission: HA!. Acqi esta Ricky con los Americanos Marihuaneros….
"Tremble puny humans!!! One day my race will destroy you all!!!"
This picture tells me 2 things...
Ricky Rubio is having fun with this team. And Michael Beasley is a totally stoned a-hole.
"Tremble puny humans!!! One day my race will destroy you all!!!"
I've tried looking at that picture at just about every angle...
And I can’t find that second part anywhere in there.
by LoveTo on Feb 20, 2012 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 12 recs
I like the fact that CH is such an open forum where different philosphies and opinions are accepted and allowed to be debated upon
But your statement is both asinine and without merit.
I've got good judgement from experience and experience from bad judgement.
by ArchAngel79 on Feb 20, 2012 6:58 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Not really,
he can have any opinion he wants, and has the right to post it. You only give it credence when you also post an “asinine” comment yourself
Or ... he is really tired?
Sheesh
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 20, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Great write-up
The Rubio bit is exactly right. The small stuff he does is a revelation. The way he creates spacing with subtle shifts. I especially have taken to noticing how he creates space and angles with just little body leans. He’s so good at getting the defense to move just enough, or even shift their attention just enough to create something.
It’s really remarkable. He does it at the defensive end too. What a player.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 19, 2012 11:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Just noticing that too...
His knowledge of the passing lanes on offense is exactly what makes him great on D. He knows what the other team’s PG is doing before they do… And he exploits it.
"Tremble puny humans!!! One day my race will destroy you all!!!"
Yep.
I keep barking about Pek, but Ricky is truly a revelation. Without Ricky, Pek isn’t this year’s Pek (though I think he’d still be good), and the team doesn’t have anywhere near the competence they’ve shown so far.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 19, 2012 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
Moreover, without Ricky, we'd probably have drafted Brandon Knight.
Now try to imagine him running our offense and shooting 4 for 12 every night. Then again, maybe Pek would have even more flourished, going for all those brick shots. 8 offensive rebounds per night, minimum. Imagine that!
by bluedevil_unicorno on Feb 20, 2012 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
Dude... without Ricky? Can you imagine Luke or JJ feeding anoyone in the post?
Maybe a little Love, but Pek would be left to clean up scraps at the rim.
Yep.
It would be like last year with fewer three-second calls and (maybe) fewer fouls.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
Ricky is the heart of this team.
If our wing wasn’t full of suck, we’d be doing a lot better. How many WIDE OPEN threes has Wes missed? A goodly portion of those were set up either directly or indirectly from Rubio’s play-making abilities. Pek has been simply awesome, but due respect to the Unicorn.
A good question is what the Wolves poor 3pt shooting has cost them
There are complications, but assuming they were making 3s at a league average rate, and they had the same number of attempts they actually do have, they would have made almost 16 more 3s on the season than the actually have.
About 47 points worth of 3s, but that overstates the impact, obviously. Still, it could be a point a game, which is a pretty big deal. An extra point scored a game would almost certainly have them at 18 or 19 wins.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 20, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
EIGHT CLOSE LOSSES
I define close as 6 points (2 reasonable possessions) or less. i know there’s flaws with this, but…
+7 wins = 8
close wins = 2
-7 losses = 8
close losses = 8
i hope the close wins match the close losses after the All-Star break.
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
sorry, counted wrong spreadsheet column...
+7 wins = 13
close wins = 3
-7 losses = 8
close losses = 8
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
Impressive admission.
“I keep barking about Pek, but Ricky is truly a revelation”
I agree too. If I ever get the chance though, I will tell Pek you defended him above all others until the end. You deserve at least that for driving the wagon.
This play made me think about that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG6bel-SKhc
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
That play also highlights what we need out a wing.
It is not a ton to ask to get the ball in that situation and get to the line and score, but most times Wes butchers that.
This is what people miss about the flashy Catalans in his game.
Yep, it’s a faked behind the back pass. But no, Rubio isn’t doing it ‘cause he can. He’s buying Wes space.
And why it is that we can see him doing it so clearly, see his intentions and how he’s reading things, I don’t know…. But that’s just so fun, and special. Maybe having the proportions of a muppet is part of what makes his game so readable. Just…. What fun.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
That is just absurd
I’m also still reeling from that behind-the-back-with-english feed to Love the other night.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 20, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
that was an absolutel
thing of beauty to seal the game off. it is even more remarkable when yo see that he is turning away from love just as love starts his cut to the basket. to see love, and then to get the ball there while essentially corralling it with one hand and passing, and since his body is twisting, he needs the ball to bounce towards the cutting Love, or the ball wont get to him in a spot where love can make a play. just awesome!
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Feb 20, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
thx for the writeup
2 more unselfish teams coming up. hope both result in the same outcome… a W. entertaining game.
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
I wonder if we can turn a Wes or an Ellington into a Tmac. He still can outshoot any of our players blindfolded and on a single leg and on a veteran minimum salary
He played quite well against us and looked healthy. And let’s face it, he’s probably the best we can get for Wes
by bluedevil_unicorno on Feb 20, 2012 12:14 AM CST reply actions
yessir. I thought he would be a good cheap option as a vet
during the quick free agency period. He is unhappy in ATL right now. Try and get em’ for the low.
"Wes Johnson is quite possibly the worst player in the NBA" - Everyone
by AndrePatterson on Feb 20, 2012 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
I've been waiting for an SnP photo caption-hijack for some time now
It’s been a while, unless I’ve missed something.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
Just printed off the Western Conference standings.
We are 1 GAME out of the 8th playoff spot. It’s been a long time since I started to feel the need to root against other teams so that our pups can make it into the playoff race. Houston, Portland, Denver, Utah. Something tells me the last game of the season could be an important one.
On another note- we are ONE WIN away from tying last season’s win total in 82. Anyone think we can do it? %
Love to see us get in front of Denver and Utah with a win tomorrow. Denver went overtime tonight, and I’m encouraged that we may see a good one, and a statement game.
I’d prefer not to have another nail-biter like tonight (however good it felt to come through). I hate stress. :0)
Still have my Foye jersey. Hey- at least she TRIED! :--)
"On another note- we are ONE WIN away from tying last season’s win total in 82."
On a sobering note, since we finished last season on a 15-game losing streak, we really won those 17 games in 67 tries. I like 17 in 33 better.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
I think Rubio matches up really well against Ty Lawson. Their 2pg rotation vs our 2pg rotation. Gonna be interesting
In fact, I think we match up with them really well in all positions.
C: Pek > Mozgov+Koufus (Nene: Injured)
PF: Love > Farried+Al Harrington (Gallinari: Injured)
SF: Nobody = Nobody
SG: Luke/Webster = A Miller/Affallo
PG: Ricky > Lawson
Crazy bench player: Pothead > Birdman
Coach: RA = Carl
by bluedevil_unicorno on Feb 20, 2012 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
(Requiescat in Pace, Rocky Mountain News.)
Been closed maybe five years now. Great paper.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Wait.
Shouldn’t “Pothead>Birdman” read “Pothead>Pothead”?
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 12:45 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah,
you’d have to be on LSD and PCP to agree to those tattoos.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
Not having Nene and Danilo makes a big difference but...
I still think even if they had these players it would be a real good match-up. The Nuggets are real deep, but I think the way our front court is playing right now it’ll be too much for them without their center and PF. Although I thought Gallinari was a SF.
Speaking of Gallo
He’s an RFA this offseason, isn’t he? Or did he sign an extension with Denver? If not, he and Batum have to be on the top of our wish list.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 20, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
He extended
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
True, we do match up well
Miller and Affallo are definitely better than Luke and Webster though.
While we're checking the standings, where is the Clippergeddon/NOH pick sitting just now?
There are 11 teams with worse records. New York, Boston, and Utah are all at .500 too, though the Celtics and Jazz are only 15-15.
(Holy cow would I do a somersault if the change in draft position this year came down to a coin flip. Long way to go, though, and obviously we don’t get to keep the pick unless Utah’s later than the 14th pick.)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Holiday is legit
I’ve been a fan of his ever since he showed out at the high school showcase at the Target Center
He was fourth on my list that draft, behind Steph Curry, James Harden, and Hasheem Thabeet (Evans was a lock to go to the Kings, and I assumed Rubio would go to the Grizzlies or Thunder)
Just finished watching the game
And that was my first thought about the game too (aside from Wooo! We Won!) Holiday brings the ruckus. So fast. So agile. Overall the 76ers have many skilled wing and backcourt players.
Way to go manning up on the Thabeet pick.
I liked Holiday in that draft, too. I think he would have been my guy in that #6 spot if they really were too gunshy on Curry (I still have to believe the FO saw a Foye 2.0 possibility with him, since they doubted his abilities at the point). Better still, with Holiday sliding down the draft board they could have turned the Lawson pick into Holiday and still have taken anyone else at #6. The Flynn/Rubio backcourt was preposterous, but I could see the Rubio/Holiday backcourt with an outside shooting SF could fly. Yes, I would rather have a traditional 2, but that would be a great defensive pairing and miles better than the Ridnour or Barea nonsense we’ve been trotting out there. He was the youngest guy in the draft, he was a buy low guy who would have matured on the Rubio/Pek timeline and could be dealt high now or kept in Ridnour’s current role as Ricky’s partner/backup.
Holiday/Ricky would be very nice
You’d want a shooter at the 3, but those guys would be awesome defensively and Holiday looked great when his main task was getting buckets vs. running the offense. He works well on that team because Iggy/Turner can both handle and set guys up so he has plenty of room to just freelance and score.
I wish we had a few athletes like Holiday/Iggy on the defensive end, that’s for sure.
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
I had Thabeet off my board
Hated him. But I had Tyreke Evans after Griffin and Rubio. I did really like Jrue as a pick at 18 if he lasted.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
And Curry, to me
Was a tweener who would play best like his father. Instant offense off the bench.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
I hated Tyreke and Thabeet
I’m a little rigid on the PG and SG spots. I like PGs that can create for others and I like SGs that can shoot. However I was not as sure that Tyreke was a bad pick as I was sure about Thabeet.
On ESPN.com's NBA poll...
the question is Who is the MVP of the first half of the season? The options are Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Derrick Rose, and Someone else.
Minnesota is the only state to vote for Someone else.
by LoveTo on Feb 20, 2012 12:42 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
I vote LBJ
But if I could use a vote to negate someone, I would vote Kobe.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 1:06 AM CST up reply actions
Has kind of an '84 Election vibe
Minnesota is the only state to vote for Someone else
We were right then, and we’re right now*
*this denotes that Son of Gerald Green’s comment was a flippant comment on a sports message board and does not want to endorse or advocate for a political point of view on a website with complete strangers. Thank you as always for your time, and God Bless America
Chazz Reinhold: Mom?? MOM!! What is she doing back there? I never know what she's doing.
by Son of Gerald Green on Feb 20, 2012 8:13 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
No flag pin in your sig line, commie.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
he doesn't drink fluoridated water either
I bet
"Humor is reason gone mad." Marx (Groucho, for the reason-gone-mad impaired)
Do people still drink mineral water
after “Heathers”?
by midlife crisis on Feb 20, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
You can't argue that 25-15 a night doesn't deserve some consideration
If the T-Wolves make the play-offs I think the writer’s will come along and give him some consideration. They can stay he is stat stuffing, but at the same time he has the talent to score and rebound like he does and deserves credit for it.
Well
one could just as well argue that Kobe or LBJ are “stat stuffing” by jacking up all those shots. really those writers have no imagination. just regurgitate the same stuff over and over, and cry into your scotch if someone retires so you are forced to think “who next?” I am not saying those guys aren’t good, they obviously are, but that is the same list from a year ago, and the year before that. for cris’ sake it took the coaches to vote Love into the all star game even after all he did last year and continues to do this year.
If you don’t play for a super market, or where all ready a superstar (before you even played one game!) then the national media has no time for you.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Feb 20, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
Nope.
Sam Jacobson.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Very impressed with Phila tonight
They seem to work so well together. Protect the ball. Score on turnovers. Execute effectively. Extreme defensive intensity. Release on the break very quickly. No superstars, but many quite good players. Iggy, Brand, Young and Holiday are not chopped liver. The story of Elton Brand’s career arc would probably make a good movie. I also recall the extended discussions here on how important it was for the Wolves to move to acquire Evan Turner in 2010 draft. I guess it’s a good thing none of that came to fruition. Heated pre-draft rhetoric is trumpeted loudly when it works out, but dismissed as if it never happened when it doesn’t.
I don't know
Moving to acquire Turner still seems like it would have been a pretty good idea.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 20, 2012 1:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I think I’d give up DWill.
Maybe they would sweeten, maybe they would decline.
by WinTheLottery on Feb 20, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
It's sad to see Elton Brand be a mere shell of his former self. Imagine Philly with the Elton Brand..
they thought they were signing.
nonetheless, they are going to be a handful in the Eastern Conference playoffs
Likely finalists: Chicago and Miami
Nightmares to play with a reasonable chance at spoiling the party: New York, Indiana and Philadelphia
Teams with an outside chance of making the conference finals: Orlando and Boston
Team that will get dumped in the first round for sure: Atlanta unless Horford comes back in time, then I would move them up to Orlando and Boston level.
It’s actually interesting looking at this list because the Eastern Conference Playoffs are going to be really good. Similarly, the Western Conference Playoffs are likely to be outstanding.
Why did they think they were signing that one, though?
Brand and Arenas were big-time “Did they hear about the injury?” questions.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
I'm not sure why they thought he would return from injury in full force,
but they most certainly did
Great work SnP, Oceanary, and TimAllen
Just want to say that I appreciate all the work you guys put into your write-ups. Really a great site for a displaced Wolves fan (east coast).
Now lets get a wing. Can we occupy Target Center or something? I would fly in for that.
Where on east coast?
I’m stuck in NYC with Knicks and Yankees fans…
by PoohRichardson on Feb 20, 2012 1:36 AM CST up reply actions
Ooooh.
That has to be particularly Linsufferable.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 1:58 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
While I don't disagree that we need a wing player...
it’s a little interesting how the theme has shifted. It was “Love + 2 above-average players” until Pekovic emerged and suddenly we had that, at which point it became the need for a wing.
A very good wing makes us a contender...
Average wing play or just a very good 3 point shooter makes us a sure playoff team this year, we might be one with ridiculous futile wing production.
by Pass the rock on Feb 20, 2012 1:18 AM CST up reply actions
I think it was
Love + 2 above average players = competent pro ball. Maybe I’m misremembering but that’s what I remember writing. I’m not trying to thread the needle and I had no clue Rubio and Pek would be this good, but I don’t think I’ve shifted the theme/moved the goalposts here. We’re seeing competent pro ball. We could be very easily watching a solid playoff team.
Maybe it’s just me being greedy but now that they’re competent while having such an anchor on the wing…well, they’re sooooooo close to really being a team that matters.
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 20, 2012 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I think most of us get your drift
May be people want you to roll around in the competence a bit more (to use your phrasing) and enjoy the fact we are watching honest-to-pete competitive basketball. You’ve moved quickly to the damn-we-good-be-really-good-if-only phase quickly. I feel the same way. It’s one really good move or two decent moves at positions that aren’t that hard to find, yet we seem to struggle mightily with it.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 20, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Im with SnP
I never want to wallow in mediocrity just because we were downright trash for so long. The goal is and always will be a championship, not to not suck.
I know its nice to win games, but honestly if were not always striving to get better then whats the point
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Since the day of the trade for #5, the imbalance of the roster has been stark.
Even the roster back then, taking Pecherov back in the deal, was heavy on PF talent and low on guards and shooting forwards. It’s been three seasons. This isn’t a theme resulting from goalpost moves carried out this week.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
+1
In so many ways.
They have possibility to win now and improve now in so many ways without sacrificing the franchise but seem to be happy at a winning trajectory rather than maximizing it.
Frustrating.
Interesting observation regarding rotations
Long gone are the days of 11 players getting minutes in the first quarter.
Eight used in Houston, nine plus a cameo firom Darko . Doesn’t bode well for Randolph, Tolliver, Darko, etc.
Was Lee court side tonight?
I think this is the first time in history one man managed to destroy an entire city by himself. Even the Enola Gay had a flight crew.
Not to sound like a party pooper
But people get hurt. There are a
Lot of games left
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 2:29 AM CST up reply actions
.1 seconds seemed like an eternity to have Darko out there
I was shocked he even had a uniform on under his warm ups with how little he has seen the floor lately.
Interesting note from the game...
Adelman in 32 games is halfway to the victory total of predecessor Kurt Rambis, who coached 164 games here.
Nothing to those numbers, whatsoever. %%%%%%%
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 3:05 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, but....
Rambis had to get those wins running the triangle with no wing or 2 guard so the level of difficulty on those 32 wins was through the roof!
bring back sam cassell, no one on this team has a decent giant testicle dance.
by tbone007420 on Feb 20, 2012 6:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This makes me want to sob uncontrollably.
"If you’ve got some balls, you can do some stuff"
by JonesTheCat on Feb 20, 2012 7:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sadly, the wing prolly isn't coming til this Summer
It’d better be Batum or Eric Gordon, or I’m callin for Kahnzies head. One of those two makes us a possible NBA champion with the right role players around Love, Ricky, and Pek.
U Ryke?
GET BATUM
Oh and I know it's gonna be hard
to land one of those two. But we have to go all out. You only have one chance to go for the ring. Can’t worry about “not overpaying” guys and value and all that shit. Fuck that shit. We gotta win.
U Ryke?
GET BATUM
I guess
But even of you ‘go all in’ there is a very good chance we don’t get those 2.
I want a wing, but there is a lot more to it
by TO12 on Feb 20, 2012 7:54 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Those are the guys that fit the team perfect
and are at least semi-available. This is a present time solution. Can’t afford to gamble on rookies when the clock is ticking on Kevin Love’s opt-out. It’s a risk, but it needs to be taken. Even if we have to pay more than any other team would be willing to. Just my opinion.
U Ryke?
GET BATUM
Yes on Batum, no on Gordon.
I have a hard time giving Gordon the type of money he is going to command to someone that I know is incapable of playing 82 games.
Gordon's asking price
has probably gone down a little bit, since he got hurt again. I think we could land him for a reasonable price as opposed to the max deal he would have gotten had he been healthy all year. I’d pay 10 or 11 million per for Eric Gordon in a heartbeat.
U Ryke?
GET BATUM
The word on Adleman when he signed was that he wasn’t into sacrificing wins in order to develop players in Houston. If he’s the personnel guy and Kahn the spokesman like many on this board have theorized, then Kann’s job is to say there’s no trade, whether there is one developing or not.
I'm not close to the organization at all
But I doubt Kahn has lost all his power or something like that. I wouldn’t mind if he did, but I doubt it.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 8:42 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think power is an issue
It’s a team, Adelman and sons are the talent guys, and Kahn can contribute logistics. I don’t think Kahn minds that in the least…it fits him, and I’m sure he respects the acumen of team Adelman.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
I hope this is how things work
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
SnP... I like all of your write-ups, but I truly enjoyed this one..
It is the best write-up you’ve done in some time in my humble opinion, and I thank you for that. I admittedly skipped over the majority of your Wes post only because I have “Wes Johnson Sucks” fatigue even though it seems to be true. It almost feels like I’m kicking a crippled dog when I rip into him nowadays so I’m trying not to.
I also am trying to refrain from speaking badly of Luke as I have before when his defense is suspect...
but this is easier because I think I was a bit wrong about him. His defense has definitely improved and he’s not playing the point guard role excessively when Ricky is in.
Luke has always been really nice at getting his hands on balls on defense
He does get burned off the dribble but I don’t know if he’s as bad as he’s made out to be
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
The problem is Luke is a much better PG than JJ
We should probably have Luke running the second team and give JJ more 2 Gaurd minutes with the starters but it might kill us defensively.
However, I respect JJ, he can score points and he impregnated a Miss Universe.
+1
I’d like to see Ellington get more minutes too. He has flaws but he can hit open shots.
by Darth Tugits on Feb 20, 2012 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
Wes' effort on Iggy
has probably been overlooked post-game. It looked like he did a pretty good job in the half-court D on him, which is a pretty commendable contribution to the win. Unfortunately I have no tangible evidence to support my observation, but the dude needs some support and there has to be some reason Adelman is starting him.
I watched for this after yesterday's post
And did not see it. Iggy pretty much got what he wanted when Holiday let him have the ball. J Pete even made a very non FSN note of it in the 3rd after saying that Wes, at that time, had 1 more rebound than the announcing crew.
I generally think JPete pretty much perfectly treads the line between support and honest criticism.
"If you’ve got some balls, you can do some stuff"
by JonesTheCat on Feb 20, 2012 7:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed, he's really a pro.
The occasions when games are televised and they let Alan Horton and Jim Pete work together on the radio used to be pretty nice. Is that happening this year?
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Yup
Always speaks his mind, I love it. Even when the team was horrible like the end of last year, he still just puts it out there whether or not its supporting the organization or not. It’s nice to have someone who says what a lot of the fans are thinking
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
Since he started coaching...
…he’s really turned it on as an announcer. Reuuussseeee had an article about FSN a few weeks ago that, I thought, needlessly placed J-Pete in the group of FSN homers. I watch a lot of league pass and he’s one of the better color guys out there.
Hanny and Pete are wonderful
Hanneman is just a classic hometown announcer. He has his 4 catch phrases that he goes to all the time, you know what you are getting from him.
Pete breaks it down wonderfully. He has done a great job of tactfully criticism the play of both Wes and Williams
I would actually argue his criticism of Beasley has been a bit harsh lol. I
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
It just feels like J-Pete skips all those FSN team meetings.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 20, 2012 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Love J-Pete
But on a side note, I normally watch on feeds since I dont have TV, but is Quincy Lewis normally on FSN. Because he was in a word awkward, but maybe that was just me.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
he's getting his feet wet
he’s real raw but has a lot of upside
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
His sentences are long and athletic
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 20, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and I hear he has a nice smile and firm handshake
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 20, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
J Pete nonchalanted one call, though.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
I'm surprised at how much CH
likes Jim Peterson. Maybe I will just never get over the loss of Trent Tucker but I really have never liked him much as an announcer- although I admit he has been getting better.
It just seems like whenever we go from being down 14 points to being down 8 points he acts like we have the other team right where we wanted them.
Yes, he has been critical of Wes and Beasley
Practically all year. Talking about the “good” and “bad” Beasley in reference to whether he is shooting long jumpers or something better. Mentioning that Wes needs to fill the box score more and that he might do better coming off the bench.
When even the team-paid color guy, who is also the asst coach for the sister WNBA team, is ripping your wings … you have bad wings.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 20, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Saying Wes needs to fill out a box score isn't that controversial, is it?
“Oliver Miller probably could have benefitted from losing a little weight” is a similarly controversial statement.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
agreed
While not incorrect, the ‘Wes sucks’ and ‘we need a wing’ campaigns have been repeated a little more than is enjoyable.
Not to call out SnP, or any in particular, but I think at this point we all know.
by TO12 on Feb 20, 2012 7:57 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
when you start doing write ups
I’ll read and respond to them too, but honestly man stop bitching.
what?
I was agreeing with another post, and specially noted that i wasn’t talking to SnP in particular. Nothing I said was out of line, and there was certainly no ‘bitching.’ I’m just going to have to assume you were trolling around for something to be mad at. I hope the rest of your day gets better.
by TO12 on Feb 20, 2012 8:26 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Because the kool aid doesn't work for everything.
A little story about Minnesota nice, tuna hot dish with the potato chips on top, and jello. At a small family gathering a few years back, two of my then 80 year old aunts laid out a characteristically huge spread for lunch. My California sister said, “Gee, If I’d have known we were going to have such a feast I would have brought a salad.” One of my aunts looked confused and said, “We have five kinds of Jello.” In Minnesota jello = salad.
Whenever it feels like it might get snarky around here I want to say, "Oh, now, hush, eat your jello.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 20, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
Coming from California to visit the MN relatives
my comment at the summer outdoor reunion spread was “how come the potato chips are soggy?”
Everyone knows but the team.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
by feral on Feb 20, 2012 8:24 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
So Ricky had the assist of the night. Again
The look on the faces of those three Sixer defenders is worth the cost of admission. I also love the little through the legs crossover to get himself some space. What a ball handler that man is.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Pek Decimates Jason Thompson
I am a huge sports fan, and I'm trying to recall if I've ever been as giddy about a player
as I am about Ricky. I was a huge fan of Barry Sanders, but he didn’t play for the Vikings. Adrian Peterson is my favorite Viking of all time, but for some reason he doesn’t evoke the same fervent admiration from me that Ricky does. And it goes beyond his preternatural passing ability. It’s his leadership, his incredible desire to win, the way he effortlessly elevates his game on both sides of the ball (I especially like it when he goes into “fuck this” mode and starts guarding everyone on defense), his humility, his recognition of his limitations and his desire to improve them, they way he loves his teammates, the way he treats the fans, his unassuming nature, etc. Yet, even with all of that, I think what really gets me is that I have a chance to watch this force of nature start and hopefully end his career as a Timberwolf. I get to witness his growth as a player on my favorite team. Some people may have felt similarly of Kevin Garnett, but for some reason I never did. I liked him, but no where near how much I already like Ricky.
by bsg007 on Feb 20, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I also find it a bit strange that, even though I like Kevin and am very glad he plays for the Wolves,
I don’t feel the same way about him as I do Ricky. I can’t quite put my finger on why that is.
Post players aren't as sexy as guards
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know what it is either
I was writing some stuff for that midterm you suggested and I was writing about Ricky Rubio and suddenly I realised I’d written about 700 words about how good he is at bounce passes.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Pek Decimates Jason Thompson
by Malastare on Feb 20, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
That's hilarious. Three pages or just less, on the bounce pass.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
5 out of the last 9 Assists of the Night
and that’s….our last 5 games.
Sooo, if he plays, he does it BETTER THAN ANYONE.
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Feb 20, 2012 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
yep
That assist last night speaks to what I wrote above about his subtle leans that create space. He leans and looks toward Love on the arc just enough to make Elton Brand lean that way which allows space for that pass to Pekovic. It’s pretty sweet.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 20, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
And another thing about that play
That he does is that he completely drops Holliday from the play. He takes the hand off moving from the right wing to the top. He sees that Holliday expects him to continue to dribble to the left over the Pek’s defender, so he reverses back toward the right. Holiday jumps totally out of the play expecting Rubio to keep coming left, and so fails to either stay with him or clog Pekovic rolling to the rim.
Several sweet instantaneous decisions by Rubio on that play.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 20, 2012 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
That behind the back
(out-of-bounds and/or over-and-back) pass. On one level it was no big deal but on another The Hands! The best part was the replay showed that just as he was about to do it that little smile crept over his face.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 20, 2012 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
I also have to wonder, how much of what we're seeing with Pek is Ricky?
And for that matter, as great as Kevin is, how much has Ricky impacted his game?
A little bit, but Pek deserves a ton of credit
He is an absolute monster at getting position, has a great post game, great foot work and can finish extremely well. He is assisted on a few of his buckets every night but credit him to getting in position and finishing.
Pek was an elite offensive C in Europe and showed last year that he had a killer postgame. I think that, like JPete said last night, if Ricky deserves any credit he deserves it for feeding the post when Pek was just starting to get minutes. Make no mistake, Rubio saw him in Europe several times so he knows how good of a player he is.
Also, as a comparison: Was Darko putting up at least 20/10 nightly because he had a lot of minutes with RR?
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
Pek/Love/Rubio all have one thing in common
they are smart basketball players
I think we are seeing the dichotomy of NBA basketball play out right before our eyes here in Minnesota. We got the mass talents in Randolph/Beasley/Darko and we got the Math Ballers….Math Ballers are winning out and winning games
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
MATH?
BBIQ != MATH
I don’t know or care what PEK/Love/Rubio OR Randolph/Beasley/Darko scored on the Math portion of the ACT. Irrelevance
by WinTheLottery on Feb 20, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Lol
Math Baller is a term I made up for someone that looks really good using Advance Stats
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
I think Luke and J.J. are pretty smart too, they just don't have as much to work with.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 20, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Kind of like mathcore metal.
It has nothing to do with math, but it seems to have nothing to do with art, so it must be math.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Math Ballers?
We don’t have Jeremy Lin..
Interviewer: Can you understand why teams value potential ahead of experience and accomplishment in the draft? Wes Johnson: "Yeah. I understand. It’s the youngness of everything – older guys like young women, so it’s the same way."
by Xand1 on Feb 20, 2012 12:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Very true on the Darko comparision
For me it’s a little more grey. Of course Peks deserves a ton of credit for even being ready for the extra minutes / touches / Rubio help. On the other hand Pek isn’t be ‘Dean Garrett’ed,’ he actually has a ton of skill, which he showed in Europe.
But I think Ricky has done a TON for Pek in terms of forcing the ball inside, and giving him 2-3 easy buckets a game. Either way, it’s a great pairing.
So, I go out of town away from streaming basketball action
and the Wolves get two quality wins! Beating Philly is, of course, the more impressive of the two, but beating Houston to take the series is much more enjoyable to me. If I were superstitious, I’d have to start leaving town more weekends…..
Nice writeup, SnP!
Ricky is lobbing at an Ooptimal level!
This might be an unpopular post...
… but I don’t know how thrilled I am with the final foul call. Was there contact? Yeah, probably. Was it as egregious as Love’s off-arm hook less than a second before? Not from my angle. If I had access to slow mo film or whatever, I’d maybe change my mind… but if the roles were reversed, I know I’d be really disappointed in that call. You gotta call the hook if you’re going to flag a pretty reasonable defensive effort. Seemed like the same ref with his eyes on both.
That said, it feels better to win than to lose. Suck it, Philly!
Basically they escaped with this one, whether or not we agree with the foul.
Loving players who get to the line isn’t the same as wanting games to end at the free throw stripe, for sure.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Looked like it was probably a foul
Usually they wouldn’t call something like that at the end of the game, but then again Iggy took a chance with the reachin.
The real problem was that the refs put basically no time on the clock for Philly to work with when there should have been a second left.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
No problem with saying it was probably a foul.
But I think you have to say that Love’s hook was probably a foul, too.
Didn't see that the first couple of times
Yeah, probably. Wolves got lucky with the foul + no time on the clock
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
they did
That foul probably doesn’t get called anymore than 50% of the time on that play, maybe less. But the main point is that Love took it to the hole and made a play happen. You want to make officials have to make a call, and he did that.
Questionable, indeed, but it’s fun to see Love be that 1A option and make such a big play in the clutch.
by TO12 on Feb 20, 2012 9:08 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I just think that the strength involved
In the contact (Even if it was all ball) convinced the ref he had to call something. Love’s momentum toward the rim was totally stymied. The ref knew he was screwed either way. How terrible would a jump ball call have been. If Kevin hadn’t hung on to the ball I think it would have been a no call.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 20, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
the previous play is irrelevant
other than for judging the officials, rather than the game.
Are you going to go back through the whole game and readjust the outcome by the charting the cascade of missed calls?
The last call was both accurate and not out of character with how the rest of the game was called in general. That’s about all you can ask and more than you often get. Whether they missed or didn’t miss a call earlier doesn’t affect that play or that call.
Having a 6 year old, I’m entirely unsympathetic to the ‘but someone else did something against the rules first and they didn’t get in trouble" argument for why they shouldn’t get in trouble for doing something against the rules.
by rickyp on Feb 20, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
One of the smart things about Love
is that he recognizes that games never EVER end on offensive foul calls
by midlife crisis on Feb 20, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91xfF1YwCcY
Ref has balls
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
manu didn't have to sell that one
He got hit in the chest pretty hard.
by midlife crisis on Feb 20, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Great game last night
I was playing mini robot wars with my son during commercials and making him suffer TWolves basketball in between rounds. It was nice to get a win even if it was ugly. I was quite happy with the big 3 and Luke in particular looked good.
One of these things is better than the other
I like this…
it feels better to win than to lose. Suck it, Philly!
so much better than this…
This might be an unpopular post…… but I don’t know how thrilled I am with the final foul call
so much losing all the way around for so many years, and the Vikes, and the Gophers, and the triangle last year – we deserve this win.
And yes, it was a foul
Chazz Reinhold: Mom?? MOM!! What is she doing back there? I never know what she's doing.
by Son of Gerald Green on Feb 20, 2012 8:21 AM CST reply actions
I would agree
Tough call though. Not a common last 4 seconds of the game call though. But whatever, Love took it to the hole and made the officials make a call. You can debate the call (and the Philly blog sure did, lol) but the fact is that Love made it happen. Go Wolves.
by TO12 on Feb 20, 2012 8:29 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
interestingly enough
there was a game on the same night that was decided on a last second foul/trip to the line (sac/cavs).
interesting indeed
I though about that as I typed out how uncommon it is.
by TO12 on Feb 20, 2012 9:03 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
also, Kyrie is surprisingly good.
I thought he’d be more along the lines of surprisingly consistent.
by TO12 on Feb 20, 2012 9:04 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Scary good shooter
Nash like, except he’s a rookie
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
the more he plays the more it hurts that we didn't get that pick
he would A) Be awesome playing next to Rubio and B) Have even crazier trade value than Williams
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
We would never once contemplate trading Irving
Him and Rubio would be our set back court
eh
I think you could get Harden for Irving, which in that case you’d have to do it
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
And why would OKC
rather run out Westbrook/Irving?
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Feb 20, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
well for starters they don't really run Westbrook/Harden
all that much either.
Harden plays 30 mpg and generally takes Westbrook’s place for the first 3 quarters.
Irving as a true point would essentially allow Westbrook to just play SG where it pretty much appears is his best position offensively.
Also Irving will be on a rookie deal for the next 4 years where as Harden will probably be making 15 million starting as soon as next year
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Last night, they played 43 and 39 minutes
and were on the court together for 30 of them.
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Feb 20, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They're not trading Harden
They don’t need to add or subtract anybody at this point. They are pure awesome.
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 20, 2012 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
you think he signs with them though?
is he going to turn down a max contract and the ability to start on any other team to take less money to come off the bench for OKC?
If Dallas can only get Deron Williams this off-season they could easily give Harden a max contract the following year, start him and run the West with that back court.
I don’t think Harden stays with OKC after next year. Whether they trade him or not is up for debate but he will get a max contract as an RFA that OKC will not be able to match (literally cause with Durant/Westbrook/Perkins they are pretty close to the cap as it stands)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
that was a supremely hypothetical take
but my point essentially is Harden can start on 28 teams in the NBA. He can probably get max money from 24 of them and have his choice of contending teams as well.
Indiana/Minnesota/Dallas/San Antonio/Utah/Boston/Denver/Portland will all more than likely be able to make max-contract room if they want and they are all teams that if Harden signed with would be instantly one of the best teams in the NBA. Why would he take less to come off the bench and have a marginalized role compared to what he is capable of doing?
it’s possible sure….but more money+bigger role+still an awesome playoff team=in my opinion probably leaving. math check anyone?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
for the record if I were the Thunder
I would do this deal
Orlando: Perkins/Westbrook/Mohommed/Sefalosha/Ibaka
OKC: Howard/Jameer Nelson/Ryan Anderson
and then sign Harden and get a new coach
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
(stares at the trade)
Damn….I think you might be onto something with that one. Though I think OKC’d want to try and keep Ibaka and Orlando would want to get rid of Turkeyglue. But overall, one of your better ideas.
Also, stop pining for Harden.
And I don’t understand the crap Scott Brooks gets. Like, what hasn’t he done there? In 2 seasons he’s taken them from the lottery to the conference finals, yet so many people think “he can’t do it.” He’s not a problem.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Feb 20, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
I just don't see
what issue he has playing Harden all the time. 30 mpg is ridiculous. If you don’t see that Harden and Westbrook are an insanely good compliment I don’t think you can be considered a good coach. Harden is also a fine defensive player, there is just no good rationalization
He complains about defense when the obvious flaw in OKC is that they start 3 players that can’t score on anyone unless Ibaka is getting an oop.
He reminds me of Scott Skiles and Tubby Smith a little bit that he has this short sighted view of basketball. I think it works for young teams on the rise, but not with teams that need to buckle down and win championships.
now with that trade. I think OKC moves Ibaka cause they get Anderson who would be that stretch 4 that they need and Dwight gives them enough post defense to part with Ibaka and Perkins
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
It's so very early for Brooks's job to be in play at all, yeah.
People have no attention spans.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
They can match if they want
Since hes theirs they have his Bird rights so they are the only team that can sign him and go over the cap. If they stay below the tax limit what downside does their owner have in keeping a winning team together. Correct me if I am wrong but the tax limit sits at 70 mil. They owner might get leary of paying Ibaka and Harden max but he can do it.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
Well..
…that game was a tad different in that Reke had a brain fart and thought the Kings had a foul to give. Team leader!
I know we've earned some lucky bounces with our recent sufferings as fans...
… and I don’t even dispute that it was a foul. Just saying that Love’s hook was every bit as much deserving of a whistle, at least when I watch it. Glad to get the win, wish we wouldn’t have needed a (very rare) last-second whistle to snag it.
Suck it, Philly!
No Mention of Foul
How do you write a sum up of the game and not even touch upon the questionable call. You gotta put bias aside. I’ve watched the video a dozen times and can’t find any contact Iguodala makes with Love besides the ball. Maybe you could say just barely, just barely the forearm. You have got to be kidding me. Look at this from the other side of the spectrum and imagine if it were the other way around.
Were the refs making any of these calls all night (besides when JJ flopped)? A ref can not decide the game in the waning moments as such.
Not saying your write up was bad (it was definitely worth reading and well written) You should really put some focus on the DECIDING factor of the game.
Tough call but
Ass Iggy has his hand on the ball his arm was in contact with Love’s, which kind of threw him off balance. Is that a foul? Guess that’s up to the ref. Also, in real time, that’s a tough call for the ref to make. Iggy took a chance with his reachin and paid for it.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
Iggy Held Love's Arm
I recorded the game, and watched that play in super-slo-mo. At first, Iggy has his hand clearly on the ball, but as Love moves away from him and toward the basket, Iggy’s hand moved off of the ball and he grabbed onto Love’s arm just as Love was trying to go up for the shot. So, given my super slo-mo view of the play, I’d say it was a good call by the ref.
That's not how SnP rolls
There are game stories in the paper for that sort of thing. The call was what it was, either it was right or wrong. That one moment is much less interesting than a full game’s worth or season’s worth of observations.
As for that call…yeah, tough. Look, every fan base in the league thinks it gets done by the refs, and every fan base can point to specific calls that changed outcomes against them. Believe me, I know of what you speak. The Wolves absolutely had the Heat beat early this season until a brutal and-1 call for Lebron that absolutely should have gone the other way.
It’s the way it goes. I think you have to take the positives and negatives in any game from your team’s play, and whatever the refs do they do.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 20, 2012 9:01 AM CST up reply actions
The comment about the Miami game is on point.
That was definitely bullshit, and makes me feel better about sneaking away with last night.
Some nights you gotta be good enuff to beat the other team and the refs.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 20, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
That call from the Miami game was terrible in so many ways
and got about one line at the bottom of that game wrap up. So calls either way aren’t really a big part of the game wrap on this blog branderson925. You have to figure that they will even out over the year and that the stars will always get the benefit of the doubt.
I think I did a pretty good job of "putting bias aside" while not mentioning a single play that could have gone either way...
….and that mattered just as much as Rubio’s save out of bounds, the imaginary foul that Doug Collins went nuts over, a random Ridnour jumper, or Pek losing the ball in the 1st quarter. The DECIDING (!!!) factor of the game exists on more than just one play. Every play counts. I’m sure there were other missed calls. I try not to bitch about the refs one way or another.
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 20, 2012 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i need to follow your lead
i’ve gotta stop bitching about refs!
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Feb 20, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
So Kevin Love's handle here is "davechisholm." Noted.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
hahaha
i’m WAY better at trumpet than kevin love!
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Feb 20, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
I was at the game and I thought there were many missed fouls against Philly
early in the game. Holiday was bumping whoever guarded him. There were others, too. I was too far away from the final foul to feel it was suspect, but it was certainly a tightly-played game where the refs let lots of contact go early and got much more circumspect later. I think that’s a common pattern in games, actually.
by ogishkemuncie on Feb 20, 2012 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Also,
why would you be obligated to “put bias aside?” You write what you fucking want to.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Was it questionable, really?
It was a clear reach in – if you are going to attempt to strip the ball from behind you better get the ball out of the hands and avoid getting any arm. If you want to complain, complain that Love might have hooked his man.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Pek Decimates Jason Thompson
Truth be told
You frequently see a jump ball called on plays like that. I’ve seen loads of jump balls where you think the guy is hacked to bits and they call jump ball. After watching it multiple times, Iggy was very clean with his initial contact.
I am willing to admit I might be pissed if I was a Philly fan
But – I think it was a poor decision from Iguodala and a foul. Tough, tough way to lose, but.. that’s a reach in for me.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Pek Decimates Jason Thompson
Agreed
Reach-in’s always “look like a foul,” so they get called a lot.
What’s lost on the play with all the foul talk, is that while I applaud Love for forcing the issue and making the refs make a call (and bow down to him for draining them both), all in all it was a pretty poor play. Just don’t like the odds of Love forcing a drive like that. There was someone waiting at the rim. In other words, I’d prefer a different play (like the previous screen where he got a clean look) in the future.
But what do I know? It “worked” because we won!
Replay video
The view from under the basket as Love is driving looked like a pretty obvious reach in.
The more interesting story in this is that since the Scola Stomp and suspension, Love has been a model citizen when reacting to calls. Could this be a little reward for that good behavior?
down there
by JazzyCabbages on Feb 20, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah there was one play
I think Love was called for an O foul or something and he looked at the Ref ran the ball over to him and got back on D. I thought he was gonna have a fit but it looks like hes listening to criticism and responding well. Hes got the star power and respect from the Refs so he just needs to play. I like it and hope it continues
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Same here. I thought that was good of him.
I also saw him maybe get hacked on a shot and, instead of complaining, he just ran down the court and clapped really hard in frustration.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
I thought Iggy shoved him in the back too
after the initial reach.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 20, 2012 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
Why is it our SFs have looked worse under Adleman
than they did under Rambis?
I get they aren’t good players, but even at that Wes/Martell and Beasley have all taken a noticeable step back in play this year? Is it a style thing? No one is hitting open jumpers which especially for Martell and Wes is like half of their offense
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
With Beas...
…I think the answer lies in Rambis allowing him to go iso on nearly a 1/3 of his plays. With Wes I think it is because he can’t shoot the ball or rebound and those failings are even more exposed when that’s pretty much all he’s called upon to do in this offense with Rubio and Love and (now) Pek. He’s just supposed to crash the boards and hit the corner 3. Webster is Webster. He’s close to average at his very best.
The Wes take is spot on
I guess really it’s Webster who is baffling me the most and too an extent Beasley.
Webster looks like half the player he has been in his career…I would take close to average and I think most of us would right now…right? But he hasn’t been that guy yet.
Beasley is baffling cause it “appears (dangerous assumptions yes)” that he is moving the ball better, rebounding, and playing some okay defense…..but his shot is as inconsistent as it has been. Maybe I am just a Beasley homer but it is a little baffling for me because it seems like he actually has worked on some of the things we wanted him to work on but the things we thought he could do with moderate effectiveness he has not been able to do.
The reality is obviously that the 3 of the future is not on this roster. more than likely
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I wouldn't say Webster's case is very baffling...
he was really injured for a really long time. He was pretty bad during his final injury riddled season in Portland as well. Injuries screw with a guys game… especially in a season where you don’t have practices to work out the kinks.
yeah I guess
the year before we got him he was .105 WS/48 guy I was excited I thought it was a solid trade but he has been pretty blah since coming here
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
ahh...
it was the injury riddled season before that one.. that he didn’t do well.
He was fine last year, and he may be fine in a few weeks, but injuries suck.
you can't just go over my head with stats anymore vj ;)
just kidding after I posted the response I noticed he had a negative WS/48 season the year before where he only played like 15 games and I figured that is what you were talking about
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
The odd thing with Webster
is that he plays like a guy who wants to prove he’s not hurt (too fast, reckless), rather than playing like his back hurts and just making the best of it.
by Madison Dan on Feb 20, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think Wes is starting because he is the best of what we have.
I think its because they’ve decided to let the others go.
I'm sort of developing a theory as to why the rotation has evolved as it has
And especially why Beasley is seeing less and less of the floor.
First, look at the starting lineup. You obviously want Rubio creating with the ball. Ridnour is the guy (along with Love) you want taking jumpers when you take jumpers. (In a dream world, he would be 6’5" and an actual shooting guard, but this is reality). You have two uber-efficient scorers in Love and Pekovic, who have also (especially Love) become volume scorers.
So what do you want in a 5th guy? Someone who stays out of the way, or at least that’s how I think Adelman sees it. Johnson, as you have documented, is terrible, but I think the sins of omission are what Adelman prefers, for better or worse. He wants the other 4 guys doing the offense, and with Beasley that won’t happen. In that dream world, of course, Johnson would actually do things like make open 3 pointers.
As for the bench, it’s clear that Adelman prefers Barea as the “take over the offense” guy, perhaps because he gets to the line so much more effectively than Beasley. That leaves a diminishing role for Skittles.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 20, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My problem with Barea as the offense guy..
is he gives more points to the other team than he makes through fouls while they are shooting and turnovers.
I really don’t feel we are winning because of Aldeman. I think we are winning in spite of Aldeman. mostly because of 3 players: Pek, Rubio, and Love.
If he wants me to give him props he has to do something about the 5th man being a non-contributor. Or the turnover machine that is barea.
I think we are winning in spite of Aldeman.
Ooof…..I don’t think you’re gonna find too many people agreeing with that one.
And good take, EiM. That makes a lot of sense.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Feb 20, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
You can argue about rotations...
but the immediate uptick in defensive efficiency has to go largely to Adelman. Sure Rubio is a great defender, but I’d Adelman’s scheming has helped us go from worst to middle of the pack on defense… that is a big deal.
Aldeman
is my least favorite too.
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Feb 20, 2012 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
wwwhaaaat
after two years of rambis. you should be banned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Feb 20, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
I love Adelman
I despise Aldeman
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Feb 20, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Long time - no post
Wes was a poorly researched pick. As an older college players, the scouting consensus was there was not as much upside to his game as some wanted to believe. The higher level athleticism he relied on in college to score is now matched in the NBA by athletes just as athletic. His shooting in college was good, but not outstanding. Moving the 3pt line back to the NBA distance has certainly made his shooting more suspect. Frankly, from my perspective, it was kind of a reach pick.
Beasley was chosen as a 4 in a very low risk, high reward move that I applaud Kahn for making. He was a nightmare match up offensively at 4 (quicker than nearly every 4 in the NBA with an excellent arsenal of moves) and an average defender (the strong 4’s could abuse him). But when Love exploded, Beasley was pushed into being a 3 so that we could keep both on the floor. That experiment has not worked for Beasley. He is not able to adequately defend on the perimeter and he’s too far from the basket in most situation to make use of his offensive talents. Part of the reason the ball stops at Beasley is because of his desire to get a closer to the bucket make a move. And his outside shooting, which was never a strong point to start with, gets further exposed by his position on the court. Beasley will not be the answer – I expect us to lose him in FA. But it was well worth the gamble even though it did not work out.
Webster was absolutely dumped by Portland (recall – he was a STARTER!) based on their concerns about his physical condition. He thrived as a very athletic wing in a transition focused offense. But injuries were starting to rob him of some of that athleticism. The rest of his game (shooting, ball handling, decision making, etc.) were pretty average. Portland realized this and made the move. In our desire to be an up tempo running team, we added Webster thinking he would bring that to the table. I’m not sold that it would have worked – but with his continued injuries – to his legs and back which really sap one’s ability to run and jump – I just don’t think it’s ever going to work for Webster.
So, we need to find at least 1, more practically, 2 above average wing players in the next couple years to balance this thing out. Might write more about that later.
by Just A Fan on Feb 20, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
welcome back man
I don’t know if you know this or not but there was pretty much a clamoring for JAF to return to CH about a week ago
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Did not know that
just have been very busy so not much time to post here. I’m flattered I’ve been missed.
Did decide to renew my partial season tickets and have really enjoyed the renewed enthusiasm in the building. The brand of basketball is much better too.
FYI – I will not be a Twolves “insider” anymore. As I said last year, there were not many guys left and I wanted to protect their anonymity. Now, there is only 1 – so if I was to post anything “insider” related – I would be pretty easy to determine who my friend has been these years. So, when I post, it will be more retrospective and more my insight (based on playing and coaching) than on anything breaking inside. (Though I still have friends in places around the league that I see once and awhile when they come to town.)
Given that the loose lips all seemed to find Kahn 100% incompetent
Are we to assume that the talkers no longer work there, or they are happier with the direction RJ is bringing, or there has been some sort of crackdown on leaks, or ?
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Agree completely. There is no question
that Adelman is in charge and, even more importantly, he has created a culture where there is a healthy respect and appreciation for each person’s role in the overall success of the team.
While this may make SnP barf, it’s the same feeling I saw when Flip and McHale were running the show (before the crash and burn after the WCF). Everyone was pulling together – doing their jobs and supporting the overall effort to create a winning team. (Hopefully Adelman will with have better results)
A refreshing change from Kahn/Rambis.
I dont know if you can comment
Or if you did in your previous post.
But do you know specifically how much leverage team adelman has in the personel department? Is Kahn still the one doing the talent evaluation or is it basically adelman’s team now?
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Nice post
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
I don't know
if you’ve ever watched Portland play when Martell was there. But they were either last or second to last in pace. So a transition focused offense they were definitely not.
Epistemic closure means never having to admit you're wrong.
by Spouting Opinions on Feb 20, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
There is a difference between being a transition focused offense and fast paced.
Fast paced brings up thoughts of SSOL Suns. Transition offense really just implies making the most out of potential odd man rushes. They are very close, but still slightly different. When a transition opportunity isn’t there, portland wasn’t going to jack up a shot Suns style.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
If that doesn't work, cheat.
by TheEvilProfessor on Feb 20, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Webster
was great in transition when Roy had the ball in his hands. Not nearly so good in the half court. My guess is that’s why Portland found him to be expendable – even though he was starting for quite some time.
So glad to have you posting again
Always a pleasure to read your insights. Thanks.
Classic Adelman wing players?
Peja, Drazen, Drexler, Kersey,Christie
Anybody on the roster fit that profile?
by WinTheLottery on Feb 20, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't Adelman hate Drazen? Or maybe it was the other way around?
I know he couldn’t get any minutes on that team.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Feb 20, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
Interesting
to think there’d be any animosity between them. All I know is that team was just loaded at the 2 and 3 with Drexler, Kersey, Ainge, the occasional Porter minutes at 2, the occasional Cliff Robinson minutes at 3… Hard to blame Adelman for not playing him even though Petrovic had amazing splits and talent.
I think Adelman gave Beasley so many isos
that he put up a lot of numbers (so he ‘appeared’ to be playing better) and was more comfortable on the floor.
I can’t explain the drop in Wes’s game. Seems like he had more opportunity last year to handle the ball in a passer role within the broken biangle. He is actually a decent passer, especially on the interior. Perhaps that made him more comfortable/ready to shoot when the situation called for it. This year he normally does not see the ball really often unless he is wide open and expected to shoot. I dunno…
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 20, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Doh - typo - I think *Rambis* gave Beasley so many isos
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 20, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Why is Aldeman getting 0 flak for Johnson?
I don’t understand it. How many 0 point 1-2 rebound games does it take to realize you should start someone else?
I know Webster is not the best player, but he is better than Johnson. Beasley is better than Johnson. Playing another power forward would be better than Johnson.
At this point I think Webster should be starting if you stick to SF, or Williams for PF.
Adleman is winning games
there is a pretty fair chance he wins more games in a 66 game season than Rambis won in 164 tries.
I am as baffled by some of his rotation choices as you are but dude….we’re 16-16 and this is awesome
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
aight mayn
dat statement, iz ridiculous. I love RUbio an Pek and Love asz much az anyone but mayn DEFENSE iz wuss really poppin and de difference from lasss year iz hugggge!! If a team dosen’t try hard on D iss de coachs fault. I’m not sure any team haz tried less hard on d den Rambis wolves. we givin up like 16 less points a game with de same team!!!! dass crazy!! Adelman needs ta bitch slap Wes Johnson dass true but mayn cmon he haz done an amazing job
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Feb 20, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Not to mention he actually has an offense that actually, y'know, makes sense
T'Wolves 2012: Where Pek Decimates Jason Thompson
Agreed with the gist of your post, but one thing: it isn't the same team.
Rubio’s got a lot to do with the improved defense as well.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Feb 20, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Its a different team
If the team was the same I’d agree. Rubio is a much bigger catalyst for change than the coach was.
Do I need to remind you how little Adleman thought of Pek at the beginning of the season?
Do I need to remind you he didn’t get the starter spot because he was better, it was because Darcko was out.
When I see the coach make stupid choices (not just Wes) I wonder how much he has done and how much the roster change did.
IF YOU THINK COACHING DOESN'T MATTER
you must have missed the exhibitions during the lockout
by WinTheLottery on Feb 20, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Its not the same team
That is why I don’t feel he has made a big difference. And as long as he leaves a big hole in the fifth man spot. A hole I might add that has cost us games.
I know we need a SF, but we have better players than Wes.
Yeah,
I haven’t seen anyone complain about Wes lately, and everyone seems to completely understand why he’s in the starting lineup.
by Madison Dan on Feb 20, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
seriously, if this site wasn't permeated but such a herd mentality
we would have seen at least one front page post about how horrible wes johnson is.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Feb 20, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
seriously, if this site wasn’t permeated but such a herd mentality – we would have seen at least one front page post about how horrible wes johnson is
I am this close to cancelling my unpaid subscription to this website. This Close
Chazz Reinhold: Mom?? MOM!! What is she doing back there? I never know what she's doing.
by Son of Gerald Green on Feb 20, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I need a % somewhere
I’m confused by who is serious
That'd be
none of ’em.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
oh...
…you don’t have a Canis Gold™ account?
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Its been made pretty clear that Adelman only makes changes to the starting lineup when someone is clearly outplaying a starter
I don’t think that has happened in Wes’ case. It may be frustrating to see as a fan but this guy is a great coach and knows more about player management than any of us do.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Its pretty clear Adelman only makes changes when someone is injured or not available.
Rubio got on the starting line up when Beasley was injured.
Pek go on the starting line up when Darko was sick for a weeks.
In fact Aldeman didn’t play Pek much in the beginning of the season.
This coach doesn’t make changes very often period. Williams got to start once when Wes was out and he was clearly better.
Here's hoping Martell gets into the starting lineup by after the AS break....
if he can even play like he did (when healthy) last year, this team is in the playoffs. If provides league average production from the 3 with Ridnour/Barea/eventually Lee holding down the two, we’ll get a glimpse at what this team can be.
Nuggets tonight. Will the real Biyombo please stand up?
Kenneth Faried stands up.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Whenever I watch Faried
my eyes are wide open. He just plays some damn good basketball
woulda looked good with that 20t pick we had
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Next to Derrick Williams
I thought Faried was the most enticing player in last years NCAA tourney. But he seemed like too much of a tweener. I hope to see them side by side.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 20, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
We didn't and still don't need him.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I disagree
i think he would have been a good choice as theoretically Biyombo could be as well (note Faried already is a good choice, Biyombo potentially is a good fit) one thing we do need (albeit not as much as a wing) is a bench post player that knows his role and comes in to play defense and dunk the basketball.
Faried would be a brilliant 3rd post player, especially with the development of Pekavic
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Faried is a PF Biyombo is a Center.....
The 4 was pretty locked up at the time of the draft. The 5 wasn’t. Now we have the 4 locked up and the 5 in good shape. No disrespect to Faried, but we don’t need him. We have needs, but giving 10 mins a night to Faried as part of the big man rotation isn’t the fix we need.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I'm not arguing Biyombo is the solution either for what it's worth, but he'd possibly address the defensive 5.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
We do need a guy to spell Love and Pek though
They can play 44 minutes a night, but if they don’t have to there are a few games where it would be nice to not have to play them that much.
Faried is 6’8 Byiombo 6’9
faried has a block percentage of 6% Biyombo 7%
Faried DRB% 25 Biyombo 21
Idk how Biyombo is a 5 while Faried isn’t.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
"Idk how Biyombo is a 5 while Faried isn’t."
Faired: 6’6. w/o shoes. 6’.75 with. 7’0 wingspan, 9’0 standing reach.
Biyombo: 6’8.31 w/o shoes. 6’9/75 with. 7’6.16 wingspan, 9’3.42 standing reach.
Faried: actually good http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/farieke01.html
Biyombo: Not as much http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/biyombi01.html
all that length does you no good if you don’t actually know how to play basketball
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Seriously?
the debate is about position. There is over two inches of head height and 6 inches of wingspan between them. How can you see that, and stand by the statement “Idk how Biyombo is a 5 while Faried isn’t.”
I love Faried. I loved Faried before the draft. I thought he was the SOD. I think Faried can play spot minutes at center. However, your assertion that Faried is more center than Biyombo is completely off-base.
I don’t even think a single poster here would try to tell you that Biyombo is a better player than Faried. Boyombo is all potential.
No one is arguing with you that Faried hasn't out-performed Bismack in the 176 minutes he's played, but....
1) it’s been 176 minutes not 6,000
2) 20 plus pounds and 3 plus inches of standing reach are the difference between center and power-forward. Faried is one Biyombo is another
3) Biyombo is the youngest player in the NBA and a PROJECT. If you draft Biyombo it’s for what you expect him to develop into and not what he currently is. Faried is 22 with a full four years of college ball. He should be much better than Biyombo at the moment.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Way to move the goalposts...
You didn’t ask “Who is the better player today?” – you asked “How is one a C and the other isn’t?”
No my point was
Faried does basically already what everyone who likes Biyombo wants Biyombo to eventually do.
He blocks shots, he rebounds plays excellent post defense and he is a competent enough offensive player.
My point is that those 2/6 inches don’t mean anything because Faried is already doing that job.
People say Biyombo’s upside is a stronger more athletic Ben Wallace I would say Faried is ridiculously well on his way to being a better offensive version of Ben Wallce
per36’s 16 pts, 3 Blks, 13 boards, 50% FG’s, 69 FTs
What more are you hoping Biyombo gives you for his potential I guess is my question? Faried is already doing the Ben Wallace thing impression pretty well
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
You asked a very different question than what your point was.
And according to 82games, Faried has played 8% of Denver’s total minutes. 7% at PF and 1% at C.
So he’s been doing all those things – but he’s been doing them from PF.
Let's look at it this way:
Faired: 6’6. w/o shoes. 6’.75 with. 225 lbs. 7’0 wingspan, 9’0 standing reach.
Williams: 6’7.25 w/o shoes, 6’8.25 with. 248 lbs. 7’7’1.5 wingspan, 9’0 standing reach.
You want the 1st guy to play C and the 2nd guy to play SF.
And Love to play PF
Let’s play ball
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
So you put the little guy at C, the big guy at SF,
and cross your finger sand hope lightning strikes?
for starters I would have Faried be
a perfect back up to Pekavic and Love
Love goes big when Faried spells Pek then Pek comes in for Love to give him a breather than they both come back and take Faried out
what a great use of the 20th pick in the draft vs the 6th pick for the same mileage
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Except with Biyombo
You can play him at PF next to Pek or at C next to Love.
Faired is a very nice player that has done good things in limited minutes. But he’s smaller than Williams and Love. We’re dealing with a Wolves roster that is forced to often play 2 or 3 people at a time out o position. Let’s not intentionally try to add more.
As of right now
You can’t really play Biyombo anywhere
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
That's the difference between drafting
a 22 year-old 4-year college player and a 19-year old kid with limited experience.
with how far Biyombo has to go
I would be very surprised if he is ever as good as Faried is now.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Probably a safe bet...
but I am pro-Biyombo and could have told you that last year.
Biyombo is all potential. He may already be the best shot-blocker in the NBA, and a decent rebounding 5. The question is whether he will figure anything else out.
This is going to be an awkward argument you are having here. Most of the pro-Biyombo crowd is also in the pro-Faried camp. Faried is great. I would love to have him in a 3-big rotation with Love and Pek (he would be the 4 with both). At the draft (in the pre-Pek era), Faried was much less appealing, because he really isn’t a 5. Biyombo’s 5ness is why he was so alluring then… Honestly I don’t really care about the front-court anymore. I would take Faried, Biyombo, Pau, and plenty of other players, but I am happy with Love and Pek. A third big is not a chief concern here.
Somewhere in this argument
Simitar started debating me like I think Faried is the answer at the 5
which I don’t really believe to be the case so that is where the awkwardness is coming from
I would any day of the week rather have taken Faried at 20 than Biyombo at 6 yes…as I don’t think either player is a starting center but Faried is awesome now.
Short rotations still need good bench players. even if we do need a wing I think it is legitimate that we do need to find one good post role player to play 15-20 minutes a night. Faried would be awesome in that role
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
"Somewhere in this argument Simitar started debating me like I think Faried is the answer at the 5"
I was debating your insistance that since Biyombo is a C, so is Faried. Especially when you were basing it on only Biyombo being (incorrectly) 1" taller.
BR has
Biyombo at 6’9 229 and Faried at 6’8 228
different websites have them pretty close in terms of height and weight. I get that Biyombo has 6 more inches on his arms but it’s not like Faried is lacking anything athletically.
I more or less don’t believe Biyombo will ever be a full-time starting center.
Maybe a guy who can play 20 minutes a night of effective defense….but a cornerstone player, I don’t really think there is much a chance if any that that actually happens.
Biyombo would have been great at like pick 20…at 6 I would never have touched it
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I get that Biyombo has 6 more inches on his arms but…
6 more inches on his arms
6 more inches on his arms
Yeah its kinda hard to gloss over that fact
Guy is a freak (in a super awesome way)
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
I'll stick with the actual measurements
from the NBA draft combine over what teams report to websites.
You can’t really play Biyombo anywhere
Totally disagree. Right now Biyombo would be a great asset as a 3rd big for us getting 10-15 minutes per night.
10 minutes of high energy, defensive intensity would be ideal on this team.
Dude just had an 8 point, 13 rebound, 7 block game as CH ended their losing streak.
He was digusting that game
I cant wait to see BB and Val play against each other
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
Yup.
He has serious flashes. He had a really nice game against Dwight as well.
You can see the tools are there. He may never be better than Ben Wallace on offense, but he has all the tools to be a similar player on defense.
If he isn't better than Ben Wallace offensively
how can any coach justify playing him? Wallace was at his best a dreadful offensive player
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
this is a sketchy take admittedly
as Ben Wallace was able to find the right team to hide his offensive deficiencies.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Are you serious?
Is defense that unimportant to you that guys like Wallace really have to be in the perfect situation to get minutes?
Ben Wallace would’ve got major minutes on EVERY team in the league. Period. And he would’ve been a cornerstone on every one of them.
Cornerstone on every team in the league?
How did Ben Wallace do in Chicago?
He’s a specialist, and one of the best I’ve ever seen as a defensive specialist, but that’s what he was. He was on a perfect team for him, he moves to Chicago and looks pretty bland because there wasn’t the point guard and combination of shooters/slashers/Sheed on offense to hide the deficiency.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
"How did Ben Wallace do in Chicago?"
10 boards and 2 blocks with a 14.6 PER and excellent defense.
So your cornerstone player
is 10 boards, 2 blocks, a 14 PER?
I’m not saying cut him….but I would like to think most teams could find a better “cornerstone” player than that
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
On the downside of his career.
Yes. Because it isn;t JUST about scoring.
Preventing your opponent from scoring is just as (if not more0 important.
You need some defense
I don’t deny that
I would not invest a lot of money or a high draft pick into a guy who gives you relatively no offense though
a guy like Kawhi Lenord or Kenneth Faried are good guys to bet on as they won’t cost you an arm or a leg but they will play good defense and give you competent offensive player
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
If this isn't a cornerstone player:
4 Time Defensive Player of the Year
5 times 1st team All-Defense
2 Time rebounding champ
3 time ORB champ
6 Top 4 rebounding finishes
7 Top 3 ORB finishes
1 time block leader
3 Top 5 block finishes
.141 Career WS/48 (including through age 37)
Then I don;t know what is.
by Simitar on Feb 20, 2012 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I mean if that's how you want to build a franchise
I won’t stop you.
One interesting Nugget…only once did Ben Wallace have a season with a higher WS/48 than Kenneth Faried has right now
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yeah. Because good teams have ONE cornerstone player...
And again, defensive metrics don’t even begin to tell the story. Dennis Rodman, Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier don’t look like much just from defensive metrics. But guys like Rodman and Wallace change games even when they don’t score a point.
Rodman is one of my all-time favorite NBA players
But I mean you are saying defensive players don’t show up in metircs…sure I agree, but are you then saying Kenneth Faried is an offensive player?
I mean he isn’t inept offensively…I don’t think that makes him not a defensive player because he isn’t allergic to offense like Wallace and Biyombo, it just means he is a much more well-rounded player and it shows in his stats.
BLK% is a good defensive metric and Biyombo has blocked 7% of shots while he is on the floor (which is very good) while Faried has blocked 6% (which is still very good)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
if cornerstone means one corner with 3 other good players
you forgot to mention most number of games by an undrafted player
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i think he started his low cost shoe brand there
other than that, I don’t remember his contributions
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 7:26 PM CST up reply actions
This would be how:
getting 10-15 minutes per night.
10 minutes of high energy, defensive intensity would be ideal on this team.
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Feb 20, 2012 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
No we want Biyombo to do those things while covering Howard, Marc Gasol, Bynum, Pekovic etc.
It matters. Ridnour can shot and dribble, but he’s not a SG. He can play there, but that doesn’t mean he is a SG. Faried isn’t a center. Pekovic would love to match up on Faried.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
as he did Biyombo
I’m not nessecarily saying Faried is a starting center in the NBA, I’m just saying that I don’t see how Biyombo is one thing while Faried the other….which more or less means I have and will always be skeptical until proven wrong that Biyombo is a legitimate center NBA prospect
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
"I’m just saying that I don’t see how Biyombo is one thing while Faried the other"
Because they aren’t even close to the same size. No one is arguing who has been the more effective player this year. Just the whole idea that because Faried has had some success at OF, that he can play C.
i got u
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Biyombo is 5 inches shorter
than Marc Gasol, Roy Hibbert, and Javale Mcgee and they are all much more polished basketball players than he. I really don’t see how BB stands a chance to defend them
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
And really the goal was to find an ideal player to play next to Love
in the frontcourt. And that guy shouldn’t be smaller than him.
Biyombo has never been the answer either
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
had more to add
I am not saying Faried is the “answer” to pair with Love, but as a quality bench player with the 20th pick in the draft? sign me up.
The perfect compliment to Love is probably Pekavic if he can block a few more shots. We need an inside offensive presence as much as we need the defensive aspect of this considering Love is only kind of a low post player for a 4.
Biyombo would have been an unquantifiable disaster with this team (not that Williams is playing all that well either) as we are really a fine defensive team without him and we more or less needed the guy to be a compotent offensive player with some defensive ability.
If I were betting on potential for a Love counter part in the draft Valanciunas looks a little more like what we want out of a post partner for Love…however I think Pek is probably as good a choice as any
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I dont think thats a fair assessment
He would actually fit in really well with this wolves team. We have room for a project 4/5 as the rest of our “depth” sucks there. Also by being on this team he would play with actual competent player that can help ease him into the lineup. CHA is a absolute disarray right now they expect alot out of him. To compare his this years numbers to someone with 4 years of college experience playing on a playoff team is ridiculous.
I know I am a big BB banger but if you watch the talent is there and more importantly so is the drive. He played well on Dwight and ok against Pek. He has also had a few games where he was killing it. BB you get a potential star center. Faried you get a potential starter.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Since you mentioned Williams
Take a look at the offensive comp between the two. If B
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
And he wasn't supposed to be THIS YEAR.
Biyombo was drafted as a project. Guys like Faried, Wes and Williams were drafted as “NBA ready” (or at least that’s what certain people believed…)
Williams is 20
1 year makes all the difference?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
What is this in response to?
Has nothing to do with BB or Faried. We could use a back up 4/5 not a back up 3/4 who cant play the 3.
Williams is going to be good at the 4 and im fine with keeping him for a season or two to see if he can develop at the 3 but hes only going to decrease in value if he cant.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
vj, an unrelated question...
People have been making fun of Lin’s turnovers. But I think his usage rate is off the charts. Is there some adjusted level of TO that factor in usage.
In other words… are his turnover that high? Or is it just that he has the ball so much? (assuming they are still sky high but not as high relative to usage). Just curious.
I think Williams was a late bloomer too
I think I read somewhere that he didn’t start seriously playing basketball till he was a sophmore in high school.
Regardless…whatever argument Biyombo has for his young age Williams has almost as much as there are only a year apart. I’d always bet money on the actual basketball player.
The crux of my anti-Biyombo argument is basically I would rather have a basketball player. I understand if Biyombo can become a basketball player he will terrorize the league….but I will always side with actual basketball players if I am picking a team
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I'm fine with you anti-Biyombo argument...
most my interest in him is pure freakishness rather than actually confidence in his ability to become a useful player.
However… growing up in the US BBall system and then playing two years at a premier NCAA program is very different than growing up in the Congo and getting found out of nowhere before playing one year in the ACB. BTW… none of this mean Williams doesn’t have tons of room to grow and shouldn’t be given slack… he does and he should. Be he isn’t close to Biyombo raw.
"1 year makes all the difference?"
No.
Position and skillset make the the difference. We need the skills that Biyombo potentially brings to the table more than the ones that Williams potentially does.
We need good players
Biyombo is currently not a good player and has a Tolkein like journey a head of him if he ever wants to play more than 20 mpg
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Isnt a bit hypocritical
To let DWill be you project 3 and say we have no time for BB as a project 5?
We need good players at the 2 and 3 neither of which williams and BB are so we have ample opportunity to have projects at the 4 and 5 but as Simitar said we need BBs skill set a heck of a lot more than DWill
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Um... he's played more than 20 mpg in 7 of the last 8.
He’s starting at 19. Yes Charlotte sucks, but he’s still starting and playing heavy minutes.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I finally figured out where the disconnect is.
You massively undervalue defense.
I think you need to have some defense
I am pretty anti-Kevin Martin too. I’d take him for Beasley, sure but anything more than that and I’d just as soon not bother. he gives you nothing else but efficient scoring (which is nice) but he’s not a great passer, ball handler or defender.
I value good basketball players and I have seen very little in Biyombo that suggest he is going to be a good basketball player. He might be an intimidating guy to drive on, but I don’t see how he is part of any teams fourth quarter 5 man unit unless it’s the Heat
WolvesBigTicket. to echo this discussion with Simitar you stated that we “need Biyombo’s skills a heck of a lot more than we need DWill’s”
again I will respectfully disagree. We ARE A GOOD DEFENSIVE TEAM. I know it’s weird to think about because it’s the same team as last year who was the worst team, but we are defensively playing just fine, and surprise it’s with Pek and Love two guys that couldn’t be more polar opposite than Biyombo.
We need guys that can score the ball and hit shots. Williams currently is not doing that but his talent suggests he could.
So I will disagree with that take.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
"We ARE A GOOD DEFENSIVE TEAM. "
We’re 15th on offense and 13th on defense. I guess we’re a good offensive team too if being middle of the pack is “good”.
Williams has 1 skill right now. Getting to the line. But we’re 4th in the league in FTAs. On the other hand we’re 25th in blocked shots.
there's no way they'd trade K-Mart for Beasley
they want something ridiculous for K-Mart. they want another core player for K-Mart
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
they will not get a core player for KMart
because KMart himself is not a core player.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
ergo... that's why they're having problems moving him
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
You dont see much in BB
I dont see much in DWill, he is a tweener four and the only shooting we need is consistent 3 point scoring which I have seen nothing from DWill that makes me think otherwise. I mean he took less than 100 3PA in college so there really isnt enough data to say he is amazing. That is only twice what hes taken now and his 3P FG% is terrible.
So if he isnt great at what we need why keep him BB is already really good at what we would need him to provide.
This argument has taken the oddest course. I have no idea what we are arguing anymore since weve jumped from Faried to BB to DWill without any semblance of structured debate.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
I am actually okay trading Williams
and am pretty critical of his play when he plays bad (like this lousy first half vs Nuggets)
I think he is being set up too succeed about as poorly as a rookie could possibly be set (no consistent playing time, short hook, playing with Beasley and Barea) but he hasn’t always played well (when he has played more than 25 though he has performed pretty consistently)
I’m pretty realistic about this stuff. I love Williams and think he is going to be awesome. I also am intune with the idea that he might not be the best fit here.
I don’t see what need BB fills. We have a .2 WS/48 Center on our roster….if the need is for a post player to play 15 minutes a night I guess then yes BB fills a need.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Well I guess that is what this argument has devolved to
BB is a center more so than Faried he would have fit a need at draft time. Faried while good and will be good, didnt and wont same with DWill as they are both PFs. I was in no way saying trade for them in this argument. I am more than ecstatic with Peks play and think we have way more glaring needs.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 20, 2012 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
i disagree that Love and Pek can play 44 min a night
sure, they can half-ass jog up & down the court for 48, but I disagree that they can play 44 good minutes a night.
check out some of Pek’s interviews after 40+ min games. he’s sucking some hard wind minutes after the game.
folks were complaining that Love sucked butt the 1st 3 quarters of this game. i think he was conserving energy knowing that he would have to play big minutes.
i’d rather have Love (40) and Pek (35) go balls out while DWill & Darkomiller provide solid breathers
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
plus, people complain about the zone… i think Adelman does it to bide time to get a in-game breather for the bigs (as well as a change-up)
also, folks are usually clamoring for Pek in the 4th quarter… I think again that Adelman is just biding time to get Pek some rest
39-42 seems to be the magic number to play superstars. these guys aren’t video game robots. they need rest. otherwise, some armchair coach like me can just play LeBron and Wade and Bosh 48 min a game and win most of the time.
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
He's quite a bit older than Biyombo (or at least his listed age)
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
He's also quite a bit better at general basketball skills
And still a pretty legit defensive prospect
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 12:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Beas
I’m to the point that I think Beas needs to double his effort on the court and get a little maniacal. He’s not going to be a cerebral player any time soon, and he’s not going to stick here unless he drops the lackadaisical play and attacks on every play. It could be real ugly but it’s contract time and he better start showing something, his minutes are falling fast.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
why not?
at this point I’m open to anything
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
beas is gone at the end of the season
hopefully to a team needs a PF
If he leaves
And he probably will, but you never know, I really hope he goes to a team where he can play PF and be a focal point of the offense.
You would have done if Wes could hit a three pointer
T'Wolves 2012: Where Pek Decimates Jason Thompson
I blow on math
but if we win tonight and Wednesday and San Antonio keeps playing out their ass, we could go into the All Star game in second place in the Northwest Division.
Things are really bunching up to an insane degree, and how we play Denver and Portland from here on out could be huge.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
This.
With only a 66 game season and conference heavy play our rivals will be playing each other instead of beating up on the East. Someone has to lose so when Portland, Denver, Houston, Utah and the Lakers play each other. The result should be a lot of bunching.
Wolves need to win as many games as possible, but really need to split or take the series against Portland and or Denver. If we can take both series (which would be pretty hard to do) we should be set.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Don't want to fanpost this quick thought...
Rose wants Pau.
Kobe wants a decision on moving Pau (and they get themselves a PG)
We get Korver to space the floor.
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
I'm pretty sure the Lakers say no
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 20, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
I would say hell no if I am the Lakers
Boozer ain’t much, no D. Luke ain’t a top-flight PG.
So, two OKs for a good. No.
signature
by ChicagoViking on Feb 20, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Lakers say no.
I would say picks to LAL might make it happen, but Chicago’s picks aren’t worth much. And while I think I’d do a Korver-for-Ridnour swap, pretty sure Adelman wouldn’t. He’s placed enough emphasis on playing ball-handlers that I don’t see the Wolves doing this.
Spot on Stop n o
The only assets the Wolves have — outside of the Big 3 — are the OK 2 (Ridnour and Barea) and DWill (potential to uncage). Add to that, maybe the ability to take on salary or a wing headache.
That says a lot about our 2010 #1 pick and about Beas.
I don’t know if Kahn can pull this off. He has to try. Has to.
Otherwise, we hope for the linbulb to go on for Wes, Beas, Martell, or Lee (maybe our best hope). This is an Eastern Conference playoff team for sure but needs that one more player to make it a Western Con playoff team for sure.
They could still do it even w/o a trade, but…. I say goodbye Dwill or one of the two backup PG/SGs.
signature
Barea
probably also has no trade value. He was just a free agent and we gave him twice as much money as he was offered by anyone else. Any team that would willingly give up an asset for him would have just offered him a MLE type of deal.
True, but
If I were PG desperate (due to injury for example), I may trade a wing for him.
I think DWill or Ridnour are stronger bets based on DWill’s caged potential and Luke being a basically OK PG. My ranking:
DWill
Luke
JJ
signature
by ChicagoViking on Feb 20, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone see McGrady's comments about playing time?
Openly pissed at Drew….only played 4 minutes last game. Obviously, we don’t want a headache, but the T-Mac/Adelman angle is there…and we know he’s better than all of the wings on our roster.
18 MPG overall this year, WS/48 is .117 (although just .061 last year in Detroit). Cheap, expiring contract. I wouldn’t think Atlanta would move him, but if they aren’t going to play him….
But is he better than...
Wes (probably), Beas (not sure about that one) or us playing JJ/Luke as our SG.
I don’t see it at this point. Also, the ESPN trade machine ghosts him out for some reason. Don’t know why. Don’t know if it matters.
signature
by ChicagoViking on Feb 20, 2012 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Ah, that would be because he signed as a FA.
What’s the rule on that this year? March 1?
Also, just fan-shotted this:
Steve Kyler @stevekylerNBA
RT @LEXthePEX: Do you see the Rockets trying to move Martin? maybe reunited with Adelman in Minny? —> There is real interest
Not anything groundbreaking, but relatively contradictory to what Kahn/even Zgoda have been saying lately. I know there was talk of Martin interest right before the season, but hadn’t heard much since they were winning.
Same chat he suggests...
1) agents steer their free agent clients away from Houston due to Morey (not fleshed out here, but I suspect this is due to his use of restricted free agency to limit salaries and treatment of players merely as assets)
2) no other team wants to deal with Houston because they are asking too much in return for their players
3) Houston wants an All-Star back for Martin
4) Houston is spending most of it’s energy trying to move, Thabett, Williams, Flynn and Budinger
Unrelated to Houston he also suggested that Western Conference teams are hesitant to trade a SG to the Wolves because they have an idea it’d solidify us as a playoff team for the next few years.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
All good points.
The only thing that sticks out in my mind is that Houston is mentioned as a front-runner for Kaman, and they’ll need to clear salary to pick him up. Obviously, Houston won’t get an “All-Star” from us for KMart, but if they really want Kaman, we’ll take Martin….
Budinger is the guy to target
He’s long, athletic and can hit three pointers and he’s cheap
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 12:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
re:Budinger's contract.
Isn’t the fact that he can hit 3’s and he is cheap a reason also why they may be sheepish in dealing him? I know he has fallen out of favor over there, but still that contract is cheaper than dirt.
he would need to grow a beard
Looking at him, he can jump through the roof and hit threes but I don’t know if that face can build a beard. We don’t want him emulating darko
by midlife crisis on Feb 20, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
I've heard similar rumors about Sgs
Especially in relation to Mayo
I still think Turner makes a bunch of sense for a number of reason the East/west thing is just one of them
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 20, 2012 12:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You could trade Beasley/Johnson for Turner/Nocioni.
Philly might do it just for economic reasons.
It looks like Nocioni has one more season on his contract after this, which sucks, but…
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
I would do that in 4 second if it were possible
I would imagine Turner would cost you Williams but if he doesn’t all the better
then you can move Williams for Batum
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Just because we like the idea doesn't mean Portland is interested in Williams for Batum.
They do have a pretty good PF already.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I agree completely
I would more than likely bet money that this trade is not how we get Batum
but it’s the thought that counts. If we can get Turner w/o Williams then we can use Williams to get a 3 shooting 3 like Batum
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
So they would give us Turner and take on Johnson's contract
Just to not finish paying Nocioni the rest of this year’s salary?
Sign me up!
Nocioni has 2 years left
Johnson has a player option that will be declined
I don’t think this trade happens either but that is the thinking…basically you save 6.8 million for the next two years off the deal
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
there u go. deal dead
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
John Hollinger's power rankings have the Wolves sitting at 13th
with a 40% chance of making the playoffs. Marc Stein’s power rankings put the Wolves at 11th.
side note
i literally almos died laughin when I saw de rim reject de shit out uv Wes Johnsons dunk. I wuz prayyyyin dey would FOx-Mo dat bitch mayn ta see dat look on hiz face like “oh shit ima dunk it…oh snap nvm”. It uwz really fuckin funny. someone find me de clip on youtube. I know Corey had some moments like dat hiz rookie year too, but mayn dis shit wuz great!
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Feb 20, 2012 12:36 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
MAYN.. at first I was pissed he missed it, but when you see the replay
you will see he was essentially blocked so it wasn’t truly an idiotic play.
he wuz blocked
BY DE RIM!! Noone else tocuhed de ball or him! He jumped, thought he could double pump dunk it, den got rimjected! He couldda juss laid it p but thought he had de hops. shit wuz mad fuunny yo
MAYN HOL UP!
nah...
he double pumped bc Iggy challenged
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
Nah, Iggy got a hand to it.
Ok, he barely touched it, but he did touch it.
Signed,
Wes Johnson’s #1 Fan.
"If you’ve got some balls, you can do some stuff"
and kahn i kno u duckin mah phone calls mayn
you gon have ta call me back sooner or later mayn belee dat
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Feb 20, 2012 12:37 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
No comments on the lack of a foul
I was really wondering why RA didn’t have the Wolves foul during the 76ers last real possesion. The game and shot clocks were so close that the Wolves could have ended up with just a couple of seconds left on the clock and down by 1. That was cutting it way too close. There is also the chance that the 76ers get the rebound and the Wolves never do get another shot at a basket.
Hate to second guess since it worked out, but doesn’t conventional wisdom call for fouling and forcing them to the line in that situation?
The answer to fouling is not always the same..
I think everyone looks at this question of whether to foul or not (with 3-4s differential in the clocks) being absolute. Its not – it depends on the teams and matchups.
As a coach you have to feel how the game is going. I think there is some statistical evidence that given last night’s opponent that you don’t foul in this situation.
My thoughts, without the stats: 1) Philly is a transition team mostly, and they struggle a bit in half-court, so let them try to execute against our set defense – and they settle for taking long 2’s as well 2) They are one of the worst O-rebounding teams, and we were doing pretty good in the 4th on the boards (although not for the game) + we have Kevin Love – the board should be ours.
If we were playing OKC, maybe you foul to extend the game, but against Philly and how things were rolling, I understand RA’s logic last night. That is, until somebody figures out that you can just shoot a high arching shot that takes 3-4 seconds to hit the rim, but you got to hit the rim.
by Pass the rock on Feb 20, 2012 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Don't know exactly what the differential was,
but 3 seconds may have been pushing it. Seemed really tight.
Just letting the clock run out probably wouldn’t have been a bad thing for the Sixers or just throwing it towards the rafters.
The Wolves did get them to settle for a long jumper, but was still a bit too close for comfort on that one. Seemed like RA was trying to re-create the magic from the Clipper win.
PEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKK!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
Just watched the game, damn.
That fourth quarter. Kevin Love is MVP. Just ridiculously good.
Also, the one thing that people are beating Rubio up about is scoring. Yeah.
"If you’ve got some balls, you can do some stuff"
Also, which teams have a PF/C pairing that can match Love and Pek?
Pau and Bynum? Amar’e and Chandler?
"If you’ve got some balls, you can do some stuff"
Pek ate Chandler's lunch,
but that game would have been really interesting if ’A’m’a’r’e’’’ had been there.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Feb 20, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
He also was having his way with Bynum.
Who even said the key to the win was us sitting Pek in the 4th.
Love appears to be developing a little step-back midrange jumper
That’s something I haven’t seen him make as much, but it’s a great shot for him if he can keep working at it.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 20, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
Until further notice
LeBron is MVP.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 20, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
Lebron good at basketabll an all
but mayn, fuck dat guy.
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Feb 20, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I was just rewatching the last minutes
and after KLove makes his first free throw, Wes has the goofiest smile on his face. Extra goofy
I feel bad for Wes - - - until I look at my take-home pay ;-) smile.
"I'm shocked - shocked - to find basketball going on in here."
what do you mean?
he’s only going to make $60,698.18 for tonight’s game. %
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Feb 20, 2012 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
Watching the Knicks game. Melo is back - see if that's a positive or negative.
See how the PG handles it. Good start for them so far.
"I'm shocked - shocked - to find basketball going on in here."
Melo missing layups. Timing off on lobs.
"I'm shocked - shocked - to find basketball going on in here."
Don't really know who's in charge.
I’ve made a couple “friends” as well as angered some dorks at Target Center. I spent most of my childhood after school with my friends, chasing players for autographs, meeting them, ect from the team hotel before, to team bus after. (We were obsessed) That shit stopped when I turned 16 or 17, but I still/have always continued to go to games except for only a few last year for obvious reasons.
RJ Adelman and Kahn sit together every game and talk about the game and blab about what’s going on the court (I’ve sat in front of them a couple times) This doesn’t mean shit really I guess, but since Adelman has said that he wants to “stick around in this playoff thing” Rick A also noted one of the reasons he chose this job was to develop players and prob explains why Wes continues to start. (But D-Will doesn’t play..?) So looking at Kahn/The Adelmans, It’s hard to see who controls what now. RJ/Rick or Kahn could be just waiting for a deal BUT as SnP noted each day that moves on is a day we could fall out of the playoff hunt….. Also not adding of a wing in training camp screams “Kahhhhhn!” .
I talked to one of my dudes’ at TC and I said to him “So I hear that R.J is running shit now..?” he responded “No, R.J is a freaking tool..” I just made things more confusing. There are tons of options out there that are better than what we have at wing so in conclusion, poop.
"Wes Johnson is quite possibly the worst player in the NBA" - Everyone
so you really are Andre Patterson?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I am.
"Wes Johnson is quite possibly the worst player in the NBA" - Everyone
by AndrePatterson on Feb 20, 2012 11:45 PM CST up reply actions

by 














