Fish flop
Remember that game against the Heat last year where Miami just toyed with the Wolves and we all got to see what it would look like if a Flyweight went up against a Heavyweight?
The Wolves have stepped up a few weight classes since that tilt and last night's beat down at the hands of the Indiana Pacers showed all of us what it is like to see a cutesy Middleweight get beat the you-know-what-down by a grown ass man Middleweight.
The Pacers entered last night's tilt with a single goal: to beat the living hell out of Our Beloved Puppies.
Mission Accomplished.
Here's what I think was going through the head of each and every single Indy player:
"You want to run the pick and roll? We'll crush the pick. You want to throw your body around on the defensive glass? We'll grab at you until we get called. We'll poke, pry, hustle, and hack and we'll beat your finesse. We'll beat you because you're soft. We'll beat you because we're better. We'll beat you because our bigs are bigger and our wings can play. We'll beat you because our coach has an edge."
Last night's tilt was the first time I got the sense that the Wolves need something more than an above-average wing player to really compete. When Kevin Love got tied up with Danny Granger on a frustration foul at the end of the 3rd quarter, Granger got riled up and Love rolled over. Michael Beasley took some grief from the play-by-play as being "the Bad Beasley" but he and Martell Webster seemed to be the only Wolves on the court to sense what that play actually meant. Love got called out and he stepped down. Indy went on a 22-10 run to put the game away. Granger led the way.
Yes, the Wolves shot like crap. Yes, Rick Adelman couldn't find a lineup that could play defense and score. All of that comes into play, but what really matters is that a young team on the rise who is in the same weight class as the Wolves came into Target Center and knocked the Wolves the f**k out.
Until later.
562 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Haven't posted at all this season
but I’ve been watching.
Hail to the bleepin’ yeah. Though I suspect the next time we play the Pacers, a few Wolves will try to fill that role. I think the Puppies were taken aback a little by just how physical (screw it—it was dirty, it was chippy) the play of the Pacers was. StopnPop outlined well in the post; they just threw Wolves to the side until they got called for it.
Most intriguing to me is Love’s comments after the game. While Granger seemed conciliatory (“Love is a friend of mine”), Love was having none of it. You want someone nasty, Keelhaul? I think the whole damn Minnesota team believes in each other and seriously believes in their leader. I suspect, the next time we play the Pacers, the whole team will have a bit of that ‘evil’ streak. And good on the Wolves if they do. It adds fun to an already enormously fun season—it gives us Wolves fans a team to hate.
by SufferingBruin on Feb 2, 2012 7:16 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure vengeance is a good motivation
We have to be the bullies and not just retalaite or be aggressive out of revenge. When you take vengeance, you get carried away. You need someone who is brutal, cold and calculating. Someone who we can afford to get ejected in situations like this. Someone who knows when to take a T and put fear in our opponents. This team is too cute.
I loved when Darko crushed Perkins against OKC. We need some plays like that. That was a very clever statement play. Gave up an early T and set the tone. Perkins didn’t try to do his usual shit because of it.
Chris Webber said it, that when they played their first playoff game against the Utah Jazz with Sacto, he showed Stockton quite hard. After the game, Stockton said ‘good play’. It just set the tone for the game. This kind of things are important.
Pekovic and Milcic should each get a T early in the game to make the opponent feel their presence. I’m not talking about Bynum-craziness here, I’m talking about cold-blooded intimidation.
Vengeance is a good motivator
You have to focus to get revenge and focus is absolutely one of our biggest weaknesses.
Also, Ricky needs to stop passing to Luke if Luke’s going to be a black hole about it (ball goes to Luke then goes up or elsewhere but never seems to get back to Ricky).
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Vengeance is a good motivator
until you took revenge.
Two things can happen them:
-the motivation disappears, you are even.
-you get carried away (in our case get ejected).
Neither outcome is fun on the long run. We need cold hearted evilness.
What I'm saying is
What you described is Chaotic Evil. Someone like Xzar from Baldur’s Gate 1. Definitely funny on the party until it gets kind of messy and gory.
What I want is something more Neutral or even Lawful Evil. Like for example Edwin. Edwin is cool and fun and evil, and entertaining.
I don’t want the Wolves to be a despicable, evil team, I want them to be more evil and aggressive, and I want them to cleverly pick the spots. Darko has the most potential in that area I think.
Hell, I’ll start a BG party and Darko will be a Neutral Evil fighter/thief. In honesty he is more chaotic neutral right now, but he sure has neutral evil potential.
I thought grouping NBA players by DnD alignment would be fun, so here it is
I won’t rank every NBA player just some more known ones with an emphasis on our roster. Note that notorious winners aren’t notoriously nice people on the court (or off the court btw). Some retired players are included.
LG (Lawful Good for non-geeks):
Luis Scola, Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Chuck Hayes, David Robinson, The Dream,
Ricky Rubio, Wes Johnson, Nikola Pekovic, Derrick Williams, Luke Ridnour, AT,
NG (Neutral Good)
Tracy McGrady, J.J. Barea, Kyle Lowry, Vlade Divac, Arvydas Sabonis, Penny Hardaway
CG(Chaotic Good)
Wayne Ellington (seems like one to me!), Johnny Flynn
Gerald Wallace, Noah, Robin Lopez, Magic Johnson, Drazen Petrovic, Mike Beasley (hesitating between CG and CN), John Wall, Mount Mutombo
LN(Lawful Neutral)
Kevin Love, Brook Lopez, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Shane Battier, Patrick Ewing, Kevin Martin, Steve Kerr,
TN (True Neutral)
Tim Duncan, Derrick Rose, Pau Gasol, Clyde Drexler, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Amar’e,
CN (Chaotic Neutral)
Darko Milicic, Anthony Randolph, Samuel Dalembert, JaVale McGee, Monta Ellis, OJ Mayo, Rafer Alston, Stevie ‘Franchise’ Francis, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Allen Iverson, Dennis Rodman? (hesitating between CN and CE), White Chocolate, Charles Barkley, LeBron James (he’s not evil, he’s an idiot), Carmelo Anthony, Stephon Marbury,
LE(Lawful Evil)
Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Dwyane Wade, Chauncey Billups, Michael Jordan, Robert Horry, Larry Bird, Reggie Miller, Kobe Bryant,
NE (Neutral Evil)
Kevin Garnett, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton,John Stockton, Karl Malone, Hornacek, Ron Harper, Detroit Pistons, Bruce Lee Bowen, Raja Bell, Shaq, Derek Fisher
CE (Chaotic Evil)
Ostertag, Bynum, DMC, Birdman, Ron Artest, Kenyon Martin
Coaches:
Rick: lawful good
Karl: neutral good
Pops: true neutral
Mike D’antoni: chaotic neutral
Kurt Rambis: chaotic evil
Phil jackson: lawful/neutral evil
Jerry Sloan: neutral/chaotic evil
JvG: true neutral (but he is funny as hell)
SvG: true neutral
Pat Riley: lawful evil
Spoelstra: neutral good, seems to me
by Keelhaul on Feb 3, 2012 3:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And another category:
True Chaotic. Corey Brewer is True Chaotic. This is fun. I mean—I have no idea what any of this means!
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 3, 2012 7:18 AM CST up reply actions
Do you think I do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29
This doesn’t help either. True Neutral is the most confusing. But if we apply the sentence:
“A farmer whose primary overriding concern is to feed his family is of this alignment.”
to Sprewell we get:
“A Sprewell whose primary overriding concern is to get more money to feed his family is of this alignment.”
It sort of works, though I consider Spree to be CN.
True Chaotic is nice
He is a mythical creature, an Entropy elemental. Will be in DnD 5th edition. True story!
Sadly I’m not the first to find this out.
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/3266?page=29
But we’re surely the first to have successfully identified one!
I don’t play these card games by the way. I’m a lonely nerd so I had to RPGs in my head.
I'm totally lost here too.
But for some reason Jason’s “This is fun.” statement, reminds me of a story a about a women who had been a good tennis player but decided to take up something less strenuous when she got older. So she took golf lessons. The first time she hit off the tee she hit a hole in one. Seeing the astonished reactions of those around her she said, “What, isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?”
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 3, 2012 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
I'm no expert, but I can't see KG in any category
That is not associated with the Chaotic label
I say we sign Reeves Nelson next summer
After he goes undrafted. He just got released from BC Zalgiris after being cut from UCLA. He plays like Kevin Love form a broken home and a few stints in Juvi. He wears the furious scowl the way Randolph wears the hangdog droop of clinical depression. Neither have ever smiled. Once. Reeves is one PsychoT poke away from shanking someone on the court. He is apparently a locker room cancer, but I’m not sure I’d let him practice (or certainly shower) with the team anyway. Also in his favor, but less important, is the fact that on a team with 2nd rd picks Malcolm Lee and Tyler Honeycutt, he was easily the best player on the floor. Or at least the best player under 380 pounds. I’m not sure he’d ever have a teammate’s back, but as soon as the league figures out that Pek likes kittens and Storybooking, out intimidation potential is going to be rock bottom and we’ll need a true time bomb.
This was not an Indiana thing. It is obvious that the book on the Wolves team is to push the physicality needle to redline. It’s the only way to deal with Love, and certainly the way to frustrate him. And, while not always successful, it is the only way that Rubio has been slowed. Every team, or every team that is smart and physically capable, has played the Wolves this way so far this season, and it’s not going to get any better.
Reeves
I was at media day when the news broke that Reeves Nelson had been released from UCLA. I shared the news with his former teammate, Malcolm Lee. Malcolm seemed in no way surprised or disappointed for him. Bad, bad sign.
Check out Humdinger TV on YouTube.
http://twitter.com/HumdingerTV
There's not a single person associated with Reeves
who does not acknowledge that he’s got a lot of problems. That includes his Mom, who was quoted in a recent article. He is easily his own worst enemy.
Sounds like a chaotic evil guy
I’ll take him. We can play the good-cop-bad-cop things with the ref too. Opens up a zillion possibilities for mind games! Fun!
I don't think he'll ever play in the NBA
but part of me would love to see him take a share of DWill’s minutes in the role as “big bruiser forced to play wing due to superstar presence and lack of viable alternatives”. The loss of outside shooting going from Williams to Nelson would be made up for by complete ownage of the boards and an intimidation factor that would be crazy fun. As an FYI, in 2 games matched up against DWill last season, Reeves fully outperformed him, going 24/10 and 27/16.
It'd be clever to pick him up
Whenever the team would get on a plane it would be Con Air all over again with 14 Nick Cages.
I could see Kahn
As Steve Bushemi’s (SP?) character, hes got a really creepy smile
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 3, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
It was tough to watch
They were the proverbial bully that kicked sand in our face.
I was seething as they continued to push us around all night and instead of pushing back, we whined to the refs.
Hopefully this team shows more testicular fortitude in the rematch than they did last night.
Blech.
In the highlights
every time granger is lighting it up, Beasely is completely out of position and sprints from 15 feet away to recover and contest. * sigh *
by Los Lobos Del Bosque on Feb 2, 2012 7:25 AM CST reply actions
He was bad
No question. Also, Pek had trouble in the post. He doesn’t appear to be the best help defender (he sticks to his man) and the Pacers took advantage of that.
I haven't checked the box score but it sure felt like they got open looks from 3 anytime they wanted
That and there was a ton of banging down low and it usually went in Indys favor.
As a fan, this is one of those games best forgotten
Nobody played well. Love couldn’t make, Rubio looked heavy-legged and couldn’t handle Collison, Beasley was terrible at both ends, The less said about Milicic and Johnson the better (and could Adelman please stop starting his two worst players?), etc.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
I've rewatched the 3rd quarter
I think Adelman is hell bent on making a player from Wes. When Wes got subbed, Adelman clearly had some positive body language toward him. It felt something like “you’ll get better, keep your head up”. It was strange to see as Adelman rarely shows this kind of affection or whatever you call it towards his players. He rarely shows any emotion besides being grumpy or angry at the refs.
I sure wish I knew what RA
thinks he sees. Aside from not being able to spit in the ocean, all this stuff about Wes being a decent defender is crap. On 2 occasions, one a rebound near the perimeter and another a run at a deep shooter, Wes makes only a half assed effort to get there. He could have had the rebound, and he could have gotten closer to the shooter. This is lack of hustle, man, not talent. I swear, Wes needs to get his face slapped. When he comes out after another worthless stint, I should say negative, because he not only doesn’t do anything positive, he was more or less responsible for 8 Indy points. Instead, he’s sitting on the bench yucking it up with I forget who, smiling away like he just farted and is waiting for the guy next to him to smell it. He should be hanging his head, frowning, committing himself to get it right. Please, get rid of this guy. It was especially painful to see Paul George, taken at 12 I believe, who I wanted us to pick, even at 4. If there is any lesson to the twolves drafts, it is to ignore the projections. The fact that everyone had Wes way better than George, is not a valid excuse.
Today's Kahn story in the PiPress
strongly suggests that the team sees the fan base as bipolar: super happy or super pissed all the time. I don’t know basketball like most of you, but I know psychology and the TONS of negative crap about Wes and Beas do filter through to them.
I think maybe Wolves fans need to think about going Section 121 for a while: cheer first and save the bitching for offline. (or at least the bitching that’s just flat out rip someone apart nasty)
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Screw that
I mean, I don’t think of myself as particularly nasty, and I try not to swing too much from game to game, but I’ll rip when they deserve ripping. And the team thinks the fan base is bipolar? Eff that. I sat through enough bad basketball since the KG trade that I don’t want to hear one freaking word about my mental state.
Try winning more than 32 games over 2 seasons and then talk to me.
Super happy or super pissed? Damn right. Mostly at the same time. Super happy that they have one of the best and funnest young combos in the league, super pissed that the obvious problems (for years) have not been solved.
They are tired of the fan base? I’m pretty effing tired of ownership and management.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 2, 2012 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 12 recs
this
I found CH, not because it’s a great blog with a great reputation, but because I live where there are very few TWolves fans so I can’t talk about them to random coworkers.
This team is aggravating to watch, specifically the play of Milicic, Beasley and Johnson. I’m not terribly happy with our choices of Webster/Ridnour/Ellington at the 2 but they all play hard, and don’t make boneheaded mistakes repeatedly. I really think we need to shift Webster to the 3 (where he has played in the past) just so we don’t have to run Beasley or Johnson out there all the time. If we didn’t have that option I would be pining for Tolliver or DWill to play there just to get bad players off the court. Right now our big-3 of Milicic, Beasley and Johnson should be on very short leashes earning every minute of court time but it seems to be just the opposite.
I also think that if players don’t want their ego bruised they should stop perusing fan sites.
by zebano on Feb 2, 2012 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Aggravating to watch:
The contrast between a) Danny Granger and Paul George; and b) Wes Johnson and Luke “I am the cutesy middleweight Stop-n-Pop meant” Ridnour.
Those mismatches in terms of basic playing ability (Wes) and size (Luke) aren’t always the ones that get exploited directly, but they constantly put the Wolves on their heels in one way or another.
I stopped posting last night, and then after a while I started flipping between the game and the Science channel. There was a cool documentary about a hybrid R.O.V. getting ready to go down into the Challenger Deep for samples. PBS had that dissection show, and they were looking at a white shark. The death of the shark seemed less inevitable than the similar gutting of the Wolves’ wings like fish, and the shark was freaking dead at the start of the show.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
When George went to the bench with 4 fouls
I expected us to go on a run. Instead I was treated to Granger stepping up and the Wolves looking lost followed by too many minutes of JJs attempt to remember how to play. I appreciate what JJ did earlier in the year but it was readily apparent it wasn’t happening tonight, maybe it was rust on his shot, maybe the game was too fast but he looked like he needs 2 starts in a D league game before he gives us serious minutes. I would have preferred to see Luke as the backup PG last night.
Regarding mismatches, I’m constantly surprised how rare it is to see them directly exploited. Martin was the only one I remember calling for the ball against Ridnour and to be fair he lit up Webster just as much as Luke.
by zebano on Feb 2, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Barea was rusty, good call on the d-league thing.
I guess it would be too, too insulting to ask someone like him to get the kinks out down in the developmental league. We’ve got to bargain in CBA terms to prevent insults like that to the league’s leading lights.
He could have gone down with Malcolm Lee and developed some chemistry there, even, in another life.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
the insulting part baffles me
but I grew up a baseball guy and it’s commonplace there even for the best players.
"True farm system."
Yeah, and that works. It works in so many ways.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
What David Kahn needs is a more nurturing environment. The blistering coverage here is too harsh.
Maybe he should move on to Philadelphia or New York.
Criminy.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
by feral on Feb 2, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
+1
Does this guy know how much the Twins get away with here with not actually fielding a championship contending team? All he has to do is field a decent team that makes it to the playoffs yearly and loses and the sheep in this state will just eat it up.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
And the Twins were positioned to win, too
F up after F up. And most of them so obvious to people putting in the time that many on Canis Hoopus put in to the NBA/Wolves. And they got away with it year after year after year.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
I couldn't believe it
When I talked to friends/family about the Twins, and everyone was always really happy. There is not a winning culture here, there is a culture of complacency. There are no expectations and there is no accountability…Unless you’re the Vikings.
People hate on the Yankees for being able to buy talent, but they miss out on the fact that they’re a supremely well run organization. The cash is just the cherry on top.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
The Twins have lost 12 playoff games in a row
And during those 12 straight losses not one rally garbage can was tossed from the dugout onto the field.
If that’s not the first thing that happens on opening day then change the channel.
by fanslaststand on Feb 2, 2012 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
Hear hear
People are pissed about Wes and Beas because they suck, and we shouldn’t have to rely on them for anything.
If they fielded a good team out there, and management showed signs that it isn’t inept, I think the fanbase would be happy all the time.
And hell, I’ll take all of the angry fanbasing that I can get, especially considering we live in an area where mediocrity and contentedness reigns supreme.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Just look at the number of posts on game threads these days.
The team climbs to near respectability, and it’s ridiculous the level of interest out there. That’s a good thing. Kahn needs to rediscover the “Thank you for your interest and your passion” tone from those early Open Letters.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Got a link to that?
I don’t know what PiPress is.
If they’re pouting, than that’s idiotic. I am happy for them but I don’t like when the good guys let themselves get bullied. It happens all the time and I’m tired of it. For once, I want to see that change.
Wes and Beasley should first look at their stat sheets and then start pouting. I genuinly find both of them likable and I root for them to make it, but their least concern should be the mental state of Minny fans. They should worry about their game. If they play better, Minny fans will be more stable.
goofy domain name
Keelhaul, the StPaul Pioneer press thought it would be funny to call there site twincities.com. That way they can lay low.
http://www.twincities.com/timberwolves/ci_19872854
go woofs to you and yours,
b
by Benthefolksinger on Feb 2, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
For those who didn't find it
PiPress = Pioneer Press = St. Paul Newspaper = www.twincities.com
Specific article: http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_19872854
Really insulting crap if you ask me.
Look Kahn, I get it. You think we are all a bunch of whining, emotion, emo, idiots of epic proportions. If only we were as even-keel, patient, and long-range-thinking as you. Don’t get too excited, and don’t pine for a trade. We need to wait for these ducklings to become … ducks?
Here is the problem you don’t get. SnP said Wes would be terrible and George would be better. So did Alluridae. So did a lot of other guys who like numbers. Those same folks said Flynn was not going to be very good, but several other PGs from the draft would be. This is not random angst or 20-20 hindsight. This is a dedicated fanbase that looks at numbers more than you and has more accurately predicted the draft than you. Now your young team is a little bit promising but is somewhat f*cked because it has no wings because you flushed down a bunch of top draft picks on useless players. Now you are about out of assets when you could have to trade for a real contender.
So save it Kahn. Players have finite playing careers. You are not going to get 30 more seasons like this from Love. Or Rubio. Win while you can.
Swallow your ego on Wes, AR, Beasley, and Webster. None of these guys are ever going to be consistently above average guys. Trade them for one wing who can play every day and give above average results.
Swallow your ego on Williams. If Adelman says he is never going to play SF well, then find an above average wing or C that fits what the team needs and pull the trigger.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 2, 2012 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
wow
I wish I hadn’t read that. What a smarmy asshole. I’m the paying fan, quit telling me how to think. 60+% of what you do is demonstrably wrong
Flynn = wrong
trading Lawson = wrong
Rubio = Right
Johnson = wrong
DWill & Lee = too soon to tell I really think Williams was wrong since Valancuinas was available and trading down for a good non-PF would also have been better.
Trading for and signing Darko = wrong
Barea = unknown, probably good,
Beasley = wrong though a reasonable gamble in my opinion
AR = I can’t really classify this one, minimal playing time
draft Lazar = wrong
trade lazar = ok
Draft Ellington = meh decent call I guess.
Not trading Flynn earlier (i.e. Pacers deal) = massively wrong
Hiring Adelman =awesome
congrats you took my ire away from 3 particular players … now please learn to draft good players.
To be fair to Kahn
I think the one thumbing his nose most at the fans in that article seems to be Tom Powers.
Although this is vintage Kahn:
I’m pleased for Kevin (Love). He’s the only player to predate me.
…said in the midst of a stretch where Pek’s been his third-best player. Kind of reminds me of the truth-stretching about clearing cap space when he started (he completed a bunch of neutral moves, but McHale’s actually the one who did the most damage control on this front with the Love deal and the Heat deal…)
He is also asked if he’s surprised by Rubio, and he says while it’s earlier than he expected, he’s not surprised because this is the guy he saw in Madrid in Feb 2009. Maybe he’s just being glib, but that doesn’t ease my concerns that, like McHale, this guy approaches evaluation by the seat of his pants…
to his credit
he did keep both of those guys, and seemed to be pretty enthusiastic about Pek (giving him a contract)
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
he tried to get rid of Love after dismissing his potential
I guess you could call that his best failure?
But he didn't
whatever he may have thought, he ultimately chose to keep Kevin. That might even be a bigger testimate to him as he initially didn’t think Love would be a good player to build around, and whether he kept him by default cause he couldn’t find a good enough deal for him (which in itself is pretty knowledgeable about Love’s value) he ultimately chose Kevin Love
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He spoke dismissively of Love...
and reportedly was involved in numerous disgustingly lopsided Love trades. Every statistically inclined Wolves fan thought the language around Love was ridiculous at the time, and we have been more than vindicated. He got lucky in that none of those negotiations worked out, but the tone, the descriptions, the rumors, all point to a gross misevaluation of Love. Kahn just got lucky. The recent resigning debacle is a frightening indicator that Kahn (although that may be on Taylor) still hasn’t learned.
I've always been a huge Love fan
I do think he has exceeded every possible expectation/statistical prediction of the player he absolutely could have been.
A lot of that is due to his work-ethic, but I mean I initially thought that maybe when he was like 28 in his prime he might put up a 24+ ppg total in a season….but even at that I was a little…ehh….not sure. What he is doing right now is absolutely freakish player development.
that shouldn’t let Kahn off the hook, but it’s a fair point that even while it was very obvious Love was gonna be a good player….franchise tag was a bit of a stretch until this year really.
Last year he put up excellent numbers, but coming from an individual like myself who believes in intangibles and go-to scoring as big factors in “max-contract” type players I was still in the, probably best he’s a no.2 player camp. But he’s won me over this year completely.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
All I can say...
is that it didn’t surprise me. None of it.
By the time Kahn was our GM, I knew Love was already close to, and for his career would be, one of the best players in the league. I wasn’t a lone wolf on this either. There was debate at the time, but plenty of people knew what Love was. Kahn didn’t.
This biggest rip on Kahn as far as Love goes..
was Kahns trying to lure David Lee here. I NEVER understood that. It showed what he really though of Love even though the rest of us had already figured out that Love was going to be more than a decent player.
"But this one goes to eleven..."
David Lee...
…Ryan Hollins, 3rd or 4th option, not giving him the Westbrook deal…the list goes on and on and on.
to be honest with you
the one thing i like about loves deal, is that if he opts out him and rubio can decide together if they want to make MN their team on the same length deals
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't you like the Hollins signing when it happened?
I agree the guy sucked, don’t get me wrong, but I thought there was some genuine optimism at the time. Might be misremembering.
Here's Stop-n-Pop's take on the signing:
Offense, part I
Defense, Part II
But see, that has next-to-nothing to do with whether Hollins started over Kevin Love. Hollins started over Kevin Love!! The context in which you’re responding to this has to do with Kahn’s, and the Wolves’ organization’s, sense of Kevin Love’s value and potential as a player.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Oh, I understand fully that Hollins started over Love.
And I agree it is hard to understand.
But we’re talking about Kahn, right? At least that’s what I thought we were talking about. That’s exactly my point above. Kahn isn’t responsible for Hollins starting. He’s responsible for signing Hollins, which didn’t cause much of an uproar at the time. (S-n-P: “All in all I’m pretty happy with this signing.”)
We have enough to hang around David Kahn’s neck as is.
Did you read any of those links?
Let’s say you’re preparing a meal. A nice steak. You buy a 2 inch Porterhouse, some fresh peppercorns, and some olive oil. You bring it home to be cooked and the person doing the cooking prepares you a nice slop of olive oil, peppercorns, and a sliver of steak.
He was signed to be a bench player. He started. Over the steak.
Nevermind.
For the record, yes, I did read the links. Maybe more closely than you read my post.
Okay...
For whatever reason the tone of your post is still bugging me, especially since (a) the cook is to blame in your metaphor above and (b) you say that Ryan Hollins was signed to be a bench player, implying that the person who signed him knew his limitations and made a reasonable decision.
I read what you write and I appreciate the site and your effort. If I came across as a jerk somehow, I apologize. I just think that if we’re blaming Kahn for player rotations, we’re past the point of reasonable criticism. But that’s just me.
If only...
… the verb “predate” were etymologically related to the noun “predator.” Then I would be happy.
by TheH on Feb 2, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I liked the part
about how we shouldn’t be thinking about playoffs this year, and it wouldn’t be the end of the world if we don’t make it.
We’re 2-3 quality players away from being, very, very good. Get those guys ASAP.
tone Deaf comment on the Playoffs, Tone Deaf period.
Never say that…NEVER
As far as the fanbase is concerned, you’re annoyed with all the negativity and so are a good percentage of people on this site…but you don’t say that publicly and you don’t demean these people…its just friggin Tone Deaf again….
Here’s what you say…we have a Passionate Fan Base and we’re trying our best to Make it into the Playoffs and ultimately Win a Championship.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 2, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not even a matter of negativity/positivity
The fans watching this team have been through a lot over the years. They still watch. They pay attention and they are intelligent. There’s not a lot of bandwagoning yet. It’s still grassroots and word of mouth. There are very good reasons why fans might be up and down. The roster is imbalanced more than the distance between happy/sad that Powers is bitching about. Fans can see this and they’re not stupid. There are obvious fixes and FUBARs and pretty much everybody who still watches this team knows that score.
We should gift Kahn a chart
Listing what he has to do and what he is not supposed to do.
Calling out the fanbase is surely not in a gm’s job description. Actually, if I’d be Glen, that interview would push me towards firing him. He is hurting the business.
Calling out the fanbase is in Tom Powers' job description.
He’s supposed to do that all day long.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Tom Powers
I mean, how do these guys have jobs anymore.
Sid gets grandfathered in, but just get rid of Souhan, Powers, Sansevere.
Reusse…you just write about baseball, thats it.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 2, 2012 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
The fact that being 10-12 has us skipping in the hallway
should be the biggest indictment on this franchise yet.
I put it in another spot...
….but with all of these “rethinking Kahn” articles popping up I drafted the following but never put it up (or proofed it):
There has been something of a rash of recent articles, thoughts, tweets, whatever concerning the job performance of everybody’s favorite POBO, David Kahn. Whether the article is a stretch attempt to connect the words "OKC model" with what is happening in Minny, or an earnest attempt to place David Kahn as the common denominator in the team’s current rise, there seems to be a general rethinking of Kahn and his place in franchise history.
Is it time to look at the POBO with a brand new perspective? We’ll take a look at things below the fold.
Let’s start with the Sam Presti/OKC Model question and work into the rest of it.
Models and plans are for marketing departments. The Blueprint? Yeah, that was for selling tickets. The reason why Sam Presti and the Oklahoma City Thunder are really good is because Sam Presti and Kevin Durant are among the best in the world at what they do. That’s the "plan". That’s the "model". You can’t duplicate a process that is completely contingent on the talent of the people executing it. However, since the claim is tossed around, let’s take a quick look at what has happened in OKC/Seattle.
Sam Presti was hired as a 30 year old dynamo in June of 2007. He had previously worked for the San Antonio Spurs and was widely credited for encouraging the Spurs to draft Tony Parker. Here are his first 10 significant moves as GM of the Seattle SuperSonics:
1- Drafted Kevin Durant
2- Drafted Carl Landry
3- Drafted Glen Davis
4- Traded Carl Landry to the Rockets
5- Traded Ray Allen and Glen Davis to the Celtics for Jeff Green, Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West, and a 2nd rounder
6- Traded Rashard Lewis to the Magic for a 2nd round pick and a $9 mil trade exception
7- Traded a 2nd round pick and the Lewis trade exception to the Suns for Kurt Thomas and 2 1st round picks
8- Traded Kurt Thomas to the Spurs for Brent Barry, Francisco Elson and a 2009 1st round pick
9- Drafted Russell Westbrook
10- Drafted Serge Ibaka
Here are David Kahn’s first 10 significant moves as the POBO of the Minnesota Timberwolves:
1- Traded Randy Foye and Mike Miller to the Washington Wizards for Stewie, Darius Songalia, Etan Thomas, and a 1st round pick
2- Drafted Ricky Rubio
3- Drafted Jonny Flynn
4- Traded the 18th pick to the Denver Nuggets for a 2010 1st round pick
5- Drafted Wayne Ellington
6- Traded Mark Madsen, Craig Smith, and Bassy to the Clips for Quentin Richardson
7- Signed Ryan Hollins as a FA
8- Signed Ramon Sessions as a FA
9- Signed Sasha Pavlovic as a FA
10- Traded Brian Cardinal to the New York Knicks for Darko Milicic and cash
Sam Presti has drafted Kevin Durant, Carl Landry, Glen Davis, Roddy Beaubois, Russell Westbrook, and Serge Ibaka. He’s made use of late first round picks. The core of the Thunder was assembled in fairly short order and they made great use of their numerous first round draft picks.
David Kahn saw Ricky Rubio in the Olympics and used a shrewd trade to be in a position to grab him with the 5th pick. He also spent the better part of his first two years collecting players that would put up some of the worst seasons in franchise history. You can make a very solid case that Jonny Flynn, Sasha Pavlovic, Wes Johnson, and Damien Wilkins put up 4 of the worst 5 individual seasons in Timberwolvesdom.
Throughout his 3 years as POBO, Mr. Kahn has possessed 8 of the 24 first round picks in franchise history. Ricky Rubio is the only good starter to show for it. Derrick Williams
All the while Mr. Kahn has peppered the road with some of the most baffling quotes in all of professional sports. Here he is describing the 2009 trade that sent the 18th pick to the Denver Nuggets:
At the 18th pick, we did not believe we could identify a player who would be worthy of that rookie scale slot and become part of our core nucleus, so in an attempt to further stockpile assets, we traded it for a future first-round pick with only modest lottery protection. This will prove to be valuable. We also traded one of our two second-round picks for a 2010 second-round pick.
That future first-round pick was then moved along with Ryan Gomes to Portland in exchange for another version of Ryan Gomes, Martell Webster.
We all know about the "windows of opportunity", "raise your hands", "who could have predicted?", "singular moves", "significant fine tuning", and a host of other amazing tidbits that escaped his lips. We’ve seen circuitous move after circuitous move (my favorite is when he signed Ramon Sessions, threw him to a coach who ruined his game, signed Luke Ridnour, traded Sessions for Delonte West and Sebastian Telfair, and then waived West) and we’ve gone through 3 seasons of being told version after version of this:
http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/3/24/1387505/interview-with-wolves-president
Obviously, I think how I would characterize that is that David has a position to take advantage of, possibly, the biggest off-season in franchise history. It is up to him and his staff that the assets we have accumulated are utilized correctly. The fact that we have a top 5 pick, the fact that we have Utah’s and Charlotte’s pick and expiring contracts, and that we are positioned well in a massive free agency market, it can be potentially one of the great summers in our franchise.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
At no point of the way has David Kahn ever given the Wolves fan base a reason to think that he understands that anyone not named Ricky Rubio might be an above average professional basketball player.
And there’s the kicker.
To his great credit, from the day he fell to #5 in the draft, Mr. Kahn knew he had something in Ricky Rubio that was worth building around. Ricky Rubio is the reason why the team wants to run and have a bunch of athletes that can catch ally-oops. He’s the guy putting the butts in the seat. He’s the magical unicorn that is providing the 2nd player’s worth of above average production. Ricky Rubio is David Kahn’s Spanish Cash Cow in every imaginable way and Ricky Rubio seems to be good enough to make a lot of the other nonsense fade into the background.
Taking a quick look at the current roster, 2 of the team’s top 3 performers are McHale guys and only Luke Ridnour is performing at .100+ wp48. The team’s three worst performers are Wes Johnson, Martell WebsterMichael Beasley, and Darko Milicic.
The team certainly isn’t winning in spite of the POBO, but he certainly didn’t do himself any favors by failing to surround his one brilliant personnel move with much of anything else. This team doesn’t have depth. It has two amazing performers, an emerging center who can only be stopped by foul trouble, and a bunch of ok performers who every now and then approximate the type of production needed to win at a decent level. Do we really know if his method of player evaluation has evolved beyond "long and athletic"? I’m not sure we do.
The other feather in his cap is the hiring of Rick Adelman. I could not have been more wrong about Kahn being a barrier for a good coach to show up at 600 First Avenue, but somehow it all worked out, with Team Adelman riding in to provide the Country Club with some much needed professionalism and competence.
So, what do we make of all of this?
- 2 great moves
- no evidence of competent player personnel selection
- overrated cap/financial management
- willingness to cut bait early on failures
- shared personnel duties with team adelman?
- he’s the misfit toy of the league’s front offices.
- is he one of us in the misfit sense?
- philosophical tangent about forgiveness- – Hannah Arendt, paradox of forgiveness,
Conclusion: acceptance on the island. Hope that lessons have been learned, points of forgiveness to move forward (moving D-Will for functional player w/30-35 mpg along side Love/Rubio), taking another McHale player in the starting lineup, staying out of the limelight.
I’d have to clean up the Presti draft stuff (he drafted Roddy and Davis for other teams) and tighten up some of the bad writing, but I think it basically comes down to Kahn making 2 really good moves surrounded by a bunch of crap, embarrassing comments, and no evidence of player eval skills.
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 2, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Nice summary
These recent articles on Kahn building the next OKC are pretty dumb. We have two good young players, one of whom he didn’t acquire. He’s responsible for acquiring exactly one starting-quality NBA player (Rubio), and a really good coach. Give him credit for those things, but please don’t ignore the fact that he’s blown a bunch of draft picks and failed to acquire any legit starters through FA or trade.
Presti obtained 2 first rounders for taking Kurt Thomas (and his contract), and then turned around and got another one for his expiring contract a year later, and he’s absolutely killed it in the draft. Let me know when Kahn does anything like that.
Actually the most interesting argument there for me is the Presti one,
to the effect that he’s going about things in a pretty ad hoc way, but is plain good at his job.
I find that pretty convincing. There are definitely times when OKC has gone aggressively after what it needed – center, two summers ago and then with the Perkins trade – but he’s felt his way along in the dark like anyone else.
If anything Kahn (and Rambis with him) have been at the other end of that spectrum, thinking in doctrinaire ways about what a team should look like. “We need to run.”
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Remember when OKC was a failed Chandler physical away from getting...
…the best defensive center in the game?
Completely agreed on the Presti bit. It’s the “plan”. Get smart people to do smart things. Always be on the lookout for better things, don’t get locked in to any particular way of doing things, and roll with the punches.
Not that it's up to me
but I’d love to see you complete and post this. I suspect it would generate plenty of comments/discussion on its own.
I don't really know how to finish it
I think he’s a buffoon who doesn’t know the first thing about player evaluation. Every now and then “long and athletic” or “super flashy and fast” will land him a good player. Every now and then his bureaucratic in fighting style will land him a good coach or a scout. However, it’s simply not something anyone can bank on and it’s haphazard. Somewhere out there, there is an alternate universe with a Wolves team that hired Marc Jackson and drafted Thabeet and Flynn. The same guy that hired the worst coach in team history is the same guy who got Adelman. You want to talk about being up and down?
Also..
…..the best part about the trollish Powers article is that he derides the fan base for being manic/up and down but he doesn’t have the curiosity to wonder why such a thing might even exist. Could it be that the guy in charge hired the worst and best coach in franchise history? Could it be that the fans just witnessed the 4th worst 2 year stretch in league history and are now watching competent basketball? Maybe it’s because the team is basically Love + Rubio vs. Kahn’s nonsense. Is there a team with more huge gaps than the Wolves?
there's a damn good article in there somewhere
and i would include in that the treasure trove of dysfunction which is Taylor Corp.
for whatever reason our local Sports Journalists don’t have a clue, or don’t think it’s a story worth pursuing.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 2, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Aren't professional sports writers
absolutely forbidden from peeking behind the curtain?
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
And is there a glimmer of a possibility
that a team of CHers could actually amateur sleuth together a peek behind that curtain?
It might give SB Nation’s brain/legal trust a heart attack, but I’m thinking CH could blow the lid off the NBA, Timberwolves first!
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
I think so
I’d love for Jay Rosen or MPR to do a story on sports writing and editorial decision making in the sports department.
I think it is a combo of cost and access. They need the daily article and the cheapest way of doing this is to write down a few quotes from the presser and to not be adversarial (that’s what columnists are for!) or to, you know, have the appearance of casting judgment.
Personally, I think you could write about any team in the league with little more than League Pass. You don’t need access to write about this stuff. They just give cliched answers in the pressers anyway.
Which is why
Sports blogs are becoming the main source of basketball sportswriting. I don’t know too many basketball fans who go to the star trib or PiPress first for their Wolves articles.
Heh.
I even come here first for the scores if I missed the game.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
The flaws we rail against are often ones we're seeing in a funhouse mirror.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
You forgot
Drafted a great point guard followed immediately by the worst one ever
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
A bit much.
So he’s even guilty of drafting Thabeet?
I don’t blame you for the cynicism, but damn, that glass isn’t half empty – it’s fallen on the floor and broken.
It doesn't matter honestly.
Every time I’ve defended Kahn I’ve been burned. So I’m not going to bother.
I really don’t understand what you’re trying to say….that I said he’s guilty of drafting Thabeet? I honestly don’t get it.
Like I said..
.don’t worry man. I understand you strongly dislike Kahn and I should have left it at that. My post made no sense and would be more effort to explain than to just ignore.
Looking for a spot to tell you
"Un"willingness to cut bait.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
A point that is lost too often.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
That's why it's interesting
Just like you and I discussed in that other thread, on the one hand, the guy doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt on decision-making; on the other, well, despite that, guys like Bill Simmons are listing Love/Rubio amongst the top duos he’d like to build around for the next 10 years. What if they are really just a move or two away? In a results-oriented business, how much does lucky v. good matter? How much is fair? How much can you bank on it in the future? Can he be trusted to be humble/smart enough to understand his strengths and weaknesses and adjust to that, or is he always going to be the Bono wannabe that struts through MSP with Rubio or won’t shut up when they expect a cliche remark at the draft lotto?
While I think we are one or 2 moves away
Those moves get made by Kahn, and I am honestly torn to whether I think he will actually do the right thing
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Boom.
I hope he reads this, digests it, and shuts up. But I guess this is just you acting bipolar.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
We'll call it...
A “Jump to Kahn-clusions” chart. Get it?
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
remember the Pet rock?
that guy made millions
At first I thought you wrote
Pek rock. I think we could sell some of those….
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Way better than pet rocks
A Pek rock is big enough to smash someone’s skull in (but with practice you can just crack them a little, leaving you with a pristine skull to add to your pile).
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
I hate to say this
I don’t really see what’s so wrong with the article
He almost goes out of his way to not give himself credit for this.
I don’t see anything about Williams/Wes/Beasley/Darko and not biting bullets
It sounds like he realizes the road is not done yet, but also has frame-of-mind to not make any rash decisions.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
by VoodooMagic on Feb 2, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
He's preaching patience to an extraordinarily patient fanbase
I didn’t like the line about it “not being the end of the world” if we don’t make the playoffs this year. Sure, it’s not the end of the world, but I hope he’s not depending on a bunch more player development to take us there. We need players.
okay
you make a move like say Beasley for….idk someone that can help but has a longer deal then you move out of Nic Batum running in the off-season though
it’s about smart moves. I agree a move should be made, but the likelihood of a move that is win-now that doesn’t effect the chances we sign Batum/Hibbert in the offseason is slim no? I mean, theoretically we could trade for Batum, but it would have to be Williams and if POR can’t find clock for Batum what the hell they gonna do with Williams?
I like getting Mayo for a draft pick. he’s an RFA so they can sign him if they want but he doesn’t necessarily affect FA opportunities
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yuck
Mayo isnt that good and hes gonna want a bunch of money
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure how much I would pay him
but isn’t that good is a bit harsh. He’s a great 3 point shooter, plays defense, drives better than any of our SGs unless you count Barea….
He is putting up pretty respectable numbers bra
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mayooj01.html
for a guy who always passes the eye-test these numbers a pretty promising.
He’s basically doing what we hoped Beasley would do this year as in he’s the uber-talent head case who’s starting to turn it around
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Career stats similar to Courtney Lee
Both advanced and /36 except ORtg and Drtg. He is gonna cost about twice as much. Ill pass and go for someone else.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
he's a FA though
so he literally costs you nothing more this year than what you would already spend in Brad Miller.
If you don’t like him you can dump him in the off-season
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Except that
That depends on them accepting a trade. He is playing well for them so our garbage (hey dont we trade Wes or beasley for him) crap is never going to fly.
If you want him youre gonna have to pay for him in the summer or give up actual value and that is something I wouldnt do for him
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
"so he literally costs you nothing more this year than what you would already spend in Brad Miller."
That and the draft pick you gave up to get him…
I was under the impression
most people were sick of the draft here?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
(Honestly, I don't see the head case in Mayo.)
He’s busted his butt working to overcome the problems with his game. He was willing to play summer ball at PG to add some of that. He apparently tried some sort of PED to get an edge, which I don’t like but which still counts as basically scratching at that wall, trying to get somewhere.
Maybe he had a tussle with Tony Allen – who really is that kind of volatile “head case” by all accounts – but basically Mayo is a reasonably intelligent player. His abilities are the limitation, not his attitude.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I think the "head case" thing with Mayo
is just leftovers from his HS career. His pro career has actually gone pretty much the opposite way everyone predicted back then. He was supposed to be some sort of wildly talented, volatile guy whose attitude might hold him back, instead, he’s been a hardworking effort guy who just doesn’t quite have the ability to be a star.
Quietly, I think he and Love make for an interesting "race" juxtaposition.
Switch their races, for example, and their draft night perceptions and personae work how? Mayo in his erudite-looking glasses is the acclaimed PG prospect. Love’s the hard hat worker; do we see him the same way if his skin’s the color of Wes Unseld, after whom he got his middle name?
Ironically, Love has at least as good a chance of forcing a trade to Los Angeles as Mayo, but we were all worried about Mayo doing that on draft night.
It’s weird how they’ve been linked. Look, I can even get a draft-night picture of them in the same image file.

UCLA, USC. Minnesota, Memphis. Somehow it does feel right that they might wind up on a roster together at some point.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Wow.
Compared to the current version, that picture of Love looks like a chubby-cheeked Gerber baby.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'm hoping for it
I like Mayo on this team
Is he the answer? Maybe not, but he feels like a very complimentary SG to Rubio.
Also consider trading for him then signing a Nic Batum in free agency…that’s a squad right there. top 3 West team for 7 years in the making
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
BTW, I'm glad you stopped...
blowing the DeRozan horn. His third season has taken a sharp turn from “promising” to Wesley Johnson territory.
You aren't kidding. He's in absolute free-fall mode.
Its amazing how far he’s fallen since a GREAT start. And your Wes comparison is dead on…
yeah
DD is proving to be fool’s gold to everyone that wanted him last season. I wonder if Evan Turner is next?
For the loser now
Will be later to win
Ill still take
Big V and DD for Williams though. Mainly for big V ;)
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
I've absolutely zero reason
to think that this is possible but I’d rather trade for Mayo and then find a way to acquire T Prince from the Pistons.
We need some veteran stability and it seems to me that Batum’s upside is Prince (albeit with much younger legs).
I disagree.
I think he was clearly 1) commiserating with long-term fans and players, as I’ve heard him do many times (even if Powers didn’t get all the quotes in there. 2) telling new and old fans of the team that it’s still a very new group, so patience should be rewarded.
People freak out over the most harmless Kahn quotes.
by fanslaststand on Feb 2, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
what a douche
As the saying goes, “check the scoreboard”. This team has sucked for years. You should be happy that anyone still wants to watch this team.
And actually…the more I think about it…
F*ck you David. I can watch the Wild, or the Gophers. At least when they play like crap I’m still entertained.
Reason is the first victim of strong emotion.
Yep! we should get a petition for Glen Taylor
And eventually I hope Adelman takes Kahns position and moves his son into the head coaching position. lol
I'm by no means a fan of Kahn
But Tom Powers is a tabloid terrorist who looks to blow things up to draw a crowd. I give him the same sort of attention I would a lapdog or Crush Limpaw. This article was written to sell papers, period!
As for Kahn and the tryouts, otherwise known as an actual NBA season by the fans, i do think that we need to give the trioka of timidity as long a rope as the GM. So come the end of this season, goodbye and good riddance to Wes, Beas, Darko, and anyone except Pek, Ricky, and Love. Oh and David? Don’t let the door of opportunities hit you in the arse on the way out…..
Ricky is lobbing at an Ooptimal level!
George would be incredible on this team
Although I will say this is probably an example of a bad decision (taking Wes #4 overall) made even worse because Wes has performed at the terrible end of his spectrum while George has been very good (in a role the Wolves desperately need, to boot). I think at the time of the draft they were fairly close as prospects, and each one had some significant concerns. But the Wolves’ mistake was failing to maximize their pick’s value, I think. Wes at #4 was just bad.
It is intoxicating to wonder what-if, though. What if they had moved down and took Paul George (whom they supposedly did like and worked out)? What if they had moved down and took the Manther and then moved up a bit from their 27 lower picks to take Kawhi Leonard (neither of whom, conversely, were on their radar I don’t think)? Biyombo/Love/Leonard/George/Rubio…whee!!!
what if they had dealt Flynn for the Indy pick as was rumored to be available
they could have taken DMC or Monroe at 4 (or dealt it) and also gotten George. All of a sudden we lose one of the worst players ever to get serious NBA minutes (Flynn) and gain a good rookie.
woulda been nice
I wanted Paul George so bad
and Monroe would have been great
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I can't help myself
The Queen City Hoops “player swap” tool calculates a +9.2 in net efficiency by swapping Wes for George….
Seems like an appropriate place to put this...
Wesley Johnson has a net PER of -15.6 at SG this season. The difference in production between Wesley Johnson and his opponen is equivalent to that of an above-average player. Savor that for a moment.
by vjl110 on Feb 2, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I almost can't get my head around that...
This may be a dumb question (and I’m no hockey guy, but as an illustration), but is that suggestive that when the Wolves run Wes out there, they’re essentially trying to kill a 4-on-5 power play, with the opponent having an extra average player on the floor?
by jianfu on Feb 2, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Great analogy.
We’re effectively playing shorthanded every time he’s on the floor. Yet he is still starting, somehow.
Piling on...
here is a list of all players in NBA history to play 20 minutes a game for at least 20 games, shoot 4 or more 3s per 36 minutes, and have a 3pt% below 25%…
Wesley Johnson this season, and Smush Parker in 07/08.
by vjl110 on Feb 2, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Smush Johnson
anyone?
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
This reminds me of Delmon young a couple of years ago.
In baseball most advanced statistics compare a player to a “replacement player”. In basketball terms, this would be a D-leaguer – someone you can get for nothing.
Delmon was playing so far below replacement level that replacing him with an average player would have been the equilavent of adding a borderline all-star. And, much like Wes, he was actually pretty expensive for being in his pre-free agency years (in his case, this was because he had gotten lots of PT and accrued lots of useless counting stats).
The more I think of it, the more I realize that Wes = Delmon.
- Both were bad bets to start but had some serious potential.
- The FO in both cases stuck with them forever because of that potential.
- They both got worse as time went on.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 2, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
Got a question about the Twinkies
I grew up on the team. I remember the pain of Ron Davis, I rooted for Johnny Castino, I played at Bossen Field in south Mpls as a left hitting right throwing #14 wearing first baseman.
I left the sport after steroids and the strike. I read/hear about the Twins tangentially. Are they some sort of super racket? They seem to be a baseball form of WCCO: locked in the past and selling a way of life that no longer exists. Why is Terry Ryan back in charge? Does he know what he’s doing?
It all just seems weird from afar. I’m wondering if it is equally weird up close.
TR knows what he's doing.
He out Moneyballed Moneyball and his leadership got them all those division titles in the 2000s.
As for the Twins’ appeal – they’re a baseball team. Lots of people love baseball, especially when a scrappy team of good guys starts improbably winning division titles and playoff teams.
You can see the beginnings of the same things with the Wolves right now. After a long period of suck, things are finally looking up and some wins are happening. Fans will hop on that bandwagon right quick.
All I know is that the current organization
Always does just enough to win, which isn’t much when you consider what division they play in.
They never field a good enough team to compete in the playoffs, and their rotation is pretty horrible.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 10:38 PM CST up reply actions
Delmon Young's had a much better professional career than Wes Johnson.
Not a compliment to either of them.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Feb 3, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
makes me depressed
that Love and Ricky will (likely) be wasted here. It could have been so great. Kahn could have taken Curry in 09. He could have taken Monroe in 10 and traded Flynn for the 10th pick that became Paul George. He could have traded the 4th pick outright for Batum (which was heavily rumored).
If he would’ve made ONE of those moves, this team is MUCH better. Kahn is a dolt, and I hope he gets fired before it’s too late and Love and Ricky walk away together in 3 years rather than re-sign.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
Yeah
I mean, I trust Adelman, but man, I’m ready to move on from these two…
I almost get psychologically deflated a bit when they display the starting lineups/pictures and the Wolves have a whole lot of Wes, Darko, Ridnour…
Me too
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 2, 2012 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
Darko plays more
when the opposing center is tall. It’s been this way all season long. I doubt it changes.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
But it's not just Darko
It’s multiple guys that are questionable starters now that we are healthy again. I get why Adelman may want Darko in there to start halves. It saves Pekovic and Love from getting early fouls and Darko can be free to defend aggressively against the opposing team’s best big man.
The problem is starting Darko AND Wes AND Ridnour. The most perplexing one is Wes. How much more incompetence do we need to see!?
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 2, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
I can see rooting for Wes,
because he has the physical tools and he seems like a decent teammate, but his head just isn’t in it. He rarely plays with intensity, shows little basketball IQ (except for the occasional nice pass), and really, really dislikes contact. I guess Adelman thinks he can fix that. I’m skeptical, to say the least.
I don't actually buy that Adelman sees something in Wes
I buy that Adelman is trying to win games, and Wes is what he has, so he’s doing what he can to get the most out of Wes. Same with Beasley and Darko for that matter.
I’d be shocked if Adelman hasn’t put in requests for real NBA starters at the 2 & 3.
really dislikes contact
plays afraid
but yeah, it’s almost like he needs to go see Rocky before every game, deep down in that talent well of his I can see a player we could use.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 2, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
What's that Lassie?
The shooting guard’s fallen into the well, and needs his testosterone shot? Roof! Roof! Run and tell farmer Jones!
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
by feral on Feb 2, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
there ya have it
Wes Johnson’s career as a Timberwolf is now reliant on Farmer Jones saving his ass.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 2, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Don't include Ridnour in there
he’s outclassed on defense against SGs and he has an odd offensive game but it’s mostly effective. He is nowhere near the level of sucktitude that the others provide.
Slight nonsequitur,
but I think Ridnour will be traded by the deadline as long as Barea stays healthy. That’s no knock on him — I just think some other team will want him, we’ll be too crowded in the back court (especially if they want to get a look at Lee), and it would help free up cap space for next summer.
You'd think a team like the Blazers might like him
or the Lakers unless they have an evil plot in mind like Bill Simmons thinks they do (Bynum for Dwight; Pau for DWill…)
Berea is a much worse player than Ridnour
JJ is not a point guard, He is a 5’11" shooting guard. He looked horrible last night. I would trade JJ and keep Luke if we can.
I don't think he's much worse
I think he’s more of a ball hog but better at creating looks in the paint and breaking down defenses. They’re both liabilities on defense but I like JJ a lot better on that end. Luke is the much better jump shooter and better at feeding the post. They’re comparable players and I would give a slight edge to Luke as long as Rubio is healthy.
Yeah...
the community seems to really prefer JJ to Ridnour, but I think that is just the “new toy” gleam on JJ. Barea has some serious flaws. They were especially evident last night, but we have seen many signs earlier in the season.
JJ is the better defender, but I still probably take Ridnour if I need to choose. Rid’s peerless mid-range game at least stretches the D like few other players in the league.
by vjl110 on Feb 2, 2012 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
'peerless mid-range...etc'
let’s not get toooo caught up in hyperbole, here. he’s a decent shooter.
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
stretching the D like "few other players in the league"
…seems a bit ridiculous considering the fact that other teams don’t really give him that much defensive attention. it’s not like he’s attracting the other teams’ defensive stoppers. unless we are redefining the word “few.”
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Feb 2, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
Dude.
Luke can SHOOT.
Defense? Perhaps not.
But shooting? He’s awesome at shooting. Pretty much elite level.
again...
…his elite-level shooting doesn’t seem to translate into actual production on a regular basis. where is the disconnect happening? decision-making? is he simply not getting enough looks? i don’t doubt that, percentage-wise, he’s a phenomenal shooter, but why are his averages so…average? it’s hard for me to call someone who has averaged low teens for years and years on mediocre teams “elite.”
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Feb 2, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
No...
he really is peerless in that respect.
Last season Rid shot 58.2% 10-15 feet. The next best player to take at least 1 attempt per game shot 55.6% (Hinrich). He also shot 45% 16-23… this year he is shooting 51% from that range. Add to that his ability to drain the 3 and he is a damn good floor stretcher.
Maybe not peerless, but there are very few players that have consistently put up the mid-range numbers he has, and nearly all of those players are assisted on most of their shots (Rid isn’t).
just realized....
I said “he is peerless” then…. “maybe not peerless”
I would love an edit function.
Ridnour is undoubtedly a 1st tier shooter, and he doesn’t just do it spotting up. How is that?
so why isn't he more awesome!?
he really isn’t stretching other teams’ defenses. i dunno. maybe his decision making just sucks.
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Feb 2, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
I think he is pretty awesome, actually.
He’s helping the Wolves’ offense almost as much as Love and Rubio. I think we get mad at him because he doesn’t look like he’s operating as smooth as Ricky, and he’s below-average guarding 2’s.
But they guy has had a big role in the team’s success this year.
His decision making does suck...
which makes his percentages even more amazing.
I hate watching him play. He constantly makes me cringe, but the ball goes in. If I was grading on style I would be leading the charge in Ridnour hate, but the bastard produces. According to WS/48 he is effectively tied with Rubio (.124 vs. .122) and his WP/48 is one of the best on the team as well. Luke isn’t more awesome, because he is a pretty terrible defender and he is too small for what seems to be his natural position (SG.) If he was 3 inches taller we would be set at the 2-guard.
I think everyone's right here
On the one hand, he’s a top flight shooter when he gets an open shot. On the other hand, his lack of size and athleticism makes it difficult for him to get open shots. He can’t just rise above his defender and hit jumpers in their face. As a result, he has a tough time scoring in volume.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 2, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
You might be right...
but I am a little skeptical of the claim that he doesn’t have the size and athleticism to get his shot off. Have you seen the shots he takes? He is either flying around screens and tossing one up from 20 feet, or shamelessly shooting with a surprised defender right in his face. Not the kind of shots a player needs to “work” for.
To me it seems like he could get the shots he takes whenever he wants… but that leaves me trying to explain why he doesn’t shoot more, so I guess I will go with your interpretation for now.
Well
It’s amazing he does what he does to begin with. The dude looks like he belongs in a Y league at first glance. He has zero physical advantage – strength, speed, or size – yet still manages to score at an OKish clip. I find that pretty amazing.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 2, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
He is a good scorer.
I have no problem with Luke getting every minute as a backup PG. Luke’s issue is they are starting him as a SG. His aforementioned lack of speed and size are both detrimental in this position. He does what he can and is “heady” enough to make some decent team defense plays, but if he faces a scoring SG, they are usually 3-6 inches taller than him and quicker off the dribble. This is a huge issue because he cannot impact their shot if they just decide to rise up, nor can he stop them from getting in the lane. Ridnour is a likeable guy and a decent backup PG, but starting him at SG is completely unnecessary and is not helping the team. Rubio can setup all the offense for the starting unit.
by Imyourhuckleberry on Feb 2, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
I actually think it's totally necessary for now to start him along Rubio.
I think that elite shooting has been kind of quietly keeping the offense afloat.
It's necessary
because we don’t have SG. It’s Adelman doing the best with what he’s got even though it’s not ideal.
Right. They still need a shooting guard.
But on this roster, having Luke’s shooting out there is the best option.
Absolutely. As it stands Luke is definitely one of the best 5 players on the team.
and, on offense, complements Ricky very well.
What they really need is someone who can guard two guards and shoot like Luke. I vote for Ray Allen.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 2, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
I've wondered...
….about when it becomes a problem with Adelman that he’s starting his two worst players. He could have a number of motives for doing so but at some point it has to be on him, right? When does that happen?
It's now, in my view
Johnson has been more or less uniformly terrible all year. A couple of games that have scraped the bottom of adequacy, but really generally bad. Same thing with Milicic.
At this point, he’s got more healthy players than he can reasonably play, and any other combination would be better than having those two guys out there.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 2, 2012 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
I will second the "now"
There might be a match-up argument for Darko, but there is absolutely no reason to continue starting Wes. He is easily one of the worst players in the league, no matter what system of evaluation you use.
Wes is regressing and is playing likes he wants to crawl into a hole
Clyde Drexler was audibly laughing at him on the Houston Broadcast.
I’m perplexed as to the loyalty he’s received…Wil E Coyote hits it on the 3 heads below I think (not including 1)
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 2, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
I think the rationale of not starting Pek
is so that he won’t pick up two quick fouls. There is no rationale, that I can see, to keep starting Wes.
Yesterday was a game that we really needed someone with his size and athleticism to matchup with George and Granger. Wes and Martell are the only 2 guys we have with the size and speed to matchup. However Wes is just so bad, that his size and athleticism are irrelevant.
Yeah, for how "long and athletic" we are
we didn’t have an answer for a tall spot up shooter.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 2, 2012 10:06 PM CST up reply actions
Any theories you'd care to share?
Theory 1: Adelman is trying to showcase them to maintain/improve trade value.
Theory 2: Adelman feels Darko & Wes provide better defense than the alternatives
Theory 3: Adelman really wants a strong punch coming off the bench.
Theory 4: Adelman sees something in these guys, perhaps in practice, that has not been translating to games yet.
None of these hold much water for me, but I’d lean towards a combo of #2 and #3.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 2, 2012 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
Could be a testament as to how goofy the roster is still
It’s fairly obvious they don’t have a starting five that’s ready for it’s close-up as a group, so I can see considerations such as how to play the rotation/bench/depth being a focus in the meantime. But even there, well, who knows? Do you just let Beasley try to be teenwolf as the 6th man? Do you try to establish a pick-and-roll heavy go squad with Williams and Barea? When a coach with the pedigree of Adelman seems to struggle figuring out how to play with the misfit toys, maybe it’s a sign…
Speaking of Williams, I think he’s becoming as big a question mark as the Wes-as-a-starter one. The guy got 10 minutes yesterday in a game where the Wolves needed about 3 or 4 shots of 5-hour energy. Whether it’s for development purposes or showcasing purposes (or even if it’s TBD), the guy probably needs more minutes and a chance to discover a role.
by jianfu on Feb 2, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Eh, I don't know
What wins in the NBA? Good players coached well. That’s it. Screw everything else. Given that, who are the 9 guys that should be playing on this roster?
Probably it’s these guys: Rubio, Ridnour, Barea, Webster, Beasley, Love, Pekovic is 7. Williams is the guy you probably have to play some even though he might not be one of the 9 best. Then either AR or AT.
That’s it. 9 or maybe 10 guys. Clearly the roster needs improving—the so far mythical 3rd above average producer. But as it stands, you have to pick your group and go with it, and it should not include Johnson or Milicic. Those guys actively impede winning.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 2, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
I really don't think Beasley is that high
he has had some awful games. I tend to like steady mediocrity rather than 1/4 games being great and the others terrible. I think Love and Rubio will do better with Ellington backing up the 2 and Webster at the 3 than giving significant time to Beas/Johnson.
It’s funny you should choose the number 9 since wp48 suggests we have 9 players actively helping the team win and 6 players hurting our chances of winning. For reference in order of descending wins produced: Love, Rubio, Pek, Ridnour, Williams, Ellington, Randolph, Webster. Miller and Webster have few enough minutes to not trust their ratings but everyone else has seen over 100 minutes of court time. I personally expect that Tolliver will provide quality playing time too but right now that’s not what he’s giving us.
I think Beas probably is that high.
You know, ba-dum-bump CHING
Zing!
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
Well, I'm no Beasley fan and never have been
Frankly, I hope they trade him, because otherwise I have great fear that they will lock him into a crazy extension.
Still, at this point I’ve gotta believe he’s on the list of top 9 guys on the roster. It’s a fairly low bar. If you want to replace Beasley with Ellington on that list…well, OK. Your choice.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 2, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
extension and Beasley?
I would actually imagine if they wanted to they could lock him into a very team-friendly contract.
3/15 or so might do the trick. Who is going to want to pay him? It sounds like he wants to stay here and I would be surprised if he went for anything more than 5-6 million a year.
You could say that’s too much, but for 1 of maybe 2 guys on the roster that have the 3rd guy “ability” on the roster it might not be that bad of a deal in the short term.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
No.
He isn’t part of the solution.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 2, 2012 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
at 5 million dollars?
5 million dollars for 3 or less years is basically nothing and infinitely movable if it continues to not work out.
for starters I’d imagine if this contract happens this is Rick saying he wants Beasley on the team.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
See, this is the thing
And exactly what I said when they traded for him. It isn’t what they traded to get him, or the money in your proposed extension. It’s the commitment of playing time and energy that is the problem. He isn’t part of the solution. This is his 4th year in the league, and he’s played over 7000 minutes and he hasn’t moved forward one inch. He’s the exact same damn player he’s always been. Move on. Cut bait.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 2, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure they will offer it to Batum
and maybe should./
that doesn’t mean Batum is going to take it and our SF hole will be filled though
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
If I had a choice
of trying and missing on Batum, or signing Beasley (because they can’t do both), I’d prefer the former. It’s the more progressive attempt, and in the event an offer is matched/bettered, they would retain flexibility to do something else.
I don't disagree
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I believe this is what Kahn wants to do
sign players in the offseason now that they have a chamionship caliber point guard and a great PF. Beasley, Randolph and Tolliver are in the last year of their contracts. If they can make a few signings like Nicolas Batum, Brandon Rush and a defensive center, they can go from a .500 team to a .600 team and actually have a chance at winning in the playoffs rather just being happy to be there.
by Imyourhuckleberry on Feb 2, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
The super international team
of Pek/Love/Batum/Rubio would be pretty cool.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
yes but those guys are conceivably available now
and if you’re willing to move Williams you could potentially do better than that.
why not just save the chip though?
if you can sign Batum and still have a trading chip left you are really looking good
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
because there's no reason to totally write off this year by rolling with Wes/Beas/Darko
I’m not sure I’d go Williams for Batum straight up but at least float Ridnour + 2nd round pick for Batum.
That's also very roughly what we're paying Darko, Wes, Webster
You get enough of those “friendly” contracts and you have a bunch of bad to mediocre players who don’t help you get wins.
Unless something changes significantly between now and the end of the season...
Beasley in no way warrants a 3-year 15mil contract.
These are the types of contracts...
…that, like Darko, seem ok in real time but ultimately add up to be a gigantic waste of money once you put 2-3 of them together.
Yup
Kahn has nickeled and dimed this franchise with these types of contracts.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 2, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
McHale had a fetish for those, as well
Although at least McHale’s were largely MLE-type deals made in desperation (no draft picks much of the time) to keep a playoff team upright. To an extent, those were slightly more justified.
Kahn’s seem to be more activity for the sake of activity (particularly the Sessions-Ridnour-Barea carousel) or thinking he’s the smartest guy in the room (Darko).
At the time I was cool with it
The Darko deal isn’t a lot to pay for a starter. However, I’ve since been swayed by the idea that things like the MLE are the worst contracts in the league. Superstars and awesome rookies. These are the two most valuable things. Everything else should be kept as cheap as possible.
Unless you're the Dallas Mavericks
who had one superstar and zero awesome rookies last season.
I think productive veterans who aren’t superstars are still pretty important. The Shawn Marions and Udonis Haslems of the world can still play pretty important roles.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
by TimAllen on Feb 2, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it depends on the player
For instance:
JJ Barea at roughly $5 million per on this team? Eh…
Wes Matthews at roughly $5 million per on this team? A Marv-Albert “Yes!”
Except when you were advocating dumping Ricky
for a good wing?
by saudagg on Feb 2, 2012 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Right, I'm advocating for that
I guess I can’t say that I’m for any way of surrounding Love with two above average players. If that is Ricky + someone else, great. If it is Ricky getting swapped for D-Will (the real one) and someone else, fine. I’d really like for this pairing to be kept together but Love is the guy who needs to be surrounded and if they can find upper level production…well, I don’t care who it comes from.
(Also, I don’t think I’ve ever suggested dumping Rubio for a good wing.)
Hmm...
maybe it was just me, but your “How to Love Love” post seemed to imply the
Wolves should capitalize on whatever value Rubio and Williams had to get a legit wing in before the rest of the league caught on to them.
by saudagg on Feb 2, 2012 10:26 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
It's not that they should trade Rubio, per se
He’s not saying that Rubio should to be traded. Rubio should not be off the table either. He is a very valuable player, but if he can be traded for a net gain in production (while taking into account what he could be in the future), we would be stupid not to entertain that idea.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
I guess it was you and a few others
I know they won’t trade him. I’m just not wedded to the idea that he needs to be the guy around Love if they can get those 2 players. He seems to be one of them, great. But I’m more concerned with them just getting those two guys. I don’t know why this is such a hard point for people to grasp. I’m not advocating trading the guy. I just don’t care who they put around Love for those 2 positions as long as they’re above average and in their prime.
Out of curiousity...
…who would be on your list of guys you’d trade Ricky for?
http://www.canishoopus.com/2011/12/29/2668406/how-to-love-love
Unlike the excessively stupid Windows of Opportunity ticket sales pitch that was trotted out over the last two years, there is now an actual clock ticking on the Wolves and their hope for a better future. The clock is timed according to how long players like Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams, and Ricky Rubio can play while still being overvalued by another team long enough to be swapped for players who can produce in the here and now. Wes has probably already shown enough to remove any hope of a competent GM overvaluing his services for anything more than the Rashad McCants Memorial Toaster. Rubio and Williams can probably still draw a significant return.
To be fair, a bluff can be called. The Wolves can hope that Kevin Love will maintain his Bird rights, sign an extension, and not push for a trade while waiting out a few more terrible years until, hopefully, D-Thrill and Rubio develop into the running mates we all hope they can be. Are the hometown benefits in the new CBA enough to make this call? Is a 3% escalator enough to overcome differences in state income taxes? Will Love risk a year without an extension to test the market and push hard for a sign-and-trade? Who knows?
What we do know is that the Wolves have been gifted a player who is putting up KG-level production. He and his game look nothing like KG or his game, but the net individual production is in the same ballpark (Love is actually a bit ahead at this stage of his career). Love is doing it on is own. KG had help—help that eventually was upgraded (along with Garnet’s game) all the way to a WCF.
What should the Wolves do to upgrade Love’s help to a level commensurate with his production? This isn’t a 2-game panic. This is an assessment of what they do to move forward. Do they show some patience with Williams and Rubio? Do they wait for the off season to try and make a trade? Do they try and make a move right now?
Kevin Love is the centerpiece. He’s a KG-level centerpiece. He needs help. Rubio probably can give a chunk of it. Guys like Barea and Tolliver can throw competent backup minutes his way. Everything else is a question mark. Does any other GM with a solid asset overvalue one of these question marks enough to pull the trigger on a deal? Will one of the question marks step up in the very near future?
I think you might be on crack.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
Sure
But I’m trying to see this from Adelman’s perspective. Figuring out how to differentiate all these guys and how they fit together seems to be a struggle. I have a 5-year-old, and when she plays Uno or Skip-Bo, she has cards falling all over the place. This is what I think of.
Admittedly, the Wes issue doesn’t even fit this, though. Adelman seems like a fairly straightforward guy, so sometimes I wonder if his thinking is something along the lines of “Wes was is a recent lotto pick and we need him to build confidence and in the meantime I won’t let him catch a hint of PT come crunch time,” but it’s moved even beyond that. He really is amnesty-able at this point. And I can’t imagine Adelman doesn’t see that. That also isn’t consistent with the Derrick Williams treatment. So I have no clue.
by jianfu on Feb 2, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
the Williams thing is as baffaling
as any starter moves.
Here’s my big issue with Williams PT: So you don’t think he’s a true SF right…you mean to tell me that a guy, who when he actually gets consistent minutes, produces with a perimeter oriented game can’t give you more than Wes/Beasley for consistency?
It seems like when ever Williams plays more than 25 minutes he’s always 10 or more points and over 5 rebounds. He penetrates, gets to the free throw line and can hit three’s when he has time to get warm and actually play….that’s more than you are getting out of any SF on the roster.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Go...
here and sort by minutes.
Only 12 rookies are getting more minutes than Williams. Given that Williams is stuck behind our best player, his minutes seem pretty consistent with expectations.
that said
If we’re going to give big minutes to Beasley who is a pretty bad defender when the opposing SF is willing to run him just a little means we should be able to play Williams there with no to minimal loss in defense.
I tend to agree...
but if Adelman really truly believes that Williams has no future at the 3, he isn’t doing him any favors by using him as a stop-gap small-forward.
maybe
but if his future is a stretch-PF learning to go by faster SFs should leave him in a good place when he starts playing against PFs again. That is assuming that he can process how to play against the person guarding him rather than a one-size fits all predetermined approach that Beasley appears to have. This is one area I simply don’t know enough to feel strongly about my arguments but for the sake of our team I would rather see Williams out there than Beas.
I have a gut feeling
that they are trying to get him to a place defensively where they are confident throwing him out there consistently.
It seems like that is Adleman’s big piece and I would be the reason Beasley and Johnson still get consistent playing time because they are a head of the defensive learning curve right now for what Adleman wants.
I would be curious to know exactly what they are doing practice-wise with Williams. I jokingly suggested sending him to the D-League…but seriously, if they aren’t going to play him they better be working on stuff with him or else why the hell not?
It seems like though the players that hit the bench hard with Adleman seem to come out of it with a newer sense of purpose…so it’ll be interesting to see how the season shakes out.
I heard PA mention a bunch of Derrick Williams “back lash” and I am actually curious, are general fans pretty annoyed with him? Or is that just PA not knowing what he is talking about?>
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
PA is a moron.
And I don’t think Dwill’s 20 year old ego would be able to handle getting sent to the dleague.
(But seriously, PA is a moron. And a racist sexist pig. That show is completely unlistenable at this point.)
I can't stand to listen to him talk about basketball
it’s perhaps the most watered-down hoops talk I’ve ever heard
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
He spent years trying to figure out how we could get Mikki Moore...
PA has a great voice for radio, but he has no sports knowledge at all.
He knows very little about Football (other than how to call a game), and less about the other sports.
I used to have a laundry list...
…but I’ve been so happy since I stopped listening. Part of it is the schtick of ‘sports talk radio’ and I understand that.
It was always subtle. Like an interview with candace wiggins, or adrian peterson. I probably spoke more harshly than was warranted, it’s just that my dislike for the man has grown to an unreasonable level.
I've never picked up on any racism...
…but the creepy sex stuff isn’t hard to miss. That interview with Wiggins is still cringe worthy. So are the weekly Love Line bits. The morning show is doing their damnedest to catch up to PA on the creepy sex bit. They have a country singer come on once or twice a week to get harassed by the morning zoo. Last week they took questions about whether or not she’d “do” one of the co-hosts. Just f’ing stupid stuff: “Girls” are just the things in the way of boobies/pussy and they can’t be talked to without that being the context.
I think thats a crock...
I’ve listened for years…(not lately though) and I dont hear that at all.
Saying he’s a racist is a pretty big thing that you should not do lightly.
"But this one goes to eleven..."
Yeah, I'm gonna have to back this up, on balance.
PA is a radio guy, and even the dopey sexy talk is pretty benign as that sort of thing goes. Paul Allen is nowhere near touching the current morning show’s obnoxiousness (and utter, complete, depressing lack of originality) on that score.
I’ve never noticed the racism angle at all. Your tastes may vary, all our tastes may change over time – Pat Reusse has sort of grown on me, bizarre wheeze-cackles and all, at 1500 – but I don’t think we need to go there, not on PA. Certainly not as a throwaway line to just say we don’t like his show.
(In general the whole “Love Covenant” thing works for me, as a show frame. )
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I listened for many years, generally all day.
And I don’t know how to describe exactly what I mean. It wasn’t what he said most the time, it was the way he talked to different people. Once I started hearing it, it was all I heard. Might mean that I’m crazy, but I know a couple other people who have noted the same.
they aren't consistent minutes though
it’s 28 minutes one night and 6 the next.
That is honestly not easy to do for even veteran’s to find a flow and a role let a lone rookies.
especially when, like I said, it appears like when he gets run he does-at least offensively- things pretty much in line with what we need a SF to do on this team and does it fairly well.
Again my argument is more, how much worse could Williams be than Wes/Beasley have been? Based on his production I would argue he would actually be better….so why not just bite the proverbial rookie bullet and play the guy there and see what happens….at a minimum you will at least be able to better sell him as a trade asset
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I would rather see Williams...
at the 3 than Wes. No question. Beasley is a coach’s call kind of case, but I would probably rather see Williams out there than him. That said.. if Williams isn’t a 3, we aren’t helping him by training him as one.
You know my stance
I think the guy can score at a high level in the NBA.
Is he a real 3? No. But it would similarly be a disservice to him as a player to pigeon hole him as a true 4 as well. He’s not a consistent post presence and while he does rebound well it really looks like he is more comfortable with perimeter basketball both offensively and defensively.
It presents some challenges, sure and maybe his ultimate down-fall is whether the positivity (scoring the basketball) well ever out weight the challenges.
He’s a uniquely skilled player, but he can score the ball, get to the line and hit three pointers: we need all of those skills. If we do end up signing Nic Batum, fine. He’s a quality player and can do many things we need as well, but I think you try and make it work with Williams and Love unless a better option presents itself. Get a tough defensive 2 (Malcolm Lee maybe, we’ll see soon) and an anchor 5 (Hibbert) and roll with it. It’s an option.
I’d hate to move a guy who always seems to score the basketball though. Scoring consistently and efficiently is not easy to find. Good defensive players generally are easier and cheaper
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Face up player?
Did D-Will ever play with his back to the basket in college? My only exposure to him pre-wolfies was the NCAA tourney when he was torching people off the dribble and draining three balls.
He doesn’t seem comfortable in the post, nor does he seem like he has had a large amount of time being taught footwork (like most power forwards have). He seems at ease on the wing, being able to see the rim.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong here…
I don't see how anyone could disagree with you
the guy plays on the wing.
SnP once told me in regards to the draft that he only grades players as: lead guards, wings, and post players cause that is all there is anymore (do I have that right?)
if that’s the case there is no chance Williams is a post player. if actually position exists his actual position is probably a 3/4 tweener….but if it’s just “is he a wing or a post” the guy is a wing.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I think in the NBA
your position is largely about who you can guard. I think Adelman feels DWill has enough trouble understanding his defensive assignments at the 4 without trying to teach him the 3 as well. And DWill doesn’t seem especially quick.
The SF position is really a strange beast. Crash the boards with the bigs, shoot 3s and run around picks like the smalls. Defending the 3 is likely equally varied.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 2, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
which is why we should just embrace DWill for what he is
he’s gonna have some mismatches against three’s both good and bad, but at least you can get he and Love on the floor together
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Yes
This is where I was heading as well. I don’t think we have seen enough from him to draw any conclusions, so best to give him some burn.
If we are willing and continuing to put faith in Wesley “Won’t Develop” Johnson, we should put the equal amount of faith in our #2 pick.
What a perfect image.
I have a 5-year-old, and when she plays Uno or Skip-Bo, she has cards falling all over the place. This is what I think of.
Last night Anthony Randolph was inactive. His card fell out of the hand for a second, there.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Theories on playing time
Here’s what Kahn said:
“We have to let the team play for the next four to six weeks. Then Rick (Adelman) and I will sit down and talk about the things we see going on. Do we do something at the trade deadline or do we wait until the end of the year? The more likely scenario is that we wait until the end of the year.”
Adelman’s doing his part. It should be painfully obvious after the ‘patient’ period is over that we have no starting wings, that Wes is awful, and that Darko is utterly unreliable. I mean, the rest of us knew this, but apparently Kahn & his players get one more chance to convince under a competent coach?
Do you have any insight
on whether Kahn is getting another contract? I mean… he can’t be, can he?
Get Pritchard!
It's funny
but it’s easy to forget Pritchard is still out there. But Taylor doesn’t think he plays nice.
Dunno
Something weird is happening over there but I have no clue what it is.
I will 100% guarantee it that Pritchard doesn’t come here. The Tom Penn bit soured Papa Glen on Penn and Pritch (i.e. the used the Wolves for a raise in Portland).
Pritchard was involved in that?
I know Penn used us, but what did Pritchard have to do with it?
I’m guessing Dennis Lindsay is out too, after turning us down the first time.
One would think that the job would have some appeal
No awful contracts. Love and Rubio locked up for at least the next three seasons. Some nice flexibility and cap space. Unless working for Taylor is just that bad, I’d think this would one of the more coveted openings in the NBA if Kahn is let go.
Of course, rumor has it that Kupcheck is going to be gone soon in L.A., so that would probably be #1 on the GM wish list.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
Why Kupcheck?
outside of drafting Bynum wouldn’t you classify most of his run in LA as “falling into his lap?”
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Not what I meant
I just mean that if the GM jobs at the Wolves and Lakers were open at the same time, I would imagine that most candidates would list the Lakers as their #1 choice.
Follow me on Twitter @timallenonline
gotcha
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Depends on what the issue was.
Kahn was hired partly because he accepted keeping all the existing front office contracts on, albeit in different roles. That same set of contracts isn’t in place today.
Any decision depends on Glen Taylor realizing that, even if you might be okay with Kahn today, GMs are like players and coaches: The guy who’s good for one situation isn’t necessarily good for another. Maybe Kahn is the guy you wanted to turn the thing over, but maybe he’s not the guy to transform a young team into a real contender. We never get to considering Lindsey or whoever else unless Glen’s had that realization. Given his record of “loyalty” to a fault and passivity at the reins, I’m not real hopeful about that.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I do think...
….that the recent rash of Kahn articles can be traced directly to a certain someone wanting a contract extension and him sending little birdies all over the place.
These articles don’t get written out of nowhere.
something weird is happening at TC?
why u say that?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_13541239
They hired the Godfather of NBA advanced stats.
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 2, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't know they still had Oliver
I remember when they first hired him; I also think he used to be unsure how much he was listened to (I think Kiki maybe hired him initially). But that was a while ago, and they’ve had some exec turnover since then. He must be getting listened to at this point.
I want his job.
C’mon, David Kahn — pay me enough to feed my family (preferably on a Sprewell level) and I’ll crunch some numbers for you!
Isn't Pritchard the other side of the same Kahn?
a perceived competent jackass.
I know one thing, regardless of the health issues, i sure wouldn’t want Oden over Durant in my portfolio.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 3, 2012 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
I don't blame him for Durant
Of course I don’t know what the doctors were saying about Oden, but in terms of production, Oden was a monster.
Guys that big and that skilled don’t come along all that often (Andre Drummund could go #1 over Davis for this simple reason) and if they have anything that approaches awesome production…well, humans that big and that skilled are few and far in between.
Oden put up a 12.7 block rate, killed the boards (14.7/23.9 oreb%/dreb%), got to the line (63.8 ft/fg), and wasn’t a turnover machine (16 to%). He also posted a TS% of 62.6. (All per Kenpom.)
What should have been something of a red flag in his production was that he played in less than 60% of his team’s minutes. (I’ve actually rolled this into my efficiency score by using % min with % poss to determine workload.)
Durant was also a monster. He handled the ball a TON, ending 31.6% of Texas possessions while being on the court nearly 90% of the time. During that time he gave you nearly 60% TS, a 8.5% combined block/stl%, and he rebounded like hell for his position. His net numbers were insane. Oden had him by a bit on the efficiency scale.
Regardless of the health issues, it was a close call. With the health issues, it probably should have been a clear cut decision. Throwing aside the health stuff, I don’t blame the guy for taking a crack at the rarest of all NBA commodities: the uber-talented big with actual (and outstanding) college production.
by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 3, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
no question a tough call
however I liken it to missing a free throw to win the game kinda move.
game still tied, and he eventually lost in OT.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 3, 2012 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
After reading this, I went into one of my whimsical "Hey, maybe we should take a flier on Greg Oden next season!" thought processes
Soon after doing so, I found out that he had another arthroscopic knee surgery just a few days ago. Poor guy. I’d like to see him succeed, regardless of whether he’s on our team or that of a rival. He could be a joy to watch if his paper-mache-excuses-for-joints hold up.
On a related note: Whether we look at Oden next year or not, there are quite a few good free agent big men and wings for us to go after. Even if many of them are restricted, we’d be stupid not to make trades and sign offer sheets this coming offseason. There is no reason for us to come away without a better wing and/or big man before next season.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
I think it's insane and will (has) cost them a playoff spot.
But whatevs. As long as I can boo and rant I’m happy.
by fanslaststand on Feb 2, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Um...
Probably 2 years for me. The guy’s got 955 NBA wins and is coaching “the Island of Misfit Toys” with basically no training camp/practices. Comparatively, I’m a guy that sits on his couch and watches the games. I’m pretty confident he’s got some decent reasons.
"Beasley was terrible at both ends"
Is this your default position from last year, or did you actually notice anything terrible about his defense? (To EiM, as this comment will probably appear pretty far down)
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
not EiM
but Beasley gets lost anytime his man runs through any type of traffic, much less a pick set for him.
"runs through any type of traffic"
Dribbling or cutting? If he’s dribbling into traffic, I suppose Mike’s doing a good job of steering him to a bad spot.
And you think he’s doing a poor job of defending the dribbler on ball screens… has this happened a lot?
I’m happy to agree that he was awful on defense for much of last year. One part lazy and another lost. This year, I haven’t noticed it, really. The only really bad defensive game he had was against S-Jack and Milwaukee, which ended in frustration fouls and a benching.
“Bad defender” is possibly the most-difficult label to shed, so I think it’s important to take note when improvement actually happens. It’s happened with Love over the last two years, and it’s happened, so far, this year with Beasley. There was nothing “terrible” about his defense in last night’s game. If you’re seeing terrible defense from him, it’s probably what you’re hoping for. As an example of a terrible defensive play from a different, less-criticized player, Kevin Love doubled teamed A.J. Price 20-feet from the basket, leaving his All-Star opponent David West open for an easy jumper.
The team as a whole is playing better defense, and each guy makes some mistakes, inevitably.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
by Andy G on Feb 2, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
agreed about the team bit but cutting is what I'm mostly referring to
Granger repeatedly moved then found himself open at the 3 point line for an easy look. It’s possible Beasley was supposed to double but no one came out and tried to run Granger off the line which is bad for the whole team.
I think individual players' defense is almost impossible to comment on.
Too many variables, too many things impossible to notice. And also, it’s seemed to me that scheme/coaching is far more important to a defense than the defensive skill of an individual player.
This is why I don’t take defense much into account when evaluating any player. Not that it isn’t important, but because like you say, reputation plays way too big a factor. Pretty much every good offensive player in the league has people saying about them, “Yeah, but they can’t play defense!”
Well put.
Reputation is huge and it’s hard to change. Coaching staffs would best understand individual defense as they import the schemes and goals and would understand who was supposed to do what and when. It’s a lot easier for us fans to watch offense and second-guess or applaud certain decisions and execution.
One type of defense that is easily-observed is one-on-one defense. Al Jefferson was pretty bad at this, particularly after his injury. Love can’t shut down scorers as an individual the way that certain longer players (Aldridge, Garnett) have been able to, but he holds position well and puts out enough effort to do a solid job. On the wing, McCants was very bad at defending one-on-one. Foye was better, but still sub-par. Mike Miller was pretty bad. Corey Brewer was pretty good. Martell Webster might be better than Brewer. Ellington, against Kevin Martin, looked pretty rotten. Beasley was pretty bad at this last year, and has seemed at least adequate, this year. He’s defended the best players in the world (LBJ, Durant, Kobe) and hasn’t been embarrased a single time (S-Jack and those fouls notwithstanding).
The rotations that follow a double team or a help situation are very much a team dynamic. With Rambis: Bad. With Adelman: Good (so far). Mike fell right in line with the rest with each respective situation.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
It struck me last night that he was often in the wrong place and especially had trouble
with a particularly hot Granger. It is not my “default position” from last year. I don’t really like the implication. As I said, nobody played well last night.
In truth, though, I admit that my sense of Beasley has not changed much since they acquired him. You and I have been over this several times. I never thought he was going to be part of the solution, and I still don’t. That’s primarily because he appears to be more or less the same player he’s been since he got here. I complained last year that he really hasn’t moved forward one inch since he got into the league, and I said much the same earlier today. I still think it’s true.
I've changed my sig. The Wolves are now like a reasonably decent meal.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 2, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
I just think "terrible" is kind of a strong word.
Granger was pretty awesome last night, and while certain defenders may have contained him better, it wasn’t really Beasley’s overt mistakes that led to his hot second half. Contrast this with Ellington versus Martin, recently, when he was getting run all over like a chicken with his head cut off. One player was making defensive mistakes that allowed a good player to go off; the other was simply (maybe) not being proactive enough in sticking to a hot shooter.
His offense is what it is.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
I didn't see the Love-Granger exchange
But I remember thinking similar thoughts when Bynum floored Beasley last year.
Maybe Kahn, at least on some level, is drawn to easy-going and/or flakey personalities. They haven’t really added much in the way of toughness/competitive-streak with the likes of Flynn, Wes, Darko, Beasley, Randolph, Luke…Rubio’s competitive, but not necessarily going to be an “oh yeah?/eff-you” type of guy (at least not yet). Maybe Derrick Williams has a bit of a streak in him, but it’s too early to tell.
Speaking of Rubio (and this has nothing to do with anything), I was checking out some Jonas V. on YouTube and came across this where his team beats Rubio’s, and Rubio has a Novak Djokovic moment with his neon-salmon jersey at 6:07…
That play was a fluke
It looked like Love was just trying to stop a fast break. It was that kind of game last night. The Wolves couldn’t get into transition because the Pacers take such great care of the basketball. Lance Stephenson is awful and turned the ball over 3 times in just 15 minutes. The rest of Pacers only turned it over 9 times in the other 225 minutes played.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
From the right angles
you could see that JimPete was right and Love really was coming down off balance (but it was also obvious that once his arm hit Granger’s shoulder, he used it to pull down on Granger to end the play).
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
It looked like a classic frustration foul
Love was getting absolutely beat up every time down the floor, Indy was setting a ton of moving screens and playing really chippy, and Love just got pissed and gave away a foul. No big deal, it showed some edge. I like that. I also liked Martell and Beasley jumping in.
I don’t know if Martell is the answer on the wing, but I really like him. He obviously loves the game and is extremely competitive. When I’ve been to games where he was injured he was always locked in, and participated in the huddle and stuff.
I've got a lot of hope for Martel
He regressed a little under Rambis but in 10-11 he was basically an average SF. I love how he cuts and he shoots the 3 ball as well as I think Johnson should. He hustles on D and I think should be our starting SF (not SG though he’s our best option there too).
Right now Martel looks a bit slow to defend the SG spot to me
Might be just rust & getting back in shape. But he did not look capable of staying in front of an aging Kobe vs. the Lakers. And I’ve seen him getting burnt by some other twos too. Given his limited dribbing ability, I can see where he is pegged as a SF even though he is more of a SG by size.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 2, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
yeah Martin also went by him at willl
I’m not sure if that’s a knock on him or just pointing out that those two are very good SGs and we don’t have a Corey Brewer/Tony Allen type on our team. Also 6’7" sans the mohawk isn’t terrible for a SF.
Thus he's best suited to play SF
I agree that while he gets up in people’s grill and plays D with some intensity, he doesn’t move his feet quick enough to stay with a lot of 2’s. That being said, I’d probably rather him start at 2 than Ridnour. We just have nothing at the 2. You know it’s bad when all our hopes rest upon the shoulders of a 2nd round rookie (but he is from UCLA!!!).
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 2, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
we did trade for him
to start at 3
maybe it’s time 2 years later we see what happens
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Was reading at Indy Cornrows
and they’ve been calling out Love all morning for being a punk and rolling over. I’d like to say we’d return the favor to Granger when we play again but I’m guessing he’ll be injured by then.
No
Kahn usually likes those “good intangibles” guys. Which is OK for 80% of the team. You need 12 nice guys and 3 enforcers. Good intangibles guys usually have lower bust potential (except Johson, Wes), are usually more coachable and get into trouble less. If you have a hard-working guy with an attitude whom the coaching staff can break, then you have a real diamond. But 9 out of 10 times, the guy will strangle his teammate or do something equally crazy.
Darko is a bad example. Darko is a competitor who is also a shitty worker and just doesn’t care if he is not playing against an all-star. When he is playing against a tougher team, LAC, LAL, OKC, etc., he turns it on and he is aggressive. But otherwise, he just doesn’t care. He is a less crazy DMC, and sadly he has zero to epsilon hope.
Don't forget Flynn, Johnny
Kahn really seems to just pick the wrong guy unless it’s totally obvious (Rubio).
There was a nice shout out to Canis on the audio broadcast by the way
and to Tim.
The high school coach segment is…awkward, but otherwise they’re a treat to listen to.
Yes, while I appreciate what high school coaches do
I don’t see how it has a place on the broadcast. 95% of the listeners do not want to hear about a team that have never seen and will never see. They want to find out why the Wolves are suddenly down 5 points.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 2, 2012 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, the Pacers were physical
but we out-rebounded them and even got to the line for more FTAs. I think we held up pretty well in that regard. The bottom line is that they made a much higher % of shots than we did. Hansborough is really the only guy out there that plays like a spaz. May be West is a bit of a goon too. But otherwise the Pacers have some tough, clean defenders. Collison puts great pressure on the ball and Hibbert was a real presence in the middle (speaking of Hibbert, that guy has come a loooooong ways since his days at Georgetown. He’s worked his ass off to get this good).
Yes, I think when Love talks about disliking the Pacers
I think he is mostly referring to Tyler H. and West. Those guys were hammering him. I was a little afraid for Love’s safety to be honest when Tyler was spazzing around out there. That wild punch to try to dislodge the ball after Love had rebounded it could have met face. He is going to end up hurting someone.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 2, 2012 9:06 AM CST up reply actions
Good point
I imagine I’d want to punch Psycho T if I were playing him, and West got a technical on a shove on Love very early…
I happened to be sitting right behind the hoop
when Love pulled off one of the weirdest, funniest, acting jobs I’ve ever seen, with a whistle on Tyler. Love got a board and cuffed the ball with his left hand, down by his hip. With the ball secured, he whipped up his right arm in the air and flailed like he got fouled.
Two shots.
Later in the game, Hansbrough was hammered down on his left arm as he went up for a layup. He might have even made it with his right hand, but no call.
Hansbrough was not getting anything from the refs, except bullshit calls against him. If I were him, I would have been really frustrated.
www.punchdrunkwolves.com
@PDWolves
Collison was outstanding
Rubio just could not stay with him. When is knocking down shots and being the pest that he is on defense, Indy is a tough beat.
You mean the guy taken 15 spots behind Flynn in the draft
who could have foreseen that?
"15 draft spots behind Flynn"
… isn’t quite as damning as “7 point guards after Flynn.”
This Game was one long
Teachable Moment
thats a real good team over there. I really like the way Adelman tried to coach his way out of it… to no avail.
Ricky’s batteries were low and the pattern with him is that he has struggled with aggressive teams on the perimeter (see Utah). I have zero doubt he’s tough enough to figure it out.
In a future world I can’t help but think that this is the exact kind of game where a guy like Derrick Williams rises to the occasion.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
Agreed.
I liked some of our guys’ comments after the game (in Pioneer Press article this morning). They know they played like shit, with no energy, and got outworked. I think they’ll bounce back well.
Ricky didn’t seem to have his usual spark on the defensive end. Seems to have happened in a couple games lately. So I’m really glad Barea is back to give him a little break. Minutes in the low 30s seems better than the high 30s. But JJ has to not suck like he did last night.
ricky seems to really run into trouble
when he’s faced with a really physical player on the other team. it drains him and it seems to take away his magical unicorn sparkle. hopefully he figures it out—i think he will.
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
Offensively I believe they had George on him, correct?
This is the tradeoff of starting Luke at SG. The other team can put their bigger SG on Rubio and then on the other end Ridnour is guarding the bigger SG. It’s like the worst of both worlds. I think Adelman likes having to guards that can handle the ball, but man, I’m just not sure it’s worth it with these horrible matchup problems it creates.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 2, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Good point about...
Ridnour allowing defensive 2s to stick Rubio. I hadn’t thought of that before, but it probably has pretty significant implications. Rubio clearly doesn’t do as well against physical and long defenders.
I'm glad I read this
Because I was about to launch into a long, poorly written diatribe to make this exact point. The problems with covering up the gaping hole at SG with Ridnour/Barea extend beyond those individual matchups. They help kill the offense when the opposing team has a long, athletic 2 who can take Rubio out of his game. The entire offense is predicated on Ricky doing his thing, and when the other team has to try to negate that by switching off LeBron or someone onto him, that’s fine, because of a mismatch elsewhere on the court. But when the team only has to cover our shoot happy PG with their PG, advantage bad guys. We need a SG who can deliver for this team.
by dropstep on Feb 2, 2012 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly what I mean when I say the effects aren't always, or even primarily, direct.
George is a hell of a defender, though, for his tenure in the league. The one play where Ricky absolutely burned him with a little dribble move, went up for the shot, and got blocked from behind by George? Yow. Wish we had more of that around.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I giggled when that happened.
And then I felt like a traitor for laughing at the Unicorn’s misfortune. A hell of a play by George.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
We should run more plays for Ridnour.
He scores very efficiently. I have seen us run baseline screens for Ellington allowing him to curl to the elbow and shoot. We should run this play for Luke.
How about us trying to have Ridnour post up Collison. If not for the bad post feed it would have been great to see Luke post up.
We need to try and get him more looks in the corner
he shoots that corner 3 extremely well and I saw Love feed him there once last night. It’s a shot I thought Adelman’s motion offense was decent at creating so I’m not sure if it’s our execution,doing things differently with Rubio or not having bigs pass well enough from the high post but most corner 3s that I remember have been jacked up by Johnson… I still think that we need to play our best players and that means putting Luke at the 2 more often and possibly switching Rubio to defend the SG.
honestly
i’ve been really really unimpressed with barea, even though we’ve only seen him in 8 (or so) games this year. maybe he’s a player whose value got inflated by being surrounded by superior talent on a championship team?
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
He is not a Point Guard
He is a really small 2. He could be a nice spark plug off the bench but it would be a mistake to trade Luke and think JJ would be a decent backup Point Guard.
He has never been a great player....
I was happy with him because he isn’t a bad player, but there really isn’t much more there.
You're probably right...
But my eyeball test tells me he’s pretty good. Not last night, of course. I’d also like to see him with Love on the floor. Ricky doesn’t need Love as much as Barea does. He has so much of it from us.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
He does things though that others on our squad can't do
He can get in the paint and force a defense to collapse. That gives our bigs a chance for easy O-boards when Barea throws up one of those crazy floaters and it opens things up on the outside. I agree that he’s no James Harden or Manu coming off the bench, but he can absolutely be a disruptor out there and it opens things up for other players.
by Rascal Flatts on Feb 2, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
There is no excuse for his having the highest usage rate on the wolves this season
And it’s not even close. It’s as if you took every reason why some folks argued that Monta Ellis would be a bad fit on this team, wrapped them in a ball, lopped off half a foot, and an insane amount of basketball talent, and threw it out on the court.
I like that he keeps the ball moving, which kind of mimics the chaos that Rubio uses to shake up the passing lanes, but that’s it. I don’t see what he provides aside from an ill-fitting disguise over the ugly truth that the team does not have a reliable SG.
No offense
But you guys are jumping to huge conclusions with him. Give him some time please. Before you know he will be wetting threes and you will all forget this nonsense.
I will not forget that he is 5'9"
And when he is sharing the court with Rubio he allows the opposing team to comfortably throw large, physical, athletic SGs at Ricky to limit his effectiveness, thereby short-circuiting our entire offense. If he’s a back up PG, great, we have two of those who are screwing us up by playing SG, and by playing like SGs rather than playmaking like Ricky.
Those are subjective observations, but which seem pretty hard to argue against to me. The usage rate is pure objectivity. It has nothing to do with whether his 3 pt shots are falling or not. There are only 10 regular roation players in the league right now with a higher usage, according to Hollinger stats. They are your MVP candidates, Kyrie Irving, and Monta Ellis. He’s tied with notorious gunner Jamal Crawford. It is how he’s choosing to play; it’s on him.
By cash I hope you mean gold
or some other Depression-proof lucre.
Laugh all you like but you don’t have to be a RonPaulista to think that the world economy is phonier than David Kahn’s smile.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
by TMiss on Feb 2, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Its actually not
It’s not magic that your $20 can buy you goods and services up your block.
I understand where you're coming from on the economy
…but it is useful to remember that Rome wasn’t destroyed in a day.
But Serbia's already been bombed to hell and back
so it’s not hard to see where Darko’s coming from.
Ah yes, that $20 that will let me fill my gas tank a third of the way full — that same $20 that would have bought me 6 [SIX] cartons of Camels back when I was in college (the first time). Lest you think I’m comparing apples with oranges, back in the day I could fill my car with gas at least three times for $20. And no, inflation doesn’t account for that: price fixing/gouging has.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
by TMiss on Feb 2, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I keep thinking back to the salad days of 2000,
when gas cost about $1.30 a gallon and I thought it was outrageous because just five years earlier it was 87 cents.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
A Serbian friend of mine asked why the US wins wars without firing any shots
Since he grew up in war torn Serbia once he got to the US he was astonished at US power.
I told him the US pays its bills on time, every time. Ergo, collectors aren’t knocking on our door so we’re not having to shoot them to defer payment.
He wouldn’t put his money in US banks either.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
Huh?
I’m sure there was more to that conversation than that, but the whole deal on the US kicking Serbian ass wasn’t about our not firing any shots (we rained bombs on them like it was primetime Vietnam), but somehow we straightened out that mess without losing any American lives.
Unlike Afghanistan (the graveyard of empires) and Iraq (where planet earth’s sphincter is located).
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
So does Iraq reflexively tighten up
whenever Wes shoots a 3?
Or was that a Darko left hook…
Really Missed AR-15's Energy last night
(can’t believe i just typed that)
and do I hear a faint whisper …whats that?
MalcolmLeeeeeeee Malcolm Leeeeee Malcolm Leeeeeeee
he’ll get every opportunity to prove himself, thats for sure.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 2, 2012 10:51 AM CST reply actions
when does Lee come back
before I get too bandwagon heavy on “trade a protected first and Brad Miller or Ellington for Mayo” I would like to see the guy play
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
D League assignment soon
then back up…
An experienced best case DWill and the proverbial best case Malcolm Lee are just the kind of players we need to beat a team like Indy….and OKC….and Memphis….and Utah….and Portland, ya know, the new school West.
http://loisaidabbclub.tumblr.com/
Twitter: @loisaidabbclub
by beatsandpeasnyc on Feb 2, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
We should send Williams to DLeague
just to play.
Have him play 45 minutes a night and burn some cals
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
One more example. Farm system, farm system.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
what's your point?
is this Wolves specific, or NBA-wide farm system comment?
I agree with both actually and think it’s an interesting talker that should be addressed.
especially when we have a 20 year old guy that we can’t find clock for. But I think a farm system would be cool in the NBA
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
League-wide, okay, but why are we not the team to seize this player development advantage?
Guess which teams do invest in their farm systems? (San Antonio. Los Angeles Lakers.)
Just accept different assumptions about how to get young players up to speed, use the developmental league to develop players, and I think you have at least a small edge. Us first, please. We’re supposed to have a GM who used to own D-league teams, even.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
wouldn't it be awesome
if the Wolves owned like the St. Petersburg NightHawks and we had a core of
Derrick Williams/Wes Johns/Malcolm Lee and we could follow them as they play the Jan Vessely/Chris Singleton lead Vancouver Thunder?
League-wide D League would own serious business.
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
One team is going to do this at some point,
and they’ll find something special, and then it’ll crack open. People scoffed at international players too, until Drazen Petrovic and Dirk. (And Sarunas Marciulionis, etc.)
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I'm 100 percent for
HS Draft admittance and and growing D-League.
you can sign players drafted under 20 to like 6 year deals etc. be a good idea.
Hope the Wolves look into D-league more, minor leagues is the way to go
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
The D League will be much more attractive
after the NCAA is sued into oblivion and colleges give up sports rather than tainting themselves by actually paying the kids they’re exploiting.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Of course
we’ll have to violently overthrow the entire establishment before that can happen, but as God is my witness we will set college athletes free!
(OK, riffing off MLK right after calling for violent revolution is probably in bad taste, but so is the NCAA)
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
This would be cool.
The college mandate is BS.
well they've said they want a draft pick for Mayo
so I don’t see why they wouldn’t do it?
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
Is someone going to give them a lotto pick for Mayo?
we also own their 2013 pick….which is what I would assume would be traded
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I completely disagree with your assessment
Love did not back down, he simply showed that he is far superior to the child like temperament of Danny Granger. He shoved that little bi%& out the way, and then moseyed away wondering why Granger was so upset. Being the cerebral player that Love is, he knew not to react or he would have gotten a technical or even tossed from the game. While I am not going to go as far and call us “SOFT” because I don’t think we’re soft at all, the Pacers were a more dominating physical team, and were also extremely HOT. So the combination of both out matched the Wolves. Not to mention we still don’t have an identity (EXEMPT: KEVIN LOVE) our only player who seems to leave it on the court each and every night covered in blood, sweat, and dust. Everyone else seems to be going through the motions, except for maybe Rick Rubes. Beasley is inconsistent right now and off an injury. The same can be said about Barea, and Webster. Why Randalph does not see more minutes is completely beyond me. Anyways, I’m not gonna panic as I actually think we will have a 5 game win streak at some point in the season. All cylinders need to click for that to happen.
Everyone else disagrees with you
Granger behaved like a competitor, while Love watched Granger compete. Nothing against your team (i enjoy watching rubio) but you just got out emotioned this game, we wanted to win more.
Best of luck to your team.
I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. It's impossible to put down.// I wondered why the baseball was getting bigger, Then it hit me// A hole has been found in the nudist camp wall. The police are looking into it.
Congratulations on "your" hustle.
It’s unfortunate the Timberwolves and I were just too soft.
by dropstep on Feb 2, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Just to be clear
At least the last 5 points where in garbage time. I’m sure a few of those boards were too.
(Love had 9 boards in the first quarter.)
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I've always thought
that feral was point being. Now I know.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
This taught me something, though,
and I thank you for it. I just realized that the only time I bother correcting someone’s grammar is when that someone is being nasty (or snarky, or condescending, etc.) toward a poster I like. Now I know what to look out for and my compulsion will be more manageable. Thank you.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Plus I insulted Pek
Had it coming to me. ;-)
If only his arms were 4-6 inches longer we’d have something. Can we put titanium extensions in there?
You do not insult Pek.
Hehe.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Your... Guess if I'm going to get snarky, I should spell...
My point was it wasn’t his best night. High standards he’s set for himself.
I guess my point was that if Love had been passive while Granger was being aggressive,
the first quarter wouldn’t have looked like it did at all. (Granger was 2-6 from the floor then. It was the ugliest game, at that point.)
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Granger didn't expose softness
he exposed the fact that we cannot defend wing players(or centers) who are determined to score. This doesn’t come as a surprise to those of us who have been watching all year. Wes Johnson is our 2nd best defender, but he usually doesn’t get to play towards the end of the game when the Wolves are down because his offense isn’t good, at least not yet. Beasley and Ridnour cannot get stops regularly, so it is difficult to catch up even if they are hitting their shots.
by Imyourhuckleberry on Feb 2, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
My first thought was "Love, don't get tossed!"
…with these rogue refs, you never know what it’s going to take to get an ejection or suspension. I thought he was smart to steer clear of the fracas..
Yeah
I don’t understand how people are calling him soft after that. Everyone knows Love would curb stomp the teeth out of Grangers dome if they were to fight. He does not need to be bothered by that fly. IMO
by RickyRubio on Feb 2, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
MJ's Bulls went through the same "rite of passage"
The first couple of years the Bulls emerged to become a playoff team, they had to face the Lambeer, Rodman, Isiah, Dumars Pistons. The Bulls got punched in the face (not literally) in the playoff match-up in two successive years.
Finally, the third time through, the Bulls matched the physicality and advanced to the next round.
This is a rite of passage for any emerging team. The Wolves got a dose last night. With they match the physicality? Time will tell.
But they can’t meet the physicality with technical fouls or finesse. Pek will have to make the Pacers look like the bottom end of his tattoo.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
We still need our Jordan though...
by Child soldier Frank Jaeger on Feb 2, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Not going to happen.
we need to win more like the Pistons(Billups’ Pistons), getting good point guard play and several guys producing consistently. We should find a Ben Wallace type though.
by Imyourhuckleberry on Feb 2, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Pek sucks at D
We need a power, defensive center who’s a muscle guy to play next to Love.
Asik
It will cost you though.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
Pek
Has lobster arms and cannot defend. He looks like Kevin Loves “Sloth from Goonies” older brother that they hid in the basement of embarrassment. Anyone else feel me ?
The "Pek can't defend" meme needs to die.
His DRtg is down to 103 (from 111 last year). It’s not all-star defense, but it’s not terrible.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
Advice for Rick Adelman from someone who knows nothing about basketball...
Derrick Williams, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph, A point guard not named Rubio, and a first round draft pick.
Some combination of the above aforementioned players need to be packaged and dealt for someone else who has the potential to make an all star game or two before his or her career ends.
Martell Webster needs to start and play close to 30 minutes. He is so much better than Wes right now.
Tell Luke Ridnour that he’s great at shooting. Tell Luke Ridnour that Ricky sucks at shooting. Tell Luke Ridnour that he’s not great with the ball in his hands. Tell Luke Ridnour that Ricky is great with the ball in his hands. Tell Luke that he needs to get that.
In fact, why is Wayne Ellington not getting more minutes at the 2?
by Child soldier Frank Jaeger on Feb 2, 2012 12:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
The Wolves (err...Muskies)
Were intimidated by Lance Stephenson’s audacious banana shoes.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
I did love those. Nice clogs you got there, Lance.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
He had bananas for hands too
He couldn’t hold onto the basketball.
I can predict the future using Norm Van Lier's crystal balls.
"Sam has a tendency to denigrate reports coming from any reporter who didn’t also cover the day Naismith first put up the peach baskets." - snley
Was that...
a racist comment? or reference to banana sandwich?
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Wow super racist
saying he likes to eat bananas?
Someone took some troll pills this morning.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
You can get them at Costco
in banana flavors now, right next to the gallon-sized containers of wasabi almonds.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Wow Super Racist
Sounds like the mistranslated title of a Chinese superhero movie starring Mel Gibson.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
That's what I figured...
..those shoes were BRIGHT.
These are the growing pains
Kahn was right about the extremist tendency (myself included). One day we’re the hottest young team in the league and the next day we suck ass.
These are the growing pains. We are still one defensive center and good wing away from being a genuinely good team. And we still have to let our pups grow for a while. They have to be toughened in battle. Roughed up a little. And come through it. There are no ways to escape this.
We haven’t even reached the second half of the year where the good teams really play hard. It’s going to take a while.
Extreme? Yes. Justified? Yes.
It’s challenging to watch the team every game and not be excited or frustrated. What Kahn doesn’t grasp is the frustration isn’t in that these guys on the roster haven’t panned out, its that we all had concerns they would ever pan out, so why draft them in the first place?
I agree there are growing pains to go through. We all are probably a lot better at our jobs now than when we first started, so we should all relax and let some people come into their own. The insistence by the front office that Wes isn’t even considered in a trade displays a level of stubborness that will burn them.
The reason we all freak out (good and bad) is because we care and we can’t influence this. Kahn gets to walk away from this with no emotional attachment if this fails. We don’t.
actually he's wrong
by and large, the consensus around here has been remarkably broad and consistent, win or lose, for quite a while. Love and Ricky = awesome. We need a third real, live NBA starter on the wing. Pek = keeper. Adelman = awesome. David Kahn’s guys suck.
We’re happy about our awesome parts when we get a win, and depressed about our sucky parts when we lose. This is somehow abnormal?
David Kahn is just antagonistic because he as the mouthpiece of the franchise, and everything he’s done outside of Rubio and getting out of the way of the Adelmans, is considered part of the suck.
At what point do we distinguish between tough and fake-tough?
Danny Granger isn’t tough. Anyone who flops on one play and then tries to start a fight on a fucking touch foul is a poseur. Also, I’d be more inclined to think that the refs were letting them play if the Pacers didn’t have several touch fouls go their way (including the asinine call on whoever was guarding Granger in the 4th when the ball went out of bounds). Now, the Wolves aren’t what I’d call tough, but the Pacers are puffed-out-chest tough, not real tough. Honestly, why the fuck does that get rewarded?
The good news is hopeful doesn't mean dumb. The bad news is cynical doesn't mean smart. -- Sarah Silverman
by pagingstanleyroberts on Feb 2, 2012 1:54 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think it is easier to act tough
When your C is 7’ 3" and thick and one of your PFs plays like he has contract incentives based on Flagrant 2s committed.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 2, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Had it not been for 3 or 4 other games this year....
….where the Pacers have gotten under the skin of their opponent, I would have gone fake-tough. They seem to be going for it (a’la old Eastern Conference ball).
we have a long list of enemies now
I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. It's impossible to put down.// I wondered why the baseball was getting bigger, Then it hit me// A hole has been found in the nudist camp wall. The police are looking into it.
what if...
we wait a bit before deciding much about… well, anything. (other than the obvious fact of Love and Ricky being the real deal) Actually, I have a lot of faith in Rick A. He’s had almost no practice time to really get to know the strengths and weaknesses of various players, much less potential effective units. I think that as time passes, we’ll see him continue to experiment until in a month or so we get a more regular starting group and substitution pattern. And it will be the logical, most effective one. Adelman has already changed much about the Timberwolves personna, he and Ricky after all are the two biggest differences between this year and last, I’m willing to give him some more time to evaluate personnel.
Cause we've been waiting for about 8 years
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
Sunk Cost
Bad decisions earlier do not make rash decisions now better. I’d prefer not to see the Wolves get stuck in the prospect theory loop of bad decisions to make up for earlier bad decisions for any longer than they already have.
Epistemic closure means never having to admit you're wrong.
by Spouting Opinions on Feb 2, 2012 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
uh...
Love’s foul was no “touch” foul. He grabbed Granger as he was going by. Looked way more like a pissed off frustration foul than anything else. Granger’s reaction was a bit much, but only a bit. As far as toughness, Granger is as tough as anyone, and so is Love. Just two competitors mixing it up a little. Nothing more.
As someone who plays basketball the way the Pacers do
It was incredible to watch professional NBA players lose by getting outscrapped by their opponents. This seems to happen every time we play the pacers, and I guess our team just doesn’t know how to get back.
On a similar note, playing basketball like this and pissing off your opponent, like the pacers did, is really, really fun. Maybe I’m just an asshole but that’s the only way to play for me.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
no, they have a good team
they are really 1 elite player from being a legitimate finals threat. I have faith PG can be that guy
I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.
I think...
that’s the “Charles Barkley School” of get back. We need some students.
by dwb on Feb 2, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Also, on a side note, why don't we sign Bruce Bowen if we want someone who is dirty as hell?

If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
Apparently gifs don't show on SBN blogs
http://gifs.gifbin.com/082011/1312557644_bruce_bowen_kicks_wally_szczerbiak_in_the_face.gif
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
kick and everything?
for some reason its frozen on my browser
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Mark it zero!!
Wally stepped over the line.
Reason is the first victim of strong emotion.
by nodnarb on Feb 2, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Bowen is still younger than Wes.
The Rubio with his passing, I say nothing because it's crazy! As we enjoy!
The frustrating thing about this
is that Bowen in his prime is exactly what the Wolves need. A tough defender who can hit open 3’s.
Thanks for posting video on one of my most talked about Timberwolves memories.
the only thing that dissapointed me...
was the way they roughed up Ricky on screens etc. without reaction from the Wolves. Why we didn’t lead Collison into a few screen crunches of our own in retaliation I don’t know. KLove and Pek should’ve knocked some Pacers down somewhere along the line. Teams will continue roughing Ricky up… we’ve got to show them that there’s a reason not to.
hey
they’re retiring Bowen’s number in SA. Tough (uh… dirty) obviously has it’s place in the league.
forgive the spelling...
“disappointed” duh. guess I was a little het up. Hate to see the unicorn mussed.
Oh and BTW
I hate David Kahn. I went to the Business and Basketball event at TC, and to my surprise that guy is as big of a schmuck in person as the stories you read about him. Anyone who says “me thinks” should be slapped. On top of it, he berated the crowd on innocent questions and made some of the people look dumb. Not that they werent horrible questions, but it just shows his insecurity, almost that he knows he has f’d up, and bad in the past. His only credit is getting Rick and Rick, without the Ricks the guy doesn’t have a job.
One of my favorite ways to judge a teacher, or lecturer, is how they respond to dumb questions.
People who can answer a stupid question in a smart way, without demeaning the asker, are secure in themselves and what they know.
People who deride even intelligent questions? Are struggling, one way or another.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Everyone just seems a little testy today, so I'm trying to break it up.
I think we need to relax a little. Everything will be okay. We’re headed in the right direction and the Pacers are a good team. We could have beaten them, but didn’t. The officiating sucked, it happens. Let’s beat New Jersey tomorrow.
Its just our management is so horrible
Without Love developing into an incredible player, and Rubio, what would we be? Worse than last year, that’s for sure
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
I don't doubt it, but lets enjoy the fact that we're a decent basketball team.
We have a chance to get a nice FA in the offseason. We have some nice pieces to build around and some valuable trade assets.
Valuable trade assets being....
Williams and Pek, I’m guessing? No way I’m giving away Pek, so I guess that leaves Williams.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 2, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
what about him
he’s an expiring contract, someone may want that
Well, we've got picks too. Luke may have some value at the deadline. Beasley has value.
I honestly think we should amnesty Wes or just take a 2nd rounder (If we can get one). He is a cancer on this team.
maybes we should just trade anything and everything
but Love and Rubio. Maybe keep Beaz/Williams/Pek/Barea. Everyone else can go, and then try and get like Anthony Davis – that would be ideal. It would never happen tho I suppose.
All we
need is one more player. A #1 for that matter. With that #1 option and KLove and Rubio. The gaps fill themselves in.
and a center
So all we need is a #1, KLove, Rubio, and a center… and a shooting guard. If our #1 is SF we’ll still need a shooting guard. So all we need is a #1, we have Love/Rubio, a center and a shooting guard. ….and a 6th man. When we trade for a #1 and a SG we won’t have a bench anymore. So all we need is a #1, we have Love/Ricky, a center, a shooting guard and a sixth man. Then we’ll be set. …. and a POBO…
by midlife crisis on Feb 2, 2012 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 2, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Seafood tom yum
actually. Still have not figured out how to get the mussels to stay in my spoon but those half shells are great sources of calcium!
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
I have a note next to my desk to try:
Pad-see-ew
tom yum
Evidentally at On’s Thai Kitchen. I’ve got to order something besides curry at some point.
Anglicized Thai spellings are all over the place
but Pad See Yew is tasty stuff, and Tom Yum is easily one of the world’s great soups. Hope you like hot food because both are best when spicy.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Yes, Noodle Soup!
And Kahn is just like the Noodle Soup Master, Mr. Ping.

He believes the secret ingredient that this team needs to push for the playoffs is…nothing! Wes, Wayne, Derrick and Darko just need to believe they are special!
by dropstep on Feb 2, 2012 3:15 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Is anyone else here
a HUGE Kung Fu Panda fan? I used to think Samurai Jack was best, but Jack Black owns me.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
Having 3 kiddies leads me to see way more animated movies...
….than I’d like, but I have to say that the original Kung Fu Panda is one of the better non-Pixar/Studio Ghibli flicks out there. Also fairly decent: Puss n Boots and Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. I’m going to call it now: The Lorax will be unwatchable.
Having 0 kids
I still watch a ton of animated films
I love the Ghibli films, if your kids/you havent seen my neighbor totoro its super awesome and great for kids. Those movies make me so happy.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
Wow
that post makes it look like im mentally challenged.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 2, 2012 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
I don't have kids and I love animated films..
Shrek is one of my favorite movies of all time. I really enjoyed “The Incredibles”, “Despicable Me”, “Kung Fu Panda”, etc. I don’t know what it is, but I will always love animated films. They have to be really bad (i.e.-Monsters versus Aliens) for me to not like them.
Check out
“How to train your Dragon,” “Tangled,” and “Princess and the Frog” the latter if you like the older disney style otherwise you can skip it.
Yeah animated films just remind of being a kid again, its awesome, even if I get weird looks going into the theater with candy and no kids (sometimes by myself which gets really awkward)
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 3, 2012 9:03 AM CST up reply actions
it's my daughters favorite movie
I personally really like Up and Howl’s Moving Castle.
I've seen the first 2 and liked both. I haven't seen "Princess and the Frog" yet.
I did see Megamind, Kung Fu Panda 1 and 2, etc. And I’m with you.. I would gladly go to see an animated movie alone.. wouldn’t give it a second thought.
Princess and the Frog
is great but I like New Orleans and the music so..
Tangled and Gnomeo and Juliet are both on netflix- I watch the latter over and over again via obsessed three year old. Tangled is a nice break when I can talk her into it.
and I do like the old school films..
Aladdin, The Little Mermaid, The Lion King, Beauty and the Beast, etc. I can’t think of one I didn’t like.
The early 90's era
was a true golden era. I’m really happy to have been a child then. I love Aladdin, it is just super funny in Hungarian.
Did it occur that
Iago (the parrot) had teeth in Aladdin? Supervillains always have teeth. Evil teeth.
And in Disney movies?
Villains have accents. Especially in Aladdin. Ever notice how the heroes speak like they are from the West Coast, but that the villain speaks with a foreign accent.
It is a well known fact
that all people with British (particularly English) accents are evil, pretentious, or both.
Some slightly older animated movies that I really enjoyed
The Emperor’s New Groove: David Spade at his best! As a llama! Lots of good lines – you have to listen fast because they fly.
Mulan: Strong female lead character in Disney action movie set in China. Good side-humor from Eddie Murphy as a tiny dragon.
Hercules: Disney take on Greek classic. Great villain, interesting art direction, good music (surprisingly), and some good humor.
Hoodwinked: I thought this ‘fractured fairy tale’ take on Little Red Riding Hood was hilarious. Another one where the funny lines sort of occur on the sides and come fast & furious. Not to be confused with Hoodwinked 2, which was absolutely horrible.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 3, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
PS: My kids are now in middle school so we are moving away from this genre
But I find most of the non-animated movies very formulaic, predictable, and unfunny.
I did really enjoy School of Rock with Jack Black though. Somewhat predictable at a high level, but a great, earnest performance by Black and kids who really play all the instruments. Very good music at the end (for me – a rock fan).
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Feb 3, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
All great flicks
Emperors new groove might be the most underrated Disney movie of all time. Its one of my favorite underrated comedies along with Captain Ron.
But some of those late 90’s early 2000’s Disney movies (Treasure Planet and Lilo and Stitch to name a few) I thought were real duds
I still havent seen Panda 2 or anything Shrek related since the second one though, am I missing out?
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 3, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
yes and no..
Panda 2 is good, but Shrek 3 and 4 are horrendous. As far as recent movies are concerned I highly recommend Despicable Me. I would say the same about Megamind, but unfortunately for the movie it was preceded by Despicable Me which has a similar story line.
I REALLY like
How to Train Your Dragon. I even downloaded the soundtrack and I’d like a Night Fury for a pet. I’m a total dork.
Totoro is a Miyazaki movie, isn't it?
Haven’t seen it. The guy creates such a rich world around his movies, though.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Yup
His animation is amazing and so detailed and the storytelling is so deep. If you havent checked out most of his films I would highly recommend them. If you have young kids I would NOT show them Princess Mononoke if you dont like violence but the others are great for anyone.
by WolvesBigTicket on Feb 3, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
They're remaking the Lorax? Whatever for?
(The book comes to mind every year, when I get all those Christmas letters with the wrong apostrophes.
The Chester’s Christmas Letter 2011
Who is this Chester? Is he like the Onceler?)
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I have friends,
a very intelligent couple, who have a sign near their front door announcing who they are. Their name isn’t Johnson, but if it were, the sign would read “The Johnson’s: Dave and Stephanie.” Every time I go to their house I think, “Why do they belong to the Johnson?”
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 3, 2012 8:11 AM CST up reply actions
One has to plan ahead to avoid that.
One summer at our Colorado cabin, I had the job of ordering a sign for the road. Having spoken to the sign maker beforehand, I carefully chose a phrasing he couldn’t screw up. He was pretty determined to add apostrophes. The conversation was surreal.
Does your school have a “Girl’s Room”? Lots of them do.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
I think they have
very utilitarian metal strips that read, “WOMEN.”
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 3, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
Ah. So it's like a supply cabinet, then.
"First, I'd like to blame the Lord for causing us to lose today."
Bojan Bogdonavik
I think we have him right? let’s bring him over!
Obvious flaws
I don’t understand Adleman. Some days I am thinking he knows what he, but recently I can’t understand his plan. Wes has consistently been awful his defensive “skills” are not worthy of a starter. A SG is suppose to consistently score. I know Wes will NEVER be on the level of Dwade, Melo, Kobe, but he is consistently getting worse. Martell is a much better option. Darko is also god awful. I had nightmares about his hook shot last night. Luke is a descent backup PG, but has no reason starting at SG. Ideal lineup is PG Rubio, SG Martell, PF Love, C Pek, SF Love. Ellington reserve guard and Beasley SF off the bench. Wes needs to hit the D League and humble himself for a season. This is my first post on here so hope you guys can relate.
by mnsportswopwopwah on Feb 2, 2012 5:10 PM CST reply actions
You have Love starting PF and SF here? My eyes are bad.
by fanslaststand on Feb 2, 2012 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
I mean seriously, two loves? That would let one lob 3's and the other rebound.
Championship homeboy!
SMH....I swear I'm on a cooking website 1/2 the time.
This won’t work because everybody has to have a different number.
It’s in the RULES. Remember those?
You guys are amazing.
by fanslaststand on Feb 2, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
speaking of cooking websites
since this site has given me some great recipes in the past what are you all making for your super bowl parties? I"m planning on trying these wings since they seem to be a quintessential football food and I’m making my kid’s favorite snacks cheese wantons and pretzel bread with cheese dip but I need one or two more good ideas, I’m leaning towards egg rolls with sweet-n-sour sauce for one but have no idea for the other.
I'm going to have about 64 beers in 3 days in vegas
by fanslaststand on Feb 3, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
My freshman year of college we had a beer marathon...
…10 of us started – each with his own 30-pack. The object was to finish within 24 hours. I was one of three that finished.
Ooh
anyone else immediately imagine an animated GIF of Kevin1 missing a basket and Kevin2 putting it back up and missing and Kevin1 grabbing it, putting it up and missing, and Kevin2….
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
hell we don't need 2 Kevins for that
We have Love and Pek
That's NEVER going to work.
I’m not even going to explain it to you people.
by fanslaststand on Feb 2, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
Tanguy Ngombo was drafted to help Kevin learn how to manipulate the time/space continuum
We were all just too stupid to realize it. Kahn is a genius.
Gary, you didn't kill your brother. Those gorillas did.
955 wins says Adelman knows what he's doing.
Live And Stupid From England
by JonesTheCat on Feb 3, 2012 8:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I should really proofread what I write before acting on emotion I SF D Will, but he never gets mins so I kinda forgot about him
by mnsportswopwopwah on Feb 2, 2012 5:16 PM CST reply actions
I dont think this loss was because we lacked that "2" everyone clamors for
Looking at this detached from all bias, Minny hung around for most of the game despite what we felt watching the game. Minny missed a lot of easy shots, and it was the first time twolves were at full strength (minus lee). People forget that this franchise went through the most changes during the offseason, not to mention that alot of players havent played a lot in the NBA.
I think Patience is the key word in Minnesota.
State of waiting
With the recent failures of the Wild, Twins, and Vikings it seems that we forget about the past and are hoping for anything and these Twolves seem to be the only team that give us hope perhaps that’s why were so hard on them.
by mnsportswopwopwah on Feb 2, 2012 6:05 PM CST reply actions
Recent failures?
Cleveland feels sorry for us as a sport town.
J.R. Smith anyone?
He will be an unrestricted free agent when he comes back from China. He may have no interest because we don’t fit the definition of contender. The fit seems pretty ideal… SG-SF.
I have a feeling that...
J.R. will sign with whomever offers him the most money. Just a feeling. I think we have a shot, sure. I think he is nuts, though. I don’t think he would fit chemistry-wise, but talent-wise he would.
Seems so convenient
to have an opportunity to improve the wing position without a trade or draft.
by Stabby Stabby on Feb 2, 2012 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
I met him in Shanghai on one of his infamous shopping trips (where I shamelessly lobbied for him to sign in MN) and am bringing a huge “MN Loves JR” sign to his next CBA game here. If he signs in Minny I’m taking all the credit.
I would love for this to happen after a Beasley/Ariza trade at the deadline.
by Rain Dance on Feb 2, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Smith
Can you give any insight on what exactly happened/is happening with JR Smith over in China? We get these stories about him being accused of faking a knee injury to get out of his contract, or his sister throwing roundhouses in the stands…but the first time that happened, he was also playing against the team that threw down against the Georgetown Hoyas.
I’m not saying Smith and his network are without any blame (this stuff tends to follow him), but at the same time, I’m not exactly buying that his sister tried to take on her bleacher section solely because of a bad foul call, either.
And I’ve said this before: I have no idea where Smith is at from a maturity standpoint, or what type of guy he is. But as for his physical skillset, it’s tough to imagine a better fit at 2-guard for this team. If he could fit in, he’d be frightening with Love and unicorn.
The official news stories you guys get in the states are probably much more accurate than the news stories here. The state media here pretty much puts all the blame on the Smif contingent and I’m sure some of that bias comes through in the stories you get over there. It’s pretty clear that JR has been doing anything and everything he can do to get out of his contract since the new collective bargaining agreement was signed…the Chinese don’t like that very much.
From what I’ve heard here (I have a friend that works for the Sharks), the first stadium altercation was the result of some Chinese fans spitting at JR and the latest was the result of some Chinese fans throwing stuff at JR while he was on the court. The family, naturally, took offense to this stuff and the situations escalated. It most certainly wasn’t the family reacting to a bad foul call. CBA crowds do tend to get pretty rowdy at times, but I’ve never seen anything resembling that level of disrespect toward a single player at any of the games I’ve attended. JR is pretty polarizing over here. And to be fair he has brought some of it on himself, but no one deserves to be spit at. To his credit, JR hasn’t really been a part of any of the fighting and such, he seems to have kept a pretty level head through most of this. Can’t say I’d be able to do the same if someone spit at me…
As for Smith the player, I have been intrigued by him in a Wolves uni for a long time. He really can do everything we need our two to be able to do next to Rubio. He can shoot the lights out, he can defend, he’s an underrated playmaker, has great handle, etc. Volatile? Maybe, but I’d imagine skip passes for wide open 3s and thunderdunks off of Rubioops would go a long way toward keeping him happy. For what we need on this team, I’d be happy drastically overpaying to get him.
A side note: he told me that he wouldn’t sign with the Heat and his tone suggested that he was disgusted by the thought….so he must be a pretty decent human being.
by Rain Dance on Feb 3, 2012 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Indiana is a good team - a little chippy though
Indiana is a good team and they can shoot better than the Wolves. Indiana played a little chippy and it got under the Wolves skin. The Wolves did not play back at them in the right way. It would have been fine if the Wolves came back at them with some offensive charges that may or may not have been called.
Kevin Love’s foul that started the little shoving match was a little flagrant arm chop. It wasn’t a big deal, but it was meant to stop the player with the ball. Indiana was not going to be stopped after it.
Michael Beasley is an "on fire’, “not on fire” player. When Michael has it revved up and the gears are turning, he is a basketball dojo. One of the problems is that often Michael is “not on fire” and you get a number of mediocre plays. A 6th man role suits Michael. Bring him in, if he catches fire, the team will rev up. If not, Michael comes out and the team gets back to work.
A consistant outside shooter is still important. The Wolves have a good shooting game maybe once out of three times. The Wolves need to make a higher percentage of their outside shots on a consistant basis to win. If the Wolves cannot do that, they should not take so many outside shots.
I think the Wolves sometimes need to tone down the “rassle-dassle” plays and make the consistant smart plays. It’s fine to use the “flash” if you know it is going to work. Too often it results in a turnover, a loss of momentum and an easy basket for the other team.
The last thing I would like to see is when the Wolves get a turnover, they don’t have to take the first poor outside shot they see on the other end. They have a good offense when they run it. No need to get sloppy and throw up a quick brick.
Is it just me
or does Love look like he’s trying to spank Granger in that picture?

by 















