4-point play, explained
by indeed02 on Feb 3, 2012 10:50 PM CST
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PrintI know the refs tend to swallow their whistles in the last few seconds of a game, but the moving screen on Johnson was horrible. Johnson made the right defensive move, but the screen literally blocked him (the guy had his arms extended, feet moving - he look liked a TE trying to keep his job) off his path.
Just because we are tired of Wes's 0-fer nights doesn't mean we can't defend him when he's so obviously cheated.
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He still fouled him
Not a whole lot to say.
Wes still sucks
not a whole lot to say either
"David Kahn doesn't like it, so I'm going to keep it." - Kevin Love on growing his beard.
It wasn't just a moving screen...
…it was a blatant arm bar. That being said, Wes was once again blood-curdlingly bad in three of four quarters tonight
by Timberwolf in LA on Feb 3, 2012 11:00 PM CST reply actions
I'm not going to defend or knock him. He hasn't be producing consistently as a reasonable level.
One made three pointer or one bad foul isn’t going to change anything big picture. If he produces consistently in a positive manner for more than 30 games I’ll change my tune. Doesn’t seem like a bad kid, but the on court evidence so far for his career isn’t very positive. I wish him well, but don’t really expect much of anything.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
Not a referendum on WJ
As Wolves fans, we can look at a whole body of work and say that WJ is a bust and it’s time to move on.
But, as Wolves fans, we can’t allow our frustration with a player to cloud our comments about a certain play. Be frustrated with him for fouling (RA is!), but also express our frustration at the hack job that led to it.
that is to say
Don’t allow your dislike of a Wolves player stop you from viewing the game (or a play) as a Wolves fan.
Wes did make the wrong play
Yes he got mugged by Shelden Williams but he should never have gone under that screen. Morrow was like 7 of 10 from 3 at that point and the Nets were down 5 and fouling with seconds left.
Wes was unlucky to be called for the foul and unlucky for the refs not to call a foul on the screener but Wes screwed up first by going under the screen. So he did not make the right play, which allowed misfortune to befall him.
The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness
what should he have done?
Do you stop guarding with :30 left? Seriously, is it so hard to say the call was aweful without qualifying it?
Indeed02 is right. If it were Rubio knocked into a shooter it would be outrage and apologies all around. A HOF coach had the defensive lineup on the court he thought could best help him win. He’s done it all season. Who doesn’t get this?
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Feb 3, 2012 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
Other's thoughts on this?
I didn’t play a lot of organized ball past 7th grade (I’m 5’7" and slow – just like I was in 7th grade), but from the basketball I’ve watched, I thought it’s standard to cut under a screen when your guy is moving without the ball – this keeps him from being able to cut to the basket, and it allows you to move to him at just the right time. Wesley did all that, then when he tried to move toward him (he would have been there in plenty of time), he got mugged.
Those who no more about x and o’s (and “right” defense) chime in, but I thought WJ made the right play (though, of course, you simply cannot foul when you’re up by 5 in the closing seconds).
When a team needs 3 pointers, you prevent them from taking 3 pointers
I’ve only watched the play once, but keeping him off the 3 point line would have been best. 2nd best would have been fighting through the illegal screen and contesting properly. Fouling with that much time left in the game is 2nd from the bottom, only ahead of getting some sort of technical.
by domesticllama on Feb 3, 2012 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
it depends
Actually cutting under a screen is the MOST evasive. I teach players to fight through or fight over.
If you go under you are giving away the jumper. If you go over you risk the drive as you are now following or behind your man. This is why teammates “hedge out” on the ball. It gives you time to recover and stops the ball from penetrating. If Wes went under he took the most cautious route. And again, it is his teammate’s job to hedge out on the shooter. Especially one who is playing his best game ever and shooting out of his mind.
Anyone who says Wes made a mistake going under a screen doesn’t really have a clue.
Wolves 2011-12: Crossing the Rubikahn....alea iacta est...... " et tu Ricky?"
by Tangerine dream on Feb 3, 2012 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
Any time you're guarding a shooter - particularly a hot shooter - you go OVER the screen and recover on the hedge.
In pick-up up ball, I usually sag off a bit until they hit one, then I’m in their face whenever they have the ball. If I were guarding Morrow (or Kapono or Manu or Kmartin, etc) I’m face-guarding the hell out of them to try to prevent them from getting the ball.
The early fouls really made it tough on our defense
because Morrow is obviously lights out when he’s got it on, and puts up his shot really, really fast. The only thing you can do with a player that hot is keep him from getting the ball, and that’s where we fell down.
Yo ho ho and a FirstRow stream!
While Wes's foul on this play was inexcusable...
he actually prevented Morrow from getting the ball on the play before. I don’t remember exactly what happened. I think it was when Deron Williams drove to the hoop and dished to Kris Humphries for the dunk. Anyway, I was closely watching Wes guarding Morrow on the play (because Morrow was hitting every d*mn shot). Wes did a good job of locking up Morrow down low, so he couldn’t get free. I was so proud of him for once, and then he had to screw it up on the next play by fouling a 3-point shooter…well, at least, we got the win!
Disagree that Wes did the right thing...
He should have jumped out on Morrow after the inbounds. Instead, he fell back slightly, and tried to go UNDER the screen (which I admit was moving and illegal, but so is every other screen in the league these days). Wrong move by Wes, and I’m pretty sure that’s why RA was so pissed after the play.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Not part of this play, but
what about the arm bars that Deron Williams put on us whenever he drove the lane. I don’t recall that offensive foul being called, but it sure looked blatant to me.
He was called for at least one of those.
"Oh my, oh my, oh my. Is that great basketball or what?" --Hubie Brown, Jan. 20, 2012
by Cynical Jason on Feb 4, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
Can't figure out Wes
All other Rambis-era holdovers seem to be playing at least as well as they did last year, and most of them much better.
Only Wes has regressed.
I’m not sure what RA’s motivation for sticking with him is. Maybe he sees something nobody else does. Maybe he’s getting pressure to play him from above. I have no idea.
It’s frustrating because Wes is a likeable guy, and you want to see him do well. (With jerks like Rider, Laettner, McCants, etc., you just wanted them to go away.)
But it seems like maybe it’s best to deal him at this point, maybe for a guy in a similar situation – young guy who has performed under expectations who could benefit from a change of scenery – but I can’t think of anyone off the top of my head who fits that description and a Wolves need. Might have been Mayo to some degree before he started scoring lately.
I can't believe Wes is getting burn because of pressure from above.
Glen has never seemed to be guilty of such meddling, and if the POBOBOZO still has that kind of power RA ought to be screaming bloody murder. Of course, thinking that this franchise has to operate in at least a marginally sensible fashion has led me astray before.
"pokin' the animals at the Canis Hoopus zoo"
by pastyearsears on Feb 4, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
my initial reaction to this title post was...
there is no way to explain it, it was a terrible basketball play.
This post did nothing to sway me otherwise. Regardless of what the screener was doing, you don’t foul, or touch a guy shooting a three when its a two possession game with around a possession left. NO MATTER WHAT.
I like Wes the guy, but I honestly don’t see why he gets the burn he does. Honestly, what does he do that Martell Webster can’t do? I can’t count how many easy jumpers I’ve seen Wes brick, and his overall court awareness (of players and time and space) is subpar and really, if anyone on this team should be a healthy inactive, so far its Wes. Facts are facts, and I challenge anyone to find reliable, and meaningful, metric that says Wes deserves the minutes he’s getting.
This 20 year Minnesota sports title drought is starting to get absurd, especially when the 2000s was one giant blue balls.
my suspicion
is that RA holds out hope that Webster and Beasley can give him some effective minutes so he is using playing time as the carrot/stick to reward them. They just haven’t delivered yet.
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