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Reality of Derrick Williams trade ideas.

Okay,

Here's the deal. I'm not usually one to speak up on such matters but this one I think finally needs to be put to rest. People (not everyone...but some people) keep introducing the idea of the need or the possibility of a Derrick Williams trade this year. "He's not good enough... he's not what we were hoping for with the second pick... what's his trade value? ... Why doesn't Adelman play him more?... He's not as good as he was in college" and so on and so forth. Here's the reality so we can cease all of this discussion and move on: Derrick Williams is NOT going to be traded this year. He probably won't be traded next year or the year after that either. He's supposed to be a building block of this team. You can continue to talk about a Williams trade but it IS NOT going to happen! You can talk about Randolph, Beasley, Tolliver, but Williams is not in the trade conversation. Furthermore, why is everyone jumping on this guy's back all the time? He's on the bench behind the guy with the highest average minutes in the league, he's only averaging 18 minutes a game, AND he's a rookie. Yeah, I understand that he was the number 2 pick and his 3's have been off but give the guy a break. We're 25 games into a condensed season with about 3 weeks of training camp and very little practice time. Just because he's not Rubio doesn't mean that he won't be good. Is that our patience level nowadays?! Really?! We give some rookie 20-25 games to be a star and then start yelling for a trade? You expect a rookie bench player to come in and put up 25-10 every night? Give me a break! He's not getting traded. Enough about that already!

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This is NOT about people saying

he is a bust. Or that he isn’t good, or that he wonn’t be good in the future. You said it in your post, he is stuck behind the man averaging the most minutes in the NBA. That is why people are talking about trading him. He is rotting away on our bench. We need to do the right thing and move him before he potentially does prove to be a bust (not suggesting he will). Right now, he still has the shine of the #2 overall pick, and he has shown some good things when he is on the floor. Personally, I would like the see Williams start at the 3, and just see what happens. Not like he could do worse then Wes. But I’m sure you will disagree with this, and that’s fine. We are all entitled to our opinions.

by Bartzy on Feb 8, 2012 1:13 PM CST reply actions  

This this this and this some more

Why spend a number 2 pick on a guy you can only offer 15mpg to???? Is that good value? It has absolutely nothing to do with how much Williams has produced so far and everything to do with the fact that of the pieces that are not building blocks (i.e. not Love or Rubio and probably not Pekovic) he has the most value, ergo we can get the best player in return for him. No one is jumping on his back, we just want the best possible team. Consider if you will a simple grading scale of players 1-10, ten being superstars, 7+being stars, 5 being average, 4 an acceptable rotation player and 1-3 being terrible. Which team makes more sense

TEAM 1
PG: 9, 6, 6
SG: 4
SF: 2, 4, 5, 4
PF: 10, 6, 5
C: 7, 4, 3

OR Team 2
PG: 9, 6, 6
SG: 4
SF: 7, 2, 4, 5, 4
PF: 10, 5
C: 7, 3, 3

For reference the first is
PG: Rubio, Ridnour, Barea
SG: Ellington
SF: Johnson, Beasley, Webster, Tolliver
PF: Love, Williams, Randolph
C: Pek, Darko, Miller

in the second we traded DWill for Batum which doesn’t make a ton of sense considering his contract situation but he’s a very good player

I have not listed Lee at Shooting Guard because he is too much of an unknown. Clearly (if you believe my metrics) Adelman is doing the right thing by playing our backup PGs as SGs.

by zebano on Feb 8, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually I basically do agree with that. Good points. He should start in Wes’s spot. I’d be cool with that.

by GhostofPooh on Feb 8, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I mostly hate this post,

but I agree that people shouldn’t be too hard on Williams at this point (he’s young, he’s shown some good things with the not-as-good). I’ll even agree that the Wolves probably won’t trade him.

Here’s the part I hate: the best argument for trading him is because he is pretty good and has room to imrpove. We don’t have a lot of other trade bait to get a good SF or SG. If he gets us a good player at a position of greater need, I’d make that trade in a second.

I feel like this argument has needed to be re-stated way too many times.

by Madison Dan on Feb 8, 2012 1:15 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

The problem is

the gettable players are not worth giving him up as is.Batum, Gordon, etc. should be much cheaper than giving up a nice, very young, athletic player.

by Keelhaul on Feb 8, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

If we needed to give up Williams to get Batum,

I’d do it. I’m hoping we can get Batum as a RFA, though.

by Madison Dan on Feb 8, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Ridnour + 2nd rounder should be more than enough.

Giving up a #2 pick for $2-3 million + half a year from Batum? Well, that’s not an evil genius move.

by Keelhaul on Feb 8, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't trade Williams for half a year from Batum.

He’d need to be extended, so at this point we’re talking sign-and-trade after the season (if those are still allowed).

by Madison Dan on Feb 8, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Well then screw them, they'll lose him any way

Some team will pay for him and if they match they’ll have to move Gerald Wallace. I don’t think they’re ready to do that.

by Keelhaul on Feb 8, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

false dilema

they could trade Gerald Wallace and match the offer to Batum. Lots of possibilities here.

by rubiorube on Feb 8, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Ha! Yeah. It is kind of ironic. Though I guess I shouldn’t have demanded that the speculation stop. I was just trying to say that it’s not going to happen so it’s kind of a waste of time.

by GhostofPooh on Feb 8, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I am really enjoying all the trade speculation involving Williams in the comments to a post demanding the end of all trade speculation involving Williams.

by rubiorube on Feb 8, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

One possible solution

Williams for Batum+ unprotected first rounder this year or the next. I’d accept that.
Or this
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6te4rp3
Plus the MEM pick from us. That would be a MAJOR trade going forward.

by Keelhaul on Feb 8, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

That's

basically they take over two bad contracts, we get some more capspace, a good rental on Camby and we match Batum. They get Wes, still an elite athlete, Darko, still an elite talent and Williams + a nice pick.

by Keelhaul on Feb 8, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think they'll trade Batum during the season.

They’re doing too well to mess things up. I also think they believe they’ll keep him beyond this season.

I read that they had little incentive to extend him, because his cap hold stays really low until they do. So they sign Wallace first, then match whatever comes in for Batum. It’s a little risky for them, but I doubt they’re looking to get rid of him.

by Madison Dan on Feb 8, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

So they sign Wallace for say 9M

and sign Batum for another 6 maybe (it’ll be more)?

That’s very risky, borderline stupid.

by Keelhaul on Feb 8, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Plus they're not doing things well enough

I think the point should be to win a championship. You can’t do that with a core that they have. Batum is too good not to be traded. They’d be better off with a more solid bench, maybe an upgrade at the PG position.

Something like this.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7dje32z

Maybe sweeten the deal with some picks.
The Blazers get an extremely solid PG rotation for Batum, so now they have
Nash-Matthews-Wallace-LMA-Camby which is a contender team, we get two good contracts, send Williams home with some potential and picks to the Suns.

by Keelhaul on Feb 8, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

If we were to outright sign Batum

could he play 2 and would that allow us to start Williams at the 3? I.e. is that enough defense on the wing to make up for the 3rd leg of the wing trio to not be as sound?

I don't know what an art house is, I don't know what goes on in an art house, I have never been in an art house, and I can't imagine it's any place I ever want to be.

by VoodooMagic on Feb 9, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I would trade D-Thrill

for Eric Gordon in a heartbeat! I’m just not sure Glen would go for having 3 guys (Love, Gordon and potentially Rubio) making the max or very close to it.

by Bartzy on Feb 8, 2012 1:22 PM CST reply actions  

Sorry

that was a reply to Keelhaul

by Bartzy on Feb 8, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Well

he’s injury prone and likely someone will have to terribly overpay him. If you want to get the team screwed, you sign him.

by Keelhaul on Feb 8, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Historically ..

.. it is extremely rare for a team to trade a lottery pick player during his rookie season. After draft nights, fans start to see the player at his best possible future, and the team’s marketing arm ramps up to capitalize on that excitement.

For the 2011 wolves, we have an interesting situation where this has not happened. All eyes are on the other rookie, Ricky Rubio, and because of questions about position fit, I think that people have entertained an idea of trading Williams.

Because the situation is so rare, it’s likely Williams carries very high value in the league. He’s clearly the best player in this rookie class that could possibly be available, and still carries some marketing potential from the media he got last year in Arizona, and prior to his #2 selection on the NBA draft. This makes it possible for a rebuilding team to part with a beloved star performer, and still keep fans engaged for the future. Also, in a time when teams are seeing their stars force their way to destination cities, Williams won’t have leverage for four .. or more likely seven .. years.

Now, the question becomes “WILL the Wolves consider offers for Williams?” Yes, he has a lot of potential, and even better, yes, he’s locked into a rookie deal, that allows them to concentrate their payroll on more important needs. However, trade value comes from uniqueness, so I think the wolves may be hearing some pretty extravagant offers. Whether they act on them .. that we will have to see.

by shrink on Feb 8, 2012 1:32 PM CST reply actions  

2002 Memphis Grizzlies and 2012 Minnesota Timberwolves

I think the wolves this year are very similar to the Grizzlies team of 2002.
1. The Grizzlies were a sub-500 team for 8 years up to their 2002 season. The wolves have been sub 500 for the past 6 seasons
2. Both teams had great young power forwards (Gasol & Love)
3. Both team had exciting young point guards with great court vision (JWill & Rubio
4. Both teams spent their lottery pick the previous year on a PF. The Grizzlies selected Drew Gooden 4th overall and The Wolves DWill 2nd overall.
5. Both teams were among the youngest teams of the league and exciting to watch.
6. Both were missing a wing player to take them over the top.
What did the Grizzlies do to take them over the top? They traded Drew Gooden midway through his first season for Mike Miller and a first round pick. The grizzlies did not make the playoffs that season, but they made them the 3 following years.
The Grizzlies never did win a playoff series and they eventually did disband their team, but the trade did make them better.
How good would this team be with a SF that is above average? If DWill can get us that player, I say pull the trigger. Love is our power forward. We need to stop trying to make DWill fit the system and trade him for somebody that does. I know many of you have high hopes for him, but I think its easier to trade for a player that will fit Adelman’s system rather than trying to make DWill fit. DWill and Love are as incompatible as Gasol and Gooden were.

by GritNGrind on Feb 8, 2012 2:41 PM CST reply actions  

All this Williams talk is making me dizzy.

I think there are many competing perspectives on this that will never be reconciled. That, of course, is the beauty of anonymous fan sites. Around and around we go.

The possibility always exits that a trade that makes sense comes around and we accept it. That said I do agree it is unlikely that we will trade Derrick Williams anytime soon. I personally am good with that. I like him and have reservations about many of the prospective trade targets being suggested. I worry that Gordon is injury prone and that Batum is not worth the money he will command. People will disagree with these but it’s how I see it.

I also do not really understand the idea that Williams and Love can’t play together. Love and Al Jefferson, I thought, struggled to play together. Not because they played the same position but because they had similar strengths and abilities. If the hope is that Williams can shoot and drive that should compliment Love who can shoot and pass. I get that defensivly they might struggle together but both could be helped in this regard by a true shot blocking center (why I would rather see us over pay Hibbert than over pay Batum). I tend to think that, although I agree that Williams is more of a true PF than SF, he can probably play just enough SF and Love can play just enough Center for them to both get plenty of minutes once Williams develops a bit more.

by SlowBreak on Feb 8, 2012 4:42 PM CST reply actions  

I thought this post was going to be about how DWill's trade value is not as high as many here would say

There are so many great forwards in this league right now, I just don’t see a team giving up a good SG for him.

If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm

by CoffeeJanitor on Feb 9, 2012 5:03 PM CST reply actions  

Amen!!!

I’m tired of it, too! I love that so many people on here clamor for Harden. Remember how bad he was his first year? Yet, we’re all ready to trade D-Will? Give me a break. Let’s have some patience.

by sha sha on Feb 10, 2012 4:20 PM CST reply actions  

buy low, sell high

It’s not clear if the wolves are going to keep Beasley next year. With a full off season to learn the offense, a full training camp, and more minutes, D-Will will do much better. Once he’s playing better, we can see if he can play the three or if he’s best at the four. Either way, we should be in a much better position to trade him for a good starter (if that direction makes sense) in that situation than we are now.

I think there’s the fear that D-Will will have the same problems as Wes has had. Most folks probably wish now that we had “sold” on Wes last year before it became obvious how bad he is. But, we shouldn’t let Wes’ failures cloud our judgment with D-Will.

by sha sha on Feb 12, 2012 8:07 AM CST up reply actions  

due to his size and speed

he really really really looks like a 4 to me and while it might be be due to needing to lose 15 pounds and have a training camp to play the 3 Adelman seems to think he’s a 4. Right now he has the shine of being a 2nd pick which unless he totally explodes would be selling high. Only the stars tend to actually be worth more than their draft location; I think we have the next Emeka Okafor on our hands, a nice player but one who isn’t going to live up to the hype of being picked second overall.

by zebano on Feb 13, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

He only looked bad if you just looked at the most basic of stats.

He didn’t shoot the ball well overall, but he was good from 3pt range and got to the line a solid amount.

When he actually got minutes and shots, he produced VERY well. You could see there was a stud ready to break out even then.

by Simitar on Feb 11, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Cna someone answer me this..

..what’s the first day that Williams can be dealt?

Isn’t there a 30-60-90 day period after signing your contract where you cannot be dealt? I’m not sure the specifics so if someone knows I’d appreciate it.

Maybe the waiting period has already lapsed?

by J_Scott on Feb 12, 2012 1:36 PM CST reply actions  

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