No Outliers Tonight
Tonight, the Wolves played a road game without their best player against a superior team, and got beat to hell like you would expect. The magic wasn't going to last forever I guess.
- The Lakers had Rubio and Pekovic scouted. I'll be interested to see how Pek performs now that teams have had time to catch up to him. He's come back to earth over the last 5 games. Say what you will, but I think we can all agree that shooting 60-some-odd-% wasn't going to sustain the whole reason.
- You can also say what you will about Pau Gasol. If I can trade Derrick Williams and spare parts for him, I do it.
- 39% shooting. 26% from three, 55% from the line. Not going to win with that.
- Orlando has a choice between Andrew Bynum and Brook Lopez for Dwight Howard, and instead they are...in the words of His Lord Cutler Beckett...opting for oblivion. I don't understand why teams consistently hold out such false hopes. Howard is not staying in Orlando. Steve Nash will not stay in Phoenix. Has anyone learned anything from LeBron/Melo/Bosh? Get what you can while you can get it.
- I also, for the life of me, don't understand why Anthony Randolph doesn't get on the floor more. He played 12 minutes tonight....granted, 12 not very important minutes, but still....he nearly put up a double-double in that short time. When he gets on the floor, he produces. So get him on the floor.
- And for the love, find a quality wing player
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Randolph is one impressive garbage-time player, yup.
(not a compliment.)
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 12:15 AM CST reply actions
Because Adelman sucks at rotations.
He’s an all-time great coach, and I love what he’s doing for us, but he is so painfully slow to recognize which of his players are actually producing for him. 100% of Wes’s minutes should be going to Webster and Beasley. And AR needs to be playing.
Don’t give me garbage time. Minutes are minutes; production is production. The only thing against Randolph is that his occasional lapses in judgement produce more memorable bad shots/turnovers than other Wolves. But one turnover, however bad, is still one turnover, and his turnover rate of 14.5% is right in line with the team’s 14.7%. Likewise, for all his alleged poor shot-selection, he’s 3rd on the team in TS%.
He’s 3rd on the team in WS/48 and PER, and 4th in DRtg. He ought to be getting 20 minutes/night as our backup C, if not more.
by John Doe on Mar 1, 2012 3:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe you are right on the other counts
But garbage time is garbage time. Very discounted stats
by TO12 on Mar 1, 2012 7:17 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
So do we discount the stats of the rest of those in at garbage time even further?
AR put up some numbers yesterday, but he’s performed alright in non-garbage time situations earlier this year too. He should be playing more.
Our starting five puts up striking stretches of what amounts to "garbage time."
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
We don't see what going on in practice
And team meetings, etc. I’d guess AR doesn’t bring it. Going with the law of averages here, since he’s be in the doghouse of 3 respected coaches.
Yeah, I see B-Easy as a live wire in the meetings about our mission statement.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
sucks is a strong word
I disagree with a few choices: wes playing at all, ridnour playing the 2, martell not playing the 2 and williams not playing a little 3.
but he plays (generally) the teams that play the best
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Sucks.
He found the only way to make Artest look likae a basketball player again.
Ridnour guarding him. Embarrasing. The nswitched with Fisher. And fisher make two consecutive buckets for first time since 2008.
Solution? Bench Rubio.(maybe 2pf? i’ve erased the game , can’t be sure?
"but he plays (generally) the teams that play the best"
in-game, yes…he often finds a unit that is producing and sticks with them
However, he still sticks with his starting unit that puts us in a hole in the 1Q and 3Q over and over and over again. With Wes being the prime suspect.
Bang Bang Choo Choo Train
I'd like to think he's 1000x better at this than any of us would ever be
There’s probably a method to his madness, and I can definitely understand why he doesn’t make changes too quickly.
Also, AR does not need to be playing.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed on all accounts
I have a hard time putting any stock in people questioning RA’s lineups.
He has
after all been fairly successful. One of the more successful in NBA history. There’s probably a reason for that.
by dwb on Mar 1, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't question Adleman
And hindsight criticism of results in isolated situations are sketchy, at best.
by bustaone on Mar 1, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Enough of this circle-jerk
What I’m saying is so very far from “hindsight criticism of results in isolated situations” it’s laughable. We’re talking broad trends based on the largest sample-sizes available. Go by players’ career numbers, or slice the data any other way you please:
- AR’s worst season as a pro is better than Darko’s best.
- Webster’s worst season as a pro is better than Wes’s best.
Far from an isolated instance, there have been a number of cases this season where Adelman didn’t play the players who most deserved minutes. I will reiterate that I think he’s a great coach, but great =/= perfect. Bury your heads in the sand if you want, but I’m going to continue to talk about ways this team could improve.
by John Doe on Mar 1, 2012 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Oh, don't think I imply you don't have the option of your own opinion!
So far, the overall result (18-18) is one that not many people expected. I look at it more as a whole rather than player choices. I might be wrong, but that’s my perspective.
What will really be interesting is if...
….the Wolves miss the playoffs by 2 or so games. Using vj’s PA100 metric from earlier in the month, Wes , in his 22 or so mpg, was subtracting more points from the bottom line than Love was adding in his nearly 40 mpg. Granted, this is just offensive impact, but still. It’s not like Wes is a good defender where it would throw this take off its rocker.
When does that become an Adelman problem? It’s not like it is hard to point out in real time. We’re watching one of the worst 2 or 3 players in the league get a starting job and 20+ minutes while negatively affecting the performance of a team that could make the playoffs. At some point I think there needs to be an answer from the team about this.
(And yes, the answer will be “we just want to develop our guys” or some BS like that.)
It's like clockwork
Question a coach, and someone inevitably chimes in with a textbook appeal to authority. Yes, thank you for the reminder that I am not the head coach and, as such, don’t have access to all of the information Adelman does. However, I don’t have access to no information, either, and the information I do have access to indicates, quite definitively, that Adelman’s allocation of minutes is suboptimal.
Appeal to authority doesn't usually lend itself well to arguments
But in this case it really does, imo. I think its fair to criticize, but at the same time I think its fair to take a step back and remember this isn’t some idiot out there running the team. I know you know that, I just think its worth a mention
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hasn't this been a long-standing criticism of Adelman though?
I thought one of the main reasons he and the Rockets parted ways was that management wasn’t happy with the rotations he was setting there. And now, here, my desire to see more minutes from AR is far from the only thing we’d list if we were running through all the issues we’ve had with the rotations this year.
To his credit, the eventual insertion of Rubio and Pekovic into the starting lineup shows that he’s open to change, but there are several issues yet unaddressed, forming a significant enough trend that I just really question what he’s thinking.
Watching AR this year...
I don’t know how to explain it, but AR doesn’t .. get it? Meaning the team concept… He seems to get good numbers in garbage time because he demands the ball and never passes.
During meaninful gametime, he has been a great oop target, but he seems to get lost from his man pretty consistantly on d offering easy buckets and his shotblock numbers seem to be about on par with his goaltend numbers (this is by memory, there may be a source of this stat but I don’t know where). Usually AR on the floor predicates a run by the other team. And this is from the perspective of me really wanting him to be as good as I think he can. But something is amiss and I’m not sure what.
by bustaone on Mar 1, 2012 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Someone posted the numbers before, but when AR gets the ball he does not pass it
He is more of a black hole than Beasley when the ball reaches his hands.
I think he doesn’t get PT due to this fact and also due to the fact that he makes a ton of boneheaded plays.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
Both legit complaints
He’s got warts, like anyone else, and his passing and +/- (in an admittedly miniscule sample size this year) are the two big ones. If he didn’t have any weaknesses, he’d be playing for sure.
Couldn't agree more on AR needing more minutes
He seems to get benched for a dumb turnover when the whole team turns it over too often. I’m not privy to what goes beyond closed doors, but on the court AR looks like he’s putting in the effort. The same can’t be said for all our players that are currently getting time.
My dream is that we could package Beas with Wes for a somewhat reasonable wing. Anything halfway decent. We’d improve just by giving more minutes to Martell and DWill and hopefully AR. I know that Williams is better as a 4 at this stage of career and likely always, but I’d rather have playing the 3 full time over Wes/Beasley.
Just like there must be an explanation Nellie didn't play him
Or D’antoni.
It’s the story of ANT’s career thus far. Decent production, but he always ends up collecting DNP-CD’s.
I'd say
Not constant effort
Does play a team game
And I’m would hazard a guess those points just get amplified during practice and other coaching session. Too bad, but I can’t fault RA for not playing him.
You think AR should play more, his stats look great. And then he plays.
He thinks he’s LeBron James.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Ya, it took a while to see
But I really don’t like AR as a player.
*Doesn't play a team game
I gotta get off the phone and onto a real computer
You guys did pretty on the 1st half
Too bad we had to steal the victory from you during the 2nd half.
Good luck against Phoenix tomorrow guys.
Proud to be a brony.
Thanks, man, appreciate you coming back around.
Tough game for us with Love’s beer flu.
Ugh. I hate it when a player goes down or is unable to play
Hopefully, Love comes back soon.
Proud to be a brony.
That's two beer flus in the last week (Utah).
by Are we cursed? on Mar 1, 2012 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
not to mention
He had a poor game vs the clippers. Three beer flus!!!
by twolvehoopster on Mar 1, 2012 7:36 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
There's a nasty "stomach flu" virus going around.
You see people multiple times in clinics.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Stay hydrated, my friend.
We had three siblings in together within a day of each other.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
I'm past it now, but thanks.
The most amazing and wonderful thing about it was that one of my kids managed to avoid it. I didn’t think that was even possible, given the hygiene habits of 5-year olds.
I'm not sure if it's the right word to describe the 2nd half.
I use whatever word that comes out of my head.
Proud to be a brony.
You beat the crap out of us
You can't...dust...for vomit.
Yeah,
the Lakers stole the win tonight like Kermit Washington bumped Rudy Tomjanovich.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 12:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My little opinion on your starting point guard, Ricky Rubio:
I think he’s a great point guard for you guys. I love how he moves the offense around with his speed and athleticism, and how he has the ability to give out assists to his teammates with ease. He needs to work on his shooting, though. But I bet after a few years in the league, he will become one of the most dangerous point guards of all time.
Heck, even us Laker fans in Silver Screen and Roll were watching Rubio intently while he was out there on the court! Who knew such a young and talented point guard can strike fear in the opponents’ hearts?
Proud to be a brony.
Compared Rubio to Kidd tonight
He’s shooting worse than Kidd did in his rookie season, and Kidd, of course, never became a great or even good shooter. Still I think Rubio has a chance to become a slightly better shooter than Kidd and to equal Kidd’s steal and assists…in other words, he can become one of the best PGs of all-time.
Yeah, it’s a great time to be a Wolves fan. Thanks for stopping by.
Rubio's been a (much?) better three-point shooter though.
…I’ve become a protective mother of some 21-year-old Spanish man I’ve never met. What happened to me….
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 1:10 AM CST up reply actions
It's not just you.
When Hollinger did his PER thing on Rubio I bristled like my children were in danger.
I don’t have children.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 1:15 AM CST up reply actions
Kidd has made
the 3rd most 3 pointers in NBA history and shoots it 1% better from long range than Kobe Bryant. If Rubio could shoot it that well I’d flip out. Not sure how someone can say that Kidd never became a good shooter….
by wolfen on Mar 1, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kidd is a career 40% FG, 34.7% 3PT, 78.4% FT
Yeah, he never became a good shooter.
He’s also below leave average in TS% and EFG%.
Who cares how man he made. The question is efficiency and Kidd has never sustained a high level of shooting efficiency.
Not really any argument to the contrary. By your logic Kobe is a great clutch shooter with the game on the line, cause you only count makes and not misses. :)
RR played a pretty good game outside of the horrible shooting
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
I'm just saying, the Lakers didn't really shut him down. He still ran the offense fine. He shut himself down.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 12:45 AM CST up reply actions
He recongnized his turrible superiority over Fisher and pushed his odds
A couple of early buckets would be incredible.
A wing who know how to set up a catch and shoot would raise his ass/g a good 2 or 2.5 points, and if he can defend his men without worrying about Ridnour being posterized or attached to a zone becouse of it would improve his steal numbers.
He was not that bright when played the second unnit. The second unit is five players full, better or worse while the first unit is 3-men strong.
Also, Oceanary, have you been following the Nash situation?
He’s going to honor his contract unless the Suns want to trade him, and the Suns don’t want to. Why everyone continues to insist that he is getting traded is beyond me…He is not LeBron, Deron, Dwight or Carmelo. He is a class act. The fact that the media currently cannot process this and just assumes he’s going to go title chasing says a lot about the current state of the league.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
Even if he is, the trade deadline is the Ides of March, not today.
“Get what you can while you can get it” sounds like it’s a mistake to not deal a big star right away once you think he’s gone. Denver’s front office would disagree with you, strongly.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
He isn't going to demand a trade
But he isn’t going to resign with Phoenix either. They either trade him now, or watch him walk for nothing this summer
I think he goes title chasing in the same sense KG went title chasing.
He’ll have Suns fans blessing while doing it. But I can’t see him resigning in PHX
by Bad News Wolves on Mar 1, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I thought I saw
an interview where Nash said he expects to finish his career with the Suns. Pretty sure I did. Nash is very much about loyalty, and an all-round classy guy. If the Suns trade him, he might go, but I think that’s what it would take.
you might be right
I just re-watched the video and although he definitely says he’ll play out his contract, and talks about how much he likes playing for the Suns, he doesn’t say specifically that he’ll end his career there. He does say that he’ll play at least a couple of more years, and then see where he’s at physically. But doesn’t specify staying or going. I guess it’s open.
It's not open
He is gone, 100%
He doesn’t want to play on a losing team, but is classy enough not to demand a trade. He won’t resign with a shitty losing team.
Also, the Suns aren’t going to want to pay him. Nash is 100% gone after this year.
may I ask what this is based off of
or is this just what you and LeBron would do?
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
I inquire because you're stating this as a fact not an opinion.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
There is just no way that someone in Nash's position would stay
And that’s that
so opinion
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
Nash goes to Orlando
Dwight decides to stay just to spite Shaq and becomes the greatest Orlando Magic player in their storied history. Right in front of Rony Seikaly.
Jesus Shuttlesworth, SG Minnesota Timberwolves
Tom Gilbert Fan Club Treasurer
There wasn't any way someone in Grant Hill's position would stay last season, either.
So yeah, opinion.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
How do you know this?
Nash is 38. His family (read: his children) is now located in Phoenix and they just got done watching their parents go through a nasty divorce. I don’t think its crazy to think he finishes his career in Phoenix, especially considering his recent comments.
I don’t think it can be stressed enough that this is a 38 year old father, not some 20 some year old punk.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
I hate that guy
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
Tonight was more representative
Of Williams and Beasley. Williams played okay, and he’ll get better. But Beasley…oh, man. When he let Troy Murphy go stand under the basket, I lost it. Even when he scores well in a stretch, it doesn’t really help the team. Except for the LAC game, it’s mixed with errors and miscues and consistent non-blocking out (sorry, this part also was in the LAC game.
You can't...dust...for vomit.
I wish LAL would have given us that first rounder...
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 1:01 AM CST up reply actions
If it comes down to the deadline and we haven't done anything, we might accommodate you, but right now, bigger deals probably require those picks.
A small forward with some scoring pop is on the list of things we need, but a point guard is definitely priority one. If say Houston decides between now and the deadline that they will part with Lowry and Scola for Gasol (which most reports say they won’t), a first might be a factor in greasing the wheels of that deal. Even a deal for a lesser point guard like Sessions would require both the TPE and a first rounder if they’re not willing to take McRoberts, so there’s a list of options the Lakers have to go through before settling on Beasley.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Yeah, the basic read is that Beasley seems to be a next-shoe-to-drop sort of deal for the Lakers.
I like Sessions for you guys. He’s a great pick-and-roll PG, at an extremely acceptable contract. He played out a full season here despite being benched behind Jonny Flynn without complaining once, at least that we saw. Good locker room player, smart.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
As an aside
It seems to me that the Lakers won titles with Fisher. Fisher is obviously done, but wouldn’t the Lakers be better served by a point guard who is primarily a shooter, decent handler, low turnover type? I mean, Kobe is clearly the playmaker for them. A Luke Ridnour seems like the kind of guy they need. He can play with the ball in his hands, but doesn’t have to have it in order to help you.
Not that I’m suggesting it; unless it’s somehow part of a bigger deal, I wouldn’t trade Ridnour to the Lakers for anything they have.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 9:07 AM CST up reply actions
the problem with trading with the Lakers
is what they have that is of value is way too damn high and what they have that could be gotten sucks way too much.
I’d hope if we are dealing with them there is a bigger trade in the works
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Systems change?
The whole they-can-get-by-with-a-corner-shooter thing was perceived, across two franchises, as being a Phil Jackson triangle trait.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Perhaps, and I'm sure they would like to take some pressure of Kobe
but it’s pretty clear that for the next year or 2, Kobe isn’t giving it up. Ridnour isn’t exactly a stand around corner shooter; he can play with the ball, run PnR,etc. I mean, he’s not a great player, but he’s a pretty good one. Clearly one of the Lakers’ problems is perimeter shooting (2nd worst 3P% in the league). The need someone who can make some shots. Seems to me that should be one of the qualities they are looking for in a much needed point guard.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
Craig Hodges, I choose you!
Naw…. Just saw his name on the list of Three Point Shot champions, and remembered those Bulls. He probably could still drill that today.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
en fuego!
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/20/sports/sports-people-pro-basketball-hodges-s-wife-arrested.html
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Mar 1, 2012 2:29 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Good grief.
Wealth and a measure of fame don’t make you happy: Lesson number whatever.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
We're not running the triangle anymore.
The days of having a glorified two guard as the point is more or less over. Brown’s system demands a real pick-and-roll guard, and really, Kobe’s handle and first step have deteriorated to the point where he can’t pound the ball and make plays off the dribble consistently anymore.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself. -- Sun Tzu
Yeah, that's what I meant by systems changing above.
The only exception I’d take to what you said here was the word “glorified.” ;-)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Not a big fan of the deal
While you can argue there good value in that deal (i.e. 2 second rounders gets us a first rounder)… The reality is that the mid to late first round pick would not be as talented as Beasley. And then we have supplied a rival with Beasley who can get fired up and put 35 up against us every time we play.
If you want to ship him, ship him out east (though I did think about Beasley for Wilson Chandler; but Karl would be the perfect coach for Beas and kill us again).
Do you realize he is an expiring and has a $8.2 Qualifying offer next year?
That’s without discussing his actual oncourt contributions.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
Bease is nice on the second unit, playing his game in moments when he gets hot...
…but with Love out I felt like Bease tried to assume more responsibility…never a good thing with him.
Clutterbust
Compare the Lakers with the Wolves:
Lakers core (Kobe, Andrew, Pau, Fish) have played together for years. Wolves squad tonight are both young and inexperienced, haven’t played together for even a season (D-Will, Rubio, Pek, Luke, Wes).
Pau tweeted around 10:00 pm last night that he saw the Clippers game and he was going to bed to rest up for the game tonight.
The Wolves, especially those from the LA area, were celebratory late after the game. Nothing wrong with that but the difference is a veteran like Pau’s professionalism.
Where there is a D-Williams, there is a way
You're claiming to know that the Wolves were out late partying after the Clippers win?
(Insert Emerson quote.)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
by feral on Mar 1, 2012 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's omniscient.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Partying too much?
Maybe the T-Wolves were lacking a strong veteran presence on the court.
I think the second half of the game showed that pretty well.
I don’t think the problem though is that T-Wolves were out last night. I think they’re a pretty professional hard working team and I think they take basketball seriously. At least the leaders on the team seem like true pros with the common sense to understand they have tough three game road trip.
I think the problem was that we couldn't hit shots, couldn't rebound, and the lakers took advantage
also Kobe played pretty darn well, as did Bynum/gasol
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure the players hate it
but I’m glad to have another game tonight. Move on. The less time spent on this one, the better.
Some nights you just get beat. Nothing was good about that one going into it; Lakers were rested, no Love, that’s obviously a tough matchup for them even in good circumstances. The result was fairly predictable.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
problem is everyone wants mores items for DWill and for AR
But there is no way to get both guys out there with Love and Pek holding down their spots.
It’s really one or the other, in terms of trying to get Will or AR minutes. Pretty clear we are going with Will
by TO12 on Mar 1, 2012 7:19 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
Actually, I preferred 'wants more items for DWill'
I agree with your typo
On this team DWill should get 10 minutes a game at 3
how is that possibly the wrong take?
he can shoot three pointers, which is something characteristic of a 3…..he’s probably the most reliable non-starter right now for three’s.
unless a trade is made for a better wing imo Williams and Webster are the two best options you got
if Adleman can live with MWP getting easy layups cause Ridnour can’t guard anyone over 6’2 I’m sure he can live with the letting Rudy Gay get his 24 cause he’s blowing by Williams
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Ok, you like Will at the 3, whatever, it's been beaten to death, and in my opinion is wrong anyways
But, the post talks about getting AR minutes too, I’m saying even if AR is productive, there is simply no room for him, especially since we have a hard time finding enough for Will as it is.
so you think
a guy who can give you some three point shooting and scoring on the wing should never ever play any minutes at the 3?
I’m not saying (well I think this should happen, but in this specific argument I’m not saying) that he should start and play 36 mpg all at the three. I’m saying when Love is playing well Williams is really only getting 10-15 mpg. Why not just take 10-15 minutes at the 3 away from Wes that way you almost always have Williams in the +25 mpg catergory where he always seems to produce.
Beasley and Martell can split the other 36 minutes at the 3, but giving 10 or so to Williams will probably only help the team
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
a guy who CAN give you some three point shooting and scoring on the wing
Yes, Williams can sometimes hit three-point shots. But he is no where close to being a good three-point shooter.
Too hot to handle, too cold to hold
They're called the Ghostbusters and they're in control
by littleboxes on Mar 1, 2012 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
this sentence, if 100 percent accurate assesment of Williams, is still better than what we've been getting from our 3's consistently
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
10 minutes at the 3
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Have you considered the very real possibility that he sucks as a 3? Considering the wing players already on the roster, this might really be saying something about Williams’ prospects at that position. He’s a ginormous loper. The fact that they’re not willing to give him even 10 minutes, with Wes f’ing Johnson on the roster, might be something of a tell about his magical pony prospects at the 3.
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If you can't stastically track it it doesn't exist
do i have that right?
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
I feel like if a normal poster said this to someone they would get banned
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
I have been told “if you can’t stastically track something it doesn’t exist” probably 30 times, most of which are by you and i have never once responded with anything close to “bite me”
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
There is no point in arguing anything with you
You will just type what you want to type regardless of what anyone says to you. Even if you do manage to reference something someone actually wrote, it is then molded into a cartoonish either-or/black-white stand in. When people point this out, you just move on to the next big take/trade idea. I’m out.
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so what's the
“correct way to argue?”
just give into my opinion’s even though there is no proof that you are right? just because SnP, Madison Dan, Eric in Madison, vj110, Simitar, Airete, TimAllen all say it’s so that means I am obliged to give in? (I’m not trying to call all of you out btw….just making a point)
Is that the only way to not be labled a bad poster? I don’t agree with your opinion and there are no stats to prove me wrong.
If stats come up over the course of time that prove me wrong I will gladley relinquish my opinion. I’ve done it plenty of times.
I also don’t believe I have misquoted you here. You can deny it if you really want to make me go back and find the examples of you using the term “if you can’t track it stastically it doesn’t exist” but it’s happened plenty. Probably when you have been making a fair point as you often do.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
I don't give two shits if you disagree with me
You obviously do and it affects me about as much as two gay people I don’t know getting married in a state I’ll never travel to.
Do. Not. Care.
What I do care about is trying to argue/discuss something when I may as well be doing it with a wall.
by Stop-n-Pop on Mar 1, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so what's the correct way to argue?
A) I acknolwedge your opinion
B) I don’t even really disagree with the notion of trading Williams, I just don’t want to trade him for “average producing wings”
C) I give you reasons why I disagree. I may not have anything new to say, but in almost every single game thread you do you mention something like (not a direct quote) “it shouldn’t be an more obvious that we need to trade Williams for a wing” which to an extent I agree with and I also disagree with some of it
If anything on this specific topic I’d say I’m much more open minded about my position than you are of yours. From what I can gather you pretty much think there is no chance Williams will be a three. I on the otherhand think there is a fair chance Williams can’t play 3, but I would A) just like to see him get out on the court in general and B) would like to see it before I believe it (for a decent stretch of run to get some trends going)
I might very well be wrong about this, I think the single most damming thing about my opinion to date has been the relatively bad three point shooting until recently as Williams will have a tough time being a starting 4 let alone a starting 3 if he can’t shoot threes
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
I'll just repeat what I wrote above
Even if you do manage to reference something someone actually wrote, it is then molded into a cartoonish either-or/black-white stand in. When people point this out, you just move on to the next big take/trade idea. I’m out.
I don't see how what you are doing right now
is any different than what you are claiming I do
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
The correct way to post is to say stuff that's interesting.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
by feral on Mar 1, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Dammit!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
I know, it's a high bar to clear.
Still, the equivalent of endlessly repeated long contested jumpers by the same player who doesn’t seem able to change his game in response to the results…. Not so interesting. Eventually frustrating.
(I don’t think VoodooMagic’s ill-intentioned, though. “Trolling” goes a bit far.)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
I often call myself that
runningwithsisscors is a good friend of mine and he calls me the Beasley of CH.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Change your avatar to some Skittles.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
So here's my queston then
like I said in response to SnP. In probably 65% of his game-wraps he writes something to the effect of “It should be obvious we need to trade Williams for any good wing”
I don’t completely agree with that statement. Do I always just let it slide? Mainly that’s what happens and why I bring Williams up as much as I do cause I so often see other people wanting to trade him and I don’t nessecarily agree that we have to do it and certainly that we have to do it this deadline.
It seems like most everyone freely agrees or disagrees with a take, this is one take that just ends up coming up a lot because
A) Williams really doesn’t have a true position. he either needs to develop a post game or needs to be able to guard the perimeter to definitively be a 4 or 3
B) He is our most tradeable asset
C) A lot of ya’ll are beyond bored with patience (which is understandable)
so it’s something that comes up all the time. I just happen to be one of the stronger supports (if nothing else, the loudest) in the camp of don’t trade him unless it’s too good to pass up
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
He's a really exciting project
The point is more whether we have time to invest in a project any more. Love’s third year opt out is already hanging over everything. Can Derrick Williams be a high level NBA small forward? Would you bet possibly the next decade of the franchise on that? That’s the question, here.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
Malastre with the fair point
(these threads get so long I want to make sure you know who I am saying has the fair point)
is it not a fair point though that while you might be right….I still am not crazy about trading him for JJ Reddick? (However I am crazy about trying to acqurire Reddick in a different deal)
Eric Gordon, Nic Batum….fine. I like Williams but if those pipe dreams where to come to fruition that’s something I can roll with
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Well,
I would say that DWill has greater value than a straight up trade for JJ Redick, certainly. But you have to be open to trading him simply because he has value and isn’t an ideal fit. Quibbling about his value is kinda pointless if you ask me though – things are really only worth what you can get for them. And if you want to flip a great potential player with no defined position for a starting caliber 2 or 3, then it’s a tough market out there. Everyone wants those players.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
Which ultimately is why I prefer to not deal him
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
tut tut, split infinitive
but seriously, I think that’s fair enough. Really the choice is between taking a loss on a DWill trade and hoping the player we get steps up or waiting for DWill to get in an offseason work and go from there.
Thank goodness we have such a competent front office to make this incredibly difficult decision. (%. So much %)
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
and dude, that's the biggest problem
If I could trust Kahn to make the right choice I might be more interested in the trade.
Currently the only thing we can count on Kahn to do is to make the option that is smacking you in the face…which, outside of a few people on CH, consensus was Williams at 2.
Also, not sure we can get anyone that is all that much of an upgrade over a healthy Webster….. (i might be willing to eat crow on that take)
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Split Infinitives are perfectly legitimate grammar lots of the time.
“To not go” and “not to go” differ in gracefulness, but the idea that split infinitives are inherently wrong is dubious.
Supposedly there’s a mid-19th century grammar treatise that got everyone avoiding split infinitives like the plague, based on an analogy to Latin – where you can’t split infinitives, ‘cause they’re one word. That was just a sort of English Public School fetish. There are lots of cases where it’s better to split the thing in English:
to carefully break the eggs (simple)
carefully to break the eggs (awkward)
to break the eggs carefully (now we’re separating our adverb from our verbs in the name of graceful writing? Why’s that better?)
Taking a little Latin a long while back, I was struck that ironically that language does a lot of stuff like splitting infinitives. There are lots of “framing” uses of words in a given case, where you maybe put two words in the objective around the world that modifies them. They’d have loved to be able to split their infinitives, I bet.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
In Linguistics as an undergrad
I learned that most “rules” like that never enjoyed widespread application beyond academia. Same with ending a clause with a preposition—it’s the way people have used English all along.
There are certain rules that obviously facilitate communication, but some are just arbitrary and ornamental. The “split infinitive” one is among those, it seems to me.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
One more secret handshake for the academics.
So many gatekeepers in the world, so few gates really worth guarding.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Hence the "seriously"
It is an absolutely ridiculous rule. As you say, it’s probably based on the Latin. Having the attributive within the construction of the infinitive seems in no way inherently wrong.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
Really? That's what you have to say?
I should flag that shit just on principle.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
You do deserve it :)
But at least you realize it, so I’ll let it go…
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
Never let it be said I'm not fair in recognising how stupid some things can sound!
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
To fairly acknowledge one's faults is virtuous.
Fairly to acknowledge one’s faults…. To acknowledge fairly one’s faults…. Bah!
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
I believe the Victorians
would have preferred “to acknowledge with fairness one’s faults.”
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
Adding a prepositional phrase
where an adverb will do. Yum!
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Value is relative
If your car doesn’t have an ignition switch, that cheap piece is worth more than your $1000 stereo. Think of the Wolves as a car with three wheels instead of one that just needs a tuneup.
A complicating problem is,
the league’s got a glut of PF “wheels” and not so many SG “ignition switches” right now.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
The only good games Derrick Williams has are when he gets consistent minutes at the 4.
A position currently occupied on our team by the best 4 on the planet.
I don’t know how you can’t see that this isn’t good for us and Derrick.
The Magic traded Chris Webber once, I’m sure they didn’t want to part with his talent – but you get something back, too.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
what is missed
when people complain about repeated takes is that they only focus on the things they don’t like that I say
I have said 100 times if you can get a comparable wing talent for Williams you should look into it.
If we get a Penny Hardway for him I would be a happy camper
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Comparable wing talent
or comparable potential based on your view of Williams’ ceiling?
Comparable in the sense of
young/good/upside to uncover
doesn’t have to currently be an All-Star and doesn’t have to have all-world potential. But someone that is under 25/26 (so we can actually build something with this piece we are acquiring) and is currently productive (cause Williamsis currently productive) and has a little left to grow (cause we don’t know how good Williams could be if traded)
the pipe dream trades of Gordon/Batum are both good in my opinion. I think there is a chance we ultimately loose out, but if my nightmare were to come true we still have a killer core of players to build a team around.
Kevin Martin does nothing for me, why would Love sign another deal if the 3rd best player is 33 and on the decline? (as Martin would be 33 by then and already might be on the decline)
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
When people agree
there is often little point in replying.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
I agree.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
It's not a matter of Williams.
I’m pretty sure if we had a quality starting 5 without him we’d be happy to put him off-limits for sixth man duty to see how good he could get. We are really in a bind. We don’t have many assets left and need a starting caliber wing or two now. The clock is ticking. Kevin Love is only here for so long and without him we aren’t in the Western conference playoff picture. If we can get an above average consistent wing player for something other than Williams we’d be thrilled to do so. I’m not certain we have the assets to do this.
Ridnour is worth keeping, but won’t bring back a starting quality wing. Same for Barea. They are both good enough to be desirable, but not good enough to get teams to give up starters. Beasley and Johnson don’t appear to be enough to get a productive player back. Webster has a few thousand minutes showing he’s a below average wing player when healthy. A step up for us, but not exactly what we need. Pekovic might be able to be swapped for a quality wing, but opens up another hole in the roster.
We can play Williams/Love at the 4/5, but I’m not certain that’s better then Love/Pekovic. Williams may eventually be able to be a 3, but he’s not there yet. The little evidence we have suggests he might be a special player someday at the four, but not at the three. Williams could prove us all wrong, but I just can’t get too psyched about it until it starts to happen.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Mar 1, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't access the trade machine
but Portland really needs a PG, what can we offer them to make Ridnour for Matthews work? Lately they’ve been starting Batum and Wallace at the 2/3 and since they have Crawford’s as 6th man they may be open to making this swap….
6,135,160 > 1.25 * $3,680,000 = 4,600,000
That said I doubt it goes down because we’re competing for the same playoff spot and it helps us more than it helps them. Finally Matthews is still getting about 26mpg which is fairly significant.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
Just my take.
I think the problem with Ridnour and Barea is that they are good, but not good enough for the teams without a PG. The Lakers, Portland, and until Linsanity the Knicks all needed a PG of the future. While Ridnour or Barea might be an upgrade their abilities are pretty well know and they are below average for starters. The position is so deep right now that no one wants to upgrade to be a less of a positional disadvantage. They are looking for a way to get an above average guy.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
the neat thing about average (median)
is that there are always 15 teams above average and 15 below unless you let some people tie.
I think that as the trade deadline approaches more teams will be willing to accept an upgrade rather than going all the way to good. The question is are either Ridnour or Barea quite good enough to entice a team, and is Kahn good enough to get a decent return for us.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
65% is an odd number
to pull completely out of your ass, especially in a thread that is discussing your tendency to construct counter arguments out of straw. Here’s a project for you, find 3 game wraps where SnP argues that Williams should be traded for a wing. Yes, he has often argues that the Wolves are a wing away from yummy goodness, and that waiting around for one to drop from the sky is folly when there are games to be won now. I agree with those takes. But instances where he states that Williams should be traded for a wing are likely rare. The Williams argument follows logically from the need for a wing, but it is a separate argument. In looking back at recent game wraps, I don’t see SnP calling for Williams to be dealt, but that’s how you internalize the discussion, and that is the windmill you tilt against. And this gets to the point of what SnP is saying about your argument style. And if it’s not, then it’s what I’m saying.
by dropstep on Mar 1, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
65 is an odd number and not based in reality
I use a lot of hyperbole, this is true. Not one of my better qualities.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
You should probably address his real point
which is that SnP does not make the Trade Williams argument in game wraps very often.
by LoveTo on Mar 1, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
suspended at least
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
You troll with the whole innocent "who me" schtick an awful lot.
Disagreeing is fine. Conversing is fine. Pretending to converse in order to get responses that you then pervert or ignore while moving into fallacy mode is why you’ve begun to get the ire of some frequent posters.
When called on it you appear to double down acting as if you have no idea why anyone would be frustrated. You then attempt to turn the tables on the actual innocent party calling out their behavior which you have provoked. If this isn’t enough you insist on having the person you have largely ignored and frustrated give you some sort of corrective action plan on how to properly behave.
I’m no expert. I basically try to help in two ways. I provide easily obtainable factual information such as salaries and CBA info. I occasionally try (and likely fail) to be funny. I understand most of the rest of what I post is likely emotionally charge non-sense or the musings of an idiot. I ask questions when I’m hoping to learn something. This board has a lot of knowledge and I’ve learned quite a bit. I don’t mind well intentioned ignorance. I don’t mind emotionally charged posts that a person can later admit were non-sense. I’m not found of trolling.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Mar 1, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Not to pick on Voodoo too much
But you are right. Sorry Voodoo, you just post the same things over and over and over without responding logically to much of the criticism that arises. Just chill a little bit.
this seems to be a logical assessment
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
except for the chill out part I agree
I only have issues when I am called out as a poster.
My opinions sucking is one thing and the amount of them is one thing, but in all honesty I’m not trying to annoy people….I actually am joking more times than not
This isn't trolling, I'm just not very good at arguing.
I would rather write well-reasoned and rational
posts getting across points exactly along the lines of what Airete did.
I’d rather read “bite me”.
by dropstep on Mar 1, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I missed the joke here...
my reading comprehension sucks
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure there was a joke there
was making the point that while I would prefer to be (or think of myself as) the patient, thoughtful and gentle contributor, I’m certainly not offended by (and often heartily endorse) the abrupt, asshole reply to frustrating posts.
I'm not sure exactly what it is, but Voodoo seems to have a special flare getting folks riled up.
I think it is the combination of sometimes extreme obtuseness mixed with high volume. Not a dumb guy either… which seems to just make it more annoying. If he was aggressive or ignorant he would be easy to just write of and ignore, but he is always able to keep things going by being “just confused enough” to encourage further debate. It is almost an art form.
by vjl110 on Mar 1, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Intersting take
And probably pretty accurate too
He has taught me something -
scroll down to see who wrote a post before reading the entire thing.
Very good practice to do. But people can’t use it against me because I never post more than two sentences!
That post is three sentences long.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
this post
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Unpossible!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
The volume is killing me.
Voodoo, please, please try to limit your posts. You’ll get much more constructive interaction and folks will take you way more seriously if you just posted a dozen times (!) per day, rather than what seems like every other entry on boards after board. I really value your voice and I actually do think you’ve been mislabeled a bit in the course of this debate, but the sheer volume of stuff you post is honestly kind of tough.
An idea: make one FanPost per week for yourself, label it “Voodoo’s Trade Ideas” and put all of your “Who says no?” scenarios in one place. It’s frustrating for so many trade scenarios to crop up in threads that are devoted to other, less speculative topics.
Again, like your voice and hope you stick around. Sorry if this comes across as douchey… Not aiming for that at all.
I don't back down
if you prove me I’m wrong I will end the argument, the issue is especially with Williams, he’s 20 and is 36 games into his career….i’m not wrong yet but neither are you. so it comes up a lot.
I used to be as opposed to advance stats as anyone but now I use them all the time and am actually a fairly strong supporter of their use. I’m pretty open to being wrong and changing my mind…..however I will argue a subjective topic to death
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
the you is not you TheH
the overall crowd of people I generally debate with
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
It is not that you have an opinion.
It is the fact that it is 2:28 in MN and this is your 56th post of the day.
by TheH on Mar 1, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't generally get involved in things like this but you know man, "I don't back down" isn't always the greatest attribute
It’s only a short step between having strong convictions and the will to debate them at length to just being obstructionist. Personally, you don’t bother me in the slightest – the fact that this is an internet site where you can have an intelligent and civil discussion ever is to me a source of great pleasure and constant wonder – but clearly the way you are going about things is causing some disruption. I honestly don’t think it’s your intention, but… it is what is happening and there’s no need for it, you know?
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
by Malastare on Mar 1, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
make one FanPost per week for yourself, label it "Voodoo’s Trade Ideas" and put all of your "Who says no?" scenarios in one place. It’s frustrating for so many trade scenarios to crop up in threads that are devoted to other, less speculative topics.
Really VDM this is a great idea. It would keep things from going off tangent and would not get people riled up about your ideas
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
It's Michael Beasley, posting.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
this is also a good assessment
I still don’t think VDM is trolling. But then maybe we all have different ideas about what trolling actually is.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Whatever you think I honestly am not trolling
I may have been trying to jab SnP a little bit because I like him (I think he takes his basketball takes a bit too seriously sometimes, but I like him)
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
I think he takes his basketball takes a bit too seriously sometimes
As opposed to, I dunno, a guy who every other thread has to say the same thing over and over, no matter how many times people say “we get it”?
You can’t see the forest for the trees right now, Voodoo.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
why have all of these arguments been degenerating into insults lately
I just don’t get it
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
It's because you're a jerk!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
February takes a lot out of us.
Longest month of the year, in disguise.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
by feral on Mar 1, 2012 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
truth
although this one hasn’t been bad as the last few years
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
Too many late night games
If we stick together, we won’t this 3 games in 3 nights West-coast swing tear us apart.
never
http://www.youtube.com/embed/_VU9DjQpvMQ
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Mar 1, 2012 4:26 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Why don't we play Love at the 3?
He hits threes better than anyone on the team. He can also hit some mid-rangers. He can dribble and pass as good or better than D-Will. He is probably smaller than D-Will. Why not?
BTW… this is not a serious argument.
by vjl110 on Mar 1, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think the two should play together
however that looks. let’s do it.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
For the record...
I would rather see D-Will at the 3 than Wes… but I don’t think he is a three long-term, and believe Adelman probably has a good reason for not giving him time there.
even though I do think he could be the long-term answer
that’s not really my point is it?
My point is the guy needs minutes and is one of our more productive players (even in this loss where everyone looked like ass, Williams still looked alright) I don’t see how getting him that extra 10 minutes or so could possibly hurt the squad.
hell if he continues to produce like he has when given 25+ mpg we might actually have a real desirable asset on our hands as opposed to hoping someone likes the potential.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
At least by NOT playing him at SF,
maybe other teams will think there is still a chance he can play there. Making him MORE desirable in trade.
if other teams think that shouldn't we reconsider our opinion?
i guess this depends on what team were are talking about
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Other teams don't watch him in practice.
They aren’t privy to what our coaching staff is.
No way...
Adelman doesn’t play him there and Adelman is a great coach. Therefore, he CAN’T play there:)
(This 25+ minutes thing is the Martell Webster "reverse causality correlation" effect.)
Coaches play people more minutes when they’re doing well, partly.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Not everyone can sit for a full quarter
and come in and produce right away.
The leash with Williams often has seemed to be “i’m going to put you in there at the end of the first or beginning of the second and if you don’t produce right away you will probably play less than 15 minutes tonight”
How someone is supposed to shoot well consistently after sitting for a full quarter and knowing if they miss their first three that might be end game for them is beyond me
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
i'm pretty sure...
…it’s called “being an NBA player.”
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Mar 1, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
20 year old rookie?
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
i stand behind what i wrote.
we are a team that could very well be in the playoff hunt by the end of the season. a #2 pick should be ready to come off the bench and produce, and if he’s not, he should be ready to ride the pine. by in large, he hasn’t been ready this season, so his minutes have been sparse. this team has too much potential to use valuable game time to help get a guy’s self-esteem up.
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
actually it's pretty similar
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide02.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html
outside of 4 more rp36 the numbers are pretty eerily close. 15 pp36, 115-124 ws/48
williams is shooting better three pointers and playing 8 mpg less.
Klove’s PER Is 18 though and Williams is just 15
This isn't trolling, I'm just not very good at arguing.
how does this stastical comparison
of Love and Williams get not play?
This isn't trolling, I'm just not very good at arguing.
Going back in time,
fans were arguing that Love should get more PT, not because coming off the bench was ruining his production, but because he was playing behind heaping mounds of compost such as Ryan Hollins. If anything, those arguing for him getting more playing time were arguing against people who assumed his effectiveness would go down with increased usage. I refuse to believe you were on the Love train back in the day, and probably bitched like hell when Mayo was dealt for him. I doubt you were arguing for more minutes from Love despite his good advanced stats. Right now, I’m pretty sure that Williams’ numbers do not factor in your call for more playing time. It’s all about the fact that you see a banana sandwich where I see a young PF with potential but a limited game stuck behind an all star. That’s the play.
this is probably the singlest most wrong take of all-time
Kevin Love has been one of my favorite players in the NBA since the day he was drafted.
I still maintain he’s not best suited to be the no.1 scorer on a title team
This is about as cool of stereotyping of a poster as it gets man.
You can make fun of my player takes all you want but Evan Turner is perhaps the worst player I really like and he is pretty solid.
I pimped Paul George before 2010, Harden in 2009, the only thing I didn’t like about the Love draft in 2008 was the fact that we were supposedly building around Al and needed guard play (and still do) I never loved OJ Mayo (however now that there is a possibility that we could get him for something relatively inexpensive I really like the idea of acquiring him)
This isn't trolling, I'm just not very good at arguing.
Because the rebounding is a HUGE difference.
Love and Williams have similar TS%, FG% points per 36 and TOV% as rookie 20 year olds, but Love had a TRB% of 21.0 compared to Williams12.4. That’s an insane difference!
The reason you play Love more minutes is because he’s rebounding at a elite level at that age and not hurting you with his scoring. Williams on the other hand is rebounding so so for the NBA and not hurting you with his scoring. Love progressed nicely with his offensive game. I hope Williams does too. If they follow a similar course Williams might someday be a 20+ ppg scorer averaging about 8 boards. Love will be matching or out producing that scoring with 4-6 more boards per game. Unless Williams becomes a defensive monster (all defensive team type player) too it’s a big gap. Williams might become a good defensive player, but doesn’t have freaky foot speed or the go go gadget arms that most elite defenders have. He might end up as good or better than Love on defense, but it’s no sure thing. Love has become rookie contract multiple all-star good. Williams is scoring reasonably for a 20 year old rookie.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Mar 1, 2012 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm also not suggesting
that Williams will be better than Love.
I think he has potential to be a better scorer, that doesn’t mean he will
This isn't trolling, I'm just not very good at arguing.
If he's not ready because he's a rookie
Then he shouldn’t be playing. I want to win. This isn’t a development season now, and he’ll have time to develop in the future
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Whom would this argument not apply to?
It’s elastic. Portland fans used it about Martell. Minnesota fans did about Randy Foye. Rambis made it about Darko, really, in a larger sense.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
He doesn't need minutes at the 3 right now
Maybe, MAYBE after working on it for the summer, but dude, you aren’t there at practive, you aren’t there talking with the coaching staff, you aren’t a future HOF coach. Adelman knows better…
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and yet Wes Johnson is still starting.
I’m not saying Williams should play the 3, but the argument that because Adelman says so is weak.
Wes J is starting because he can play defense (or at least better than our other options)
He takes the big defensive wing assignment every night. That’s his job.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
insert obligatory He guarded Melo comment here
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
Williams guarded Kobe last night
made him miss.
;)
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Huh. Didn't see it.... When was that.
Was that for the two minutes at the end of the first half, when Tolliver and Pekovic were in with him? I don’t really see any other spots in the game when he was going to pull that matchup…. Maybe there was some funky switching going on?
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
it was for one jumper haha
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
He litereally got switched onto Kobe in transition who effectively shot an open 3 because Williams was so far back, but it bricked
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
by zebano on Mar 1, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
that's funny
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
HIS POINT STILL i forget the rest
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
gosh you guys need to take a joke
lighten up a little. I saw Williams was techinically on Kobe for a miss shot and I jive you a little lol.
I really laughed hard at the zabano comment cause of the interchange:
Williams guarded Kobe last night
made him miss.
;)
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome…..and Sean Penn sucks…..hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
by VoodooMagic on Mar 1, 2012 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Huh. Didn’t see it…. When was that.
Popcorn Machine gameflow.
Was that for the two minutes at the end of the first half, when Tolliver and Pekovic were in with him? I don’t really see any other spots in the game when he was going to pull that matchup…. Maybe there was some funky switching going on?
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It’s still on our list, though.
by feral on Mar 1, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
it was for one jumper haha
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome…..and Sean Penn sucks…..hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
by VoodooMagic on Mar 1, 2012 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
He litereally got switched onto Kobe in transition who effectively shot an open 3 because Williams was so far back, but it bricked
that’s good stuff.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
I don't think we're the ones that need to lighten up, Voodoo.
You’ve clearly been angling to drop a giant “I told you so!” since the start of the year and/or the start of “DWill doesn’t have a spot here, we gotta flip him.”
And I was making a joke, anyway.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
I will be very respectful if Williams does end up being a sweet 3
CH will be united under our core under 23 trio of Love/Rubio/Williams…..what else will there be to argue about?
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
there's always plenty of options
like trading Pek for a rim protector
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
Pek only doesn't protect the rim
In order to keep the game fair. It can’t be right if he dominates both ends.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
true
Hmm how about why do hotdogs come in packages of 10 but hot dog buns come in packages of 8? I bet TMiss has a really good take on this one.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
I'm a sucker for movies like Bulletproof Monk
I would watch almost anything featuring Chow Yun Fat, Jet Li, Jackie Chan etc no matter how many immortal Nazis there were in it.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
You'll find something.
Maybe Evan Turner will become a 45% three-point shooter after being to the Bucks for peanuts and you’ll spontaneously combust and haunt all of us in the afterlife, posting comments and talking about how God was patting you on the back for being so, so right.
I can’t tell the future though.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Or you're just a hater
I have big opinions but I’m also down to earth about it all. I trust my basketball eye, sometimes I’m wrong but most of the time i’m in the right ballpark
I don’t think Turner will hit 45%….33ish not out of the question though….It’s not like I think he’s going to be ripping three pointers, but a smart player like that? He’ll find away to make it less of a weakness
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
If people hoped for redemption and not vindication,
boy the world would be a lot less tedious.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
look dude
you tried to rip me once saying I am waiting to rub my Williams take in your face
I honestly don’t plan on doing that if I am right
and then you try and rip in another way. Don’t really care at the end of the day, but I’m also not going to play ball either
This isn't trolling, I'm just not very good at arguing.
"He’ll find away to make it less of a weakness"
He hasn’t so far. Other than hitting 11 of 25 his 2nd year of college, he’s never shown an ability to hit from deep. And the farther NBA line is killing him.
He shot 32% as a rookie, and he’s attempting them at a slightly higher clip this year – to the tune of 24%.
Some things just don;t ever happen, no matter how smart a player is.
Might as well move him to the 2, it would create so many mismatches
move Ridnour/Barea to the 3, quickness advantage
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
82games.com DOES statistically track these things
http://www.82games.com/1112/11MIN9.HTM
Williams has played 23% of the available minutes at the 4, 15% of them at the 3. In the course of half a season, 15% is a lot of minutes, and the data is pretty definitive.
At the 4, Williams is a net +38, with a PER of 15 and a win% of 63
At the 3, Williams is a net -18, with a PER of 10 and a win% of 40
Not sure what else there is to say about it.
by Oceanary on Mar 1, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Those numbers are pretty close . . .
cosmically speaking . . .
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
posted too quickly
I was just gonna say that’s a good point.
And that in that frame of reference
My stat’s are pretty much on par with LeBron’s, so I feel good about that.
But those stats seem to place Williams at SF
when he is on the floor alongside Tolliver, while he is sometimes a 3 and sometimes a 4 with Beasley as the other forward. I’m not sure I trust any of those numbers.
wow respect
you are a poster that is firmly in the Williams is a 4 camp I believe (?) yet you still give some creedence to the gameflow stats being off a little.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
My point was
that it’s probably even worse for him at the 3 than the 82 games data suggests.
But that's me just going off my gut,
when I usually like to have data on my side.
I like the turnaround on this reply
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
This is pretty basic 82games stuff.
Their positional data on Beasley from Miami and then here was a question mark, and Anthony Tolliver’s stuff last year was fairly screwed up.
A(dmittedly we’re like a test case for how to fool their data collection. When your team can plausibly send out four Power Forwards and Wayne Tolliver, it must be hard to figure out what “position” people are playing.)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
hmmmm
this seems legit
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
Given Adelman's zone fetish
the obvious answer is to play DWill at the 3 for some minutes and play a zone during that time. You could even play Love/AR/Dwill all together then.
Bang Bang Choo Choo Train
I don't think Adelman actually likes the zone.
I believe he’s doing what he can with what he has, but I could be wrong.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Mar 1, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
"doing what he can with what he has"
is pretty much the answer to every “Why does Adelman…?” question posted on here.
Pretty much
I find the ripping on Adelman a bit strange to be honest. He’s coaxed .500 ball out of a mismatched set of misfiring parts. Planning for the games must be like building a car out of duct tape, barbed wire, cake mixture and clown noses.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
by Malastare on Mar 1, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
It is really quite peculiar isn't it?
It’s like that by winning the pot has been stirred, and now the CH community as a whole is restless.
Either way, I’m just happy to watch a game with equal chance of it being a win or a loss. Maybe once we beef up the roster I’ll be tossing remotes at the screen, but for now, RA has ton terrific work with our patchy lineup.
He's exceeding all my expectations. As did Rambis in another manner.
Usually I don’t second guess the FO or coach of a team I follow too much. I trust they know far more than I do and are making informed decisions. I’m interested in what they are doing, but assume they aren’t screwing things up with poor decision making. Rambis and Kahn blew that to holy hell. Rambis is the first coach in any sport I’ve watched that I wanted to give advice to. As is I actually though it might help. Kahn shouldn’t be extended in my opinion. I’ll leave it at that.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
by Airete on Mar 1, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Wow that went in a way I didn't intend.
I guess I’m still giving Adelman the benefit of the doubt. I don’t mind giving him a lot of rope as I feel he’s already earned it.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
This made me think
Maybe we just got too comfortable with questioning our coaches, because they sucked.
A more ‘normal’ fanbase may be more trusting.
It could be that
I mean, really, Rambis’ mistakes were so ridiculous that it was hard even to take him seriously. Benching Kevin Love, running the offense through Darko, attempting to use a triangle offense that he clearly didn’t understand and didn’t have the personnel for..
On the other, Rick has done some weird things. He has a weird team. He’s making them win. He’s making them defend. He’s not in love with one basketball concept and ignoring all the evidence of reality. He’s done incredibly well, in my opinion.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
Here's to that
Rick has done some weird things. He has a weird team. He’s making them win.
Success with a 2 pg set? Who else would have even tried?
He’s getting more out of these guys than I think any other coach canidate would have.
It's the antithesis of Rambis,
right down to the detail of going with two PGs. That was apparently an article of faith with Kurt Rambis: Thou Shalt Not Go Small in the Backcourt.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
It is a universal truth across all basketball
that after a loss, the coach’s rotations get panned as bizarre or inept by a chunk of the fan base.
This is an extension of the principle that whoever won, or lost, the last game seems invicible, or destined never to win again, the next morning.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
This is true
also why I find people who use championships as a factor in comparing all time greats to be very misguided
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think so
I think every fan base gets crabby at their coach.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions
I think we've got a bunch of bandwagon guys that don't really know too much about basketball posting these days.
Fans. What are you gonna do.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
The team is fun enough to have a bandwagon though
How awesome is that? Our bandwagon for the last six years has been abandoned in a parking lot in the rough end of Detroit, being used as a public convenience by ranting tramps.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
by Malastare on Mar 1, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Hey, that was me!
And eff you if you don’t like my 3 bean salad.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
A load of sick poured over roadkill
Does not a three bean salad make. I always have to tell ranting tramps that, but do they ever listen?
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
Exactly
I think we’ve got a bunch of bandwagon guys that don’t really know too much about basketball posting these days.Fans. What are you gonna do.
Where were they during the Glory Days last year? What dost they know of our 44 Point Loss to Orlando or our 23 point Loss to the Clippers? And after the game we would post well into the night with fierce Lincoln/Douglas level debates of the best way to land potential saviors like Wilson Chandler or Josh Childress, or if Kevin Love really deserved to play more than 18 minutes a game, or if Chuck D really was going to move to Singapore. Oh, these poor children with their wasted lives, how dare they join a sports message board to share in the glory of actually having a competent team, HOW DARE THEY!
Chazz Reinhold: Mom?? MOM!! What is she doing back there? I never know what she's doing.
by Son of Gerald Green on Mar 1, 2012 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
(Wow, that early spate of huge losses last year was dispiriting.)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
That came out wrong, apologies.
I just know that I’ve been called “google” or “googole” or “goog” way too many times this season.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 2, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
You forgot the vasoline and rectal probes
Honestly though, I think Airete has the right take, when he thinks he can get away with it (or when we’re just being killed in man-to-man) he goes zone because it masks the deficiencies of our help defense and our undersized SGs.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
by zebano on Mar 1, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Jokes aside, I completely agree with this take
By the way, good call on the sig line. Now we know you’re for real.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
Speaking of zones
Does anyone know of any research into if or how effective changing defenses (or even personnel) is at slowing down an offense? My thought is that If you do something along the lines of 4 minutes man-to-man followed by 2 of zone and back you might just throw your opponents off by forcing them to adjust. Of course this means your team needs to spend more time practicing defense and you might get similar results by telling Wes & Webster your only job is to slow down Kobe, go full speed and we’ll swap you out every 3 minutes, on offense stand in the corner and shoot open 3s or pass.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
Yup
We’ve been able to rip the coach over most of the franchises history, and most of the time it was warranted. Maybe people just don’t know how to deal with having an actual basketball mind on the sidelines…
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
It boggles the mind
I’m no longer shouting “he only scores 8 points a game!” or “Don’t bench our best player for no reason!” or “Joe Smith? Really? REALLY!” instead of making the insightful basketball commentary (and swearing) that is my stock in trade.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
I'd be fine with giving AR more minutes
But the thought seems to be Love/Pek/Williams holding down the 4/5 spots with the occassional Darko sighting in certain match-ups.
Funny thing about the Clippers/Lakers stretch. Look at our shooting percentages both nights (Combine them) and you’re short of left around our average. Combine our point differential it’s probably pretty accurate how well we match-up against these teams on an every night basis.
My long-term concern is the Wolves schedule will get kind of nasty in the 2nd half of the schedule. Even these next two road games- you’d have to be thrilled with a split. I’m off the mindset the Wolves end up between (30-33) wins for these reasons. Nothing to be depressed about. But the playoffs will probably require between (34-36) wins. I’m just not seeing the wins on the schedule.
"Vote Ailuridae for Wolves GM"
Playoffs have always been a long shot.
I sometimes entertain the idea because in a 66 game season it seems there would be a better chance for outlier games making an impact in the final standings. Over 82 more rested games I think we all know we aren’t there yet. I guess that’s why March Madness and a single elimination tourney hold so much entertainment. The best teams aren’t going to triumph the way they usually will over a 7 game series.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
I stopped watching in the third
so I could get up for my 6AM ball game but man was it ugly. I have some general thoughts
1. Pek needs to see double teams coming (or quadruple teams in one case) and pass out of it.
2. Webster is starting to play well enough that I would give him all of Johnson’s minutes; Wes can get some time in the D League.
3. Rubio knows which players have the ability to finish and he’s specifically been forcing a lot of passes to Pek lately which have resulted in some extra turnovers.
4. Pek had stone hands in the first half yesterday, very unlike him.
5. Defending really long/tall guys continues to be difficult for our team.
6. Rubio IMO is too content to just come up the court and give the ball to the other guard, I’d like to see him drive and dish just a little more often to keep defenses honest, plus if they lay off into the passing lanes he might just get some easy layups.
7. Rubio’s shot is pretty much broken when his feet aren’t set receiving the ball. He can work on that next summer.
8. Rubio’s defense picked up in the second quarter but in general he just seems to have dead legs, I think the long season and high minutes per game is getting to him.
9. DWill’s 3pt stroked seems to be recovering and he goes hard to the hoop but you gotta know Fisher is going to try and get that charge. He also needs to box out and rebound a lot better.
10. Beas… lots of long 2s but did have a couple of drives and got a few FTs… He’s much less of a train going full speed when driving compared to DWill, but if he could just manufacture some contact… his defense and boxing out were terrible. Barnes in particular thrived on the offensive glass against him.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
by zebano on Mar 1, 2012 7:59 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed
Think Ricky’s shot selection is really poor. There are a lot of guys who have “good shots” who are actually guys who stick with what they are good at. Ricky shoots well at those set shots, and really bad at the other ones. Stick to those set shots Ricky.
And quit forcing the ball. Hate to say but a lot of those passes are very predictable. Needs to mix it up a little more.
Yeah
He does seem to force it sometime, and hasn’t made many of those tough, fading to his left shots off the window. Either he gets better at that shot, stops taking it, or it drives us nuts his whole career.
He’s probably still trying to find his offensive groove in this league. He seems to get his shot blocked and has no idea it’s coming quite a bit when he’s driving. Rubio has been good spotting up for 3’s, but otherwise I’m not sure what he can do.
I’m really looking forward to seeing him play against Nash tonight. Also, since there have been so many Rondo comparisons, that should be another fun one to watch.
Agree
But add a couple of shot taken with Gasol and Bynum on him and 01 in the shot clock is unfair.
There are a couple of guys in this team who doesn’t like to force shoots when time rushes and send the ball to Rubio with the responsability.
Life of a point guard. Damn centers instead.
by antrodax on Mar 1, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree
I think you and Zebano have made a pretty fair analysis of the Rubio. I remember early in the season when he had a FG % of over 50. Everyone knew it was coming down.
Since then he’s struggled more than I thought with his shooting ability.
not to sound like a broken record but
when Ricky drives I think he’s usually looking to pass. The problem is that, other than Love, guys don’t move to the basket and present a target. It’s way more often Rubio finding Pek than Pek getting open. Much less anybody else on the team. You’d think that guys would realize that when Ricky drives they ought to be making themselves as available as possible. Sometimes it looks like he forces it because there’s no other option.
by dwb on Mar 1, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
seriously
you think “get open when ricky drives” or “if you cut to the hole, ricky will find you” would be lesson #1…not “stand around and watch the game.”
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
One play that the Wolves keep running drives me nuts.
The PG (usually Rubio) dumps the ball to Pek in the high post and then everyone runs to the paint. Then the PG runs all the way around the cluster of humanity and gets the ball back from Pek about six seconds later. What the hell is Pek going to do with the ball in the high post? There’s nobody to pass it to. It’s always wasted time on the shot clock.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
yeah those piss me off too
In Miller’s few stints you’ll see a backdoor cut or two and he’ll often throw the pass, when Pek has the ball I often don’t even see a cut.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
Did you notice Pek took a shot last night?
Like an outside of the paint shot. It was the right decision and I hope he starts doing it more, but it certainly startled me.
yeah that one was shocking.
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
And Jim Peterson fell out of his chair
I think Pek obviously has the range since he’s such a good free throw shooter, but who knows if he’s comfortable shooting it in game situations.
I think that shot startled Pek.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
he's got some good touch
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
He took two actually
One turnaround jumper and one square up midrange jumper.
I’d like to say I absolutely hated those shots, but considering his proficiency at the FT line I’m guessing he’s got an okay stroke. I’m thinking they gave him the okay to take those so that they wouldn’t just be able to pack the paint. Just a guess though.
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
There is one even better
Pek takes the weak side rubio drives to the side, discharge the ball on Ridnour and crosses the zone setting up a screen to the rival center as Pek rushes to the strong side to receive.
You set a play to pass inside sending your best passer to set a screen to a mountain.
This play has caused more turnovers than points
because the Center (Pek, Love, etc.) often has a hard time getting the ball back to the PG.
Brad Miller runs that in his sleep.
It does seem like a bite of Adelman’s standard approach using the wrong player, doesn’t it? Darko’s passing eye from the high post would make some sense with it.
(Nothing can drive me as bonkers as seeing Bassy and Brewer run the Globetrotters weave up high to start possessions two years ago.)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Agree with EiM - game was set up to be very tough
But I gotta say – I am just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sick of losing to Kobe and the Lakers. They kick our a$$ four times a year, every year, and most of the time it doesn’t even seem close. Two stud 7 footers + a HOF wing vs. a team with undersized, defensively challenged bigs + no wing has been the recipe for a long time. And before that it was HOF wing + HOF center vs. team with no C and no wing.
Sigh.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2012 8:32 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Been too long
Really surprised we haven’t beaten them once or twice in the past few years.
Who says no (no Turner, promise)?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=84lrqwc
My guess is LAL
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Is it possible to concoct a trade that's negative for every party at the table?
VoodooMagic, emphasis on the “Magic.”
(Hollinger’s projection just had us gaining 5 wins – by adding Barbosa, DeRozan, and Matt Barnes. That’s where our wing situation is right now.)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
Not sure how it's a bad deal for us or TOR
Barbosa-shooter
Barnes-shooting defese
Derozan-upside 2 guard. if nothing else helps us balance our volume scoring to the 2 guard spot instead of having 3 3/4 combo players (4 if you count Love as a volume scorer) that all basically are derivitaives of each other
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
It's a bad deal for us because Barbosa and DeRozan aren't good.
DeRozan sucks at everything and Barbosa is shooting 32% from three so he really isn’t a good shooter.
Barbosa had a 6 year run
of + .375 3 point shooting.
regardless of whether this specific trade can go through I think he is available (hoopshype had an article) he might not be a bad target just in general
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Yes he had a six year but hasn't done it in three years so for whatever reason he isn't the shooter he once was.
by Magoo12218 on Mar 1, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Did he just forget how to shoot?
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Seems to me that its better to look at the past 3 years
than the previous 6.
Maybe he just really fit in well in Phoenix’s system. He wouldn;t be the first or last guy to shoot over his head playing for that team.
fair enough
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Thank Steve Nash
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Barbosa had a 6 year run of + .375 3 point shooting.
You forgot to add “ending in 08/09.” Barbosa is bad, but his badness is compounded by the fact that you want to shove Ridnour out the door, who is pretty much the good version of what Barboas is supposed to be. Do you think Barbosa is going to fair any better than Luke getting backed down by the likes of Kobe and VC?
JJ Barea has been better than Luke at not getting backed down
because he has at least one defensive trait that he can lean on, being his speed. also his strength and low center of gravity help.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Barbosa and DeRozan are terrible players:
According to PA100 both players cost the Raptors more than 3 points every 100 possessions (-3.2 and -3.4 respectively)… and both are considered offensive players. Whatever value you think you are getting with DeRozan can be duplicated by asking Wes to randomly chuck the ball at the rim a few more times per game. DD isn’t an upside 2-guard, he is an athletic mess, or maybe Wes without a conscience.
Barnes is fine, but we can probably get him for Beasley straight-up. Ridnour is the best player in our part of the deal.
Toronto gets “better”… but where exactly are they going with a core built around Pau and…. Luke? They will lose a ton of flexibility and really have no shot of turning the ship around before Pau is out the door or in decline.
I was almost on the DeRozan bandwagon after the first couple weeks.
His lines looked like a young guy starting to really get it.
Then he turned back into DeMarr DeRozan…
He's a guy I'd float a flier on
nothing more than that. I also wouldn’t stop with DD if we were to get him
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Anthony Randolph
Doesn’t play because he doesn’t have a true position. He’s too weak to play center and we have too many power forwards for him to get time there. I like him but his basketball IQ doesn’t seem to be incredibly high and that leads to him taking bad shots.
Get Brandon Rush to Minnesota
Counterpoint
He’s too weak to play starting center. As a backup C, he’d be great. How many teams have a backup center who could really take advantage of Randolph’s lack of strength? Heck, how many teams have a backup center who’s actually a center and not a power forward. If you’re going to trot him out there against Bynum like we did briefly the first time we played LA, yeah, he’s going to get crushed. But I think in most scenarios, he’d be fine.
And I’ll keep pointing it out as long as I have to, for all the bad shots he takes, he’s 3rd on the team in TS%. The bottom line, most relevant fact is that he’s efficient already. That he could improve with better shot selection is a bonus.
Completely irrelevant to the outcome of the game
But I hate watching Kobe get foul calls on fade-aways. Happened twice last night, and both cases made me want to turn of the game (wasn’t the most pleasurable to game to begin with.)
by vjl110 on Mar 1, 2012 9:30 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
He got a number of phantom calls
The one where Ridnour moved his arm towards Kobe as he faded and the breeze fouled him was the worst. The closest ref called nothing, yet the one who had the worst angle gave him the call.
It was very annoying.
by skelman on Mar 1, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't stand that stuff...
it is one thing when a guy attacks the rim and gets a phantom call (ala Wade)… I don’t like that, but I understand it. Giving a phantom call on a fuckin’ fade-away clearly meant to separate the player from the defense is disgusting.
by vjl110 on Mar 1, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Late whistles on those fade away fouls just reinforce all the prejudices out there about NBA refs.
600 N First Ave "like a Pirate's cove".
The..
late whistle is a big part of it too. That one in the Clip game where the refs clearly waiting until Blake’s shot rimmed out to whistle Love a bullshit foul had me pretty pissed as well.
I like that they have slowed up on calling fouls when the offensive player clearly searches for contact, but there is a long way to go before I am happy with the way games are reffed.
There needs to be a more objective system:
How many times do we see guys get called for a foul with their feet on the ground and hands straight up in the air?
Does anybody really think the refs would have swallowed their whistle if you swapped Kobe (or Love) for Barea on that play where Barnes smacked his elbow and sent the ball out of bounds?? Even if they didn’t see it, they would have blown the whistle assuming some malicious play forced the ball out.
Weird game to spark complaints about referees… we would’ve gotten our asses handed to us either way, but the Lakers always seem to bring it out in me.
by vjl110 on Mar 1, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Probably the best time to air those complaints, really..
Don’t have the clouded judgment about “the refs deciding the game.”
There were just some trash calls that made it all the more frustrating.
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 1, 2012 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
Right
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
True...
it feels less like sour grapes in this context. It is easier to get across the idea of, “hey assholes… your subjective and biased reffing makes the games tough to watch.”
by vjl110 on Mar 1, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was going to post about those calls too
The whistle just blows automatically, as if the ref thinks kobe is shooting, made a noise, must be foul. I hate kobe so so much.
Yep
We played terribly, etc. But the refs are why I turned the game off after the 3rd quarter. One of the best things about this year is that when the wolves are down in the second half, it’s not a given that they are going to lose. After MWP’s “block” on AR, D-Will’s “charge”, Barea’s “losing the ball out of bounds”, and about 4 consecutive ghost-call and-1’s, it was very clear that no comeback would be allowed, even if it were possible.
This post is kinda stupid....
If you want to hang your hat on “yesterday was a huge aberation”, you should choose a game that isn’t:
a) second of a back to back, on the road
b) without our best player
c) against LA, in LA, where the refs are going to make it an uphill battle regardless
etc etc…
What might even the most newbie fan expect to see from a young team? Inconsistancy. But instead of seeing it as the ups and downs of a young team it’s portrayed as "anything good is an aberaton and anything bad is regression to ‘being what you thought they were’. Kinda tiring.
so you're arguing that 20-25 shooting from williams and beasley is what we should EXPECT?
hmm.
a good night from Love, Rubio, Pek, an ok night from maybe Ridnour, Barea, occasionally Beas, yes…but the clippers game was MOST definitely an outlier.
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
Actually as a team against the Clips we shot
51.3% on 2s. 45.5% on 3s.
Not as much of an outlier as it seems.
and the PEK comments..
which I should have cited first.
Oh noes, PEK didn’t shoot 60%+ against one of the best frontlines in the NBA when he didn’t have Love and they could double him?
And in the past 5, he’s had two bad shooting games? (One in 10 minutes of action where I think he twisted an ankle)
Sure, williams won’t go 9/10 often. But, this team has proven it can win without williams going 9/10 (like the last time we beat the clips perhaps?).
If I were going to have a 1 line summary of this game, it would be “Turns out the wolves need Love”. Which is the truth. Not some 1-liner trying to prove how right I was the night before. But, different strokes for different folks. Some people like to play the wet blanket.
by bustaone on Mar 1, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think there is something important here
And that’s that Love helps enable Pek to score, especially by demanding covering on the 3pt line or drawing significant attention/double-teams of his own down low. When Pek’s the only threat in the paint, it becomes a simpler affair to shut down and that’s what the Lakers did—clearly anticipating quite a few times RR was getting ready to feed Pek.
I was hoping for a blowout yesterday. But that was expecting Love to be in and Kobe to be out. I’m not surprised that with the opposite being the case, we got opposite results.
by Dark_Aardvark on Mar 1, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Love helps enable Pek to score, especially by demanding covering on the 3pt line or drawing significant attention/double-teams of his own down low. When Pek’s the only threat in the paint, it becomes a simpler affair to shut down and that’s what the Lakers did
I think there is a lot of truth to this. Love and Pek make a great offensive, because you can’t handle Pek alone, and you can’t let a man sag off of Love. We need Love back…
considering all this
why the hell couldn’t big al and love play together again?
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
rambis?
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Mar 1, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Al wasn't as big as Pek
And Love didn’t have a 3 ball at the time.
Basically, Al and Love were the same player… we have been over this.
Now Love can be considered a ‘stretch 4’ in some situations, and Pek is a big bruising 5. Simple.
Love shot 82 threes at UCLA
and hit 29 for 35.4%. He was always a stretch 4, but the talent evaluators on the Wolves didn’t want him taking threes. So they decided he and Al were the same player. That doesn’t make it so.
Maybe they didn't like him taking 3's
But he still shot 2 a game in 09-10, and at only a 33% clip. Moreover, it took him a couple years to get comfortable with a mid-range jumper in the NBA.
When Love and Al played together they were the same player, at that time. Can’t blame everything on the coaching staff…
After winning the 3pt contest last weekend
Love said something along the lines of “this means I’ve come a long way from being told not to shoot threes in my rookie year.”
All I could hear when he was saying that was a chorus line singing
Kuurrrt…… Ram – Bis…. SUUCCCKKKKSS!!!!
/JAZZ HANDS
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
by Malastare on Mar 1, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep, and Wittman made thinly-veiled comments in the press about Love.
Something like “We’ve got guys on this team who try threes when they can’t lay the ball in.”
(The team must have known he could get there, though. Love and Brian Cardinal spent that whole season playing long-distance shooting games against each other during warm-ups. They’d go around the horn, shooting against each other.)
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
come on
missing ONE SHOT in the fourth quarter (before garbage time)???? how the hell is the clips game NOT an outlier? can we really expect that kind of performance from the two guys who won that game for the wolves (beas and dwill)?
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Mar 1, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
So what exactly is it that should be expected?
2 misses? 10? 30?
It happened so we know it is possible.
I’ll have to check, but I’m pretty sure this season has provided quite a few ‘and this will never happen again’ statements.
It's an outlier, its not likely to happen
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
and how many of those "never will happen again" moments...
…actually happened…you know…AGAIN? if, tonight, beas and dwill shoot 20-25 from the field (WITH NO MISSES IN THE FOURTH QUARTER), then i will say, “maybe that clippers game wasn’t an outlier.”
just because something happens once doesn’t mean we can realistically EXPECT it to happen again. hell, maybe martell should start shooting from 3/4 court because he swished a shot from there at the end of the first quarter yesterday. it happened, so it must happen again, AND consistently.
on the other hand, we have seen love SLAY on a consistent basis. we have seen ricky control the flow of the game (esp. the 4th quarters) on a fairly consistent basis. even pek’s recent run of stellar play was over a reasonably long span of time, effectively negating “outlier” status. darko’s one amazing game this year, on the other hand…
which is why, even though our wolves have won 4 out of their last 6, there have been disturbing trends as of late: love stinking up the joint, ricky not exercising the amount of control he NORMALLY does, etc.
i hope i’m making myself clear, here.
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Mar 1, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
You are.
YOU HATE THE WOLVES!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
duuuuuude
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Mar 1, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Ha!
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
My point was
Yes those isolated stats of Williams is an outlier, but when you look it as a team’s shooting, it’s all part of the equation. One guys goes 0-10, another 9-10. Basketball is such a streaky sport… if a team scores 12 points in one quarter you know they are scoring 35 in the next. It’s just the way it works out.
So in the grand scheme of things, you could definitely say DWill was due for a game like that, because he’s a better shooter than that.
And by this law, Wes should be due for a game where he shoots 34-36 and scores 123 points. It’s going to happen… just wait for it.
that's assuming that every player will average out to...
…basically average. so kobe is due for 10 or so seasons of absolute shit basketball, darko is due to absolutely tear it up for a few seasons, etc. while i know it was a tongue-in-cheek comment, if a player sucks for two straight seasons (wes), it doesn’t mean he is due to go off.
a random great game by a normally average-to-shitty player is only “part of the equation” in a very very very broad sense. if a player is shitting the bed on a consistent basis, he shouldn’t be getting burn. just because derek was a better shooter in college than he has been in the nba doesn’t mean that some sort of grand course correction happened in one game.
i’m not saying dwill is a bad player or will always be as bad as he has been thus far this season, but SERIOUSLY THE CLIPPERS GAME WAS A FREAKISH ANOMALY and that we shouldn’t grow to EXPECT performances like that from now on. that’s all i’m saying!
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
by davechisholm on Mar 1, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure who or what you are arguing against.
Nobody here said that the wolves will always make every shot in a quarter?
What I said was, ‘it is possible’ which is irrefutable. And then I asked you what I should realistically expect. I did not add ‘%’, which meant that I was curious what it is that I was supposed to expect. What I take from a 9/10 shooting performance is that there is serious underlying talent.
I think you somehow assumed I was saying something completely different.
i was going to post a mega snarky response, but instead...
OK.
here’s what you wrote at the top of this chain:
If you want to hang your hat on "yesterday was a huge aberation", etc.
which makes me think that you don’t actually think the clippers game was an outlier—the ‘hang your hat’ bit sort of has a mocking undertone towards the original post.
SO, the conversation had been about whether or not the clippers game was a huge aberration. that considered, i think i have been pretty fucking clear with the points i’m making.
re: what you should realistically expect— again, given the season thus far, you can safely count on a few things:
-love doing good to amazing
-ricky doing alright to amazing
-pek doing alright to amazing
-ridnour/barea/maybe beas doing ok to good
the first three things didn’t happen against the clips, and a weird-ass amazing game from beas/williams saved the game for the wolves.
if your whole point was “it happened, so we know it is possible,” well… i mean, it’s true, it’s irrefutable, totally obvious, and doesn’t really prove anything. i don’t know what to say.
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
I don't respond to people with potty mouths.
Bah, screw it.
I think (and since it’s me thinking I know I’m right %) that the clippers GAME was not an outlier.
I think that Derrick Williams’ (posessive .. bah) shooting performance was an aberation. But how much of one? Time will tell I think, his numbers aren’t yet outside of the small sample size yet.
FOR THE FURTHERMENT OF MY POINT!
(I have a personal ‘thing’ against formulating statistics to narrow down an individual performance to be something special.)
I HAVE DONE A SEARCH, (and it’s fucking clear ;-) ).
I was able to find many hundreds of games , since 1985, where a player shot 90%+ and scored more than 20 points. These things, in fact, are not highly uncommon. (here is my link, and I’m proud it worked for once http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=2012&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=fg_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=.890&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts)
Why were my questions relevant? Because all of this is supposed to be based on ‘expectations’ and I am unable to converse with someone about their expectations unless they make them clear.
He kinda has a point, though.
We’re also not going to have a team TS% of 0.439 every game. (For the season, we’re at about the league average of 0.522.) It was just a bad game on the road without our best player.
Agreed that there's a point to be made
Statistical analysis is awesome.
But I come here after the Clipper game, and the first thing I read is “THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!”
Jeebuz, I’d rather just enjoy it for a bit (and yes, yes, I can engage in/ignore whichever conversations I want, just like anyone is free to (dis)agree with/ignore this frustration).
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 1, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
we can stastically track that Williams 3 point shooting is on the up
1-2, 4-4, 2-4 last three games
and his FG% is also been solid
oh and he’s also played at least 20 mpgs…..
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
That's 3 games, Voodoo.
He’s playing well, and I think he’ll get more minutes if he keeps it up, but let’s not sign him up for next year’s 3-point competition just yet.
well right
i seem to remember it only took Pek about 5 games for us to anoint him untradeable though.
I don’t think 3 games is enough either to say he’s going to be a 40% career three point shooter, but he is continuing to build off of solid play. Maybe that ends tonight, maybe it continues idk
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Dude
Pek is loveable. That’s why he’s untradable. He makes people laugh, is comicly (cosmicly?) huge, and has fantastic tattoos.
But on the realistic side of things, Pek is at one of the two most unfillable positions in the entire league.
(But I do agree with you that williams is probably closer to a 40% 3pt shooter than a 30% 3pt shooter)
by bustaone on Mar 1, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think we should trade either of them
but if we were blown the doors down for Pek we’d have to consider it. Same with Williams.
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Yeah, I'd do that trade.
J-Christ for Pek is a no brainer. JC can perform miracles, man. Imagine him and Rubio on the floor together. Doubt we have the assets to get him, though.
Pek would crush Jebus.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Dude!
JC has been playing for centuries, man. Centuries. And he still has got game. I guess you are one of those guys that thinks his game is on the decline.
Man,
the Romans posted him up and crucified him. He’s a ghost of his former self.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
And the crazy bugger played three days later!
The ultimate teammate.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
my guess is JC probably had a decent outside shot
But he probably wouldn’t make it in the NBA – wouldn’t complain to refs enough. he’d be too busy turning other cheek on blown offensive foul calls
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Mar 1, 2012 2:48 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
i feel like his defense would be really bad
“turn the other cheek” bad, you know?
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
Heck of a hook shot, though.

The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
wow... even JC had the size advantage on JJ and Luke
This is my opinion and does not constitute an endorsement, opinion or official position of the U.S. Army.
by ronatcampzama on Mar 1, 2012 4:12 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
They took his combine numbers
in Hassan Whiteside’s flip-flop sandals, but the dude plays in them, so hey….
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
That's very funny
Kudos, CJ.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you.
I have to hit once in a while, don’t I?
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
This brings me back to the HOF Christmas Day thread.
You are all terrible people :).
by PDGirl on Mar 1, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone who disputes this accusation
Is a liar. Terrible people FTW.
T'Wolves 2012: Where Fabricating Injuries Constitutes Player Production
I was just bored and wanted to hear from my fellow Jews
Not my fault it got out of hand. Though maybe it is. I wish I could get a decent corned beef sandwich.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Man I could go for some corned beef hash right now
so good
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
I can't deny it.
I'm going to brag. I drive the Nikola Pekovic fanwagon.
by Cynical Jason on Mar 1, 2012 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
Nobody fucks with the Jebus
Shift happens, caps lock is on purpose.
Jesus Christ, power of flight
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
My "he" was bustaone
so I agree with you, I think. Both games were “outliers” in their own way. We should have fun with the Clippers game. If it leads to people arguing that Williams and Beasley are untradeable superstars (not saying this happened), then I’ll bust out the “THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN”.
Along those lines, Beasley is kind of funny. I was looking for a trend in his TS%, and it really isn’t there (except for recovering from a miserable start). He just pops up and has a great game once in a while, then goes back to below average levels for a while. He does just enough to make you think he ought to be able to do it more often.
Beasely
i hate it. its such a tease.
It’s like he wants us to know that we could have three 6 best players under 23 on our roster
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
Yeah beas is the ultimate tease
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Agree with both of you
Shouldn’t have let my irritation get the better of me.
Clips game was great fun and I really enjoyed it… Shouldn’t have let the ‘it will never happen again’ bother me but it did. Then the Lakers game, with no Love, and more of the same.
Dan’s right, these type of performances shouldn’t be used to entirely define a player (williams is certainly not untradable because of the positive).
Yep, take my post as "riffing" off of yours, and alluding to bustaone's.
Wasn’t implying an argument with you.
I only ever want the Wolves to draft 5th.
@BrettAhlgren
by BrettAhlgren on Mar 1, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
Did you guys know?
that Kobe wore a mask and that he had a concussion?
Just wondering.
B Easy > Joey Fatone
Tom Gilbert Fan Club Treasurer
by y2jayjk on Mar 1, 2012 10:55 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
yup...
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
So informative
I dig it. In the spirit of continued informativeness, can you perhaps link me to a site that shows how to turn my crappy “Follow me on twitter” signature into an awesome one like yours?
Just checking back...
did you see that Kobe wore a mask? And it stunk? K see you guys.
B Easy > Joey Fatone
Tom Gilbert Fan Club Treasurer
8 Kobe/Mask mentions
on Yahoo’s NBA home page.
I want Linsanity back.
B Easy > Joey Fatone
Tom Gilbert Fan Club Treasurer
Darko is an asshole.
Every game he does one thing that makes you scream “WHY DON’T YOU DO THAT ALL THE TIME?! YOU CAN!1 YOU CAN DO THAT ALL THE TIME YOU ASSHOLE!” Then he goes back to being Darko.
JPete:
The list of things he can do is long. The list of things he does isn’t.
by googoleeoottooooleeoottooooleeeatta on Mar 1, 2012 12:39 PM CST reply actions
Indeed
So would I if someone paid me millions to keep doing a job I didn’t like. To be honest I’d probably give it a little more effort, but who can say.
I can’t really fault Darko the person here. Now Darko the basketball player, I’m pretty sick of.
JPete is always on the money
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
yes
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
he's (Martell) really looking
like he’s getting more and more comfortable. Obviously defensively he’d be a huge step up from Luke. Plus it would allow Luke to work with the second unit, providing a little more direction than JJ, who seems like he’d be happy to concentrate on being pesky and scoring.
by dwb on Mar 1, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
I think the common thought on CH is he should be playing 3
but even if Adleman will never play Williams there, Beasley has been giving you some passable offense and not awful defense.
I think Web should be playing more period. I’d prefer it to be at the 2, but anyway to get him on the court is a win for us
James Harden, Paul George, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams are awesome.....and Sean Penn sucks.....hoping this cuts down the amount of posts I do.
for a team that's exactly .500
any win or loss by more than 10 points is probably an outlier! haha
http://www.davechisholmmusic.com
I don't know...
Webster seems a more natural two. Wes, for all his faults does provide some defensive punch at the three. Love and Pek, for all their offensive goodness, don’t really scare anyone defensively. The combination of Wes and Webster lends some much needed athleticism, and the ability to keep guys in front of them. This maybe means fewer drives to the basket that put pressure on Love and Pek, and that result in fouls way more often than blocked shots.
Is there a way to upload a picture from your desktop?
The only way I can do it, is from a clear web link.
Any ideas?
Rodman, believe me, nobody wants to see your..
…oh, never mind.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Trust me... I don't either :)
I always have trouble uploading pix that aren’t on a defined web link (i.e. a series of photos in a viewer).
Two Adelman thoughts of the day
While we are busy bashing Kahn for his inactivity, I personally hold out hope that Adelman and his posse will have a positive influence on any deal that goes down. To the best of my memory, there hasn’t been one player move since he got here. I have some faith that it reflects Adelman’s patience more so than Kahn’s (imagine if we hired Larry Brown).
Also, as we critique Adelman’s rotations, it occurred to me that Adelman doesn’t necessarily seem to make sense, because he coaches by feel more than advanced stats. I could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem like he notes who is good when via a statistical measure, but rather his gut feeling during the game. That’s not to say he doesn’t do that outside of the game or in player evaluations, but rather during the game (maybe he does, but it seems too random to me).
Both of these thoughts are hunches by me… I could be wrong.
Kahn churns in the summers, but has been relatively quiet in-season throughout his tenure here.
His moves while games were underway are more like:
Jason Hart for Alando Tucker. The earth moved.
Cardinal out for Darko Milicic. Marginal move.
Corey out for Anthony Randolph. Singular.
The last thing we want to do is take long twos. It's still on our list, though.
lol Don't even remember Jason Hart or Alando Tucker
Still going with the theory that Adelman has been sizing up the guys and the verdicts were submitted to Kahn at the break.
Probably right, but
I can’t think of any measure, statistical, feel, or otherwise, that would justify a starting spot for Wesley JaMarr Johnson.
Wow
When I saw a bazillion new comments I figured a trade must have gone through.
Sorry – TLDR all the bickering.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
You just made me look up TLDR
And made me feel old all at once.
Don't feel old - I am middle-aged with kids and perhaps than you
There are practically an infinite number of Internet and texting acronyms/shorthand words.
I stumbled upon TLDR and liked how compact and funny it was.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't know that one either
I don’t know most of this stuff. But it turns out that not only is there TLDR, but also TDLR, which also would fit.
3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws. 3s and Free Throws.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
i agree
+1
If I'm pissing you off its probably sarcasm
by CoffeeJanitor on Mar 1, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
I've given up the goal of reading everything on the Internet
in order to remain gainfully employed.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Mar 1, 2012 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So actual basketball talk
how do we get in on this?
JJ Reddick could be in play as the Warriors could have little interest in him (as he and Curry are a lot alike) and want some size. How do we get ourselves (and maybe another team) to make this happen?
This isn't trolling, I'm just not very good at arguing.



















